Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Netopalis]

And how many has the town let you survive to?

[MafiaSSK]

And how many has the town let you survive to?

That is not the point. The point is I'm pretty good in endgame.

Maybe 5 or 6 games out of a good 45 games maybe.

[Netopalis]

Riiight. Well, consider this an opportunity to prove yourself. Justify your existence.

[Shotty to the Body]

I'm catching up today, last of the schoolwork is through.

[magnus_orion]

And how many has the town let you survive to?

That is not the point. The point is I'm pretty good in endgame.

Maybe 5 or 6 games out of a good 45 games maybe.

What makes endgame significantly different from now, besides a smaller suspect pool and a larger amount of evidence? Surely you can do whatever it is you do in endgame now, and draw conclusions, even if you don't think they're as solid as you do in endgame because of the larger possibilities?

[Konowa]

I think I am going about this the wrong way.

unvote;

vote MafiaSSK

[Chaco]

You know what, screw it. I'm going to go ahead and post something affirmative. Here are my suspicion lists for today.

At least 1 of the following 4 are scum:
Konowa
Chaco
SSK
Shotty


Reasoning in order of scummiest to least scummy:

1: MafiaSSK - Absolutely no content and is unapologetic about it. Has made 21 posts when the game is well over 900. Promises lots of posts, never gives any reasoning. Votes twice, both supporting the current wagon. Does nothing to upset the status quo. Epitomizes "laying low", "going with the flow" and general lurking.
2: Chaco - Behind 2 wagons, both for questionable reasons. Lots of noise, very little signal.
3: Shotty - Similar to chaco - lots of noise, very little signal.
4: Konowa - Improved today, but still somewhat scummy. Lots of posts encouraging a course of action without stating why other than that "people should".



Possibly, but unlikely scum list:
Albert, Doombunny

I'm almost certain of townitude:
Forbiddanlight, Magnus_orion


MafiaSSK or Chaco is the play today, I believe. Of the two, I think that Chaco is more of a failtown read than MafiaSSK is.

Lol if DB is scum so is Net. There's no two sides about it at all.

SSK or I am the play today, correct? Wrong. Lynching me will reveal exactly like Luke's role. Which, I also don't see why Net doesn't think beyond the tip of his nose. Anyways, I'm not gonna push it. Doom is scum quite damn clearly. My vote is not moving.

Magnus: This isn't math, it's spotting simple scum tells in his posts.

Net, I'm failtown? Lol, no. All you've done is insult me, and guess what that's making me think? That I'm dead ass on. So continue, and prove me right.

[Konowa]

Lol if DB is scum so is Net. There's no two sides about it at all.

Why?

Also, why is Doombunny scum? Here is a hint, saying go look at his iso does not count as an answer.

[Chaco]

Obvious, obvious coaching at times keeping him in line. Defending him like a mad man while feeling no scrutiny for his claim.

Here's the reasons I'm voting Doom, maybe this will work better:

1. The joking
2. Indecision with easily back outs
3. Going after only the ones who go after him
4. "Dumb or Scum" questions

That's pretty much my reasoning on him.

[Netopalis]

1) Why is humor a scumtell? People keep saying that it is, but I really don't see it.
2) You're criticizing him for unvoting a random vote. Honestly.
3) That could be because everybody in this game has gone after him at one point or another.
4) It's a perfectly valid question, especially about you and SSK. You're both making broad claims with shoddy logic and, in your case, extremely aggressive stylings. I'm not thinking past the tip of my nose? I oughta...

*ring*
*ringring*

*answers the phone*

Netopalis talks into the receiver as a deep voice is heard on the other end of the line.

"Yeah, he's here. Sure, I can tell him."

Netopalis hangs up and says to Chaco, "That was the kettle. He says to stop calling him black."

[Konowa]

Okay.

1. The joking
2. Indecision with easily back outs
3. Going after only the ones who go after him
4. "Dumb or Scum" questions

I agree with you on the second and third points. The joking aspect is null to me. I would have to see what you mean by "dumb or scum" questions before I can comment on that point.

Preview Edit:

2) You're criticizing him for unvoting a random vote. Honestly.

I am not going to speak for Chaco on his point, but from my point of view Doombunny was waffling pretty hard on saber's lynch.

Moving on.

Chaco, is Netopalis scum only if Doombunny is scum? Or is he scummy for other reasons also? Also can you show me where this coaching is going on, because frankly I do not see it. What do you think of SSK's omgus vote of Doombunny earlier in the day?

[Netopalis]

Waffling on Saber....Meh. I can kinda see it. It's certainly not extremely good evidence, though.

[Konowa]

I now officially hate lawyers. Thank you Netopalis.

[Netopalis]

My pleasure. In order to be a good attorney, you need to know only one word. "Maybe."

[Doombunny9]

I do not have time to go back and quote exactly what you said, but I believe your words were that what everyone else was saying was scummy against saber you were willing to list as failtown. Now you are agreeing with most of the things said against him? Why did you find him scummy?

OK, lets go over this one more time. I thought Saber was scummy for the same reasons as everyone else (minus a few things such as joking). However, the reasons brought up against him were not enough to earn a lynch from me. I said that due to the evidence brought up about him, I wouldn't mind thinking that he was just a failtown.

Blech. Unvote vote Net

What is this? You vote neto because he prodded you? What the hell?

1. The joking
2. Indecision with easily back outs
3. Going after only the ones who go after him
4. "Dumb or Scum" questions

1. Exlain. Joking is not a scumtell. Something scummy is A. Something that helps scum or B. Something that hurts town. Joking does neither.
2. I am perfectly decided about everything right now.
3. We already talked about this. Majority of town wants me lynched. The rest I am thinking as town (except Shotty).
4. What do you mean by this?

[Konowa]

See, now this is where I am having a problem. I do not see the consistency between this train of thought and you [Doombunny] listing sABeR as your number one scum at the end of D1.

Walk me through how you agree with most of the reasons brought up against saber, but it was not enough for you to want to lynch him, but he was still number one on your scum list end of D1.

[forbiddanlight]

Lol if DB is scum so is Net. There's no two sides about it at all.

Elaborate?

Why?

Also, why is Doombunny scum? Here is a hint, saying go look at his iso does not count as an answer.

Has anyone read and responded to what I posted on DB?

Obvious, obvious coaching at times keeping him in line. Defending him like a mad man while feeling no scrutiny for his claim.

Is he defending him? I seem him attacking you to provide reasoning. That doesn't defend DB

1. The joking
2. Indecision with easily back outs
3. Going after only the ones who go after him
4. "Dumb or Scum" questions

Elaborate. Why are these scummy?

[Netopalis]

FL, if it was in your wall of text, I didn't, because I felt that the responses were contained in my responses to Konowa on the same page.

You make two arguments and point to two posts by DB that implicate him as scum. These posts are 758 and 802. I'm not sure why you find 758 to be scummy, and your accompanying commentary ("reminds me of why I wanted to vote DB in the first place") doesn't help much. 802...he's still renewing his suspicion of Saber/ABR, but he's adding suspects. I'm not entirely sure what's wrong with that. Wishy-washy? I'd prefer to think that it's the effect of the replacement. ABR has done a much better job in this game than Saber ever did. Backpedaling...Maybe. Again, though, I don't feel that it's enough to call him scum.

[Netopalis]

Oh, and while we're at it...I'll come out and say it. I'm defending DB, so long as the claims against him

are still this weak

. Once I hear a good reason to lynch him, I'll go with it, but all of the things that I've heard thus far are paper-thin. It bothers me to think that we've almost lynched someone for two consecutive days based on this terrible, terrible logic. It rather reminds me of the Monty Python Burn the Witch scene...

[forbiddanlight]

FL, if it was in your wall of text, I didn't, because I felt that the responses were contained in my responses to Konowa on the same page.

It was in my wall of text. I guess I'll ask for a requote of your response.

You make two arguments and point to two posts by DB that implicate him as scum. These posts are 758 and 802. I'm not sure why you find 758 to be scummy, and your accompanying commentary ("reminds me of why I wanted to vote DB in the first place") doesn't help much. 802...he's still renewing his suspicion of Saber/ABR, but he's adding suspects. I'm not entirely sure what's wrong with that. Wishy-washy? I'd prefer to think that it's the effect of the replacement. ABR has done a much better job in this game than Saber ever did. Backpedaling...Maybe. Again, though, I don't feel that it's enough to call him scum.

The two posts I point to are posts between my last post and the post I made there. Those aren't the only scummy posts overall.


IIRC, I also found a lot of useless D1, with most of his posts being noise. I'll look to see if I can find that post.

[forbiddanlight]

This wall

And

This wall

Are more of my reasonings, from back on D1.

[Netopalis]

Ok, now THIS is much, much better. Sorry that I missed these posts earlier, or we could have saved a few pages of discussion....

Noncommittal, when the posts are lined up like that, does definitely show a pattern of connection to Saber/ABR. If Saber/ABR flips scum, then DB almost certainly is. However, this is assuming that Saber/ABR flips scum, and he's not really been discussed that much today.

As for the fail-town call, I think we've seen it used enough today and appropriately enough that I don't have to explain why I feel that it's a null-tell.

Therefore, I think we should revisit this discussion if and when ABR or DB flips.

[Doombunny9]

Walk me through how you agree with most of the reasons brought up against saber, but it was not enough for you to want to lynch him, but he was still number one on your scum list end of D1.

Ok then, on day one I guess you can say that I was thinking about Saber kindof like the way Neto is thinking about me now (there are a few differances but they should be easy to pick out). For me, most of the reasoning behind the votes were weak. I did however, find him scummy for a lot of them. I did not support a lynch on him though because most of the reasons were weak. Now then, as you can probably see by reading me in iso, I didn't see anyone else that scummy (with the exception of Amished for his unthoughtful, weak posts when he first started posting but that was even weaker than the reasons for Saber) Therefor, saber was my number one choice. Now, in the beginning of this day I reread everyone in iso to pick out more people that I thought were scummy. The two people I found were Chaco and SSK. I hope that helps.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, now THIS is much, much better. Sorry that I missed these posts earlier, or we could have saved a few pages of discussion....

I forgot I made them, actually.

Sorry ^-^;

[Netopalis]

FL: Do you feel that Chaco's and Konowa's...questionable posts in support of a DB lynch are a misunderstanding/failure to understand the arguments for the wagon, or do you find them to be opportunistic scum?

Also, unfortunately, a lot of this game seems to hinge on reads on Saber/ABR. His lynch, while not necessarily scummy, would give us a ton of information. On the other hand, it's lynching a player who's actually done very well today. I'd like everybody to comment on this idea, as I think that the results would be rather interesting.