Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

Chaco · Post Post #925 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:57 pm

Revvin' that chainsaw.

I do know what the word means, you choose to ignore it. Which is pretty evident at this point. You're disagreeing with me at this point because you were the one invoked, no?

magnus_orion · Post Post #926 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:58 pm

@chaco: your play is so atrocious and anti-town right now, I can't possibly see it as scummy. Scum wouldn't play that way 'cause it would get them lynched. Start explaining yourself, or expect your points to either
a. be turned against you
b. be ignored completely.

Neither are desirable outcomes, town or scum.
Saying something is obvious makes the gigantic leap of faith and utterly ridiculous assumption that all people see things the same way, which is obviously not the case, since disagreements about things, including things unrelated to mafia, exist.

@Neto: I agree with a lot of your opinions about what constitutes pro-town play. I do not agree with your rage-voting each person who deviates from it. Some people just don't play pro-town. These people I consider to be poor players. But I don't think its scummy, and I like to reserve my vote for people I think are scum. If you actually think that chaco is scum from his play, please let me know, because I place both your vote on me when I replaced in and that vote just now in the same category of emotional knee-jerk.

@FL:

Why do you ask those two? Just curious

I expect three scum, just based off 12 players. One is dead
That leaves a hypothetical 2 scum
At the time my top suspects were shotty and konowa, and I like to hear my suspects opinions on each other, see if anything interesting seems to be exhibited by those parties.

Interesting...I hate to ask but can you elaborate?

My role pm states that I command armies of zombie nazis. (Which of course is a dream come true for me

)
It also says that unfortunately this fact does not help me in this game.
However, upon rereading my role pm, I realize now that although I know from what little research I bothered on my character that they are a normal vampire, it is not explicitly mentioned in my role pm.

I'm pretty sure I'm approaching a claim here... >_>

But make of it what you will. I've never really cared whether or not the mafia find out my role in most games, repeatedly dying early on in games does that to you, I guess.

Chaco · Post Post #927 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:01 pm

Sorry, I have limited time as I am currently on the 4th page of an outline of a research paper. So, honestly, I'm not putting much effort into this right now. I will soon though, which is why I suggested reading DB's ISO. Because I don't have the time currently. I can't waste two hours.

Kairyuu · Post Post #928 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:02 pm

The mod would like to point fobiddanlight to three posts before the end of page 34, and would like to point out that the votecount is almost exactly the same as it was then.

The mod would also like to point out that he is V/LA for much of this week, including now. Expect a real votecount no later than next Monday, no earlier than Wednesday night.

magnus_orion · Post Post #929 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:05 pm

so, rather than
a. explaining yourself
b. writing your paper/outline, then coming back later and explaining yourself

you decide to insist that you're reads are correct, that reading the same things that you read will cause us to draw the same conclusions, and that we should surmise your positions from reading these same things.

:\

Netopalis · Post Post #930 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:07 pm

Magnus: I won't lie, my vote on SSK is serious. That being said, I honestly have trouble differentiating between scum and just regular failtown. Still, you have to admit...SSK has gotten off really easy here - he's made several unjustified attacks without catching any flack because he's such a terrible player...I could definitely see him using this to his advantage.

Chaco: For the record, I'm a law student. I read 100+ pages per night and have written over 40 pages this semester in outlines of my notes, all in preparation for a series of 4-hour exams that I'll be taking in under a month.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #931 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:07 pm

I expect three scum, just based off 12 players. One is dead
That leaves a hypothetical 2 scum
At the time my top suspects were shotty and konowa, and I like to hear my suspects opinions on each other, see if anything interesting seems to be exhibited by those parties.

Fair enough. Draw any conclusions?

My role pm states that I command armies of zombie nazis. (Which of course is a dream come true for me Smile )
It also says that unfortunately this fact does not help me in this game.
However, upon rereading my role pm, I realize now that although I know from what little research I bothered on my character that they are a normal vampire, it is not explicitly mentioned in my role pm.

I...

think

I know who you are

Anyway, yeah, I'll

Unvote, Vote Doombunny

then. For someone who we've been crying to lynch all day, he sure has very few votes.

Netopalis · Post Post #932 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:10 pm

WHY?! WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!??!! WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR HIM?!! BECAUSE OF PEER PRESSURE?! BECAUSE YOUR MOM DIDN'T LOVE YOU ENOUGH!?!!!! GIVE ME A FREAKING REASON!!!!!!!!!!!

forbiddanlight · Post Post #933 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:12 pm

WHY?! WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!??!! WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR HIM?!! BECAUSE OF PEER PRESSURE?! BECAUSE YOUR MOM DIDN'T LOVE YOU ENOUGH!?!!!! GIVE ME A FREAKING REASON!!!!!!!!!!!

It's in my wall

Did you bother reading it at all?

Chaco · Post Post #934 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:12 pm

Netopalis wrote:Chaco: For the record, I'm a law student. I read 100+ pages per night and have written over 40 pages this semester in outlines of my notes, all in preparation for a series of 4-hour exams that I'll be taking in under a month.

And I'm a procrastinating high school student, who parties every weekend.

Anyways, Magnus, I will get to it. Just not tonight. Tomorrow. Promise. If not, you can...bitch at me I guess.

Netopalis · Post Post #935 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:13 pm

Magnus: If your character is who I think it is, then no, you are not a vampire...

magnus_orion · Post Post #936 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:14 pm

Netopalis wrote:Magnus: I won't lie, my vote on SSK is serious. That being said, I honestly have trouble differentiating between scum and just regular failtown. Still, you have to admit...SSK has gotten off really easy here - he's made several unjustified attacks without catching any flack because he's such a terrible player...I could definitely see him using this to his advantage.

Chaco: For the record, I'm a law student. I read 100+ pages per night and have written over 40 pages this semester in outlines of my notes, all in preparation for a series of 4-hour exams that I'll be taking in under a month.

I think I owe you an apology. For some odd reason, I seem to have thought you voted chaco after his stint of sillyness. I see now that this is not the case. I don't know where I got that impression. Still, I still agree with you on what constitutes pro-town play...
Not that that leads anywhere anymore...

Netopalis · Post Post #937 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:15 pm

Doombunny9 wrote:First of all, way to quad post SSK

SSK wrote:First off, why claim? Second off, no shit after you said you would use your action don't you think a roleblocker would focus on you?
I claimed yesterday because I was getting lynched. Also, I guess that no roleblocker did focus on me. -shrug-

SSK wrote:This is highly unlikely. I know that Kairyuu would not miss a single night action. He's highly responsible like that.
I would like to know how you find this scummy. If I was mafia, what would I gain from waiting a bit to give the info? (if you remember, Neto was the only one who posted in between my posts.)

Konowa wrote:I have to second fl on this. I really, really do not like this post and do not see town asking this question.
I asked this question as to find why they might be town as opposed to scum, the second part was to obviously try and figure out what faction the scum belongs to (Millenium, FREAKS, etc.). When we have information town needs to get as much of it as we can without letting have scum get too much which is why I included the part about "feel free to not answer this question" portion of it.

Konowa wrote:Since I am on the subject, I just remembered something Doombunny. I can not find the reasoning why you had sABeR (bad, I know) as your number one lynch, disregarding Looker as you said, at the end of D1. Can you show me where you provided reasoning? All I can remember is that you constantly said that you had saber listed as failtown.
Saber was always at near the top of who I wanted to lynch. I just felt that what everyone thought was scummy wasn't enough for a vote from me. The evidence for both is the same. I never 100% supported a saber lynch.

Ok, you cite this post plus a bit of backpedaling as for your reasoning. What exactly jumps out at you as making this post scummy?

Netopalis · Post Post #938 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:16 pm

Magnus: We simul-posted....I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a Chaco lynch, of course...but SSK is a higher priority target, I think.

magnus_orion · Post Post #939 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:23 pm

Netopalis wrote:Magnus: If your character is who I think it is, then no, you are not a vampire...

wikipe-tan

lied

to me?

No, I don't believe it, wikipe-tan would

never

lie to me.

Chaco wrote:Anyways, Magnus, I will get to it. Just not tonight. Tomorrow. Promise. If not, you can...bitch at me I guess.

Will do!

Netopalis · Post Post #940 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:24 pm

No, I'm using Wikipedia too...There are two characters that would work as you described...I haven't actually seen anything other than the regular series, so I haven't watched the part with Millenium in it

magnus_orion · Post Post #941 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:55 pm

FL wrote:Fair enough. Draw any conclusions?

Um...
Shotty and konowa's exchanges suggest that IF konowa is scum, konowa is not afraid to bus, and in fact the sudden vote change suggests this, though it doesn't guarantee it, but if I'm right about Shotty, his hesitation to call konowa on the same chainsaw he called on me definitely fits with scum hesitation that is more commonplace when faced with the dilemma of commenting directly upon your scum partner's play.
But of course, this is my confirmation bias acting up.
What I really can draw as a conclusion is that this didn't disprove my theory, not that it's designed to, its more just casting a net to see if I can actually get lucky and confirm it.
Ideally they would be mutually hesitant to attack one another, or go at one another's throats for distancing, but they would both do the same thing to one another, because this suggests either protection or distancing that is mutually understood.

I suppose if one brought a (actually) strong argument for the other's townieness, I'd rethink my theory, because I think scum tend to avoid actually helping their partners because it makes them obvious as a group (same reason I think shotty's conclusions on ABR are wrong)

magnus_orion · Post Post #942 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:03 pm

actually I didn't pay it much mind when they both went back for reread, but now that I reread it, they both were initially hesitant, weren't they?
Actually, yeah, I'd need a shotty lynch to confirm it, but it does strengthen the idea that konowa is scum in my mind.

Netopalis · Post Post #943 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:29 pm

While we're waiting for Chaco's latest brilliant insight, you all might want to watch the following video:

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail10.html

Doombunny9 · Post Post #944 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:43 pm

Chaco wrote:Last thing you just wrote was also scummy.

1. You invoke Net
2. "You're no better than SSK."

Deafening scum bells.

And yet you comepletly ignore what I asked for...

Magnus wrote:@chaco: your play is so atrocious and anti-town right now, I can't possibly see it as scummy. Scum wouldn't play that way 'cause it would get them lynched. Start explaining yourself, or expect your points to either
a. be turned against you
b. be ignored completely.

He's not scummy because he's scummy? This is very much WIFOM. If someone is scummy theres no "but he can't possibly be that scummy if he's scum" scummy is scummy.

Also, about Magnus's claim. I do think I know who he is. However, he is not a vampire (unless I'm wrong). I do think that he would be in the game though so for now. I beleive his claim.

magnus_orion · Post Post #945 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:33 pm

DB, I can tell you that you are thinking of the wrong person, for 2 reasons

Also, anti-town =/= scummy.

And its not wifom because we have heads that can think and we all know chaco is more likely to be lynched by the average town than not, so scum wouldn't behave that way.
It is not equally beneficial. There's no wifom about it. I can provide evidence of how silly the "that's not true, that's wifom" argument works for this particular scenario.

Netopalis · Post Post #946 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:53 pm

I guess, though, that I am sort of worried for the future of this site....bad players not being lynched because they're bad players makes bad players win more, making bad play good....my brain hurts....

magnus_orion · Post Post #947 (ISO) » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:33 pm

Netopalis wrote:I guess, though, that I am sort of worried for the future of this site....bad players not being lynched because they're bad players makes bad players win more, making bad play good....my brain hurts....

This is what is called "slippery slope logical fallacy" If one thing happens, it will inevitably lead to this terrible thing, which isn't true (the inevitable part, anyway)
You forget that over time players leave and join the site, so the ratio of good to bad players is kept to a pretty good constant, (assuming that players don't merely "gain experience" and become better but actually can start out good, which I think is a fair assumption)
Also, you assume that winning more games makes it good, which I'd also disagree with

Though there's nothing wrong with thinking about how the smaller parts effect the whole.

But enough about mafiascum as a whole, our objectives deal with this game.

Konowa · Post Post #948 (ISO) » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:26 am

magnus, I am going to have to burst your bubble. I am Milennium. Start looking elsewhere.

Doombunny9, post 918 wrote:If I remember correctly, there was only one other person on kik at that time.
I don't see how it really matters if I keep my vote on or not just as long as a larger bandwagon didn't form.

This is what I am talking about. To me it seems that you had already determined that should a kikcuchiyo wagon take off you were going to un-vote. Un-voting with the sole purpose being that it is a large wagon is scummy to me. You were not even going to take into consideration what other points might have been brought up against kikcuchiyo. I read this, as I stated earlier, as scum trying to stay off their buddy's wagon.

Doombunny, you have stated several times now that you found saber scummy, but just not for the reasons that everyone else did. Now, I might fail at reading, early morning and no coffee yet, but I can not find any reasoning of your own of why you found saber scummy.

If I am adding correct, again early morning and no coffee yet, Doombunny is at L-1. I am willing to hammer. However, there are still some questions of my own that I would like answered before I do this.

forbiddanlight · Post Post #949 (ISO) » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:52 am

magnus, I am going to have to burst your bubble. I am Milennium. Start looking elsewhere.

Wait a minute!

When did we confirm that Millennium was town? All we know is that some millennium MEMBERS exist in the town. This does not make me feel good

If I am adding correct, again early morning and no coffee yet, Doombunny is at L-1. I am willing to hammer. However, there are still some questions of my own that I would like answered before I do this.

Wait, what?

The last votecount says he has one vote. I added one vote...have there been others I missed?