Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Doombunny9]

Random.org states that I should

/vote:kikuchiyo

so that is what I do.

Al hail random.org

[Doombunny9]

forbiddan, you're voting the mod?

[Doombunny9]

Why would Fuzzy be upset with forbiddans vote?

Fuzzy voted because he didn't like people voting themselves in RVS (which forbiddan was not doing), a random vote, or a combo of both. I do not see why Fuzzy would not forbiddans vote.

PS Archon- I clicked and did not get a free PS2. You lie to me. Lyng=scum.

FoS Archon

[Doombunny9]

Fuzzy-Are you upset with forbiddans vote?

As for Archons vote, I don't think it's really scummy if it was just to get him out of RVS. Now if he was pushing to lynch himself well...I can see how that would be bad (exceptions are some of them which sShotty knows )

[Doombunny9]

Ending a RVS with no RVS material gets rid of any possibility of scumslipping or scummy playing

Um, what? People can't be scummy on d1 if there's a quick RVS? Please explain. I do think RVS is important (due to reasons you've stated) however, I don't think it's game changing, no scum finding, OMG important.

The randomness of the RVS stage will not contribute that much on the game. There will most likely be no lynch as a cause of it and not a lot of scummy behavior in it (unless there's really stupid mafia).

Also, everyone on the mods BW please read the title of the last votecount. If you want a no lynch than please keep your votes on. Otherwise, TAKE THEM OFF!

[Doombunny9]

[quote="Looker]O, and another question: Does anyone in this thread consider the word "scum" an insult?[/quote]

It depends. If you mean scum as in you think I'm mafia then that is not an insult to me. If you mean it in a epersonal sence then yes I do. I assume you mean the first one so no, I don't take it as an insult

It said lynching a being that is not part of the game will result in a no lynch. That doesn't mean that the mod is not in the game.

You have a point . Technacally the mod is a part of the game...However, I know what he means by "Lynching a being not part of the game will result in a No Lynch" so I'll keep my vote off for now (even though I really want to)

[Doombunny9]

I think that while we do have 3 people who are scum, the three voting Kairyuu aremost likley not scum. I remember when we were lovers too.

How would you know if there are 3 scum in the game or not?

As for the random voteing stage: I hate it and like to get through it but it is iimportant.While Archon's point is correct skipping the random voting stage will give us little to talk about until a bandwagon forms (thats not on the mod). I noticed we're not really talkiing about anything major or maybe it's just me but I sure feel that way.

[Doombunny9]

I don't. Thats why I added ''I think,'' which in certain uses is synonymous with "I believe" like in this case.

Thought you meant you thought that the 3 people voting the mod wern't scum. Ah well, I'd rather not get into an arguement over something as pointless as this.

Anyway, this game is moving rather slowly so lets try to get some good convo in here soon!

[Doombunny9]

Ok, so we're missing these people-Netopalis, and Amished

@Those two-What do you think about what happened so far? What do you think about Archon's self vote?

And to everyone else-Is there anyone right you you have a good scum reading on so far. I don't personally and everyone seems neutral to me with only a slight feeling of town/scum.

[Doombunny9]

Doombunny, what do you think of my kikcuhiyo vote?

I agree with you for your reasons but I don't think it's enough for a (real) vote from me. I don't really think anything of it at this point. If a large bandwagon forms I will take my vote off though.

Doombunny: this is your cue to act exceedingly scummy

Oh look, I am scum! May the doctor please claim so I may kill it. (please doctor don't actually claim) I will now randomly votehop and vote myself three times

unvote
vote forbiddan
unvote
vote konowa
unvote
vote doombunny9
unvote
vote doombunny9 (again )
unvote
vote Michael Jacksons monkey
unvote
vote doombunny9
unvote
vote your mother (this is where my votes staying)

Ok, I act normal again.[/u]

[Doombunny9]

Ok, chaco, forbiddan, and kikuchiyo are you only voting saber/me for the jokes we made? If so that seems like a very horrible reason and I will give my FoS out to you for that. If not I want all of the reasons you have for voting us.

Why is it bad?

The reason it is bad is because the only reason he's voting saber (at least from what he told us) is because of the joke he made. Maybe I'm just dim but I'm pretty sure a joke isn't scummy.

Mod: Can we get a prod on Amished?

[Doombunny9]

I would say that saying you aren't going to vote someone for the rest of the game would be an anti-town thing to say at the very least, regardless of whether you are joking or not.

How would it be scummy if it was a joke?Jokes are fine just as long as a person doesn't have too many that it interferes with the game (which by the way saber is close to doing) I do want to know if that "not going to vote for the rest of the game" thing was a joke or not. I assume it's a joke but I just want to be sure.

[Doombunny9]

Ok, quick post time cuz I don't have that much time to comment right now. I'll give a better post tomorrow.

Amished-Is there anyone you think is scum/town at this point yet?

Chaco-Who are the people who are detrimental to the town?

Chaco again-Does sabers defence change your veiws on saber?

[Doombunny9]

Based on 100, Saber is Doom's scumbuddy. As such, I think Saber is trying to keep a more powerful role alive by not voting for him. Net's first post is why I think he's scum, as well as not participating at all either.

Wait what, saber made a joke so that makes us scum? Expand.

Unvote
Vote: Netopalis

And then you switch your vote so you can hop on the bandwagon.

You're all scum, so it doesn't matter who I really vote for. Net's 144 is scummy enough to make me the most confident that he's scum out of all 3 of you. No suspects = scum. There's plenty to go on.

We're all scum? What makes you so sure of that. Unless you have some godly power that lets you know who all scum are at the beginning of the game or are maf yourself (and are faking other people as scum) I don't see how you can be so sure about how we're all scum.

No suspects =/= scum unless it's really late in the game. When the game started and we were all random voting did we have any real suspects? No, of course we didn't so that makes us all scum?

[Doombunny9]

Nice triple post

At a glance, Forb and Konowa haven't posted a lot, and are being the "best" lurkers.

Do you find them scummy for lurking?

[Doombunny9]

Any time past RVS you can have suspicions. You don't have to vote for those suspicions, but you certainly have them, unless you're scum.

Scum do have "suspicions" I put that it quotes meaning that they will claim to have suspicions to get people lynched. Scum gains nothing from not voting.

I've already explained why joking is scummy.

Ok, I must've missed that part. Can you please tell me what post it was so I can find it. I can't find it by skimming through.

[Doombunny9]

The fact that you're worried that an RVS would look scummy and OMGUSy also pegs you as scum. Thank you again.

Ok, I do have to agree with this. Saber- Why are you so scared of OMGUSing in the RVS?

[Doombunny9]

Nevermind my last question as you just answered it. It does seem you don't like to OMGUS still though...

[Doombunny9]

You still have not said why this is super scummy. You just keep saying that it is. So, I don't have any suspicions...big whoop, ya wanna fight about it?

He said it was scummy because you didn't think anyone was scummy in your post. I agree though. Big whoop. No suspects =/= scummy

[Doombunny9]

Yes, but town always have suspicions. Scum have a harder time putting them down as it hurts their ability to mislynch. If they don't post suspicions early, they can hop on and add whatever they want later on and the town will have nothing to go on to say that they're backtracking to a mislynch when it's obvious that they are. Town always have logical reasons for their vote switching, and can put them out at a moments notice. It's another thing scum have trouble with.

But town doesn't always have "You have to be scum" suspicions. Sometimes town only thinks people are slightly scummy or slightly townish.

Also Amished, What if someone made jokes while progressing the game? Would you still think that would be scummy?

[Doombunny9]

Ok, theres a lot to read through but I'll try to make this post quick. @Sabers question- Amished is my #1 choice because of his bad and unsupported reasons for voting but he seems to have settled down so I'm thinking he's getting better at this point. Second would be you tied with all the semi lurkers (the people that post but not too much or people with really small posts). Finally would be Neto (see below)

This is the only question I found directed to me but I did skim through a few so if I missed your question than please ask me again.

As for Netos claim. I'm skeptical about it because of it being on the rules page so it could be used as a reason to get people to beleive him but I trust him for now. I'll still be watching him closly though and I'll treat him like anyone else.

Finally, I don't know why I didn't notice this earlier but I still have my RVS vote on so I will

unvote

for now.

To Amisheds question (about any resources I have)-I haven't seen any of the shows or read the anime but I do have a good resource I can check if I need to see something so that shouldn't be too much of a problem for me.

Also Neto, I think you should shoot on the day before expected mylo/lylo becasue it gives us maximum chances to hit mafia without the possibility of losing.

Anyway, I'd post more now but I have to leave, I'll get back in about 2 hrs

[Doombunny9]

One more quick thing, I don't like how forbiddan thinks neto is "almost clear". People are either clear or not and Neto is far from clear.

[Doombunny9]

unvote
vote Fuzzy

Any reason for the Fuzzy vote looker?

[Doombunny9]

So if we have a NK immune miller vig, do you thinkwe have any of the other stuff in Rule 19 (cults, jesters etc.) This question is to everyone btw

[Doombunny9]

Off the subject of claims what does everyone think of Saber and Doom? What do people think of Amished? What do people think of the lurkers?

Saber seems more of a fail town (no offence) to me and I while I see why people want to lynch him I don't agree with parts of it.
Amished seems scummy to me for his unsupported attacks on me, saber, and Neto earlier.
The lurking isn't a very big scumtell to me but some of the people are. Looker for example doesn't post very much and when he does it is usually very short and he doesn't explain his actions such as his latest vote.

Anyway, I'll be thinking about who I should put my vote on and hopefully get back to you soon

(by the way Looker, I still what your reasoning for voting Fuzzy)

[Doombunny9]

@Doom: What don't you agree with that's been brought against saber; or, to put it another way, what have you seen that seems pro-town?

He has been helping the town recently and before he was making jokes. Not really scummy to me.However, he wasn't helping town out much which is why I labeled him as Fail Town.

Also, stop saying that my attacks were unsupported. Clearly enough other people saw the support so since you don't see it doesn't me it's true.

I didn't really mean it as unsupporded really. Weak is a better word. I don't really see how joking and being gone for a while is enough alone for a hard vote. A question for you though- What do you think of the lurkers?

[Doombunny9]

Amished- What I meant when I asked you what I thought about the lurkers are, do you think their scummy or to ask it better, do you think they're more scummy than other people because of the lurking.

He's been helping, but not helping. Got it.

Read my post again

Recently he has been helping town
Earlier he was fooling around and not helping town.

I could have made it more clear though I guess. The last part I meant "he wasn't helping town out much in the game before which is why I labeled him as Fail Town." He is still scummy to me because of fooling around before, I just don't think that reason alone is enough for a lynch and he is earning town points back for contributing more to the game.

Which reminds me. Doom, did I promise you an explanation or did I just say I would respond to your inquiry regarding my vote on fuzzy? If it's the latter, the response is ::shrug:: dunno , but if it's the first one, then I'll get back to you on that

It was just a question I asked, not a promise or anything. Also, I second Amished question: Why Archon?[/b]

[Doombunny9]

@Doom: What of Saber do you classify as helping the town? Does his earlier unhelpfulness outweigh his recent helping? Is he fail-town or still scummy? Scummy-town?

He's been generally helping town (asking good questions, giving good descriptions and explaining actions etc.) Starting at post 123. His unhelpfulness does not outweigh his recent helping but he is redeeming himself. He is scummy of course but I'm saying he's just a bad townie because joking around does not make me feel he needs to be lynched.

How does that correlate to me? I was on vacation, but am I helping the town or hurting the town now?

what is "that"? I'd answer it if I knew what you were talking about

Who else has been unhelpful to the town in your eyes, if anybody?

Looker, Fuzzy, and Chaco. They have been posting low content posts and haven't been posting much at all. Looker seems even more scummy because of his seemingly random votes of Fuzzy and Archon. He seems to also be avoiding the questions about these votes (the only thing he said about these votes was a responce to the Fuzzy vote- "I don't know" and on archon- "it's kinda a stock market thing" whatever thats supposed to mean ) So I

FoS Looker

[Doombunny9]

@Doom: Is he (saber) scummy or is he townie. He can't be "scummy of course" but also a townie. Does it matter that he only stopped joking after being voted for it?

I said he was scummy, I never said I thought he was scum. When I someone is scummy it means that they are acting like scum, not nessesarily that they are scum. While he isn't comepletly cleared of being scum I feel that joking isn't enough to get a vote from me. As for your second question: I never really noticed that before, however it may have just been pressure and a sign to him that the game is getting serious. Do I think that's really it? Probably not but I want a solid case on him before I vote him.

The "that" is at my first question. How do you feel about me? Unhelpful, townie, scum putting on a good act, what? Are my incessant questions helping or hurting?

I feel that you may be scum or at least scummy (see before). Your attacks on people with weak evidence seems really scummy to me but, like saber you are becoming less scummy to me with your more helpful posts. Some of your questions are good but others just seem like fluff that doesn't really help or hurt the town.

Why do you not want to vote for somebody unhelpful, and why did it take me asking you who was scummy for you to even FoS them (which is absolutely worthless in my opinion)?

Do you mean saber or Looker? If you mean saber than I already said, joking is not very scummy to me which is why I didn't vote for him and I did FoS him, just not in a post. If you mean Looker, I am getting close to wanting to vote for him, I just want to hear his defence first and I thought it was clear in my earlier posts that I FoSed him.

[Doombunny9]

Then who should be lynched?

I'm leaning on Looker myself but I'm still going to wait and hear more from him before I put a vote down.

So when do you vote someone for being scum? How do you determine that they are scum if people who "act like scum" can be town?

I vote for someone when I have good reasons to. Joking is Not a good reason. Maybe I wasn't so clear on this part but I've said it a lot before. Joking around is scummy. It is not lynchworthy. It seems like failtown to me because it was scummy but not scummy enough to get a vote from me.

Elaborate on this?

What more do you want me to say? Amished was attacking me, saber, and neo with weak points such as "You were joking around" and "You wern't here for a while". Lately he has been giving better arguements and helping town more. Some of his questions toward me were good with others such as the one I answered here "Are my questions good" seem like fluffy questions that have no point here.

[Doombunny9]

@Looker-Can you please give me a good explanation/defence of why you seemingly randomly voted Fuzzy and Archon and why you haven't been posting as much as you are now, when the pressure is starting to build on you? What you've said so far about it was pretty bad from my point of veiw and it's the only thing that can stop you from getting a vote from me.

[Doombunny9]

What is the likelihood of scum voting their scumpartner right off bat? As in the RVS?

Higher than you think. Scum will sometimes vote their scumpartner in the RVS to bus them and defend themselves later.

[Doombunny9]

I know it's weak but you know, that's what scum does sometimes.

[Doombunny9]

Ok, did we really waste that much time discussing scum bussing each other in the RVS This is not going to help us out at all.

Anyway

Can we get a prod on Fuzzy?

[Doombunny9]

@those not voting (Netopalis, fuzzylightning, Doombunny9, Konowa, Looker) What are your exact opinions on *both* Doombunny and Saber?

I think you know what I'm going to say about myself. As for saber I've already said so you can just reread but I'll summerize for you. saber from my point of veiw has been joking around and not contributing to the town until pressure was on him. I am willing to pass this off for fail-town though and I would be fine with a saber lynch. There are some other people I would prefer to lynch more though such as Looker.

So what, sabers seems like the lynch today and everyones on him. He's also getting replaced. If we do decide to lynch him instead of getting a replacement I would be fine to hammer but otherwise I will keep my vote off.

[Doombunny9]

Why are these three mentioned in this context, but not Archon?

I guess I just forgot him or something You can add him to the list.

Anyway, on one hand, if we ask for a replacement we lost all our leads on saber since the replacement can't explain for him but we get a claim. On the other hand, if we just lynch, we lose the claim but we don't need to make it more confusing. I don't know which one I'd rather have...

We still have yet to hear from Fuzzy and Archon.

[Doombunny9]

Well, since sabers the play today I'm going to

Vote: Saber

[Doombunny9]

OK, whats wrong with my vote? I already stated that if we were going to lynch saber (which it seemed we were going to do) than I would hammer rather than get a replacement. Everyone made it pretty clear at least up to this point that we were going to lynch him. "OK" I thought "Why not just skip the 'wait for hammer' phase and vote him now?" Which I did. I never did a 180. I think I made it pretty clear that I would rather lynch saber than get a replacement than lynch saber.

Anyway, since it's pretty clear that I'm going to be the lynch of the day (at least for now). Do you guys just want me to save you the wait and claim now?

[Doombunny9]

Doombunny, can you givbe me a summarization of the game please?

You want the short or long version? Short-We all RLed, Archon (the dude you replaced) self voted to bring game out of RVS. BWs soon piled on saber and me shortly after for joking. Amished came back from his V/LA to start more feirce attacks on us. BWs and stuff formed and people started to dissapear. saber and Amished started to play better and more people left or started to active lurk. thats pretty much it unless I'm forgetting something.

And, back to Saber we go.

Unvote; Vote: Saber

Why back to saber?

Neto-Are you planning on shooting tonight. My suggestion is to wait until we get a bit more info before you shoot (at least night 2 probably)

[Doombunny9]

Chaco-What made you feel like you're going to get the saber lynch now? Why not vote me anymore? If given the chance to hammer me, would you or would you keep pushing for saber?

[Doombunny9]

This is rediculous. What Amished, makes you so eager to want to lynch us all? (me, saber, looker) you're acting like you did when you came back from your V/LA. Also, since it seems as if I'm going to die (either lynched or NKed, that is, if Neto doesn't object) I see no reason why I shouldn't claim right now. Everyone ok with that? If there are no objections I'll be doing that soon.

[Doombunny9]

Why don't we wait for Neto to speak up about this matter? (his vig shots)

@Doom: I feel you're all scum for reasons I've provided in thread. If you'd actually like to defend your actions, go for it.

Can you please summerize these reasons for me because the big ones I'm seeing now are
1.Joking, One post I did this, if you want to have a big discussion about this go ahead but I'm still just going to stand by my statement: This is a worthless arguement
2.Not contributing, I feel like I've been contributing. I don't see any way you could have gotten this.
3.Protecting saber, I protected saber for the same reasons I'm protecting myself, saber had horrible reasons against him and I wanted to lynch other people than him

Anyway, I am Sir Integra Hellsing, leader of the war against vampires, and an informed townie meaning at the end of every night I get to know how many vampires are alive because I am so awesome at recognizing them. The end.

[Doombunny9]

fuck if I understand your play at all today, DB. Jesus.

Meh, probably my mood. Im not even sure if I know my play either

[Doombunny9]

I still think that Neto should decide what we're going to do about this. I mean, it's fine if we drop one or two suggestions about it but this whole thing is getting us off track of scumhunting and discussion and isn't helping the game at all. Neto has the power, not the town as a whole.

[Doombunny9]

Hell, take this last page. You've said you were defending Saber because he was being attacked for weak reasons, but then YOU VOTE FOR HIM for no other reason than saying that it's the play of the day. *%&$#%yu$#)*%()&#$%&@*()#)$^ BLARGH.

Even though the reasons were bad I still agreed with them. I still thought he was scummy. I would still be fine with a vote for him. I would however, prefer to vote Looker. I thought I made this clear before. Guess not. Oh well.[/quote]

[Doombunny9]

Just realized my votes still on saber

unvote

I'll decide who I want to vote tomorrow. Right now I have to get some sleep.

[Doombunny9]

Ok, I see the point Amished is making now and I say we should go for it! We have nothing to lose (well, except a townie but thats expected) and we gain a free clear and a possible dead scum.

Alright, whatever. I see no one viable for him to shoot at the time. From what I can tell though, Amished wants: Lynch Saber, Vig Looker

I'm cool with this.

The only thing that could go wrong with this whole thing is, what if there is no vig and Neto is sctually a SK? His normal killing can be passed off as a vig kill, he's going to look guilty when copped, and the bulletproof could be a specail power he has or he just doesn't want to be killed by maf.

[Doombunny9]

@forbiddan and Shotty Shotty-I noticed you haven't even said anything about my claim. Did you even see it?

[Doombunny9]

But you voted me? Care to explain?

[Doombunny9]

EBWOP

I'm an idiot. Shotty only voted saber, not me.

[Doombunny9]

So my nameclaim means nothing now? I can see how my role could be crappy (it is -_-) but saying Integra Hellsing isn't in the game is just, well, unfuckingbeleivable. How is Netos claim any more beleivable than mine. Let's say he's a SK. Well couldn't he just shoot someone than say he was a vig?

Albert-What do you think about my claim? Beleivable? Unbeleivable? Who is your strongest FoS right now?

[Doombunny9]

My post 9-

Ok, so we're missing these people-Netopalis, and Amished

@Those two-What do you think about what happened so far? What do you think about Archon's self vote?

And to everyone else-Is there anyone right you you have a good scum reading on so far. I don't personally and everyone seems neutral to me with only a slight feeling of town/scum.

I don't see how I'm saying I'm not scum.

Oon my Post 21 (post number 238)- I was answering all the questions directed toward me/everyone. I was also talking about what I thought about Netos claim and unvoting because I had my RVS vote still on. How the hell was I changing the subject?

Also, in the future, could you please give post numbers instead of "his 36th post" etc. I hate counting my posts to try and find it.

I would so post more if I could. I'll be back later to say more

[Doombunny9]

EBWOP: One more quick thing

I'm actually feeling a very high likelihood that if Integra is in the game, she is in fact scum.

Ok then...I'm just going to back away slowly. I don't know how the hell you get this.

[Doombunny9]

Post 9-There is a huge difference between a joke and an actual "theres no way I could be scum. Anybody who says otherwise must be scum!" Mine was the joke.

10+11-From what I saw. That was the only reason they were voting me. Jokes still aren't scummy.

21-So I'm not supposed to ask questions. Bad question, eh, maybe. Distracting the game from myself, no.

24-I have said this so many times...Saber is scummy yes, Would I be fine with his lynch? Yes. If I could choose anyone to lynch would it be saber? No.

36-Again I've already explained my bandwagon vote. Still probably not my best idea but whatev. I already stated in my 34th post that I would hammer saber if nessesary. Seeing as saber was probably the lynch of the day at that time I decided "Why not now instead of waiting" thus my vote.

40-Was asking if I should claim or not. Not much more than that.

As for you, you seem to have made mostly fluffy posts for the beginning of the game up until just recently really. What I find weird about this is that you find someones nameclaim scummy without really backing it up. If you think that Integra isn't town sided than why? This has been nagging me for a while yet you and chaco just seem to go with it.

[Doombunny9]

That's classified information.

However, I can definitely see a scum Integra. The non classified way to explain it is that your behavior has not been that or a town Integra

How is it classified? Would it cause you to claim? I doubt it. Would it put us at a disadvantage? Probably not. Unless you can give me a reason why you shouldn't than I see no reason for you to say why you think Integras not town.

Same question to Chaco-Why do you think Integra would be scum?

Finally, I'd like proof of my "fluffy posts"

Throughout the game you've been pretty much referencing other games. Other games have little influence on this game other than the mod bases his mod style off of these other mods. Other posts have just been pretty much what other people said or did with nothing new to add. Others had little to do with the game. When your posts weren't fluffy they were often short and didn't add too much to the game. If you want straight up examples of them I'd be happy to give them to you but I'm in a hurry so I probably won't have time to give them right now.

Even jokes can be presented in such a way that you are trying to imply that it's impossible for you to be scum. I do not recall tacking on the second part.

Ok, the second part was pretty much mine. Whatever, you can just cut that part out. But heres a question? What would I gain from my joke as scum? I doubt anyone else thought of it that I was a joke that I couldn't be scum.

They increase in scumminess as the game starts moving. The game had started moving.

You're missing the point here. The only reason they had their votes on me was because I was joking. Pay attention to the word only.

Asking questions is great. Asking questions that have no real point to determining town and scum is not great.

All you've really done here was confirm that my question was bad. My question was bad. My question was not changing the subject away from me.

[Doombunny9]

It would cause me to claim. And possibly unnecessarily.

0.o Alright then...

But by that point joking was scummy

Ok, I see that to you joking is scummy but is it really scummy enough to lynch somebody when the ONLY reason is that they were joking?

Strong flavor, and your play reeks of scum.

What do you mean by strong flavor? Also, I wasn't asking why I might be scum. I'm asking why Integra might be scum.

[Doombunny9]

Okay, I have a confession to make. I'm the scum. I'm mafia; however, I won't be revealing any teammates. You got me and any recent interactions you can dig up. I'm mafia.

Wow Looker, that was just fail unless your jester. Thanks for sapping the fun like Forbs said -_-

[Doombunny9]

1) Looker *claimed* scum
1a) Scum don't claim scum
2) Jesters claim scum
2a) Jesters win when they're lynched
2b) Jesters must be NK'd
3) We have a claimed 1-shot vig
3a) Vig the Jester through NK
3b) The Jester doesn't win, and we're not all stuck playing for second
4) Go on with the game
5) ?
6) Profit!

But sometimes scum claims scum if they know there's a jester and they won't get lynched for it. Even so vig can still kill him overnight. But that raises another question. What if he's NK immune or theres a mafia doc etc. etc. So the question is should we lynch him or vig him. I'd personally be happier with a NK.

[Doombunny9]

How are scum gonna know anything *D1* without a night start? Also, Net is nk-immune, a jester (looker) isn't. Also, way to run yourself around in a circle with WIFOM, instead of keeping the simple conclusion.

What simple conclusion? We either found scum or a jester. If we hit jester than we obviously NK him. If we hit scum than he wouldn't gain anything from claiming D1 so he must either be a bus driver, strongman etc. trying to get Neto to waste his shot. If this is the case we need to lynch him.

Question for Neto-If Looker doesn't get lynched today, will you shoot him or try to get him lynched D2?

[Doombunny9]

EBWOP

I also think that Looker is probably a jester and should be shot. My evidence is looking back at the game Looker has been giving low-content posts and has been randomly votehopping. Jesters obviously want to act as scummy as possible to get lynched so I'm leaning on him being a jester.

[Doombunny9]

You see, there's a problem with me definitively saying that I'll kill looker tonight. You say that if they protect, we just lynch tomorrow, and that's true. However, that gives scum the ability to waste *two* town kills, not just one. How about this: I will roll a 4-sided die and will kill Looker on the day matched by that die, provided he has not already been lynched?

I agree with forbs. Sounds iffy. Remember, we either found jester or scum (or the off chance he's just trolling the game) If we wait till day/night 3 or something than we lessen our chances. I say we either shoot him or lynch him. If you

really

don't want to shoot him tonight I will vote him. Otherwise, I will stay off him and you can hopefully shoot.

Mod-If we lynch jester will town and scum play for second or will the game end?

Town and scum would play for a joint win with the Jester. I'm not cruel.

[Doombunny9]

Ok, so if everyone else is ok with it, I guess we shoot Looker tonight. Any objections. If not, Who do you think we should lynch today (meaning state your #1 FoS excluding Looker)?

[Doombunny9]

And that is L-2 I beleive. (correct me if I"m wrong) I still feel as if we're going to hit jester hee. I don't like how everyone is just giving up it seems "Screw it if he's jester, I just want to get rid of him" If you truly think that way I encourage you to give second thoughts to that and to reconsider your vote. Just a heads up though, the deadline is Friday. If there is no lynch that I agree with I will vote Looker on Thursday because even though it's a bad lynch (at least from my PoV) it is still better than a No lynch.

[Doombunny9]

I highly doubt that anyone will disagree with lynching claimed scum.

You're the one who really thought he was jester before. Any reason you strongly think he's scum now?

[Doombunny9]

I've addressed this before, but irregardless of Jester, the mod is a bastard (no offense) for putting one in if he is. Avoid WIFOM and lynch the claimed scum. This is my first game with a Jester, and if they "win"; I won't count it as "2nd place" if the town wins behind a jester.

Alright, I guess that works for me. I don'tthink other town will count it as second place though :shrug: Oh well, I'm still going to wait until Thursday to vote (unless there's someone that's really scummy other than Looker)

[Doombunny9]

Question for everyone-Suppose we lynch Looker today (which we will probably do). Will you still follow up on the saber (and maybe me, depending on the person) lynch or look for other people who are doing scummy things?

[Doombunny9]

Well unless my calculations are wrong (I'm assuming they're right since no one corrected me) Looker is now at L-1.

Doombunny, if you believe that Looker is a bad lynch who do you think is scum?

Here's a list of scumitude (other than Looker). 1 is most scummy and 5 is least scummy

1-Saber/ABR (obvious why I'm putting him at the top)
2-Amished (Because of his breif flashes of bad posts however, he is helping town out so he is really close to being in the #3)
3-Everyone not listed here (To be more specific active lurkers or people with low content posts)
4-Forbs (Even though her posts were fluffy near the beginning of the game she is helping town out a lot)
5-You (Cuz I beleive your claim, for now anyway)

[Doombunny9]

Doombunny, Konowa asked that question and not me.

D'oh

@Doombunny: Is there a reason you think you need to post who you think is most townie?

Not really, it just seemed more "comeplete" than 'I think ABR and Amished are the most scummy'

[Doombunny9]

Ok, first of all. CURSE YOU LOOKER. You'd better have a good explanation for this the next time I see you.

I'm assuming the person who killed kikuchio was a SK or we have another vig running around but I find that highly unlikely.

Finally, for some reason I did not get a PM saying how many vampires there were. I'm assuming that there is a roleblocker among us and that he/she roleblocked me and that prevented me from getting the PM.

Also, there's one other thing that's been bothering me. Looker was a nazi vampire if I'm not mistaken. Even if Neto is correct in saying that he was a reverse-death miller it still leaves chaco being a town sided nazi vampire. So could the mafia be something differant from the vamps is what I'm thinking right now. Than again, if one of them is scum that could still mean that the vampires are still scum. Amyway this is all just meaningless WIFOM so I"m going to drop it for now but keep it in the back of my mind.

[Doombunny9]

Two things. Firstly, it's entirely possible that Chaco could be lying about his alignment as well - at death, both come up as pro-town neighbor but are secretly scum.

That would be epic if it did happen but let's think for a moment. Do you think there would really be scum fake neighbor reverse-miller roles? Although, given your role I won't be TOO surprised if it happened

[quote="Neto"Jan Valentine was a vampire, yes, but he was a vampire who was created through artificial means - the implant of a chip. The series makes a huge distinction between the FREAK chip vampires and the genuine vampires - the game could as well.[/quote]

Well that's one thing skimming through wikipedia won't tell you XD. Thanks for that knoledge.

Also, the mod just forgot to give me my PM There are currently 4 vampires alive right now.

[Doombunny9]

Magnus- I comepletly agree with Neto about you. Stating "These people are scum! Lynch them!" or "These people are town! Don't lench them!" Tells us nothing. Give us reasons why they're scum/town or else we have nothing to work on with you. Stop being so lazy and post. It helps town. The end.

Anyways, look back upon D1, and notice where I said "blah blah blah Why do I think Integra is scum? blah blah and Strong Flavor." Get why strong flavor makes sense now? Integra "pretty much" killed Jan. Shot him in the face multiple times, but he finished it off by setting himself on fire. Anyways. I cannot see Integra and Jan being on the same side. Even if she's not scum, she wouldn't be town.

You are comepletly ruling out the idea that you are scum which I do not like. You are in no way confirmed town. Also reread rule 18 if you want. Making too many assumpions about roles/rolenames does not indicate alignment and just makes the game problematic.. You are thinking the exact oppisite. Further proof of this would be, wouldn't you think that you and Looker would be scum from your names?

That's what makes this game interesting. The character links, are definitely not as they should be.

This also contridicts you. Integra almost killed Jan. You vote me because the link between your character and mine indicate that we're on differant sides. You say links aren't what they should be. Make up your damn mind![/quote]

[Doombunny9]

I can confirm this is not the case. Well, somewhat. We won't know for CERTAIN until either I or someone else in millenium flips, but I know I'm town and millenium.

I will not claim further.

I don't know if this will cause you to claim further or not but I have a quick question for you. Don't answer it if it will reveal anything further than what we need however. Anyway, here's my question. Earlier you said that you thought Integra would be scummy if she was in the game. You didn't however reveal more because it would cause you to claim. Was being part of Millenium the reason for thinking this (sort of like chacos reasoning earlier) or would it cause you to just flat out claim?

DB: If you would read and not cut the part that I said it in, I do believe I said: As I was reading my opinion changed.

No need to get pissy over the little things

I don't see how I could have missed the part where you changed your mind but I did Oh well.

Also, a question for magus- When you said you thought that ABR was town did you include saber in that too? The reason I ask is because you left saber out of the post where you labeled who you thought was scum/town. If you just meant ABR, what do you think of saber?

[Doombunny9]

*cough* there's an "n" *cough*

Typos FTL

The way I see it, ABR is Saber, since they share the playerslot. Anything reflecting well or poorly on one does the same for the other. That's one of the troubles with replacements. I refer to whichever is convenient/intuitive for me at the time.

Which one was intuitive/convenient for you? It seems like it was ABR for you but I can't be sure. You also say that reflecting well or poorly on one does the same for the other. Can you explain how you applied this to your read on ABR? I mean if saber was unhelpful to the game that would make ABR seem bad right? So did saber change what you thought about ABR?

[Doombunny9]

That's about it for now. I'd really like to hear back from SSK....when does he get back from V/LA again?

Monday -_-

Mod: Can we get a prod on SSK?

Also, because this might settle a lot of debates about this in the future
@Chaco+Forbs-(Again, feel free not to answer if this would cause you to claim Forbs) You are both part of millenium/FREAKS. Is there any flavor about why you joined up with the town (because you would both seem like scum names to me) or what the mafia might be?

[Doombunny9]

First of all, way to quad post SSK

First off, why claim? Second off, no shit after you said you would use your action don't you think a roleblocker would focus on you?

I claimed yesterday because I was getting lynched. Also, I guess that no roleblocker did focus on me. -shrug-

This is highly unlikely. I know that Kairyuu would not miss a single night action. He's highly responsible like that.

I would like to know how you find this scummy. If I was mafia, what would I gain from waiting a bit to give the info? (if you remember, Neto was the only one who posted in between my posts.)

I have to second fl on this. I really, really do not like this post and do not see town asking this question.

I asked this question as to find why they might be town as opposed to scum, the second part was to obviously try and figure out what faction the scum belongs to (Millenium, FREAKS, etc.). When we have information town needs to get as much of it as we can without letting have scum get too much which is why I included the part about "feel free to not answer this question" portion of it.

Since I am on the subject, I just remembered something Doombunny. I can not find the reasoning why you had sABeR (bad, I know) as your number one lynch, disregarding Looker as you said, at the end of D1. Can you show me where you provided reasoning? All I can remember is that you constantly said that you had saber listed as failtown.

Saber was always at near the top of who I wanted to lynch. I just felt that what everyone thought was scummy wasn't enough for a vote from me. The evidence for both is the same. I never 100% supported a saber lynch.

[Doombunny9]

Ok, I can't really post much right now but heres a heads up. I will be quickly skimming through the game tomorrow to find more people to pursuit. (Because the people I thought were scum yesterday are gone today. Looker and Amished were killed. ABR is still alive though so I will be paying specail attention to him and saber)

[Doombunny9]

OK, I read through and found 2 people that caught my eye: Chaco and SSK. Throughout the game they have been posting low content posts and most of them were only one or 2 lines (Not counting quotes). Again I don't have much time to talk but I will read through these 2 peoples posts carefully and decide who I want lynched then.

Vote: MafiaSSK

as a placeholder vote.

[Doombunny9]

And you're also not taking your votes seriously unvote vote DB

Yes, I am taking my votes seriously. And I have looked back and I'm happy with my vote of you.

Doombunny, what happened to sABeR? What about Chaco and SSK made you drop consideration of sABeR?

I am still looking at/considering Saber/ABR as scummy. As I said before, because 2 of my top 3 people that I though were scum died (Looker+Amished) I decided to look back and try and find more people who I want lynched. Those people are Chaco and SSK.

Doom. Hey boy, what's up? Why point out SSK and I, when Kanowa has been slipping by this whole game with nothing but one liners? Reason why? You're floundering and trying to push a quicklynch.

Konowa is doing more than one liners. Might want to read his posts sometime. (Although he's sometimes on the border of giving low content posts). Quicklynch? Where did you get that idea? I am in no way pushing a quicklynch. If anyone here is it may as well be you.

Who was on DB a lot yesterday? Amished. Who's dead? Amished. Who did you kill Doom?

Don't forget that once Amished heard my claim he got off me and Forbs got on. Under your reasoning would't it be smarter to kill forbs? (BTW I killed kikuchio

[Doombunny9]

You have a night-kill and failed to mention that in your claim?

It was a joke... And god forbid that I get lynched for it this time. You people are all so serious

[Doombunny9]

DB, if you committed a little more to what you said, I would have an easier time getting a read on you. Can you stop making lame jokes and back up your arguments more seriously? Like you actually believe them? Thanks.

What more do you want? Chaco said I'm scummy because Amished died. I rebutted that arguement. I beleive I did. I see nothing wrong with adding jokes (no matter how bad they are) to the end. By the way, why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side!

Also, you're missing this

Ok...Can somebody on the Doombunny train compile a succinct argument against him?

Because I too want to hear good reasoning other than, "OMG he made a joke at the beggining of the game! He's so scum" and "Well he hasn't been contributing to the town in the beggining" But really, who has been contributing much due to the sudden RVS drop.

[Doombunny9]

Number two, I am NOT on the DB train, although I DID state why I thought you were scummy.

Missed your unvote

Number one, I want to see you go after who you think is scum. That way, I can find out if you're inventing things as you go, or if it makes sense to go through the thought process that you did.

I am going after who I think is scum. Note my vote on SSK. I would say more about him though if he would post more...

[Doombunny9]

From your list at the end of D1, sABeR was your number one scum. Semantics aside, I fail to see how "looking at/considering" matches with this view. Words fail me right now, but the brunt of it is that I do not like how sABeR was number one in your book yesterday, and with no word otherwise you have barely mentioned him today. Now, you are voting SSK and state that you can not push anything because he is not saying enough. I really do not like how content you seem with camping your vote on SSK until he decides to talk "more". If Chaco is also a scum read of yours, why are you not pursuing him? At the moment, this is why I find you scummy.

The main reason I am voting SSK is because he is posting a lot of low-content posts and doesn't even post enough of those. I am planning on leaving my vote on SSK unless something changes my mind. Him talking more will not change my mind much. I probably should pursue Chaco more though. -shrug-

Just read SSK in iso. His posts are all short and rarely do they help town out. Also look at how many posts he has: In the 14 pages that he was here he only made 19 posts. Also read Neto's post 81. This quickly outlines what is probably SSK's worst post: his #17th. He states that he will still post small posts and he won't even defend himself. Also it seems very "What the heck! You all need to stop voting me!"

Cases on Chaco and ABR/Saber to come.

[Doombunny9]

Ugh. I just had a realization.....Thematically, I think that it's probable that we have a cult. Let me walk you through my thought process....

1) If Doombunny's claim is true and he can indeed tell the number of vampires alive at a given night, that implies that the number of vampires will change.

2) The number of vampires will change as players are killed off, but we could figure this out just as easily by counting the dead and alive characters.

3) Kairyuu is, I understand, known for tricky setups. There's no reason to put a role into the game that is essentially dead, especially giving it to a rather important figure like Integra.

4) It would fit thematically for a vampire to be a cult. In the show, real vampires can turn other people into real vampires and FREAK vampires can turn other people into Ghouls (mindless zombies, essentially).

Any thoughts? If there is a cult, how many scum do you think we should expect?

Actually, I've been thinking about this too. I just didn't want to throw it out until I actually had evidence other than my role that there is a cult. My role is basically useless unless there is a recruiting mason/cult (Although with the theme I'm leaning towards thinking cult). But this leads to something else, a SK, cult, and maf? I don't know about you but doesn't this seem like a little much?

Also going with this logic there would have to be 2 cultists (vampires I'm presuming or else my ability would still be useless and assuming they converted someone last night. This leads to 2 other vampires. In this situation 2 vampire scum would seem like a likely number (with a cult+SK) Which leads Chacos claim to be pretty much defeated.

However, this whole thing is useless until we know that theres a cult. If I do find out that there's a cult. I will use this as evidence.

[Doombunny9]

Doombunny, what is your read on Shotty? With reasoning please.

I'm not really sure how I feel about Shotty exactly. I'm leaning towards thinking he's neutral/leaning scum. The reasoning for this is well, the reasons for the scum part are pretty much all the major reasons that were already given but the reason I'm just not sold on him being scum. The reason I'm not comepletly sold on him being scum is that there are a lot of better targets that I think are scum so if one of them gets lynched/killed I will definatly go after Shotty as if he were scum. (By the way, when was the last time SSK or Chaco posted? I really want to hear them being as how they're 2 out of my 3 scum choices).

[Doombunny9]

So let me ask you this: if 6 players in this game were to lynch Shotty today, would you be one of them?

It depends on a lot of things, what changes over the course of the day, how scummy I begin to veiw him and other people etc. If the lynch were right now then I would not be one of them unless his roleclaim is comepletly rediculous. I would prefer to lynch one of the other people I think are scummy before Shotty.

Also SSK and Konowa, you have yet to do what was asked of you from Neto in post 810. I really want to know all of the reasons brought together on one organized post. Is that too much to ask?

[Doombunny9]

@Doombunny - With content, lack thereof or not, already provided why do you think SSK, Chaco, or sABeR is a better lynch than Shotty?

Ok, lets compare the main reasons against each of these people

SSK-Very few, low-content, one line posts. Is clearly not contributing much to the town
Chaco-Same as SSK but helping out a bit more
ABR-The reasons I'm sure that everyone knows that stemmed from Saber
Shotty-Bad reasoning

I don't know about all of you but the reasons for SSK, Chaco, and ABR seems a lot worse than some bad reasoning on Shottys part. I would support a Shotty lynch but only if one of the people above are town.

Also Konowa, you're doing a really good jop at not stating the reasons against me. Was Neto absoluly correct in his numbered listings. Was there anything he left out? Was there anything that he got wrong?

[Doombunny9]

Quick notice- Because tomorrows Halloween I may or may not be here tomorrow. However, if I am it will probably only be a couple of quick posts.

[Doombunny9]

Doom, you compare me to SSK. Which you said that if he posted more it would not change your opinion on him. Why is that? Does that also mirror to onto me?

Well if he just started to suddenly start posing more it would seem as if he is just trying to get on my good side so I wouldn't vote him. Also, his actions from what may happen in the future will not change his (in)actions in the past. If he could convince me to not vote him or to vote someone else than I suppose I would change my vote from him. And of course this applys to you too.

[Doombunny9]

Why was my quote labeled SSK?

I was trying to type quickly and wasn't really paying attention

Anyways, I understand what you mean, but don't you think that is tunneling slightly?

Hmm, it might be a little bit. But I will have an open mind about it and listen to new ideas and opinions.

[Doombunny9]

1. Go read him in ISO, as I have done multiple times. Just humor me, and do so.
2. Also, I looked back to Amished's suspicions since he died town. One of his main focuses was DB.
3. Doom as much as he posts, isn't helpful in the slightest.

Main point being, go read him in ISO. Tell me that you do not find him incredibly scummy.

Chaco, this is a really weak arguement. For one, you aren't giving any strong evidence against me.

1. Just like Neto said, what do you think is scummy?
2. Amished knows all now? Seems to me as if you're appealing to this fact rather than doing any work on your own
3. Says the person with the short one-liners

[Doombunny9]

Net, yes you are. Also, DB reeks of scum! Need I say more? In all of his posts, he is an erratic player who does not weigh all of the factors and tends to tunnel like crazy. He tends to go after those who go after him, as shown by all of his votes. He joked like crazy on D1 and then pulled the little innocent act. He should've been the D1 lynch, his claim saved him. Stupidity on my part and not claiming D1 caused Looker's lynch. If I would've thought more clearly about it, I would've claimed and pushed that away. However, his alignment was not guaranteed. So therefore, I did pursue his lynch. I have no idea what he was thinking. If it was a gambit, it failed miserably.

I do weigh all of my options. And tunneling? Hardly. In fact, you seem to be tunneling on me more than anyone else. Also, only 3/9 people think I am pro-town or neutral (Neto, Shotty, Magnus if I'm correct). I beleive Netos claim, I do think Shotty is scummy, and I haven't really heard enough on Magnus to get a sold read on him but I'm leaning town. So other than Shotty I kinda do have to get on people who are on me. and joked like crazy? If you look back I only made a joke in 1 post in D1 I beleive. Besides. Just like Neto says, how is humor a scumtell?

[Doombunny9]

Note: Doombunny's random vote was on kikcuchiyo at this time.

Unless some bad reasoning was presented, which he did not state was the case, I do not see any reason why town should have to remove their vote from a wagon. Wagon's present town with numerous bits of information and move the game forward. The fact that he would remove his vote from a wagon, just due to the fact that a wagon formed on kikcuchiyo reads like scum trying to stay off his buddy's wagon.

Kik was my RVS stage vote. If a bw was going to be on her than I did not want to be part of it. I did not find kik scummy.

Throughout the entirety of D1, he constantly listed saber as failtown. Now, at the end of the day sABeR is his number one scum? Reading his D1 over, this reads more like a policy lynch to me. This reads like scum keeping an option open on someone who is considered scummy by many.

I don't see why so may people are having trouble comprehending this but I'll say it again. Saber was scummy. However, because of the horrible reasons at that point I wouldn't mind passing him off as fail-town. This did not mean that I actually thought he wasn't scummy.

Also, if they're (SSks and Chacos) playstyles are really that bad. They really need to change. Town can't get anywhere with one-line posts that barely if at all contribute to the game.

Ok, now we have something to work with....I can understand why someone would see that as scummy, although I do personally disagree. Someone with a random vote on somebody who is gaining a wagon that they disagree with is in a bit of a catch-22. They can either unvote and be seen as weak or waffling or they can stick with a lynch that they disagree with, which really, really feels wrong to a town player, especially that early in the game. Therefore, he tried to cut the baby in half here...Not take the vote off, but notify that he doesn't particularly like the wagon and won't stick with it.

If I remember correctly, there was only one other person on kik at that time. I don't see how it really matters if I keep my vote on or not just as long as a larger bandwagon didn't form.

The above is Doom's most recent post, within this post he attempts to buddy. Also, this post is scummy as hell. He does the classic,"Can't be me! Must be you!" type deal.

Um, what? So there are really two major things I can do here. #1, I could find reasons that YOU are scummy (you are my #2 or 3 choice and my #1 isn't talking much) but be called scummy for THAT. Or I could just leave you alone but that doesn't really help me much. Also, I have no idea why you were calling me out for scummy things I did when you did the exact same things.

Does anyone else not find this scummy to high hell? I'm not going through and highlighting all the main points of each post. But I will pick out scummy snippets of posts later in the night. But for now, I'll leave you with this.

It seems to me that you are only picking out the things you want to hear. Read it in context. I said that I had to get on people that were on me because the majority of town was on me and the people that wern't on me looked townie to me (with the exception of Shotty).

[Doombunny9]

Last sentence proves my point again.

I agree with Neto here again. I don't know what the hell you're trying to tell me here yet you just go "See, that was scummy!" In the future, tell me what's scummy so I can defend myself. If you don't, you're no better than SSK.

[Doombunny9]

Last thing you just wrote was also scummy.

1. You invoke Net
2. "You're no better than SSK."

Deafening scum bells.

And yet you comepletly ignore what I asked for...

@chaco: your play is so atrocious and anti-town right now, I can't possibly see it as scummy. Scum wouldn't play that way 'cause it would get them lynched. Start explaining yourself, or expect your points to either
a. be turned against you
b. be ignored completely.

He's not scummy because he's scummy? This is very much WIFOM. If someone is scummy theres no "but he can't possibly be that scummy if he's scum" scummy is scummy.

Also, about Magnus's claim. I do think I know who he is. However, he is not a vampire (unless I'm wrong). I do think that he would be in the game though so for now. I beleive his claim.

[Doombunny9]

This is what I am talking about. To me it seems that you had already determined that should a kikcuchiyo wagon take off you were going to un-vote. Un-voting with the sole purpose being that it is a large wagon is scummy to me. You were not even going to take into consideration what other points might have been brought up against kikcuchiyo. I read this, as I stated earlier, as scum trying to stay off their buddy's wagon.

Yes I was planning that if a Kik wagin did take off than I would stay off it it because my vote was from the RVS stage. Can someone refresh my memeory about why they thought kik was scummy at that point? Because I remember that the reason I didn't have a serious vote was either because I disagreed with it or felt it wasn't good enough.

Doombunny, you have stated several times now that you found saber scummy, but just not for the reasons that everyone else did. Now, I might fail at reading, early morning and no coffee yet, but I can not find any reasoning of your own of why you found saber scummy.

Where did you get the idea that I found him scummy for differant reasons. I agreed with (most) of the things said about him.

My main point is that it looks like he had already pre-determined, despite reasoning that might have been presented later, that he was going to un-vote.

Wait a minuite. Where the hell do you get this? I'm not going to vote kik if I think she's scum? Can you point me to this? If good evidence was provided to me, I would have probably kept my vot on kik, regardless of a bandwagon or not.

[Doombunny9]

Chaco, Neto has yet another point against you. All day long I've been listining to you saying "You look at him, see he's scummy"yet you can't seem to provide examples of any of this. If you want us to listen to any of your reasons, you're going to have to give us the reasons to look at.

When you can't provide this, I can't defend myself properly.

[Doombunny9]

I do not have time to go back and quote exactly what you said, but I believe your words were that what everyone else was saying was scummy against saber you were willing to list as failtown. Now you are agreeing with most of the things said against him? Why did you find him scummy?

OK, lets go over this one more time. I thought Saber was scummy for the same reasons as everyone else (minus a few things such as joking). However, the reasons brought up against him were not enough to earn a lynch from me. I said that due to the evidence brought up about him, I wouldn't mind thinking that he was just a failtown.

Blech. Unvote vote Net

What is this? You vote neto because he prodded you? What the hell?

1. The joking
2. Indecision with easily back outs
3. Going after only the ones who go after him
4. "Dumb or Scum" questions

1. Exlain. Joking is not a scumtell. Something scummy is A. Something that helps scum or B. Something that hurts town. Joking does neither.
2. I am perfectly decided about everything right now.
3. We already talked about this. Majority of town wants me lynched. The rest I am thinking as town (except Shotty).
4. What do you mean by this?

[Doombunny9]

Walk me through how you agree with most of the reasons brought up against saber, but it was not enough for you to want to lynch him, but he was still number one on your scum list end of D1.

Ok then, on day one I guess you can say that I was thinking about Saber kindof like the way Neto is thinking about me now (there are a few differances but they should be easy to pick out). For me, most of the reasoning behind the votes were weak. I did however, find him scummy for a lot of them. I did not support a lynch on him though because most of the reasons were weak. Now then, as you can probably see by reading me in iso, I didn't see anyone else that scummy (with the exception of Amished for his unthoughtful, weak posts when he first started posting but that was even weaker than the reasons for Saber) Therefor, saber was my number one choice. Now, in the beginning of this day I reread everyone in iso to pick out more people that I thought were scummy. The two people I found were Chaco and SSK. I hope that helps.

[Doombunny9]

The humor, more or less was just detrimental that slowly added up.

You say you reread me in iso but you missed one important detail that contradicts with what you're saying here. You say my humor "adds up" yet you miss the fact that

I only made one joke post

My 9th post. Now, explain two things to me.

1-If you read me in iso than you would know that I have only made one joke post. You also state it again in post 115 where you say "He joked like crazy d1" How, if you have been reading me in iso, missed this detail?

2-How is joking detrimental to the town? You say it is but you don't explain how.

[Doombunny9]

Doom, you joked more than that. I consider the jokish buddying and and over use
of smilies, as joking. You were not taking it seriously. How is that a detriment? Well first of, you know the definition of detriment, correct? Well, it's presumably not helping at all and only being a nuisance. Which you were, along with Saber. Then clearly denied the fact that joking was unhelpful.

Wasn't taking it seriously... WRONG! Similies are scummy now? Where the hell do you get this?

Also, I'm sure that everyone should know this by now but I fully support a Chaco lynch.I will however, wait to hear some more input from him on this matter before I vote him though.

[Doombunny9]

Here's the reasons I'm voting Doom, maybe this will work better:

1. The joking
2. Indecision with easily back outs
3. Going after only the ones who go after him
4. "Dumb or Scum" questions

First this

Not scummy, but detrimental. Especially when you include the fucking ugly happy face in every post.

Than this... What exactly made you change your mind?

[Doombunny9]

You said part of the reason you are voting me is because I joked. You vote someone because they are

scummy

.

And Neto has a point here. Unless you happen to know something (like from a cop investigation or something) that the rest of town doesn't or you are god. You don't have the final say on who gets lynched. And I do beleive from your claim that you are neither.

[Doombunny9]

So you believe my claim yet push my lynch? Contradictory.

I said that from your claim you are neither a cop or something of that nature or god. Jeez, how the heck did you get that I beleived your claim? How much more can you say 'twisted my words'

[Doombunny9]

EBWOP: After ereading my last post it seems as if I was serious when Isaid you purposfully twisted my words. This is not true. What I was really meaning by that was that it was an example of how Chaco could twist something I said so much. Sorry if I meant it sound like that (hey look, I used another emoticon! More "detrimental" stuff for Chaco to lynch me for!)

[Doombunny9]

SSK, this is more reasons to be voting you. Why exactly is asking for a prod scummy? I don't know crap about what you're doing or what you're thinking.

[Doombunny9]

Looks like somebody...
*puts on Kamina glasses*
missed the joke.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH~

Meeh, yet

someone

still has their vote on Neto and I don't beleive we know why. And after being gone for a while and hasn't posted anything good since Oct 29 (although that barely said anything worthy at all) he comes up with this.

[Doombunny9]

I was reffering to SSK. Thought that was pretty obvious. Oh well, :shrug:

[Doombunny9]

Ok, I've been noticing that conversations been lacking recently and most people are just posting 1 or 2 liners (I admit, I've been doing it too) lets try to pick it up a bit everyone!

[Doombunny9]

Shotty, SSK, Doombunny, your thoughts?

I'm assuming you mean the toughts on a Chaco lynch. As I already told, you I'm all for it! So here I go,

Vote: Chaco

That puts him at L-1 right? L-2? L-3? Lynch? Would help if we had a votecount...

[Doombunny9]

So we're arguing with TV Tropes now? Way to distract ourselves from the game everyone!

Oh, and by the way, watching you two argue isawesome. Its just like a movie. I just want to get up, eat popcorn, and keep refrshing the page watching you two argue with each other. This is fun.

[Doombunny9]

The most useless player so far has been DB.

:quietly points at SSK:

I want your thoughts on every player in this game. You might be spared the rope today but if you want to continue to live, it would be advisable to post a DAMN good wall

I'm running out of time today so I'll post better stuff about everyone tomorrow but here's a quick summary of everyone

Forbs- Forbs seems pretty town sided to me. She has been contributing a lot of stuff for most of the game except for the beginning of the game where it seemed like mostly fluff to me. However, this dod not go on for too long which is why I am leaning on town.

Neto- Generally ok, during the beginning of the game I did notice his long inactive streak but didn't really think much about wanting to lynch him. I beleive his claim and I think he is town. (also his agruements are entertaining)

Magnus/Fuzzy- With Fuzzy I was leaning scum because like SSK, he posted short, low-content, one liners. However, when magnus joined the game I feel he has been contributing a lot to the game Which is why I am going to say he is town.

Konowa- I have mixed feelings about him, he has been helping town a lot during the game but some of his posts just seem fluffy and low-content and reckless. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

Shotty-Scummy. However, just like Saber was back in D1, I cannot see a really good reason to vote him because his main reason is because of his bad reasoning. Anyway, why he's scummy isn't much differant than other peoples.

Chaco- I have already given reasoning against him. He mostly gives low content, one liners and just recently he has been hurting town with his lack of evidence. I still think we have yet to see solid reasoning (other than his for points which I have defended without him posting back about them and I still don't know what the hell number four is) which is why he is my #1 scum choice.

SSK/Archon- Like Chaco, he has been posting low content, ne liners. I still have no reason why he's voting chaco still other than he asked for a prod (which seems like a joke) SSK- Was it a joke? Do you have any reasons for voting Neto or is it a random vote (RVS is over man) Archon has been doing pretty much the same things as well.

Me-Is awesome. That's all you need to know

ABR/Saber- Saber as I already said is scummy. Because of his D1 antics. I would however, really like to lynch someone other than him for just the saber crap. ABR has been town sided however when he wasn't just been reckless in his posting.

And I think thats everyone (dead people excluded cuz well, they're dead)

[Doombunny9]

And why's that?

Because you're scummy?

So, everyone who has been calling SSK scummy and saying that they would lynch him I would like for you to put your vote where your mouth is.

Like Neto, I don't really care if I vote SSK or Chaco so I will (again) reread throught heir posts and decide soon. For now though, I'll keep my vote on Chaco.

Now I promised a better read thorugh on each person but as I'm still busy, you can expect a good chunk of text on Chaco and SSK later today (probably along with my read through of Chaco and SSK)[/quote]

[Doombunny9]

SSK-

Post 0- A hello to everyone in the game. He also asked me for a summey. I know some of you think something (I don't know what) about his question but to me it just seems like fluff.

Post 1-More Fluff

Post 2-An... Ok question I guess but could be a lot better

Post 3-Fluffy question. Almost pointless point.

Post 4-Meh. Again almost pointless

Post 5-Amished said that his top 2 choices were Looker and Saber. SSK pretty much asks why Looker over Saber. Overall, an ok question i guess :Shrug:

Post 6-Doesn't even realize that Neto is NK immune even though he stated it several times. Makes me wonder if hes actually reading whats going on...

Post 7-Fluff

Post 8- I have no idea

Post 9- Vote on Looker, other than that fluff

Post 10- Fluff

Post 11- Fluff

Post 12- Fluff

Post 13- SSK doesn't even realized I claimed D1. What the heck man? Seriously, are you readng this game?

Post 14-Fluff

Post 15-A "Look at my meta! What I'm doing here is OK!" Post. And no, it is not ok to do this crap even if you do it in every game. He also posts WIFOM here and a very flimsy method of scumhunting

Post 16-Fluff

Post 17- Here he accuses me of something false (I am taking my vote seriously thank you very much). He also STATES THAT HE WILL CONTINUE DOING CRAPPY POSTS! No SSK, it is still not ok if you say you're going to do it. Finally, he lies about posting content (well, I guess he has but barely any)

Post 18- Wow, nice answer SSK...

Post 19-Again, an... Ok (I guess) post

Post 20-Fluff

Post 21-Fluff

Post 22-Don't ask me. I still want to know what the hell you were thinking SSK.

Post 23-Is he supposed to be defending himself? If so he's doing a very bad job ("I'm really good in endgame so don't lynch me!")

Post 24-Sama as Post 23

Post 25-Same as Post 22

Post 26-Fluff (BTW, you forgot a thing. I might be a GASP! Third Party!)

Anyway, what have we learned. 26 posts and over half bad posts or fluff. Also, some other observations.

1. He barley posts...And that with Fluff posts? Yeah...
2.He only placed two serious vote (unless the Neto one is serious)
3. He doesn't even look like he's reading this thread. He missed some important things and he's ignoring almost all questions directed to him.
4. Nowhere does he have an FoS. I can't tell who his suspects are or anything (other than me)

So SSK, answer these questions if you are reading

1. Who are your top three people you think are scummy?
2.Why is your vote on Neto?
3. Not really a question but can you explain yourself in all these posts? (6, 8, 13, 15, 17, 22, 23, 24, 25)

Chaco and (possible) revote to come

[Doombunny9]

OK, It's chacos time. Now because he posts plenty (unlike SSK) I'll talk about his posts in groups of 10

0-10: Mostly fluuf and talking about the effects of prematurely ending the RVS are yadda yadda yadda. Voted the mod bla bla bla. Not a lot of stuff overall.

11-20: A little bit better convo going on. Votes Saber for joking. Chaco, if you say joking is only detrimental and not scummy, why do you vote saber for it? Up until post 17 this seems to be the only reason he wants to. Again he follows through with his pattern of "Look at him in iso! He's scum!" Here he also says that I have posted content. Contradiction?

21-30: Here he starts leaning toward saying that I'm scummy. Chaco, where did you change your mind about me? Other tan that nothing much.

31-40: Talks about how he would rather lynch saber than get a replacement. Nothing really good here.

41-50: Again, somewhere along the line he decides he would rather vote me over saber. Chaco, where did you decide this? Than he decides to go back to Saber, what the heck? Care o explain?

51-60: Pretty much the same stuff

61-70: An arguement with Amished about vig stuff. Other than that still not much.

71-80: finishes up the vig arguements, talks about my roles and stuff. Other than that, still pretty much the same old crap

81-90: Talks about the chance of him being scum vs jester. Not much here

91-100: Same old same old. Talks about flavor and why we wouldn't be on the same side. Chaco, does this still hold true for you? Is this one of the reasons you're voting me?

101-110: In post 105 he first starts out with the false fact that Konowa hasn't been contributing. He then gives some crappy reason about why I'm scummy. Also, what did you mean by a gut read on shotty?

111-120: Starts going back into the "look at him in iso!" reasoning with the same crappy evidence. He also starts to pick out certain parts of my posts which will help him while totally leaving out others.

121-130: Here is the part where he almost comepletly ignores Netos question of "Why don't you give me some reasons that hes scum" by answering "Look at him in iso!" and "Why don't you tell me how hes not!"

131-140: He gives reasoning which he still hasnt backed up after I defended myself and he still hasn't told me what dumb or scum questions are. He also changes his mind from "Humor is scummy!" to "Humor is just detrimental!"

141-150: Again he picks out only what he wants to hear, starts saying the "Well when I die everyone is going to want to lynch you!" scare tactic

151-the end: Arguments with Neto pretty much. The arguements are nothing more than fluff however.

So what have we learned today kids? Chaco is scummy. He was ok in the beginning of the game (except for some few things here and there) around D1 but when D2 hits, he suddenly turns scummy. I am going to

unvote

for now, think about who I'd rather see lynched than come back to you later with my decision.

[Doombunny9]

More to come later, Dooms post was minimal on me. And mainly just saying what I had done rather than the why.

You want

me

you tell

you

about why

you

did something? Holy crap. Like I know why you did this!

Anyway, I feel as if I have almost made a decision but I just want a little bit more time. I can assure you all that you will definatly hear a vote from me by the end of the day.

[Doombunny9]

Ok, I have a quick post. I think I know who I'm going to pick for my vote

Chaco Vs. SSK

Chaco-1.Helps the town more
2.Was ok until recently where he came with a flurry of scmmy posts with little to know reasoning or description

SSK-1. Almost never helps the town
2.Barely posts and with so it's bad content and I don't know what the hell he's even doing right now. It's like he's in his own world.

Vote: MafiaSSK

He is unhelpful to the town and an overall bad player.

Also, I really want that votecount. To everyone if the votecount doesn't come up- How many votes does this put SSK at?[/list]

[Doombunny9]

Jesus Christ! I was right! SSK doesn't read the game. Even when there's an entire fucking wall of text about him he doesn't even say anything about it let alone answer the questions I dierected to him. I still want to hear a claim from you SSK, you are at L1 and from what I've seen I'm sure as hell not going to unvote you.

[Doombunny9]

Not at you Neto, that's been reserved for Doom.

One of the main reasons I want to be lynched is for town, tht and yhe fact that I cannot definitely
disprove being scum. Lynching me will do just that and bump you in the right direction.

You cannot say 100% that I will be lynched if you flip town. While yes I admit that it will make me seem scummier it won't mean I'll get lynched. Unless you can prove that I'm scum you cannot 100% say that I will be lynched.

[Doombunny9]

Chaco, you still do not see the point here.

If you are lynched or killed and flip town then what you think about everyone will not suddenly come true. For example, if you die that will not make me scum or anyone else. You can be wrong. You don't seem to accept that.

Anyway, I may or may not be joining the bandwagon on chaco depending on what I hear from both of them soon. Because, to be honest chaco and SSK are both at the top of my scumlist and fighting each other for first.

[Doombunny9]

You're very tunneled...

I don't see how what you just pointed out is tunneling. http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... nel_vision That is the wiki article on tunneling. Tell me where I'm convinced of my arguements no matter what happens. If anyone is doing this is might as well be chaco with his "When I flip everyone will vote doom" PoV no matter what happens.

It seems like he doesn't care near at all when it comes to lynching, he seems pretty ready to lynch whoever.

Read what I wrote earlier. I said You and SSK are both at the top of my list and are almost tied for first. So yes, I don't really care which one of you I want to lynch because you're both equally scummy to me but I don't just want to lynch "whoever".

Also, I STILL haven't heard a post from SSK regarding the wall of text I have on him (Is he really reading this?) so I will say this one more time. In large text. And bolded. Just so he can get it through his head.

SSK, READ MY POST ABOUT YOU. IT'S THE GIANT WALL OF TEXT. ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!

Thank you... Anyway, I think my vote on SSK is good considering he DOESN'T EVEN READ THE GAME!

[Doombunny9]

EBWOP: I don't know why I didn't have bigger text so I'll try one more time

SSK, READ MY POST ABOUT YOU. IT'S THE GIANT WALL OF TEXT. ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!

Hopefully it's fixed this time.

[Doombunny9]

Doom here's a bit of WIFOM for you to mull over:

Would scum act the way SSK is?

You have a point here but like you say. It is just WIFOM, we can't get anything good out of it. And here's some WIFOM back at you since you seem to be so into it: If SSK played better, wouldn't he be lynched on account of meta?

Also, about the vigging. I would have to agree with Chaco. Tonight (assuming we lynch a townie. If we hit scum disregard all of this) There will be 3 townies, 2 scum (probably) and an SK. If scum and SK do not hit Scum or SK then the scum wins 2/2 which is why it would be best to shoot tonight if we hit a townie. If we hit scum or an SK however, it would be wisest to shoot at a later date.

[Doombunny9]

Ok, I have to make a quick post (again I know ) But here's what I think

First of all. I am sorry if I offended anyone with any of my posts. I did not mean to in any of them.

Second, I feel finegetting off of SSK, I want to hear what his replacement has to say. So

unvote

Until further notice. Anyway, until I hear from the replacement, I would feel like going after chaco or shotty now. I will read shotty in iso (tomorrow probably) and post what I think.

[Doombunny9]

Earlier it was SSK, and I. Now it's Shotty and I, any particular reason you changed course so quickly after seeming so adamant in your last post?

Because I want to hear more from the replacement first. I will most likely go back to the replacement once I hear from them.

@DB and Net: if you were not town, and were a serial killer, who would you kill tonight and why?

How exactly does this help the town? Do not like!

So who do you think scums going to kill tonight magnus? (see how bad a question yours is?)

His play since I last posted has just been awful, he's been overdefensive about what would happen to him if Chaco flipped town (implying he knew Chaco would flip town) and he's followed suit on every bandwagon the town has picked up and dropped.

Wasn't I either the one that either started the SSK bandwagon or actually made it a bandwagon? (1st or second vote). I did not imply that chaco would flip town (notice my use of ifs) I was saying that IF (see!) he was town then there was no for sure way that I would be lynched (which is how he was acting)

Also, I know the stuff behind Shotty's lynch and while I do agree with most of it, like saber d1, I don't really want to lynch him for it unless theres no better choice.

[Doombunny9]

Now, for his wagon hopping. Doom has been on like every single wagon that there has been. Pretty self explanatory.

Wait? When did this happen? I have only been on three (I think) major wagons.

1-Saber. At the time he seemed like the play of the day and like I said, if there was no one better, I would be fine with a saber lynch.
2-Looker, pretty self explanitory. I mean he claimed scum!
3-SSK, like I said, I either was the first person to put my vote on him or actually made it a bandwagon so you cant't say I really "joined" that bandwagon.

Then there was what I wanted to happen. His over defensive to my idle threats. He constantly reposed the idea that if I was town he couldn't be scum. And as Shotty pointed out, he insinuated knowing I was town. It seems like a very self preserved style of play. Like when he's under scrutiny he gets kind of quiet. Basically Net was his defense lawyer. He mounted his defense for him, and once the scrutiny had passed. BURST of activity.

Read my last post. I clearly said IF in all my posts regarding that and the thing I have said about it is "You can't say that I'm 100% scum if you get lynched"

And once he again, he doesn't really care who we lynch. It's went from like whoever the main targets are.

This is pretty much the same thing as your first argument. Same things. Also, I DO care how the lynch plays out. I did NOT however, care wether if it was you or SSK who got lynched because of you both being equally scummy.

In fact, you aren't really hearing out my defence. I've already gone over most of that stuff before and you don't seem to be responding to any of it.[/quote]

[Doombunny9]

So you wouldn't count the multiple votes on me a wagon, when it happened?

Forgot that Even so, this arguement is very weak as do also beleive that I was the one that brought some attention to you (if it was not you that did it yourself. either way, I was a help to it)

Also, I think I should adress Shotty's wall.

1190- How do you find this scummy exactly? I see nothing wrong with announcing that I would post later.
1206-I agree
1228-That was the epitome? I'm sorry butif that's the epitome then you have a VERY weak arguement.
1258-I don't know if you've read since my second to last post but you'll see my reasoning there.
1322-And what is wrong with an opinion? In fact, what is scummy about this at all? I said I would lay off of SSK until I could hear from the replacement, and would instead ather go off of you or chaco. Can you explain why you think ths is scummy.

And that's pretty much all Shotty wrote about how I'm scummy (I'm not sure if 1206 was about me being scummy or not so I put it in there anyway). In fact, a lot of this wall just seems like summary to me.

Shotty- Is there anything else that you think is scummy or is this pretty much it?

[Doombunny9]

EBWOP: Missed Shottys last post which leaves my defence to 1258 pretty much null.

Shotty- If you could, please respond to my 1357? Is it scummy to tell him that he could be wrong? He was pretty much saying that If he flipped town then I had to be scum. I don't see how correcting him is scummy.

[Doombunny9]

Me. What was so bad about that?

Both of those questions share one thing. Now assuming we kill the most town sided role (Since mafia has nothing to gain fom killing a NK immune townie and my role+chacos aren't really good targets)

If whoever we say we'd choose is town sided, it tells scum who's townish and gives them good choces on who to kill.
If whoever we chose is scum then it gives them some WIFOM to hide behind if someone askes them why the most helpful, town like player is still alive.

This question helps scum WAY more than scum and I refuse ro answer it. How does the question help determine alignment anyway?

[Doombunny9]

@Magnus-Look, I'm fine with answering the question if you provide me with a good reason for doing it. Until then, this question pretty much IS stating who you think is town.

[Doombunny9]

A good reason for doing it is because I'm going to assume that you answered the worst possible way if you don't.
Another good reason is that I'll actually explain myself if you do.
Another good reason is that I'll be able to tell your alignment.

Ok then... I'd better hear a good explanation for this... Anyway, I would probably kill Forbs if I was an SK. She seems the most pro town to me :Shrugs:

Also, you know me. I'm Integra. as said D1.