569 Adel's Nightmare -- Game Over!

[cicero]

We thought it would be fun, roffman. We were gonna make a day of it. Have a picnic on the island. Invite the Pittsburgh relatives. No?

[shaft.ed]

Guardian I think I may go along with your plan but I have to ask. Why do you feel it neccessary to have me killed and allow cicero to take out another townie tonight when your case against me now consists of "he is playing too well"?

[Guardian]

I've begun to rethink that myself. basically what I like is that my plan covers all the bases: we win if you're scum, if cicero is scum, if qf is scum, if roffman is scum, almost every scenario.

but cicero may be scumz enough to lynch him. :HM:.

[cicero]

Cicero is not scum. Stick to your plan.

OK so here are the major things I think cicero has done:
-Claims Miller Vig, later says Adel probably didn't add in a cop anyway to soften the fact that he claimed Miller.

No. There's nothing insidious here. Read the role pm. It talks about people hating me and misunderstanding me. How would you define that? And if you wonder if I amended the role PM, the whole thing has Adel's flow. Your predecessor tried to smear me by saying it had typos but it was a lie. There are no typos except for the H missing on eight, which is plainly done by Adel deliberately based on the bolded H at the end of eighth back in one of her first public posts.

-Prematurely quotes his role PM. This gave him huge town cred yesterday and still today as he had the proper wording for the archaic alignment. It seems highly likely Adel would have provided a safe claim for scum if role PM quoting was allowed. Town has no incentive to do this, for scum it is HUGE.

No. Occult was outing me and then Streetflo came along and proceeded from the assumption that I was the resurrector. I also had the "no one understands you" line, and at the time I understood the proper play if you thought you were a miller-type was to claim openly day one. Mafia discussion has since made me rethink this, by the way. But since people pretty much werent buying that I was anything but the resurrector plus miller issues I claimed. I also wanted to throw up the role PM in its entirety because this game - unlike every other game - allows for it. I amended not a single solitary word of it. The evidence for that is very simply that the role is very complex and involved and clearly comes from Adel's spinny head.

I also raised Guardian who is a very active and uncontrollable and useful townie with strong ideas about the game. I did not raise Sparky because his player has said precious little.

-Uses AE's baseless attacks on his alignment as a strategy for suspecting QF as scum.

This is very much a point in my favor. Aborted Elephant, who we know to be scum, threw mud at me. And Quantum Fruit's big scumtell is indeed mixing up the alignment issue. Other actions have been pro-town. But I see no reason why suspecting QF based on that is evidence that I'm scum.

-Jumped in on the Streeflo lynch without a single suspicion of him all of D1.

One can be a bit more cavalier to end the day when one knows one can ressurect Guardian as a certified pro-town player. I didnt make a strong case against Streetflo but I believe I said clearly on at least one occasion that Bloated Autocrat seemed like a good mafia godfather role.

-Revived Guardian over Rigel. Since Guardian is a fate sealer he can kill Guardian tonight and again remove him from the game, while taking out another townie so he's back to where he started from. Not only that but he gains a ton of town cred for having raised a townie and, in Guardian, a person he can count on to at the very least to vouche for him as town.

Guardian was raised because he's a pro-town player who will be active in the game and a good scumhunter who will consider all the ideas. Rigel didnt do much from beyond the grave. Historically I have a known bias in favor of active players that I exercised here. Im still not sure exactly how this fate sealer thing works but if Guardian wants to avoid that all he needs to do is not fate seal. More importantly you are actually using me killing Guardian tonight as a scumtell against me

before it happens

which is the biggest crock of shit Ive ever seen in the history of mafia. You have some balls.

-Has basically shut down the reviving roles until the town is in LyLo. This prevents DGB from res'ing townies which is crucial to cicero-scum in ever chipping away at the townie numbers in this game. Also clears him from having to further res townies and he can even attempt a frame up of DGB at some point by res'ing scum.

The no resurrecting was predicated on the idea that resurrectors might flip alignments. If people think that's not the case then there's no reason not to resurrect at will. But I thought it was very smart of DGB to bring it up and felt that there was no need to resurrect needlessly. Tonight if DGB resurrects Sparky as per Guardians plan that seems ok with me.

[shaft.ed]

I understood the proper play if you thought you were a miller-type was to claim openly day one.

Your conflating quoting your role PM with claiming Miller. You can and did claim miller without quoting Adel.

But since people pretty much werent buying that I was anything but the resurrector plus miller issues I claimed.

You had exactly zero votes on you at the time you posted your role PM and alignment. The post before yours was a vote for DGB from QF and four before that was a vote for Streeflo from DGB (ie suspicion was clearly elsewhere). Incredibly premature of you to quote your role PM if town aligned.

-Uses AE's baseless attacks on his alignment as a strategy for suspecting QF as scum.

This is very much a point in my favor. Aborted Elephant, who we know to be scum, threw mud at me. And Quantum Fruit's big scumtell is indeed mixing up the alignment issue. Other actions have been pro-town. But I see no reason why suspecting QF based on that is evidence that I'm scum.

You have heard of distancing right? It ought to be even more effective if one of the two engaged is confirmed scum. You seriously think AE's "attacks" could get any legs?

I didnt make a strong case against Streetflo but I believe I said clearly on at least one occasion that Bloated Autocrat seemed like a good mafia godfather role.

On one occasion you said he had scummy flavor. That's equivilent to not making any mention IMO.

More importantly you are actually using me killing Guardian tonight as a scumtell against me before it happens which is the biggest crock of shit Ive ever seen in the history of mafia. You have some balls.

I'm not using you killing Guardian as a scum tell. I'm pointing out that scum-cicero can gain town cred by res'ing Guardian and wipe out the effects of it the following night. You don't have to worry about him targeting you, you res'd him for crying out loud. So you get your kill back. Thus you res'ing Guardian is a scum tell. Nice appeal to emotion btw.

[cicero]

I understood the proper play if you thought you were a miller-type was to claim openly day one.

Your conflating quoting your role PM with claiming Miller. You can and did claim miller without quoting Adel.

So what? I posted the role pm soon thereafter to demonstrate why I "thought" about the miller possibility rather than state "I am a miller" definitely.

But since people pretty much werent buying that I was anything but the resurrector plus miller issues I claimed.

You had exactly zero votes on you at the time you posted your role PM and alignment. The post before yours was a vote for DGB from QF and four before that was a vote for Streeflo from DGB (ie suspicion was clearly elsewhere). Incredibly premature of you to quote your role PM if town aligned.

Nonsense. The point was to get it out first and with the least possible time to amend it to give it top visibility, credence, and to get people's input on what some of it meant. You are in a game where quoting your role PM is allowed so if I was going to claim, which was forced on me by your predecessor and to some extent Streetflo, then the sensible thing was to throw up the entire role PM. Especially since I did have a miller issue I was worried about. Are you trying to cite some precedent on when it is normally ok to throw up your role PM because the answer to that is never.

-Uses AE's baseless attacks on his alignment as a strategy for suspecting QF as scum.

This is very much a point in my favor. Aborted Elephant, who we know to be scum, threw mud at me. And Quantum Fruit's big scumtell is indeed mixing up the alignment issue. Other actions have been pro-town. But I see no reason why suspecting QF based on that is evidence that I'm scum.

You have heard of distancing right? It ought to be even more effective if one of the two engaged is confirmed scum. You seriously think AE's "attacks" could get any legs?

You've heard of WIFOM, right? Distancing is effective. Not incompetent.If his attacks would have absolutely no legs they arent really an attempt to distance but maybe an attempt to *look* like one is blatantly distancing in order to sully me.

I didnt make a strong case against Streetflo but I believe I said clearly on at least one occasion that Bloated Autocrat seemed like a good mafia godfather role.

On one occasion you said he had scummy flavor. That's equivilent to not making any mention IMO.

Your opinion is your opinion. Streetflo didnt do much good or bad that day. What he did do seemed mildly scummy and he had scummy flavor. My preferred lynch was Occult but that wasnt going to happen.

More importantly you are actually using me killing Guardian tonight as a scumtell against me before it happens which is the biggest crock of shit Ive ever seen in the history of mafia. You have some balls.

I'm not using you killing Guardian as a scum tell. I'm pointing out that scum-cicero can gain town cred by res'ing Guardian and wipe out the effects of it the following night. You don't have to worry about him targeting you, you res'd him for crying out loud. So you get your kill back. Thus you res'ing Guardian is a scum tell. Nice appeal to emotion btw.

Didnt you just accuse me of using the too townie fallacy? Isn't this the too townie fallacy? Everything I am doing is to get "cred". That's my whole argument about your big PbPs. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Shaft.ed. And that's what you are trying here.

[shaft.ed]

Nonsense. The point was to get it out first and with the least possible time to amend it to give it top visibility, credence, and to get people's input on what some of it meant. You are in a game where quoting your role PM is allowed so if I was going to claim, which was forced on me by your predecessor and to some extent Streetflo, then the sensible thing was to throw up the entire role PM. Especially since I did have a miller issue I was worried about. Are you trying to cite some precedent on when it is normally ok to throw up your role PM because the answer to that is never.

You could have easily done what you wanted without tossing out your alignment portion of the PM. Stop trying to conflate the issues.

You've heard of WIFOM, right? Distancing is effective. Not incompetent.If his attacks would have absolutely no legs they arent really an attempt to distance but maybe an attempt to *look* like one is blatantly distancing in order to sully me.

So which is it effective or incompetent? In your last post you said:

This is very much a point in my favor. Aborted Elephant, who we know to be scum, threw mud at me.

Now that I've called shenanigans AE's attacks hold no merrit so you can start the WIFOM train.

Your opinion is your opinion. Streetflo didnt do much good or bad that day. What he did do seemed mildly scummy and he had scummy flavor. My preferred lynch was Occult but that wasnt going to happen.

And your second choice was DGB who had some suspicions on her but would have involved you making waves. You took the path of least resistance.

Didnt you just accuse me of using the too townie fallacy? Isn't this the too townie fallacy? Everything I am doing is to get "cred". That's my whole argument about your big PbPs. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Shaft.ed. And that's what you are trying here.

This is not the too townie fallacy. You had town side choices of Rigel or Guardian. You chose the fate sealer who can easily cause the death's of two people the following night. Rigel was the more pro-town choice. Too townie fallacy would be if you res'd Rigel and I accused you of doing it to agree with the town. Very poor attempt at deflecting the issue here.

[Guardian]

Okay, yeah, from the above back and forth I definitely want both shaft.ed and cicero dead, with a side of QF.

QF's lurking ain't helping.

DGB, pretty please, resurrect Sparky, I have a firm conviction that it is important.

Tomorrow, if one of cicero, shaft.ed, QF, is not dead, lynch them. This is 100% true, and accurate, and should be done, and if I'm dead and you guys don't do it, I'll be quite annoyed with you.

If they are all dead, and Sparky is alive, and we haven't won, lynch roffman.

unvote

(if voting)

vote: QF

Let's do it.

[cicero]

Nonsense. The point was to get it out first and with the least possible time to amend it to give it top visibility, credence, and to get people's input on what some of it meant. You are in a game where quoting your role PM is allowed so if I was going to claim, which was forced on me by your predecessor and to some extent Streetflo, then the sensible thing was to throw up the entire role PM. Especially since I did have a miller issue I was worried about. Are you trying to cite some precedent on when it is normally ok to throw up your role PM because the answer to that is never.

You could have easily done what you wanted without tossing out your alignment portion of the PM. Stop trying to conflate the issues.

Really not following this train of thought. What is it you think a townie would have done?

You've heard of WIFOM, right? Distancing is effective. Not incompetent.If his attacks would have absolutely no legs they arent really an attempt to distance but maybe an attempt to *look* like one is blatantly distancing in order to sully me.

So which is it effective or incompetent? In your last post you said:

This is very much a point in my favor. Aborted Elephant, who we know to be scum, threw mud at me.

Now that I've called shenanigans AE's attacks hold no merrit so you can start the WIFOM train.

Your opinion is your opinion. Streetflo didnt do much good or bad that day. What he did do seemed mildly scummy and he had scummy flavor. My preferred lynch was Occult but that wasnt going to happen.

And your second choice was DGB who had some suspicions on her but would have involved you making waves. You took the path of least resistance.

And so far that's worked out well for the town.

Didnt you just accuse me of using the too townie fallacy? Isn't this the too townie fallacy? Everything I am doing is to get "cred". That's my whole argument about your big PbPs. You can't have your cake and eat it too, Shaft.ed. And that's what you are trying here.

This is not the too townie fallacy. You had town side choices of Rigel or Guardian. You chose the fate sealer who can easily cause the death's of two people the following night. Rigel was the more pro-town choice. Too townie fallacy would be if you res'd Rigel and I accused you of doing it to agree with the town. Very poor attempt at deflecting the issue here.

No. The whole argument rests on me trying to get "cred". If Guardian was the "wrong" choice I didnt gain cred, I risked it. If Guardian was the right choice that I did to get "cred" it's the too townie fallacy. But of course it isnt a fallacy. Sometimes scum do things for cred, like your PbPs. And also to set someone up. Like your PbPs.

You've made a decent argument for Guardian not using his fate sealing ability maybe but it simply had nothing to do with why I would resurrect him. It's a whole case based on a future action that hasnt occurred (and won't occur by the way, just in case anyone cares).

I give you Kudos shaft.ed but I really am not scum. It makes me curious about what your long term game plan is. When I die I will come up as townie. (You should know this because I have the alignment in my role PM and put it up first with it's odd wording which has since been confirmed by several others) so the question is - what do scum need to do to win? Or can they even. Let's say Shaft.ed is right. I'm the last scum. What's my play tonight? He'll vig me. What am I supposed to do, turn around and kill DGB? I'm already dead and the game is over. Is there another scum alive in your scenario, shaft.ed, that I seem to want to protect? If so, who? What's my great plan to win this game as the last scum when I fully expected to be nightkilled last night and am perfectly ok with being nightkilled tonight if we can make sure the plan has no holes in it? I'd really like to know.

[shaft.ed]

Really not following this train of thought. What is it you think a townie would have done?

A townie would have posted the role info without the alignment. If it really has the super confirmation power you imply it should have been used as a test lynch D1. For example a bandwagon reaches L-1. Bandwagoner says post your alignment PM. Said person then quotes it. You then discuss whether or not Adel would have allowed scum to have such info. You bypassed this and posted it with zero votes on you.

And so far that's worked out well for the town.

DGB's role was not known yesterday, don't be cute.

No. The whole argument rests on me trying to get "cred". If Guardian was the "wrong" choice I didnt gain cred, I risked it. If Guardian was the right choice that I did to get "cred" it's the too townie fallacy. But of course it isnt a fallacy. Sometimes scum do things for cred, like your PbPs. And also to set someone up. Like your PbPs.

This is a false argument. You stated yesterady:

As for my alignment, it'll be patently obvious by who I choose to raise and how I choose to play. I'm all for waking Adel up and will play that way. The people I resurrect will also want to wake Adel up.

So you prefaced your alignment with res'ing someone who was pro-town. The advantage to scum in res'ing Guardian is not clearly obvious, and I only picked up on it during my detailed PbP.

(You should know this because I have the alignment in my role PM and put it up first with it's odd wording which has since been confirmed by several others)

This is what the first point is all about.

Is there another scum alive in your scenario, shaft.ed, that I seem to want to protect?

I'm not sure about that. I think it is more likely a SK exists and you are the last scum.

when I fully expected to be nightkilled last night and am perfectly ok with being nightkilled tonight

More appeals to emotion.

[cicero]

Really not following this train of thought. What is it you think a townie would have done?

A townie would have posted the role info without the alignment. If it really has the super confirmation power you imply it should have been used as a test lynch D1. For example a bandwagon reaches L-1. Bandwagoner says post your alignment PM. Said person then quotes it. You then discuss whether or not Adel would have allowed scum to have such info. You bypassed this and posted it with zero votes on you.

And yet if you look, Quantumfruit's role pm looks exactly like someone who might want to fit the info in that role pm.

And so far that's worked out well for the town.

DGB's role was not known yesterday, don't be cute.

I stand by the choice. It was good for town. Guardian's been great so far. We still havent heard much from Sparky

No. The whole argument rests on me trying to get "cred". If Guardian was the "wrong" choice I didnt gain cred, I risked it. If Guardian was the right choice that I did to get "cred" it's the too townie fallacy. But of course it isnt a fallacy. Sometimes scum do things for cred, like your PbPs. And also to set someone up. Like your PbPs.

This is a false argument. You stated yesterady:

As for my alignment, it'll be patently obvious by who I choose to raise and how I choose to play. I'm all for waking Adel up and will play that way. The people I resurrect will also want to wake Adel up.

So you prefaced your alignment with res'ing someone who was pro-town. The advantage to scum in res'ing Guardian is not clearly obvious, and I only picked up on it during my detailed PbP.

I'm glad you thought of it, but I didnt and there's no evidence that I did either.

(You should know this because I have the alignment in my role PM and put it up first with it's odd wording which has since been confirmed by several others)

This is what the first point is all about.

That's fine - it may be that you think it was a bone ass move as a townie but I still knew the townie wording. I'm still townie. Unless you think Adel gave the scum fairly elaborate safe claims including knowledge of that wording, in which case it isnt useful at all to catch scum.

Is there another scum alive in your scenario, shaft.ed, that I seem to want to protect?

I'm not sure about that. I think it is more likely a SK exists and you are the last scum.

If an SK exists, Shaft.ed it is you. Why would I want to protect the SK? Why would I be quite content to be NKed as last scum? The simple fact is that you are afraid of being vigged by me so you need me to get lynched. It's patently obvious.

when I fully expected to be nightkilled last night and am perfectly ok with being nightkilled tonight

More appeals to emotion.

Not an appeal to emotion. A simple articulation that the proper play today is not me. I will attempt to vig you tonight. Count on it.

The key point in that last post was - why am I doing what I'm doing if I'm scum that needs to survive. I'm perfectly happy not lynching you and vigging you instead even if it means my death. Can you say the same?

[shaft.ed]

The key point in that last post was - why am I doing what I'm doing if I'm scum that needs to survive. I'm perfectly happy not lynching you and vigging you instead even if it means my death. Can you say the same?

I've already said I'd agree with the plan. I just find it ridiculous that I'm being offered up when the case against me is "I'm playing too well."

[cicero]

Then we have no quarrel.

Unvote. Vote Quantumfruit

The case against you from my point of view has a great deal to do with your predecessor and process of elimination. The fact that you did three PbPs just doesnt dissuade me from my opinion that you're scum in this game.

[shaft.ed]

Then we have no quarrel.

Unvote. Vote Quantumfruit

The case against you from my point of view has a great deal to do with your predecessor and process of elimination. The fact that you did three PbPs just doesnt dissuade me from my opinion that you're scum in this game.

Please point me to the argument against Occult.

[cicero]

If you use the dropdown menu you'll find what I have to say about your predecessor in 17, 19, 20, 21, 23, 24.

Please point me to your vote for Quantumfruit.

[DrippingGoofball]

I want to lynch cicero. Period. I'm with shafted on this one.

[Guardian]

DGB, if we lynch cicero, will you resurrect Sparky, and support lynching my choice of shaft.ed/QF tomorrow?

Under those conditions I would *consider* supporting a cicero lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

I think Sparky is a logical choice for the resurrect.

[Adel]

I dont know if Adel will answer this but:

Mod: Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

you are correct, I won't.

[Guardian]

We have 1 week.

[Adel]

˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚
the dead still include: Aborted Elephant (Ghostwriter), Sparky (Rigel), Cold Fairy (ChaosOmega), Dark Child (Porochaz)


˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚

votecount as of post 494

with 7 alive, 4 will lynch before deadline

˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚˚

¬QuantumFruit

: 3 : QuantumFruit, Guardian, Cicero

cicero

: 2 : Shaft.ed, DrippingGoofBall

No Lynch

:

none

not voting

: 4 : roffman, Streeflo,


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Day 2 deadline is April 13th

[cicero]

I want to lynch cicero. Period. I'm with shafted on this one.

You are wrong so often you should get some kind of medal.

[roffman]

i'm all for the cicero lynch, and the sparky resurrect seems good to me. I'm just wondering, does anyone know what the corrupted vote does?

vote cicero

[cicero]

The worst part is I cant even take this game off my watchlist. I might get resurrected. :p

Shaft.ed is playing you guys.

[Guardian]

Streeflo, vote QF. u know im rite.

Know why? Cuz why the hell does roffman care who's lynched? I think he doesnt like the prospect of being owned tomorrow.

Plus, qf cud be scum. plus lots of other shite. QF, even if u read this, dont vote cicero. cicero vig'ing shaft.ed tonight is better than u living.

someone plz hammer QF. it is the way of righteousness.