569 Adel's Nightmare -- Game Over!

[cicero]

Well. At this rate the game will be over shortly. Four deaths.

Vote Occult

There's clearly enough Occult in this game already, you!

[cicero]

Wasn't xiao/Guardian scum?

What makes you say that, DG?

[cicero]

I'd just like to mention, about my speaker for the dead role, i can converse with anyone who is dead, via adel to avoid me or them asking or revealing anything inappropriate. As far as i know, and according to Adel and Aborted Elephant, there could be various factions, and each one might not know their own objective, and whether they are scum or not.

Could you explain this more?

From my role pm, the flavor at the front, and the kills it

seems

clear to me that there are two factions. One which is trying to wake Adel up and the other that is trying to keep her trapped in her nightmare.

Night zero ended up seeing two scum and one townie get killed. That's my interpretation. So what am I missing?

Also, Porochaz. I think what you did is read the note from beyond the grave and see something that is "wrong" in it. Then realised you either said to much or were mistaken and ducked back down. Do you have a good townie reason for not telling us what that was? Maybe you should just articulate your thought process for us.





[/i]

[cicero]

No. I forgot to include that one because it came in the next post in the morning. Notice how there are 2 and 1... then another 1?

[cicero]

Rigel is sparky and is dead.

Vote Streetflo

for flavor reasons. Autocrat sounds like a natural godfather role.

Also I'd like to pressure Streetflo and Porochaz into having a more productive discussion of the rights and wrongs of the writings of the Speaker For the Dead.

[cicero]

Well, roffman, Quantumfruit, were you in a group of ambiguous alignment with aborted elephant and cold fairy?

[cicero]

Well are you or aren't you? Soft claiming is for nerds and communists.

[cicero]

Well I'm a little confused about what the problem is. At the moment there are four corpses and there's a plea to consider resurrectng him if no better option appears. We don't need to rely on the quotes from the dead to choose who to resurrect. We can just look at their alignments and raise the townies.

Your complaint seems based on the fact that the dead person claims tracker and you are a tracker already. I think I gotcha there.

But I'm at a loss to figure out what you think scum would be trying to accomplish with the note. It seems genuine.

[cicero]

Cicero..... did you just soft claim?

No. I just addressed the letter. :S What are you on about?

[cicero]

I'd like to lynch Porochaz for making me read about Oman's fucking cum every day. But in this case I cannot. He is correct. I did nothing last night.

[cicero]

Not only have I never seen any player come close to being as good at mafia as porochaz is, I've never seen anyone be as good at

anything

as porochaz is at mafia.

[cicero]

On the subject of my guilt and innocence, this is an opportune time to quote the last line from my role pm (since Adel has said in rule 19 that we may quote anything we wish in this game):

Other players will naturally fear and loath you -- they will not understand you --you are Anubis.

This makes me think I

may

be a miller.

[cicero]

DrippingGoofball, always with the not thinkin' things through.

@Occult - I'll tell you this much: I

chose

not to target anyone last night. It wasn't because there was nothing I could do. I have more than one power, essentially.

[cicero]

And I bet I'm not the only one.

[cicero]

Well - since the cat's out of the bag pretty much anyway:

yes folks. I'm a resurrector.

And just so you know, I am also, basically a vigilante. It goes like this. If I target someone alive there's a chance I'll kill em. Target someone dead there's a chance I'll bring em back. The word "accidentally" is in my role with respect to targetting someone alive though. So I pressed Adel on whether I was some kind of CPR doc and she wasnt too forthcoming. But it basically looks like a resurrector vig combo.

QF - a miller is someone who looks guilty to a cop investigation. The only reason I'd doubt being a miller is because I know Adel hates cops so I wouldnt be surprised if there's no cop in the game. And with no cop there's no miller. It might just be there because of the duality of my role.

As for my alignment, it'll be patently obvious by who I choose to raise and how I choose to play. I'm all for waking Adel up and will play that way. The people I resurrect will also want to wake Adel up.

PS. People who want to wake up Adel are town. People who want her trapped in her nightmare are scum. It ain't that hard, people. She just shoved the word "do" in there.

[cicero]

Do you realise you're in Adel's Nightmare?

Role PM


Role: You are anubis.

Win Condition: You do win if I wake up before the morning of the Eight day.

Alignment: You not prevent me from waking.

Night move: Each night you may PM me the name of a target player. If that player is dead, you may be able to bring them back to life. If another player sees you it will probably look to them like you are trying to suck your target's soul out through their breath. If your target is actually alive you may actually accidentally suck their soul out, leaving them extinguished and dead. Other players will naturally fear and loath you -- they will not understand you --you are Anubis.

Once the Night 1 deadline has expired, or I have received night moves from all players who have one, I will post an opening scene and open the game thread.

So here's the correspondence:

Night move: Each night you

may

PM me the name of a target player.

If that player is dead

, you may be able to

bring them back to life.

If another player sees you it will probably look to them like you are trying to suck your target's soul out through their breath.

If your target is actually alive

you may actually accidentally suck their soul out, leaving them extinguished and dead. Other players will naturally fear and loath you -- they will not understand you --you are Anubis.

Heya. I have my role PM but what do you mean by dead? Is my power to vig (percentage chance of success) and to resurrect?

Basically, someone gets lynched day one, can I resurrect them (% chance of success) at any time later in the game?

Or is this a quack doctor roll where "raise from the dead" means "doc protect", and, if they are not attacked, I may accidentally kill them?

Obviously I'm also a miller?

Then these two:

I'm not trying to be snarky. The role PM you have is about as much information as I can give you, especially since you are not stupid. I can be more forthcoming in answers I post in the game thread.

Why be snarky. I caught all the important phrases. (I'm a lawyer and not so stupid, really) I was wondering what level of poetry was at work in the language and whether it corresponded to more common mafia roles. In this game "dead" could have a specialised meaning. But given your answer am I correct if I assume that the words have their normal mafia meaning? so:

dead - means dead. Out of the game. In other words I can attempt to resurrect any player who has been removed from the game at any previous time.

If I target someone who is alive (still eligible to vote and post) there is a chance I will kill them.

The reason I flagged it is because of the term "accidentally". Under the above circumstances one would not normally cause an accidental death.

And am I a miller?

This rule 19 is fun.

[cicero]

/shrug. Be uncomfortable. The quotes are the real deal. The only thing to note is that the h is missing from the word eighth. And that appears to be on purpose or a mistake she fixed later. Check out Adel's post 2.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 156#948156

Check and see if the same mistake appears in each of yours.

[cicero]

Unvote. Vote Occult

Upon reflection, your behavior in causing me to claim disturbs me.

[cicero]

Quick message from Cicero:

Learn to read, Elephant.

Win Condition: You do win if I wake up before the morning of the Eight day.

Translation: I win if Adel wakes up.

Alignment: You not prevent me from waking.

Translation: I don't want to do anything to prevent Adel from waking up.

I still don't get why the use of "do" and "not prevent" are making this hard for people.

[cicero]

roffman, the dead scum are aborted elephant and cold fairy. You should not cast their votes.

And also, Occult is scum. Occult, it was not obvious. I did not say "hey, I'm a resurrector or anything like it. All I apparently did was leave out "if there is a resurrector". Townside player could have let that float by to ensure that he didnt make noise for scum. You refused to go along with it twice and specifically called attention to me twice. That's role fishing and creating a target. Hamas rabbit was already on my list of probable flavor scum. What I'm betting is that you have an anti-town role but want to avoid trying to kill me yourself. Which means you may not be the same faction as some of the other scum. I'm not sure what's going on but I definitely see anti-town play. I'm happy with my vote.

[cicero]

Sorry Occult, I'm not buying it. You can either cover over a townie's mistake or you can exploit it. You chose to exploit it.

Now - the second half of your paragraph is irrelevant. I already had a target on my head by that point. People were beginning to speculate about me being a resurrector.

With respect to the first half, if you read it in context with the note we got from the beyond which postulated about the existence of a resurrector. We also have a speaker for the dead and dead players able to continue to play the game through him. So on what planet would we NOT talk about a resurrector? But that doesn't change anything. You could have let the "error" slide or you could have made damn sure there was a target on my head and this is what you did:

Cicero..... did you just soft claim?

No. I just addressed the letter. :S What are you on about?

No. I'm almost positive (maybe not entirely, but a pretty good idea) I know what you do and because of that, I feel like I should believe Poro.

This is not how I would have played the situation if I was you and a town player at all.

[cicero]

Sorry Occult, I'm not buying it. You can either cover over a townie's mistake or you can exploit it. You chose to exploit it.

Like you covered Poro's Mistake?

This is how you played the Poro situation, bitch (I'm just using Bitch as a form of punctuation in this case).

Porochaz said "That quote is wrong, I think it's from scum based on something only I know". This is fundamentally different from me responding to a point speculating on resurrection with speculation on resurrection. That situation invited probing because it articulated a falsifiable conclusion. Mine did not. Here, let me show it again:

Well I'm a little confused about what the problem is. At the moment there are four corpses and there's a plea to consider resurrectng him if no better option appears. We don't need to rely on the quotes from the dead to choose who to resurrect. We can just look at their alignments and raise the townies.

Your complaint seems based on the fact that the dead person claims tracker and you are a tracker already. I think I gotcha there.

But I'm at a loss to figure out what you think scum would be trying to accomplish with the note. It seems genuine.

Note the post was made in the context of a discussion of why it might be important to know whether the writer was lying or not, which was premised on us making sure we didnt get tricked into possibly resurrecting the wrong person, which is what the writer was asking us to do if possible. I simply respond. And you look up and point and then when I deny it, you point again louder.

Now - the second half of your paragraph is irrelevant. I already had a target on my head by that point. People were beginning to speculate about me being a resurrector.

No, they weren't. It is relevant.

My answer (and one of the main reasons I claimed):

Actually, stuff makes more sense now. Porochaz is a tracker of some sort, so he has some information we don't have or he saw why the message from Xiao was suspicious based on personal ingenuity. Cicero didn't act night 1 (assuming he has a role as a resurrector) because there was not anyone to resurrect yet - we don't know his alignment though.

See that there? You did that there.

With respect to the first half, if you read it in context with the note we got from the beyond which postulated about the existence of a resurrector.

No it said IF, it does not explicitly state a resurector role.

Exactly, and yet from me discussing resurrection you leaped to the idea that I had to be it and said so. I didnt say I was the resurrector. At best I said something assuming there might be one. And you had to pipe up with a completely unnecessary "Cicero, did you just soft claim?". Sadly with the role name "anubis" things got a little obvious to people from then on.

We also have a speaker for the dead and dead players able to continue to play the game through him. So on what planet would we NOT talk about a resurrector? But that doesn't change anything. You could have let the "error" slide or you could have made damn sure there was a target on my head and this is what you did:

A Way to speak through a medium didn't definably mean a chance to be resurrected.

Course not. Yet you were damn sure what my role was. And damn sure you were going to make sure everyone knew it. You're being disingenuous, "bitch". Nothing I said was definitive but you did a "target: lock on: resurrector".

That's just facts.

[cicero]

So basically the case against Quantum Fruit is that her attempts to make us believe that scum is town is disingenuous?

Seeing as how I dont have the slightest problem differentiating town from scum in this game, I can go for that. Particularly since the dead scum just tried to sow doubt about my alignment as well. Maybe they all think they're masons. That would be hilarious.

Unvote. Vote Quantum Fruit

[cicero]

The serial killer? You mean Occult? Yeah.

[cicero]

I don't suffer from confirmation bias. I just require reasons to change my mind.

[cicero]

Sparky, what's your power?

Roffman, ask Sparky his power.

I need to know whether to resurrect Xiao or Sparky. If he doesnt want to tell me his power that's fine. Just ask him to make a case for resurrection if he wants it.

[cicero]

You need to go back and read the first thing you posted then.

[cicero]

You need to go back and read the first thing you posted then.

Which thing?

The one where Guardian claimed to be a tracker/fate sealer. Later amended to "maybe a watcher".

[cicero]

Im still deciding whether to trust you... cicero can you confirm this?

Confirmed. I hate cults and won't play in Norinel's game because of it. Guardian and I talked about it in private PM.

Good show, Guardian.

[cicero]

Hey all. I'm not V/LA but work and life are hectic for the next bit so my posting frequency, and specifically, depth - are going to be a little un-cicero. Enjoy the breathing room?

[cicero]

Occult, your favorite word seems to be Cicero.

[cicero]

Quantum Fruit, you did just that - it wasnt semantics. It seems that you are confused about win conditions. I just dont know if it's on purpose.

I can go for a Quantum Fruit or an Occult Day one ending.

[cicero]

You really are new, QF. Just so you know, we all assume DrippingGoofball to be, largely, insane, and mostly right by accident.

Just so you're up to speed.

(not that I don't love you, DG. You know that I do.)

[cicero]

Well listen - I would love nothing more than to give you the benefit of the doubt and go bug someone else, but logical arguments are based on truth before they ever get to validity and you had some trouble ascertaining the basic truth of your role pm when I did not. So if you cannot understand the basic fact that Adel waking up is the town goal of the game, how can I trust you? I've even had a jackoff from beyond the grave fuck that up...

[cicero]

HEy DG. When they're right, they're right. You've just been going through the game crying for a lynch, any lynch.

Unvote. Vote Dripping Goofball.

You really gotta stop that.

[cicero]

I dont see any tour de force of analysis behind your conviction, DG. Think you could use some quote boxes and do a big long post demonstrating the evidence for your convictions?

[cicero]

We're all scum targets already. You still need to support your opinions. They're killing me tonight anyway.

[cicero]

Hi! Up to deadline I would really like to ask people to

unvote. Vote Occult

I have a good feeling about lynching Hamas Rabbit. No guarantees. But I feel better about it than Streetflo or Quantum. And DG is... insane. (love you DG).

[cicero]

The reasons are as far away as the drop down menu and you appearing when your name is called like Candyman in the mirror.

[cicero]

I'm guessing differently, obviously. Let's leave it at that.

Let's not and say we did. He was referring to me.

[cicero]

What's what you thought?


*Ooh!*

...Oh. Just a pigeon. boring.



What's what you thought?

[cicero]

O_O

[cicero]

Cicero, just as a precaution does your role indicate whether alignment will be maintained, altered or otherwise adjusted (say to match yours) on the players you ressurect?

Didnt I post the entire role pm??

[cicero]

Now I'm saying that I did again.

Answer to Shaft.ed's question: It is silent on that matter.

[cicero]

I suppose lynching shaft.ed isnt sporting.

unvote. Vote Dripping Goofball.

Cicero feels like town as he's bouncing his vote around like a pinball. This is a town tell for him in my experience.

DGB feels like scum as she's NOT bouncing her vote around like a pinball. This is a scum tell for her in my experience.

[cicero]

lol

[cicero]

lol

I wonder if we're laughing for the same reasons, what does brilliant mean coming from DGB...

226 not 227

unvote. vote streetflo

Deadlines make me amenable. If testy.

[cicero]

I rezuhmerrected teh Guardian.

Sparky might be important. But Guardian is a fun player who posts a lot.

Why am I still alive?

I was counting on being nightkilled for real life scheduling reasons, goddamit!

[cicero]

cicero, did you target chaos omega night 1, by any chance?

Nope. I did not. I chose not to do a move.

[cicero]

Quantum Fruit: Hauling something out and claiming it's your PM at this point doesn't really prove much to me. In fact, just the opposite.

There's been more than enough evidence in the thread to allow you to copy it. Why should I believe you didn't just copy the role pm changes based on what's in the thread from myself and the now (alignment confirmed as town) Bloated Autocrat? What was so hard about your role PM the first time around?

Why shouldn't I lynch you right this very minute? Convince me.

[cicero]

Sorry to say, but we should lynch Streeflo again.

I haven't decided whether this is a good suggestion or a bad one yet. But picturing Streetflo's facial expression whilst reading... made me lol. Hard.

[cicero]

Guardian - DGB's suggestion makes total sense AND we can afford it. I see very little good reason for dismissing this our of hand. I also wouldnt be at all surprised to see an alignment flip in this setup.

I can't, in good conscience, just refuse to test this hypothesis. Plus - if he's still town, I can wake the little fucker up

Vote Streetflo

But then DGB will you wonder if his alignment flipped if he got woken up twice?

[cicero]

What was so important about waking up Sparky, Guardian?

[cicero]

SO DGB...

watcha up to, buttercup? I'd rilly rilly lik ta no, k.

-------------------------------------
Guardian, as much as I may believe you are sincere in your convictions here is what I know.

DGB targeted Streetflo. Streetflo lives. DGB wants to test if Streetflo is scum now. DGB may honestly wonder if you are scum as well as a result of my resurrection. Let's say we mislynch the both of you. We're still in a situation with a good bead on other scum.

What I mean is - that's an odd gambit for DGB to bother with as scum isnt it? A two day process to set guardian up for a mislynch? with lots of townies left? Arent you flattering yourself a trifle? Do you think she's scum now or misguided town?

Oh and at shaft.ed. You are replacing Occult. In this game I wont be trusting you any further than I can throw you.

[cicero]

I'm bored by the appeals to emotion, Guardian. It looks like defensiveness. I'm certainly persuadable but you arent remotely persuading me by jumping up and down and stamping your feet.

What perplexes me is why people aren't doing what DGB is doing. Contemplating the possibility of such a mechanism. The most sensible course may indeed be to re-lynch streetflo and if he's scum lynch guardian, and thereafter have the dead stay dead.

Now. Moving on from that. We have an interesting wrinkle given the evidence that DGB is the one who resurrected Streetflo in the first place. Might we learn much by lynching her instead? Two townside resurrectors? I think not. How about a scum resurrector and a town resurrector? Or something. Something is going on here. Something weird. On the other hand, The first night was a slaughter for scum. So maybe we just got lucky and there's just one scum floating around. The game isnt necessarily unbalanced in favor of town thereby necessitating alignment flip resurrection.

DGB - care to comment?

I'll be curious, by the way, to hear Quantum Fruit's answer to my question. Just in case anyone thinks I forgot about him.

And shaft.ed - Sadly I couldnt get buy in for your predecessor's lynch yesterday. That doesn't mean I have to trust you today. And you being possible scum doesn't mean I should ignore DGB's ideas and pursue you with blinders on. I could end up not lynching you OR streetflo, to town's detriment. So that quote retort there was just silly. Don't be silly, shaft.ed. Being silly is just... silly.

One thing this discussion suggests is that it might be better for the dead to stay dead in future.

PS. Streetflo - I would be gratified if just once you cried out for "Braaaaaaaaaains". Common courtesy, really.

(and on that note: click here)

[cicero]

Please explain why you guys feel keeping streetflo alive and not resolving this is so crucial to the game?

Please explain how you would balance a game with two (two) townside resurrectors?

DGB - Whether streetflow is resolved or not, unless we have a LYLO situation you and I should not resurrect anymore.

[cicero]

Im not much persuaded by Guardian.

Adel has pretty much already said she won't use a %mechanism in a mod note.

And Guardians number four seems to be trying to argue against a reasonably inferable game twist with a less reasonably inferable game twist.

DGB what do you think of the idea that we kill Streetflo and then not use our powers anymore.

Guardian - how about we have it both ways. We'll lynch streetflo and I'll attempt to kill Quantum Fruit with my bear hands in the night. Seriously. Let's talk about me just ripping that tatoo right off Adel's sleeping arm.

Have our cake and eat it to?

What say you all?

[cicero]

Guardian is telling you that she didn't submit a kill, I believe, Shaft.ed.

But she might be a cult type leader with the resurrected dead as her cult.

If she is reverse bussing, Shaft.ed, how is that ANY kind of argument NOT to kill Streetflo again immediately?

[cicero]

OK DGB,

You still havent promised me not to resurrect anybody anymore. I am making that promise.

All the scum need to be dead by day eight. We may have DGB or myself as some kind of cult recruiter who raises dead. If you think I'm that instead of DGB feel free to kill me int he night. I'm living on borrowed time anyway and refuse to resurrect any more.

Two scum are dead. There is a third scum out there and maybe DGB or me as a dangerous cult recruiter. She may not even know she is one. *I* may not know I is one.

Since we have a very good handle on who the last scum likely are, I am not inclined to keep bringing people back from the dead. It is entirely possible that DGBs strategy is designed to help run out the clock until the "Eight" day. I hadnt considered that but should have.

This is an order of operations problem. :/

[cicero]

So you think we aren't actually playing Mafia? I'll be sure to ask Mith to put this game in Mish Mash.

[cicero]

What if Adel never planned around two scum lying dead at our feet night zero?

Basically the game is the same. We hunt scum. If the number of dead scum equals 4 and the game isnt over, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Besides what do you care? Long as you live to the end, you win, right? You are suddenly saying "we" like you're on the town's side now?

Anway, what's the application of your statement. How should we behave differently. That isnt clear to me. You are saying "Ah... but Cicero..." but I don't understand the relevant play implications.

[cicero]

Actually, I think that might just be the mechanism in the game. It's pretty straightforward. And The night zero kills just screwed it up. It's very possible one of the dead are the scum reviver. It makes perfect sense.

Consider this scenario:

DGB is the townside ressurector.

There's a dead scum rezzer.

And me! Who is townside but is there to mix things up and make them screwy. Which means that if I target the same person they target, I'll screw their rez. If I target the same person someone tries to kill, I'll keep them alive. It's simple and elegant and fits with the whole eighth day issue.

Too easy.

[cicero]

Shaft.ed, read my role PM. I would have an effect anytime I targetted someone. Not just the other resurrector(s). I dont see your post as a real counterpoint. Who said it should happen very often anyway? and the odds you quote are completey wrong just from yesterday. The odds of DGB and I targeted the same dead person on day one were fairly likely actually. one in three before correcting for interactions. It didnt happen because it was clear I was choosing between Guardian and Rigel/Sparky. She steered clear and rezzed Streetflo.

[cicero]

Shaft.ed the second part wasnt intentional.

And in your analysis please be careful to separate setup from interactions. We can all claim and sort out the whole setup I suppose. I'm assuming the idea was for the town to find the scum rezzer. Adel couldnt know that I'd claim day one and DGB would claim day two. Without those claims, we couldnt choreograph. So you are mixing your analysis of the game's setup with the analysis of the game.

BTW this recent speculation argues against DGBs original position that we need to re-kill Streetflo. Just so we're clear. We can move back to deciding to kill you or quantumfruit.

I dont need any freepass from town btw. I havent done anything scummy and dont have anything to hide. Town can ask me any questions they want. So can you whenever you get that PbP done. And DGB seems to be honestly thinking out loud about making sure the town doesnt get screwed over by a weird cult-like mechanism.

[cicero]

eenie meenie minie moe.

[cicero]

Suspecting Roffman and doing a pbp on him strikes me as quite disingenuous in this setup. Apologies for disrupting all your hard work.

[cicero]

BTW - as Occult said before, yes, disingenuous is my favorite word. It is more polite than saying "I call bullshit."

[cicero]

BTW - as Occult said before, yes, disingenuous is my favorite word. It is more polite than saying "I call bullshit."

I prefer shenanigans, which I'm calling on your disingenuous bullshit.

My bullshit may be misguided but it isn't disingenuous, as you'll come to see if anyone gets around to killing me.

I think the scumhunting is a show, but I'm back on side with respect to killing someone who hasnt been dead yet. I think the scum resurrector who is dead makes more sense than the swapped alignments thing.

The difference is my choices are down to you and quantumfruit.

[cicero]

It's going to come down to order of operations, Shaft.ed. Roffman's role makes sense, as someone who can speak for the dead and is a neutral survivor.

QuantumFruit is actually quite content to die. I don't think she's gambitting but I'd still possibly support a wagon on her on her own logic alone. We have some time before the "eight_" day comes

You, on the other hand, are just playing a good job as last scum standing as I expect you would. Your PbPs are designed to look town. It's your best play. And admirable. But I'm not buying it.

When I look at your role PM:

Role PM

Role: You are hamas rabbit.

Win Condition: You do win if I wake up before the morning of the Eight day.

Alignment: You not prevent me from waking.

Night move: During each phase of Night you may PM me the name of one other player. If you can get close enough to that player you will explode. If your target is an evil Zionist they

will be eternally damned

when you explode. Innocent players close to you may die when you explode. So be it. You have that power because you are Hamas Rabbit.

It is possible that I've even figured out something very dangerous about your role. You may actually be a force in this game that kills someone permanently. It's also not remotely clear that an evil zionist would actually be someone evil. That line is clearly from Hamas Rabbit's perception.

Honestly, given that I know my own alignment, observing Quantum Fruit's play, and accepting Roffman's role as sensible given the set up, I am quite certain you are the play for today.

I am betting that, resurrection be damned, you will not find this to be a good idea at all. That is because you are the last scum.

[cicero]

Unvote. Vote Shaft.ed

[cicero]

Why exactly?

Case made against Occult already and process of elimination.

[cicero]

Looks at his watch.

[cicero]

Im really not focussed on mafia these days and would love to be lynched and all so I could honourably leave the game, but unfortunately I changed not one single syllable of my role pm.

If you lynch me, dripping goofball will be nightkilled I expect.

Guardian - not to interrupt arguments in my favor, but couldnt the same argument be put at Shaft.ed's door as well? He has a similar "vig" ability. What I'm not clear on is if Shaft.ed dies when he explodes. Have you exploded yet shaft.ed? You mentioned all the kills night one. Maybe you caused them.

[cicero]

I'm totally fine with going along with a plan that ends in my death and a town win.

[cicero]

The problem is that Shaft.ed takes out extra people when he kills.

[cicero]

It isnt quite that simple. I dont know if Adel will answer this but:

Mod: How would a crosskill with me and Shaft.ed work? He will explode. Does that mean he'll die? If he dies and I try to kill him will I save him instead?

[cicero]

We thought it would be fun, roffman. We were gonna make a day of it. Have a picnic on the island. Invite the Pittsburgh relatives. No?

[cicero]

Cicero is not scum. Stick to your plan.

OK so here are the major things I think cicero has done:
-Claims Miller Vig, later says Adel probably didn't add in a cop anyway to soften the fact that he claimed Miller.

No. There's nothing insidious here. Read the role pm. It talks about people hating me and misunderstanding me. How would you define that? And if you wonder if I amended the role PM, the whole thing has Adel's flow. Your predecessor tried to smear me by saying it had typos but it was a lie. There are no typos except for the H missing on eight, which is plainly done by Adel deliberately based on the bolded H at the end of eighth back in one of her first public posts.

-Prematurely quotes his role PM. This gave him huge town cred yesterday and still today as he had the proper wording for the archaic alignment. It seems highly likely Adel would have provided a safe claim for scum if role PM quoting was allowed. Town has no incentive to do this, for scum it is HUGE.

No. Occult was outing me and then Streetflo came along and proceeded from the assumption that I was the resurrector. I also had the "no one understands you" line, and at the time I understood the proper play if you thought you were a miller-type was to claim openly day one. Mafia discussion has since made me rethink this, by the way. But since people pretty much werent buying that I was anything but the resurrector plus miller issues I claimed. I also wanted to throw up the role PM in its entirety because this game - unlike every other game - allows for it. I amended not a single solitary word of it. The evidence for that is very simply that the role is very complex and involved and clearly comes from Adel's spinny head.

I also raised Guardian who is a very active and uncontrollable and useful townie with strong ideas about the game. I did not raise Sparky because his player has said precious little.

-Uses AE's baseless attacks on his alignment as a strategy for suspecting QF as scum.

This is very much a point in my favor. Aborted Elephant, who we know to be scum, threw mud at me. And Quantum Fruit's big scumtell is indeed mixing up the alignment issue. Other actions have been pro-town. But I see no reason why suspecting QF based on that is evidence that I'm scum.

-Jumped in on the Streeflo lynch without a single suspicion of him all of D1.

One can be a bit more cavalier to end the day when one knows one can ressurect Guardian as a certified pro-town player. I didnt make a strong case against Streetflo but I believe I said clearly on at least one occasion that Bloated Autocrat seemed like a good mafia godfather role.

-Revived Guardian over Rigel. Since Guardian is a fate sealer he can kill Guardian tonight and again remove him from the game, while taking out another townie so he's back to where he started from. Not only that but he gains a ton of town cred for having raised a townie and, in Guardian, a person he can count on to at the very least to vouche for him as town.

Guardian was raised because he's a pro-town player who will be active in the game and a good scumhunter who will consider all the ideas. Rigel didnt do much from beyond the grave. Historically I have a known bias in favor of active players that I exercised here. Im still not sure exactly how this fate sealer thing works but if Guardian wants to avoid that all he needs to do is not fate seal. More importantly you are actually using me killing Guardian tonight as a scumtell against me

before it happens

which is the biggest crock of shit Ive ever seen in the history of mafia. You have some balls.

-Has basically shut down the reviving roles until the town is in LyLo. This prevents DGB from res'ing townies which is crucial to cicero-scum in ever chipping away at the townie numbers in this game. Also clears him from having to further res townies and he can even attempt a frame up of DGB at some point by res'ing scum.

The no resurrecting was predicated on the idea that resurrectors might flip alignments. If people think that's not the case then there's no reason not to resurrect at will. But I thought it was very smart of DGB to bring it up and felt that there was no need to resurrect needlessly. Tonight if DGB resurrects Sparky as per Guardians plan that seems ok with me.

[cicero]

I understood the proper play if you thought you were a miller-type was to claim openly day one.

Your conflating quoting your role PM with claiming Miller. You can and did claim miller without quoting Adel.

So what? I posted the role pm soon thereafter to demonstrate why I "thought" about the miller possibility rather than state "I am a miller" definitely.

But since people pretty much werent buying that I was anything but the resurrector plus miller issues I claimed.

You had exactly zero votes on you at the time you posted your role PM and alignment. The post before yours was a vote for DGB from QF and four before that was a vote for Streeflo from DGB (ie suspicion was clearly elsewhere). Incredibly premature of you to quote your role PM if town aligned.

Nonsense. The point was to get it out first and with the least possible time to amend it to give it top visibility, credence, and to get people's input on what some of it meant. You are in a game where quoting your role PM is allowed so if I was going to claim, which was forced on me by your predecessor and to some extent Streetflo, then the sensible thing was to throw up the entire role PM. Especially since I did have a miller issue I was worried about. Are you trying to cite some precedent on when it is normally ok to throw up your role PM because the answer to that is never.

-Uses AE's baseless attacks on his alignment as a strategy for suspecting QF as scum.

This is very much a point in my favor. Aborted Elephant, who we know to be scum, threw mud at me. And Quantum Fruit's big scumtell is indeed mixing up the alignment issue. Other actions have been pro-town. But I see no reason why suspecting QF based on that is evidence that I'm scum.

You have heard of distancing right? It ought to be even more effective if one of the two engaged is confirmed scum. You seriously think AE's "attacks" could get any legs?

You've heard of WIFOM, right? Distancing is effective. Not incompetent.If his attacks would have absolutely no legs they arent really an attempt to distance but maybe an attempt to *look* like one is blatantly distancing in order to sully me.

I didnt make a strong case against Streetflo but I believe I said clearly on at least one occasion that Bloated Autocrat seemed like a good mafia godfather role.

On one occasion you said he had scummy flavor. That's equivilent to not making any mention IMO.

Your opinion is your opinion. Streetflo didnt do much good or bad that day. What he did do seemed mildly scummy and he had scummy flavor. My preferred lynch was Occult but that wasnt going to happen.

More importantly you are actually using me killing Guardian tonight as a scumtell against me before it happens which is the biggest crock of shit Ive ever seen in the history of mafia. You have some balls.

I'm not using you killing Guardian as a scum tell. I'm pointing out that scum-cicero can gain town cred by res'ing Guardian and wipe out the effects of it the following night. You don't have to worry about him targeting you, you res'd him for crying out loud. So you get your kill back. Thus you res'ing Guardian is a scum tell. Nice appeal to emotion btw.

Didnt you just accuse me of using the too townie fallacy? Isn't this the too townie fallacy? Everything I am doing is to get "cred". That's my whole argument about your big PbPs. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Shaft.ed. And that's what you are trying here.

[cicero]

Nonsense. The point was to get it out first and with the least possible time to amend it to give it top visibility, credence, and to get people's input on what some of it meant. You are in a game where quoting your role PM is allowed so if I was going to claim, which was forced on me by your predecessor and to some extent Streetflo, then the sensible thing was to throw up the entire role PM. Especially since I did have a miller issue I was worried about. Are you trying to cite some precedent on when it is normally ok to throw up your role PM because the answer to that is never.

You could have easily done what you wanted without tossing out your alignment portion of the PM. Stop trying to conflate the issues.

Really not following this train of thought. What is it you think a townie would have done?

You've heard of WIFOM, right? Distancing is effective. Not incompetent.If his attacks would have absolutely no legs they arent really an attempt to distance but maybe an attempt to *look* like one is blatantly distancing in order to sully me.

So which is it effective or incompetent? In your last post you said:

This is very much a point in my favor. Aborted Elephant, who we know to be scum, threw mud at me.

Now that I've called shenanigans AE's attacks hold no merrit so you can start the WIFOM train.

Your opinion is your opinion. Streetflo didnt do much good or bad that day. What he did do seemed mildly scummy and he had scummy flavor. My preferred lynch was Occult but that wasnt going to happen.

And your second choice was DGB who had some suspicions on her but would have involved you making waves. You took the path of least resistance.

And so far that's worked out well for the town.

Didnt you just accuse me of using the too townie fallacy? Isn't this the too townie fallacy? Everything I am doing is to get "cred". That's my whole argument about your big PbPs. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Shaft.ed. And that's what you are trying here.

This is not the too townie fallacy. You had town side choices of Rigel or Guardian. You chose the fate sealer who can easily cause the death's of two people the following night. Rigel was the more pro-town choice. Too townie fallacy would be if you res'd Rigel and I accused you of doing it to agree with the town. Very poor attempt at deflecting the issue here.

No. The whole argument rests on me trying to get "cred". If Guardian was the "wrong" choice I didnt gain cred, I risked it. If Guardian was the right choice that I did to get "cred" it's the too townie fallacy. But of course it isnt a fallacy. Sometimes scum do things for cred, like your PbPs. And also to set someone up. Like your PbPs.

You've made a decent argument for Guardian not using his fate sealing ability maybe but it simply had nothing to do with why I would resurrect him. It's a whole case based on a future action that hasnt occurred (and won't occur by the way, just in case anyone cares).

I give you Kudos shaft.ed but I really am not scum. It makes me curious about what your long term game plan is. When I die I will come up as townie. (You should know this because I have the alignment in my role PM and put it up first with it's odd wording which has since been confirmed by several others) so the question is - what do scum need to do to win? Or can they even. Let's say Shaft.ed is right. I'm the last scum. What's my play tonight? He'll vig me. What am I supposed to do, turn around and kill DGB? I'm already dead and the game is over. Is there another scum alive in your scenario, shaft.ed, that I seem to want to protect? If so, who? What's my great plan to win this game as the last scum when I fully expected to be nightkilled last night and am perfectly ok with being nightkilled tonight if we can make sure the plan has no holes in it? I'd really like to know.

[cicero]

Really not following this train of thought. What is it you think a townie would have done?

A townie would have posted the role info without the alignment. If it really has the super confirmation power you imply it should have been used as a test lynch D1. For example a bandwagon reaches L-1. Bandwagoner says post your alignment PM. Said person then quotes it. You then discuss whether or not Adel would have allowed scum to have such info. You bypassed this and posted it with zero votes on you.

And yet if you look, Quantumfruit's role pm looks exactly like someone who might want to fit the info in that role pm.

And so far that's worked out well for the town.

DGB's role was not known yesterday, don't be cute.

I stand by the choice. It was good for town. Guardian's been great so far. We still havent heard much from Sparky

No. The whole argument rests on me trying to get "cred". If Guardian was the "wrong" choice I didnt gain cred, I risked it. If Guardian was the right choice that I did to get "cred" it's the too townie fallacy. But of course it isnt a fallacy. Sometimes scum do things for cred, like your PbPs. And also to set someone up. Like your PbPs.

This is a false argument. You stated yesterady:

As for my alignment, it'll be patently obvious by who I choose to raise and how I choose to play. I'm all for waking Adel up and will play that way. The people I resurrect will also want to wake Adel up.

So you prefaced your alignment with res'ing someone who was pro-town. The advantage to scum in res'ing Guardian is not clearly obvious, and I only picked up on it during my detailed PbP.

I'm glad you thought of it, but I didnt and there's no evidence that I did either.

(You should know this because I have the alignment in my role PM and put it up first with it's odd wording which has since been confirmed by several others)

This is what the first point is all about.

That's fine - it may be that you think it was a bone ass move as a townie but I still knew the townie wording. I'm still townie. Unless you think Adel gave the scum fairly elaborate safe claims including knowledge of that wording, in which case it isnt useful at all to catch scum.

Is there another scum alive in your scenario, shaft.ed, that I seem to want to protect?

I'm not sure about that. I think it is more likely a SK exists and you are the last scum.

If an SK exists, Shaft.ed it is you. Why would I want to protect the SK? Why would I be quite content to be NKed as last scum? The simple fact is that you are afraid of being vigged by me so you need me to get lynched. It's patently obvious.

when I fully expected to be nightkilled last night and am perfectly ok with being nightkilled tonight

More appeals to emotion.

Not an appeal to emotion. A simple articulation that the proper play today is not me. I will attempt to vig you tonight. Count on it.

The key point in that last post was - why am I doing what I'm doing if I'm scum that needs to survive. I'm perfectly happy not lynching you and vigging you instead even if it means my death. Can you say the same?

[cicero]

Then we have no quarrel.

Unvote. Vote Quantumfruit

The case against you from my point of view has a great deal to do with your predecessor and process of elimination. The fact that you did three PbPs just doesnt dissuade me from my opinion that you're scum in this game.

[cicero]

If you use the dropdown menu you'll find what I have to say about your predecessor in 17, 19, 20, 21, 23, 24.

Please point me to your vote for Quantumfruit.

[cicero]

I want to lynch cicero. Period. I'm with shafted on this one.

You are wrong so often you should get some kind of medal.

[cicero]

The worst part is I cant even take this game off my watchlist. I might get resurrected. :p

Shaft.ed is playing you guys.

[cicero]

If things go according to plan, Roffman, tonight will end the game and you'll fulfill your win condition.

[cicero]

Shaft.ed has never really provided a reason for why he isn't going along with Guardian's plan. I'd like him to do so.

[cicero]

Now.

Shaft.ed has never really provided a reason for why he isn't going along with Guardian's plan. I'd like him to do so.

Because so far the only people agreeing to it are you and your spawn. Forgive me if I consider the opinions of the rest of the town. I am fairly certain you are not the only scum left whether they be aligned with you or a SK. So it would be to the town's advantage to remove you from the game without quicklynching QF (for whom I have not seen a case) and allowing me (for whom I have also not seen a case) to be crosskilled.

Last time.

The key point in that last post was - why am I doing what I'm doing if I'm scum that needs to survive. I'm perfectly happy not lynching you and vigging you instead even if it means my death. Can you say the same?

I've already said I'd agree with the plan. I just find it ridiculous that I'm being offered up when the case against me is "I'm playing too well."

[cicero]

I'm pointing out that you ever going along with the plan was a lie.

[cicero]

There are some potential drawbacks in your plan that we may want to discuss, Great Guardian, while we await the mighty and beautiful Quantumfruit.

Shaft.ed explain again because I'm not clear. Have you used your power once already? You mentioned all the kills on night zero. I assume that had something to do with your power being used by Occult.

Shaft.ed's PM doesnt say that he dies but a suicide bomber is inferred. It says each night he can use it, and we had a lot of deaths on night zero.

Next and related. If Shaft.ed does die when he blows himself up... and I target him, there is at least the possibility that I will protect him rather than kill him. Leaving you with me dead and Shaft.ed alive.

Oh and here's a fun fact I just thought of that won't help me at all but I'm saying it anyway. What if I'm a death miller? Wouldnt that be cute? I take that as a possibility from the wording in my role PM about being hated or misunderstood or whatever it was and the fact that we dont seem to have cops.

So yeah - bear this in mind - if I die and come up as scum and the game isnt over (which it won't be) - pay close attention to that fact. You dont really need to resurrect me (shaft.ed might try to kill DGB anyway) but dont think if I flip as scum that I actually AM scum. Read the role PM for yourself and draw your own conclusions vis-a-vis this interesting resurrector setup.

[cicero]

No. I have no partner in the game. I'm just not a third scum. If I get lynched the game wont end. You're very close to proving this proposition. Just takes one more vote.

If we do Guardian's plan and you explode yourself and I try to kill you and accidentally protect you you will be alive and I will be be dead, along with whoever else you kill. Game still not over unless you killed all the townies.

Actually maybe I'll just self-hammer. Discuss.

[cicero]

Why do you think it's Streetflo now? He was already dead and flipped townie. What theory are you operating on at the moment?

[cicero]

I believe shafted to be town and I'd rather lynch cicero.

@DrippingGoofball - You've said this twice now. But you are ignoring any and all of the substantive matters under discussion. You are just popping in and saying lynch cicero and leaving. Earlier you were simply saying lynch Streetflo again. You have not responded to the substance of any of the points and, in particular, to Guardians plan or the fact that I'm amenable to my death at Shaft.ed's hands tonight.

Why? What are your reasons for your one line opinion?

@Roffman - a death miller is a player who comes up scum on death even though they are town.

[cicero]

Dripping Goofball, are you just stubbornly waiting for people to need to rush to lynch me before the deadline on the 13th?

[cicero]

This is boring and I hate being bored.

Vote Cicero

Good luck in the night actions folks. May town win.

[cicero]

Sorry I meant

Unvote. Vote Cicero

[cicero]

Whatever - screw weak. This is a resurrection game. I'm taking advantage of the mechanism. Maybe I'm a death miller. May I just proved I'm town. You work it out.

But Shaft.ed's play is bullshit and I'm calling him on it the best way I can.

[cicero]

Vote Shaft.ed

[cicero]

It would rock if we could get the other players back in here. We need to vote Shaft.ed. Just like we needed to vote Shaft.ed yesterday.

This is not an alignment game.

Fuckin' weak my inpants ass.

[cicero]

I don't understand the question.

[cicero]

Ah. Gotcha.

I may nominate you for a scummy after this game. Best performance by scum in a hopeless situation not of your own making. Something anyway.

I'm not a zombie. Guardian is not a zombie. You are scum. You were scum yesterday. You are scum today. Tomorrow you will be nice Mister Shaft.ed looking for a new mini to join. diescumdie.

[cicero]

Mod: Request prod on all players alive and dead. But particularly on quantumfruit and Streetflo

[cicero]

braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiinzzzzzzz

[cicero]

Meanwhile we and scum shaft.ed will dance around and tell campfire tales.

I called Occult day one. I'm happy about that. I'm learning to trust my scum gut. It apparently doesn't suck.

But the work you put into that post by post analysis and the case against me was a really valiant effort. I learned from you in this game. I dont know that I would have the energy or interest to do what you did: Replace into the game as a lone(?) scum after an extremely unlucky night zero and make a really good go of it.

I'm not counting my chickens, by the way. I know the game isnt done. Just responding to your admission.

[cicero]

Yeah. Sorry. My mind is on other things these days. You havent been receiving a good cicero performance. I still think my audacious self hammer gambit worked well though. We had time in terms of games and I figured things would go exactly the way they went. DGB would see I was a townie, realise she was going to get nightkilled and resurrect me. If many other scenarios happened I was going to re-visit the idea that maybe it was DGB that was scum and do what I could about her from beyond the grave. It was a risk but it worked out the way I hoped it would.

Guardian - we have a sparky issue and a time issue.

I really dont mean to muddy the waters here. We should probably lynch Shaft.ed anyway. I just want to raise the idea of sparky needing to be resurrected before the last scum dies or something weird like that. I doubt it's the case and would make a town loss fairly arbitrary but it's worth bringing up.

@Rigel - any thoughts?

[cicero]

EDWOP: time in terms of nights.

[cicero]

Sure yeah, keep me around. Let's lynch cicero again just to see the expression on his face. <.< >.>

[cicero]

That was the funniest and most self deprecating picture I could find demonstrating what the look on my face would be.

[cicero]

[cicero]

haha!

I'm actually betting that that's real.

[cicero]

[cicero]

DGB revives Sparky. Not me. She is a straight resurrector. I can potentially be fucked with due to my vig/rezzer duality. So be on the safeside and let the pure rezzer to the most important job.

I'll happily revive Porochaz.

No DGB. We can't lynch Roffman today.

[cicero]

Confirm that you're down with that, DGB, and I'll vote No Lynch.

[cicero]

Mostly because I'm quite convinced that Roffman is exactly what he says he is. A neutral survivor message person. It just makes sense.

I would be worried about breaching his win condition for no good reason since I'm fairly sure waking Sparky will end the game. Note how Sparky died for no reason separate from everyone else? Sparky is the light that leads Adel out of the darkness. I'm sure of it. Rekindle the flame and wake the dreamer. I'm not lynching Roffman and potentially screwing his win for no good reason.

Yes - it's possible that if we kill him then I rez him in the night period while you rez sparky he'll still win. But do we really need to do that?

[cicero]

Vote No Lynch

[cicero]

vote No Lynch

That is the second No lynch vote.

Someone do the third.

ONLY dripping goofball do the fourth.

[cicero]

I wish there was some way to let Guardian know there is no cult. But that's useless.

I didnt act last night because I theorised a one step at a time approach with all the scum dead and Sparky plus all the townies alive.

And that didnt work.

so last stap is lynch Roffman.

Today is day 6 right? so lynching Roffman would still keep all townies alive. Then Im deciding - should I vig Quantumfruit or save him to be lynched tomorrow?

[cicero]

some players keep me from waking. once all players who prevent me from waking are dead I will wake up. that is all

Yeah - I think we have this. We just need to kill Roffman. But I'll vig QuantumFruit just to be sure.

Vote Roffman

[cicero]

Im content to just lynch Roffman and vig Quantum Fruit. If anyone else joins his pity party I'll kill Quantum Fruit instead, but I'd rather just get this over with. Roffman is a superior lynch because if you read his win condition it really does seem like he needs to die. "the chance to dream the nightmare is not lost". That seems like the opposite of my win condition tbh. But I dont feel strongly about it. As long as they are both pushing daisies shortly.

[cicero]

Apparently the problem here is that in resurrecting people it takes more people to lynch?

Hurry up.

[cicero]

Oh yeah. Forgot.

I dont know if this game is on Rigel's radar at all.

Mod Request Prod: Rigel

[cicero]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii...

...gel.

[cicero]

Rigel - don't worry about it too much. I'm not sure you should bother with a re-read. We more just need to know the specifics of your role.

We have a fair number of confirmed townies as a result of the ressurections and are fairly committed to the course of lynching Roffman and killing QuantumFruit in the night.

If that doesnt end the game we're probably screwed as a result of some weird but unlikely cult mechanism in the game.

Anyway, main point is: Is there anything special about your role we need to know? And also - any idea how you died?

Any one else have different questions for him?

[cicero]

Fine by me Adel.

@Guardian - I'm still not in a cult. The question is: are you. I'm the death god after all and gods make cults.

[cicero]

No. If we lynch someone for cult testing, Guardian, I'd say it is you first. I've done my altruistic lynching. Otherwise let's stick with the Roffman plan. Is there a rationale for your order of operations? Why not you first? Why not Roffman and QF first? This is what I'm not getting.

[cicero]

so stupid.

[cicero]

I love that my last game on mafiascum will involve me getting lynched and probably self-voting multiple times.

/sarcasm off.

What I don't get, Guardian, is why you are back on this now when you were so opposed to it long ago when we were thinking about it?

Anyway, I'm not going along with it easily this time. Which will make some people cry that I'm scum. Which is fine. Because then I'll get lynched anyway, and I will AGAIN come up town. So get the votes.

Unvote. Vote Guardian

. If there is a cult here, I'm probably the one creating it. I happen to know I'm not in one. And so do two other people that have been rezzed by DGB.

[cicero]

The three players I have resurrected are guardian, dripping goofball, and Porochaz.

[cicero]

and Cicero.

[cicero]

This is fairly straightforward.

Roffman's win condition pretty much says he has to die so can we kill him now?

"when the chance to dream the nightmare is not lost". That sounds pretty clearly opposed to Adel waking to me.

Unvote. Vote Roffman.

[cicero]

Unvote

I'll hammer.

[cicero]

You need to do the cult plan twice.

Once for each resurrector. So tomorrow you need to kill Guardian or you Porochaz. That leaves just one day at the end to do what actually needs doing and hope nothing else is screwed up. You are ok with being lynched tomorrow, I assume, Chaz?

[cicero]

Cool.

Because there *is* no cult and this is a waste of time. Adel even said when she started this game it wouldnt be about weird mechanics just lots of flavor.

Anyway, why not get this bullshit over with. Life is too short.

Unvote. Vote Cicero

[cicero]

Dripping Goofball I know you think this is stupid but please hammer me so you can be sure to resurrect me. AGAIN.

[cicero]

Yeah. This is all a serious problem. There's no point lynching me tomorrow because town wouldnt have time to kill "DGBs cult" if it existed, which I know it does not.

But here's the problem: I know I'm not in a cult but I cant know for certain that I'm not creating one. I also think it's infinitely more likely that Anubis would create such a cult rather than Soulless writer. So let's say we do Guardians plan and I'm not in a cult. The whole plan depends on DGB happily resurrecting me, because the ONLY way to kill a cult created by me in the time allowed is with my vigging help.

So let's say Guardian gets his votes and I die tonight. DGB as cultist will not resurrect me and the Servants of the Unwitting Anubis would then win the game because this game has that time limit in days.

BUT DGB doesnt seem to want to go along with the killing of Anubis - does this mean the cult needs Anubis alive? I don't think so because Guardian and Porochaz are happy to see Anubis get lynched. And Porochaz seems fine with getting lynched tomorrow.

I wonder if any of the three are ok with getting lynched today.

Basically I think town is fooling themselves if they think they can test for two cults and then, at a leisurely pace, lynch Roffman (Win Condition: You win when the chance to dream the nightmare is not lost) and vig QuantumFruit. Because the whole plan depends on the second cult cooperating in the investigation, which it would only do if it didnt exist.

So if you plan on lynching anyone, choose wisely.

Unvote. Vote Roffman

[cicero]

Im checking regularly so no. go ahead.

[cicero]

I've PMed by intention to vig Quantum Fruit to Adel and asked her to let me know if I need to redo it when the thread locks. But if I see the thread locked I'll PM her again just in case.

[cicero]

Night is apparently going to last 7 calendar days according to Adel.

:/

I was kinda hoping night would be irrelevant and the game would be over.

[cicero]

I hope so. I hope Adel doesnt it leave it to 7 days "just cuz".

[cicero]

sigh.

Perfect ending.

I'll be defeated by a cult I am creating but am not in.

Vote Guardian

Unless anyone else has any better ideas. I'm open to suggestions.

[cicero]

Actually

Unvote. Vote Dripping Goofball

Dripping Goofball is in the cult if I'm making it. If we kill anyone else in the cult she'll just rez them. We'll reach a point where we cant win.

We need to lynch her and then I'll vig someone else I rezzed if she comes up "prevented me from waking". If she doesn't, I'll rez her again.

[cicero]

Well then the game can become a happily ever after and we can no lynch until Doomsday as far as I'm concerned, because this is fucked up.

I thought for sure yesterday would end the game. The fact that it hasnt is bizarre to me. The only plausible suggestion is that I'm creating a cult, which makes sense for a death god I guess. What terrible irony it is for me.

But I'm not hearing any other bright ideas and I wouldnt trust them if I did. Because I'm not going to let such a cult win with my vote anyway even if it's a stalemate.

[cicero]

Um... Porochaz and Dripping Goofball were both post my resurrection.

Try again.

Even if we No lynch today I can still vig one of you tonight. Then we can lynch and vig the other two if the idea of me having a cult proves true.

So you better get me lynched today to avoid me vigging one of you. But you'll have to try harder than that.

[cicero]

It's a head scratcher.

Has Sparky posted his role PM already? I don't think so. Would you mind doing so Jester?

[cicero]

I'm the only one with a nightkill I think. I dont really see how other power roles come in to play for your plan.

[cicero]

I meant in terms of body count. I didnt notice you mentioning Sparky and it didnt occur to me that that might be his...um... "power".

Anyway, we can lynch a member of "DGB Cult" and I can vig a member of "Anubicero Cult" and sparky can use his power and we can see where we are tomorrow.

[cicero]

@Guardian - that is definitively

not

what is up.

[cicero]

Wake Up: Adel

[cicero]

I just re-read Streetflo and I think I was right long ago. I think he's scum and just is a godfather role. i think his corrupt vote power may be fake as well and was invented in collusion with Shaft.ed (who invented the Hamas Rabbit power). Streetflo could you please demonstrate a corrupt vote, even though I'm not sure it will change my mind.

Everyone else, could you use the drop down menu and have a look at Streetflo with your mafia scum hat on and tell me what you think in terms of scumtells.

[cicero]

unvote. Vote Streetflo

[cicero]

Thats because you dont have any corrupt votes.

[cicero]

@streetflo - What special occasion are you saving them for? This rings false. Why is this a "waste" of your vote? It's a very weak power unless you want to override the will of the town in endgame to give a surprise hammer to someone else. Do you have a plan for your votes?

Mod: Request vote count

Other stuff on Streetflo:

Way back when I wrote:

cicero wrote:

Vote Streetflo for flavor reasons. Autocrat sounds like a natural godfather role.

His response:

Have it your way, I'm sure a mod like Adel is good enough to prevent obvious role guessing like this.

But that hasnt really been the case so much. At least my role is very clearly tied to my powers. Speaker for the Dead is pretty clear as well. Others are more opaque but largely because they cant be not opaque.

In this case I suggest that it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Adel would put in place a role that appeared to be town once lynched. It is also possible that one of the original dead are a death miller, although I thought that would be me.

We win on the 8th day, and there are already four dead. Stands to reason there must be a resurrecting role somewhere.

Seems like the scum have set up info. I also know I am town.

I'm not sure who I'm leaning toward between Occult and cicero. Probably more toward cicero than Occult right now, though only by a little.

Distancing without damage.

I find it interesting that Guardian got a PM from Adel saying that he got revived when cicero revived him, but I received nothing. If I had not checked the game thread by chance, I might never have figured out I was revived.

I also receive a role PM telling me that I was alive and I was resurrected by Dripping Goofball. Something is fishy here.

How about we stop worrying about game-specific schematics and start hunting scum. Yesterday town was lynched within an hour by an extremely quick bandwagon. I'd rather just ignore mechanics for now and just HUNT SCUM.

This is a version of "this is not the droid you're looking for" and then he calls on us to hunt scum. But he doesnt proceed to hunt scum at all.

Please stop voting for shaft.ed... = =

Defends shaft.ed repeatedly. Quantumfruit is scummy to him though.

and finally, Streetflo is always too busy to play but is generally available to defend. He's watching and waiting. Trying to get the eight day. I would say more about Streetflo but he simply hasnt done much. And that's where gut come in to play. Sometimes you can just feel the scum. You feel it because of when the person chooses to post and on what subject. Streetflo's play is scumplay for this game. He isnt trying to solve the puzzle. He's going along with some puzzle plans as long as they dont involve him getting perma-lynched. He's watching, waiting and hoping like hell to stay alive until the eight day comes.

As I said, read his play yourself and see how it feels.

[cicero]

Guardian, you arent making sense. Earlier you wanted as many people dead as possible as quickly as possible. Such a plan

requires me to be alive

. If you want to test for a DGB cult you need to do it with someone else because I'm necessary for extra kills.

You have absolutely no reason to believe I'm scum except for a hail mary play regarding one possible game mechanic out of an infinite variety of them. And you ignored everything else I said about Streetflo. You are suggesting me not wanting to get lynched is scummy. But you dont want to get lynched and Streetflo doesnt want to get lynched. I'm sorry but I self voted once in this game and got lynched. I dont want to get lynched because:

* I know I am town
* lynching me will therefore push town closer to a loss since not only will it be a mislynch but it is a mislynch of the most powerful townside power role left in the game.
* It is ignominous to get lynched twice in a game as town.
* I am actively working and have continually worked to scumhunt in this game.
* I havent done anything scummy.

So Guardian, get this through your thick head:

YOU

ARE

WRONG

ABOUT

ME.

and possibly are scum.

Now enough is enough. Stop it.

[cicero]

Your gut is wrong and you aren't answering any of my substantive points at all. Against your plan or in my points against Streetflo.

Shaft.ed didnt do anything overtly scummy. Occult did. That's why I got him. And it was streetflo who backed him up.

[cicero]

Asserting the same thing over and over again and ignoring my points is beneath you, Guardian.

[cicero]

Ive rezzed two people since I came back. And you are just saying the same thing over again without responding to the points. Yet again. Honestly, you're just being weird.

[cicero]

Actually

Unvote. Vote Guardian

There's nothing scummy about my tone. My rolename and role quote havent changed. And you are completely ignoring what I say. Something is up with you.

[cicero]

I still have to respond to Guardian but my response is on my other computer where I've been trying to do a list of who died when and was rezzed by whom when so I have it all straight. In the meantime:

Mod: Plainly put - are there still scum of any variety alive in this game? Will you wake up if we kill all the players who "prevent you from waking" or is there some other odd mechanism we are supposed to puzzle out

@Sparky - Can you try some language to lead Adel into waking up? There seems to be something special about you for this game.

Possible Theories to explore:

1) Cicero as Anubis the serial killer - This one makes no sense. I've rezzed two people since coming back and only killed who I was directed to kill. In any event it is a huge mistake to lynch me today because it would result in town only being able to kill one player instead of two. I can effectively become a second lynch for town. If I absolutely must be lynched it should be a last ditch effort on the last day.

2) Anubis rezzed players as a cult - This seems very challenging balance wise but shouldnt be ruled out. Particularly since Guardian is intent on killing me today. That cult though would then be Porochaz, Dripping Goofball and Guardian, would it not? Why do I keep forgetting what Porochaz's power is. Porochaz what's your power again?

3) Dripping Goofball Cult - I would be in such a cult and I am not.

4) Dripping Goofball as scum resurrector - It is definitely weird to have two townside resurrectors. I'm assuming a third rezzer is dead but we cant exclude this possibility.

5) Bloated Autocrat as a scum godfather - This makes good sense. I wish I had been the one to resurrect Streetflo because then we could test two theories at once. But if you want to test the godfather theory and the DGB cult theory you can take out streetflo. Then I could vig Guardian. Vice versa works as well. Streetflo you know that if you use your last corrupt vote Guardian gets lynched, right? Actually with that in mind, for the moment,

unvote

until we can talk about it more.

Anything else? It isnt like Porochaz and DGB to just admit defeat.

Comments are welcome as are other scenarios.

Streetflo, I don't think you answered my question on what you were saving your corrupt votes for did you?

[cicero]

We did kill him once. The only reason to kill him is to test culting which you wouldnt be in favor of because you'd be in the same cult with him.

The way I figure it if there are scum left alive though there is at least a possibility of death millers and their opposite (is there a name for that?) coming in to play. This game seemed so easy at the front with two scum down right away. But we really dont know if we can trust that all the scum are really dead. I mean it seems quite the opposite. At the same time, we are still in a no nightkills situation which means if scum are still alive they don't need to kill and are just running out the clock, which is the odd element of this game.

So either we have a cult, or someone who popped up as "not preventing Adel from waking" actually is preventing Adel from waking and is a death anti-miller.

[cicero]

Everybody alive has been dead once, I believe.

Oh and Porochaz is a tracker. I forgot. Can you post your PM Porochaz?

[cicero]

Hope you are enjoying your hottest day. I live in Canada where it is still chilly out and we are beginning to suspect that summer will never come.

More importantly - it strikes me as interesting that you are a watcher and a tracker, which is a very powerful role combination that most people council against and that Guardian is also a tracker. I know Guardian's role is true because I was informed of it by role PM when he did it.

I choose to target Quantum Fruit in an attempt to kill him.

you snuff out his poor little existence.

Also, Xiao spends the night next to your prostate, watching your every move.

Hmm.

[cicero]

You should just retire Toaster Strudel. It's not like anyone doesnt know its you. It just complicates your life. lol :p

[cicero]

Guardian - go study for your exams! We'll wait for you.

[cicero]

I was just wildcatting for ideas. I was more thinking of you doing a

Wake Up

or

lead Adel from the dream

but that doesnt appear to be the way it works.

If you targetting someone does make you die it's possible that you should do it tonight, believe it or not. Adel has clarified that there's no special mechanic we just have to kill all the scum. So the best thing might be process of elimination and most kills. Depends on what we find out or due today though. I dont relish you dying and suddenly being outnumbered by a cult of my own creation either. :p

[cicero]

That's just her calling an end to the night phase.

[cicero]

Streetflo, it's a big advantage to Streetflo, regardless of alignment. A couple of thoughts. I still think you are scum and this is why:

[/quote]
Scum godfather? You can't be serious. First of all, I couldn't be a scum godfather, because when I was lynched I was listed as TOWN. You must mean a scum deathmiller, whatever the hell that is.[/quote]

You know as well as I do that I am referring to players who are scum but upon being lynched come up as town. So this quote above just reads as completely disingenuous. I am in fact talking about a scum death anti-miller. Which makes total sense in this game where death does not mean death as it does in most normal mafia games. I hear from people that you are a smart player so you scoffing and playing the "whatever THAT is" game just looks fake. You know full well that in a game that's based on resurrection, having the godfather be someone who upon being lynched comes up town isn't just plausible, at this point in the game it is LIKELY. And such a role fits very well with your bloated autocrat flavor.

Now, are the two corrupt votes overpowered? Not really. They are *corrupt*. Your power doesnt say townie in any way. You need to announce in the thread your intention to use the votes to your advantage. If anything it may be meant to provide a hint to the town that you arent what you seem to be.

[cicero]

duly noted and responded to.

[cicero]

I did already. but just in case.

unvote. vote streetflo

[cicero]

Porochaz - who did you target?
Jester - Why are you still alive?

[cicero]

Jester, hurry up.

[cicero]

Sent a PM to Adel this is her response which I just picked up.

What is my current win condition in Adel's Nightmare?

Am I currently preventing you from waking by being alive?

you win if I wake up.

You do not prevent me from waking.

[cicero]

I am indeed town. I've been mulling it over. At first I was thinking I would, if allowed to live, lynch Jester and kill a tracker. Now I think that might be sub-optimal. Now I think that it would be best to lynch a tracker, and if that tracker comes up town kill the other tracker. If he comes up scum, kill Sparky/Jester.

This is based on the idea that it's likely that one of the trackers is scum.

[cicero]

Im not sure that's right, for the reason I said already. But leaving that be. Do you think it is likely that you and Guardian are both Town? If so, why? If not. what makes you more likely to be town than Guardian?

[cicero]

that assumes that there's only one scum. And you are right. It could be dripping goofball's spawn. Which would be Sparky. So let's say we lynch Sparky and he did not prevent her from waking: then why should I vig Guardian and not you?

[cicero]

Assuming I'm not scum is a very safe assessment if you look at all the evidence in the game.

Assuming the town has two resurrectors and two watcher trackers is a somewhat less safe assumption, but this is Adel, and it isnt out of the realm of possibilities.
Since Streeflo flipped scum it is more than conceivable that the DGB resurrections come as cult makes sense. Maybe the most sense. We'll have to see what Jester says when he gets in. The flaw in my earlier idea of lynching a tracker seems clear upon reflection. We have evidence for a DGB created cult so we should likely pursue that. Hopefully it will end the game. (Hopefully it will be a town win and this isnt a case of Guardian and Porochaz both being scum)

If it doesn't, the only person left to take a night action is me and it's the last shot. The very last shot. Because if Adel doesn't wake as a result of that night action, she doesn't wake up at all.

Yet you guys arent even interested in looking at each other from what I can tell.

That's weird.

[cicero]

Wow, that's dumb. No. Your energies - both of you playing as if you are a townie - need me to vig the right person aka

not you

(whoever you is). Unless you both decide you want to lynch me, which, if you care about the town winning, you'll be awfully careful before doing.

[cicero]

Could you please post your result that doesnt kill you?

I killed DGB because if she was scum she could cause a last minute resurrection of scum to thwart a town win. It also let me test out whether I myself was creating a cult. I thought there was a likelyhood that she was town because shaft.ed targetted her, but couldnt rule out a weird setup. And because DGB is normally ridiculously hungry to scumhunt and push for info and basically act like a kinetic dervish as town, I found her gum chewing giving up routine to be a possible strong scum tell. In addition I convinced myself that since I had no evidence that one of the dead was a scum side resurrector I would feel really stupid if I left the scum resurrector alive. Bear in mind that normal play as scum would be different than in this game because in this game scum just need to survive until the 8th, now 9th day. So death gambits might be allowed and even make sense.

So again, could you post your PMs of night activity that confuse you so much please?

[cicero]

Chaz, explain further. Why is it strange?

[cicero]

jester, who'd you target?

I'm lurking to victory... if cicero's town and realizes I am...

I am town. But you keep unwittingly make me want to shoot you more. :p

[cicero]

As near as I can tell everyone, including one dead guy, figures Sparky is the last scum and is so sure of it that the two trackers with overlapping roles cant even be bothered arguing about each other. So I guess we'll kill Sparky and then if that doesn't work I'll just have to make a call. Yes?

[cicero]

Yeah. You might be right. I need to do a massive re-read. I'm just paranoid. But that's the kind of stuff that is sensible to remind me of. You did spend yesterday weirdly trying to get me lynched based on flavor while I banged the Streetflo drum. And I was long and lonely on the shaft.ed drum for a while too. So I just want to re-read and innoculate myself against you suddenly going "haha! Sucka!" at the last. My inclination for the moment is lynch Sparky and, if necessary vig Chaz. Just need to look everything over again to be sure. Chaz certainly isnt offering any words against you. His words seem to be only against Sparky. But on fairly flimsy grounds.

[cicero]

Yup. You'll note me not typing "vote: other player" at all yet.

[cicero]

Im more trying to rule you out than rule you in Guardian. Re-read isnt done yet. I'll have any questions on the weekend.

[cicero]

Guardian I'm on about page 15 of an all day re-read.

Porochaz was Night Killed by the scum. How do you account for this if Porochaz is scum?

I think we need to vote Sparky who was the resurrected by Dripping Goofball as was Streetflo. Either its a DGB cult or some of the players that started the game dead, like you and Sparky were said to Not Prevent Waking, when in fact those players were scum.

[cicero]

K. Re-read done.

Vote Jester.

[cicero]

Scum cant kill scum and there is no strong evidence of a third nightkill group.

You and Sparky both are in the category of people who started the game dead. Which is part of the balance to the resurrectors as near as I can figure. People who start the game dead and are marked don't prevent Adel from waking. But if lynched/killed later will show their true colors. Porochaz was nightkilled by scum in the middle of the game. Like Dripping Goofball was.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Sparky is the last scum. Your play is townie and 'Chaz has the nightkill thing goin' on.

[cicero]

Im not really so convinced that it's a resurrection switch. DGB resurrected me too after all, though I can't rule out a special dispensation whereby Im not eligible to be culted because I'm one of the resurrectors or some other such rule.

No, I'm more of the opinion that at least one of the people who started the game dead and listed as a good guy is really a bad guy. That's Jester and Guardian.

With Porochaz, he got nightkilled by the scum team. Someone wanting to vote him should really figure out what setup mechanics they are lynching him under.

Speaker for the Dead (Roffman) made inferences with respect to a third scum group. He referenced it as being based on something Aborted Elephant said. But I'm really not sure how much to trust such an oblique reference. Especially since it isnt even clear scum would have such knowledge to begin with. I'm open to setup suggestions on it. But I can say that Porochaz is one person that can be expressly ruled out of belonging to ONE of the scumgroups.

This is expressly different from Jester and Guardian who started the game dead. Because starting the game dead doesn't necessarily mean you were killed. You could have just started dead. And that certainly fits what happened to Sparky (the Jester). He didnt really get killed so much as he, in a separate post from everyone else, went out.

[cicero]

I read your N1 on Aborted Elephant. But when day one started you were dead. That is not an equivalent position to Porochaz who died mid-game at the hands of the scum.

We never have sorted out how there were so many kills on night zero and so few thereafter.

Porochaz, I highly doubt Adel is going to give alignment hints in her flavor text.

Here's all I know: I am not scum.

There is one guy whose super-power seems to be to light up everyone's night action. We dont know if he would illuminate nightkills but this seems like an odd power to give to a townie without telling him what it would do. It also seems that word on what Sparky does has been quite inconsistent. The early game inference was that he needed to be coy about it. Later, that he didn't know what it was, and along the way, that he would kill himself.

Then there are two trackers. One of these trackers can only track at the cost of being tracked himself.

The other tracker doesn't have that problem.

Town also has two resurrectors one of whom doubles as a vig and can fuck up the first resurrector.

And a guy that can still post when dead.

Neutral "speaker for the dead role" suggests two factions.

Aborted elephant inferred to speaker three factions.

Scum so far have had a corrupt voting "godfather".

Did Shaft.ed even have a real power? I forget. I know what he said Hamas rabbit did but it turned out he could really just nightkill.

Which tracker would be more likely to be scum? would/could both be town?

What other thoughts and inferences do you all draw from that sloppy mess of facts above. Am I missing anything?

Is Jester's illumination power a very powerful scumside tool that could only be used by scum if they managed to get Jester resurrected? A one time, all at once, power role illuminator?

[cicero]

yeah he did. The one he posted says that the nature of his role was not known to him.

[cicero]

We should avoid a No Lynch, pretty please and thanks muchly.

[cicero]

You havent given any reasons why you think Prozac is the last scum, I dont think. You certainly havent responded well to my nightkill in the middle of the game reasoning.

[cicero]

My results show with pretty good certainty that I did die at the hands of the scum.

How do you mean? Results?

[cicero]

No. I'm not scum. That was about a game called Spies. Alignment reversal is only one of the things to consider. The other is people who flip once as town and the next time as scum. What do you think the setup of this game is?

By the way, if I was scum, I think I'd be the last scum. I think I could go along with whatever choice the town made. I dont need to rock the boat or look hard at you or do much of anything really. Just ride it out. But instead I've done whatever I could do stimulate discussion and try to explore what the best move is if I DO need to vig anybody. So stick your suspicions in a sack, mister.

[cicero]

Porochaz - do you think there are two townside trackers?

[cicero]

Whatever, I think I'll vig Porochaz. At least Guardian is putting his back into it.

[cicero]

Im not mafia. Im town. Honest injun really really.

[cicero]

Also I'm kinda hoping Jester was the right choice in the first place...

[cicero]

Porochaz and Guardian still have never really looked at each other and made a case for why what the other did was scummy. Not once really. Makes me sad in the pants.

[cicero]

Tell me!!!

[cicero]

haha!

Yaaaay!

We even kinda figured out the mechanism (among many guesses!).

Go Town!!!