Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Fro99er]

I really don't think science is a good idea. Scum will just get day chat and the neighborizer only lasts the following day and night. I guess you could re-neighborizer the person, but it doesn't allow us the ability to neighborizer multiple town at once, so it's far weaker than scum day chat. That means scum can plan behind the scenes way easier while town have to plan mostly out in the open. Hell, scum could even grab the neighborizer role and then we'd be really fucked with secretive day planning.

And arts is just fucking stupid

VOTE: none

[Fro99er]

btw can't us townies plan for shit too.
Ywall make it seem like scum can also plan for stuff.
Also
VOTE: Science
Unless Akane changes her mind.

-Nebby

The difference is we plan in public. Scum can plan in private. Advantage scum.

[Fro99er]

Strongly disagreed, science is responsible for great advances to humanity and arts brings joy to our lives.

go trump

[Fro99er]

I'm a resolution doublevoter

VOTE: none
VOTE: none

[Fro99er]

I'm a resolution doublevoter

VOTE: none
VOTE: none

Wtf? Why would you put it at L-1 without everyone chiming in?

~~Math

Sis sign them posts <3

lol

[Fro99er]

When did I put it at L-1? I was already voting none. 8 + 1 = 9. 11-9 = L-2. Basic fucking math. IF you ca'nt do math you shouldn't be voting science.

You people...

[Fro99er]

No wonder powers so far have been 1-shot actions either so I also don't feel like playing around that either. (Also if we see a blocked cop whoever takes a roleblocker power would obviously be conf scum.)

Also I am assuming whoever takes the treestump power is scum and will ignore them.

But are they 1-shot?

Some of the powers say "each night"

[Fro99er]

(Also if we see a blocked cop whoever takes a roleblocker power would obviously be conf scum.)

But how will we know who took a roleblocker?

[Fro99er]

(Also if we see a blocked cop whoever takes a roleblocker power would obviously be conf scum.)

But how will we know who took a roleblocker?

Whoever doesn't claim a power.

That could still leave us a pool of several people.

[Fro99er]

Wouldn't you assume a mass claim in inevitable?

maybe

I can see town reasons for keeping certain powers hidden. Like not telling someone you and someone else are in a neighborhood. Especially if you can confirm each other with another power. Then you act as like masons.

[Fro99er]

Some reads

Town:
Spiff, TitusMath, Alihydra, MariaGerry, LUV

Scum:
Leon

[Fro99er]

Scum will only have daychat if one of their team decides to build the wonder that allows it.

Why wouldn't they? It seems quite optimal for scum to pick daychat in a game where they would want to coordinate picking powers as well as manipulate town out of picking those powers during a day phase. The good thing is, scum won't have daychat on day 1.

That person then has to survive, which makes them easier to spot

How? Just because the player pool is narrowed from kills and claims? I guess, but I'm not sure that's a reason *for* picking science.

Wait. Since scum don't have daychat today it doesn't really let them coordinate D1 wonders even with knowledge of D2 wonders. On D2 they can coordinate based off D2 and D3, but the player pool will be much smaller so the pool will be much narrower for them to pick scum utility and evade a massclaim.

That makes me less worried about the daytalk issue.

As an added bonus, whenever the mid game mass claim arrives, that person has to lie.

And yeah, this is a good point. That adds to that.

pedit: so many pedits

UNVOTE:
VOTE: science

[Fro99er]

People getting on drixx for declaring stump intent is

[Fro99er]

People getting on drixx for declaring stump intent is

It's something so easy to jump on, and shows they know nothing about drixx. Just an easy way to throw shade.

[Fro99er]

allready responded to this, but the entire use of treestump is to get nightkilled so that we know its coming from town.

And the alternative is drixx doesn't get killed and lives to end game, which is also good if drixx is town.

[Fro99er]

UNVOTE:

[Fro99er]

So, yeah. Vecna is town.

pedit: dgaf what you think.

[Fro99er]

I'm staying in the bag and will talk to Akane about the subject of Science.
UNVOTE:
-Nebby

that's a lame unvote

[Fro99er]

P-edit: If you respond to me with that kind of bullshit again Vecna I'll just ignore you all game. You don't know me and you're pissing up the wrong rope.

he really didn't respond with bullshit though.

[Fro99er]

What kind of special are you? Are you seriously trying to argue that any scum team would pass on a day chat facilitator just on the HOPE that something better might be attained later in the game

That's not what he said at all.

He said if we choose science, scum will be able to see even more options. Like possibly twice as many, and then pass up day chat to coordinate at night because now they have two days worth of powers to coordinate.

He never said they were passing on day chat to hope something else later was better.

[Fro99er]

P-edit: If you respond to me with that kind of bullshit again Vecna I'll just ignore you all game. You don't know me and you're pissing up the wrong rope.

he really didn't respond with bullshit though.

No ... I mean embedding his responses in my quote so that it's absurdly difficult to see them and respond to them on the post a reply screen. Making the game harder on someone else is a dick move, and I'll just ignore any fucker who does that to me. I ain't got time for that shit.

gotcha

Vecna -- just quote and post above or below the quote, don't post your thoughts inside someone else's quote.

[Fro99er]

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Fucking hydra slips.

If anyone has a way of remembering to not hydra slip, please tell me

[Fro99er]

But I think we both know thats not what he was alluding to in his post.

there is really no need to continue the needling.

drop it.

[Fro99er]

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing?

No, but we could do something close.

Like frog chooses from {X, Y}, drixx chooses from {Y, Z}, titus chooses from {Z, X}

And if we had enough coverage of this it would at least not let scum know who chose what exactly, and probably lets us get close to choosing them all, if not actually choosing them all with mid-teens town players.

[Fro99er]

You decision whether to pick or wait should mainly be determined by how much something fits your personal style, and how likely you think it is that youre getting nightkilled soon (if it can still be made usefull at least).

I sort of agree, but what if we said "I'll choose from {X, Y}" instead of just the one that fit our playstyle. If we just let everyone pick their favorite power, then a smart scum who knows the playstyle of some town members could probably make educated guesses as to who picked what.

But the option version probably guarantee us close to complete coverage of the wonders from town (obviously barring what scum themselves does with PMing the mod), while letting most of us pick two closest options to their playstyle (a player or two might have to sacrifice to ensure full coverage), and making sure scum don't know who is choosing what.

[Fro99er]

Wonders are only available on their day. Scum can't pass up daychat today and take it tomorrow after discussing tonight.

I know. I never said that.

[Fro99er]

Scum killing the person in the middle confirms the sides though.

There is no middle. It's a loop. And if we have 6 town players it's

2x {X, Y}
2x {X, Z}
2x {Y, Z}

Type stuff. One scum kill doesn't confirm anything

[Fro99er]

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing?

No, but we could do something close.

Like frog chooses from {X, Y}, drixx chooses from {Y, Z}, titus chooses from {Z, X}

And if we had enough coverage of this it would at least not let scum know who chose what exactly, and probably lets us get close to choosing them all, if not actually choosing them all with mid-teens town players.

Not a fan of this, but I'll sleep on this.

Frogger, what are your reads?

Some reads

Town:
Spiff, TitusMath, Alihydra, MariaGerry, LUV

Scum:
Leon

Vecna and Drixx I need to place.

[Fro99er]

This is a start. It needs more work

Definitely.

Point is we can probably find a way to get most coverage of the wonders, while keeping scum guessing.

[Fro99er]

I don't feel well with MG at town or LUV there yet. Leon also doesn't feel that scummy to me.Care to elaborate?~Titus

LUV -- I thought these two posts were towny

Sciences just leads to distractions. Gives scum an excuse to look like they're doing something.

There is way too much distrust early on for all the power we could gain to even match the fact that scum are informed.

MariaGerry (Sondam) and Leon I've associated as one of the two being scum, or tvt. That wasn't a bus between them. But I think leon is probably scum because his opening post looked really tryhard, but not well thought out, and then quotes like this

Vecna was the first one to bring up five players, why are you only focusing on me?

"but they did it too" type stuff always give me scumvibes. Also thought 143 wasn't so great a retort to Sondam. Like, "oh I found a contradiction". Here's a fun fact. Town contradict themselves all the time. And Sondam's posts actually looked like a progression to me instead of a contradiction.

[Fro99er]

We chose in the group of {Mausoleum, Hanging gardens} so no one else pick from that grouping, okay?

- Akane

Well with ~15 town players and only 5 town available wonders, we can almost triple up. Whoever doesn't get something tonight can still get powers on other days. But some variant of my strategy probably helps us nearly guarantee every role has at least one town PM to the mod.

[Fro99er]

I think we we can do some of the {X, Y} type stuff (we can figure out an exact system for it), which keeps scum guessing while giving ourselves a chance at powers that best match our play abilities, then I'm pretty happy with voting science

VOTE: science

[Fro99er]

I think we we can do some of the {X, Y} type stuff (we can figure out an exact system for it), which keeps scum guessing while giving ourselves a chance at powers that best match our play abilities, then I'm pretty happy with voting science

VOTE: science

[Fro99er]

Apparently I'm also a doubleposting doublevoter

[Fro99er]

Frog, we don't have enough time to figure out a system. Get back on Nons.

What is this BS? We have 7 real life days plus another 14 real life days while we're in lynch phase.

[Fro99er]

Is no one gonna point out that the {X, Y} thing is a terrible plan that still gives scum a 50% chance of hitting the PR they want to kill, and a chance to try again for 100% the next night?

not if there are THREE PEOPLE all choosing {X, Y}

then it's one in six.

Better yet, if we did {X, Y, Z} type stuff, then it's one in nine.

[Fro99er]

BS, that's clearly an attempt to sort DEO, not a deflection.

Except it's not BS if that's how I read it.

If it's an attempt to read titus, then fine.

[Fro99er]

BS, that's clearly an attempt to sort DEO, not a deflection.

Except it's not BS if that's how I read it.

If it's an attempt to read titus, then fine.

I said something similar earlier, did it ping you?

Yes, it did. When titus asked why you're defending Vecna.

I forgot about it. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Fro99er]

Yes, it did. When titus asked why you're defending Vecna.

I forgot about it. Thanks for bringing it up.

Post is slimy like a frog

except this is my obvtown game, so yeah.

[Fro99er]

Is no one gonna point out that the {X, Y} thing is a terrible plan that still gives scum a 50% chance of hitting the PR they want to kill, and a chance to try again for 100% the next night?

Stop announcing PRs. And you also can't select two and say 'no one else take them'. That guarantees one won't get picked. And tells the scum you're either a doctor or a neighbourizer. They'll nightkill EITHER.
Just pick with your playstyle and if you miss out, try again the next day with higher priority for you.

I'm gonna townread you just for this

I'm gonna scumread you just for this

[Fro99er]

except this is my obvtown game, so yeah.

Dude

Fresh

[Fro99er]

Frog: How or where do you get the notion of responding with "this is my obvtown game". Is it like... am I supposed to know your meta so you're self-metaing at me?

SPIFFEH

[Fro99er]

Frog: How or where do you get the notion of responding with "this is my obvtown game". Is it like... am I supposed to know your meta so you're self-metaing at me?

SPIFFEH

What does this MEAN

That's for me to know and you to find out post game.

[Fro99er]

Bruh we're playing a game

now

that I'd like to win, so how about either answering my questions or acknowledging that you are a slimy slimy frog

It's really not something I'm going to answer now.

A few people probably know why.

[Fro99er]

Bruh we're playing a game

now

that I'd like to win, so how about either answering my questions or acknowledging that you are a slimy slimy frog

It's really not something I'm going to answer now.

A few people probably know why.

And to be 100% clear to the mod it has nothing to do with ongoing games or meta from ongoing games. I'm not going to break any mod or site rules ever.

[Fro99er]

Frog: Why bring up self-meta at all then? To someone you don't know?

You'll find out post game

[Fro99er]

Which is why I'm against the plan Frogger proposed.

Once again.

To be clear. The proposed plan was something to answer A+N's question about can we ensure town at least has 1 pm to the mod for every ability.

I was just thinking out loud.

[Fro99er]

Frog: Why bring up self-meta at all then? To someone you don't know?

You'll find out post game

I both literally and figuratively hate you despite hate being an emotion and as such cannot be qualified with either

I'm sorry you are filled with hate for me.

Except not really.

[Fro99er]

Scum w/ Vecna likely found.

Are you kidding me?

I was explain Vecna's POV. I didn't support it. In fact, I voted the other way and said I don't think Vecna's explanation is enough to make me want none.

[Fro99er]

Actually Frog I'm curious as to why you wrote me off as town so quickly?

I thought you might be. And this paranoia is even more reason you're town.

You just seem to really really believe it's not good for scum to do the science thing. Like you

really

don't want scum to have any sort of advantage. Your reply to Leon's crappy plan was just the start. Being that strongly against a plan that obviously helps scum and then your conviction the rest of the resolution phase show how against scum you are.

[Fro99er]

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Fucking hydra slips.

If anyone has a way of remembering to not hydra slip, please tell me

But I think we both know thats not what he was alluding to in his post.

there is really no need to continue the needling.

drop it.

Ooooh nice scumslips. For the wins of town. Thanks. Please keep doing this.

~~Math

LOL that is not a scumslip. I don't even see how you think that can be a scumslip.

[Fro99er]

Frog: How or where do you get the notion of responding with "this is my obvtown game". Is it like... am I supposed to know your meta so you're self-metaing at me?

SPIFFEH

I don't know if you're asking me to corroborate that this is your town meta

But I don't see anything that you've done so far that couldn't come from scum!Frog

I'm not asking you to corroborate it's my town meta.

I guess it's been too long...look at what Yuri did.

[Fro99er]

The main thing that gives me pause about Yuri!scum is Maxous.

At least of those two is definitely scum.

[Fro99er]

Is no one gonna point out that the {X, Y} thing is a terrible plan that still gives scum a 50% chance of hitting the PR they want to kill, and a chance to try again for 100% the next night?

Stop announcing PRs. And you also can't select two and say 'no one else take them'. That guarantees one won't get picked. And tells the scum you're either a doctor or a neighbourizer. They'll nightkill EITHER.
Just pick with your playstyle and if you miss out, try again the next day with higher priority for you.

I'm gonna townread you just for this

Why are you townreading me for my common-sense mechanics post?

Is no one gonna point out that the {X, Y} thing is a terrible plan that still gives scum a 50% chance of hitting the PR they want to kill, and a chance to try again for 100% the next night?

Stop announcing PRs. And you also can't select two and say 'no one else take them'. That guarantees one won't get picked. And tells the scum you're either a doctor or a neighbourizer. They'll nightkill EITHER.
Just pick with your playstyle and if you miss out, try again the next day with higher priority for you.

I'm gonna townread you just for this

I'm gonna scumread you just for this

@LUV - Because Yuri and I thought that post by Maxous was gross at the exact same time. It was a really shallow read.

[Fro99er]

I want math to explain how that is a scumslip.
-Nebby

Why would Town have a "need" of having things only go to a certain point?

Why would Town "drop it" there?

Why would if Town coaching be phrased like that?

I do not see two or one townies do this.

This is scum trying to control the situation because the "need" has been met.
~~Math

No.

This is me trying to stop a pissing war between drixx and Vecna.

I've seen drixx nearly get kicked out of games for pissing wars and I'm fucking sick of pissing war games. Sick of it. It's why I siteflaked the first time a year ago.

[Fro99er]

Titus, get mathblade in order.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Maxous

Yuri did my scumtell thing, but my gut tells me it's wrong this time because of Maxous.

[Fro99er]

I'm not asking you to corroborate it's my town meta.

I guess it's been too long...look at what Yuri did.

Still don't know what you're talking about

You've played with me in two games where I caught four scum for the same tell. I guess you don't remember...it's been a year since I played.

[Fro99er]

Oh now I see

I don't really think that's a scum tell. I self meta a lot and town have called me out on it before.

But I've only had scum call me out on it every time except once, and we're over double digits now.

When I do it as scum, I never get called out on it (for obvious reasons).

[Fro99er]

I guess I don't need to wait for post-game to tell Yuri now.

[Fro99er]

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

Mother fucker do you want me to put my vote back on you cause it wasn't fucking fake
~Maria

You can after you sheep me on Leon

Works for me
VOTE: Leon

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT?

-Nebby

Cookie monster picture.

[Fro99er]

plausible i suppose. i don't want to tunnel here.

so self-aware

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Arts

Please do not take 50 pages to decide this

Low power game = better for scum

VOTE: none
Let's just go.
Arts isn't gonna win.
Science is not being picked because some of you have already proven you're gonna spend 20 pages a day with over-complicated plans if we do.

I want to start wagoning 2 people anyway

Maxous votes arts and then says "lower power game = better for scum". Then changes at the end to vote for lower power.

Max -- did you just not care actually? Why didn't you press this arts vote harder if you wanted more power to supposedly help town more? You showed no conviction going for arts as helping town, and you just gave up on it for something that, in your opinion, helps scum more (fewer powers).

[Fro99er]

tbh I forgot Drixx was in this game.
Why do you not like Vecna?

-Nebby

He seems intent on starting a fight that would do nothing to help the game state, and his push at the start was a little . He's not lock scum for me, like Math thinks. Yet, if a wagon happened there, I'd vote it.

~Titus

I'm more sure on Uzi!town than Vecna!town.

Vecna basically meta cleared Uzi, which really only happens if they are scum together, town together, or if Vecna is scum and Uzi is town. I don't see a world in which Vecna is town legitimately meta clearing Uzi, and Uzi is pulling off this amazing scum game fooling Vecna.

So 2 of the 3 scenarios paint Uzi town, 1 of the 3 paint Vecna town. But of course town is more likely in general. So probabilistically I really like Uzi for town. Plus some of the posts I quoted from Uzi scream town to me, so it's not just a probability-based argument.

[Fro99er]

Btw reminder not to give any indication of whether you're going for a role today and which role you'd choose.

And when the roles are distributed, don't give any indication of whether you got one or not.

The less scum know about the location of the power roles, the less successful they'll be at neutralizing them.

^ forced.

I mean, that's obvious with any role in any mafia game. Why did you feel the need to point this out?

Was this Gerry head?

PEdit: yes

Ugh I don't feel so good about this slot anymore

[Fro99er]

I'm more sure on Uzi!town than Vecna!town.

Vecna basically meta cleared Uzi, which really only happens if they are scum together, town together, or if Vecna is scum and Uzi is town. I don't see a world in which Vecna is town legitimately meta clearing Uzi, and Uzi is pulling off this amazing scum game fooling Vecna.

So 2 of the 3 scenarios paint Uzi town, 1 of the 3 paint Vecna town. But of course town is more likely in general. So probabilistically I really like Uzi for town. Plus some of the posts I quoted from Uzi scream town to me, so it's not just a probability-based argument.

And please explain to me what is wrong with this

[Fro99er]

Nero's recent posts look better.

VOTE: Maxous

Welcome to the wagon

[Fro99er]

Spif should prob talk about why he SOLELY scum reading me for that but ignoring Max.

Max's posts didn't really ping me like yours did.

I got the vibe he was just uninterested with the Resolution phase which isn't alignment indicative. I do believe his push on me is crap.

Are you scum reading him?

Didn't really ping you, eh?

So why are you now voting him, with me, despite you being suspicious of me?

And you conveniently flipped your read of Nero to town especially when Nero is scum reading Max to vote that Maximus wagon despite Max not really pinging you.

[Fro99er]

Spif should prob talk about why he SOLELY scum reading me for that but ignoring Max.

Max's posts didn't really ping me like yours did.

I got the vibe he was just uninterested with the Resolution phase which isn't alignment indicative. I do believe his push on me is crap.

Are you scum reading him?

Didn't really ping you, eh?

So why are you now voting him, with me, despite you being suspicious of me?

And you conveniently flipped your read of Nero to town especially when Nero is scum reading Max to vote that Maximus wagon despite Max not really pinging you.

Deep. I missed the "push on me is crap part"

Welp.

Still think it's weird timing to townread Nero then hop on Max with me despite being suspicious of Nero until just now (who was suspicious of Max) and suspicious of me.

[Fro99er]

whatever dude. That was awfully convenient timing to flip your read of Nero right after you realized Nero is scumreading Max

Felt like a way for you to justify your vote of Max

PEdit: @spiffeh

[Fro99er]

I'm more sure on Uzi!town than Vecna!town.

Vecna basically meta cleared Uzi, which really only happens if they are scum together, town together, or if Vecna is scum and Uzi is town. I don't see a world in which Vecna is town legitimately meta clearing Uzi, and Uzi is pulling off this amazing scum game fooling Vecna.

So 2 of the 3 scenarios paint Uzi town, 1 of the 3 paint Vecna town. But of course town is more likely in general. So probabilistically I really like Uzi for town. Plus some of the posts I quoted from Uzi scream town to me, so it's not just a probability-based argument.

And please explain to me what is wrong with this

I think it's an unreliable way to get a read. Taking someone's word on someone else's meta isn't something I'm willing to do.

I know you said you liked some of Uzi's posts too but this reasoning doesn't make sense to me coming from you.

Why?

I'm a math guy. I use probabilities. The fourth option that Vecna is town and Uzi is scum is a very low probability option.

You KNOW meta is a strong part of my play.

Numbers are too. And as I said, I have a pretty strong town read of Uzi independent from that.

This is just a supplement to that.

If you think this is the crux of my argument then I can't help you.

[Fro99er]

My Max read has nothing to do with what Nero thought of him lol

You can go back to my response to Max's initial push to see that I obviously wasn't content with what he had to say.

Ok. If I see something's i think is off I'm going to comment on it. The timing of the flip on Nero seemed weird/perfect/convenient.

It's something I should at least press you about.

[Fro99er]

Why don't you like the Max wagon Uzi?

He's essentially being voted for being forced to compromise. The reality is that no one was seriously going to go through with Sciences or even Arts once The DEO gave their reasoning.

That is far from the only reason

[Fro99er]

What are the others? The case he had on Spi?

just call him spiff or spiffy or spiffeh, please.

Yes. And also his terrible vote on Yuri. Like I said. i'm pretty sure either Max or Yuri is scum. Just not sure which, but I think Max makes more sense to me.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Yuri

[Fro99er]

to clear up a point, my problem wasn't with the self-meta (everybody does it it's not scummy inherently) but with bringing up self-meta to a player you have never played with, in response to me calling a post scummy. Doesn't make sense

but I specifically use it at people who aren't familiar with it because I want to see who jumps on it. It's always something so easy to jump on for scum who aren't aware I do that.

[Fro99er]

Please don't call me Yuki. And yes

Well, I'm afraid you have me at a personal meta disadvantage. I'm aware my laser focus can sometimes be detrimental. I'm working on that, but as you can tell, I'm no saint nor do I ever pretend to be. I still happen to think you're scum though. Math agrees.

Sorry for the misname Yuri.

Np, np. Thought you were doing it on purpose, is all.

So, with Sondam it really looks like a miscommunication easier from here. If you say something in a 'snarky' way that looks like an accusation, that's not opening up a dialogue to get Sondam to answer about their read. And by the time you started pressuring them for a read, you'd made that contradiction that looked really bad (tbh it still looks bad

but I can buy you just saying something that came out strange, since the rest from you guys looks town), so ofc they'd be more concerned with that. If the timing on those is wrong somewhere, lemme know.

As for your scumread, I'm not scum, so what are we gonna do to fix that? And, what's your read on Maxous? You've said you're not scumreading the wagon, though Math is, but what's your read on Maxous themself?
Also Fro99er and Uzi.

The bolded really looks like Yuri wants to placate Titus immediately after saying the contradiction was bad. Like as to not ruffle feathers.

[Fro99er]

to clear up a point, my problem wasn't with the self-meta (everybody does it it's not scummy inherently) but with bringing up self-meta to a player you have never played with, in response to me calling a post scummy. Doesn't make sense

but I specifically use it at people who aren't familiar with it because I want to see who jumps on it. It's always something so easy to jump on for scum who aren't aware I do that.

It's also completely baffling to call a post of yours scummy and be told you're being your obvtown self when I don't know you. The response doesn't make any sense and just looks like 'i'm town, how could you not see it'. Like do you not get that part??

Baffling you is exactly why I do it. To see how people who aren't familiar with me doing that react.

[Fro99er]

The bolded really looks like Yuri wants to placate Titus immediately after saying the contradiction was bad. Like as to not ruffle feathers.

Literally the entire post is me trying to placate Titus bc that hydra is probtown and them pushing me is a distraction

Why do you care to placate them?

If you're town play your town game and scumhunt. You shouldn't try to appease them because they are pushing you.

[Fro99er]

What do you think of Uzi?

Uzi's in my ISO. I've made my read on him pretty clear.

[Fro99er]

I have a theory that Sondam and Yuri are scum together.

[Fro99er]

Can you talk to me about your Frogger read? I wasn't a huge fan of the shallow read on LUV from him and the townread on Spiffeh that looked kinda like he was trying to buddy him.

I call bullshit that my read was shallow on Uzi.

And then I started to doubt my spiffeh read. Are you even paying attention?

[Fro99er]

You were the one that tr Uzi for tring nero?

No.

I tr Uzi, but not for that.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Fro99er

Haven't read anything since the day started, voting for the scummiest in the resolution phase.

This is basically a scumclaim.

Haven't read any of the day phase and haven't checked any vote counts to make sure I'm not hammering or anything like that and haven't read to see if frog has been more town or not.

[Fro99er]

tbh I forgot Drixx was in this game.
Why do you not like Vecna?

-Nebby

He seems intent on starting a fight that would do nothing to help the game state, and his push at the start was a little . He's not lock scum for me, like Math thinks. Yet, if a wagon happened there, I'd vote it.

~Titus

I'm more sure on Uzi!town than Vecna!town.

Vecna basically meta cleared Uzi, which really only happens if they are scum together, town together, or if Vecna is scum and Uzi is town. I don't see a world in which Vecna is town legitimately meta clearing Uzi, and Uzi is pulling off this amazing scum game fooling Vecna.

So 2 of the 3 scenarios paint Uzi town, 1 of the 3 paint Vecna town. But of course town is more likely in general. So probabilistically I really like Uzi for town. Plus some of the posts I quoted from Uzi scream town to me, so it's not just a probability-based argument.

I was scum with Uzi last game. I know his annoyances, I know how he responds to stuff, and to be a blunt asshole im not sure if he's capable of doing a complete turn-around on some of his scum tendencies.

Were town together this game, and thats why im meta-clearing him. If I was scum, would I make posts where I promise not to vote him the entire game, or keep him as an easy scapegoat for lategame?

Either way, I guess people using meta must be scum

What?

[Fro99er]

I never said you're scum Vecna. Jesus fuck. Learnt to read.

[Fro99er]

I never said you're scum Vecna. Jesus fuck. Learnt to read.

learnt to read

*walks away with frog tail tucked between frog legs*

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Sondam

Ribbit. Frogging A+N

[Fro99er]

UNVOTE:

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Yuri

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Yuri

[Fro99er]

Spoiler: yuri's iso since he went to bed last night...hint...it's a hot pile of garbage

Just a quick question: what's your read on maxous?

Hey Creature why are people TRing you for being candid about not caring to read literally anything

It's majority lynch and it's in the rules

UNVOTE:

why the change

Can you hop on your main account Yuri?

No.

Don't be a dick Uzi.

What was the contradiction again?

ISO Sondam and look for gerry's posts.

Titus said the question about 'putting town votes on the wagon' was snark and idk, you go look at it yourself.

You know who Yuri is?

He doesn't. idk why he's asking for my main but choosing to taunt me instead of anything else is why i'm not moving my vote to Akane like I planned to.

I don't believe you. Not unless you can tell me who told you. I know for a fact you don't have the correct meta on me, so your meta is garbage. Stop whatever this is.

Just a quick question: what's your read on maxous?

He has the same posting style as a game i was in him that just finished. idk why people scumread him more. can you show me why?

The only problem I have with Maxous is tone stuff and that sort-of-joke townread on me for my mechanics post. Better to ask someone on his wagon.

Re: the contradiction, here's what Titus said in response. Feel like that should be there too since it gives a more complete picture

It's not. You see the question mark. It's a snark way of asking what is going on. What is their goal regarding the maxous wagon, which they don't answer.

Who unvoted/changed votes after Frog stopped pushing you?

Pedit: You didn't explain why you unvoted earlier

I don't believe you. Not unless you can tell me who told you. I know for a fact you don't have the correct meta on me, so your meta is garbage. Stop whatever this is.

No, I'm going to expose who did, would be messed up. I'm giving you a chance here to come clean because there is a possibility you might actually be town unlike Leon and Notice.

You don't have correct meta on me either which is how I knew you were an alt

It's obvious I'm an alt by the fact that I have zero completed games but got into this game. If I don't have correct meta on you, there's no way you could have meta on me.

Why would it be messed up to tell me who the hell outed me to some random asshole? I played on an alt for a fuckin reason and if that bothers you then just say so.

[Fro99er]

Hey Fro99er? You can shut up too. Since half your quotes are me talking to Uzi. Seriously. Not now.

You don't get to tell me to shut up.

Your iso I quoted is you doing jack shit to find scum.

[Fro99er]

Yeah, you're scum.

then vote them with me

Notice isn't a viable wagon right now

[Fro99er]

Just a quick question: what's your read on maxous?

He has the same posting style as a game i was in him that just finished. idk why people scumread him more. can you show me why?

The only problem I have with Maxous is tone stuff and that sort-of-joke townread on me for my mechanics post. Better to ask someone on his wagon.

Why don't you ask people who were on Maxous' wagon then. Instead of passing the buck

[Fro99er]

Because I don't care? Why don't you go interrogate the Maxous wagon?

Passing the buck again.

Why don't you care to sort out the people on Maxous' wagon or their reasons for being on the Maxous wagon?

[Fro99er]

Guys, can we fucking lynch Yuri.

He is literally NOT scumhunting whatsoever.

[Fro99er]

Yuri's whole "issue" with A+N is that they pressed Sondam about whether Sodnam thought Titus contradicted herself or slipped, or both, because the answer is "obvious"

No, the answer isn't obvious. If Sondam thought it was a slip rather than a contradiction, those are different things, and if they thought it was both that's also something different.

The "issue" for pressuring something that should be pressured is bullshit, and a made up way to scumread A+N.

[Fro99er]

And Sondam is literally scumhunting they're pushing that contradiction and Maria is saying who she scumreads. Which is apparently 'shade'

keep defending and not scumhunting

[Fro99er]

Not to mention he slipped as well, just not as bad as Notice.

who slipped where?

[Fro99er]

Not to mention he slipped as well, just not as bad as Notice.

who slipped where?

481.

I doubt town would phrase it like he did.

woah

[Fro99er]

I will have a neighborhood one way or another, because I am terrible without it and my reads are out of whack, hence I need neighborhood to catch scum. You know this too. You want me to give you scum? Then let me have someone to tell me what to do who isn't scum themselves and you shall have it.

- Akane

Isn't that the point of being in a hydra? You have private discussion with confirmed town for the entire game.

Can you tell us why the hydra is confirmed town?

[Fro99er]

Also why do you scumread Elbrin and Drixx?
-Nebby

pedit: I just wanna hear what they have to say! Gawd.

Mkay thanks for talkin to me
-Nebby

Bad tone. And wanted to talk about the scumread on them, but there's no followup. Just 'thanks for talking to me'.

I'm excited!

and naaaaah, I don't care about the omgus. It's cute that you decided to target my weakest point tho.
What I do care about is you originally calling The DEO's a contradiction then calling it a slip. Because THAT is a contradiction. (Refering to 891 and 899)

-Nebby

More bad tone, trying to brush off the scumread. Not going to get into the differing definitions of slip and contradiction.

I'm literally in a convo with you rn about an issue, why are all your questions like this

Oh I thought you had OTHER concerns that actually involved you reading my ISO instead of misreping and discreditting all of my questions.

-Nebby

Is concerned with how I might be viewing their ISO. Expects me, their scumread, to apparently have a lot of good points relating to their ISO. Like they expect there to be something there, and are ignoring that we are currently in talks about an issue I have with their slot.

What exactly is bad about the tone in the first two posts you quoted. I want you to specifically address the tone.

[Fro99er]

First one: responding with a joking tone (the 'gawd') is an easy way to deflect a comment about being overly defensive, which was the situation at the time.
Second one: Again the forced joke, and I explained the context in my post already.

Ali jokes all the time.

Why is joking a bad tone?

[Fro99er]

beeboy is underwhelming me this game so far, nothing specific really

Do you expect great things from beeboy?

I've never played with him so I don't know what the expectations are.

[Fro99er]

Here's the thing about notice's slip, and why I suggest we leave notice for another day.

I'm far more inclined to believe it's a slip if this is multi-ball instead of just town and one scum faction.

Why? As multi-ball, there is even more importance to daychat than there already is for a single scum faction, because it can give them a leg up in that particular power over the other scum faction. In addition, they would need to compete for the daychat power by submitting PMs to the mods, so it would jive with notice's mindset that they can compete for daychat, which makes sense with their comment "cuts scum out from getting it" (916). Not noticing the anti-town part but noticing the factional part (992) would be really concerning here, because they realize it can apply to multiple factions.

If just town, it's more likely than multi-ball that it's just a misunderstanding of the rules and thinking "faction" could mean town or scum. Not saying that's a complete clear by any means. I'm just saying if it's multi-ball I'll be far more worried about the supposed slip than if it's single scum faction.

With the way the phrasing is worded on the daychat power "anti-town" and "faction", along with the flavor (Civillization -- there are multiple civilizations even in Civ 1) I certainly wouldn't be surprise if there was more than one scum civilization present, so certainly Notice is on Notice. But I'd rather lynch elsewhere today.

/inb4 wai u speculating about multiballz

[Fro99er]

People in this game need to be more willing to wagon people

VOTE: beeboy

Let's start one here

You could join the yuri wagon

[Fro99er]

beeboy is underwhelming me this game so far, nothing specific really

Do you expect great things from beeboy?

I've never played with him so I don't know what the expectations are.

And could you answer this?

[Fro99er]

beeboy's wagon composition doesn't give me confindence.

I can read Kyouko pretty well but so far he's not town telling like he usually does.

How does kyouko town tell?

[Fro99er]

New theory: Yuri and Sondam are scum together with Spiff.

[Fro99er]

New theory: Yuri and Sondam are scum together with Spiff.

yes, i said that something my partner said was forced to draw attention to us. you got us.

~G

Yeah, I forgot about that.

theory is probably wrong.

[Fro99er]

Frogger instead of positing ridiculous theories why don't you check out Musical Mafia and see if you notice any differences with beeboy's play here

Because you will

I posted that theory before your beeboy post. Of course I'm going to check out beeboy, that's why I fucking asked.

[Fro99er]

I think it's an unreliable way to get a read. Taking someone's word on someone else's meta isn't something I'm willing to do.

Spiffeh, you want me to take your word on beeboy's meta?

[Fro99er]

I think it's an unreliable way to get a read. Taking someone's word on someone else's meta isn't something I'm willing to do.

Spiffeh, you want me to take your word on beeboy's meta?

(I mean, because I looked it over and see what you mean, but I want to needle you on this)

[Fro99er]

I think it's an unreliable way to get a read. Taking someone's word on someone else's meta isn't something I'm willing to do.

Spiffeh, you want me to take your word on beeboy's meta?

No actually I gave you a concrete example and asked you to look at it yourself so in no way was I expecting anyone to just take my word for it

Right, but Vecna gave a concrete example regarding Uzi too.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Uzi
~Maria

Can you explain your Uzi scumread here? Because for me the difference between his play here and in PYP was night and day

@Spiff How is this not a concrete example?

[Fro99er]

Spoiler: @Spiffeh how are these not concrete examples?

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

He feels way more daring and aggresive in his approach this game. He's more open about how he feels and is way moe opinionated, and he uses his hatred for mechanics discussion as an honest reasoning for some of his actions, but he doesnt use it as an excuse for why his play is lacking or why he's less active.

I did sr uzi but then I went to sleep and forgot what the sr was for....eh
VOTE: Max

Btw Vecna I don't really see that but then again you were around with him longer what are the dif's you're seeing?
~Maria

Fake read like I thought.

I don't think your scum though.

Mother fucker do you want me to put my vote back on you cause it wasn't fucking fake
~Maria

You can after you sheep me on Leon

See, this is the exact type of stuff I mean. Nowhere in the entire PYP game did he ever make comments like this.

I dont think im ever gonna vote this slot the entire game.

Luv you have my permission to remind me of this post if I ever do. Gimme a good kick in the nuts and call me to my senses if you will

[Fro99er]

ninja'd lol

[Fro99er]

But yes, I agree with your beeboy read. I just wanted to needle you for that because I found it ironic/funny. I'll pull up specific posts of beeboy's from that game to show you why I agree.

VOTE: beeboy

[Fro99er]

Also why do you scumread Elbrin and Drixx?
-Nebby

pedit: I just wanna hear what they have to say! Gawd.

Mkay thanks for talkin to me
-Nebby

Bad tone. And wanted to talk about the scumread on them, but there's no followup. Just 'thanks for talking to me'.

I'm excited!

and naaaaah, I don't care about the omgus. It's cute that you decided to target my weakest point tho.
What I do care about is you originally calling The DEO's a contradiction then calling it a slip. Because THAT is a contradiction. (Refering to 891 and 899)

-Nebby

More bad tone, trying to brush off the scumread. Not going to get into the differing definitions of slip and contradiction.

I'm literally in a convo with you rn about an issue, why are all your questions like this

Oh I thought you had OTHER concerns that actually involved you reading my ISO instead of misreping and discreditting all of my questions.

-Nebby

Is concerned with how I might be viewing their ISO. Expects me, their scumread, to apparently have a lot of good points relating to their ISO. Like they expect there to be something there, and are ignoring that we are currently in talks about an issue I have with their slot.

Yo. Is this all you got? Because it's embarrassing.
Consider this a declaration of war, as I will work on my push on you when I get home
VOTE: Yuri

-Nebby

I like this vote too. What you think of Beeboy?

[Fro99er]

beeboy is underwhelming me this game so far, nothing specific really

Do you expect great things from beeboy?

I've never played with him so I don't know what the expectations are.

And could you answer this?

In my experience beeboy has never been this laid back as town at least from I remember, but it has been awhile since I've played with him. Musical Mafia is a good example of what I've come to expect from town!beeboy (link: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65809)

I don't like 1105 where he comes in to respond to something about him without contributing anything else of value. 1169 also gives me scum vibes. Never have I seen town!beeboy hesitate to vote someone. If you look at Musical Mafia he is hyper aggressive and there is an extremely noticeable lack of that drive here.

town!beeboy putting pressure on:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7775722
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7775743
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7775754
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7775762

the posts go on and on

my favorite is this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7776857

I am obv towning so the only noteworthy thing is the Tictac read which I disagree with

Beeboy, why aren't you obvtowning right now. You should be.

pedit: Spiff I'm not getting at anything. I'm needling you/giving you a hard time. Why? Because I'm a smartass.

[Fro99er]

People in this game need to be more willing to wagon people

VOTE: beeboy

Let's start one here

I'd join ya. But I got bigger fish to fry.

-Nebby

@Frog

-Nebby

Fair nuff.

Yuri is scum too, so I'm happy with either yuri or beeboy

[Fro99er]

PV is town

[Fro99er]

Beeboy, why aren't you obvtowning right now. You should be.

cause people like to complain when I do that.

So?

That's not the fucking point of this game. The point of this game is to make yourself identifiably town so town can win.

This is such a buillshit reason

(Spiff I'm getting back to you on Yuri but I'm pressing this right now)

[Fro99er]

I could be wrong but who is A&N actually town reading right now?

You're not even reading.

[Fro99er]

Also, this was too perfect timing for beeboy to show up. #JustSayin

[Fro99er]

Frog why is Yuri scum?

1) When titus gets on Yuri about defending Vecna, Yuri goes "but frog did it too" (314) without even realizing I also defended drixx (256, 260, 264, 271) in the Vecna/Drixx thing. I took both sides at different time trying to sort shit out, but Yuri basically says why didn't you call out frog for defending Vecna, as a justification to why they did it. That's stuff scum does.

2) I'm only going to use the self-meta thing as a small point, but his reaction in 442 to when I went "SPIFFEH " in 437 seemed really worried

3) In 931 Yuri wants to placate Titus, and it appears he doesn't want to ruffle titus' feathers. It's super appeasing type stuff like scum not wanting to stand out. Yuri says in 940 that yes he is trying to placate Titus because Titus is probtown pushing them. However, later on in 1248 Yuri sorts Uzi as town and Yuri says he doesn't care about Uzi's push on him. It's a contradiction, so Yuri needs to explain why Titus push did matter but Uzi push didn't.

5) Yuri says they have issues with A+N in 952 and when pressed on what the issue is by A+N in 953 it turns out that it's the same prior issue from 941 and 943. Reading those two posts, we see it's because Yuri doesn't like A+N is pressing Sondam about whether Sondam thought titus slipped or contradicted herself. That's perfectly legitimate reason to pressure Sondam, to find out if they meant contradict or slip (or both, as it turns out). Because contradict and slip can have different meanings. It's a bullshit issue to have with A+N. (to read more about it, read my 1275 which explains it better than I just did here)

4) My 1245 shows exactly ZERO scumhunting of Yuri's. All of a sudden Yuri drops a vote 3 posts later in 1248 on A+N, with no explanation. Finally the explanation comes in 1268 and it's a weak and shallow read that looks like it's just there to appear like scumhunting from Yuri.

5) Yuri passes the buck on trying to read people on the Maxous wagon 1231 which I call out in 1264, and passes the buck again saying I should do the legwork in 1265. Why pass the buck back on to the person questioning you, which he did twice to two different people in those two posts.

So there you go spiff.

[Fro99er]

I could be wrong but who is A&N actually town reading right now?

You're not even reading.

I mean I did ask the question because I wasn't sure.

it's pretty obvious if you read.

[Fro99er]

Frog why is Yuri scum?

1)

2)

3)

5)

4)

5)

Has math Ph.D. Can't count to 5.

Welp.

[Fro99er]

Frogger that's 6 not 5.

-Nebby

right, but I couldn't even make it to 5 correctly

[Fro99er]

Vecna why are you voting Notice?

[Fro99er]

Yeah, you're scum.

then vote them with me

Notice isn't a viable wagon right now

You dont get to decide that. Its barely day2.

I do get to decide that.

Answer my question just two posts above

[Fro99er]

NoticeMeSenpai needs more attention. People are brusing his forced towntell aside too easily and are not reading enough into his weakass push on me with flawed fabricated reasoning. Only for him to conveniently disappear after it got too hot in the kitchen.

Can you read my [pots]1305[/post] please.

[Fro99er]

ffs 1305

[Fro99er]

My Max read has nothing to do with what Nero thought of him lol

You can go back to my response to Max's initial push to see that I obviously wasn't content with what he had to say.

Math really hates this Maxous wagon, and but I'm not seeing any scum on it.

Maxous wagon is horrible.

Vecna and Frogger need rope after they likely bus Yuri.

~~Math

what the fuck is this shit.

I'm really losing my townread on DEO because of this dissonance.

Fuck me. Seriously. Does anyone have any good tips for not fucking up hydra stuff

[Fro99er]

What are the others? The case he had on Spi?

just call him spiff or spiffy or spiffeh, please.

Yes. And also his terrible vote on Yuri. Like I said. i'm pretty sure either Max or Yuri is scum. Just not sure which, but I think Max makes more sense to me.

Scum trying not to bus Yuri.
~~Math

You're terrible at this game.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Yuri

Here DEO let me help bus my buddy some more just for you.

[Fro99er]

Yes Math, youre totally correct. Im scum together with frogger and LUV and hard-defending them out in the open because you caught us. Well done.

And if were all bussing Yuri anyway, go ahead and stick to your reads and vote the slot with us.

Because were all bussing our teammate on day2 of day1. With big walls and a lot of focus (look at me taking credit for Froggers work, but the point remains).

VOTE: Yuri

Go at it then, lets see how much trust you have in your read. Were bussing the slot. Lets speedwagon this.

WOOOOO LETS DRIVE THE BUS VECNA!!!!!

[Fro99er]

I think DEO is probably doing some intentional good cop bad cop shit with their nearly diametrically opposed views, and it's annoying as fuck.

[Fro99er]

Im loving Uzi's playstyle this game. Its on the nose and hilarious.

Hoping to see him wreck the scum team in style with me.

Stuff like this makes me really paranoid you're scum buddying him.

[Fro99er]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

I've never played with math. Can you ask them the reason for the scumread on me?

[Fro99er]

You siteflaked because of me?

No!

I love you.

I siteflaked because of pissing wars in general.

I'm not going to name names, but it was NOT you

[Fro99er]

I'm really uncomfortable with how easily Vecna and frogger shifted onto yuri

This is such bull

I've been scumreading yuri basically all game and I've tried to get a Yuri wagon going multiple times.

[Fro99er]

Can you at least ask about the Jeareed read Titus? Because the explenation I was given was incomprehensible to me.

Mathblade uses They for the record.

Their explanation is simple. JaeReed derped and derping is their town game. See Shadowrun. (I'm sure they'd have more detail, but that's the gist). 90+ percent of Math's reads today are meta.

I've never played with math. Can you ask them the reason for the scumread on me?

You're defending "obvscum" Vecna. That's their reason.

(Quotes are because I disagree.)

~Titus

But I'm bussing obvscum Yuri?

Got it

[Fro99er]

I'm really uncomfortable with how easily Vecna and frogger shifted onto yuri

This is such bull

I've been scumreading yuri basically all game and I've tried to get a Yuri wagon going multiple times.

And of course it's going to be easy for me to hop on to someone I've been trying to push much of today.

[Fro99er]

Still don't know why I should vote Yuri. No one is even bothering to tell me who he is.

Read post 1387

[Fro99er]

Frog why is Yuri scum?

Any reaction to my case?

[Fro99er]

Ok now all of you stop talking about what you're talking about and vote for beeboy

O.

You're not going to put me on some busywork case that you could have easily seen from an ISO of me and then tell everybody me to ignore everything else including my case.

You specifically asked me for my reasons. Now I want you to give me your reaction

[Fro99er]

First word should say no

[Fro99er]

Frog I see some of your points but beeboy is way more of a slam dunk as far as I'm concerned

Screw you then.

I didn't do all that work for you to just shut that conversation down

[Fro99er]

How long ago was Musical Mafia?

[Fro99er]

The "stop what you're talking about" thing was a joke relax

I read your case, I see your points, but I think beeboy has a better chance of flipping scum so that is who I will be pushing.

And do you agree with my points?

Disagree?

Which ones specifically?

I'm not letting you hand wave this away.

[Fro99er]

Forgot to talk about this: Problem I have with Frog rn is the willingness to jump on the beeboy wagon on the basis of Spiff's meta and not much else. Goes back to me when I get heat again.

And what's the problem with this?

[Fro99er]

Banned for using the mod's color

[Fro99er]

Banned for failing the entrance

[Fro99er]

[Fro99er]

Holy shit I'm a senator.

VOTE: impeach

[Fro99er]

Holy shit I'm a senator.

VOTE: impeach

Everyone sheep this or it's a scumclaim

[Fro99er]

I TOLD YOU BANNED

[Fro99er]

I am not compromising on Yuri cause I don't know why they are scum and I read the case on them but I kinda forget how I felt about it cause I am a scum fuck.

I do still really want a Yuri lynch like they are so fucking disingenuous with there reads it isn't funny.

Like it is too convenient for them to switch to me after Spiffeh presented information he already shared, they are ok lynching all the leading wagons and the lurkers.
They are also just town reading all the people who I can't be lynched.

I feel like they are trying to make it seem like they are playing aggressively while making a point on stepping on as few people's toes as they can.

2 posts apart. WTF?

Did you mean someone else in that second post?

[Fro99er]

Spiff why are you ignoring Yuri stuff

[Fro99er]

Ali, what do you think of Spiff abandoning the beeboy wagon and still ignoring my Yuri case

[Fro99er]

I also don't agree with Froggers Yuri case.

You never agree with me, so I'm not really surprised.

What specifically do you disagree with from it?

[Fro99er]

Also Frogger it concerns me, don't get me wrong, but I want to know why because making something up out of nothing is baaaaaaad.Spif why did you vote Kyouko?

Who's making something up out of nothing?

[Fro99er]

Dayvig: Caesar

[Fro99er]

One thing that does kinda bother me is that in 199 Pine and I noticed that buddying you as scum made the most sense (and he did do it) and I wouldn't put it past him to do the same thing here.

All the more reason that Yuri trying to buddy up to Titus is gross.

[Fro99er]

Spiff why are you ignoring Yuri stuff

Yuri is being pressured enough, there are other people that deserve more scrutiny than them that are being overlooked.

Like ssbm_Kyouko

Idk why you're putting so much focus on this, let me do my thing

So a naked vote on ssbm is going to put a ton of pressure there?

Yuri deserves scrutiny. Why you won't give any there is beyond me.

You were shouting at the top of your lungs to get beeboy pressure, but you won't even listen to me when I'm shouting at the top of my lungs that yuri is scum.

[Fro99er]

Idk why you're putting so much focus on this, let me do my thing

Because I push my scumreads and am trying to build associatives for later. you know that's how I play. That's how I tied Titus to Pepto in mafiaception

[Fro99er]

We could just lynch Spiffy, maybe it might clear Yuri?

We're not lynching spiffeh today. Thta's dumb as fuck.

And how would lynching him clear yuri?

If he's scum then yuri could still be scum. If he's town yuri could still be scum.

[Fro99er]

A Spiffeh scumflip would have both of us (Math and I) want Yuri.

Oh me too. But if spiff is town he is supposedly a big asset, and he can be sussed out as actions happen and through VCA and such.

Yuri should be the lynch today.

[Fro99er]

{ }
{A+N, DEO, Elbirn, PV}
{Creature, LUV}
{Drixx, Vecna}
{Spiff}
{ABR, ooba, ssbm, Nero, Caesar} <-- null line
{Sondam, Leonshade} (not together)
{Notice}
{Maxous,Beeboy}
{}
{Yuri}

[Fro99er]

I still haven't checked Fro99er's case, I'm sure that will upset him.

I am extremely tempted to continue ignoring Yuri out of spite.

Then screw you.

Thought we were friends. Now you're just being an ass.

[Fro99er]

Thought we were friends. Now you're just being an ass.

We are friends

I am more likely to act like an ass to my friends than people I don't care about

Well in that case I still love you

[Fro99er]

Titus talk to me about ABR. I always think he's scum, and he always thinks i'm scum (despite us being town together in every game we've played) so I'm trying not to let my biases against him take over.

[Fro99er]

Dropping me as a town read for not talking about Yuri is stupid and you should feel bad

I really don't feel bad at all. You would have been in my top townline with the other people I listed, but now you're close to my null line.

[Fro99er]

The most compelling point in the case to me is that Yuri ends up voting A&N who was once one of his town reads for pretty shitty reasons, without really engaging with people he was supposedly scum reading like Creature or Maxous when there was a wealth of discussion about both of them.

And yeah there's a considerable lack of gamesolving and pretty much all of Yuri's content is the back and forth with A&N or defending themselves.

This

I am not here for Caesar's posting style and would really appreciate if they would post normally

Big words are hard

And this

Also if Aeronaut lurks the game out it's a scum claim and I will be tunneling that slot with reckless abandon.

And this

[Fro99er]

Baah, get flocked scum.

Hi Math

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Maxous

Vote Yuri

WTF is this crap Vecna

[Fro99er]

Yuri: I'm not a fan of the buddying and whiteknighting, which I know is ironic coming from me. That said I don't feel like the emotional response to LUV's push to reveal their main was fake.

How is that even alignment indicative?

If I had an alt (I don't), I'd get pissed if someone wanted me to reveal it as well, independent of if I was town or scum.

[Fro99er]

Frogger trying to set me up as mafia if it's multiball based off one comment that quite literally was just me not reading something properly makes me really uneasy.

No, that was me saying it's quite possible you're town not slipping when everyone else was scumreading you for the slip.

Is your only read of me based off that?

[Fro99er]

Or we could just lynch Spiffy.

stop this

[Fro99er]

Did the toilets overflow?

because that would be shitty

pedit: @Nebby

[Fro99er]

Can Caesar give their royal thoughts on junior senator yuri

[Fro99er]

Senator Lil is again reminded that We do not serve his interests or his whims, this time calling his disorder on the Senate floor out by name. A further outburst on your part will be met with a public flogging and formal censure.

Senator Fro99er, as We have said thrice now, We will be happy to review any case you have to present before this noble body. However, We have not and will not lower ourselves to wading through the mountains of scrolls which piled in our antechamber as the Senate bickered prior to Our Arrival, as if Our August Personage was some mere money-counter. Present or direct Our Eyes to the relevant document, and you will be heard. Elsewise be silent, and permit Us the dignity of forming Our own opinions.

Augustus

Post 1387

[Fro99er]

Elsewise be silent

Nobody shuts me up

RIBBIT RIBBIT RIBBIT RIBBIT RIBBIT

[Fro99er]

Or we could say names and I say "town", "won't oppose it" and "i'm down".

Yuri

[Fro99er]

All this yuri talk and he's still at 5 votes..............................

[Fro99er]

I really think Vecna is town for that "I don't know" response.

[Fro99er]

I really think Vecna is town for that "I don't know" response.

It just seemed completely honest, and like he's not going to force a read for one that he doesn't have.

[Fro99er]

At the moment I'm inclined to believe you're just misguided town because nothing else from your ISO really stands out to me but if you keep saying shit like "Oh let's just lynch Spiffy" without justifying it we're gonna have issues

+1

it's kind of unsettling my read of Uzi

[Fro99er]

I still think people should stop giving people the benefit of the doubt (namely beeboy)

I'm not, but when you unvoted beeboy that basically killed that.

[Fro99er]

I'm just more confident in Yuri!scum than beeboy scum.

[Fro99er]

And I get you're the other way around, but we can regroup on that tomorrow.

[Fro99er]

And on some dimension the issues I have with beeboy are hard to articulate and more in my gut than anything else.

I feel like he's just going through the motions. He notices that I'm pushing a wagon hardcore and hops in the thread to say some town-sounding things and leaves again. There's no level of engagement with town reads or effort to convince people like Titus or myself or anyone else that A&N is scum. In my experience town!beeboy is all over his scum reads and makes an effort to get his town reads to see what he's saying.

Maybe that's outdated meta but it doesn't sit right with me and nothing he's contributed so far makes me think that's the case.

I think the most telling thing is both beastboy and yuri have responded to "you're not scumhunting pressure" immediately with attempting to scumhunt, but with really weak pushes.

[Fro99er]

This is kinda meh to me. The more of the Uzi/me dichotomy on Yuri and their defensive posture of others I found more telling.

yeah, I mean Yuri is just scummy in general.

[Fro99er]

Read ABR's ISO and tell me that's not something you want to lynch tomorrow Frogger.

His ISO basically reads like The DEO/Drixx opposition disorder.

I always want to lynch ABR

I agree though, and that read of A+N is shallow af

Sigh

I even did the different skin thing

[Fro99er]

I mean, it's both.

The post he votes them the reason is complete bs

[Fro99er]

Unless they come and in and do something I'd take kyouko over Yuri right now cause I am not overly compelled by the Yuri case.

What's wrong with the Yuri case?

[Fro99er]

@Mod: V/LA until Monday but will try to check in 1x/day. Posted to all games

[Fro99er]

I would love to give math some constructive feedback. But this is all confbiased as hell.

Only a flip will save math. And it not even be a Yuri one because they think Vecna, Spiff, and I are all bussing Yuri