Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, I will catch up today after I have breakfast.

[forbiddanlight]

DB post 758 reminds me why I want to lynch him again.

Shotty 774: Eh, I guess I see your argument, I try not to make one solid block a faction in my games.

SSK 779: Seriously? DB was bad, but that was pretty bad too...

m_o 784: Why do you ask those two? Just curious

Chaco 789: That's a very good point.

Net 790: I'm not sure I agree with that line of logic.

DB 802: Backpedalling...I also hope that claim at the end is sarcastic.

DB 809: Mafia, srs bizness

Net 810: I'm sure I've posted it before. Just go into my old D1 posts.

ABR 815 has a good point about jokes at this stage

/me sighs

DB, you are quite erratic, you never seem to commit to a stance that you actually back up, you spend more time making noise than actual signal and reads on people, and overall you haven't been assisting the town at all.

Shottu 827: Could you repost this case for me?

@fl - What are your thoughts on Shotty?

I remember thinking he was town before. What's he trying to do again? (I'll admit, the walls of text are ironically hard for me to read, despite me posting one now)

Shotty 832: I must not have been paying attention. What kik connections

DB 844: Hate to admit it but...that's kinda his meta I think

Net 848: That's...a curious theory...

m_o 850: Interesting...I hate to ask but can you elaborate?

SSK 855: Well, to be fair, this would change the wisdom of voting DB

Konowa 859: Reasoning would be nice. What ties DB and shotty together?

I will have to admit Net has a point. No one is providing any reasoning on DB...this makes me feel a little worse about his odds of being scum

Chaco 885: Why is he scummy though?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=285

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeey...I recognize that game!

Net 890: Actually, I'm finding you somewhat town for this. Apologizing about chainsawing decreased that town read however.

Chaco 893: Is joking all most of it? I don't like that. Though I agree on a couple of your points. Erraticness, etc. I don't think you go far enough

And that's that.

I'm still for a DB lynch, Chaco is also getting up there, to be honest.

I want a

Votecount, Mod. Now

[Netopalis]

FL: While you're here, I was wondering - what's your read on SSK?

[forbiddanlight]

FL: While you're here, I was wondering - what's your read on SSK?

Meta says he's useless town, probably.

[Konowa]

Shotty, why are you pursuing sABeR for connections through kikcuchiyo, but not magnus? If you are going to pursue connections

through

confirmed scum why are you not pursusing all of them? This is my problem with what you are doing. You are only presenting half of the options available. Pursuing connections

through

confirmed scum, rather than

to

confirmed scum lands you more false leads and nose-deep in WIFOM. It is also easier for scum to push bad cases due to these "connections" and that is what I think you are doing. Hell, you are not even recognizing and stating that your case is WIFOM.

You, also, have been tunneling on sABeR all game and not scum-hunting in what I believe to be a pro-town manner. You claim you hunt scum through motivation, but I hardly see any of that until recently. Up until a couple of days ago, you seemed plenty content to repeatedly state that sABeR is scum due to connections

through

kikcuchiyo. I fail to see how this is hunting for motivation.

You came out guns blazing on Chaco being scum. Then, after magnus calls you out on the bad logic, you backpedal quick.

---

Net, here is why I find Doombunny scummy.

I agree with you [Konowa] for your reasons but I don't think it's enough for a (real) vote from me. I don't really think anything of it at this point.

If a large bandwagon forms I will take my vote off though.

Note: Doombunny's random vote was on kikcuchiyo at this time.

Unless some bad reasoning was presented, which he did not state was the case, I do not see any reason why town should have to remove their vote from a wagon. Wagon's present town with numerous bits of information and move the game forward. The fact that he would remove his vote from a wagon, just due to the fact that a wagon formed on kikcuchiyo reads like scum trying to stay off his buddy's wagon.

Throughout the entirety of D1, he constantly listed saber as failtown. Now, at the end of the day sABeR is his number one scum? Reading his D1 over, this reads more like a policy lynch to me. This reads like scum keeping an option open on someone who is considered scummy by many.

@forbiddan and Shotty Shotty-I noticed you haven't even said anything about my claim. Did you even see it?

I can not fully extrapolate on why this makes me twitch, but re-presenting his claim like this just looks like scum saying "Look at my town claim!".

Now his scum reads seem really convenient at this point in time. Unless I am misreading him, correct me if I am wrong, he [Doombunny9] is voting SSK due to playstyle, finds Chaco scummy for similar reasons even though he is helping out the town, and sABeR for reasons that everyone knows. This just seems like a really, awfully convenient scum list.

---

Konowa 859: Reasoning would be nice. What ties DB and shotty together?

Reasoning would be nice. However, if I presented that reasoning right now that would give both Shotty and Doombunny the opportunity to stop whatever it is that I have caught. This way keeps them both oblivious to what it is.

More Shotty votes.

[forbiddanlight]

Reasoning would be nice. However, if I presented that reasoning right now that would give both Shotty and Doombunny the opportunity to stop whatever it is that I have caught. This way keeps them both oblivious to what it is.

I am unsure if I like this, but will accept it and assess this statement when you do reveal what it is.

[Konowa]

You should vote fl.

[Netopalis]

Ok, now we have something to work with....I can understand why someone would see that as scummy, although I do personally disagree. Someone with a random vote on somebody who is gaining a wagon that they disagree with is in a bit of a catch-22. They can either unvote and be seen as weak or waffling or they can stick with a lynch that they disagree with, which really, really feels wrong to a town player, especially that early in the game. Therefore, he tried to cut the baby in half here...Not take the vote off, but notify that he doesn't particularly like the wagon and won't stick with it.

That can be seen as scummy or not - I don't find it to be so, but I can see perfectly well why someone would find it to be that way. Still, I think that there are better reasons to lynch out there....

[Shotty to the Body]

Lol really? Calls me out on bad logic? I said when I placed the vote that I wasn't even sure and that I was placeholding my opinion so I couldn't be accused of bandwagoning the idea, I withdrew it after a reread because it wasn't correct. Magnus' speculation on neighbors usually being townie together had nothing to do with it, misrep ftl.

If I've found scum why hunt more until he is dead, why create a schism? I don't even think Magnus is scummy unless Saber flips scum and even then it's only one tell. I could list a whole possibilities chart but all that does is assist scum in guiding town opinion and none of it is even confirmed without an alignment. You're still ignoring the fact that the connections to Kikuchiyo are a CONFIRMATION of Saber's scuminess, not the whole fucking reason. You repeatedly say this even though it is untrue and I've said that they aren't the entire case. Go back through D1 and tell me Saber doesn't trip your scumdar, given that, explain to me how someone so scummy, saved from lynch by a scum is pro-town.

Every fucking case has WIFOM in it, for example, maybe I'm scum making that argument so you'll think I'm scum so I can turnaround and get you lynched. Maybe I'm town making a bad case to draw scum onto my wagon to identify them. Maybe I'm a PR trying to fly under the radar or draw out scum so I know who to use abilities on. There's a hundred possibilities in every case that you have to consider, you have to go with what is LIKELY which the things I posted ARE.

When I talked about motivation, I was talking about your failure to do so, you haven't mentioned one anti-town motivation for my reasoning there. I also love this sad move "I have info that makes two people scum but I can't tell you guys!" *One mislynch later* "Oops I guess that clears the other guy my info must've been wrong, -insert bullshit here-." If you aren't willing to post your supposed reasoning don't allude to it. Btw how could we possible 'stop' whatever you have during DAY where you could post it freely unless it's a pile of bullshit that we can argue against? Right, we can stop it because that's what it is and it won't stand the light of day in a real debate.

Obligatory request for more votes on someone made at the end of each post goes here.

[forbiddanlight]

You should vote fl.

Not voting til I get a votecount.

I will probably be voting DB however.

[Konowa]

I am not sure you are completely following me Netopalis. Re-read the quote I posted. Doombunny specifically stated that if a large wagon formed he would un-vote. What is inferred here is that

despite

reasoning that may have been presented later on, he would un-vote for the sole reason that a wagon was forming. That is why I find it scummy.

[Chaco]

I do weigh all of my options. And tunneling? Hardly. In fact, you seem to be tunneling on me more than anyone else. Also, only 3/9 people think I am pro-town or neutral (Neto, Shotty, Magnus if I'm correct). I beleive Netos claim, I do think Shotty is scummy, and I haven't really heard enough on Magnus to get a sold read on him but I'm leaning town. So other than Shotty I kinda do have to get on people who are on me. and joked like crazy? If you look back I only made a joke in 1 post in D1 I beleive. Besides. Just like Neto says, how is humor a scumtell?

The above is Doom's most recent post, within this post he attempts to buddy. Also, this post is scummy as hell. He does the classic,"Can't be me! Must be you!" type deal.

I kinda do have to get on people who are on me.

I kinda do have to get on people who are on me.

I kinda do have to get on people who are on me.

Does anyone else not find this scummy to high hell? I'm not going through and highlighting all the main points of each post. But I will pick out scummy snippets of posts later in the night. But for now, I'll leave you with this.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah fuck it. Let's lynch DB. He didn't even post any good content, just bad OMGUS.

@Shotty: I'll get to your post tomorrow.

[Konowa]

Shotty, that is not what I was referring to when I asked why you are not pursuing magnus due to connections through kikcuchiyo. What I was referring to is kikcuchiyo's odd play early D1 when she made a fuss about fuzzy's (later replaced by magnus) vote. She calls fuzzy out on his bad logic then suddenly drops it. If you are looking at connections

through

confirmed scum, why are you not pursuing this also? What I think you are doing is saving it in your pocket, so later on you can pull it out and say "Look, connections!".

[Konowa]

Shotty, who else is scum?

[Netopalis]

Konowa: I did reread it....still sounds to me like he doesn't want to be part of a large bandwagon due to a random vote. The later quote that Chaco posted is a bit better...but it does make sense in a way, considering that all town players know their own alignment and do not know any other living players' alignment.

Konowa, post 2: At the risk of being seen as scummy for making a joke....would you consider that to be FUZZY logic? But I digest....That is an interesting point about Kikuchiyo...I had forgotten about that. I'll go back and reread that portion. (Incidentally, I know it's digress...Family guy quote)

[Konowa]

Triple-post.

---

And Shotty, just so we do not have to play the "Well, you did not ask that question" game, please provide reasoning when you list who else is scum.

[Chaco]

Net, it makes perfect sense, in all honesty. What aren't you getting about it?

[Doombunny9]

Note: Doombunny's random vote was on kikcuchiyo at this time.

Unless some bad reasoning was presented, which he did not state was the case, I do not see any reason why town should have to remove their vote from a wagon. Wagon's present town with numerous bits of information and move the game forward. The fact that he would remove his vote from a wagon, just due to the fact that a wagon formed on kikcuchiyo reads like scum trying to stay off his buddy's wagon.

Kik was my RVS stage vote. If a bw was going to be on her than I did not want to be part of it. I did not find kik scummy.

Throughout the entirety of D1, he constantly listed saber as failtown. Now, at the end of the day sABeR is his number one scum? Reading his D1 over, this reads more like a policy lynch to me. This reads like scum keeping an option open on someone who is considered scummy by many.

I don't see why so may people are having trouble comprehending this but I'll say it again. Saber was scummy. However, because of the horrible reasons at that point I wouldn't mind passing him off as fail-town. This did not mean that I actually thought he wasn't scummy.

Also, if they're (SSks and Chacos) playstyles are really that bad. They really need to change. Town can't get anywhere with one-line posts that barely if at all contribute to the game.

Ok, now we have something to work with....I can understand why someone would see that as scummy, although I do personally disagree. Someone with a random vote on somebody who is gaining a wagon that they disagree with is in a bit of a catch-22. They can either unvote and be seen as weak or waffling or they can stick with a lynch that they disagree with, which really, really feels wrong to a town player, especially that early in the game. Therefore, he tried to cut the baby in half here...Not take the vote off, but notify that he doesn't particularly like the wagon and won't stick with it.

If I remember correctly, there was only one other person on kik at that time. I don't see how it really matters if I keep my vote on or not just as long as a larger bandwagon didn't form.

The above is Doom's most recent post, within this post he attempts to buddy. Also, this post is scummy as hell. He does the classic,"Can't be me! Must be you!" type deal.

Um, what? So there are really two major things I can do here. #1, I could find reasons that YOU are scummy (you are my #2 or 3 choice and my #1 isn't talking much) but be called scummy for THAT. Or I could just leave you alone but that doesn't really help me much. Also, I have no idea why you were calling me out for scummy things I did when you did the exact same things.

Does anyone else not find this scummy to high hell? I'm not going through and highlighting all the main points of each post. But I will pick out scummy snippets of posts later in the night. But for now, I'll leave you with this.

It seems to me that you are only picking out the things you want to hear. Read it in context. I said that I had to get on people that were on me because the majority of town was on me and the people that wern't on me looked townie to me (with the exception of Shotty).

[Chaco]

Last sentence proves my point again.

[Netopalis]

How does it prove it, Chaco? I'm really not getting what grave sin DB has committed....although at this point, I'm tempted to hop on the bandwagon JUST SO THAT YOU GUYS WILL TALK ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE. Seriously, it's like you guys are direct marketers trying to impress upon people the value of the new DoomBunny lynch...

[Doombunny9]

Last sentence proves my point again.

I agree with Neto here again. I don't know what the hell you're trying to tell me here yet you just go "See, that was scummy!" In the future, tell me what's scummy so I can defend myself. If you don't, you're no better than SSK.

[Chaco]

Last thing you just wrote was also scummy.

1. You invoke Net
2. "You're no better than SSK."

Deafening scum bells.

[MafiaSSK]

I need to read. Will post in a day or so.

[Netopalis]

Scummy. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.