The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Shadow Knight]

Not really. Just didn't see any reason to get involved in a fight when hohum wasn't even here. We had no reason to think that hohum would agree to do as we wished. I'm ok with me drinking it. My question though, is if you think I'm lurking, why would you want me to drink it?

Elixer Votecount

Shadow (2)- Pyro, Shadow
Lamont (1)- Steph
Pyro (1)- Lamont

[Lamont_Cranston]

Btw I think self-voting is very anti-town. I don't think it should be allowed for the elixir...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Also my vote is for

Sironi

not Pyro

but great votecount

[Amished]

That and my top candidate is

Nyx

[Shadow Knight]

Sorry. Fixed

Shadow (2)- Pyro, Shadow
Lamont (1)- Steph
Siro (1)- Lamont
Nyx (1)- Amished

I don't see why self voting shouldn't be allowed. The likelihood of one person knowing what it is and what it does is small and the elixer is just as likely to be harmful to the imbiber as it is to be beneficial. Since we're not taking volunteers and I'm not comfortable with forcing an unknown to drink it, I'll nominate myself.

[Shadow Knight]

EBWODP- What I would have preferred is to have people either volunteer or give their reason for not wanting to drink it. Then the town could choose which of the volunteers should drink it. It gives us 2 decisions we can analyze from one item.

[Lamont_Cranston]

EBWODP- What I would have preferred is to have people either volunteer or give their reason for not wanting to drink it. Then the town could choose which of the volunteers should drink it. It gives us 2 decisions we can analyze from one item.

Self-voting should be forbidden. Both you and Pablo are rolefishing by advocating this.

FoS Shadow Knight

[Nyx]

Seriously. Is it me or didn't we already have the volunteering is bad for town discussion ?

FoS: Shadow Knight

I'm not going to "vote" for a person to drink from the decanter until hohum actually decides if he wants to give it away and let someone use it. If we decide before he makes this decision he can always back out of this by choosing not to use the item/give it away.

[hohum]

Okay, there's not WHOLE lot worth commenting on after page 20: mostly back and fourth Re: the decanter, so I won't attempt to try. It will only further distort the discussion. This means I could have posted this earlier. Also sorry for such a large post in such a busy game, but a lot has happened over the weekend worth commenting on.

I find it odd that hohum says he's waiting to use it on ?someone "who he doesn't like"

This was a passing joke, and I've since clarified my position as well. For you to sit there and maintain that this is my stance is almost a joke in of itself. Also the comments I'm about to make to alabaska are relevant to this.

For my opinion of the performance of these players, please see my wiki.

Why not just post it in the thread? You can change your wiki page which alters the historical perspective of this game, and that's bad. If you have anything relevant to say then it needs to be said in-thread.

Anyway, my wiki stated that if a person is a semi-lurker (posting content just frequently enough to avoid replacement and said content is not analysis which helps the town) I will advocate their lynch mercilessly. Total lurkers I will let replace however.

You're advocating a D1 policy lynch while quite a lively discussion is going on about other things. I only advocate policy lynches when there are no better or safer-looking lynch targets. This point-of-fact statement has the feel of an attempt to derail the discussion.

I'll happily drink it.

As tempting as it would be to get you the hell out of this game, I think I'll hang on to it for now.

any reason behind this hostility?

It was mostly a passing joke; however, having played with him before I'm somewhat familiar with his maturity level. I was trying to goad him into either getting emotional or bringing meta into the discussion so that I could work on getting him to drop some scum tells. He did neither. Instead he took a parting shot at me and went about his business.

He definitely isn't playing like the Xtoxm that I have grown to know and wince at.

Agreed. i really don't like hohum's stance on not using the items, or Lamont's backing of it.

First of all you used the word items, plural. The only thing I've said for sure that I am supportive of letting THIS one go.

Secondly, my stance has never been as hardline as yours is and as you seem to interpret my position. Frankly, I'm wary of anyone taking a hard-line stance right now (even of those who actually agree with me) considering the sheer volume of WIFOM that has gone into this discussion.

===============
Anyone who is basing their argument on the notion that the town is over powered is either scum or bread crumbing that they have a power role. Stop it. Now.

I will not be responsible for any sanity flips, killing of useful role, removing power or roleblocking that I may or may not receive from drinking the it. I will not be responsible for any harm that comes to the town from me drinking.

Sounds like you're setting yourself up for deniability later. Definitely a scum tactic. I would put you in the former category for this post.

Also,

FoS Naimoi.

for 287, giving one person to much power this early in the game is just a bad idea. I didn't see this until now.

Translation:

Naomi is building a case to advocate my lynch. Let me go back and re-read her in isolation and see what I can pick out to discredit her

This and the justification for your Pablo vote are a very knee-jerk reactions.

Then you jump back onto Naomi with some more weak reasoning.

Summary:

Pyromaniac is obvscum, naomi comes off as looking slightly noobtown and Sajin's lynch can be postponed for now.

Unvote, Vote: Pyromaniac

===============
The generally touted notion that the dice roll can't be fixed is correct; however, they that doesn't mean that they can't be faked and it's been proven that they can before.

Amish Ed hinted on this earlier and I think it needs to be reinforced. The basic principle behind this game is an informed minority Vs. and uninformed majority, so it is possible (though guessing the probability involves mod-gaming) that the scum team has inside knowledge of what these gifts will do. Also if this person does survive, there's no motivation for them to be truthful about the effects if they're scum because there's really no apparent way to verify the truth currently. For these reasons alone I'm unsupportive of giving the decanter to anyone who has asked for it.

Sajin goes off into a craplogic tangent in post 450. That's all I have to say about that one.

People keep relating not using an unknown effect item to a no-lynch. I really want to see a solid reasonable connection between the two, because I feel that they're *nothing* alike.

QFT. Devestation's response one post later sort of avoids the original point or is answering a different question that Amish Ed asked. I'd like to know which.

I need to do some work later to correlate this but it seems like the same people who are trying to connect "decanter goes poof" with "D1 no-lynch" are the same people who volunteered to drink the decanter's contents. It goes a long way towards backing up the theory that scum have inside knowledge of what's in the decanter.

[Nyx]

That and my top candidate is

Nyx

I'm flattered but nonetheless I'd like to hear the reason of your choice. Since you were the one advocating the idea of giving the decanter to a person who is slightly scummy in your view.

[Amished]

I went through and did a read of each person in isolation. When I went through yours, especially early on (up to ISO 11) it was mostly active lurking, you being here but not really posting anything of substance. You had a discourse on how to do a random dice roll, but it wasn't posting an opinion on anything. Your discourse in 12 was summarily noted to contain no stance other than we can't outguess the mod, and now you're FoS'ing (not necessarily a bad thing, as I don't feel self-voting in this matter should be accepted either) for reasons that other people have given. You're around "enough" (not really, but ok) to make you active. You also haven't said anything necessarily anti-town, but you haven't said a hell of a lot either.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Hohum all I can say is: I am so glad you left. I don't even care if you fake left. Your analysis is so helpful and insightful.

I don't think there is a direct correlation bewteen volunteer and "go poof"=d1 lynch.

What specifically do you think about the "battle of the items" possibility?

[Lamont_Cranston]

So far according to my memory there have only been two people that advocated d1-no-lynch as go poof:

Xtoxm & Sironi

I don't think there is a 3rd person...

And btw what do you think about random assignment vs. town-wide voting?

Would you accept a two-phase voting where the two top town chosen people are identified and then everyone votes on A or B?

[Lamont_Cranston]

CORRECTION: Xtoxm & SAJIN

[Sajin]

When did I ever advocate no lynch?

[Pyromaniac]

So far according to my memory there have only been two people that advocated d1-no-lynch as go poof:

Xtoxm & Sironi

I don't think there is a 3rd person...

And btw what do you think about random assignment vs. town-wide voting?

Would you accept a two-phase voting where the two top town chosen people are identified and then everyone votes on A or B?

Shadow knight.

[hohum]

I didn't fake leave. You can check my posting history. I dropped ALL my games, including the one I was modding. I had a real life crisis to deal with. This is the first game I've caught up in and that alone took the better part of 5 hours to read and analyze 10 pages worth of random accusations and decanter banter.

And btw what do you think about random assignment vs town-wide voting?

Would you accept a two-phase voting where the two top town chosen people are identified and then everyone votes on A or B?

I think the decanter banter is mostly tiring and useless at this point. I'll accept whatever decision the town is able to reach with consensus but from my chair here a consensus isn't likely to be reached. Too many widely varying opinions on what the best course of action is and why.

This isn't adding much to the scum hunting process anymore either. It's starting to become a huge distraction. I'm tempted to just do something with the damned thing and face the consequences (whatever they may be) just to get us to the point where we've moved on instead rehashing the arguments over and over again repetitively.

The only good thing that has come out of this is that the scum have tried to paint targets on people by trying to connect scum tells to this largely wide, varying and WIFOMy debate. If I am right, then we should be able to lynch them in short order because they've made themselves obvious.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well towards that end, I would hope that everyone can enter their vote for who gets the elixir here and I would wholeheartedly endorse auto-lynch on anyone that does not vote.

I personally believe that a two-tiered voting system will be safer as a village-wide vote alone will be too diffused to be totally effective.

[Lamont_Cranston]

So far according to my memory there have only been two people that advocated d1-no-lynch as go poof:

Xtoxm & Sironi

I don't think there is a 3rd person...

And btw what do you think about random assignment vs. town-wide voting?

Would you accept a two-phase voting where the two top town chosen people are identified and then everyone votes on A or B?

Shadow knight.

Could you put that in blue if you are voting for Shadow Knight?

[Pyromaniac]

Anyone who is basing their argument on the notion that the town is over powered is either scum or bread crumbing that they have a power role. Stop it. Now.

Yeah I reread rule 13.

I will not be responsible for any sanity flips, killing of useful role, removing power or roleblocking that I may or may not receive from drinking the it. I will not be responsible for any harm that comes to the town from me drinking.

Sounds like you're setting yourself up for deniability later. Definitely a scum tactic. I would put you in the former category for this post.

I was merely making it absolutely clear that I would not voluntarily drink.

Also,

FoS Naimoi.

for 287, giving one person to much power this early in the game is just a bad idea. I didn't see this until now.

Translation:

Naomi is building a case to advocate my lynch. Let me go back and re-read her in isolation and see what I can pick out to discredit her

Her accusation was that I explained myself in other post. That is SO scummy. Only a scum would forget to post their explanation and immediately post it in a different post.

This and the justification for your Pablo vote are a very knee-jerk reactions.

Then you jump back onto Naomi with some more weak reasoning.

Summary:

Pyromaniac is obvscum, naomi comes off as looking slightly noobtown and Sajin's lynch can be postponed for now.

Unvote, Vote: Pyromaniac

Let me remind that I was not the first one to vote Naomi, although I think I might have been the first to do it for that particular post.

He is trying to prevent me from infiltrating the town! MUST LYNCH!

The reason why I don't find this particularly scummy is because I have yet to look at your other games, to see if you usually try to lead the town.

[Pyromaniac]

So far according to my memory there have only been two people that advocated d1-no-lynch as go poof:

Xtoxm & Sironi

I don't think there is a 3rd person...

And btw what do you think about random assignment vs. town-wide voting?

Would you accept a two-phase voting where the two top town chosen people are identified and then everyone votes on A or B?

Shadow knight.

Could you put that in blue if you are voting for Shadow Knight?

I was saying that Shadow Knight advocated no lynching day one. I have already voted for him.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Pyromaniac wrote:
I will not be responsible for any sanity flips, killing of useful role, removing power or roleblocking that I may or may not receive from drinking the it. I will not be responsible for any harm that comes to the town from me drinking.


Sounds like you're setting yourself up for deniability later. Definitely a scum tactic. I would put you in the former category for this post.

I was merely making it absolutely clear that I would not voluntarily drink.

This is incorrect. The quoted post came right after you said you WOULD voluntarily drink. Why do you misquote it now??

FoS Pyro

[Pyromaniac]

Pyromaniac wrote:
I will not be responsible for any sanity flips, killing of useful role, removing power or roleblocking that I may or may not receive from drinking the it. I will not be responsible for any harm that comes to the town from me drinking.


Sounds like you're setting yourself up for deniability later. Definitely a scum tactic. I would put you in the former category for this post.

I was merely making it absolutely clear that I would not voluntarily drink.

This is incorrect. The quoted post came right after you said you WOULD voluntarily drink. Why do you misquote it now??

FoS Pyro

I said, sometime in that post era, that I would not drink it voluntarily, if you are lynched if you do not drink it, it is not voluntarily.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Actually Pyro, that's not the first time you've appeared to make a slip-up and tried to cover your tracks... and after you stated that you simply forgot to post it, I left it alone. I could completely see the logic in what you did after you explained. I understood your action, but you decided to follow through and attempt to discredit me, hohum is right. That is suspicious....

[Naomi_Saotome]

Lamont, why me? lol.

---

Still...

For Naomi

Before

I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.

After

If I was hohum, I'd drink it myself or let the town decided. Depending on what everyone wanted.

So... are you saying you

want

him to be solely responsible? ...

No, I'm saying that we can then, move on to more important matters.

I think the decanter banter is mostly tiring and useless at this point. I'll accept whatever decision the town is able to reach with consensus but from my chair here a consensus isn't likely to be reached. Too many widely varying opinions on what the best course of action is and why.

This isn't adding much to the scum hunting process anymore either. It's starting to become a huge distraction. I'm tempted to just do something with the damned thing and face the consequences (whatever they may be) just to get us to the point where we've moved on instead rehashing the arguments over and over again repetitively.

Thanks, I've been trying to say this many times... but it's been ignored. Because there was so much distraction going on.

Elixer votes:

Shadow
Siro
AJ