Cause I used that joke myself in some games, that's Y.hasdgfas wrote:vote: Y
Y not?
Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)
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Y Mafia Scum
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But maybe they're newbies, and they don't know who the stronger players are...
You do know that in that game I was a good town player, but I turned out to be scum, right? I mean, you should, you were told so in your role PM...
By the way, my tactic on that gamewas"do stupid things and convince everybody it was some one else's noobish mistake". I won't fall for my own trap, you know.-
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Y Mafia Scum
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It was a followup to the previous post (Where I talked to Capricious). I made a comment about the game insinuating he's scum because of that game, while in reality we were both scum in that game. It was a joke, nothing useful, but Capricious is actually starting to analyze it... He's meta-gaming, and he's doing a terrible job (He shows how I was very pro-town and saying scum should have noticed it, while I was scum in that game).-
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The problem with your point, Mizzy, is that the votes in this stage are not meant to get people lynched immediately, they're there to put pressure and point to scummy behaviour. If I'm voting some one, it doesn't mean I'll try to convince the whole town to lynch him right now.
I do believe that three pages are more than enough to start looking for subtle things.-
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After emphasizing that the wolfsbane kept the werewolves out for good, you say you don't believe this is the case. Do you have a role PM saying they are here again? Their names, maybe?Capricious wrote:On the werewolves:
I still believe werewolves are scum and will continue to do so until we have reasons to suspect otherwise. The "For good" part of the flavor just sounds melodramatic. However, we might have reason to believe that power roles using wolfsbane are, in fact, ineffective.
Furthermore, you say there are werewolves, but that power-roles with wolfsbane won't be effective?
I think you forgot the "Pro-town investigation roles, please don't target me" part.-
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1. He wasn't on the "limelight".Mizzy wrote:It's happened to me before that I post some sort of question or logic or possibility or what-have-you and someone who's been in the limelight in a not-so-good way has used that post of mine to divert attention off of themselves and onto me.
2. He asked for a discussion, not referred to your post and asked for a discussion.-
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In one hand I see no real progression in the RS case. On the other hand, we have Capricious, who decided to remain really quiet all of a sudden. I believe he's hiding while some one else is in the spotlight, hoping to be forgotten.Sir Tornado wrote:I'm a bit curious about how Y and Skruffs effectively derailed the RS wagon, and it is noted.-
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Him being scum in other games makes no difference to this game. This post is completely irrelevant.Skruffs wrote:Not really. Me and Zindaras have a history, a history in which he wwas factually scum every time but one. So I am trained to be suspicious of him now. I'm still posting out side of that suspicion, but as the number of players dwindle, the more likely i will be to push for his lynch.
Is there anything productive you'd like to add?-
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I don't have much time, so it'll be short. I hope I'll be able to elaborate later.
Skruffs is using meta-game info, but using only games they both played together. Although I understand that you can't know him without playing with him, you also can't discard all the games you didn't play together.
It seems like you're pushing a move that can't really be proven, especially if you have no concrete info from this present game.
You did the same with RS: You have accusations and theories, but none has any real connection to the game.
Vote Skruffs.-
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You're using outside, mostly irrelevant, information. By discussing it, we get to even more information not connected to the game. It's a circle.Skruffs wrote:You are voting me because my suspicions and theories are ... not connected to this game?
What are they connected to?
What are you getting at, exactly? I am working with the information I have: This game is not giving me enough so I am pulling in outside information to be discussed and used or ignored, and everything I am saying *is* based on the game, but like Mizzy and Zindaras, you are ignoring the parts that actually have to deal with this game, and focussing on the Deliciously Easy Scapegoat of Using Metas.
We're at page 9. Remove all the metagame talks and see how you're left with almost nothing. Adding even more metagame information gets us less in-game information.
I'd suggest you read the game before you start accusing people. The player who wrote those arguments is Capricious, and I confronted him about it. I remember what I said or not said, so please don't try to put words in my mouth. Thank you.Skruffs wrote:This coming from the person who suggested that the mafia might be newbies who didn't know who the stronger players were,followed by your own suggestion that they would know strong players would be protected and so targeted a player unlikely to be targeted.
Is this a situation where you are acussing someone of doing the samae thing you did, aka a newbie mistake? Cuz I thought you only did that as scum.-
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Skruffs, last time I was scum, I really wanted to get a townie lynched. I believe most scum groups like townies getting lynched whenever they can.
What you're doing, actually, is to encourage a lynch, saying that whoever doesn't is scum, while the actual interest of scum is to get people lynched.
Nice one.
What are you basing this numbers on, when we don't really know anything yet?Skruffs wrote:If there is a scum group of some sort, and only one (as compared to an individual or multiple smaller partners) then there are probably 3 of those scum.That meansa that out of 11 players, if scum decides to not post after deadline, 6 out of 8 of the town players HAVE to post EVRY 24 HOUR cycle to contin discussion.-
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No. I'm saying that your logic is somewhat flawed if you think that if any one isn't posting, he's definitely scum.Skruffs wrote:Are you *REALLY* insinuating that because scum like to get townies lynched, I must be scum, because I am trying to avoid a no lynch?
This theory has just what scum need - A completely arbitrary way to accuse people without a proved case.-
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Elmo wrote:
Examples?Y wrote:Skruffs is still my main suspect for trying to make facts about who must be scum without a real basisSkruffs wrote:Anyone who's NOT voting and DOESN'T post in the next fourteen hours is scum trying to push a nolynch.Skruffs wrote:Just considering things here:
If there is a scum group of some sort, and only one (as compared to an individual or multiple smaller partners) then there are probably 3 of those scum.
Although she wrote the exact same thing in other games.Skruffs wrote:^- Translation "hope for nolynch"
Are those enough?-
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Completely missed the daytalk thing. That's interesting...eldarad wrote:Capricious wrote:Unvote, Vote: Capricious
need a lynch, but come to your senses and lynch Andycyca day 2I think this is a scum gambit. It's more effective in this game than others, because the scum can daytalk. They can orchestrate their votes/unvotes on the Capri wagon much more effectively than usual.
Also, for the record, I think self-voting in general reeks of scum. I'd lynch someone for it any day of the week.-
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Happily...Yosarian2 wrote:Y, could you explain why he's your main suspect right now? (Also, re-reading Y's posts, that thing about easter was great. )
At one point he started making up "rules" about who is scum. He wasn't suggesting nor sharing his thoughts, he was just claiming that is the case.
Now based on his own declaration, he just can accuse whoever he wishes without any one questioning it, and maybe get other people to follow.
He's also basing most of his play on meta-gaming, which isn't as helpful as he's making it look like (While accusing one of our best players. Convenient).
All in all, I get from him the feeling that he's trying to make opportunities for future lynches while being under the radar.-
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And you weren't even nice to him this game...Zindaras wrote:I do not think Skruffs is scum based on his attack on me. I personally see it as a null tell/slight town tell. I find Y scummy for attacking him over it (I felt it was a very opportunistic attack), and I'm somewhat disturbed by Mizzy's vote as well, but I need to re-analyze the game again.-
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Skruffs, enjoy:
I also don't see the Zindaras-Mizzy pair you're mentioning.Ether wrote:Elmo quietly goes through Capricious's wallet. There's a bit of money and a library card--that's it. You know that other towns sometimes have mafia problems, and mafiates can be identified by their standard concealable water guns.But how do you recognize an enemy that uses its own body to kill?
At this point, the moon conveniently rises. Capricious's body doesn't change at all. You scatter before the real werewolves can change, 'cause then they'd probably eat you.-
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Here's why I voted Capricious. This is almost the same post I was going to write before the lynch, with a few changes made knowing his real alignment:
Posts 38-39:Capricious tried to over analyze the N0 kill. Not only that, but he was implying that I should have been killed for being a strong townie (While using as an example a game on which I was scum). I also get from him the same strategy I used, as scum, in that game - "The choice is illogical, I wouldn't do that as scum".
Post 61:Capricious answers eldarad's questions, but he's obviously avoiding real answers.
Post 98:"Last time you voted me I was town, and I guessed right who the scum were, and no one believed me. The town will lose if you lynch me". Using emotions and completely irrelevant information as defence - Never good.
Post 103:Admitting he used meta information, and not good info.
Post 104:Quotes another player's suggestion for discussion (Mizzy), and leaves it as is. Just a "Look at me, you're just thinking I'm not really playing the game, but I do". That's plain-sight-lurking if you ask me.
Post 107:Accuses hasdgfas for actually telling the town exactly that. Also he says he believes there are werewolves, but wolfsbane won't help. "I believe werewolves exist. I believe fighting werewolves won't help. Choose one". That's the same "I'm here! I'm doing things!".
Post 112:Completely missing my point and accuses me for things I didn't say. He also contradicts what he said about wolfsbane in 107.
Post 114:Completely contradicting his 107 by saying power-roles probably do have wolfsbane. I believed, at the time, that he either knew something, or was trying to lure some one to slip and say something about wolfsbane.
Posts 116-117:Obviously accusing people without knowing what he's talking about.
Post 151:Talks to eldarad and then votes for Andycyca. No reason given.
Posts 168-169:Actually saying voting me had a good reason (It didn't). Remembers to actually say something about the Andycyca vote.
Posts 192-195:Protecting Skruffs' irrelevant meta-gaming. Misrepresents eldarad's post. Discards Mizzy's post with no explanation.
Post 214:"I'm stupid". Poor Capricious uses emotions again.
Post 227:Feel is important, but he's completely dismissing everything else. That's understandable, for some one who ignores logic most of the time.
Post 262-263:Self vote, to avoid a no-lynch (After saying we shouldn't do so in 194. Calling for an Andycyca's lynch D2.
Post 267:Calling people pro-town. No explanation. Again.
Post 271:Adding other people to the "good list". Same lack of reasoning.
Post 274:"Elmo is town for defending me when I do something stupid".
Post 293:"Town are creators, scum are concluders". Weird, I saw no real creations from Capricious.
Post 297-298:Andycyca is no longer scum. Capricious uses the last post as an excuse to let it go. Defends the illogical statement from 274.
Post 316:"I'm here". Doing nothing, but here.
Post 320:Another list without real explanation. The two people he actually explains his thoughts about are me and eldarad. Both of us are "Maybe, maybe not" in his post.
Posts 364-366:Glorifies Mizzy again. "She must be town for defending me". Of course, there's no possibility for her to be scum, getting confirmed for protecting a townie who's about to get lynched, right?
Suddenly attacks hasdgfas. Doesn't really care he's on his way to the noose.
Posts 368-370:Attacks Zindaras too. Shooting in the dark?
Post 403:"Everybody, just follow me".
Some meta:Last time I played with him, he disappeared once he was about to get lynched as scum, not giving too much of a fight.
As a whole, I got the feeling that he's just trying to put suspicion on people, giving no importance to how or why. The way he accused and defended people seemed completely disconnected to the actual way those players played the game.
I played with Capricious and I know his logic might be off sometimes, and I think Skruffs is scum, so Skruffs was my better choice. When we got close to deadline and we needed a lynch, Capricious not being such a good player seemed to be much less important than all the other things he did.
As to Andycyca's hammer, I think he was just tired of the day dragging along. I actually hoped some one would do that already, since no real progression was being made. I believe it was a compulsive action. Not necessarily a good one, but not definitely a scum action. I also believe that it was obvious he'd be questioned about it, and would be the easiest target for the scum to push toward a lynch.-
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Lurking isn't scummy? Using wrong/baseless accusations to put suspicion on people isn't scummy? What about not adding real info for discussion, while trying to appear as if he does?Mizzy wrote:According to Y's post, the major driving force behind lynching Capri was because he was doing some stupid shit. Not that he was doing scummy shit. What gives with that? If we lynched every moron, we'd have more ghost-towns than anything.
You can't say he wasn't scummy. I saw him doing the same mistakes he did here when he was my scum partner. What I got from his play style (And you can clearly see it in post 38), is that he tries to get rid of the stronger players and remain with the weaker ones. You can definitely see that in Newbie 546 (Post 106 on that game, in particular).-
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RS: I really don't think Mizzy, Zindaras and Skruffs are scum together. It's very unusual for three people, all of them on the same scum group, to fight each other so badly. Worst case scenario - They're all lynched. Best case - One of them gets lynched. Bad either way. One, maybe two? Could be. All three? I don't think so.
Mizzy, you're saying you're attacking no one, yet you keep throwing accusations all over the place.-
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That's my point: You're saying that, while doing the opposite.Mizzy wrote:Someone asked me for why I didn't like the Capri wagon, so I said why.I also said, in the same post,that I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just giving reasons why I stayed off of it.
Skruffs, I'm not "looking for proof before I vote", but I do tend not to vote people just for the sake of voting. I vote when I thing the vote should be placed on some one. I'm sorry to tell you that, but I see little connection between your logic and reality.
By the way, if I was voting, my vote would be on you, by the way.-
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I actually wrote a big post, and it seems like everybody missed it. I did think, at the moment, that Capri was scum. I was just less sure about it than about Skruffs (Who keeps trying to make up accusations using some weird logic).
Zindaras, you keep me at the top of your list, yet you're the only one, and you're ignoring my responses. Why is that?-
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That's my guess too, but I wanted to hear what he has to say. A response like that is complete WIFOM. I wanted to see if he has something better to say.Zindaras wrote:Y: Skruffs is probably going to say that now he has accused us, we're quaking with fear and have decided to distance.
Mizzy, you seem to overreact too much (Not necessarily scummy, but overreacting).-
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I anticipated a WIFOM response, but I wanted to hear what you say. I actually do try to hear what people have to say before I lynch them.
The way you just dropped the accusations you had on Zindaras and Mizzy looks as if you were just waiting for the opportunity to get out of the mess you got yourself into.-
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Skruffs, I don't know if you noticed, but I said "got convinced" (Using quotation marks), meaning you didn't say it, but gave that kind of feeling. I don't know about you, but in Hebrew quotation marks are also used to write things, insinuating other things. I wasn't quoting you, but saying what was the feeling I got from your post.
I want you to quote the post on which I asked for proof. If you can't, please don't accuse me for it.
If there's some one who makes absolute declarations, it's you.-
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You were saying that you suspect Zindy and Mizzy for buddying up with each other, so when you said you weren't thinking so any more, I were under the impression they no longer look scummy to you. Was there any other accusation against any of them that wasn't "allieved"?Skruffs wrote:I am questioning how you came to the conclusion, insinuation or otherwise, that I am "convinced" that they are not scum. I said my suspicions of them for clearing each other day one were allieved. That doesn't mean a dang thing about their alignment.
Unless I missed it, you and Zindaras don't really know each other. I know that if a friend of mine was playing this game, I would know how to annoy him, make him respond in specific ways or could foresee his reactions. That doesn't apply in this case.Skruffs wrote:Why does this not apply to Zindaras and me, as well? Would you say that Zindaras is not baiting me, like you have admitted to doing, into saying stupid stuff that he can discredit later on without putting himself at risk?
Furthermore, when did I admit I was baiting you? I never said such a thing. Saying that once you got them talking we might get new info, or that they might slip up, could be a good answer which wouldn't be neither WIFOM, nor would make you look like an idiot. You're getting my posts out of their context and than use them as if they were complete proof for your absurd accusations.
I'd say he made too much noise about you to be able to actually make it happen.Rotten Snitch wrote:Guilt free: Meaning that you were trying to get others to present the case on me so you could agree and lynch. Once I turn up town then you can accuse the one who made the original case and get away guilt free.-
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