Obv scum
@fuzzylightning: Explain why self-voting is detrimental to the town.
From a scum perspective, since I trust you to not be voting someone you believe is town.
constraints of meta ^-^forbiddan, you're voting the mod?
Ok. But that presupposes the person self voting is town. And if they are town, why would one be voting them? It's essentially anti-town as opposed to precisely scummy. rather annoying to deal with, no?It was more a joke than anything as we are in the RVS but I believe that if you are voting for yourself, then you really aren't helping the town if you are town, because that's a vote that could be used to catch scum.
Fair enough, fair enough. and I'll even let you off with your RVS excuse .Which is why I said detrimental to the town as opposed to scummy
Hey, sometimes you win prizes when you do it in Tar games. Rumor has it that it occasionally works in fl games as well. Kairyuu, at least, is not a spoilsport and also allows non player targets to be targetted. That is...assumably non player targets
Voting for the mod in the RVS is something that happens often enough that its not really something that people comment on all that much, as its just a way to keep the mod on their toes, however it would be interesting to push for a mod lynch, just kidding.
Actually, that would be scummy if it was to end RVS. Rather, artificially end it.
As for Archons vote, I don't think it's really scummy if it was just to get him out of RVS. Now if he was pushing to lynch himself well...I can see how that would be bad
Usually things that naturally end the RVS provide more information. Artificial ends deprive us of that information.
Why would it be scummy to artificially end the RVS? it pushes the game forward, something that always happens at some point or another when someone begins to ask questions.
Correct. Or, rather, the length is loosely expressed as "until someone accidentally screws up". At least, that's my view. An artificial ending caused by a self vote is one I tend to try to ignore. If they claim they were trying to end then my ears perk up.
How would ending the RVS be scummy? Or, as you say, artificially. There is no required length to the RVS.
Yep, I don't think so either. You might have been aware of my meta at best.
You bold the wrong portion of my quote. Italicized is mine. I am not friends with forbiddan outside of the game, in fact, I am not sure that we have ever interacted prior to being in this game.
Well, that's their problem. Probably so. They can either demonstrate their meta or their towniness.
Mhm, however, some players do not like the RVS at all and feel it is pointless to have one. Would your ears perk if a type of player such as that were present?
I'm guessing you agree with my stance but I believe I was asked. What brings you into this discussion?The problem with ending the RVS so early is we did not get an insight on every single player. Prematurely ending the RVS allows players and mostly scum to just hop on BW with no questions asked. If the RVS had been allowed to run a little longer, we would of maybe seen some interesting votes and reasons for them from EVERYBODY. Then we could of acted accordingly.
I could care less. This is an outdated screenname anyway. I'm not like Virgilia (gapgapgap!)Alright, Forbiddan. (Also, a side question. Do you have a preference on what you want your name shortened as? Some people gripe when I shorten it to things they do not like.)
This does not guarantee you are not part of the game"Lynching a being not part of the game will result in a No Lynch"
WIFOM at best. For now the self vote is a null tell in my eyes.I would have to say that I think Archon is town. The reason being most scum would not want to draw attention to themselves. I have self voted for myself in RVS as town, so I can see Archon doing it too.
You really need to play Tar games
hehe, I've never been able to do that before....
With an insanity level of five I doubt the mod is actually playing.
Actually though, I think I like my vote...chaco was claiming he voted the mod just to see what the vote count would look like. Some of us began speculating whether the mod was really playing or not...here's a good way to find out. If there is a similar looking result for this as there was for the mod BW, then I'll conclude that the mod is indeed not playing, and switch my vote onto somebody else.
Well, I wouldn't mind seeing more content but yeah ^-^Ok, chaco, forbiddan, and kikuchiyo are you only voting saber/me for the jokes we made? If so that seems like a very horrible reason and I will give my FoS out to you for that. If not I want all of the reasons you have for voting us.
I like this ^-^. I don't mind using meta to implicate someone but it's pointless to use it to clear them.TBH I'm sort of an anti-meta player, I judge by the actions you make in this game. I don't care if you act scummy all the time, if you act scummy here I'm going to push your lynch. I dislike people trying to 'disguise' their meta by playing worse as town so they can play better as mafia.
This is a good question.
Why are you voting Neo looker?
Are you serious?
Don't like this at all.
Seems like a scum attempt to find VIPs to pick off.
Oh...
I have an incredibly improbable role. You might be able to call it a power role...it is extremely useful, but not in the usual way. That being said, if I claim it under threat of lynch, I am almost positive that nobody will believe said claim. Is claiming worthwhile or no? Normally, I wouldn't ask this question, but it's a claim that I think is practically unprecedented and *may* have been in the Worst Roles Ever thread....
Are you...Alright. Guess I might as well at this point. I'm a Miller NK-Immune One-shot vig. The vig is one-shot, the rest of the roles are permanent.
This one is an odd oneNight vig. And I've been debating claiming since the early game.....I knew that this role was better out in the open, but I wasn't sure how it would be accepted as a D1 claim without lynch pressure...But if I claim under lynch-pressure, there's no way anyone would believe that.
His claim should actually be a null tell...but...given his join date, he wouldn't know the reference, so I actually lean "almost confirmed town"
impressive, and conveniently safe...
the only problem is during endgame you're gonna be a high suspect.
I'm not sure what to make of it for now, but for now I suppose I'll believe him.
That makes a hell of a lot of sense actually.Flavor: Alexander Anderson. Note that I've only watched the first episode, so I don't know much about him....
Watched the anime and OVAs. I want to read the manga, but yeah.
Question for everybody: Who has watched Hellsing (either watched the anime, read the anime, or watched the OVAs, or any combination of the three?)
Explain why this dichotomy is true?One more quick thing, I don't like how forbiddan thinks neto is "almost clear". People are either clear or not and Neto is far from clear.
What was it...Oman's title? Or was it Thok?Uh...You're right, I absolutely don't. Is it a reference to a previous game?
the NK immune seems to be...problematic for that maybe?1) 265 is the most sensible post in regards to the claim. Seems like it took forever for someone to realize it. I am a believer in early vig claims, and I think the shot should be taken early as well. Mafia is a numbers game and reducing the lynch pool is an effective strategy. That said, Net cannot be taken to a lylo situation, FoS to those stating it good for him to wait until an assumed mylo/lylo, and I propose the simplest option- Net self vig's night one. Problem solved. Thoughts?
True enough. I've already explained why I lean "PROBABLY true" on him though.By simply claiming miller you could have used your other abilities to towns advantage. As it stands, if you are who you say you are, then you are going to be nothing more than a distraction unless scum is extremely vanilla. Having watched the ani,e, I highly doubt that. I'm fine with you taking a shot, but you definitely should be lynched at some point. The only thing which confirms players in this game is a sane "godfatherless" investigation, or a flip.
It's argued back and forth, actually.
Second, I was getting my information from the wiki. The wiki does not include a discussion of the D1 claim, although there is one sentence in there that hints at it. I didn't know that it was an established "rule", though.
Hey now, I've made a game with that role before and run it. Not TOO many people complained.If there was a death miller I might cry.
I suppose this is a fair point.Amished wrote: I still stand by Net's kill being directed and sooner rather than later. While it could be argued that we'll tell the scum who not to kill, we're not going to pick somebody pro-town that the scum would want to get rid of, instead we'll pick somebody scummy (or inactive, as how I generally would like inactives to be dealt with) that the scum would like to keep alive to generate mislynches (if our target is town); or inactives that will slow the game down and therefore helping the scum.
Makes sensekono wrote: As far as the claim goes and him possibly being a NK-Immune SK instead of Miller NK-Immune One-Shot Vig at this point I suggest we treat it as a normal miller claim. If he acts scummy, lynch him. The way he claimed it leads me to believe him though.
I get the impression it's stuff like this that makes people tie doombunny to saber.db wrote: Saber seems more of a fail town (no offence) to me and I while I see why people want to lynch him I don't agree with parts of it.
How skillfully to have it both waysdb wrote: He has been helping the town recently and before he was making jokes. Not really scummy to me.However, he wasn't helping town out much which is why I labeled him as Fail Town.
Why was this again?looker wrote: unvote
vote Archon
(You were my original vote)
I...suppose it can be interpreted like this...db wrote: Recently he has been helping town
Earlier he was fooling around and not helping town.
This is a quality question that needs to be secondedAmish wrote: @Doom: What of Saber do you classify as helping the town? Does his earlier unhelpfulness outweigh his recent helping? Is he fail-town or still scummy? Scummy-town?
So you have no scum reads at this point?Looker wrote:About Archon, I want a vote out there (it strikes me as a stock market thing), but if I'm going to have one out there, I'd rather keep it on the same person than keep switching because all I'll ever do is log on, switch my vote, and log off. It's like a duty...that's sad...
You don't? Funny, I see it more now.kiku wrote:
I am becoming convinced we have this wrong. I will post more tomorrow, but I don't see the Doom/saber scum connection anymore.
I do not like this. I want this remembered, however, so that we can press him on it later. Right now it seems to be trying to get a free pass on not thinking.kiku wrote: @ Archon: Yes, I am witholding thoughts I think may be more harmful than beneficial at this point. I will gladly revisit the subject when/if necessary and can offer loads of evidence for you. For now I have moved on.
Then who should be lynched?db wrote: He's been generally helping town (asking good questions, giving good descriptions and explaining actions etc.) Starting at post 123. His unhelpfulness does not outweigh his recent helping but he is redeeming himself. He is scummy of course but I'm saying he's just a bad townie because joking around does not make me feel he needs to be lynched.
May I ask what the point of having a vote out is if it blatantly has no pressure value and you obviously aren't going for the lynch? You make your vote worthlessLooker wrote: But I mean if no one votes then we'll never get anywhere, so I try to at least keep a vote on the board. It's not like I'm riding bandwagons.
Well, Amished already said what I wanted to say to this. But basically the idea is if you don't keep at least some level of analysis going you'll get backlogged like mad and be forced to revise whatever your super analysis is once you finish it.Looker wrote: Because it's not a race, where the first person to do something scummy would get my vote. I'm trying to give everyone ample enough time to have their input before going through and analyzing everything, because there will forever be new developments.
Yeeeeahh...I'm just waiting for a chainsaw to seal the deal ^-^
Pretty old news here. I don't like this question at all. The buddying and defending between saber and Doom, and the discussion thereof, has taken up the majority of the day. Not quite sure how you missed it.
So when do you vote someone for being scum? How do you determine that they are scum if people who "act like scum" can be town?db wrote:
I said he was scummy, I never said I thought he was scum. When I someone is scummy it means that they are acting like scum, not nessesarily that they are scum. While he isn't comepletly cleared of being scum I feel that joking isn't enough to get a vote from me.
Elaborate on this?db wrote: I feel that you may be scum or at least scummy (see before). Your attacks on people with weak evidence seems really scummy to me but, like saber you are becoming less scummy to me with your more helpful posts. Some of your questions are good but others just seem like fluff that doesn't really help or hurt the town.
Oh how helpful, thank you ^-^I believe Saber's 154 is what you're looking for.
Laziness. And I voted him with a TV trope. That's just too awesome to ignore.Why doombunny over Saber? Personally, I am fine with either, but would prefer Saber over doombunny.
That's fair. I mean, if saber ends up needing a hammer, I'll switch.As awesome as it is, not worthy of my vote switching over. So it will stay.
Nyeh, I haven't been paying as much attention as I should, but I did see a few things indeed.
@forbiddan: You're welcome Wink I saw that right away, but I was rather into the discussion at that point.
OkI'm leaning on Looker myself but I'm still going to wait and hear more from him before I put a vote down.
But why is it scummy if you don't think scum would do it?I vote for someone when I have good reasons to. Joking is Not a good reason. Maybe I wasn't so clear on this part but I've said it a lot before. Joking around is scummy. It is not lynchworthy. It seems like failtown to me because it was scummy but not scummy enough to get a vote from me.
I don't think I've seen much fluff from AmishedWhat more do you want me to say? Amished was attacking me, saber, and neo with weak points such as "You were joking around" and "You wern't here for a while". Lately he has been giving better arguements and helping town more. Some of his questions toward me were good with others such as the one I answered here "Are my questions good" seem like fluffy questions that have no point here.
Nyeh, it's technically a statement we can hold him to.Who are you to say you don't do fluff amished? That's for us to decide.
To be fair I was caught as scum once thanks to RVS interactions. Shit sucked.Shotty wrote: I doubt that people's alignment affect their behavior in random voting stage, once we're past RVS the first couple pages are rarely mentioned in the later days.
Or meta fulfilling votesAmished wrote:
I think it's more likely that scum start off the game with admittedly completely random votes so they can't be held accountable at all for them...
Do you seriously think this? I mean...what's the gain? Numbers are generally BETTER than townie cred, since you tend to lose the latter in endgame, but having your numbers remain around is more likely to serve you well.db wrote:
Higher than you think. Scum will sometimes vote their scumpartner in the RVS to bus them and defend themselves later.
Nah, actually, my meta for voting the mod merely means that I do it regardless of alignment.Amished wrote:
I was making a point that doombunny made an admittedly random vote (from random.org) and is more likely scum because of it, but if you want to claim scum because you have a meta for certain votes, I'll take that too...
Yes
To the other 4 (forb, kiku, shotty, and chaco): would you consider voting the other if necessary?
I haven't analyzed that deeply. At the moment I think they both are so tied to each other the information given by either flip approaches equal.Is your current vote the one you think will produce the most information with a scumflip?
I could care less either way. I've raegquit games like that before, as either alignment, so I don't think we can conclude anything there. I'll support a saber lynch if we decide to take him out before he gets replaced. I've already expressed that I feel the information will be equal if we lynch either. For the sheer idea of getting a longer time to discuss stuff I think I favor doombunny.
I'd like to hear Forbiddan, Net, and Looker's thoughts.
/me missed thisI was all for a saber lynch up till Doom's complete 180 in 408.
I'm sure there is a trope for this. It isn't quite sarcatic confession but comes close. I am amused .
Sup!
Doombunny, can you givbe me a summarization of the game please?
Is that too many?
3 killing roles in a small theme. o.k.
Isn't he one shot?
The only thing that could go wrong with this whole thing is, what if there is no vig and Neto is sctually a SK? His normal killing can be passed off as a vig kill, he's going to look guilty when copped, and the bulletproof could be a specail power he has or he just doesn't want to be killed by maf.
If we lynch either saber or doombunny, and they are scum, will you vig the other?
I'm not going to use my vig N1. I think that the arguments for me using it are rather weak and flippant - Yeah, sure, we lose a townie. Big whoop. I honestly can't believe I'm hearing that....It makes 10X more sense to use it later when there is more information and when I have a reasonable suspicion of another player. In general, day 1 lynches are crapshoots anyway.
I...guess that's understandable.In that case I might make an exception, because I would have a decent reason for using it. While I think the link is tenuous, it would be extremely valuable to catch scum earlier. I'd have to think hard about it....That being said, I'd rather not say in thread definitely who and when I'm targeting, just in case of a mafia doctor.
Saber was replaced by SSK
Mod: Requesting replacement for Saberwolf. If this requires a deadline extension then I request that as well.
Oh, hi, missed this claim.
Anyway, I am Sir Integra Hellsing, leader of the war against vampires, and an informed townie meaning at the end of every night I get to know how many vampires are alive because I am so awesome at recognizing them. The end.
Besides the fact that I've made important people falseclaims for scum (and will continue to do so), and db's scummy behavior, nope, guess I've just been scummy.Sir Integra is a major part of every series and somebody you expect to be in the game. Not as a safe claim, as a real claim. Unless you have more evidence than "oh, it's a likely fake claim" I'm gonna hold 533 as the scummiest thing you've said.
You do realize I'm implying he DOES NOT HAVE THIS ABILITY! That he's a goon who will just report, true or false, how many people are in his faction.Say that DB didn't have to claim. How does scum benefit from knowing how many vampires are out there? I don't see how that benefits the scum moreso than the town to make it a fakeclaim.
I give credence on a case by case basic. Amished apparently believes DBAmished, if we're not going to give any credence to claims, what's the point in asking for them?
There are good and bad vampires. However, I suspect the scum are vampires and Alucard's a red herring if he's in this game at all.@Forb: Look at the theme; there's clearly pro-town and anti-town vampires in the Hellsing mythos. To let a townie know how many people are vampires makes more sense than to let the scum know, especially considering we don't actually know what we're up against (could make a case for the manufactured vampires, the nazi's, and a couple other things that we're "against"). That's why I believe DB.
Thank you. At least you understand.536 is a bit silly. I think the implication there was clear. Its an easy fakeclaim as scum because scum could easily slide by with a reasonable number according to the flavor.
I think he'll have to pick something realistic. It'll be WIFOM after that but we can mind a little data out of what he says.So, since you feel DB is a goon, you think he'll tell the truth about anything and it's worth leaving him alive since you're not voting for him?
Actually, I have several theories for that. One, she isn't in the game, as you say. Why is this unbelievable? Wouldn't that make the set up that much harder to break?So my nameclaim means nothing now? I can see how my role could be crappy (it is -_-) but saying Integra Hellsing isn't in the game is just, well, unfuckingbeleivable.
Most of them, yes. But even if they are in the game do they all have to be good?It may still be balanced with work by a mod (and I'm not particularly commenting on that) but my point is that the main characters *are in the game*.
I fully expect you to put your ideas out there whether you'll convince me of anything or not. And I see your logic, I just think mine makes more sense given DB's actions.I'm not saying that flavor makes you guilty or innocent as that would make the setup breakable; but combine my belief that Integra would be in the game with an ability that doesn't make sense as scum. I don't know if that makes sense; hell, I don't think I'll even convince you {forb} but I'm putting my ideas out to see if everyone thinks I'm on crazy pills or if I make sense.
Oh, sorry. Well, either way, I don't think his ability is as he says.(Your first question is answered by the first line in the 2nd quote box, btw)
On what?@Chaco: Yes, but I want to hear forbs opinions too.
I expressed those as well. Let him live today, make him give us results tomorrow, and determine whether we should lynch/vig him by behavior.He means on Doombunny.
Oh. Maybe I should get working on those ^-^.No, regarding your suspicions on him to make you believe he's scum.
Something like that. I think no matter how ABR flips we need to keep DB alive til Day 2 at least.So would you disagree to a Doombunny lynch today? And then a look into Saber/ABR? Flip dependent vigging perhaps?
I love how you cut out the relevant part.
I don't see how I'm saying I'm not scum.
Even jokes can be presented in such a way that you are trying to imply that it's impossible for you to be scum. I do not recall tacking on the second part.Post 9-There is a huge difference between a joke and an actual "theres no way I could be scum. Anybody who says otherwise must be scum!" Mine was the joke.
They increase in scumminess as the game starts moving. The game had started moving.
10+11-From what I saw. That was the only reason they were voting me. Jokes still aren't scummy.
That's classified information.
As for you, you seem to have made mostly fluffy posts for the beginning of the game up until just recently really. What I find weird about this is that you find someones nameclaim scummy without really backing it up. If you think that Integra isn't town sided than why? This has been nagging me for a while yet you and chaco just seem to go with it.
Asking questions is great. Asking questions that have no real point to determining town and scum is not great.
21-So I'm not supposed to ask questions. Bad question, eh, maybe. Distracting the game from myself, no.
Yet you also said you thought he was town. But whatever, we've belabored this.
24-I have said this so many times...Saber is scummy yes, Would I be fine with his lynch? Yes. If I could choose anyone to lynch would it be saber? No.
I'll probably drop this because by this point I was moving rather quickly through your posts given the content or lack thereof of the rest of them
40-Was asking if I should claim or not. Not much more than that.