DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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If the phases are skipped, I'm pretty sure everyone immediately receives the "in-between" powers
Which includes an SK's automatic choice of a troop (they get two troops, and 1 kill)"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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apparently I double posted...
Going directly to DEFCON 1 is WAY more unpredictable compared to going through every phase. I just believe that taking it slow will make all nukes more accurate in the long run. Charging head-first into a war isn't a good idea from a military standpoint, and this shouldn't be any different."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Mafia's been down for me for quite a while.
Just makin' it MORE official
I am not in favor of Total War, information is always key"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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@Hinduragi: Can't inform you about Defcon 2, but stealing abilities from them is definately something to think about. Taking away submarine or bulletproof could hurt them a lot."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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ooba wrote:Useless for town:
Eavesdrop: Possible eavesdropper
Counterintelligence: Framer+Godfather ability (Plus one night to communicate normally)
Its my understanding that Eavsdrop was responsible for most of the correct lynches in the last DEFCON. The person who selects it has to be confident in their abilities, though. Counterintelligence is useful in that it takes the power away from scum."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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[quote="Magister Ludi"]Also, am I right in my assumption that there is only one of these roles going to be in the game total? Only one battleship, fighter, etc?[quote]
yessir"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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SocioPath wrote:This just in: Toasty is now high ranking scums.
For showing a distaste in poor arguments. lolk"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Not quite. I just think the cases being made are based on...nulltells.
I have a townread on Magua (ooba mentioned meta, however, which means I'm goin' to have to look), LLD and inhim are null, I have no idea wtf hez is talking about, and spyreX seems normal.
Also, I haven't really gotten into this game yet, which is why I want to get to DEFCON 3 (more action)
Swift Justice wrote:ToastyToast wrote:SocioPath wrote:This just in: Toasty is now high ranking scums.
For showing a distaste in poor arguments. lolk
QUADZ IS THAT YOU? QUADZ?
quadz is awesome, but no."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Screaming Death Clan wrote:So Pooky is the InternetStranger of this game you say? The hells' with that generation...I'm late to the party. Scum of course are afraid of nukes flying around because they care about their own survival. I WOULD KNOW BECAUSE IVE BEEN THERE AND IVE FELT THAT FEAR>
BUT THIS TIME IM TOWN GLORIOUS GLORIOUS AMERICAN TOWN, FINALLY. We can crack this game from the first 3 pages.AV is scum again. Ooba is town. SpyreX is town. Pooky is town. Hinduragi is town. Master Luigi is town. Magua is SCUMZ and for the nuke furnace. Vi and RC too. FOR THE BLOOD GOD, throw Regfan in there too for lying straight up in thread. InHim is town. Toogeloo is maybe. Gamma is town. Oh yeah Magua really IS scum. D1 lynchworthy scum? WHOS WITH ME Oh man AV's fighting for that rope though.. fightin HARD Zhero comes out of left field to drop scumtells though, MUCH APPRECIATED I said ooba was town already right? Lol Vi l2interact with buddies naturall AGM is FAIL for allowing a single scumbag to deny the rest of us a glorious game.1
Reasons for being "on the fence":
1)^^Why? oh thats right, there aren't enough posts in the game to figure that much out already.
2)HezLucky wrote:
No worries it will be you before Gamma. That should afford me an extra day. =DSpyreX wrote:
I want Hez dead before he has a chance to kill Gamma.
OMGUS isn't a case
3)ooba wrote:I'll also make a scum team call out so that it can be compared post game (if you're town that is) ..Mafiagorilla Vi SpyreX Magua - Mystery Player- Maybe (ToastyToast)
SK
PookyTheMagicalBear
Seems like you just randomized the playerlist
4)Gammagooey wrote:Nooot in favor of a Magua d1 death. I'd say he can die later if he doesn't go from setup stuff->good contentz but that applies to a lot of players at this point.
Hez and Zhero and RedCoyote can all die though.
Where did RedCoyote come from?
5)inHimshallibe wrote:Lld can die for their reads being a detriment to town.
Lady Lambdadelta wrote:In other words, I called you scummy, so I can die?
two players going in a cycle of OMGUS. At least LLD mentioned posts, but its still a stretch. Why is she asked to give reasons, and no one else?
In conclusion, THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO CASES. The only way I am on the fence right now is: whose being dumb and whose being scum?"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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SpyreX wrote:Ohh snap Reg may be town.
Ludi wrote:Can you back this up? Toasty seems to be one of those perennial players scum like to latch onto in efforts to mislynch.
See sig. He's for nukin' not for lynchin but seriously now.
Yet another great explanation by SpyreX"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi wrote:Toasty, would you mind giving me a read (or even sentence or two) on the following players:
Reg Swift Socio
I'm interested in your thoughts, and there is no reason to wait until DEFCON 3 to hear them.
Regfan: He was relatively...distanced from the setup discussions, but I do find his recent list to be protown. If I have any questions for him it would be:
Why is Socio a higher suspect for you than both LLD and Toog, if you have no posts to go off of? Also, what about my combination of scummy and townie posts places me in the scum list when compared to those of Dana and Ooba?
Other than those concerns, Reg is leaning town. I've played a game with him in which he was scum, so I'm gonna do a meta check once I stop being lazy.
Swift: I'm not a fan (but he's totes null)
1) The whole total war is fun thing. He seems to have a joking attitude towards it, so I can't tell if he legitimately just wants to nuke everyone. Also, "fun" isn't exactly a good reason from a town-winning standpoint.
2)Convo with Mina. Calls her town, saying scumMina wouldn't try to break the game or think about setup spec. Then calls her scum and says his townread on her was a trap. My gut is telling me that this wasn't actually some gambit, as he is suggesting.
Swift wrote:(it was pretty obviously a fucking joke, I'm not going to change my town read on her just because she thinks I should, in fact since she didn't even see why she was a town read in the first place, idc)
Seriously, stop changing your mind if you want
Swift Justice wrote:stop trying to discredit me by saying my posts aren't serious. what do you think of my points?
This to happen.
3) Faraday knows me from skypemafia. Find it strange that they compare me to quadz (srsly, sign your sig its confusing), who seems to get me lynched whenever I'm scum.
Socio: No good reasons for his suspions. ISO #1-4 are all irrelevant, then he says Magua is scum. I think he's just sheeping SCREAMINGDEATH. He's making very little input, just calling people scumz. I would actually say his attitude thus far makes him the scummiest of the three. Significantly more reasoning is needed behind his actions.
So,
Regfan is town
Swift Justice is null (a lot of my problems with him aren't necessarily scummy, but I don't like his play)
Socio is scummy, he seems all over the place, is under the radar, doesn't support his reads with evidence."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Magua wrote:I don't have a read on you.Wedisagree on some setup strategy (whether Total War was a good idea, whether Airbase should be on town lists) but you haven't really expressed any strong reads one way or the other on anyone.
Im either asking something completely offtopic or considering a possible slip. Whose "We"? Teh scumbuddies?"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Mkay catch-up post
Have a solid town-read on Hinduragi now. I disagree with Dana-scum, but Hez and IS are definite possibilities
PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:IS is American, he hates euro cowards as much as I do.
All these people talking crap out their ass about scum/town is annoying me.
Scumlists already? Really?Whatever. I'm gonna get myself a nuke and cap some euros
Hmmm. To all who gave me crap about not having solid reads yet….why was this post ignored?
Socio wrote:But I have been known on occasion to be a shining beacon of towniness to make the god-fearing scums shit themselves and deal with me.
lolbutnotinthisgame
Socio wrote:Magister Ludi wrote:
Socio: "This just in: Toasty is now high ranking scums."
Can you back this up?
Yes I can.
Aaaaand you don’t back it up. Did you change your mind?
IS enters. I find this post funny (in a fishy kind-of-way, too) because 1) He doesn’t condone socialist scum, he condones socialist “weenie” scum. This and the addition of “communist scum” suggest that whilst all communist scum a
re bad, only the weenie socialists are bad.
2)He never calls himself a Freedom Loving American.
In other words, I feel like this post is completely manufactured, complete with a few white lies.
Now for the RedCoyote wall. He’s null for me after this.
RC wrote: This is solid. I agree. At first I thought this was a bad idea, but, after reading this, Magua has convinced me.
You keep changing your mind on the Fail Safe thing, do you suggest going for it or no?
RC wrote:TT wrote:
Ya'all need to turn in your roles so I can scumhunt based on something other than set-up plans.
You're scumhunting?
Slowly and quietly. I’m trying not to rush in with my reads like I did in Dynasty Warriors.
RC wrote:Since you're falling right into their trap (PROTIP: There's no way you can talk your way out of this and look good, Toast. You'll only look worse and worse or, by some miracle, stay at the same level of "willing to lynch, even if not the favorite".), you might as well elaborate on why it isn't you haven't been able to get into this game. I see you haven't casted a hypothetical vote. I see you haven't address a number of serious proposals and allegations (Magua's lynch trading, Mina's scumminess, SCD's list, Kat's proposal, etc etc).
There are a few reasons. 1) I feel lost amongst all this speculation, and for the most part find speculation to be completely null. 2) There are a TON of active players in this game, which is good but also gives me this “what else is there to say feeling.” 3)I like the concept of the game (which is why I joined), but have very limited flavor knowledge 4) I just want to get to DEFCON 3
RC wrote:You know what, dana? You still suffer from the same issue I had with you from the very first game I remember playing with you. You're far too self-interested. Anything that's not about you is put on the backburner while you focus solely on what concerns you. That level of self-interest is unfitting of a town player, frankly. This is why I see you as scum. This is why I see you as scum a majority of the times I play against you.
I don’t like this. If you think dana is ALWAYS too self-interested, then self-interested playstyle from dana should be null, not scummy. Comes off as if you are uncommitted to your position on him.
RC wrote:In no particular order:
Best lynches = dana, Hez, ML
Better lynches = SDC, SJ, Pooky
Good lynches = gorilla, Reg, AV, Toogeloo, Mina, inHim, Magua
Be more readable = Vi, MoI, Kat, IS
Best townies = Gamma, Hindu, Spy, Toast, ooba, SP, LL
A couple of very debatable names that I struggled to put in the spots they're at (especially Magua, LL, and Mina), but this is my honest assessment so far. My list is also already in.
Of your reads, who is your strongest scum read and who is your strongest town read?
AV wrote:SDC is probTown. In DEFCON 2.0 Fate wanted AirBase as his highest priority, and didn't gogo gambitzz for it. He just stayed quiet and plotted for it in the QT. Hence, reading him as town here, hence let him have AirBase.
You do understand that its much more pro-town to not “give” a role to anyone? If scum KNOWS SDC has airbase, it will change the game slightly when compared to them not knowing anything at all.
Hez wrote:I don't think that really matters at this point anymore though.
self-defeatist attitude is a bad attitude. Especially when there’s like, not even voting yet.
IS wrote:I will have nukes pointed your way, SDC. I will be watching you.
I declare this to be OMGUS
SDC wrote:All it takes is ONE TOWNIE to go "HERP DERP I REFUSE YOUR PLANZ" and then all the SCUM have townies to BLEND IN with and have EXCUSES for why they put it at #1 (oh durr everyone was doin it...)
Disagreements are sort of the point of mafia as town…if it makes you feel any better, I think Air base is a lame power. I’d rather have teh nukes.
Hm, idk what to think about the RC-AV banter. Its lacking substance.
I’m disappointed by Magna’s catch-up post. Where’s my obvtown cop buddy from superhero?
SDC wrote:We could compare dick sizes but that's a waste of time.
nts nts nts
SpyreX is stil being…random
Just got lost in SDC’s #475. What am I supporting?
Katsuki wrote:Also to all you jokers out there, you guys do realize that SDC, by taking airbase, are already SIGNING A PACT TO DIE before MYLO right? They themselves have offered to die before then. I don't see scum doing this, MEANING THEY ARE TOWN.
I do have a town-read on SDC, but not based on this. Scum would be very attracted to the “nuke-proof” idea. It also all depends on how the game plays out to see if someone who is supposed to die b4 MYLO ACTUALLY dies before MYLO
That was tiring…
So, some concluding statements:
SDC has a lot of angst but is town
MoI is not obvtown and therefore a suspect
IS, Hez, and Socio are all scummy
Im keeping an eye on SpyreX, Swift Justice, and gorilla (who I’ve ignored in above post but find him to be too passive/neutral on everything)
RC’s post is not enough for me to move him into town, primarily because we have yet to see if his play keeps up."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Pooky wrote:I'm going to kick ass and take names. This is probly going to lead me dying in some glorious fashion aftertoastingsome scumbags.. if they let me live long enough to use my nuke. This is not exactly conducive to helping my team win if I'm scum.
Please don't turn me into an adjective. I feel like I'm being used."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Magua wrote:ToastyToast wrote:Please don't turn me into anadjectiveverb. I feel like I'm being used.
...I think this is my second facepalm, correct?"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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@SpyreX: You've been vocal about your opinion on Hez, what do you think about the counter-wagon (AV)?
In fact, I myself have said very little about AV. It seems a lot of people are like "OMG THIS IS SCUM META," but I haven't actually finished a game with him in it, so I don't like to rely on it completely.
My biggest problem with AV atm is this "OH WOE IS ME!" attitude he's giving off. Its just a matter of deciding between upset scum or pissed off town.
I am liking Mina a lot now. In Defcon 5 and 4 she was really only half-present, but she's taken a very convincing stance on AV
PEDIT: I hope that isn't your real reason for voting IS, Vi"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Hex wrote:Agreed. One of them is using meta to their advantage.
Vote: AurorusVox
saw this and misinterpreted it.
Mina wrote:VOTE: AurorusVox
FOS: Anyone voting for someone other than AurorusVox
It is incredible how easy he is to read."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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@AV: would you plz link me a game with you as scum?
AV wrote:I'm pretty sure scum could just shut up and fly under the radar if they wanted. There's no incentive to talk for the sake of it.
Which is exactly what INTERNET STRANGER IS DOING.
I still don't like you using this as a defense. The incentive for scum to talk is to stay around. This "im not lurking, so im not scum" thing is bad.
Toogeloo wrote:Magua wrote:Toog, Counterintelligence was your #1 choice, yes?
yes
Toog is town
AurorusVox wrote:That's two things.
lol
SpyreX wrote:http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3121742 <--- unless otherwise noted (such as you Toasty) this pretty much stands.
Zhero was a bastard?
So I can assume that you are more confident in your Hez-read. Thank you.
Mina wrote:Fake contribution is the rare scumtell that actually works.
So true. But one question: do you consider the setup speculation/role selection process to be fake contributions? I feel it WAS a necessary part of this type of game."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Katsuki wrote:I'm failing to see where all these"Toog taking CI = town"reads are coming from.
Scum saying that would be trapping themselves."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Katsuki wrote:ToastyToast wrote:Katsuki wrote:I'm failing to see where all these"Toog taking CI = town"reads are coming from.
Scum saying that would be trapping themselves.
Interesting.
Mina wrote:That said, Toog's claim looks townish, both because the execution is townish, and because it's too bold a move for scum after Katsuki's auto-nuke dictate--particularly since Eavesdrop could out them if it doesn't get results one night.
To clear that up"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Anyone who wants to lynch me or IS is obviously a scumbag or euro sympathizer that is cowering in fear of our wellpointed nuclear weapons.
What about IS strikes you as town? I notice that you took on a similar guise as soon as IS entered with the whole "euro sympathizer" thing. What made you change your posting?"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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ToastyToast wrote:PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Anyone who wants to lynch me or IS is obviously a scumbag or euro sympathizer that is cowering in fear of our wellpointed nuclear weapons.
What about IS strikes you as town? I notice that you took on a similar guise as soon as IS entered with the whole "euro sympathizer" thing. What made you change your posting?
Ugh triple post. The whole AMERICA FUK YEA thing was there already, but you seemed to immediately flock to IS' playing style."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Hey ya'al I've been gone for over a day, so I have a lot to catch up on. Expect a catch-up post of sorts later."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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The only noticeable difference I see in AV’s scum meta as opposed to town meta (this is from skimming) is post length. As town, he tends to be more descriptive and spend more time making wall posts. As scum, the posts average to be around two paragraphs. That’s same length is being utilized in this game.
However, this is nowhere near enough to warrant a vote.
I’m just going to start at RC’s post, and go from there.
RC wrote: At this point either ML or AV would be my strongest scumreads. My strongest townread is probably SP.
I don’t understand how SP is your STRONGEST town-read. Feels off. Scum-buddy of RC is more likely ML than AV, given the vote choice.
AV wrote:This is precisely what I was thinking when reading that post. AV, my poor AV, has got to eat the first lynch this game, I'm afraid.
…Maybe not. I don’t like this, for it both appeals to a player and suggests that AV is a mislynch waiting (poor AV, I’m afraid, etc.) to happen.
For such a long post, it actually doesn’t have that much content. I didn’t see much of anything about dana, and yet you put it as the second-most favored lynched. Similarly, most of your posts about AV are along the lines of “Awww, poor AV, it’s a shame you muse die today!” He attacks IS more than his actual scumreads.
Hindu wrote:You know what pisses me off? I posted a pretty damning piece on the entire AV wagon and it gets ignored.
whelp there are a lot of really long posts atm, its easy to miss things.
MoI wrote:But why aren’t Sociopath, Swift Justice, SDC or any number of normally prolific posters who aren’t lighting up the boards suspect in your eyes? Why is Internet Stranger the only one you mention?
because I already suspect IS. IS had provided the least amount of informative content, which is my main problem with him. Its just been “AMERICA” and not real scumhunting. His newer posts are much better.
RC wrote:@Everyone: If we could make the first lynch a competition between dana and AV, I think we'd be off to such a good start. Both of these lynches are based on very solid ground at this point. Hez, well, not so much.
Its pretty obvious that AV has considerably more suspicion on him. Also, this is the first day. Why in the world would choosing from two suspects only be a good idea? From a numbers perspective, its much better to have a larger lynching pool in this situation.
Also, don’t see any strong connection b/w dana and AV. What MoI said.
IS wrote:Come DEFCON 1, the socialists will pay.
Do you think EVERYONE is socialist? Also, I’m curious why you focused on Vi’s vote and called it scummy but didn’t even mention mine.
RC wrote:Given the fact that I think both dana and AV have a good chance at being scum, then it's more likely that I'm right about one of those predictions than it is if I advocated, say, Hez, who I do not consider to have a greater chance at being scum (over dana or AV).
This doesn’t make me feel good. Like, I shivered when I read it.
RC wrote:Mmm, this is a bit frustrating now because I see where y'all are coming from. I wasn't intending to pull any sort of trick. I, uh, I think I'm being a little too analytical and distant for my own good here. I think I'll just stop talking for a while.
Sounds like your mocking AV. Didn’t you attack him for his “do you want me to shut-up” post?
OMG that was only like two pages WTF I’m tired.
Ooba’s vote is…random, unexpected.
SJ wrote:Today happens to be Read DEFCON Day, so I'm doing that now and continuing when I come back home. Hold me to this, etc.
Orly? ME TOO. Is it strange that I’m getting great town-vibes from Equinox but scum-vibes from Faraday? Torn hydra is torn.
Swift Justice wrote:i'm not reading the thread but she need to die.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone was torn.
Toogeloo wrote:Not a single person has even commented on my opinion of SocioPath since I voted him? Is he not worth people's time, and my opinion mean very little, to at least comment on the case I posted? His content is still fluffy. There is nothing there, and I imagine we won't see him again with anything remarkable for some time.
Yeah, its fluffy. I have a null on Sociopath, so its more of an issue of I find many other people scummier. Its also one bad quality when compared to suspects with multiple bad qualities.
Magister Ludi wrote:This is bad reasoning. If you think someone is playing in a scummy manner (as Socio is in fact doing), you don't pass it up or fail to call them out on it. You try and push the wagon. The fact that you also consider him acting in a scummy manner, but not worth lynching, but nukeable, is not a stance I understand or expect to come from a town point of view.
hmm I read MoI’s post differently. I think he was saying that even if SP is scummy, the chance of him getting lynched today is very small because of where the focus is. Similarly, an IS lynch is very unlikely because there were only two votes on him. Also, people who are “in-the-line-of-fire” scummy are much more likely to be lynched than “under-the-radar” scummy. SP is more of a likely nuke target than someone to use up a lynch on.
AV’s hop on the RC wagon is predictable given that he’s very much underpressure.
Swift Justice’s giant post. INSERT URL HERE TOASTIn addition to the funny bird, this post has appeased me for now. I agree with most of his reads (except for Magna and IS, I would switch the two) If it doesn’t keep up, however, my opinions on Faraday will likely take over again. Seriously, I think Swift Justice either as dissociative identity disorder or AGM forgot that they were in the same slot and sent 2 rolePM’s
SJ wrote:If I've left you out, I have no idea who the heck you are, and I expect to acquaint myself when I read the first 20 pages or so of game. If, after that, I still don't know who you are, I'm nuking you, Faraday fervor be damned.
My one problem. How did you manage to leave out LLD in your reads, then talk about her right after. She didn’t even make it to limbo?
SJ wrote:HezLucky needs nuking, I think, but I'll need to reread him also, particularly his later posts when the momentum moves off him and onto RedCoyote.
You sound unconfident + 5.
I have to pee really bad.
inHimshallibe wrote:Well, then Equinox comes and posts up ins. Re: RC saying he could be wrong - definitely agree that is not the scum part of this equation. It is that he claims that while not providing a reasonable justification for bumping AV down/moving dana up than "Competing wagons are good."
This
SDC wrote:One of those lurker easily bussed clowns among Dana, Toasty, Gorilla
HOWS THAT FOR LURKING, YO.
And so, my final decision is….
drumroll plz
Unvote:Vote:RedCoyote.Come on down! (to the gallows)"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Magua wrote:I'm shocked that you're lynchbait in games.
Do you think RC is more likely to be scum than AV?
I do. When we were in Dynasty Warriors mafia, RC wrote a very convincing post about myself and other scumspects. People thought he was scum regardless and Vi killed him. Turns out he was a death miller.
In this case, NONE of RC's cases were strong. And now he plans to...lurk out? its poor play
AV, on the other hand, came under suspicion right out of the gate. He tried his best to defend, and, even when it seemed like he was giving up, he came back again.
RC had a scummy reaction to his wagon and AV had a town reaction
I wasn't seeing the AV case when it first started, and catching-up to the thread, my opinion has pretty much stayed that way."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Um, no. I thought RC was town in that game. He thought I was scum. Then he was killed, flipped a death miller, and I got a ton of suspicion on me for calling him town. Then I got lynched and flipped town. 'twas a terrible D1"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Vi wrote:...this sounds nothing like the Toast I know. How many games have you played with AurorusVox, Toasty?
Sorry? I have not been in any completed games with AV, but I have followed quite a few.
I examined about 4 (2 town and 2 scum) games to see if this was really AV's scum meta
SpyreX death points a little TOO much to HezLucky, tbh. SpyreX wasn't like OMGSOTOWN."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Gammagooey wrote:The kill was a terrorist kill, not a scumkill. So yeah it can be terrorist trying to put Hez in the spotlight or Hez could just BE the terrorist but it says absolutely nothing about whether Hez is european or not.
Its the perfect WIFOM kill. Realized it was terrorist only after I posted that O.o"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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@Gamma:
gammagooey wrote:
Not scum with Hez
AV SpyreX (he's actually leaning hard town but this category was lonely)
Do you still believe this? Why can't AV be scum with Hez?"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Did everyone just ignore what I had to say about Gorilla?
I saw it. I agree. Other people are scummier.
@Hez: My case on IS was short because it was based on a lack of content. That is no joke, and I don't know why you think it is. Your last post made me , especially when you were calling SpyreX scum.
AV's posts today aren't getting any better."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Swift Justice wrote:(Equinox)
ToastyToast wrote:Other people are scummier.
You do not appear to have a vote.
Vote:AV. thats L-2 I think. Wasn't sure how many votes were down/too lazy to do a vote count."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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AurorusVox wrote:Hinduragi wrote:Toast wrote:I saw it. I agree. Other people are scummier.
If you agree, you think Gorilla's definite scum. If you can explain why you think others are scummier and why you suspect them, that would help.
Actually this is a really good point, but I think there's something more interesting at stake here. LLD proposes that Gorilla is the SK, and Toasty agrees...Killing the SK reduces NKs by one. So, Toasty, why aren't you voting Gorilla? Do you prefer the cool comfort of having nine other people on the wagon with you, to keep you under the radar a little more?
I have to catch up (yeah, I've been lurking a bit. Got three new games O.o). I'll answer this tho. I think gorilla is scummy, but not necessarily SK. His play is very passive, and he sort of goes with the flow.
AV, I currently think you are scum because of 1)how quickly you agreed with the RedCayote wagon, 2) emotional defense (WHAT CAN I DO? ) 3)Meta check
Then, in D2 4) Calls IS town, then suggests people should move their votes to IS "if they think he's scummier." In my opinion, trying to get votes of of oneself in favor for votes on one of your town reads...the survival mentality there is way to strong. 5) Calls gorilla scum but doesn't clearly explain why. Also, another hop as soon asa strong town readmentions their suspicions.
I do think the votes based on the sub comment are stupid.
MoI wrote:This is another obvious difference. My accusation is that YOU asked me a question and then didn't follow up on my response: your accusation is that YOU made a point that I didn't follow up on. There's a clear difference.
aaaand not following up on a response is inherently scummy?"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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AV wrote:5) Where did I call Gorilla scum? I said quite explicitly in my last post that I didn't see it coming from scum.
AV wrote:Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless, and should not be lynched today.
I have pledged my allegiance to the American people and will do all in my power to destroy those European pansy-ass lily-livered coward-bitch-suckling bastards.
Oh. So you want to lynch town? lolk"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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^^You should comment more too, Socio.
Also, I will respond to AV's defense of my post tomorrow. It made include some Argumentation Skills 101"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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AV wrote:1) Um. So what about EVERYONE ELSE that voted him before me? Let's not even mention that I had additional reasons along with my vote other than just Baa.
Did your mother ever tell you that it was wrong to point at everyone else when you yourself are at fault. "Everybody else was doing it" is not a great defense for drug attics, and its not a great defense in mafia either. You did not have a lot of reasons. I gave reasons, MoI gave reasons, all my town reads gave reasons.
AV wrote:2) I honestly still don't know why most of the people Eon the wagon are voting for me. That comment was made out of frustration with that fact.
Your frustration came off as contrived. Its a matter of opinion that I can't really prove. I think you've played mafia long enough to know exactly what you have to do if town gets on your case.
AV wrote:3) If you want to talk Meta, I can present you with a bunch of games where I've not played like this as scum. Plus, Hindu Meta'd me and disagrees with your findings. As someone who has scummed it up with me, I don't think your meta argument overpowers his.
I read your games. One difference of opinion is not enough for me to be like "loliwasjk." My review of your meta suggests that if you are town, your play is subpar. In your town games, you do more than just defend yourself, and your attacks are significantly more descriptive.
AV wrote:4) Um again. I never said "people" should be voting IS. That whole thing was in the context of GG's half-AV half-IS voting bullshit.
Your survival instinct came out here.
AV wrote:Either IS is scummier than me and you should try to get him lynched rather than half-heartedly poking in my direction and throwing a vote in his direction; or I'm scummier than him and so why are you voting IS?
Regardless of if you have a town read on IS, your question is basically asking everyone who suspects IS to get off your back if they are voting him. This makes no sense. What's wrong with suspecting two people? Why can't you and IS be scum together? Not to mention your basically telling a player what they SHOULD be doing, with an attempt to influence them in a direction away from you.
AV wrote:5) Where did I call Gorilla scum? I said quite explicitly in my last post that I didn't see it coming from scum.
Already pointed to this one.
[/quote][/quote]AV wrote:Read that as: "Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless. I should not be lynched today"
Or if you prefer; "I'm not useless, unlike Gorilla, and I should not be lynched today"
Whatever permutation of that you prefer.
"Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless" is a supporting statement for your thesis "I should not be lynched today" no matter how you arrange the statement grammatically.
Thesis: I should not be lynched today
Supporting point 1: I'm not useless---irrelevant to alignmentnot sufficient in proving thesis
Supporting point 2: Gammagooey's bullshit--you're allowed to suspect 2 peoplenot sufficient in proving thesis
Supporting point 3: This is not my meta--if you know you're meta, you can manipulate it. Also, one disagreement does not warrant a throw-away of my PoVnot sufficient in proving thesis
Supporting point 4: Idk why people are voting me--so prove them wrong? Be more town? Stop being so passive-aggressive? Get rid of your survival instinct? There's a lot you can do, even if you don't know exactly why people are voting younot sufficient in proving thesis
Supporting point 5:Everyone else is doing it--do I even have to explain this?not sufficient in proving thesis
In conclusion, your argument has no legs to stand on. None of these are reasons why you shouldn't be lynched. People, tell me, do any of AV's defenses sway you and say "he's town?"
In the mean time, I think I'll make some soft jabs at gorilla, because I'm allowed to have more than one suspect."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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weird. really weird. Is that really the only information you received? I find it highly unlikely, especially if they were throwning in "lets say random stuff just to throw them off posts." Odds are you would receive more than one post (isn't it like 15% success rate?)"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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If I was misrepping you I wouldn't be asking you to clarify your statements.
point about IS is fair enough, I thought it was a stretch anyways. I still don't like the gorilla statement, regardless.
"everyone else is doing it" wasn't a misrep, I just should have explained it better. Using "look at everyone else" is not a proper defense for one's own actions.
so I'd say it was more like 3/5, meta being an opinion
I'm getting a mixed opinion about AV still. Mind's telling me SCUM and guts telling me NOOOOOO. I have problems with a lot of the people on the AV wagon, and gorilla isn't helping himself much. This is me telling ya'all that I have to decide between which of the two scum-reads I have is stronger.
@SJ and AV: do you regard gorilla's statement as a slip, or is it a bias based on your opinion of him prior to the claim? I can think of a lot of reasonable explanations for what he said. Interested to hear what you think the scum motivation is."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Swift Justice wrote:hey toastytoast explain to me why you've got a strong town read on hindu, or did at least idk how many pages ago i read that.
That was a looong time ago. His posts were breaking the "let's speculate!" trend I saw in early game. He's drifted into null now that activity is up.
AV'd flip threw me off quite a bit, so I'm going to re-examine pplz.
@Magua: you missed the option of 3)scum have a code.
Gorilla should post any result he got immediately."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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okay, so I got really bored (I should go to sleep), so I decided to start my reviewing process. There are two other people I'm going to look at before deciding my vote, but here are my conclusions regarding suspect number 1: Sociopath. My other two suspects that I will be reviewing are revengeofWi (to check out a growing wagon and some ominous feelings) and regfan (because I completely forgot he existed on multiple occassions)
Here we go!
40: Pregame, he was all about total war. This is null.
184: Never follows up on the Magua scum thing
208: Mina suspicion starts small, builds up at 416, then doesn’t get mentioned again. Note that the Magua thing was in agreement with someone else, and a few people found Mina’s play to be odd early on, only to get off her back later.
279: What exactly is the difference between a “this is wrong” and a “this is currently wrong”?
417: lol @ calling the most useful thing Regfan has posted a scum claim. Never backed up his calling me scum, and quickly changed his mind. 496 is the closest we get
495: More banter with SDC. I can’t tell what it means—seems like he’s going after SDC without really calling him scum/being willing to vote him. The fight seems very much distance/a side note from the rest of what is going on
712: A lolk hop onto the AV wagon
715: Very true, but I think the fact that ppl found his scummy proves ppl weren’t “falling for it” (yeah, I know he flipped town)
764: Hops back to Regfan? Really? Did anything get added to your case other than “lolscumclaim?” Don’t understand how your single mention of regfan outweighs everything else you said about other people
894: Goes back to AV because of…his views on SK hunting? The note about Spy is odd
939: WIFOM/meta-manipulation
1004: MoI stuff…don’t know what to think of it. He once again switches back to AV in 1149. May have avoided RC lynch for town cred, only to bounce around different suspects D2. Something about his reasons/hopping comes off as artificial. Like everyone in this game is scum to him.
Conclusion:
Negatives: A lot of fluff and vote switching. His suspicions change rapidly. Out of his 5 votes, 3 of them were on AV. And yet he has mentioned Magua, TT, Regfan, SDC(?, random fights), Mina, LLD (?, doesn’t like her reads), MoI as scum. Likes to play to his “meta,” still hard to completely understand—very sporadic. SpyreX Wifom
Positives: Made some good points about RC, has remained consistent (well, for him, “consistent” is more like “say something random, vote someone random”)
The negatives outweigh the positives
Questions for Sociopath:
1) What about your self-ISO made you want to place a vote on Regfan?
2) You kept going back to AV. How sure were you that he was scum? Was there any particular reasons why we wanted to get off of the wagon in favor of someone else?
3)Any chance we can just get a list of your suspects? (wishful thinking)
Doing a RevengeofWi check tomorrow, but don't expect it right away. I have tennis to watch."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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The only problem I have with "the plan" is that one of the three people in "the plan" suggested it, and it happens to be the one who, out of the three, I have the smallest town read on.
Given that it looks like Revengeofwei and sociopath are going to get nuked, I'm going to look at regfan.
Also, MoI's nuke isn't an anti-town nuke. Lets wait and see what happens."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Because I've been slow in gettin' that regfan info out....danakillsu
People should not be nuked today: Mina, Toogeloo, Pooky, MagisterLudi, Magua, Hinduragi (remove the nuke plz), Swift Justice
People who should be nuked/lynched: Sociopath, 'vengofwi, HezLucky
To be determined at a later date: Regfan, Gammagooey, gorilla
Sitting in nullsville: LLD, inHim, IS (leaning town), SDC (leaning town),
Completely reliant on the results of other events: MoI
Catching teh scumbags: Priceless"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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If regfan is scum, one of mina, ludi, TT, toog is scum with him. sorry if my notes are coming sporadically, massive headache atm.
Hindu, would you like me to clarify what I said?"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Magua wrote:ToastyToast wrote:If regfan is scum, one ofmina,ludi,,TTtoogis scum with him. sorry if my notes are coming sporadically, massive headache atm.
Hindu, would you like me to clarify what I said?
<_<
>_>
The four people who he wants to avoid nuking. This is regardless of my PoV. Strike-throughs are my own opinion."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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HezLucky wrote:ToastyToast wrote:People who should be nuked/lynched: Sociopath, 'vengofwi, HezLucky
It's too bad I'm obvtown.
What, exactly, has your contribution to the game been?
Wait. You think you're obvtown? You, who was a counter-wagon day1 and day2 for people who flipped town? BAHAHAHHAHA.
READ.
LLD and Hindu get townpoints for the code stuff. I'll try to help out, but no promises on how useful I'll be
Gammagooey wrote:hez, dana is still town.
MoI shouldn't get nuked even if socio flips town, socio death absolutely needed to happen today and scum would be more likely to hold onto theirs in case they got nuked and wanted to retaliate to avoid living obvtown.
Why? MoI is sitting on thin ice right now.
What are everyone's thoughts on the bussing comment? Having that revealed will likely make scum-team rethink things. In other words, we should keep in mind that scum may nuke scum/ be on scum wagon. Sociopath claiming submarine may link him to the message.
Really not liking Gamma's newfound reads. Pooky is scum? Hez and dana are town? what about there play is indicating this?
good, dana called off his nuke. Now thats worth some town points
Oh look, Ludi hopped off the regfan wagon after it started to gain support!
SP wrote:If either dana or Hindi is scum, the other is scum as well.
So if dana flips scum, then hindi is scum
If hindi is scum, then dana is scum
If either is town, the other is town? Or do you just not give a shit?
Okay, just to sort this outToogeloo is telling the truth about his claim. Strikes me as some weird double-gambit b/w gamma and SP.
Everything SP after this moment sounds like a desperate scum. FDIFUHFURUFURH KILL SDC DJOFRFUHUDFH OMGUS DLKJFORIFHRUG DIE.....Maybe he's speaking in code. LLD, Hinduragi, can you tell me what he's going on about plz?
inHimshallibe wrote:LLD is also scum that cracked the code imo.
what makes you come to this conclusion? The fact that it only worked for one?
Gamma is making me rethink revealing the above information.
Gammagooey wrote:
And If I had ACTUALLY blocked Socio then why in the fuck would I claim not to when he claimed non-nuke, it's just fucking ASKING for him to claim fighter or radar or some shit and do exactly what he just pulled a second ago.
Gamma definitely wouldn't have lied about his target. Which assumes that SP is lying about something. I feel like i'm missing something tho (dam headache). also, how does it ask for socio to claim fighter/radar?
ludi-hez-regfan triple bus? there is scum somewhere in those three, and I don't think its just one. Especially given how weak their votes on each other are.
okay, i'm starting to see the angle at which LLD is coming from, but if you don't mind I would like you to pull off the nook on toogeloo until the flip. Then, if anyone else is available for teh nuking, they can do so based on the flip, or we can use it for the lynch.
Regfan's list of nuke targets gets a big EW. But, he reminded me of revengeofwi. The lack of ANY COMMENTS from a hydra means that nook is staying on.
Hinduragi wrote:One of {SDC,Reg, Toog} needs to be replaced withToastySocio on that scumlist,Socio.
FTFY
Actually, Socio can replace both SDC AND TOOG
SDC and IS are goodposting again. I also think SDC's whole "I know how SP plays" comes of as genuine."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi wrote:Toasty, I was voting for gorilla, not Regfan. As far as I'm concerned, for being the lowest poster, Regfan should get a nuke.
sorry bout that, but i think you guys as scum together makes sense for other reasons. Primarily the similar want to reduce the playing field to about 4 obvtown players."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Magister Ludi wrote:Whats the problem to reducing the playing field to four really strong town reads?
We could be wrong? Yeah, its always possible, but I trust myself to at least reason out two or three other townies over the course of an entire game.
My problem with it is that you suggested yourself. And I didn't have you as a strong town read. Regfan's reasons are a bit more selfless, but he's basically trying to set EVERYTHING up, which I also have problems with. Quite simply, things change. With the toogeloo issue, hindu and SP's suspicions on me, Mina disappearing...its just not good to try to set up the entire game."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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SDC has said more in his limited posting than you have with your active posting. Your blowin hot air, what he's saying is genuine/legitimate."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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If gamma is scum, sp and hindu are town?
I'm getting confused....whose flip implies anothers allignment and why. This recent convo is hard to follow"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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Swift Justice wrote:(Equinox)
Hey, ToastyToast, if you had the power to vote, who would you vote and why?
I'm waiting of the nuke flips. Regfan is my scum-read that hasnt been nuked, and my MoI read will be largely influenced by the SP flip.
PEDIT: lol ok gamma is scum"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Hinduragi wrote:What happened to modkilling yourself?
Unvote; Vote: SDC
even after regfan's fail nuke?Vote:Regfan
Ur reads are still bad (at least I agree on your final 3)"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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ToastyToast Mafia Scum
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