The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Sajin]

The advantage with public abilities like this is to findout later motivations behind actions. By not declaring you are throwing away a opportunity for us to learn something.


And how are you 50/50 sure amished? You really just want to make this WIFOM eh?

[Amished]

I think you're misreading. *I'm* not 50% sure, and I don't care to wager on the effects as I'd probably be as wrong as anybody. Kratos said the 50% sure that I think you're referring to. I was presenting the possibility that it could be both detrimental and beneficial, further leading to my point that trying to guess what it does is pointless and detracts from the overall objective of finding evil.

The problem with your statement is that most other public abilities have a known result. A gun found with a single shot, obviously a dayvig and has a predictable outcome. A used bulletproof vest, 1 night protection, a predictable outcome. We have *NO IDEA* what the hell this potion/wine/whatever does, and is impossible to guess. Therefore, it's pretty damn hard to determine anything from that as you're just as likely to harm the person that you're giving it to as to help them. Therefore, motivations are damn near impossible to glean from this situation. With you trying to, when I view it to be both pointless and distracting is the reason I both disagree with you about this case, and why I'm voting for you.

[Sajin]

I do not know the effects of said item. But I cannot conclude that someone in the game does NOT know what this does like you are assuming. Like our volunteer. In fact I would suggest NOT using it on the volunteer.

I really just want to negate someone using extra information to hurt town. Its happened to me before in too many mafia games.

If we really don't want to declare intent because of whatever reason, I am fine with a /diceroll selection process.

[hohum]

Speculation is just that: speculation. Nothing good could possibly come from any of us trying to game the mod. I'd suggest you stop.

[Amished]

So you're ok with something that you don't care to speculate on (so therefore you admit that it *can* be very bad) and to allow that to go to somebody that potentially might balance the town side due to randomness? (since even in the flavor/sign-ups the mod said that this game is probably not going to be that fair to the town) I prefer not to take chances in a closed setup that's somewhat bastardized already, and probably balanced somewhat against the town, just judging from my knowledge of the x games a stranger series.

Another question: What happens in the case that we give it to the volunteer, if they do guess/know what the effects of the potion are? We then all find out (probably) what the effects of the potion are, and if the effects are that good, would you not then have a target for suspicion? If the effects are then good, and then are used in what we can all agree to be a pro-town way would that not also be good?

Do you just have something against xtoxm getting the potion? In all cases, I'm still failing to see a good form of logic out of you.

[Xtoxm]

hohum and logic are mutually exclusive.

[Devestation]

The problem with your statement is that most other public abilities have a known result. A gun found with a single shot, obviously a dayvig and has a predictable outcome. A used bulletproof vest, 1 night protection, a predictable outcome. We have *NO IDEA* what the hell this potion/wine/whatever does, and is impossible to guess.

OK
lets look at this logically.

The Volunteer is supposed to CONSUME the liquid, and I think the theme of the game rules out the possibility of the person gaining awesome radioactive eyesight that acts as cop, or magical healing abilities that protect or ressurect people, so we can assume safely that the main effect will be directed at the volunteer.

Therefore, the main things I think it could be are:

Detrimental-

A: Poison: Kills or incapacitates/roleblocks the user

B: Mind altering drugs: Either changes the user's alignment to Mafia (maybe SK), or their sanity if they are a cop/doctor (not sure).

Beneficial-

A: Makes them immune to some form of NK, e.g. There might be a serial killer who injects people with something and the potion is a vaccine.

Mixed:

A: Make them go crazy and kill someone

B: Make them a hobo (see Wiki for what hobo does)

[Devestation]

and yes, hohum, Devestation is satisfied.

[hohum]

So you're ok with something that you don't care to speculate on (so therefore you admit that it *can* be very bad) and to allow that to go to somebody that potentially might balance the town side due to randomness? (since even in the flavor/sign-ups the mod said that this game is probably not going to be that fair to the town) I prefer not to take chances in a closed setup that's somewhat bastardized already, and probably balanced somewhat against the town, just judging from my knowledge of the x games a stranger series.

Another question: What happens in the case that we give it to the volunteer, if they do guess/know what the effects of the potion are? We then all find out (probably) what the effects of the potion are, and if the effects are that good, would you not then have a target for suspicion? If the effects are then good, and then are used in what we can all agree to be a pro-town way would that not also be good?

Do you just have something against xtoxm getting the potion? In all cases, I'm still failing to see a good form of logic out of you.

I made a joke in passing about potentially giving the decanter to xtoxm but I'm not the one who pointedly said he shouldn't get it. In fact I've never stated definitively what I intend to do with the decanter other than to say I'm willing to take input from the town on what that decision should be. You're deliberately misattributing and shoving words into my mouth now.

If you don't want to take the chance then I'm fine hanging onto the decanter until it goes poof.

Even if I give it to someone and it doesn't result in instantaneous suicide, he or she can always lie about what it does if it suits their whims.

If you want my OPINION as to what should be done then you should just come right out and ask me instead of trying to beat me over the head with vague and convoluted questions.

My opinion is based partly on rule #12. If our titles bear no relevance other than flavor, then one could reasonably conclude that the setup is pretty vanilla -- and at minimum balanced. You even pointed this out.

There are very well established best practices for dealing with vanilla setups. In this case the special mechanic to this game are these random items that are going to appear throughout our stay in the manor. As of right now they're the only special mechanic of the game that is apparent.

Truth is we have no idea what these gifts are going to do, so we should discard them and treat the setup as if it were a vanilla setup.

[Devestation]

I'm going to say let it go poof, because we've been told to think for a change, and in reality most of the things I can think of it possibly doing are not town positive things.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Mod:

Can the elixir be sipped to get some feel for what it might do?

[Nyx]

I think we should just dice roll this. Because if we pick someone you'll get too much WIFOM.

If we decide to do this ofcourse.

Original Roll String: 1d19

1 19-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[/dice]

[Nyx]

I think we should just dice roll this. Because if we pick someone you'll get too much WIFOM.

If we decide to do this ofcourse.

Original Roll String: 1d19 (STATIC)

1 19-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[/dice]

2. Pyromaniac - Thief

So that would be Pyro

[Amished]

@Hohum: 254 (which you quoted) was directed at Sajin in 252, not you in 253. Might make things more clear. I was continuing to scoff at his suggestions, and actually agreeing with you.

[Knight of Cydonia]

@Mod:

Can the elixir be sipped to get some feel for what it might do?

No. You drink it all, or you don't drink. Much like my father.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Truth is we have no idea what these gifts are going to do, so we should discard them and treat the setup as if it were a vanilla setup.

^^^ This.

++town imo.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@Tajo:

What is your opinon on this decanter?

[Stephoscope]

I will not vote for anyone until either someone drinks the drink, or we come to a consensus that no one is going to drink the drink.

I still think we should force Lamont to chug it.

[hohum]

@Hohum: 254 (which you quoted) was directed at Sajin in 252, not you in 253. Might make things more clear. I was continuing to scoff at his suggestions, and actually agreeing with you.

My sincerest apologies then.

[Xtoxm]

Someone has to drink it. I don't care who. Seriously. Not using all the items, at least this early, is a waste.

[hohum]

There's some merit to turning someone into a guinea pig on D1 so we can figure out if these gifts are potentially helpful or not, but it's a permutation which also leads to some fair amount of WIFOM because there's some mod gaming that you have to take into account to figure out if all these gifts are going to be helpful or if some of them are going to be harmful.

I'm still in favor of letting them go poof.

[Shadow Knight]

I volunteer to drink it.

[hohum]

At least I'm in favor of letting THIS one go poof. Perhaps the next Item PM will be a little less vague.

[Lamont_Cranston]

@ Xtoxm:

Do you think there is any chance at all that an item like this can be manipulated by scum to become "confirmed townie" without actually being one?

[Shadow Knight]

I personally think we should take volunteers and if more than one person is willing to drink it, then random.org it. The scum probably don't know any more than the town what each item is or what its effects will be, so I think willingness to drink will be a null tell. I also don't think we'll be able to guess what any item does before we use it. Whether or not the item confers some power, I don't think that will be a guarantee of townieness or scumminess. After all, a scum can develop cop-sight and a townie can develop the ability to kill.