Open 239 - C9++

[Fishythefish]

Good point. Except I don't think he'd have been pushing Andrius like he was with a guilty on someone else.

I guess not, though with the high chances of millers and investigation immune scum for a cop, you might not want to act much on a guilty from N0. At any rate, if there's a breadcrumb I can't see it. JABOC does say he's got one particular suspicion that needs to withheld, which could be a cop guilty, but I can't work out from his posts who that would be.

[Fate]

I'm not voting drmy to lynch mafia, if you were reading my suspicions Ythill.

I'm not falling for the "oooooooooh im just a poooooooor VI dun lynch me" tactic again. Drmy's smarter than he looks and is prob-SK.

I doubt I'll get enough momentum for a Ythill wagon, maybe tomorrow with a few more flips...

[Ythan]

Fate please be nice.

Mafuyu (0):
Fate (1): Unsight
Ythill (0):
nhammen (0):
drmyshottyizsik (2): Fishythefish, Fate
Fishythefish (2): AGar, Ythill
Unsight (0):
AGar (1): Mafuyu

not voting (2):
nhammen
drmyshottyizsik

With 8 alive it's 5 to lynch. Deadline is midnight after the 27th.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Vote Fish

[Fishythefish]

Why the vote, drmy?

@Agar: what do you think of my analysis? You seem to think I'm mafia on PoE - could you explain why you rule out Unsight and shotty? ATM it feels like it's "because Ythill says so".

[drmyshottyizsik]

Fish I've thought you were scum for a long time

[Fishythefish]

So you say. But you've never, ever said why.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I have a little bit actually

[Ythill]

Fishy is @ L-2. No claiming or lynching until I'm done looking over the data. K?

I will probably have time to do all five isos tonight.

[Fishythefish]

@drmy: then humour me and repeat yourself. I have no idea why you think I'm scum.

Don't worry, I have no intention of claiming unless and until there are 5 people ready for my immediate lynch. I'm hopeful that won't happen.

drmy has never given a read on this game that wasn't convenient for scum at the time:

His vote on Mafuyu was an opportunistic and bad L-1 vote.
When he initially criticised his attackers, it was Fate he voted for. Let's be fair to him; that vote wasn't for the player with the most votes on them (ani had 2 at the time). But those votes were his scumbuddies. Fate was attacking him, and attacking NS, as well as arguing with Ythill at the time; a very plausible vote for drmy scum.
He voted for me as soon as my wagon got going, with no change of read expressed.
He then voted Andrius.
Today, he's voting for me; the only player with any votes apart from him. Earlier, when Fate and Ythill were arguing heatedly, his scumlist was those two and me, and there's no apparent reason for the change.

Go through the thread asking yourself the following questions:
1. If I were drmy, and I was scum with Andrius and NS, where would I most like my vote to be to achieve a mislynch?
2. Where is drmy's vote?
The only time the answers to these questions differ is when he voted Andrius at the end of the day, when a mislynch had become pretty much impossible.

I can understand why people might have a VI read on drmy, or find him hard to read. But it's hard to stomach that his reads lead him to do

exactly

what scum would want to do in his situation, if they thought they could get away with it.

[Ythill]

Fishy, if you're town, please check out that game link I posted: recent shotty scum-meta.

[Fishythefish]

I'll do that.

[Fishythefish]

Looking at that scum game;

It was a newbie game. Turned out to be the vanilla variant.

drmy replaced in N1. D2 lasted 6 days, and in that time drmy played as follows:
His first post was to cast an L-1 vote, with no explanation. However, he then gives a fairly indepth case post. It doesn't seem recycled, and it's got more effort in it than is apparent in the sum of all his posts in this game. Shortly after that, there was a hammer. His responses to questions in that game generally made sense, and there was certainly a serious effort to look town.

So. His one vote (not paying any attention to the special case of lylo voting) was entirely opportunistic. But the general style of his posts was completely different. Different enough that I wanted some more shotty meta.

Searching for him, we turn up following finished games, which I have skimmed looking at him, votecounts and sometimes other things. I don't have the time or energy to read all of these in any depth, certainly tonight and probably ever.
Newbie 955. D3 scum replacement. Indepth reads. Only vote is a quick lynch.
Open 218. Town replacement. One liners; no content; lynched day 2 (only in game briefly).
Newbie 983. Town. Content, reads, cases. From first impressions, he seems to be on lots of popular wagons, and OMGUS quite a lot. This game I will read in more detail to look more at how he voted.
Newbie 984. Scum replacement. Content, reads, cases.
I'd be interested to see any completed games I've missed, shotty.

So. As far as his posting style goes, his meta in this game fits none of his 3 scum games, and one of his two town games - the other one he replaced in, was only for a few days and never did anything. This means the lack of content and explanations is not a scumtell from him.

I need to think harder about all that, but my first thoughts are that that meta makes drmy look better. This isn't drmy's scum or town playstyle, which makes me think that for whatever reason drmy genuinely hasn't got into the game. That can come from either alignment, but a bit more likely from VT than GF or SK. The only time it's happened before for drmy was as replacement town, where he was only in the game 3 days. It may be worth noting that drmy is currently in a lot of games. Andrius and NS's play yesterday fits well with drmy scum for me, as do his own voting patterns - but that may be undermined somewhat if he shows the same tendencies in his significant town game, Newbie 983.

At any rate, his meta influences my read on him significantly.

unvote

while I think things through.

[Ythill]

Fishy

Parked on shotty for most of D1, switched to Andrius as the NS wagon was starting and stayed on him until the end of the day. His early game is focused entirely on shotty, defense, and setup speculation. That behavior attracted pressure, which he responded to by widening his net to include AGar, Andrius, and NS. He called both suspects but focused on Andrius even though NS was the more popular lynch. He seemed very concerned about Mafuyu accusing him of distancing with NS. Near the end of the day, he mentioned his plans to defend the masons D2 but I don't know how likley of a slip this is considering the target-rich environment. Fishy's D2 play is far stronger than D1. Habitual null? Or just him playing even tighter when faced with more pressure?

Unsight

Joined the Maf wagon, unvoted when all the cool kids were doing it, and then parked on AGar for the rest of the day. His initial reasoning for those actions was okay, and he asked a few good questions. When NS started coming under fire, Unsight showed interest in a Fishy lynch but didn't shift his vote. He attacked both NS and Andrius, comparing them and finding an Andrius lynch preferable while NS was the more popular wagon, but he didn't vote either of them. Unsight has only 14 posts, counting today.

Fate

RV on me, then Maf. First serious vote on NS, swapped to shotty mid-day, then back to NS until the goon was lynched. In light of the Andrius flip, his iso#1 (wherein he is surprised to see Andrius in the game) feels like a scum tactic. He buddied to me and AGar in the early game. He spread his net as the conversation grew thick, and started looking like town. Believed Maf's softclaim a little too easily. Linking NS to other players, and especially linking a NS-Andrius team to shotty, still looks bad to me. He even speculated that shotty was the GF of the group. But then he got on NS and pushed like hell, which looks too aggresive for a bus. In iso#39, Fate reiterated the NS-Andrius team with a comment about them both going V/LA and he seems very convinced but then argues NS over Andrius and starts backing off of his read when the Andrius wagon built up quickly. Interesting contradiction: in iso#26 he adamantly tells me that wagon speed cannot be an indicator of towniness and cites his experience to back up that PoV; and yet, in iso#42-44, he reverses a solid scumread on Andrius for no other reason than wagon speed and, within a few posts, is demanding that people unvote Andrius. His play today has been full of contradictions. The OMGUS felt real at first, which was a point in his favor, but it dropped off quickly as soon as I moved my vote to Fishy, which strikes me as unatural.

shotty

Voted Mafuyu, Fate, Fishy, and Andrius. His Maf vote still looks solid to me, as do his first few defenses. He got frustrated with Fate and lost his cool under pressure. In hindsight, the early claim is either a town mistake or a very calculating scum play that I feel is out of character from shotty-scum. I don't like how comfortable he was being called a VI, a perjoritive should sting the ego more. He slipped in well-reasoned attacks but also made a bunch of silly mistakes, which suggests that VI is a playstyle choice. In iso#23, he asked for a VC thirty minutes after placing RB Andrius @ L-1; it

did

make sense from town in context but I can see a nervous buddy jumping the gun in that scenario too. His D2 play is lazy and lacks curiosity.

AGar

Voted me, NS, Maf, shotty, NS again, then Andrius. AGar is as obv-town as they come. He was curious, cautiously collaborating, and actively scumhunting. His views shifted cleanly with the evidence, which he contributed a fair share to. No way AGar is mafia. He

could

be the SK. Much of his play (wagoning and pooh-poohing extra-kill speculation, for example) makes sense from a SK's PoV but it also makes sense coming from AGar-town so long as he's been honest about his playstyle. It may be worth a look at his meta but a have a feeling that would be a waste of time. He is the least scummy of the pool by far.

Bonus Information

Thank you, Justa, for keeping your promise of helping us win the game.

Remember where I said shotty requested a VC thirty minutes after placing Andrius @ L-1? Justa follwed it immediately with an unofficial VC that I missed because I was reading the mod in iso. And it's a good one.

Just a Bit Off-Center

(2):

Andrius

,

Nobody Special

Andrius

(5):

Just a Bit Off-Center

, Fishythefish, AGar,

nhammen

, drmyshottyizsik

Nobody Special

(3): Fate,

Ythill

,

Mafuyu

AGar (1): Unsight

Click back and compare with my other VC stuff. Andrius was @ L-1, two confirmed town jumped from Andrius to NS, who dropped the self-hammer. He was not trying to freeze the VC. He was protecting the RB. This mildly suggests that Fishy, AGar, and shotty are not mafia because scum-NS might have hung around long enough for one of his buddies to bus if one of them was on the conveniently crumbling Andrius wagon.

Overall conclusions in a little while...

[Fishythefish]

Fishy

Parked on shotty for most of D1, switched to Andrius as the NS wagon was starting and stayed on him until the end of the day. His early game is focused entirely on shotty, defense, and setup speculation. That behavior attracted pressure, which he responded to by widening his net to include AGar, Andrius, and NS. He called both suspects but focused on Andrius even though NS was the more popular lynch. He seemed very concerned about Mafuyu accusing him of distancing with NS. Near the end of the day, he mentioned his plans to defend the masons D2 but I don't know how likley of a slip this is considering the target-rich environment. Fishy's D2 play is far stronger than D1. Habitual null? Or just him playing even tighter when faced with more pressure?

On NS distancing - I hate being linked with someone I think is scum, and saw (and see) no good reason for it. I mentioned defending the masons because I

was

defending the masons at the time, which was in twilight, in the course of trying to persuade a cop to pick more sensible targets. I only said I was planning to defend them if necessary - ie. they were alive and being attacked - because they would remain a terrible lynch. I couldn't be bothered to explain the full logic behind that at the time, so I was leaving it until today. Also, it would be quite odd for me to let slip that I was deviously planning to leave two town players alive in order to vehemently

not

lynch them. What do you mean by "habitual null"?

[Ythill]

(Heh. Ninja fish. The problem with your offer to defend the masons D2 is that town do not know they are going to be alive on D2. But, like I said, it was a target-rich environment. So maybe it's nothing. By "habitual null" I mean if town meta shows you are lazy D1 but more interested D2, it would clear up some of my problems with your play.)

Findings

• Unsight is one of the two likliest to be mafia. He is the most likley SK. All told, he looks like the best lynch.
  
• Fate: he still looks likle mafia to me. Very unlikley to be the SK.
  
• Fishy: I'm really liking his play so far today and D1 didn't look quite as bad the second time through. There's still a considerable amount of evidence against him but I don't think it's as strong as some others. He does not look like the SK to me.
  
• Shotty: That VC request is making me very paranoid but, like I said, it did make sense in context. Also, I didn't say this when I posted it but the feeling I got from that scum-meta I posted is that he spent some effort making friends in that game, whereas here he's been more obstenant. He's prob-town.
  
• AGar: He is absolutely not mafia, nor is he the likliest SK. He should not be lynched today.

UNVOTE: Fishy
VOTE: Unsight

I think it's imperative that our masons make an informed decision and I will not be involved in any lynches before they are ready.

@AGar:

If you and I bloc our votes, we can control the game in that we can make it impossible for anyone to be lynched unless either we or the masons approve. Interested?

@Mod:

You missed Mafuyu's unvote.

[Mafuyu]

Hm. Ythill noticed Unsight.

Mafuyu's waiting on nham to show back up before voting (unless he doesn't come back for an absurd amount of time, obviously), but has and does agree to an Unsight lynch. It might only be D2, but Unsight's coasted the entire game.

So, um, nham:

fos Unsight.
OH WHERE OH WHERE HAS MAF'S MASON GUY GONE?

[AGar]

I can definitely get myself behind an Unsight lynch.

I like the idea of blocking votes, Ythill. Especially with Nham MIA atm, the town's losing the edge that the masons provide.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Unsight

I need to meta FTF, because I need to see how this equates to his town play. I know I've played the weak D1, strong follow up card plenty before as a VT in order to dodge a NK and give more input to the town, so with his recent play, I can definitely see town motivation. I can also see scum motivation however, as it's come at the price of pressure in his direction.

FTF - The analysis was ok. I like it better than what I've seen from other players. Definitely been playing stronger since my last post. And for why I ruled out Unsight or drmy - I didn't. I opened up on Unsight today, found little support, so rather than pushing a dead wagon at the time, I decided to look elsewhere. I still kept pushing at Unsight, as can be seen in 472. Drmy is playing to a town meta apparently (dear god) and also, I said he is more likely to be SK than scum. But his play doesn't fit a scum playbook at all. It's a square peg with a round hole, and it just doesn't add up to me.

[Fate]

THE SCUM IS YTHILL AND DRMY THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS DOING.

HOLD UP HOLD UP.

[Fate]

Fate

RV on me, then Maf. First serious vote on NS, swapped to shotty mid-day, then back to NS until the goon was lynched. In light of the Andrius flip, his iso#1 (wherein he is surprised to see Andrius in the game) feels like a scum tactic. He buddied to me and AGar in the early game. He spread his net as the conversation grew thick, and started looking like town. Believed Maf's softclaim a little too easily. Linking NS to other players, and especially linking a NS-Andrius team to shotty, still looks bad to me. He even speculated that shotty was the GF of the group. But then he got on NS and pushed like hell, which looks too aggresive for a bus. In iso#39, Fate reiterated the NS-Andrius team with a comment about them both going V/LA and he seems very convinced but then argues NS over Andrius and starts backing off of his read when the Andrius wagon built up quickly. Interesting contradiction: in iso#26 he adamantly tells me that wagon speed cannot be an indicator of towniness and cites his experience to back up that PoV; and yet, in iso#42-44, he reverses a solid scumread on Andrius for no other reason than wagon speed and, within a few posts, is demanding that people unvote Andrius. His play today has been full of contradictions. The OMGUS felt real at first, which was a point in his favor, but it dropped off quickly as soon as I moved my vote to Fishy, which strikes me as unatural.

shotty

Voted Mafuyu, Fate, Fishy, and Andrius. His Maf vote still looks solid to me, as do his first few defenses. He got frustrated with Fate and lost his cool under pressure. In hindsight, the early claim is either a town mistake or a very calculating scum play that I feel is out of character from shotty-scum. I don't like how comfortable he was being called a VI, a perjoritive should sting the ego more. He slipped in well-reasoned attacks but also made a bunch of silly mistakes, which suggests that VI is a playstyle choice. In iso#23, he asked for a VC thirty minutes after placing RB Andrius @ L-1; it

did

make sense from town in context but I can see a nervous buddy jumping the gun in that scenario too. His D2 play is lazy and lacks curiosity.

He misreps my play terrible by pointing out contradictions that don't exist. For someone as supposedly a THOROUGH reader as you Ythill you seem to take my "reversing Andrius read" waaaaay out of context. Drmy's wagon built up quickly AS HE WAS BEING SCUMMY, aka not a town indicator. Andrius' wagon built up quickly AS HE WASN'T EVEN HERE. Definitely more of a town tell imo. I might even begin to say that drmy looks more like mafia for putting him at L-1 then asking for a vote count in order to sure he is not voted again (Aka drmy knew that was a L-1 vote) too quickly, because that wagon was too fast for scum NOT to be on it.

He's META-DEFENDING the other scum for fucks sake. He doesn't want drmy lynched today BECAUSE of earlier said reasons. Its interesting because he also attempts to distance himself from drmy (first game I've seen scum on diff teams distance, but if you think about its the best play) to avoid appearing "anti-drmy lynch" by giving off a few reasons to suspect drmy.

ON DRMY:

[Fate]

Drmy's meta indicates that he IS CAPABLE of using reasoning and thought out cases, and overall TRYING.

The thing with VI playstyle is that people are more easily to write it off. "Oh that's just drmy being silly/stupid/whatever"

[BTW YTHAN THAT

WAS

ME BEING NICE SO TAKE YOUR GIRL SHORTS OFF]

whereas when YTHILL or someone like him posts we are more likely to say "hmmm now that's all nice and thought out but WHY did he write that? What scum motivations could he have?"

The thing missing is we SHOULD be doing that with DRMY's play "hmmm but what if he was SCUM why WOULD he post stupid things and pretend to be completely ignorant of the game" BECAUSE PEOPLE WONT FRICKIN SUSPECT HIM THEN.

1+1=2 VOTE DRMY/YTHILL FOR PREZ.

[Fishythefish]

On my meta: like many people, I certainly have periods of laziness and/or tunnelling as town. I don't know if these are generally on D1 more than other days - it's not a trend I'm aware of.

@Fate: I don't think drmy's playstyle here is a concious decision, because it doesn't fit with his scum meta at all. I also don't think it's a playstyle that helps people coast by. I agree that looking for scum motivations from him is a good idea, and I think his votes have good motives for scum.

So. Reasons I still think drmy is scum:
1) The behaviour of Andrius and NS around his wagon (consistent with Fate or Agar scum also, but there are other reasons to think they aren't scum)
2) The way all his votes are what scum would do (undermined a little because he's pretty wagonny in his major town game)
Neither of these fits particularly well with SK.

I agree that Unsight is a good candidate for SK. He's also my second candidate for scum, though then 1) grates a bit.

So. I don't really mind much between Unsight and drmy lynches at this stage, but I'm not ready for either yet. I'd like to hear more from Unsight about his suspicions, or anything else. I'd also like shotty to start trying harder; from your other games, scum and town, you are capable of much more than this.

@Fate: could you summarise why you think Ythill is scum, please?

[drmyshottyizsik]

YAY!!! Time for me to change my mind again on who be the scumzzzzzz.
Ythil.... Oh ythil.
[disclaimer in which I am not proud of]I haven't totally been comitted to this game or been reading it totally, or had even read all of it before this post.[/diwianpo]

Ok Ythil you look scummy from your first post on.

And how am I player #9? I was totally the last one to /in in the Queue.

There are only 9 players. I'm assuming the others are on-deck replacements.

Mafuyu absolutely would have NKed me if she was scum. NS and ani might have too. Who's afraid of Reck?

So right off the bat you think that Maf and NS aren't scum, because they hate you and would have killed you? Ya, ummmmmmm not very pro-town man. You can't think someone obv town simply because of that, the only way you would know is if you were scum.

Vote: Ythill

for not knowing who he's playing with.

Heh. At least you know I'm not scum with Unsight/AGar. What's funny is that I saw you posting and still was stupid.

Anyway... did an iso scan of Reck's most recent games. Fate has been in a lot of them, ani in a few. Didn't see anyone else from this player list. NS is familliar with Reck from GD, but he'd probably kill me over Reck.

VOTE: animorpherv1

I just hate your logic here, I don't think a person is more likely to NK some one N-0 just because they have played games with them. Also why the vote there?

NS is prob-town.

@NS:

Think real hard. There's only one reasonable answer.

YOU CAN'T KNOW THIS WITH OUT BEING SCUM!!!![/my impression of the screaming death clan, which I wish I were in] You really can't know this when not even everyone had posted in the thread yet.

Mafuyu's initial, unspoken idea of "Everyone available, provide a reasonable guess as to the number of T's in-game, preferably not accurate to what role you might have" is really freaking stupid.

QFT.

@Fate:

Mafuyu is prob-town.

Again you know this how?

Maybe it's because I'm suffering set-up fatigue, but I just cannot glean how you "know" we're dealing with 3 mafia.

Don't look at me, nham's the one that said it...

RECK's death also means we have at least 1 D. This means that there must be at least 3 scum.

You'll note that my comment was directed at him. If you look at the setup, you'll see that he was correct, though my assumption that by "scum" he meant "mafia" was not.

If both anti-town parties know each other, they can at the very least temporarily truce. This would be beneficial for Ythill-SK in the terms that Ythill-SK cannot be betrayed easily for two reasons...

Is this what I think it is? Heh. Maybe Reck

did

protect me last night. I can see why he would.

UNVOTE: NS
VOTE: Mafuyu

Ok so here you deside to unvote and vote Maf, who just a few posts back you called prob town, you have almost no case on this. NS was pretty OBV! scum, so why did you unvote? I mean you are the one who set him up to be lynched. Did you have second thoughts about bussing your partner?

If both anti-town parties know each other, they can at the very least temporarily truce. This would be beneficial for Ythill-SK in the terms that Ythill-SK cannot be betrayed easily for two reasons: the first being that there would have to be a cooperative Vig for an NK to take place on Ythill, the second being that scum would not be able to out Ythill-SK without losing at least one player, in this hypothetical instance NS.

This is the third (and most important) thing that bothered me about #58, and it was the one I mentioned vaguely and that she denied. It looks very much like Maf-scum offering to make a deal with Ythill-SK. Look at how she's selling the idea.

@Andrius:

Why aren't you voting for Mafuyu yet?

Now you are working hard to derail the train on your partner, nice. I really hate when people ask questions like yours.

I'm just gonna go out and say that I really dislike the whole "I think I would've been the NK for X reason."

Well, then people should post more so I have something else to talk about.

Mafuyu will also note that as part of the Scum-SK D1 interaction theory, it's ideal for scum to remove the SK before they proceed to gain influence on the town, whilst gaining their own sort of influence by lynching off an anti-town faction. The fact that Ythill had interpreted Mafuyu's theory post as communication in and of itself would make the Mafuyu wagon push interesting

She says while voting me. Also, I feel like singing... The Everchanging Story... nah-nah-nah, nah-nah-nah, nah-nah-nah. (Atrayu!)

I agree with Agar here, but also why don't you create something to talk about? Scum tend to float by threw what other people say. ALSO!!! I LOVE ATREYU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, but I hate how you didn't know they were a band FoS[/off topic]

Oh... I didn't even know there was a band by that name. Our generation gap is showing.

Anyway... I did some isos, and this game looks pretty easy.

AGar, Andrius, Fate, and NS are all prob-town. Mafuyu and nham are scum, though my read on the former is much stronger. The others (ani, Fishy, Unsight, and drmy) have posted too little for me to get a read.

Mod:

Have those prods gone out?

Ok so you contredict yourself man, is NS Obv Scum or Prob Town???? Oh wait your partner was scum like you.

But whatever. Explain why you changed your story.

I wish you would explain yours

Hey! That was my attempt at humor! Because your accusation could be viewed to include both an insult and a compliment. See, funny! I think the joke fell flat...

unvote

I'm not ready to lynch and therefore not ready for a claim. We have four people who need to post content. Anyone up for a lurker wagon?

Ok really whats up with you pushing the hell out of a wagon, but backing off when it's hammer time?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! It seems like you don't want to get your hands dirty at all with any lynch, because you are scared.

Also, why haven't you voted for Mafuyu?

Why are you pushing so hard for a L-1 vote, when not everyone had even posted yet(sorry for missing my role PM)

I smell a rat.

Mafuyu's letter-claim does not explain her behavior. If she is a child with a conditional mod-confirm, she should do that now. If she isn't, her complete lack of town reads and buddying (aka Mason breadcrumbs) demonstrates that she is lying. This is further suggested by the number of people who have attacked her and the lack of a coherent defense from her supposed partner. I'm kinda short on time right now but fully intend to do a detailed reread on this subject within the next 24 hours.

I don't see much benefit in Maf claiming the number of Ms because the chance that she actually knows this information is even lower than the chance that she's telling the truth. However, it

may

be helpful for nhammen, who is connected subtly to Mafuyu, to claim whether he is her mason partner or not. Opinions on this?

Anyway, while we're working this out, I'll put my vote back into play.
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

Hey look what you did here! Hopped on a new wagon!!! Let's see if later in the game you derail it... Oh wait.

@Maf:

Poppycack. It's extremely obvious that nobody other than ani or nahammen can be masons with you so a full-claim presents no risk at all. Stalling at this point is scummy as hell. Either name one of them as your mason partner for verification or die.

UNVOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: Mafuyu

Ok I hate THIS!! WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU ASK FOR HER TO CALL OUT HER OTHER MASONS!?!?! MASONS ARE VERY USEFUL TO THE TOWN, AND YOU ARE ASKING FOR THEM TO BE COMPLETELY DESTROYED! ALSO AGAIN YOU SWITCH WAGONS AND YOUR REASON WAS BECAUSE SHE CLAIMED MASON??? WHO WANTS TO KILL A MASON OTHER THAN SCUM?!?!?! (sorry for the caps I was angry.)

unvote

What a shocker. Please be less wishy washy and scared to get your hands dirty. Because you may not leave a blood trail behind you, but right now you are leaving a scum trail.

VOTE: Andrius

*Sigh* Again changing your vote. And I would have showed your reasons behind this vote, but I they were was he seems kinda scummy.

Actually...

UNVOTE: Andrius
VOTE: Fishythefish

The entirety of your play has been set-up/role speculation, opportunism, and defending a bad stance.

HOLY SHIT ANOTHER CHANGE LIKE THREE POSTS LATER!!!!!!!
OK YOU ARE SUCH A HYPOCRITE!!!! YOU VOTE SOME ONE FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING, BUT YOU ARE DOING IT WORSE!!!!!

Could we

please

speed up the leans and get some more votes on Fishy? Kthx.

This just reeks of scum, you are the only vote on fish here, and again you are starting a wagon that you will hop off of when it gets to big.

Ohey look who's scumhunting.

@NS:

You know I'm brilliant, what does that have to do with my alignment?

UNVOTE: Fishy
VOTE: Nobody Special

I'm headed out to work in a bit, and I'd like to have some exciting reading material when I get home. This does

not

mean that Fishy is off the hook.

WOW!!!!! AGAIN YOU HAVE COME FULL CIRCLE AND VOTE WITH NO REASON!!!!!! What happened to him being obv town????

This game needs more activity.

UNVOTE: NS
VOTE: Fishythefish

WOW... you are making me cry man, two posts later, you jump right off your partner NS and get on the fishy wagon, that earlier you said was no good, even though you started it.

Hello obv-alt. Your playstyle seems familliar. Anyway, welcome.

I'll gladly wagon Andrius with you when he gets back.

OF COURSE YOU WILL!!!!!! God, just god... wow, you suck! And reek of scum. If thats not the most opertunistic thing I ever seen then I don't know what is.

UNVOTE: Fishy
VOTE: Nobody Special

*Sigh*... I'm running out of things to say about your vote changes. It's almost as if you are active lurking by switching your vote with out reason.

Then you switch your vote three more times after NS is lynched.

Ok so there is my case on Ythil.
I would also like to point out how hard Agar follows Ythil and takes everything he says as gold.

Vote: Ythil
FoS: Agar

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok so if you didn't read my above post because it was to long I would just like to point out the ythil has 100 posts and 13 of them are vote changes. And not just any vote changes 10 of those consist of him starting one band wagon, then right before it's hammer time jumping off, contradicting himself, and starting another one, then repeating the cycle.

[nhammen]

I am now back from LA. Funny story: I was informed that a major portion of the pre-grad school test was going to come from a class that I had not taken as an undergrad. So, I took the entire time off of Mafia, so that I could learn the entirety of this class in 1 week. Mafia would provide too much of a distraction. So, I spent the entire week learning this stuff. Guess how many questions pertaining to this topic were on the test. F-ing ZERO!!! Not a single one! The school's website LIED TO ME! I could have been spending this whole doing much more useful stuff... GRRR


So anyways, catch up coming soon.