Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

[forbiddanlight]

Vote Kairyuu

Obv scum

@fuzzylightning: Explain why self-voting is detrimental to the town.

From a scum perspective, since I trust you to not be voting someone you believe is town.

[forbiddanlight]

forbiddan, you're voting the mod?

constraints of meta ^-^

It was more a joke than anything as we are in the RVS but I believe that if you are voting for yourself, then you really aren't helping the town if you are town, because that's a vote that could be used to catch scum.

Ok. But that presupposes the person self voting is town. And if they are town, why would one be voting them? It's essentially anti-town as opposed to precisely scummy. rather annoying to deal with, no?

[forbiddanlight]

Which is why I said detrimental to the town as opposed to scummy

Fair enough, fair enough. and I'll even let you off with your RVS excuse .

[forbiddanlight]

Voting for the mod in the RVS is something that happens often enough that its not really something that people comment on all that much, as its just a way to keep the mod on their toes, however it would be interesting to push for a mod lynch, just kidding.

Hey, sometimes you win prizes when you do it in Tar games. Rumor has it that it occasionally works in fl games as well. Kairyuu, at least, is not a spoilsport and also allows non player targets to be targetted. That is...assumably non player targets

/me eyes Kai suspiciously

Nothing to see here. Nothing at all.

[forbiddanlight]

As for Archons vote, I don't think it's really scummy if it was just to get him out of RVS. Now if he was pushing to lynch himself well...I can see how that would be bad

Actually, that would be scummy if it was to end RVS. Rather, artificially end it.

[forbiddanlight]

Why would it be scummy to artificially end the RVS? it pushes the game forward, something that always happens at some point or another when someone begins to ask questions.

Usually things that naturally end the RVS provide more information. Artificial ends deprive us of that information.

How would ending the RVS be scummy? Or, as you say, artificially. There is no required length to the RVS.

Correct. Or, rather, the length is loosely expressed as "until someone accidentally screws up". At least, that's my view. An artificial ending caused by a self vote is one I tend to try to ignore. If they claim they were trying to end then my ears perk up.

You bold the wrong portion of my quote. Italicized is mine. I am not friends with forbiddan outside of the game, in fact, I am not sure that we have ever interacted prior to being in this game.

Yep, I don't think so either. You might have been aware of my meta at best.

[forbiddanlight]

Mhm, however, some players do not like the RVS at all and feel it is pointless to have one. Would your ears perk if a type of player such as that were present?

Well, that's their problem. Probably so. They can either demonstrate their meta or their towniness.

[forbiddanlight]

The problem with ending the RVS so early is we did not get an insight on every single player. Prematurely ending the RVS allows players and mostly scum to just hop on BW with no questions asked. If the RVS had been allowed to run a little longer, we would of maybe seen some interesting votes and reasons for them from EVERYBODY. Then we could of acted accordingly.

I'm guessing you agree with my stance but I believe I was asked. What brings you into this discussion?

[forbiddanlight]

Alright, Forbiddan. (Also, a side question. Do you have a preference on what you want your name shortened as? Some people gripe when I shorten it to things they do not like.)

I could care less. This is an outdated screenname anyway. I'm not like Virgilia (gapgapgap!)

(If there's anyway to get that changed, as an aside, I'm game)

"Lynching a being not part of the game will result in a No Lynch"

This does not guarantee you are not part of the game

[forbiddanlight]

Lynching Kairyuu will likely end in no lynch, just so you all know :s.

[forbiddanlight]

I would have to say that I think Archon is town. The reason being most scum would not want to draw attention to themselves. I have self voted for myself in RVS as town, so I can see Archon doing it too.

WIFOM at best. For now the self vote is a null tell in my eyes.

Also, the mod gave us a slight set up hint. It isn't going to be Tar crazy.

Ah well, sad.

[forbiddanlight]

hehe, I've never been able to do that before....

You really need to play Tar games

Actually though, I think I like my vote...chaco was claiming he voted the mod just to see what the vote count would look like. Some of us began speculating whether the mod was really playing or not...here's a good way to find out. If there is a similar looking result for this as there was for the mod BW, then I'll conclude that the mod is indeed not playing, and switch my vote onto somebody else.

With an insanity level of five I doubt the mod is actually playing.

[forbiddanlight]

Unvote, Vote doombunny

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, chaco, forbiddan, and kikuchiyo are you only voting saber/me for the jokes we made? If so that seems like a very horrible reason and I will give my FoS out to you for that. If not I want all of the reasons you have for voting us.

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing more content but yeah ^-^

[forbiddanlight]

TBH I'm sort of an anti-meta player, I judge by the actions you make in this game. I don't care if you act scummy all the time, if you act scummy here I'm going to push your lynch. I dislike people trying to 'disguise' their meta by playing worse as town so they can play better as mafia.

I like this ^-^. I don't mind using meta to implicate someone but it's pointless to use it to clear them.

Why are you voting Neo looker?

This is a good question.

[forbiddanlight]

Eh, go ahead and claim. You're 75% there already.

[forbiddanlight]

Don't like this at all.

Seems like a scum attempt to find VIPs to pick off.

Are you serious?

I have an incredibly improbable role. You might be able to call it a power role...it is extremely useful, but not in the usual way. That being said, if I claim it under threat of lynch, I am almost positive that nobody will believe said claim. Is claiming worthwhile or no? Normally, I wouldn't ask this question, but it's a claim that I think is practically unprecedented and *may* have been in the Worst Roles Ever thread....

Oh...

Wait..

Nevermind. I actually misread this. I thought he said it was NOT extremely useful and that it was bad. When I saw the comparison to miller that's what got me thinking that.

Worst Roles ever thread also made me feel it was throwaway

Do NOT claim not that I've reread your post.

[forbiddanlight]

Alright. Guess I might as well at this point. I'm a Miller NK-Immune One-shot vig. The vig is one-shot, the rest of the roles are permanent.

Are you...

Did...

KAIRYUU!

What
The
HELL
MANZ!

Whatever, Neto might as well be cleared...

[forbiddanlight]

Night vig. And I've been debating claiming since the early game.....I knew that this role was better out in the open, but I wasn't sure how it would be accepted as a D1 claim without lynch pressure...But if I claim under lynch-pressure, there's no way anyone would believe that.

This one is an odd one

On the one hand, your NK immunity is NOT something you want to claim

On the other, claiming miller early is smart.

Honestly, the best way to play this would have been to play as pro town as possible and hope to draw the NK. Second best would be to just claim the miller part in your first post.

That's for future reference, though you'll likely never get a role like that again.

[forbiddanlight]

impressive, and conveniently safe...

the only problem is during endgame you're gonna be a high suspect.

I'm not sure what to make of it for now, but for now I suppose I'll believe him.

His claim should actually be a null tell...but...given his join date, he wouldn't know the reference, so I actually lean "almost confirmed town"

If it were someone older I'd ask if they were joking and if they said no I'd be pushing it as a null tell.

Further, then we better not get to endgame, right?

[forbiddanlight]

Flavor: Alexander Anderson. Note that I've only watched the first episode, so I don't know much about him....

That makes a hell of a lot of sense actually.

Yeah.

[forbiddanlight]

Question for everybody: Who has watched Hellsing (either watched the anime, read the anime, or watched the OVAs, or any combination of the three?)

Watched the anime and OVAs. I want to read the manga, but yeah.

At any rate, I think he should wait until assumed lylo to shoot. It gives us an extra chance.

As for Rule 19, that actually makes me less inclined to believe the claim.

[forbiddanlight]

One more quick thing, I don't like how forbiddan thinks neto is "almost clear". People are either clear or not and Neto is far from clear.

Explain why this dichotomy is true?

I can show you why it's false.

People can be quite close to clear based on a convergence of factors including the meta of this site (in this case), without being fully clear because I'd rather not excuse bad actions so quickly. Oh, and the fact that Kairyuu's modding style takes after Tar's and you bet your ass there are falseclaims if he's as loyal to that sort of layout as I'm thinking.

But anyway, I'm inclined to believe that someone new to the site wouldn't realize the significance of NK immune Miller vig.

[forbiddanlight]

Uh...You're right, I absolutely don't. Is it a reference to a previous game?

What was it...Oman's title? Or was it Thok?

[forbiddanlight]

1) 265 is the most sensible post in regards to the claim. Seems like it took forever for someone to realize it. I am a believer in early vig claims, and I think the shot should be taken early as well. Mafia is a numbers game and reducing the lynch pool is an effective strategy. That said, Net cannot be taken to a lylo situation, FoS to those stating it good for him to wait until an assumed mylo/lylo, and I propose the simplest option- Net self vig's night one. Problem solved. Thoughts?

the NK immune seems to be...problematic for that maybe?

Neto's second reason for not self vigging is weaksauce.

By simply claiming miller you could have used your other abilities to towns advantage. As it stands, if you are who you say you are, then you are going to be nothing more than a distraction unless scum is extremely vanilla. Having watched the ani,e, I highly doubt that. I'm fine with you taking a shot, but you definitely should be lynched at some point. The only thing which confirms players in this game is a sane "godfatherless" investigation, or a flip.

True enough. I've already explained why I lean "PROBABLY true" on him though.

Second, I was getting my information from the wiki. The wiki does not include a discussion of the D1 claim, although there is one sentence in there that hints at it. I didn't know that it was an established "rule", though.

It's argued back and forth, actually.

[forbiddanlight]

If there was a death miller I might cry.

Hey now, I've made a game with that role before and run it. Not TOO many people complained.

[forbiddanlight]

I still stand by Net's kill being directed and sooner rather than later. While it could be argued that we'll tell the scum who not to kill, we're not going to pick somebody pro-town that the scum would want to get rid of, instead we'll pick somebody scummy (or inactive, as how I generally would like inactives to be dealt with) that the scum would like to keep alive to generate mislynches (if our target is town); or inactives that will slow the game down and therefore helping the scum.

I suppose this is a fair point.

As far as the claim goes and him possibly being a NK-Immune SK instead of Miller NK-Immune One-Shot Vig at this point I suggest we treat it as a normal miller claim. If he acts scummy, lynch him. The way he claimed it leads me to believe him though.

Makes sense

Saber seems more of a fail town (no offence) to me and I while I see why people want to lynch him I don't agree with parts of it.

I get the impression it's stuff like this that makes people tie doombunny to saber.

He has been helping the town recently and before he was making jokes. Not really scummy to me.However, he wasn't helping town out much which is why I labeled him as Fail Town.

How skillfully to have it both ways

unvote
vote Archon
(You were my original vote)

Why was this again?

Recently he has been helping town
Earlier he was fooling around and not helping town.

I...suppose it can be interpreted like this...

@Doom: What of Saber do you classify as helping the town? Does his earlier unhelpfulness outweigh his recent helping? Is he fail-town or still scummy? Scummy-town?

This is a quality question that needs to be seconded

About Archon, I want a vote out there (it strikes me as a stock market thing), but if I'm going to have one out there, I'd rather keep it on the same person than keep switching because all I'll ever do is log on, switch my vote, and log off. It's like a duty...that's sad...

So you have no scum reads at this point?

Thanks...

I am becoming convinced we have this wrong. I will post more tomorrow, but I don't see the Doom/saber scum connection anymore.

You don't? Funny, I see it more now.

@ Archon: Yes, I am witholding thoughts I think may be more harmful than beneficial at this point. I will gladly revisit the subject when/if necessary and can offer loads of evidence for you. For now I have moved on.

I do not like this. I want this remembered, however, so that we can press him on it later. Right now it seems to be trying to get a free pass on not thinking.

He's been generally helping town (asking good questions, giving good descriptions and explaining actions etc.) Starting at post 123. His unhelpfulness does not outweigh his recent helping but he is redeeming himself. He is scummy of course but I'm saying he's just a bad townie because joking around does not make me feel he needs to be lynched.

Then who should be lynched?

But I mean if no one votes then we'll never get anywhere, so I try to at least keep a vote on the board. It's not like I'm riding bandwagons.

May I ask what the point of having a vote out is if it blatantly has no pressure value and you obviously aren't going for the lynch? You make your vote worthless

Because it's not a race, where the first person to do something scummy would get my vote. I'm trying to give everyone ample enough time to have their input before going through and analyzing everything, because there will forever be new developments.

Well, Amished already said what I wanted to say to this. But basically the idea is if you don't keep at least some level of analysis going you'll get backlogged like mad and be forced to revise whatever your super analysis is once you finish it.

As for Looker's re explanation, it makes slightly more sense but again, Amished hits you with a fair point on lurkers.

Pretty old news here. I don't like this question at all. The buddying and defending between saber and Doom, and the discussion thereof, has taken up the majority of the day. Not quite sure how you missed it.

Yeeeeahh...I'm just waiting for a chainsaw to seal the deal ^-^

I said he was scummy, I never said I thought he was scum. When I someone is scummy it means that they are acting like scum, not nessesarily that they are scum. While he isn't comepletly cleared of being scum I feel that joking isn't enough to get a vote from me.

So when do you vote someone for being scum? How do you determine that they are scum if people who "act like scum" can be town?

I feel that you may be scum or at least scummy (see before). Your attacks on people with weak evidence seems really scummy to me but, like saber you are becoming less scummy to me with your more helpful posts. Some of your questions are good but others just seem like fluff that doesn't really help or hurt the town.

Elaborate on this?

Ok...yeah, I'm happy with my vote as it stands, and now I'm caught up and happy. I like Amished and Shotty right now.

[forbiddanlight]

I believe Saber's 154 is what you're looking for.

Oh how helpful, thank you ^-^

Well, we really can't call buddies til we see a flip though, so I'm content with doom bunny.

[forbiddanlight]

Why doombunny over Saber? Personally, I am fine with either, but would prefer Saber over doombunny.

Laziness. And I voted him with a TV trope. That's just too awesome to ignore.

[forbiddanlight]

As awesome as it is, not worthy of my vote switching over. So it will stay.

That's fair. I mean, if saber ends up needing a hammer, I'll switch.

[forbiddanlight]

@forbiddan: You're welcome Wink I saw that right away, but I was rather into the discussion at that point.

Nyeh, I haven't been paying as much attention as I should, but I did see a few things indeed.

[forbiddanlight]

I'm leaning on Looker myself but I'm still going to wait and hear more from him before I put a vote down.

Ok

I vote for someone when I have good reasons to. Joking is Not a good reason. Maybe I wasn't so clear on this part but I've said it a lot before. Joking around is scummy. It is not lynchworthy. It seems like failtown to me because it was scummy but not scummy enough to get a vote from me.

But why is it scummy if you don't think scum would do it?

What more do you want me to say? Amished was attacking me, saber, and neo with weak points such as "You were joking around" and "You wern't here for a while". Lately he has been giving better arguements and helping town more. Some of his questions toward me were good with others such as the one I answered here "Are my questions good" seem like fluffy questions that have no point here.

I don't think I've seen much fluff from Amished

And you tend to start with bad cases to get reactions for good ones

Who are you to say you don't do fluff amished? That's for us to decide.

Nyeh, it's technically a statement we can hold him to.

[forbiddanlight]

I doubt that people's alignment affect their behavior in random voting stage, once we're past RVS the first couple pages are rarely mentioned in the later days.

To be fair I was caught as scum once thanks to RVS interactions. Shit sucked.

I think it's more likely that scum start off the game with admittedly completely random votes so they can't be held accountable at all for them...

Or meta fulfilling votes

Higher than you think. Scum will sometimes vote their scumpartner in the RVS to bus them and defend themselves later.

Do you seriously think this? I mean...what's the gain? Numbers are generally BETTER than townie cred, since you tend to lose the latter in endgame, but having your numbers remain around is more likely to serve you well.

Despite knowing this I tend to bus like hell though

And, yeah, I realize I'm totally not commenting on anything game related. I really haven't seen anything that caught my interest so I felt like discussing theory.

[forbiddanlight]

I was making a point that doombunny made an admittedly random vote (from random.org) and is more likely scum because of it, but if you want to claim scum because you have a meta for certain votes, I'll take that too...

Nah, actually, my meta for voting the mod merely means that I do it regardless of alignment.

I was merely trying to provide anecdotal evidence that in some cases RVS CAN be used, but probably not in most.

[forbiddanlight]

To the other 4 (forb, kiku, shotty, and chaco): would you consider voting the other if necessary?

Yes

Is your current vote the one you think will produce the most information with a scumflip?

I haven't analyzed that deeply. At the moment I think they both are so tied to each other the information given by either flip approaches equal.

[forbiddanlight]

Long story short I'm technically not supposed to be online right now. This may change tonight but for the time being I'm technically cheating. Living with unreasonable parents, etc.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd like to hear Forbiddan, Net, and Looker's thoughts.

I could care less either way. I've raegquit games like that before, as either alignment, so I don't think we can conclude anything there. I'll support a saber lynch if we decide to take him out before he gets replaced. I've already expressed that I feel the information will be equal if we lynch either. For the sheer idea of getting a longer time to discuss stuff I think I favor doombunny.

[forbiddanlight]

I was all for a saber lynch up till Doom's complete 180 in 408.

/me missed this

If I weren't already voting him...no, actually, even though I am, if it weren't for the fact I lack a clever trope to illustrate it, I'd revote him.

[forbiddanlight]

Sup!

Doombunny, can you givbe me a summarization of the game please?

I'm sure there is a trope for this. It isn't quite sarcatic confession but comes close. I am amused .

[forbiddanlight]

3 killing roles in a small theme. o.k.

Is that too many?

/me gets nervous thinking of other games she's made...

In all seriousness though, I argue that 3 killing roles can be easily balanced.

[forbiddanlight]

The only thing that could go wrong with this whole thing is, what if there is no vig and Neto is sctually a SK? His normal killing can be passed off as a vig kill, he's going to look guilty when copped, and the bulletproof could be a specail power he has or he just doesn't want to be killed by maf.

Isn't he one shot?

[forbiddanlight]

I'm not going to use my vig N1. I think that the arguments for me using it are rather weak and flippant - Yeah, sure, we lose a townie. Big whoop. I honestly can't believe I'm hearing that....It makes 10X more sense to use it later when there is more information and when I have a reasonable suspicion of another player. In general, day 1 lynches are crapshoots anyway.

If we lynch either saber or doombunny, and they are scum, will you vig the other?

[forbiddanlight]

In that case I might make an exception, because I would have a decent reason for using it. While I think the link is tenuous, it would be extremely valuable to catch scum earlier. I'd have to think hard about it....That being said, I'd rather not say in thread definitely who and when I'm targeting, just in case of a mafia doctor.

I...guess that's understandable.

[forbiddanlight]

Mod: Requesting replacement for Saberwolf. If this requires a deadline extension then I request that as well.

Saber was replaced by SSK

No he wasn't. Archon was.

[forbiddanlight]

Archon was replaced by SSK, Saber is unreplaced as of yet.

Oops.

[forbiddanlight]

Anyway, I am Sir Integra Hellsing, leader of the war against vampires, and an informed townie meaning at the end of every night I get to know how many vampires are alive because I am so awesome at recognizing them. The end.

Oh, hi, missed this claim.

Pretty cool...

But so EASILY fakeclaimed by scum it's not even funny.

[forbiddanlight]

Sir Integra is a major part of every series and somebody you expect to be in the game. Not as a safe claim, as a real claim. Unless you have more evidence than "oh, it's a likely fake claim" I'm gonna hold 533 as the scummiest thing you've said.

Besides the fact that I've made important people falseclaims for scum (and will continue to do so), and db's scummy behavior, nope, guess I've just been scummy.

I could see Integra as a falseclaim, and I also think the role fits QUITE nicely with that.

HOWEVER!

I would like to take advantage of this upon further review.

Unvote

Let him live a night. So we can get some numbers. Then we lynch/vig him.

As far as I can tell,

Vote Saberwolf

brings him to L-2.

What would be NICE is a votecount.

Remind me to demand a votecount from you mere hours after you mention rl issues keeping you from posting one in the next game I play of yours.

[forbiddanlight]

Say that DB didn't have to claim. How does scum benefit from knowing how many vampires are out there? I don't see how that benefits the scum moreso than the town to make it a fakeclaim.

You do realize I'm implying he DOES NOT HAVE THIS ABILITY! That he's a goon who will just report, true or false, how many people are in his faction.

Amished, if we're not going to give any credence to claims, what's the point in asking for them?

I give credence on a case by case basic. Amished apparently believes DB

[forbiddanlight]

@Forb: Look at the theme; there's clearly pro-town and anti-town vampires in the Hellsing mythos. To let a townie know how many people are vampires makes more sense than to let the scum know, especially considering we don't actually know what we're up against (could make a case for the manufactured vampires, the nazi's, and a couple other things that we're "against"). That's why I believe DB.

There are good and bad vampires. However, I suspect the scum are vampires and Alucard's a red herring if he's in this game at all.

You misunderstood my argument, again.

I
Am
Saying
That
Doombunny
Is
A
Vampire
Goon.

That he has NO power, and that he's just going to tell us a true or false number of his scum group tomorrow.

536 is a bit silly. I think the implication there was clear. Its an easy fakeclaim as scum because scum could easily slide by with a reasonable number according to the flavor.

Thank you. At least you understand.

[forbiddanlight]

Hi ABR

Unvote, Vote ABR

[forbiddanlight]

So, since you feel DB is a goon, you think he'll tell the truth about anything and it's worth leaving him alive since you're not voting for him?

I think he'll have to pick something realistic. It'll be WIFOM after that but we can mind a little data out of what he says.

And on the offchance he IS town we have solid data.

[forbiddanlight]

So my nameclaim means nothing now? I can see how my role could be crappy (it is -_-) but saying Integra Hellsing isn't in the game is just, well, unfuckingbeleivable.

Actually, I have several theories for that. One, she isn't in the game, as you say. Why is this unbelievable? Wouldn't that make the set up that much harder to break?

Two, she's in the game, but for some really awesome flavor reasons, she's scum. This, however, does not jibe with my "vampire scum" theory unless she's like a godfather and if there is a cop they look for vamp/not vamp (doubtful with Net's claim)

I'm sure I can work with two with a little thought.

Finally, with Neto's claim there is one problem. He's one shot. If we see any more than that, he's dead. In fact, odds are he's dead before lylo.

Oh, and beyond finally, you've been scummier.

[forbiddanlight]

It may still be balanced with work by a mod (and I'm not particularly commenting on that) but my point is that the main characters *are in the game*.

Most of them, yes. But even if they are in the game do they all have to be good?

I'm not saying that flavor makes you guilty or innocent as that would make the setup breakable; but combine my belief that Integra would be in the game with an ability that doesn't make sense as scum. I don't know if that makes sense; hell, I don't think I'll even convince you {forb} but I'm putting my ideas out to see if everyone thinks I'm on crazy pills or if I make sense.

I fully expect you to put your ideas out there whether you'll convince me of anything or not. And I see your logic, I just think mine makes more sense given DB's actions.

[forbiddanlight]

(Your first question is answered by the first line in the 2nd quote box, btw)

Oh, sorry. Well, either way, I don't think his ability is as he says.

[forbiddanlight]

@Chaco: Yes, but I want to hear forbs opinions too.

On what?

ABR and DB both can die so far. Then again, ABR's attempts to counteract saber's scumminess aren't too bad and if he produces more I'm willing to reconsider.

[forbiddanlight]

He means on Doombunny.

I expressed those as well. Let him live today, make him give us results tomorrow, and determine whether we should lynch/vig him by behavior.

[forbiddanlight]

No, regarding your suspicions on him to make you believe he's scum.

Oh. Maybe I should get working on those ^-^.

Rather, working on articulating them. Who knows, I might change my mind with a quick reread.

[forbiddanlight]

First 9 of his posts feel like fluff/IIoA

Mostly his post 9 rubbed me the wrong way. As if the very idea he could be scum is a joke.

10 and 11 feel like downplaying "Oh, it's just jokes, why am I being voted?"

As you go on there's a lot of follow the leader.

his 21 feels pedantic...not like he's looking for scum, more like he's looking for anything to distract from himself.

24 is his protection of saber

I already addressed most of 25-29 I think.

They are still mostly bad. Oddly enough the most original and somewhat pro town thing I've seen from him are the attacks on Amished. And even those weren't really followed through on. Instead we see a follow the leader on looker.

His 36 was that horrible HORRIBLE turning point on "What the hell man?"

Up to 40 it feels like hopeless AtE with "oh god I'm gonna die"

Personally, I see too much follow the leader, IIoA, fluff, and inconsistency to think he's pro-town. It doesn't feel like there is any genuine scumhunting taking place here.

[forbiddanlight]

So would you disagree to a Doombunny lynch today? And then a look into Saber/ABR? Flip dependent vigging perhaps?

Something like that. I think no matter how ABR flips we need to keep DB alive til Day 2 at least.

[forbiddanlight]

I don't see how I'm saying I'm not scum.

I love how you cut out the relevant part.

The one where you were joking about acting scummy.

Allow me to call it up now. Here

Oh, I see. You counted 0 as one. I counted 0 as 0.

Um...actually, let me teach you a nice feature.

Underneath the submit/preview buttons on the quick reply box, there is a "Display posts from previous *dropdown box* by *dropdown box* *dropdown box* GO!"

I used this to filter only your posts out.

The numbers I use correspond to the post number displayed that way

Respond to me after you reread it that way please.

[forbiddanlight]

Post 9-There is a huge difference between a joke and an actual "theres no way I could be scum. Anybody who says otherwise must be scum!" Mine was the joke.

Even jokes can be presented in such a way that you are trying to imply that it's impossible for you to be scum. I do not recall tacking on the second part.

10+11-From what I saw. That was the only reason they were voting me. Jokes still aren't scummy.

They increase in scumminess as the game starts moving. The game had started moving.

As for you, you seem to have made mostly fluffy posts for the beginning of the game up until just recently really. What I find weird about this is that you find someones nameclaim scummy without really backing it up. If you think that Integra isn't town sided than why? This has been nagging me for a while yet you and chaco just seem to go with it.

That's classified information.

However, I can definitely see a scum Integra. The non classified way to explain it is that your behavior has not been that or a town Integra

21-So I'm not supposed to ask questions. Bad question, eh, maybe. Distracting the game from myself, no.

Asking questions is great. Asking questions that have no real point to determining town and scum is not great.

24-I have said this so many times...Saber is scummy yes, Would I be fine with his lynch? Yes. If I could choose anyone to lynch would it be saber? No.

Yet you also said you thought he was town. But whatever, we've belabored this.

40-Was asking if I should claim or not. Not much more than that.

I'll probably drop this because by this point I was moving rather quickly through your posts given the content or lack thereof of the rest of them

Finally, I'd like proof of my "fluffy posts"

[forbiddanlight]

How is it classified? Would it cause you to claim? I doubt it. Would it put us at a disadvantage? Probably not. Unless you can give me a reason why you shouldn't than I see no reason for you to say why you think Integras not town.

It would cause me to claim. And possibly unnecessarily.

Unless you can give me a reason why you shouldn't than I see no reason for you to say why you think Integras not town.

Well, I gave you my non classified reason

Throughout the game you've been pretty much referencing other games. Other games have little influence on this game other than the mod bases his mod style off of these other mods. Other posts have just been pretty much what other people said or did with nothing new to add. Others had little to do with the game. When your posts weren't fluffy they were often short and didn't add too much to the game. If you want straight up examples of them I'd be happy to give them to you but I'm in a hurry so I probably won't have time to give them right now.

I disagree that other games have no relevance here, but I can at least appreciate an IIoA accusation.

Ok, the second part was pretty much mine. Whatever, you can just cut that part out. But heres a question? What would I gain from my joke as scum? I doubt anyone else thought of it that I was a joke that I couldn't be scum.

Not much. I'm saying you screwed up ^-^

You're missing the point here. The only reason they had their votes on me was because I was joking. Pay attention to the word only.

But by that point joking was scummy

All you've really done here was confirm that my question was bad. My question was bad. My question was not changing the subject away from me.

I think it was. However, I also read this in isolated posts, so I may have misremembered the situation.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, I see that to you joking is scummy but is it really scummy enough to lynch somebody when the ONLY reason is that they were joking?

Do you really think you'd be lynched that early in the day.

What do you mean by strong flavor? Also, I wasn't asking why I might be scum. I'm asking why Integra might be scum.

You can't separate these if you are Integra. Doesn't work like that.

[forbiddanlight]

Okay, I have a confession to make. I'm the scum. I'm mafia; however, I won't be revealing any teammates. You got me and any recent interactions you can dig up. I'm mafia.

What the fuck? That like...saps the fun out of the game :S...

Hello Jester. :3 We're not gonna risk that, I say if anything, you get vigged son.

I agree with this sentiment.

[forbiddanlight]

It's not a trick, sillies. There's nothing to be gained even if it were a ploy. Why are you guys so friggin paranoid?

Seems to happen when you play mafia :S.

[forbiddanlight]

Cough. COUGHHHH.

Oh? It sounds like you have a bad cough SSK. Please, take an expectorant and say what you are thinking ^-^

[forbiddanlight]

You really want me to cite it?

Please do ^-^

I think I have a feeling and I disagree

You see, there's a problem with me definitively saying that I'll kill looker tonight. You say that if they protect, we just lynch tomorrow, and that's true. However, that gives scum the ability to waste *two* town kills, not just one. How about this: I will roll a 4-sided die and will kill Looker on the day matched by that die, provided he has not already been lynched?

I dunno...seems iffy...

[forbiddanlight]

You really want me to cite it?

Please do ^-^

I think I have a feeling and I disagree

No problem.

Oh that. That was different. The mod DIRECTLY INTERFERED with a badly designed game.

That game was hell

[forbiddanlight]

Vote: Looker

I am fine if she is jester. Get her out of the way. Its a wasted vig shot as far as I'm concerned, plus, I think its incredibly ignorant to assume that Net's shot is going to connect. It may, it may not. We are better off letting Net do what he thinks is right, when he thinks it, and judge from that point. As it is, he is acting anti-town imo, however, we should be able to garner more info by using him as opposed to lynching him.

We have three claims on the table, pushing ARB to claim may just further complicate the issue and lynching without a claim may also backlash for us. Last game I played like this we ended up outing four power roles on day 1 and lynching the town doctor.

Its day 1. Lynch the claimed scum.

This is fair enough

Unvote, Vote Looker

And that is L-2 I beleive. (correct me if I"m wrong) I still feel as if we're going to hit jester hee. I don't like how everyone is just giving up it seems "Screw it if he's jester, I just want to get rid of him" If you truly think that way I encourage you to give second thoughts to that and to reconsider your vote. Just a heads up though, the deadline is Friday. If there is no lynch that I agree with I will vote Looker on Thursday because even though it's a bad lynch (at least from my PoV) it is still better than a No lynch.

Not sure I like this, but it's such an unpopular stance it almost could be taken as townie.

But, the fact that he's playing the middle ground feels like it's not as good as I'd like.

Well, generally speaking, if he really is scum, his partner(s) aren't going to want to get rid of him because it severely docks their chances. You could more than likely tell a reluctance near the latter part of the count. Possibly. Not saying it will prove useful. But it never hurts to look.

To be fair my late vote probably looks bad but I wanted him shot so we could lynch someone else today...but, I guess Kiku is right.

Not really, it just seemed more "comeplete" than 'I think ABR and Amished are the most scummy'

More complete != better

It gives the scum a little more info then is good for D1.

[forbiddanlight]

Forbiddan and Amished: Does it really give scum that much info? It should be fairly obvious who the town does and does not suspect....

Not necessarily. Just because someone isn't getting much flack doesn't mean they are unsuspected.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok...can we all facepalm at Looker now?

I want a DAMNED good explanation post game. Anyone have any ideas on who his neighbor was?

[forbiddanlight]

Forbiddan - I was thinking....Is it possible that he was a reverse-miller designed to throw him off? As for his neighbor's character, it's fairly obvious, as there were two Valentine brothers in the series.

I've done it before. That was my first thought but...I dunno

I could get behind a doombunny lynch though for the time being. Vampires != evil given what we know.

Also - I didn't kill Amished OR kikuchyo, for the record - my one-shot vig is still intact. However, this means that we have an extra killing role....

hehe, Kairyuu is pretty cool.

[forbiddanlight]

Hmm....Yeah, I'd suggest a Doombunny lynch as well, since the # of vampires doesn't seem to matter....Unless the scumgroup is real vampires, perhaps. In that case we'd be looking for Alucard/Incognito/Police Girl and possibly Helena.

I have a feeling Alucard might be SK, to be honest.

This is completely irrational, btw, and I have nothing to support it.

[forbiddanlight]

Hmm....Yeah, I'd suggest a Doombunny lynch as well, since the # of vampires doesn't seem to matter....Unless the scumgroup is real vampires, perhaps. In that case we'd be looking for Alucard/Incognito/Police Girl and possibly Helena.

I have a feeling Alucard might be SK, to be honest.

This is completely irrational, btw, and I have nothing to support it.

You can honestly imagine Alucard being an SK? Really?!

You do realize he only serves Integra for the lulz. I would totally cast him as SK just to piss off the people who want to break the game with claims.

[forbiddanlight]

Also, there's one other thing that's been bothering me. Looker was a nazi vampire if I'm not mistaken. Even if Neto is correct in saying that he was a reverse-death miller it still leaves chaco being a town sided nazi vampire.

Actually, the Valantines were NOT Nazi vampires, and had very little affiliation with Millenium IIRC.

Vote Chaco

Even if the reveal is genuine, there's a good chance the neighbor isn't pro-town. I have to leave to go back to school from home, but I'll fill this in with reasons later today, consider this a placeholder for my opinion.

I disagre with this logic, actually. I'm taking the neighbor claim as null.

[forbiddanlight]

Millennium Organization (May catch Incognito, depending on how you read the series)

I can confirm this is not the case. Well, somewhat. We won't know for CERTAIN until either I or someone else in millenium flips, but I know I'm town and millenium.

I will not claim further.

Well, frankly, I'm not up to dealing with your laziness.

Unvote, vote:Magnus_Orion

I'm not sure I like this.

[forbiddanlight]

I don't know if this will cause you to claim further or not but I have a quick question for you. Don't answer it if it will reveal anything further than what we need however. Anyway, here's my question. Earlier you said that you thought Integra would be scummy if she was in the game. You didn't however reveal more because it would cause you to claim. Was being part of Millenium the reason for thinking this (sort of like chacos reasoning earlier) or would it cause you to just flat out claim?

Being part of Millennium was indeed one of the reasons I could see a scum Integra.

FL, I'm not sure that I like what I'm seeing from you. Your discouraging of the use of logic and the way that you present everything as a done deal, already decided is a bit disconcerting. On the other hand, I think that you raise good points, especially about Shotty as possible scum. What to do, what to do, what to do....

Huh? I'm...confused? Elaborate please?

[forbiddanlight]

@Chaco+Forbs-(Again, feel free not to answer if this would cause you to claim Forbs) You are both part of millenium/FREAKS. Is there any flavor about why you joined up with the town (because you would both seem like scum names to me) or what the mafia might be?

There is no flavor on either of those counts...you asking this makes me slightly more uncomfortable about your supposed towniness.

[forbiddanlight]

I wish fl would not have shown scum her hand in 732, but the cards have been shown.

I haven't played everything yet. But I think it needed to be said.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, honestly, I need to catch up since my last post since I haven't been paying as much attention as I should be. I also am busy til basically Sunday. So...I apologize but bear with me until then.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, I will catch up today after I have breakfast.

[forbiddanlight]

DB post 758 reminds me why I want to lynch him again.

Shotty 774: Eh, I guess I see your argument, I try not to make one solid block a faction in my games.

SSK 779: Seriously? DB was bad, but that was pretty bad too...

m_o 784: Why do you ask those two? Just curious

Chaco 789: That's a very good point.

Net 790: I'm not sure I agree with that line of logic.

DB 802: Backpedalling...I also hope that claim at the end is sarcastic.

DB 809: Mafia, srs bizness

Net 810: I'm sure I've posted it before. Just go into my old D1 posts.

ABR 815 has a good point about jokes at this stage

/me sighs

DB, you are quite erratic, you never seem to commit to a stance that you actually back up, you spend more time making noise than actual signal and reads on people, and overall you haven't been assisting the town at all.

Shottu 827: Could you repost this case for me?

@fl - What are your thoughts on Shotty?

I remember thinking he was town before. What's he trying to do again? (I'll admit, the walls of text are ironically hard for me to read, despite me posting one now)

Shotty 832: I must not have been paying attention. What kik connections

DB 844: Hate to admit it but...that's kinda his meta I think

Net 848: That's...a curious theory...

m_o 850: Interesting...I hate to ask but can you elaborate?

SSK 855: Well, to be fair, this would change the wisdom of voting DB

Konowa 859: Reasoning would be nice. What ties DB and shotty together?

I will have to admit Net has a point. No one is providing any reasoning on DB...this makes me feel a little worse about his odds of being scum

Chaco 885: Why is he scummy though?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=285

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeey...I recognize that game!

Net 890: Actually, I'm finding you somewhat town for this. Apologizing about chainsawing decreased that town read however.

Chaco 893: Is joking all most of it? I don't like that. Though I agree on a couple of your points. Erraticness, etc. I don't think you go far enough

And that's that.

I'm still for a DB lynch, Chaco is also getting up there, to be honest.

I want a

Votecount, Mod. Now

[forbiddanlight]

FL: While you're here, I was wondering - what's your read on SSK?

Meta says he's useless town, probably.

[forbiddanlight]

Reasoning would be nice. However, if I presented that reasoning right now that would give both Shotty and Doombunny the opportunity to stop whatever it is that I have caught. This way keeps them both oblivious to what it is.

I am unsure if I like this, but will accept it and assess this statement when you do reveal what it is.

[forbiddanlight]

You should vote fl.

Not voting til I get a votecount.

I will probably be voting DB however.

[forbiddanlight]

I expect three scum, just based off 12 players. One is dead
That leaves a hypothetical 2 scum
At the time my top suspects were shotty and konowa, and I like to hear my suspects opinions on each other, see if anything interesting seems to be exhibited by those parties.

Fair enough. Draw any conclusions?

My role pm states that I command armies of zombie nazis. (Which of course is a dream come true for me Smile )
It also says that unfortunately this fact does not help me in this game.
However, upon rereading my role pm, I realize now that although I know from what little research I bothered on my character that they are a normal vampire, it is not explicitly mentioned in my role pm.

I...

think

I know who you are

Anyway, yeah, I'll

Unvote, Vote Doombunny

then. For someone who we've been crying to lynch all day, he sure has very few votes.

[forbiddanlight]

WHY?! WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!??!! WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR HIM?!! BECAUSE OF PEER PRESSURE?! BECAUSE YOUR MOM DIDN'T LOVE YOU ENOUGH!?!!!! GIVE ME A FREAKING REASON!!!!!!!!!!!

It's in my wall

Did you bother reading it at all?

[forbiddanlight]

magnus, I am going to have to burst your bubble. I am Milennium. Start looking elsewhere.

Wait a minute!

When did we confirm that Millennium was town? All we know is that some millennium MEMBERS exist in the town. This does not make me feel good

If I am adding correct, again early morning and no coffee yet, Doombunny is at L-1. I am willing to hammer. However, there are still some questions of my own that I would like answered before I do this.

Wait, what?

The last votecount says he has one vote. I added one vote...have there been others I missed?

[forbiddanlight]

EBWOP:

Um...nevermind...

I read too quickly. I ended up reading ABR's number with Doombunny's name. Now things make a lot more sense.

Sorry about that...

[forbiddanlight]

Konowa, what on earth do you expect DB to do if he's placed a random vote on someone he doesn't think is scum and a bandwagon starts to form? Do you expect him to stick with it, even though he doesn't support it? Also: Of course the entire town can't be Milennium, there are only 5 potential players from it.

aren't there more?

We have Doc, Schroedinger, Rip Van Winkle, Major, Captain, Zorin, Alhambra at the least?

Wiki includes the Valantine brothers...as...well...

Oh.

That's 9 people.

That does make a VERY...interesting situation.

[forbiddanlight]

Hmm....That is interesting. I hadn't realized that before. That being said, we know that Pip Bernadotte is town...and he's not Millennium

Yep, that works ^-^

I doubt that Kai would have made all of one faction town. And plus, if Millennium were the town, there would be precious few fakeclaims left.

I don't think character name will have much to do with alignment.

[forbiddanlight]

Lol if DB is scum so is Net. There's no two sides about it at all.

Elaborate?

Why?

Also, why is Doombunny scum? Here is a hint, saying go look at his iso does not count as an answer.

Has anyone read and responded to what I posted on DB?

Obvious, obvious coaching at times keeping him in line. Defending him like a mad man while feeling no scrutiny for his claim.

Is he defending him? I seem him attacking you to provide reasoning. That doesn't defend DB

1. The joking
2. Indecision with easily back outs
3. Going after only the ones who go after him
4. "Dumb or Scum" questions

Elaborate. Why are these scummy?

[forbiddanlight]

FL, if it was in your wall of text, I didn't, because I felt that the responses were contained in my responses to Konowa on the same page.

It was in my wall of text. I guess I'll ask for a requote of your response.

You make two arguments and point to two posts by DB that implicate him as scum. These posts are 758 and 802. I'm not sure why you find 758 to be scummy, and your accompanying commentary ("reminds me of why I wanted to vote DB in the first place") doesn't help much. 802...he's still renewing his suspicion of Saber/ABR, but he's adding suspects. I'm not entirely sure what's wrong with that. Wishy-washy? I'd prefer to think that it's the effect of the replacement. ABR has done a much better job in this game than Saber ever did. Backpedaling...Maybe. Again, though, I don't feel that it's enough to call him scum.

The two posts I point to are posts between my last post and the post I made there. Those aren't the only scummy posts overall.


IIRC, I also found a lot of useless D1, with most of his posts being noise. I'll look to see if I can find that post.

[forbiddanlight]

This wall

And

This wall

Are more of my reasonings, from back on D1.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, now THIS is much, much better. Sorry that I missed these posts earlier, or we could have saved a few pages of discussion....

I forgot I made them, actually.

Sorry ^-^;

[forbiddanlight]

FL: Do you feel that Chaco's and Konowa's...questionable posts in support of a DB lynch are a misunderstanding/failure to understand the arguments for the wagon, or do you find them to be opportunistic scum?

This is a good question.

I'm not entirely sure to be honest.

I hate to say it but I'd rather see DB flip and then decide whether those two are opportunistic.

Chaco IS more likely to be scum due to both claim and overall unhelpfulness

Also, unfortunately, a lot of this game seems to hinge on reads on Saber/ABR. His lynch, while not necessarily scummy, would give us a ton of information. On the other hand, it's lynching a player who's actually done very well today. I'd like everybody to comment on this idea, as I think that the results would be rather interesting.

Honestly, DB would be a better lynch. Slightly less information, but more of a read on ABR and saber, which will help with some of the information we'd get from his lynch.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd like to ask you about these two parts, specifically. Firstly, how do you get that his claim makes him scummy, considering that it was posted earlier that, generally, it is common for there to be two pro-town neighbors in a game?

I've actually not seen it that often. It's entirely possible, but not necessarily true. I'm not sure which way Kairyuu would go.

Second, I'm not sure I entirely follow your second statement. I think that you're saying that we would get less info from a DB lynch, but it would make a subsequent lynch of ABR better from an information perspective? I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of making two lynches for info reasons considering that we have no idea how many more lynches we have....

What I'm saying is that if we lynch DB, his alignment will be more telling on sABeR's. If DB is scum, then lynching sABeR is elementary (ew...setting up lynches :S), but if DB is town, sABeR is more likely to be town. I don't want to lynch sABeR for information at all. I want to lynch DB for both information and hopefully catching scum.

[forbiddanlight]

I see. That does make sense...I wouldn't be entirely opposed, especially since it would also give us a lot of info on Konowa/Chaco/Shotty....

That as well. Not sure if it'll give info on you or not. I'd have to reread your posts after his flip.

[forbiddanlight]

Well, I realize that it does put me in hot water if DB does flip scum. That being said, I'd hope that my posts stand up on their own.

Well, upon what I've read I feel you are more attacking the lack of reasoning from Chaco and the like rather than defending DB. But I'd have to reread that if DB flipped scum.

[forbiddanlight]

Forbs, how is my claim incriminating? Pro-town neighbors are far more common then let on, to my experience, masonries are more commonly involving varying alignments. So I do not see where you are getting that from. Support it if you would, because I do believe that is a rare occurrance.

In my experience masons are both town and neighbors mean one is scum. There has been maybe one subversion in the few times I've played with neighbors.

Hell, I stuck an SK in a three person neighbor group before.

[forbiddanlight]

Forbs, here's some wifom to mull over; Would I have claimed if I was a scum neighbor?

That's precisely it. It's WIFOM. I don't accept it as evidence either way.

[forbiddanlight]

Forbs, here's some wifom to mull over; Would I have claimed if I was a scum neighbor?

That's precisely it. It's WIFOM. I don't accept it as evidence either way.

Precisely why I did not offer it as fact, it's why I said mull over it.

I refuse. Rather, I already did and decided it was wiser to cast it out as null.

You bringing it up does NOT help your case

Overuse of smilies? Honestly? Seriously? Let me set off some scumbells for you, then.





















:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Unvote, Vote Netapolis

Because FL wasn't being opportunistic. He had an honest belief and clear understanding of why he felt that DB was scum. You, on the other hand, appear to me to have jumped on what you considered to be an easy wagon, then got caught with your pants down.

Also, profiency comes to mind with FL. Say he's nudging you on over to DB, which Im not ruling out, what would you do in this case?

Uh...guys?

/me looks at her gender icon :S

I know my avatar is manly but still...

Chaco is vastly increasing with scummy points with the "motive" conversation.

Yes, I have a motive. It's to find and lynch scum. What's your motive?

You are definitely testing the waters for something here and I don't like it.

Oh, yeah,

Unvote, Vote...Chaco

I want Doombunny lynched, but Chaco needs to be pushed at this point. I could honestly settle for either of them dying today.

[forbiddanlight]

FL: Apologies about the gender thing. Here's a coupon to let you refer to me by the wrong gender in one post. Cash value: 1/10000th of a cent.

Well, I know the Kamina glasses tend to make anyone manlier so yeah...

[forbiddanlight]

Just OoC what is the deal with the glasses? I've seen like a dozen people's avatars suddenly add them.

My fault. From this rulepost in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann

Rule of Cool) Put some damn Kamina glasses in your avatar. I don't care how you do it. Failure will result in me insulting you in every post of yours I see that doesn't have a Kamina'd avatar. This is a real rule.

[forbiddanlight]

Wow...Missed this post when I made the post above me. Want to talk about proof of scum? I'm convinced.

Why is that a tell?

[forbiddanlight]

Really, it's this last part. Threats are, in my experience, a scumtell.

Hmm, I guess.

[forbiddanlight]

SSK, this is more reasons to be voting you. Why exactly is asking for a prod scummy? I don't know crap about what you're doing or what you're thinking.

Looks like somebody...
*puts on Kamina glasses*
missed the joke.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH~

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, I've been noticing that conversations been lacking recently and most people are just posting 1 or 2 liners (I admit, I've been doing it too) lets try to pick it up a bit everyone!

One or two liners are fine. It'd be nice if more people were posting them though.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, in all seriousness...Does anyone have any reason why we shouldn't vote Chaco today? I think we're all pretty much in consensus, but nobody wants to go out on a limb and call for the rope.

ABR's reasoning niggles at me, but it could be WIFOM.

[forbiddanlight]

Chaco, ABR said that you weren't verbose and that pointed towards you being town. My point was that you are never verbose.

Actually, the point was that Chaco is fine with dying, as long as DoomBunny goes with him. He's less interested in surviving the day than getting Doombunny dead. Or so we are to believe

This argument cannot be town versus town, and I want to hear what others think on this matter.

Why not?

[forbiddanlight]

I doesn't feel so to me, but I'm less interested in my own thoughts, and would love to hear yours.

I want to know why it's impossible for this to be a town town argument?

I agree that it isn't or I wouldn't be voting you, but I want your take.

[forbiddanlight]

Why it can't be? As I said, to me, it doesn't feel as it can be.

That's not good enough.

Why does it feel like that to you?

Effectively, you are claiming Netopolis is scum. So first, outright admit that.

You have provided no supporting evidence for that. Please, do so.

[forbiddanlight]

Because the way he attacks is pushing for my lynch hard, when it isn't needed as so. The mere mention of me not getting lynched, and he jumps right back on.

And this is different from you pushing DoomBunny how?

I could only be claiming Netopalis is scum in the event that I am not scum. I said it couldn't be town versus town. That is not saying Net is scum, but it can allude to two facts. Either I am scum, or Net is scum. Effectively, I am giving you my consent to lynch me today, unless all suspicion of me is cleared. As that will only be a detriment to town in later days, and would rather be mislynched while that is still an option.

We assume that all players are arguing from the standpoint they are town. Are you planning to claim scum? Though yesterday that didn't work out too well.

[forbiddanlight]

No, I am not. I am saying you agreed that it could not be town versus town, and I said I hold you to that statement. Why to you, is it not town versus town? If, and when, I flip town, will you retract your statement?

Because I think you are scum. If you flip town, then I was wrong. It's that simple.

I don't see anything scummy about the argument, hence why I'm pushing you on the "not town vs. town" point.

What I see scummy is mostly your behavior overall this game.

[forbiddanlight]

Which spawned when?

Huh?

At any rate, my feelings mostly established themselves in the post I voted you in. You said a lot that rubbed me wrong.

[forbiddanlight]

Dammit you guys, I just spent the last hour reading TV Tropes thanks to you.

[forbiddanlight]

Honestly, I want DB to produce content.

I want your thoughts on every player in this game. You might be spared the rope today but if you want to continue to live, it would be advisable to post a DAMN good wall

On everyone.

[forbiddanlight]

Incidentally, ABR, I'd invite you to post a case on DB if you want to lynch him. I'm all for it if someone can give me a reason that's better than those for Chaco or SSK.

Nyeh, given DB's recent posts I'm about to switch my vote to be honest. Now that he's off the hook for the most part, have you seen him produce anything protown? Or just more noise?

[forbiddanlight]

Yeah, but Chaco's been bad too, as has MafiaSSK. All of our worst players are making their position worse.

Yeah, but I'm giving SSK a meta pass, sadly.

I haven't felt Chaco scummy til recently. I've felt DB scummy most of this game. I am perfectly fine lynching him.

Also, that reminds me. m_o, you claimed to control nazi vampires, right? I think I would like a nameclaim actually. There's something I want to do to/for you. I don't know what it does, but I have a feeling you'd make sense as the target if I have your name right.

[forbiddanlight]

A meta pass? He has over 1000 posts and has modded 2 games.

And he posts like this all the damn time .

[forbiddanlight]

Hmm. Maybe we should start a petition to get him limited until he improves.

I'm not one for legislating playstyles.

I have what could be considered an anti town playstyle at times, and I'd hate to be told to limit it.

[forbiddanlight]

Um... okay...
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with you using a power you don't know what it does on me.


I'm First Lieutenant Zorin Blitz, according to wikipedia, though my role pm only says that I'm Zorin Blitz.

Not who I was expecting. But fits your claim.

However, you're not the one I want (I don't think).

As for DB, that's a more decent post than the rest of his. On the surface I see nothing wrong with it. I would like DB's future posts to be of similar utility.

Now, if Chaco could do the same thing we could have some fun ^-^.

[forbiddanlight]

It'll probably be a few days before I can post. Massive workload. Sorry guys, I'll try my best in any free time I have to make that post.

Long as it's before deadline. If DB can do it I'm certain you can.

[forbiddanlight]

*puts a banana on a stool in front of you*

Chaco, tell me, do you know why I set that banana there?

Do you?

Figure it out.

Because you wanted to show Chaco an example of why you can't divine other people's motives?

/me is shot.

[forbiddanlight]

Votecount goes here. Also, check post 1280 for important info.

I think Kairyuu sucks for getting all serious'd about personal attacks .

(Kidding, of course)

I've been reading along but it's mostly been the same stuff we've dealt with for the past 10 pages. I see nothing convincing me to change my vote or anything I need to respond to. If I'm incorrect, please correct me.

[forbiddanlight]

Also, Forbs be a dear and share with us your current thoughts.

What thoughts? I think you're still scummy, I'm glad SSK is being replaced, I'm not ready to let DB off the hook.

Nothing has been said that really actively makes me want to change that. In fact, nothings been said that's worth responding to.

[forbiddanlight]

Then give something worth starting.

Any suggestions ^-^?

How about this? Someone needs to claim Major.

I wanna see if you are who I should target with my one shot ability. I don't know what it does but I hear it's REALLY powerful.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd probably say ForbiddanLight, as she's the only player that I don't see as a likely lynch tomorrow.

Fixed for you.

I don't see any Major claims, btw?

I'm using my ability before this day ends because I'm well aware I'm an attractive NK target at this point. As for things posted since my last post...I'll see about reading and responding to them sometime today.

[forbiddanlight]

FL,
Sorry about that. Also, if you're going to use your role, I'd recommend that you use it on SSK, since he's not been here and he's probably the only player that didn't see your request for claim.

Fair enough, I'll wait for his replacement just in case.

[forbiddanlight]

Actually you know what?

?: Doombunny

It just occured to me Integra is QUITE a valid target for a Shroedinger ability.

So, I'm targetting DB. Enjoy whatever it does :S.

[forbiddanlight]

So, uh, yeah. Who do we lynch now? I'm still in favor of Shotty, and Chaco is starting to push his way back up my list.....

We can still lynch DB. I have no idea what this ability will do.

[forbiddanlight]

Oh. I thought you were implying that it conferred a night ability on him. That still seems like the most logical result.

It's possible. It's just said that my ability does something, possibly powerful, if I target the right (unknown) person.

I can use it whenever I like.

[forbiddanlight]

Multiple times?

One shot. I was planning on waiting longer but...yeah.

[forbiddanlight]

So now we wait?

Yep. Given it's Kairyuu...

/me rolls her eyes

[forbiddanlight]

Well, that'd suck, yet be incredibly awesome at the same time.

What should I have done? Heck, be glad I didn't just fire it off my first post D1.

[forbiddanlight]

Also, I think FL is conf town.

How so? My random ability could easily be scum or town. Only me and Kairyuu know my alignment.

Unless I missed something?

[forbiddanlight]

Yeah but I know Kairyuu, and share his love for Schrödinger's cat.
I expect a character based on it to have some ability, and that its most likely pro-town.
I don't have evidence to the contrary, so I plan on treating you as conf-town.
I don't mean to say I actually know your alignment. Just that I think you're 99.9% likely to be town.

Fair enough I guess.

As it happens I have a soft spot for Shroedinger's Cat as well and was positively ecstatic when I got this role .

[forbiddanlight]

It does nothing.

I wasn't looking for DB it seems

So, he's free to be lynched now.

[forbiddanlight]

What? It does nothing? How do you know it does nothing?

Kai just told me.

[forbiddanlight]

Massclaim

Now.

I'm Shroedinger. Hi.

[forbiddanlight]

Oh, btw

Unvote, Vote Doombunny

[forbiddanlight]

Whoa,whoa, whoa. Why the massclaim? You can't just call for a massclaim. Justify it.

I can't without playing my hand.

Suffice it to say that I called "doing nothing" too early.

Kai sent me something.

[forbiddanlight]

Convenient. I want claims still.

[forbiddanlight]

EBWOP: The VC, not Chaco's claim.

Actually...nameclaims will do. Sorry, should have just said that.

[forbiddanlight]

That...that's much more palatable.

I had to think about it, sor-ry!

[forbiddanlight]

I believe ABR and Kanowa are the only ones who hadn't claimed previously, sans Forbs.

Oh yeah, fair point .

[forbiddanlight]

Also, you know me. I'm Integra. as said D1.

Yep, unfortunately not who I was looking for

[forbiddanlight]

Interesting...So, someone's actually claiming Seras....

I find it interesting as well

But carry on. I'm listening to Cool, The World Without Logos now and don't want to be interrupted.

[forbiddanlight]

I'm Alucard and my name claim will probably require a full-claim since everyone thinks it's an SK role, /sigh.

Unvote, Vote Shotty to the Body

HE CLAIMED IT! FUCK YES! HE CLAIMED EXACTLY WHO I WAS LOOKING FOR!

Let's get into details!

I am Shroedinger, the Poison. After my ability failed, I was given special information. My ability was a suicide bomb mission. Basically, I was looking for Alucard. I KNOW that he is not working with the town.

Yes, odds are he's an SK. But I have mod confirmation he is anti town.

For all you flavor dudes out there, I'm sure you understand why I'd be the person who could take out Alucard, right? I won't post spoilers.

[forbiddanlight]

Uh yeah, I'm doing a Hellsing marathon atm. I'm at ep 4. No spoilers plzkthx.

The original series doesn't even GET into Millenium. And the OVA is at episode 6, and no where near where my specific events happen, though I've at least appeared there.

It's basically a manga thing that I had unfortunately spoiled for me.

[forbiddanlight]

Millenium?

Millennium is (as far as I know) the big bad organization in the manga and the OVA series. The original series diverges greatly at some point IIRC.

It still has the coolest OP ever.

[forbiddanlight]

Hah, this is why mass-claims ruin theme games. What a lame way to be confirmed anti-town. Shrug, its true, but you'll screw yourselves trying to get rid of me through lynching. Cool I killed Kikuchiyo on N1, so enjoy that.

Yeah, I figured it was something like that. But, since I already missed, well, obviously we have to try.

[forbiddanlight]

It's all about timing and now is not the right time. =P

I think he's bluffing.

This. If something bad happens, and he's not lynched, I think neto should vig him.

[forbiddanlight]

Oh, and also, I fail to see how this is any more artificial than, say, a cop investigation, especially since you could have just claimed someone like Walter Dornez or even Peter Ferguson.

I was expecting to have to guess at fakeclaims to be honest.

[forbiddanlight]

FL: You mentioned looking for the Major earlier. Is the Major a confirmed anti-town role as well?

No, I was guessing.

As I said, my role was basically "You don't know what this does. But it's AWESOME if you use it on the right person"

So I guessed Major was my target, and was way off. When I used it, targetting Integra (I figured it might have been the message that Shroe is sent to deliver at that point), I was also wrong, and got extra information instead of having an awesome ability go off (the suicide bombing of Alucard)

[forbiddanlight]

Reviver, you'll have to lynch me two days straight while the scum team whittles you down. I'm not really sure what would happen if Neto vigged me, it was implied in my role I should fear holy things, but idk if that was referring to FL.

Schroe is far from holy.

Let's lynch him and shoot him, honestly.

Or lynch DB and shoot him. I really could care less at this point.

[forbiddanlight]

I was actually thinking of lynching ABR due to the roleclaim. Right now, based on that I'm thinking that the scumgroup is ABR/Magnus, with Shotty as the SK.

I was thinking that Seras was probably scum as well...but ABR was less scummy

Well, whatever

Unvote, Vote Albert

[forbiddanlight]

That means that Magnus is the remaining member.....So this should work unless I'm roleblocked.

Wait, why is m_o the remaining member?

Because he's a true vam..

Oh.

[forbiddanlight]

Told you assholes, interactions from scum to another player are legit.

Sorry :/

[forbiddanlight]

Check out Illuminati mafia where I was SK killed 5-6 scum then got lynched by the town. Same thing with Beast Wars mafia where as SK I caught all the scum and got lynched again by the town because of a cop investigation. Life sucks as SK with cops around lol

Nyeh, cops really shouldn't get guilties on SKs IMO

No guys, there was just me and kik. We were the mafia and that's it.

Really? Interesting.

[forbiddanlight]

No, you're wrong, I'm not scum.

Well, if ABR is telling the truth we won't even see D3.

If not, well, we'll analyze the situation from there, but I'd have to lean scum on you.

[forbiddanlight]

Ironically enough I was going to shoot FL assuming I made it through the day.

That's nice to know. Any reason outside of me being supposedly pro town?

[forbiddanlight]

You posted early on D1 that you thought Alucard was an SK as a gut feeling, so that would've made you hard to convince if I did have to claim him later in the game and you were blatently pro-town.

Heh, I see, I actually forgot about that.

Yay for flavor guessing!

btw, I just watched a hellsing ova, came back to this game to see all the scum have claimed. I guess thats what happens. I watch the anime that the game is about and instantly win

Haha, of course. Hellsing does that. Is episode 6 fansubbed?

who are we lynching, then?

ABR

[forbiddanlight]

I'm 19 and have no strong opinions about ABR really. Though I lean towards liking him because he does random stuff.

What does this mean?

[forbiddanlight]

Obviously if you have no strong opinion about me it's because we don't know each other very well, so you don't really count in my theory.

That works.

Though I remember hating on you in an earlier game. But that was because you were attacking me like mad for no real reason. I forget the game.

[forbiddanlight]

Meh, I really need to learn to stop taking Mafia so personally as well...It's hard since attacks are so much more personal here than they are in other forms of debate.

You only think that because you are an inebrated derpcicle that fails at life forever. And you smell bad.

It means you're ready to be 20+ !!

YAY!

[forbiddanlight]

I'm not as think as you drunk I am!

Seriously, I actually don't drink, oddly enough...

Drunken insults are still fun nonetheless ^-^

[forbiddanlight]

Well, I'm happy I came off as protown, and my role ended up breaking the game...but I kinda feel bad that I was like, completely off on who was scum at the end :S.

And, in fact, was rarely on scum :S.

[forbiddanlight]

2. What you could have done was to provide safe claims during the game to Shotty. Or, not have bastard roles like FL's to begin with.

Yeah, as I told Kai after Shotty claimed, I was like "Um...didn't he have a safeclaim?"

Well, anyway, since apparently I've finally gotten decent at coming off as reasonably pro town, I guess what I want is advice on how to actually scumhunt, lol.

[forbiddanlight]

OH YEAH~

Looker! Get in here NOW and explain yourself!

[forbiddanlight]

lol, you thought that I was the SK? I guess I was a bit tunneled....but my defense of DB turned out to be right!

Honestly, after I found out I was after Alucard, I figured you were fakeclaiming him. If Shotty had claimed anything other than Alucard, and no one else claimed him, I'd have zoomed in on you probably, Neto, based purely on claim.

Yeah, I know, not very smart but fortunately it didn't work out that way.

[forbiddanlight]

Yeesh, kik wanted to kill me N1?

I was nowhere near the right track? Why was I so popular for NK ?

[forbiddanlight]

Yeesh, kik wanted to kill me N1?

I was nowhere near the right track? Why was I so popular for NK ?

Because you seemed pro-town. Being in endgame with you would have been scum vs. town instead of town vs. town.

True, but I was also manipulable, so keeping me around probably would have worked to your benefit.

[forbiddanlight]

True, but I was also manipulable, so keeping me around probably would have worked to your benefit.

Aaaand that's why we didn't kill you, only talked about it.

YAY!

Ok, not really, but yeah

[forbiddanlight]

Hey Neto, how do you think I can improve?

[forbiddanlight]

I think you can improve, but you have to pay your dues. Put the work in. Read theory. Make your own theory. Play in games and read games you're not playing. Immerse yourself in it. Your improvements are proportional to the time you put in.

So effectively you're saying I'm lazy?

And I'd have to agree with that assessment if so.

[forbiddanlight]

FL - I thought you were brilliant, but I'm kind of a newbie, so I don't know that my opinion is all that valid...

I was good at looking town. I did NOT, however, catch any scum on my own and actually was going in the wrong direction most of D2

But yeah, actually, I open the question about improvement to anyone ^-^. Any critiques, etc.?

[forbiddanlight]

I have a tendency towards swingy but balanced (or I strive for it)

I do a lot of 8:1:3 and it tends to work out balanced IMO. Then again, both games that have completed with that balance ended in scum win. On the flip side town was stupid in both of them.

[forbiddanlight]

Incidentally, FL, do you mind if I ask what part of VA you're in? I'm driving through the western panhandle on Saturday, and I thought we might meet for lunch or something....

Hehe, I see. And I'm pretty much in Southern Northern VA, around a place called Fredericksburg. You won't be anywhere close if I understand you properly :S.

[forbiddanlight]

Ah, yeah, I'm over near Roanoke. Been to Fredericksburg, though....Civil war battleground, if I recall.

Yeah, a bit. Rather boring though.

Though I just remembered. I'm in Arlington this Saturday.

AnimeUSA for the WIN!

[forbiddanlight]

@FL: Scumtells are largely bogus. Joking only "works" cause you're not advancing the game (which is a scummy objective). Look at motivation. Shotty had it right on the number though, kik's bussing, then backing off D1 was scummy. Look for people who know more than you should as vanilla. Scumhunting just takes time, and overall it goes a lot to "gut". I remember before I ever posted in a game here, I read one of ABR's games and he called out scum (and damn near got him lynched before being NK'd) for taking something that was pro-town and casting suspicion on it when there shouldn't be suspicion.

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. I agree there's no such thing as scumtells, I just never think about the big picture so it makes it harder on me

Woot! DC is an amazing city....Some people hate it, but I definitely loved the time that I spent there.

I really wish I lived in NOVA to be honest. But, it's alright