The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[hohum]

/confirm

[hohum]

mrifnoc\

/confirm1

Too bad I can't edit my posts so I can do something witty and/or funny like:

o/rnicmf

[hohum]

Vote: Lamont_Cranston

because that's a name I would expect someone to have if they were a mafia pimp.

[hohum]

ROFL

[hohum]

I have to ask, are you a SilkyJohnson alt or in some way in the running for hater of the year?

If the answer is no, why the sudden vote change in the RVS.

[hohum]

I'm voting you for humor value. It's what one does while one resides within the cozy confines of the random voting stage.

How is it that you're already managing to draw conclusions?

[hohum]

Naomi: that wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the pimp.

[hohum]

Conclusions are a natural result of the flow of the game which begins when the first pixel hits after day 1 begins.

Do you think the natural course of a game with 19 people in it (most of whom haven't chimed in yet BTW) warrants drawing conclusions 3 pages into day 1?

The question is, "What conclusion have I drawn?"

And the answer is, "We shall see."

Right, so what conclusions have you drawn? Because when you say stuff like:

2) I like the way she is thinking here and because of that I have joined her on the best vote I can see this early in the game.

Therefore my vote is no longer "random".

It would lead one to believe within a reasonable degree of accuracy that you have A) drawn a conclusion and B) felt justified in your vote.

If you're just full shit and you're really not happy with your vote that's fine too. Just say so. Nobody is going to pester you about a vote change this early in the game.

Being all mysterious about your intentions by repeating my questions is not the right approach, though.

[hohum]

I'm done trying. I think I'll camp here with my vote for a little while.

[hohum]

circumlocution |ˌsərkəmˌlōˈkyoō sh ən|
noun

the use of many words where fewer would do, esp. in a deliberate attempt to be vague or evasive : his admission came after years of circumlocution | he used a number of poetic circumlocutions.

DERIVATIVES
circumlocutory |-ˈläkyəˌtôrē| |ˈˈsərkəmˈˈlɑkjəˈtɔri| |-ˈlɒkjʊt(ə)ri| adjective

ORIGIN late Middle English : from Latin circumlocutio(n-) (translating Greek periphrasis), from circum ‘around’ + locutio(n-) from loqui ‘speak.

If you don't have a dictionary installed on your personal computer, there's always http://www.webster.com

[hohum]

You're welcome, vocabulary boy.

[hohum]

Now you're just showing off your leet dictionary word-looking-up skills.

I don't really see any correlation between that post in anything going on in the game though.

[hohum]

oh wow! I just drowned in my own irony!

[hohum]

Enough with the spastic voting please, at least until more people have had a chance to discover the fact that the game has begun.

[hohum]

dude, I'm so going to start referring to you as "Amish Ed"

Remind me to plop a post down in the Title Fairy thread when this game is over.

LOL

[hohum]

Well, now that I've read over what I missed...
I see there was a vocabulary education session.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. I don't think anyone coming into the game could have followed the mindless drivel of the last four pages without your insightful recap.

Unvote, Vote Naomi_Saotome

Might as well get the scum hunting started. We've all been a tad too friendly with each other and we've still got scum to lynch.

[hohum]

SWEET, score with the OMGUS vote!

Can you drop some more scum tells please?

[hohum]

I wanted to get him to admit his vote was baseless.

Cudos for pointing that out, because now I have to admit my vote is baseless. It was a vote for pressure, and it worked because you dropped a scum tell.

This is good fodder for my scum point log.

[hohum]

BTW, why so defensive so early? Why not do some scum hunting instead of playing this aggressive defensive game?

[hohum]

you're not scum hunting. You're color commentating.

[hohum]

Static probabilities actually dictate D1 play. We've got a better chance of lynching scum tomorrow if we mis-lynch today rather than no-lynch.

Of course calling for a no-lynch before anyone has had a chance to discuss anythign is generally considered a newbie-scum tell

[hohum]

Ya static probabilities suck. The village loses before the odds get good anyway. We as village have to BEAT the odds by logical elimination/deduction.

You sound like you're trying to steer the town rather than scum hunt.

FoS

[hohum]

oops
wrong quote

[hohum]

EBWOP:

Well ALL I'm REALLY saying is I'd like us all to work as a team to start identifying likely scum/lynch candidates and get the village moving in a healthy direction.

My player read is divided into two sections:

a) Top scummy players
b) Inactive/semi-lurking players

The B-list I have posted.

You sound like you're trying to steer the town rather than scum hunt.

FoS

[hohum]

Relax. We'll get to it. These things always run their natural course. It doesn't make sense to go very far right now while we're still waiting for people to chime in because they'll just be that much further behind.

Steering is bad. I automatically distrust anyone who tries as a matter of policy.

[hohum]

If you want to sit here and poke people with your stick in the mean time I don't have an issue with that either. Scum hunting is always productive.

[hohum]

more productive than banter at any rate.

I know this is a large game so I'll try to cut down on my multi-posting.

[hohum]

Oh BTW Lamont:

I noticed you're still voting me. You've had at least 12 hours to make up some justification, so let's hear it.

[hohum]

I want you to get specific instead of speaking in generalizations.

Please, don't refrain.

[hohum]

50% town eh?

At least you're an optimist.

You could have said 50% scum.

[hohum]

Pyromaniac: we need scum hunting, not commentary.

[hohum]

Because I have nobody else to take jabs at. Why not let him answer the question before you tear me down? I don't need you running interference on me.

[hohum]

oh I'm sorry he did answer the question.

[hohum]

noone has done anything lynch worth imo

I'm tired of this sentiment from the newbie scummers.

Sitting back and observing =/= actively contributing.

[hohum]

neat.

Take: Decanter

[hohum]

doh.

[hohum]

SCORE!!!!

[hohum]

I guess being a thief paid off.

[hohum]

I guess being a thief paid off.

Mmmm. Did you steal Xtoxm item?

I guess being a best boy didnt pay off.

I think that's what happened. I got a PM describing what's in the decanter.

It's a mysterious red liquid. I can either drink it or give it to someone else to drink.

[hohum]

Correct. I have no clue what it does. I'm going to hang on to the decanter for a while and give it to someone who pisses me off.

[hohum]

I doubt it. Look at the mod's drop message. "First come first serve"

It's only logical to conclude that I wound up with it because I'm a theif.

Depending on what's actually in the decanter, I could potentially become a dayviging thief. It's a role that suits my personality well -- really.

Either way if I don't know what's in it then I'm not drinking it personally, even if it means I'll be helping someone else.

[hohum]

item PM says force.

[hohum]

Knew? No. Guessed? Yes.

[hohum]

I'll happily drink it.

As tempting as it would be to get you the hell out of this game, I think I'll hang on to it for now.

[hohum]

12. All public job descriptions are flavour only, and bear no relation to roles, or lack thereof.

thanks mod.

[hohum]

Sajin:

The mod already put the theif debate to rest and pointed the edit out to the rest of the group. Thanks for pretending to be helpful though -- really.

[hohum]

I'm willing to accept input from others. Sure. I don't think it has to be anything as formal as a vote. An informal staw poll would do.

I swiped it though, so I guess it's up to me.

If you had the opportunity to pick a recpient now, who would it be and why?

[hohum]

Devistation: It's reasonable to expect other people to be vocal about my actions.

I wasn't sniping at him for doing so. If you were reading you would have realized that I mistakenly called him out because I didn't see Lamont's answer right away.

Happy now?

[hohum]

I agree with steph. All premutations as to the potential effects lead to WIFOM.

[hohum]

Many things are WIFOM, your point? Its still beneficial information. I would still like to know your intent before you give/force it on someone. I am not going to vote you for being wrong about the effects. I will vote you for not declaring your intent on an action.

You're approaching this as if you're not going to have a say or like I've already made a decision. I've already said that I'm going to take input from the group before I make a decision.

[hohum]

Seriously?

Vote me then. Because I don't KNOW whether it's a positive or negative effect. The item PM doesn't fucking say.

[hohum]

Why? What good will my speculating do?

[hohum]

I'm down with that.

Unvote, Vote Sajin

At least until he can sufficiently explain how speculation is effective scum hunting.

[hohum]

Speculation is just that: speculation. Nothing good could possibly come from any of us trying to game the mod. I'd suggest you stop.

[hohum]

So you're ok with something that you don't care to speculate on (so therefore you admit that it *can* be very bad) and to allow that to go to somebody that potentially might balance the town side due to randomness? (since even in the flavor/sign-ups the mod said that this game is probably not going to be that fair to the town) I prefer not to take chances in a closed setup that's somewhat bastardized already, and probably balanced somewhat against the town, just judging from my knowledge of the x games a stranger series.

Another question: What happens in the case that we give it to the volunteer, if they do guess/know what the effects of the potion are? We then all find out (probably) what the effects of the potion are, and if the effects are that good, would you not then have a target for suspicion? If the effects are then good, and then are used in what we can all agree to be a pro-town way would that not also be good?

Do you just have something against xtoxm getting the potion? In all cases, I'm still failing to see a good form of logic out of you.

I made a joke in passing about potentially giving the decanter to xtoxm but I'm not the one who pointedly said he shouldn't get it. In fact I've never stated definitively what I intend to do with the decanter other than to say I'm willing to take input from the town on what that decision should be. You're deliberately misattributing and shoving words into my mouth now.

If you don't want to take the chance then I'm fine hanging onto the decanter until it goes poof.

Even if I give it to someone and it doesn't result in instantaneous suicide, he or she can always lie about what it does if it suits their whims.

If you want my OPINION as to what should be done then you should just come right out and ask me instead of trying to beat me over the head with vague and convoluted questions.

My opinion is based partly on rule #12. If our titles bear no relevance other than flavor, then one could reasonably conclude that the setup is pretty vanilla -- and at minimum balanced. You even pointed this out.

There are very well established best practices for dealing with vanilla setups. In this case the special mechanic to this game are these random items that are going to appear throughout our stay in the manor. As of right now they're the only special mechanic of the game that is apparent.

Truth is we have no idea what these gifts are going to do, so we should discard them and treat the setup as if it were a vanilla setup.

[hohum]

@Hohum: 254 (which you quoted) was directed at Sajin in 252, not you in 253. Might make things more clear. I was continuing to scoff at his suggestions, and actually agreeing with you.

My sincerest apologies then.

[hohum]

There's some merit to turning someone into a guinea pig on D1 so we can figure out if these gifts are potentially helpful or not, but it's a permutation which also leads to some fair amount of WIFOM because there's some mod gaming that you have to take into account to figure out if all these gifts are going to be helpful or if some of them are going to be harmful.

I'm still in favor of letting them go poof.

[hohum]

At least I'm in favor of letting THIS one go poof. Perhaps the next Item PM will be a little less vague.

[hohum]

Please take not of my sig. I will catch up on monday.

[hohum]

I'm back. I will catch up today.

[hohum]

I'm only up to page 20 and I've already accumulated a text wall. This has been an ehausting re-read so far.

You all post too much.

[hohum]

Okay, there's not WHOLE lot worth commenting on after page 20: mostly back and fourth Re: the decanter, so I won't attempt to try. It will only further distort the discussion. This means I could have posted this earlier. Also sorry for such a large post in such a busy game, but a lot has happened over the weekend worth commenting on.

I find it odd that hohum says he's waiting to use it on ?someone "who he doesn't like"

This was a passing joke, and I've since clarified my position as well. For you to sit there and maintain that this is my stance is almost a joke in of itself. Also the comments I'm about to make to alabaska are relevant to this.

For my opinion of the performance of these players, please see my wiki.

Why not just post it in the thread? You can change your wiki page which alters the historical perspective of this game, and that's bad. If you have anything relevant to say then it needs to be said in-thread.

Anyway, my wiki stated that if a person is a semi-lurker (posting content just frequently enough to avoid replacement and said content is not analysis which helps the town) I will advocate their lynch mercilessly. Total lurkers I will let replace however.

You're advocating a D1 policy lynch while quite a lively discussion is going on about other things. I only advocate policy lynches when there are no better or safer-looking lynch targets. This point-of-fact statement has the feel of an attempt to derail the discussion.

I'll happily drink it.

As tempting as it would be to get you the hell out of this game, I think I'll hang on to it for now.

any reason behind this hostility?

It was mostly a passing joke; however, having played with him before I'm somewhat familiar with his maturity level. I was trying to goad him into either getting emotional or bringing meta into the discussion so that I could work on getting him to drop some scum tells. He did neither. Instead he took a parting shot at me and went about his business.

He definitely isn't playing like the Xtoxm that I have grown to know and wince at.

Agreed. i really don't like hohum's stance on not using the items, or Lamont's backing of it.

First of all you used the word items, plural. The only thing I've said for sure that I am supportive of letting THIS one go.

Secondly, my stance has never been as hardline as yours is and as you seem to interpret my position. Frankly, I'm wary of anyone taking a hard-line stance right now (even of those who actually agree with me) considering the sheer volume of WIFOM that has gone into this discussion.

===============
Anyone who is basing their argument on the notion that the town is over powered is either scum or bread crumbing that they have a power role. Stop it. Now.

I will not be responsible for any sanity flips, killing of useful role, removing power or roleblocking that I may or may not receive from drinking the it. I will not be responsible for any harm that comes to the town from me drinking.

Sounds like you're setting yourself up for deniability later. Definitely a scum tactic. I would put you in the former category for this post.

Also,

FoS Naimoi.

for 287, giving one person to much power this early in the game is just a bad idea. I didn't see this until now.

Translation:

Naomi is building a case to advocate my lynch. Let me go back and re-read her in isolation and see what I can pick out to discredit her

This and the justification for your Pablo vote are a very knee-jerk reactions.

Then you jump back onto Naomi with some more weak reasoning.

Summary:

Pyromaniac is obvscum, naomi comes off as looking slightly noobtown and Sajin's lynch can be postponed for now.

Unvote, Vote: Pyromaniac

===============
The generally touted notion that the dice roll can't be fixed is correct; however, they that doesn't mean that they can't be faked and it's been proven that they can before.

Amish Ed hinted on this earlier and I think it needs to be reinforced. The basic principle behind this game is an informed minority Vs. and uninformed majority, so it is possible (though guessing the probability involves mod-gaming) that the scum team has inside knowledge of what these gifts will do. Also if this person does survive, there's no motivation for them to be truthful about the effects if they're scum because there's really no apparent way to verify the truth currently. For these reasons alone I'm unsupportive of giving the decanter to anyone who has asked for it.

Sajin goes off into a craplogic tangent in post 450. That's all I have to say about that one.

People keep relating not using an unknown effect item to a no-lynch. I really want to see a solid reasonable connection between the two, because I feel that they're *nothing* alike.

QFT. Devestation's response one post later sort of avoids the original point or is answering a different question that Amish Ed asked. I'd like to know which.

I need to do some work later to correlate this but it seems like the same people who are trying to connect "decanter goes poof" with "D1 no-lynch" are the same people who volunteered to drink the decanter's contents. It goes a long way towards backing up the theory that scum have inside knowledge of what's in the decanter.

[hohum]

I didn't fake leave. You can check my posting history. I dropped ALL my games, including the one I was modding. I had a real life crisis to deal with. This is the first game I've caught up in and that alone took the better part of 5 hours to read and analyze 10 pages worth of random accusations and decanter banter.

And btw what do you think about random assignment vs town-wide voting?

Would you accept a two-phase voting where the two top town chosen people are identified and then everyone votes on A or B?

I think the decanter banter is mostly tiring and useless at this point. I'll accept whatever decision the town is able to reach with consensus but from my chair here a consensus isn't likely to be reached. Too many widely varying opinions on what the best course of action is and why.

This isn't adding much to the scum hunting process anymore either. It's starting to become a huge distraction. I'm tempted to just do something with the damned thing and face the consequences (whatever they may be) just to get us to the point where we've moved on instead rehashing the arguments over and over again repetitively.

The only good thing that has come out of this is that the scum have tried to paint targets on people by trying to connect scum tells to this largely wide, varying and WIFOMy debate. If I am right, then we should be able to lynch them in short order because they've made themselves obvious.

[hohum]

Drink: Decanter

Why aren't we lynching pyro?

[hohum]

Whoa.

Well that's that, then. Anything else you want to get off your chest before the unknown effects take hold?

Yes. This whole discussion was pointless and distracting. We should be looking for clues that the people who were largely steering it were also purposefully introducing confusion into the mix.

[hohum]

Any requests for your coffin Hohum?

Why are you so sure it does something bad?

[hohum]

I wouldn't mind seeing lamont lynched, but I'd rather see pyro go. Thoughts?

Also: more pyro votes please.

[hohum]

So you got a pro town read on me before I made that post. All of a sudden I'm anti-town?

Which is it? It can't be either or when it suits your whims.

[hohum]

you said comments, plural, implying that I've been doing anti-town stuff the entire time. You also never really asked me to explain why I'm advocating your lynch. You've got a big guilty sign around your neck.

[hohum]

I think its time you got off your high horse and started contributing in a serious way.

Also implies that you believe my behavior to be anti-town.

[hohum]

All I'm really doing is pointing out the contradictions in your posts. If that makes my play anti-town suddenly it's because you've got something to hide and you don't want anyone prying any deeper.

So far the entire game you've coasted by mostly agreeing with me. If you don't like the spotlight so much, then you should be posting some real case material and analysis instead of cycling through the town lobbing one-liner bombs at people.

While we're on the subject of crappy game play: I'd like to see a less stalky posting style from you.

[hohum]

I've been sitting here responding to you as you've brought up points. Just because I'd rather sit here and prod you for information rather than dump walls of text into this already fast-paced game doesn't mean my points aren't valid points.

The "I think you should be lynched" comment worked, because obviously you're starting to get emotional about it. Your "stalky" behavior is just that: you sit here and stalk the thread, waiting for an opportunity add that much more confusion. Take a fucking break dude and let other people comment -- I did. With 19 people in this game it's horrible to have uh (as of this post) 12 posts from one player on any one page.

Here's the bottom line: You're trying to draw conclusions from a largely WIFOM-driven conversation. I drank the decanter to put a fucking end to the madness -- even if it means my death. Do you REALLY think that it's possible to pull ANYTHING substantive out of that mess?

Your post 683 is mostly null. It might as well be a blank post for what you could actually prove based on the points you brought up.

[hohum]

Why do you feel the need to pick him apart now, if you feel Pyro is a more important target?

He's at the keyboard, responding, being defensive and acting like a wounded animal in general. Why waste the opportunity?

Pyro is welcome to come in and respond at his leisure

[hohum]

Feeling anything yet, hohum?

No. I don't think the mod has noticed yet.

[hohum]

Oh, BTW

Unvote, Vote: Lamont_Cranston

For the holier than thou attitude, and mostly for the reasons I've been outlining for the last 2 pages.

[hohum]

@Amish Ed:

The Answer to your question regarding lamont:

The fact that all he's really contributed is brown nosing me, cycling through the town taking pot shots (which is a common scum tactic BTW) instead trying to build cases on one or two of his top suspects, calling me out for posting stuff not substantive and then actually getting OFFENDED when I pointed out that he was doing the same thing.

I also had issues with him very early on. His first vote very close to the begging of the game was baseless. Obviously poor reasoning. I tried to give him an out by allowing to admit it was a baseless vote but he stuck by his guns. His reasons for voting people largely revolve around crappy reasoning which seems to indicate that he really doesn't care who gets lynched and why.

Me calling for a pyro lynch was quite similar to me outright calling for a lamont lynch. I was trying to poke the bare. I have some good reasons to suspect pyro but lamont's recent behavior is just really of the back-breaking star type. I'm definitely in favor of a lamont lynch.

Confirm Vote: Lamontp/b]

I think it's time for some rounds of prods, but I don't feel like going through the thread and figuring out who, since I just spent the few days mostly rereading, and analyzing the 10 pages worth of stuff I missed and the beginning of the thread yet again in order to try to clarify the picture a bot better for me. If someone would be willing to post a prod request for anyone who hasn't posted in the last 72+ hours that would be quite helpful.

[hohum]

I'm dying of course, but I'm still happy with my cranston vote.

[hohum]

more lamont lynching please.

[hohum]

*GLARE* at zwet and to a lesser extent lynchmont for bringing meta into the discussion on page
uh
33 now.

lamont == obvscum. I'm almost willing to wager on it at this point.

[hohum]

how is it an OMGUS when I started the argument? Wouldn't it be the other way around?

You're just throwing random acronyms at me now hoping I'll ho away.

[hohum]

I'll catch up later tonight.

[hohum]

He could but he won't. >_> <_< ˚–˚

You're treading a fine line there scum.

Can you already tell us if you have received the matches?

I saw that request a few pages back. I'm waiting for the mod to tell me what (if anything) I have in inventory. As soon as I find out I'll let you know.

In other news, why haven't we lynched pyro yet?

[hohum]

This game has more than doubled in size since Elmo took my role over originally. Would you mind giving me a short recap as to this fake-claiming scum thing? It would really save me a hell of a lot of trouble.

[hohum]

I have nothing in inventory. No doll. No matches.

[hohum]

Unvote, Vote Setael

I like this wagon.

[hohum]

Zaz's vote is very telling. Couple of pages ago she was advocating a stepho lynch. Now there's an active wagon and in the middle of the discussion she totally refocuses on Naomi.

[hohum]

didn't the mod say something about items being dropped going poof at the end of each day? Why would the matches be the exception to that rule?

Also that basically gives you a free pass to endgame. You need to be compelling with your arguments to avoid a lynch at this point.

[hohum]

I don't think anyone is going to quick hammer. If they do, they need to be lynched themselves. I don't have an issue leaving you at L-1 for now.

Back to your claim: if your PM actually says that you need to survive with the matches until end game then why would you need clarification from the mod?

Knowing the way people conduct themselves on MS why would you make such an absurd-sounding claim if it were indeed true? Wouldn't it have been better to silently stay in the background? Giving off too much information is a bad thing and nobody is EVER going to give you a free pass to endgame around here.

[hohum]

lamont: let him back off the wagon if he wants to. I'm trying to find the post where the mod says items go poof at the end of each day. I'm operating under that premiss currently. If we don't use the matches now we're never going to be able to use them.

Either way she's done enough to earn her lynch. We can look at Dramonic and Steph tomorrow.

[hohum]

Did the shotgun shell go poof at the end of the day? No. No it didn't.

The game may hang in the balance, and I can investigate Setael tonight if everyone insists--there's no way she should be the lynch. If she is town, there is no reason for her to be lying about the matches. If she is scum, WE CAN LYNCH HER TOMORROW.

You really haven't looked at my reasons why I think she's lying, now have you?

She's got a point.

7. Any items found during the day must be used BEFORE the lynch on that day

unless expressly stated in the item PM

that this is not the case. Items given/found during the night can be used at the player's discretion.

SOMEONE

is playing an angle here. If we lynch properly we'll find out who. It's pretty safe to say that Zaz is of opposite alignment of Steph and Setael.

See the OP Hohum. Rule 7 if I'm correct. Already pointed that out.

Either way it's going to be a productive lynch.

[hohum]

what's the point of that last post? You're on all those lists too.

[hohum]

Unvote

It just occurred to me that there's a lot of people tying themselves to Setael's flip. Here's what I propose the proper course of action is, just to heir on the side of caution:

1) Lynch someone else tonight and let StephO investigate Setael
2) Lynch StephO tomorrow in order to confirm the investigation result

If at that point the investigation result is sound

3) Lynch ZazieR
4) Lynch Lamont

If the investigation result is not sound

3) Lynch Setael
4) Lynch Dramonic or Pyro next.

[hohum]

if steph flips scum we can't trust the investigation result, and we go back into the default mode of scum hunting. Whether steph is right or not at that point is irrelevant.

[hohum]

If we let him investigate and then lynch him, nothing is forced. It's simply confirmed at that point.

[hohum]

I approve of the direction you guys are headed. You're all thinking a little more clearly now.

Vote, Naomi

[hohum]

I don't want to put him at l-1.

Everyone keeps asking me why I think pyro is scum -- well this is a perfect example.

[hohum]

Dear Manor,

*sigh*

Sincerely,
Hohum

[hohum]

Bah! Go town!

[hohum]

heh. I feel like a hole in the game now IT WAS MY ROLE YAKNOW! hehe

[hohum]

Hai!

Why did the scum team waste an NK on me when I was dead anyways?

[hohum]

it's not as if I was on to anyone. I was trying to shift the focus towards Zazie before I died.