Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Garmr]

/confirm

[Garmr]

VOTE: Lowell

Don't lurk this time.

[Garmr]

So tex do you prefer dogs or cats I think dogs are better.










 

[Garmr]

VOTE: garmr

I'll do what I wanna lurk.

tch

[Garmr]

I'm liking sakura hana for town don't think I need to really expand on why.

I don't find knightmares intial reaction scummy or townie I feel like it's null for early game, Jumping onto another wagon and switching your votes in rvs isn't alignment indicative. His latter talks with sakura seem a bit overly defensive but I don't know knightmare enough to attribute that to a trait. I can see a newer player being defensive but when I went to meta him this is his second game and he hasn't finished the other.

Knightmare have you played on other sites you seem pretty knowledgeable?

also

UNVOTE: lowell

VOTE: lowell

Oh hey knight is scum. Good find, whoever started this. Early wagons rule. BLOOD!

VOTE: knight

this is the worst vote on the wagon so far.

this vote's now serious.

[Garmr]

Wait what the heck? did you just unvote a person and revoted the same person? what the hell? XD

For the lols

P-Edit:

I'm liking sakura hana for town don't think I need to really expand on why.

What if i want you to expand on why?

Then I would. I'm going to guess you are going to ask.

It's the fact you keeped pushing knightmare for information when you didn't have to while maintaining logical reasoning and supporting your beliefs, it just flows off naturally and not artificial like a scum post would. Even through I disagree with you about it being scummy to switch the vote i can see your thought process and how you got there through your posts.

also what's your thoughts on lowell?

he omgussed me and then jumped onto the main wagon and you said earlier that those votes were making you feel uneasy.

[Garmr]

also what's your thoughts on lowell?

His OMGUS vote was the first thign that caught my attention, but also was accompanied by a defiant tone, thought it was townie back then. Haven't looked at all the votes on the wagon so far, it's just that suddenly sayaka and boon voted in succession and gave me a chill. Probably my gut trying to tell me something.
I still dont think Knight's very townie, but if he is the people that blindly sheeped me would be the first ppl i would look at... I usually have trouble convincing ppl of my reads since they come from gut most of the time, and ppl just blindly sheeping me gives me a bad feeling.

rarely stick and the wagons always seem to fail. I wouldn't be surprised if he got confidence from that. Besides judging from his actions his not going to lurk this game unlike a previous game. Nothing he has done this game rings town to me. The only post of his I actually like is this.

Well I would argue that knight is impossible to lynch, because as soon as the votes got serious many folks, including you, mysteriously got cold feet.

So you see we have a bit of a catch-22 here. Which hurts my brain. Let's do less thinking and more playing with our hearts... and guts.... kill knight.

But I wouldn't expect him to push this logic since the last game we had just ended recently and this logic I focused on ari who was town which was a factor as to why we lost the game that and johnny sucks at cop.

[Garmr]

Enough of knightmare to get an initial town lean on him. Sayaka though could use some pressure to get them talking.

Can you explain more please?

VOTE: Sayaka

Preliminary town leans: chilled, Garmr & knight. Everyone else is more or less in the null zone.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on those two

. Garmr seems to be looking at things objectively but he also strikes me as a strong player generally so I would say my town lean there is cautiously light.

I liked chilled's reaction to Sayaka's naked vote earlier, I had similar thoughts to what I'm assuming he did in that instance.

Well shucks I will take that as a compliment

[Garmr]

(this post was written around 298 cause I'm sick of getting ninjaed in my previews. ninjaed.)

Wow this game really bloomed since

So lets get onto some things.

First thing is Sakura hana-Expedience
I find it extremely weird that she is getting scum reads when she oozes town for me. But that aside

Funny to see naked votes from the person that hates naked votes and gut reads.

These posts made me thing that you were scum:

All these people sheeping me are giving me the chills however...

P-Edit:

Unvote

Ok there's something very wrong with my wagon getting traction so easily.

Your explanation for your unvote is not believable to me.

It seems like you're just turning the tables on everyone who agreed with your (bad) accusation of knightmare, so that you always remain on top.

I also think that 28 is reachy. So if you show me that you were doing RVS things in 28, I'll unvote you.

This is gives her scum reasoning for her unvote yes but It doesn't disprove the town reasoning either. I could really see a town sakura hana unvoting as well. So in my eyes the unvote was null but her well explained thought process's and the fact she seems like she's genuinely sharing her thoughts from makes me believe this slot is town.

I can also see where exp is coming and it is viable that this could of happened but honestly when you combine it with the rest of her behavior I doubt it.

Quick rundown on some individuals.

Since I'm still sorting out the nulls I'm leaving them out.

Town reads

Sakura hana

Sakura hana even through her initial reasoning for rvs was weak she keeped pushing. She is being very vocal and pushing what she wants' Her doubt doesn't come off as fake to me when she unvoted. The only thing I found weird was her post 133 I don't understand it and it seems like she's being a bit of defeatist. After that I think she defends herself pretty well. I also like vote on lowell since lowel is scum in my eyes

Knightmare -

originally a null but after a while in retrospect he appears town. After the wagon on him died down he didn't stop hunting. In fact he hasn't backdown from scum hunting and is extremely vocal I this is a very good indicator for town. His interacting and pushing the game forward and is making a pretty postive environment for town.

Boonskies.

I have a slight town lean on him. Every time I play with boonscum he has been a lurker hidden in the background which you forget about. I have never seen him post like this. Actually I have never seen him post this way as town either to be honest. I think I will take it as him trying to improve his town game. Because he could probably get away with lurking and letting other people take heat it's what his known for.

Expiedence

I have a gut town read on this slot. His logic isn't actually that bad even through I disagree with it because it doesn't really represent the big picture. I would like for him to interact with people other and lay his opnions through

Texcat

This slot seems extremely scummy to me.

I am sympathetic with Lowell and his case on you. Sakura bothers me for two reasons. First her unvote when you attracted the wagon. This does not seem particularly bad though. It was basically an RVS wagon that took off. I can understand her unvote. Second is that she never attracted the Almost50 vote. This is what I was referring to when I said connections that don't mean anything without a flip. If Almost50 flips scum, Sakura would definitely get a scum nod.

Basically Texcat is lining up almost50 slot with sakura's then saying she would still push sakura after a town flip. This seems extremely suss to me as she early she was sheeping sakura's reasoning and pushing it. Also her entire case revolves around sakura being scum buddies with almost 50 yet she would continue pushing sakura despite supporting her actions and then she self defeats her first point.

Lowell

.His omgus on me
.pretty much obvious scum to me from his opportunistic vote knightmare
.his 276 reasoning seems rushed and just thrown to see what sticks.
.278 he cuts off a line of response since he knows the reasoning is weak instead of trying to get people to join his cause. This shows he just wants somewhere to votepark.
.283 This feels like dancing as he doesn't put out a real reasoning for his vote because I went through his iso and there was nothing like that in mh iso. He Pretty much made a fake scum read on the slot.

Don't have a third scum read yet.

[Garmr]

Well getting a thought out incase I die tonight. Goodlordwill doesn't give me any kind of good feeling he lacks content in all his posts. Just the way he attacks things he attacks things like how he has attacked the almost50 wagon.

This almost50 wagon is fucking stupid.

Like holy shit I cannot believe the reasoning for the A50 wagon.

I seem to be alone here, but I actually don't like Boonskiies' entry into the game. He reads like that uber-jumpy defensiveness that I talked about earlier.

Yet he doesn't give a reason why almost 50 is town.


So he can be a light scum read.

[Garmr]

I thought bad vibes were excuse enough to stop a knightmare lynch, so why do they not work with a Lowell lynch?

If people are going to be so fervent in their idea that Lowell is scum, I would like a hammer to help us be clear where players want to stand.

Could be because lowell is scum and knightmare isn't????

[Garmr]

Goodlordwill and I are both town.

Don't see goodlordwill as town tbh will you elaborate for me.

[Garmr]

So basically Boon hammers more often than Ika?

Ika is a forbidden name shhh. But jokes aside he got permanent banned for real life stuff that i'm not to sure about.

[Garmr]

Give Lowell a chance to claim at least. I think we can wait some time to let Sayana and some of the other players who can't post as often to weigh in. Garmr/Expedience are back so I would like their thoughts.

I'm still very sketched out by Madonna who is suddenly willing to let Lowell take the drop after defending him as strongly as they did. But not enough that I would reconsider Lowell yet. I can't clear him on his play alone (in fact I think he's pretty scummy for it) but Madonna is the next one in my sights.

Sure what would you like my thoughts on through?

[Garmr]

@Garmr - just general stuff about the game. The stuff that happened today, etc.

I felt like 292 was the post you are looking for as that was me trying to get my head in the game and my thoughts onto the forums. If there is something specific you want me to address that I haven't I am ok doing that because that helps me get into your mind and you into mind so we get some understanding and make better judgement then sure I will.

But if you want me to talk find something random about today and talk about it I don't see the point. Since everything I think is important and/or alignment indicative will come up in conversation naturally anyway.

[Garmr]

If people are going to be so fervent in their idea that Lowell is scum, I would like a hammer to help us be clear where players want to stand.

So Madonna, do you actually have a fervent belief that Lowell is scum?

Will agree here we have plenty of time so there's no need for town to compromise lynch in this situation. There's been plenty of people expressing there interest to scum read lowell as well.

[Garmr]

@knight - Okay, I get you want Lowell lynched today. I don't. So I'll contribute to a different wagon.

@exp - I disagree with your negative info. There will be more info regardless. To be honest, Lowell at this point is a good information lynch regardless of alignment.

If Lowell is town it means ______
If Lowell is scum it means _______

Any theories? There have been interactions but which strike you as alignment indicative and why?

Lowell isn't town silly but if he was it would mean that I am wrong and I hate being wrong. I don't see it changing much through with my other reads since the lack of reasoning and bouncing around.

If lowell is scum I am right I will get more confidence with my reads. It cements my read on knightmare and It makes me want to examine smith a little closer because that vote seems wrong. It's just like he wants to rest a vote where a wagon won't build and I want to know why smith?

[Garmr]

... It's just like he wants to rest a vote where a wagon won't build and I want to know why smith?

Why what? I'm sitting at intent to hammer Lowell. Do you mean the a50 wagon I abandoned a while ago?

I'm talking about lowells earlier vote on you it obvious it wasn't going anywhere and it came out of no where with little to no reasoning

Hey I found one.

VOTE: mhsmith

In ISO, this guy reads a little too "unfrozen caveman lawyer" for my liking. A lot of "I was under the impression..." and "Am I off-base about..."s, like he's asking permission to play the way he wants. Also he's weirdly sensitive about pushing people to L-2. Which, on D1 especially, is a dumb thing to be sensitive about.

Also, boon is town. Am I persuaded of this just because of his obnoxious multi-posts? Yes, yes I am.

and then he tries to shut people up when they inquire about you instead of pushing the lynch.

Stop asking questions: vote mhsmith. I promise it'll get hilarious as we get close to lynch. I can tell he's the type.

So i'm trying to see why lowell would do that. If he flips scum there has to be a reasoning of sort a deeper meaning I feel it.
If that meaning makes you town or scum is what I will figure out latter.

[Garmr]

Yep madonna is scum with post 500

Lowell or madonna is fine. Tbh a lowell lynch strokes my ego more through.

[Garmr]

@a50: walk me through expedience. "I don't want a quick hammer" seems reasonable to me. What pings your radar there?

@garmr: so your operating theory is that he knew he was toast and was distancing? I actually see how that could make sense.

I read it more as "target the newbie" than anything else...

But obviously "Nuh uh" isn't likely to convince you. Feel free to flesh it out before day end, long with any other "Lowell as scum means ___" theories you think make sense.

The scum side of It is more like this "he was distancing and in case you or him got lynched in the future it could be used as a distancing tool, basically laying down ground work."


But I realized the town side of it to which is why I said I would want to look closer.


It's weird how you are treating it like it wasn't yourself in this post but I don't think that's alignment indicative and more likely a play style habit.

[Garmr]

Still prefer lowell lynch to a madonna lynch but oh well.

[Garmr]

Still prefer lowell lynch to a madonna lynch but oh well.

Just because of ego or is there more to this? You've mentioned this multiple times but seem reasonably convinced that both are scum.

Probably influenced by last game as well,ego and tbh I feel a little more confident on lowell.

[Garmr]

I also didn't really like Garmr's subtly coming in and

saying he liked Lowell's lynch

, but was okay with Madonna's lynch. He never participated in the lynch.

Also, I am sorry for giving only 12 hours. I have learnt that these games have to be played with way more patience than what I originally anticipated.

I didn't like lowell much on day 1. He needs to contribute a lot more. I can get a clearer read on him.

All he did was "lynch this guy".

Incidentally Madonna read Lowell as town. So there was no manipulation involved there.

Not saying that makes Lowell town, but I will give him a chance. Let him come and put forward his ideas regarding the game.

At the moment my vote would be on either texcat or goodlordwill. Since texcat already has a vote on her, I will join the wagon.

VOTE: texcat

Spoiler: Post 565

I really do not like Madonna's putting Lowell at L-1 and now claiming that she did it just to call a bluff. Especially when we've been warned that Boon has a hammer that's as quick as Ika's. I can't imagine that Madonna and Lowell could possibly be teammates as ChilledTea thinks, but I do think that one of them is likely scum.

Pedit: Exp??

Spoiler: Post 574 where you voted

@madonna: is it your opinion that the wagon was a serious attempt to end d1 quickly?

This is a weird question and so is every instance where players in this game talk about serious votes. This is for everyone:

every vote, even in RVS, should be counted as a serious vote,

because you should absolutely always vote how you are feeling. If a player is voting someone, the voter is saying, "I want this person lynched," not, "No feelings or beliefs behind this." I can accept votes that okay a lynch on a lukewarm read, but only if we are nearing deadline and the voter does not have a better, stronger read on someone else. No one should be saying that their vote is not serious, and if they are, maybe consider voting them to help make them realize what a vote means.

I do not think a wagon on knightmare was an attempt to end the day early. I think it was something which could lead to ending the day, but if the mafia were on a mislynch, it was for the sake of a mislynch, not a day ending move.

VOTE: Madonna

I agree that every vote counts, especially L-1 votes. This seems to go against her claim that her vote was a bluff.

Something seems wrong about this.

Like I can't put my finger on it. Something just seems wrong about reading the contradiction, saying that one of lowell and madonna are scum, and then voting madonna by giving the contradiction as a reason.

Why are you voting lowell now?

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

These actions don't compute. He is passively giving excuses not to vote lowell but then puts his vote on lowell for not answering a question something is not right.

[Garmr]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

[Garmr]

you were not you are sorry.

[Garmr]

you were not you are sorry.

If this is directed at me, then I don't understand this.

Ignore this. It's nothing to do with this game.

[Garmr]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You

were (not you are)

building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

It was just me correcting spelling so nothing game relevant.

[Garmr]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

All of this happened a few hours ago.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself. Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell. I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself.

Why does texcat intent to defend herself make her undesirable to vote if you think she is scum???

All of this happened a few hours ago.

Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell.

These two don't mesh especially after you said you want to see what lowell does.

I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

Why do you shift your vote to lowell to park when you had a scum read on tex and could of left your vote on her because l-4 is quite the distance away from l-1?

[Garmr]

Lowell are you trying to draw out a claim or soft claiming something?

[Garmr]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

Do you think Lowell is scum?

I been thinking it over and I'm not really to sure anymore.

[Garmr]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

Do you think Lowell is scum?

I been thinking it over and I'm not really to sure anymore.

Is it because of him softclaiming?

Still prefer lowell lynch to a madonna lynch but oh well.

You seemed like you wanted to lynch Lowell over Madonna yesterday, I expected you to push him today.

I admit the soft claim is a part of it. Just chilled teas interactions with lowell kind of urk me as well. I'm trying to sort out things in my head.

[Garmr]

Lowell are you trying to draw out a claim?

Honestly? Yes, I guess? Now that I'm thinking about it maybe it's not a good idea.

And my theory, btw, is that tex makes sense as a person to roleblock. He was cagey on D1, but not TOO obvious a target that scum would avoid having him make the kill. That, plus his being suspiciously MIA today make me think someone blocked him.

If no one wants to claim this, that's fine, but if said person ends up dead this will be pointlessly lost information. But yeah, if it were me, I'd be jumping up and down taking credit for blocking a NK. It'd be worth a 1 for 1 trade, esp given the blocked nightkill. But whatever.

Why do you think it's a roleblock and not a doctor? Going to be honest here I have only honestly seen people call out roles in such a obvious way as town before (including myself) So you kinda have that going for you now.

[Garmr]

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

All of this happened a few hours ago.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself. Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell. I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."

Hmm. What do you think is the chance of lowell getting lynched because of this particular wagon?

Also, you are scum.
VOTE: texcat

VOTE: Chilledtea
I was considering what you since I wasn't really happy with your answer. But this shows you only backed off texcat because she was defending herself not because you town read her.

[Garmr]

Garmr and texcat are both scum.

Both are giving bs reasons as explanations.

I specifically said

Shouldn't you be more sure of Lowell being town if one of lowell and madonna were scum and you had read madonna's contradiction?

I mean, can a person miss something like that? I caught it immediately and thought that was a very good catch by you. Even though it turned out to be that Madonna is town.

I guess it is not something we can verify at the moment.

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

Where did I specify that texcat is town? I never did.

Huh That's why I was hesitant in voting you in the first place becuase I was under the impression you may of thought tex cat defence was legit and you thought she was town. If that's not the case can you tell me the town motive to back off texcat who was defending herself. You were getting her to open and getting information out of her why would you stop that?

[Garmr]

Garmr and texcat are both scum.

Both are giving bs reasons as explanations.

I specifically said

Shouldn't you be more sure of Lowell being town if one of lowell and madonna were scum and you had read madonna's contradiction?

I mean, can a person miss something like that? I caught it immediately and thought that was a very good catch by you. Even though it turned out to be that Madonna is town.

I guess it is not something we can verify at the moment.

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

Where did I specify that texcat is town? I never did.

Huh That's why I was hesitant in voting you in the first place becuase I was under the impression you may of thought tex cat defence was legit and you thought she was town. If that's not the case can you tell me the town motive to back off texcat who was defending herself. You were getting her to open and getting information out of her why would you stop that?

Because there was nothing else I could ask her at that time. We reached a dead end. It was a tie.
Also lowell was acting strange and I wanted more input from him to properly read him. I don't see it as necessary that you must vote a person whom you are considering as fence-scum or null or whatever.
Why did you think I took away the vote from texcat? I didn't have much to go on at that point on her. I don't see how you reached the conclusion that she is town in my eyes. Also she was on L-4 and I rather pressurize Lowell than vote park on a person whom I am getting null reads from at that point.

Wait you were null reading her then after she started questioning you started scum reading her again. That's like a premature omgus and not to mention you started scum reading me because I voted you?

Also what is bullshit that you couldn't ask her anymore questions that's fucking pathetic you finally got her to talk and you only posted 2 or 3 points and you had nothing left to talk about despite the fact you could of asked her about her reads,thoughts on the madonna wagon anything ect. Hell you could of even asked other people to jump on the wagon to add more pressure to texcat to see how she would react.

Like you said the time frame with giving lowell a chance to lowell vote was a couple of hours for the input seems really weird. Also you saying that lowell was acting strange wasn't even your original reasoning for voting him it was "him ignoring you and cutting off his chance for doing that despite having plenty of time "(I would of gave 2-3 days if I was giving some a chance due to the fact we all have real lives). The fact you are changing events makes is a really bad sign.

The reason I thought you were town reading tex is because you didn't choose to pursue her after switching the vote or even say anything about your read on her when pushed on why you switched vote so I assumed the only logical reasoning was you were town reading her because of her defense since you mentioned that it played a part in your unvote. A townie would continue pushing her with a scum or null lean to try and sort her out not leave her alone due to some inconvenience of it being to difficult to push.

[Garmr]

Spoiler:

Garmr and texcat are both scum.

Both are giving bs reasons as explanations.

I specifically said

Shouldn't you be more sure of Lowell being town if one of lowell and madonna were scum and you had read madonna's contradiction?

I mean, can a person miss something like that? I caught it immediately and thought that was a very good catch by you. Even though it turned out to be that Madonna is town.

I guess it is not something we can verify at the moment.

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

Where did I specify that texcat is town? I never did.

Huh That's why I was hesitant in voting you in the first place becuase I was under the impression you may of thought tex cat defence was legit and you thought she was town. If that's not the case can you tell me the town motive to back off texcat who was defending herself. You were getting her to open and getting information out of her why would you stop that?

Because there was nothing else I could ask her at that time. We reached a dead end. It was a tie.
Also lowell was acting strange and I wanted more input from him to properly read him. I don't see it as necessary that you must vote a person whom you are considering as fence-scum or null or whatever.
Why did you think I took away the vote from texcat? I didn't have much to go on at that point on her. I don't see how you reached the conclusion that she is town in my eyes. Also she was on L-4 and I rather pressurize Lowell than vote park on a person whom I am getting null reads from at that point.

Wait you were null reading her then after she started questioning you started scum reading her again. That's like a premature omgus and not to mention you started scum reading me because I voted you?

Also what is bullshit that you couldn't ask her anymore questions that's fucking pathetic you finally got her to talk and you only posted 2 or 3 points and you had nothing left to talk about despite the fact you could of asked her about her reads,thoughts on the madonna wagon anything ect. Hell you could of even asked other people to jump on the wagon to add more pressure to texcat to see how she would react.

Like you said the time frame with giving lowell a chance to lowell vote was a couple of hours for the input seems really weird. Also you saying that lowell was acting strange wasn't even your original reasoning for voting him it was "him ignoring you and cutting off his chance for doing that despite having plenty of time "(I would of gave 2-3 days if I was giving some a chance due to the fact we all have real lives). The fact you are changing events makes is a really bad sign.

The reason I thought you were town reading tex is because you didn't choose to pursue her after switching the vote or even say anything about your read on her when pushed on why you switched vote so I assumed the only logical reasoning was you were town reading her because of her defense since you mentioned that it played a part in your unvote. A townie would continue pushing her with a scum or null lean to try and sort her out not leave her alone due to some inconvenience of it being to difficult to push.

Obviously you don't know what a townie would do at that time. You aren't a townie.
Asking bs questions like yours isn't what a townie does. A townie carefully looks at a situation and sees if there is any doubt in his mind regarding several players. If there is a doubt they ask the question regarding the doubt.

This is almost scum-claim at this point from you. Why would I ask a question just for the sake of asking and creating discussion? There are several people I am interested in, not just texcat. Also, incredible simplification and in general misrepping of the events that happened between me and texcat. Texcat said that I am "jumping wagons" because of one vote switch. The said wagon on Lowell isn't even that serious and will not catch speed. The texcat wagon was actually far more serious, which is the reason why I removed my vote from it to make lowell talk.

I mean, are we really arguing over why I changed my vote? Texcat came and defended herself and I couldn't pursue her more at that point. Maybe she is scum, but there is nothing as far as I am aware that would indicate such.

Lowell's lack of participation and general ambiguity makes me think voting him would always be a better move.

"Maybe she is scum"

This was some time back now.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I am town.

Asking bs questions like yours isn't what a townie does. A townie carefully looks at a situation and sees if there is any doubt in his mind regarding several players. If there is a doubt they ask the question regarding the doubt.

are you fucking kidding me are are you fucking kidding what were all my post between 654 to 666 you dunce.

This is almost scum-claim at this point from you. Why would I ask a question just for the sake of asking and creating discussion?

To try and sort out your null read to try and get something to slip fucking basic mafia logic something you learn in newbie fucking games.

There are several people I am interested in, not just texcat.

This means nothing if all your going to do is vote park on lowell. Fuck you could even of pressured him with some post a case after your vote but you pretty much just park it and do fuck all about him.

Actually now I look at this the timeline went diffrently from what I remembered.

Lowell what made you change your mind regarding your scum reads? What made texcat suddenly scummy?

Lowell I want an answer to this.

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

I was under the impression that lowell voted/posted somewhere between here but isn't the case at all. That's why giving lowell a chance doesn't compute. Becuase like you said it was only a couple of hours. This jsut shows me you didn't want texcat to back fire on you.

Also, incredible simplification and in general misrepping of the events that happened between me and texcat. Texcat said that I am "jumping wagons" because of one vote switch. The said wagon on Lowell isn't even that serious and will not catch speed. The texcat wagon was actually far more serious, which is the reason why I removed my vote from it to make lowell talk.

I'm not missrepping a thing. Crying misrep when no misrep has taken place is a scum tell for someone who can't defend themselves because they have been caught. If you thought the lowell wagon isn't serious why would you jump off the serious wagon which you had a null-scum read on to a null wagon that you believe wouldn't pick up because that pressure excuse is horrible L-5 wouldn't pressure anyone lol. If you don't expect a lowell wagon to take off then why vote it instead of pushing him even more verbally because despite claiming to pressure him you have done nothing of the sort after...

That also puts your jump on to texcat in a bad light since the lowell wagon picked up.

[Garmr]

Look, I don't tolerate bs reasons.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."

This is completely and utterly nonsense. No one is going for a lynch with lowell wagon. Texcat is making up reasons over here, nothing else. She is scum.
Also, something like this for changing one vote? From texcat at the beginning to lowell after the interrogation with texcat. Really? Jumping wagons are you serious?

Look, I don't tolerate bs reasons.

Look, I don't tolerate bs reasons.

Look, I don't tolerate bs reasons.

Looooooolll you obviously don't read your own posts.

[Garmr]

All right, I am getting angry at this point.

I don't want to get into a swearing contest with you. I am not going to RQS on day 2. I will play the game the way I want.

And that includes not asking bs questions like yours.

RQS wtf these are game relevant random question stage are question that aren't even relevant to the game Like what is your fave colour. Stop trying to sound smarter than you are while trying to brush me off at the same time it pisses me off.

Your flail is real.

[Garmr]

All right, I am getting angry at this point.

I don't want to get into a swearing contest with you. I am not going to RQS on day 2. I will play the game the way I want.

And that includes not asking bs questions like yours.

RQS wtf these are game relevant, random question stage questions are questions that aren't even relevant to the game Like for example "what is your fave colour." Stop trying to sound smarter than you are while trying to brush me off at the same time it pisses me off.

Your flail is real.

fixed

[Garmr]

If others think there is merit in Garmr's case, then I will answer them. I feel like garmr is just trying to deflect attention from texcat's case at this point. So I won't be answering him because he is genuinely making me angry.

[Garmr]

If others think there is merit in Garmr's case, then I will answer them. I feel like garmr is just trying to deflect attention from texcat's case at this point. So I won't be answering him because he is genuinely making me angry.

Your deflecting from answering anything because you can't because you know you are caught. Why do you even play mafia if you act like this?

[Garmr]

All right, I am getting angry at this point.

I don't want to get into a swearing contest with you. I am not going to RQS on day 2. I will play the game the way I want.

And that includes not asking bs questions like yours.

RQS wtf these are game relevant random question stage are question that aren't even relevant to the game Like what is your fave colour. Stop trying to sound smarter than you are while trying to brush me off at the same time it pisses me off.

Your flail is real.

Hey, I am NOT GOING TO ASK QUESTIONS ARTIFICIALLY.

What is difficult to understand in that?

You're flailing so badly with this strawman.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Garmr

I actually read the posts and it's just stuff like "if u were town u wld be more openminded!! where is town motivation??", and it's reachy and dumb.

I felt like Garmr was scum during n1 after Madonna was lynched from the way he was saying he would rather lynch Lowell based on not much, yet he still supported lynching Madonna (since it occured to me that both were probably town). And now like, I dunno, he sees an easier target (chilledtea) and suddenly drops his scumread on Lowell (who he had been tunneling all game)? To be completely fair I could see this coming from town, but it still makes me suspect him.

In 292 he reads Sakura, knightmare and I all as town and I remember it throwing me off a bit, but I think it should've been something that made me look more intently at him. I read the post again and he calls me town while saying that my push on Sakura is bad, even the way that he says it sounds really concilatory.

So can you actually make a point as to how I am scum?

Disagreeing with a town read isn't scummy I do think your points on sakura were null and her overall behaviour reminded me of town at best you even ended up agreeing with me so wtf are you saying now you should have enough experience to know something so basic?

And now like, I dunno, he sees an easier target (chilledtea) and suddenly drops his scumread on Lowell (who he had been tunneling all game)? To be completely fair I could see this coming from town, but it still makes me suspect him.

Can you tell me how chilled is a easier target than lowell when lowell had the biggest wagon on him and no one besides me is pushing chilled? Also saying that you can see it coming from town kinda negates any point you made using that line of reasoning.

The Madonna reasoning is meh as it doesn't point to me being scum all it was was me trying to push the lowell wagon more at the time because I thought lowell was more scummy than madonna. You also thought both were scummy and so did many other people and also didn't other people stay on the lowell wagon as well?

I don't see any valid point presented as to why I would be scum.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Garmr

I actually read the posts and it's just stuff like "if u were town u wld be more openminded!! where is town motivation??", and it's reachy and dumb.

I felt like Garmr was scum during n1 after Madonna was lynched from the way he was saying he would rather lynch Lowell based on not much, yet he still supported lynching Madonna (since it occured to me that both were probably town). And now like, I dunno, he sees an easier target (chilledtea) and suddenly drops his scumread on Lowell (who he had been tunneling all game)? To be completely fair I could see this coming from town, but it still makes me suspect him.

In 292 he reads Sakura, knightmare and I all as town and I remember it throwing me off a bit, but I think it should've been something that made me look more intently at him. I read the post again and he calls me town while saying that my push on Sakura is bad, even the way that he says it sounds really concilatory.

So can you actually make a point as to how I am scum?

Disagreeing with a town read isn't scummy I do think your points on sakura were null and her overall behaviour reminded me of town at best you even ended up agreeing with me so wtf are you saying now you should have enough experience to know something so basic?

I think you were trying to manipulate me.

And now like, I dunno, he sees an easier target (chilledtea) and suddenly drops his scumread on Lowell (who he had been tunneling all game)? To be completely fair I could see this coming from town, but it still makes me suspect him.

Can you tell me how chilled is a easier target than lowell when lowell had the biggest wagon on him and no one besides me is pushing chilled? Also saying that you can see it coming from town kinda negates any point you made using that line of reasoning.

If you were scum, you would think it was because Lowell was softing a power role, or because the wagon on him was dying.

Town can claim scum, but it's something more likely to come from scum.

The Madonna reasoning is meh as it doesn't point to me being scum all it was was me trying to push the lowell wagon more at the time because I thought lowell was more scummy than madonna. You also thought both were scummy and so did many other people and also didn't other people stay on the lowell wagon as well?

Well, you stood out to me. It was as if you'd mhch rather lynch Lowell when you were claiming to only be slightly more sure that Lowell was scum.

I don't see any valid point presented as to why I would be scum.

That's okay, I'm not asking you to vote yourself.

1.I was disagreeing with you and trying to show my point view.

2.The wagon on him isn't dead yet as he was the top wagon and a majority of people still scum read him and if I was scum I could easily push there today with out much repercussion. If he flips scum I get town cred if he flips town the people that jumped with less reasoning than me would get the axe before I would. Also I could of pushed lowell at that point to find out what it was with no issues due to my stances yesterday.

3.We had heaps of time left we weren't even halfway through the day why should I compromise and hop on lower priority scum lynch when I could push the higher one and still have a chance of lynching that.

4.Yeh but how will you convince others to jump on my lynch if you don't provide a reasonable explanation as to why I am scum to others that's just pure lazy exp.

[Garmr]

n the middle of the night before Madonna had a chance to claim. I find that scummy. And I think that was to protect scum-mate Lowell.

Want to start a chilled wagon with me.

[Garmr]

My top two would be garmr, texcat. The third one isn't very strong - but if needed lowell.

Can I ask why you think I am scum and it better not be because I voted you.

[Garmr]

So you can demolish his arguments, leaving you the sole victor and proud owner of Zero Well-Reasoned Scumreads? You can argue any stance, I'm sure.

Someone sounds bitter I demolished their rushed together scum read.

[Garmr]

My top two would be garmr, texcat. The third one isn't very strong - but if needed lowell.

Can I ask why you think I am scum and it better not be because I voted you.

You nitpicked my playstyle. If I don't ask more questions to texcat I am scum.

I absolutely cannot see that as reasonable from any angle. The discussion that was going on had something to do with the fact that texcat voted Madonna while giving similar reasons to Sakura on day 1. I found it fishy and decided to start the day with the vote on her. The situation reached a stalemate because she said she didn't notice Sakura Hana's reasons earlier on during day 1 and only saw it when she was going through Madonna's ISO. There was no way to verify this, so I stopped and decided to focus my attention to lowell. One of the ways I do it is by using my vote - anyone at that point using an argument that I was jumping wagons is a very big scumspect in my eyes. While I don't think you did that, texcat did.

Your argument that the only reason I could have removed my vote from texcat at the very early start of day 2 is because I town read her is wrong. It wasn't just a simple unvote - it was a transfer of vote to lowell.

By the way, I am pretty sure that among the few people who did try to engage lowell today, I was one of them.

Your vote hasn't got much to do with this.

You nitpicked my playstyle. If I don't ask more questions to texcat I am scum.

I pointed out scum motive in your actions and couldn't find possible town reason in it thus not nitpicking your game style.

I absolutely cannot see that as reasonable from any angle. The discussion that was going on had something to do with the fact that texcat voted Madonna while giving similar reasons to Sakura on day 1. I found it fishy and decided to start the day with the vote on her. The situation reached a stalemate because she said she didn't notice Sakura Hana's reasons earlier on during day 1 and only saw it when she was going through Madonna's ISO. There was no way to verify this, so I stopped and decided to focus my attention to lowell. One of the ways I do it is by using my vote - anyone at that point using an argument that I was jumping wagons is a very big scumspect in my eyes. While I don't think you did that, texcat did.

I don't think you get the point. No one arguing you are scum because you jump wagons (well I'm not). Look from a outsiders point of view who has no information.

Person A: shift unvotes a scum read to go to a null read

Person B:asks why you did that

Person A: responds because I want to vote park on person d and person c was defending herself.

Person B: assume that arguing is taken as a town point by person B.

Person C: Says she finds Person A unvote suss and wants to interragote person A a little

Person A shifts vote to person C again in a omgussy reaction.


I am person B and that's how saw events play out. If you were a outsider How would you see this?

Your argument that the only reason I could have removed my vote from texcat at the very early start of day 2 is because I town read her is wrong. It wasn't just a simple unvote - it was a transfer of vote to lowell.

But there's more to my reasoning than just that it was the language and your behavior. Also earlier you said that texcat became null but this implies you were still scum reading texcat. It seems really inconsistent with other explanations.

By the way, I am pretty sure that among the few people who did try to engage lowell today, I was one of them.

Your vote hasn't got much to do with this.

Yeh it hasn't got much about how much you engaged with lowell.

[Garmr]

Truly endless salt.

Yes, yes you are lol. Post 771 Show hints of it.

[Garmr]

Truly endless salt.

Yes, yes you are lol. Post 771 Show hints of it.

Huh? I don't understand this.

Basically I'm saying his first post was saltiest.

[Garmr]

More nominees please? At least Garmr & Expedience should be able to provide their respective top 3 scum reads.

quick summaries then.

Lets see

Chilled tea

- you can see in the past couple of pages why.

Boon

-I originally thought because he was more active than he usually is was a sign he was trying to improve his town game since he hardly gets voted as scum but these last couple of pages make me feel diffrent. I don't like how he was trying to threaten me by linking me to tex cat while buddying me at the same time.

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

Yeah, but Garmr is always like this too.

I really don't like being buddied.

Expedience

Once I started pushing chilled he basically chainsawing for chilled. Then when his reasoning were ever debunked or shown as null he starts having a hissy fit like he wants to keep his vote on me with no reasoning he wants a excuse to vote me.

So you can demolish his arguments, leaving you the sole victor and proud owner of Zero Well-Reasoned Scumreads? You can argue any stance, I'm sure.

Basically shows his salt and his incompetence at being unable to find a good reason to fake scum read me.

[Garmr]

Sakura, when you return, please vote Garmr. Will you do that for me? Make sure not to make any wagon speed arguments, though!

Why you should vote Garmr
- The shitty misrepresentation of chilledtea, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric (these are like protective clauses so that he can't answer back)
- Opportunistic vote on me after I call him out as scum, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric
- His push on Lowell evaporates when d2 begins, even though he wanted to lynch Lowell over Madonna yesterday, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric
- On d1 weirdly he read you, knightmare, and I all as town even though we argued with no legitimate explanation why, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric
- I asked you to, and he always argues with any criticism of him or his posts using poor and scummy rhetoric

So basically anything I debunked you rule out as scummy rhetoric?

Also Lieing about me voting you

[Garmr]

VOTE: Expedience

Since my chilled wagon isn't getting anymore votes.

[Garmr]

Lol exp you're so funny.

[Garmr]

I think i'll watch exp and sakura

[Garmr]

Your interracial

[Garmr]

Interactions* autocorrect

Because I want to see if exp is still full bs when it comes to others aka not me

[Garmr]

I mean, you can't really go back on the "lel lets hard townread and chainsaw defend each other" it now.

So you admit to chainsawing for chilled.

Pedit

I don't think sakura is scum she's town its more about you

[Garmr]

You don't look relaxed

[Garmr]

I mean, you can't really go back on the "lel lets hard townread and chainsaw defend each other" it now.

So you admit to chainsawing for chilled.

No, I obviously didn't mean that when I said

you

, you scumfuck. You and Sakura.

So you did do it but weren't referring to that?

[Garmr]

I mean, you can't really go back on the "lel lets hard townread and chainsaw defend each other" it now.

So you admit to chainsawing for chilled.

No, I obviously didn't mean that when I said

you

, you scumfuck. You and Sakura.

So you did do it but weren't referring to that?

It depends how you define that buzzphrase. I think you are scum and chilledtea is town. I thought that you were scum before you accused chilledtea. I thought that your accusation on chilledtea was awful and scummy.

You use buzz a lot are you a bee. Because all your buzzing is counter productive to your cause if you use the word buzz to much it becomes worthless. Everything seems like a buzzword to u.

I'm telling you this because I don't want another 5 pages of your junky reasoning when you come back to me. Give something more solid.

[Garmr]

Oh, well. Let's make one happen then.

VOTE: Boons

VOTE: boons

[Garmr]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: garmr

It is true that I'm shamelessly sheeping here. But I want a lynch and am bored, and I never miss a chance too look scummy for some reason. Come to think of it I remember playing a game with garmr recently in which he was pretty helpful and good... in this game I've forgotten he's here entirely. So that's a bad sign.

Wtf it's obvious I had boon on my scum list before the wagon even took off what the fuck is wrong with you I had even more reasoning than you hypocrite much. Also didn't I ended up losing the game for town in our last game because I focused on ari and drove like 2 mislynches and outed the cop as a vanilla town so I don't know why you are making up shit here?

[Garmr]

I actually believe Garmr's vote was the most opportunistic, so I want to say scum is

Sakura/Garmr/Toasty.


I can see Almost being frustrating town, and I've been town reading Lowell. This makes sense to me.

Why was my vote the most opportunistic? I had reasoning on you before the wagon started? Also that's a complete one 180 when you thought I was town reading you you were defending me and getting buddy buddy but as soon as I scum read you you do this which is scummy.

[Garmr]

No, I don't think you understand. If nobody else claims to have stopped the kill, Boonskiies must've been the one who stopped it.

Not really. You're apparently assuming that both:
1) a protective pr would have been notified of success or otherwise would know that boon must have been lying (maybe only one protective pr per "normal" game?)
2) the protective pr would want to out him/herself to get boon killed (especially given the possibility that Sakura venge-kills boon anyway)

I don't see why either assumption is necessarily valid.

This anyway will catch up with this since my fun in the speak easy is over.

[Garmr]

If boon is scum I could see expedience being boons partner with the way he is pushing for sakura's lynch.

[Garmr]

Hell, after exp's "let's see if we can get ANOTHER town PR to declare" push I might even be willing to entertain his lynch. I feel like that's a bigger stretch, but I'll at least listen (tomorrow).

I don't mind lynching exp today.

[Garmr]

I don't think Garmr-Exp is town-town. Trying to decide if it's plausibly scum-scum. At any rate, Exp's role fishing yesterday was pretty terrible.

VOTE: Expedience

I think I'm up for a Garmr or Lowell lynch as well. Need to re-read those two and decide what I think there.

VOTE: Expedience
Don't care if you think I might be scum because all I need to do is lynch the real scum that is expedience to clear my name.

[Garmr]

It would be nice if everybody provided their updated scum reads (I'm only interested in your top 2 scum reads). Mine are Expedience first then Lowell.

Lowel would be my third after the claim but my top two

Expedience and Deirfire

[Garmr]

I wish everyone could stop offhandedly saying how bad I look. I have feelings.

You look like a model lowell

[Garmr]

Boon

-I originally thought because he was more active than he usually is was a sign he was trying to improve his town game since he hardly gets voted as scum but these last couple of pages make me feel diffrent. I don't like how he was trying to threaten me by linking me to tex cat while buddying me at the same time.

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

Yeah, but Garmr is always like this too.

I really don't like being buddied.

I think Garmr is bussing Boonskiies here.

As far as other scum, I would say maybe Maestro / texcat / Almost50. That's really all I can see.

So you bring up the point boon was buddying and then say I was bussing becuase I pointed out how uncomfortable I was with being buddied since boons never done that before. That's Scummy rhetoric Exp!

[Garmr]

Be home soon building a race car

[Garmr]

to tired to post had a long exhausting day.

[Garmr]

Be home soon building a race car

Sounds fun.

townpoints for Almost for trying to get the game going. But badpoints for strangely trying to link lynches. I'm sure I'm biased on this one, but I don't see the Exp/Lowell link at all. And not in the "oh man I've been trying so hard to distance but damn he got me" way. But in the, "I have no idea what is happening" way.

His opinions are deeply rooted in confirmation bias.

Yeh was turning my friends barina (australians gm motors suzuki swift) into a track car probably do stuff to the engine at a latter date Kinda over sleeped and have to go soon probably will be back sunday/monday very busy weekend since I have to go to a families birthday,arrange plane tickets and stuff for when my gf comes back over (she's moved interstate so its become long distance very hard but love her heaps) maybe I should go vla for two days?

[Garmr]

Ok then back

Deir is scum in my mind because of the way he handled boon. In post 1020 he suggest letting the claim sit and be examined latter then. Also I really don't like the fact he was one of the people willing to lynch sakura over boon in post 1020 If he was scum even through he would be losing a partner he would be removing a potential threat in the future and not be getting as much flack for trying to lynch another townie instead. He seems to be trying to subtly put the idea that boon may be town in sakura's head.

@Sakura

I think that you should fully claim your role and explain your reaction to the claim by Boonskiies. It's not as though it gives the Mafia more information than lynching you would, and I'm trying to assess the chance that you're both Town here.

anyway on to the next post that catch's my attention

@Almost50

I'm not buying this town!boon though, so I'm going to cast my vote on him regardless at the end of my read up (which should be 5-10 minutes from now).

I'm fairly certain that this is an error. If Sakura is Mafia, then she needs to be lynched anyway. If she is Town, then presumably she is being truthful with her claim, and lynching her takes Boon with her. We've an even number of players, so the extra lynch is a good thing.
The only reason not to vote Sakura is believing that both Sakura and Boon are Town.

EDIT: Do you have a source for the use of Vengeful as an explicitly Normal role?

he continues to push here that we should be lynching sakura over boon but earlier he expressed that it's could be a town vs town this rubs me up the wrong way as he has shown no indication at this point that he thinks sakura is scum


Fuck in 1088 he says there's no good reason that sakura would be mafia and since his town reading boon skies why would he ever want to lynch sakura or boon in the first place. It doesn't make sense from a townie perspective. If he was town and he thought both boon and sakura were town then he wouldn't want sakura to be lynched at all and wipe out two potential power roles(yes i know boon flipped scum but we didn't know at this point he was scum only scum would know.)

I think after the vengeful claim he noticed chilled behavior and started to push on him to try and get a wagon onto him. In response to almost 50s counter claim he tries to doubt on it subtly (the bolded bit) cast doubt on it while also at the same time lecturing chilled. It's kinda feels like scum trying to lecture town.

Why did you counter the claim, then?

In your initial response to Boon's claim that I quoted above, and in several of your responses recently,

you seem to be saying that your plan was not to counter the claim because you thought that your role was more valuable concealed. Initially, your response was even to allow Boon to survive the day (in favor of lynching Garmr).

What has changed since then that you absolutely needed to convince Expedience and mhsmith0 that Boon is Mafia now, today?

[Garmr]

And that's my reasoning for thinking deir may be scum exp

[Garmr]

Almost 50 what do you think of my case on deir?

[Garmr]

I disagree that the case on me is compelling!
I believe that my 1231 should address most of the issues. I wasn't voting for Sakura Hana and I wasn't saying that we should lynch her--I was saying that we should lynch her

if we were having trouble deciding between her and Boonskiies, because lynching her would allow us to get both

.

@Sakura Hana

Dierfire One main question i have is why was numbers more important than keeping the ammount of townies and more importantly a potential PR (even tho it was a gambit) alive for scum to NK instead of getting rid of it together with boons.

When I referred to the point about numbers, I meant that we wouldn't lose a lynch if one Town player and one Mafia player died. If we'd had an odd number of players, then a vengeful shot would have exhausted one of our lynches. It is true that I wasn't thinking ahead to the night phase in that hypothetical scenario, but I wasn't committing to that scenario anyway.

But the whole point was you were town reading both why would you want both boon and sakura dead as town. Also if you thought that was a good idea to lynch two town reads why didn't you want to vote sakura. Is it because a vengeful town can only shoot what's on their wagon?

[Garmr]

Sorry, I'm still just as happy as can be with my vote on Expedience. But I would also be happy to go back to Lowell.

Sakura, can you explain why you have Expedience and Lowell so high up on your list?

Expedience posting when the whole CC thing came down felt towny (it felt genuine that he didnt expect a counter claim)
I liked Lowell's 1296 even tho i disagree with the conclusion.

It looks to me like he knew Boon was going down and wanted to make sure scum got something out of it by insisting on a counterclaim. Did his questioning/threatening you about your vengeful claim toDay also look towny to you?

I thought Boonskiies was what he claimed to be. I insisted on a counterclaim thinking that none would occur. Scum would've got a lot more out of it if they lynched an uncced PR.

Is there any more as to why you think I'm scum other than that you think I was anti-town?

Sounds like a half truth to me, boon skies claimed joat who jailkeeped. The vague jail keep drop was probably supposed to draw out the role with a response, while the joat claim was probably an attempt to keep him safe if we look in retrospect. The way you were pushing and working with boon was probably an attempt to draw out the claim and keep boon alive with day talk it makes this extremely more likely.

[Garmr]

post got cut off

That's just one possible scenario on how you and boon may be scum buddies. You claiming that makes you town because you didn't think there would be a counterclaim is utterly false. Hell you may be lying about the counter claim.

So you pushing that your actions were anti town when you attempted to justify them seems pretty scummy to me as well, it's like you are confused on what to do.

[Garmr]

My actions weren't anti-town and I never said they were. I would never lynch someone who claimed to have stopped a kill without a counterclaim.

Is there any more as to why you think I'm scum other than that you think I was anti-town?

You were trying to push that a scum point on you was just being perceived as anti-town.

[Garmr]

I think after the vengeful claim he noticed chilled behavior and started to push on him to try and get a wagon onto him. In response to almost 50s counter claim he tries to doubt on it subtly (the bolded bit) cast doubt on it while also at the same time lecturing chilled. It's kinda feels like scum trying to lecture town.

Why did you counter the claim, then?

In your initial response to Boon's claim that I quoted above, and in several of your responses recently,

you seem to be saying that your plan was not to counter the claim because you thought that your role was more valuable concealed. Initially, your response was even to allow Boon to survive the day (in favor of lynching Garmr).

What has changed since then that you absolutely needed to convince Expedience and mhsmith0 that Boon is Mafia now, today?

I think this makes Dierfire town, anyway, because there was no way he would push chilledtea after the claim if he knew that Boonskiies was scum. The momentum was strongly against Boonskiies. It looks to me like town who believed what he was saying.

I disagree he may of had hope that he can save his scum buddy or stall it. You are ignoring the inconsistencies in his play and trying to find alternative reasons to why he is town.

[Garmr]

My actions weren't anti-town and I never said they were. I would never lynch someone who claimed to have stopped a kill without a counterclaim.

Is there any more as to why you think I'm scum other than that you think I was anti-town?

You were trying to push that a scum point on you was just being perceived as anti-town.

Yes?

But you are obviously being scum read for it so your basically trying to turn a scum point into something else with out defending against it.

[Garmr]

The answer is simple sakura lynch expedience.

[Garmr]

My actions weren't anti-town and I never said they were. I would never lynch someone who claimed to have stopped a kill without a counterclaim.

Is there any more as to why you think I'm scum other than that you think I was anti-town?

You were trying to push that a scum point on you was just being perceived as anti-town.

Yes?

But you are obviously being scum read for it so your basically trying to turn a scum point into something else with out defending against it.

What I mean is that texcat is scumreading me for doing something anti-town, that's what I mean when I say that texcat is scumreading me for doing something anti-town, by which I mean that texcat is scumreading me for doing something anti-town.

God my head hurts. The point is texcat and I included don't think it's antitown and it's a scumtell but you keep trying to push that it's antitown instead of debunking it. Your whole antitown thing is just scum rhetoric to try and survive.

[Garmr]

Hmm. I think I'm gonna do a voting analysis today.

@Expedience wagon: what would expedience scum gain from hard-defending then voting for boon?

An extra day for boon and maybe he could draw out the counter claim from the protective role.

[Garmr]

That's so stupid. Nobody really does that as scum.

Which is then why it might be a good idea to do just that as wolf. Ah, the joys of WIFOM and trying to separate anti-town from wolf behavior.

PS I could plausibly see Garmr's behavior there as bussing, but that's because I kinda had a "this could be w/w" feeling about their interactions from a while ago. Anything in particular lately to suggest that this is the case, or is this a continuation of an existing "Garmr/Exp wolf team" read?

I'm town but if you think it's a scum v scum scenario how about hopping onto the exp wagon.

[Garmr]

^
This is mafia in a nutshell

[Garmr]

Do you think lowell is scum exp?? Because I remember this

Nah, I don't really think you're scum.

Also, if Lowell ends up being scum after all this I will be super upset with myself. Because I can actually see what Direfire is saying about the wagon thing,

but Lowell doesn't feel very scummy.

Garmr is definitely scum though.

And not to long ago you said your reads haven't changed so is your vote on lowell a survival thing?

[Garmr]

That sounds so artificial.

[Garmr]

Why don't you hammer yourself isn't that what scum do.

[Garmr]

^can I have some reasoning for that because if you haven't noticed exp reasoning was pretty shit. He had boon as a town read and sakura as a scum read.

[Garmr]

I found it interesting that he reads you as scum and you find it artificial. Anyhow, that makes 5 people he has read as scum so I'd imagine at least one of them has to be right.
Though I am curious, what was it that you found artificial: the entire post overall? the apology at the end?

He spent the whole of day 2 and the whole of day 3 shouting I'm scum over the fact I preferred to lynch Lowell over that over madonna and the fact I was trying to push lowell over someone who flipped town and when ever I tried to debate points with him he would cry scum rhetoric so he could keep his vote. He was probally just trying to find reasons to vote me which came off as artificial as he never displayed something that appeared town.

If you read the game you would of noticed that.

[Garmr]

It's not your fault I'm more pissed at the people that replace out.

[Garmr]

Day 1 I was town read by the majority of players so it should be no surprise scum tried to shoot me.

[Garmr]

Well with exp flipping town that bumps lowell up to my scum list
VOTE: lowell

[Garmr]

Thank god I'm finally one-on-one with garmr. I've been waiting for this.

prepare to meet thy doom, son!

Judging from the fact I ever been mislynched twice and I think both times were in mylo You would be the one considered doom.

[Garmr]

smith is scum, and dierfire could be as well. garmr I hope is, as my pride demands I attack him.

Can I ask why your pride demands you attack me?

Also hope doesn't really sound like your convinced I'm scum. I mean you never laid down a case or said any reasoning. Also The whole jail thing is null It means that I was either shot at or I'm scum. I know it's the former but at most it should be wifom to a normal town player.
Scum could of left me alive to try and wifom town into lynching me as well since no one has provided any real case against me. In fact a few veiw points changed on me by certain day 2 as scum with no explanation but they didn't pursue it or push me at any point. Which i find really weird.

[Garmr]

In other news, toasty is town.

Riabi probably not

.

Why "probably not" for Riabi? Given that he inherited Sakura's position (her treatment of boon was insanely aggressive for bussing IMO), that seems like a surprising read.

I can agree with this. Sakura/Riabi slot is strongest town read.

[Garmr]

But these random stats are pretty much useless because we are not random machines we use are brains.
That maths process doesn't account for scums motivations to kill.

-Day 1 I was town read by the majority
-scum could of been hunting for power roles.
-my veiws may of conflicted with scum
- I could of been targeted to frame someone


There are heaps of factors that increase the chance of me being shot. Those Statistics are only reliable if you have a bunch of random machines playing.

[Garmr]

Also, @garmr's math disruption-- if you're going to argue your "towniness" on D1 made you a likely kill target and therefore disrupts the damning math, I would argue that same "towniness" would make you an equally more likely kill DELIVERER (killer, I suppose, being the obvious word) if you're scum.

At any rate, I feel like we're through the looking glass here, people. Stop trying to talk yourselves into a Lowell lynch just because I annoy you, and make the smart play.

I would argue that you as scum would be trying to push statistic to try and lynch a townie.

[Garmr]

If I get taken out then remember to go through my ISO, there are some conversations with garmr and boon that you guys will find interesting.

Spoiler: CT on Garmr

I also didn't really like Garmr's subtly coming in and saying he liked Lowell's lynch, but was okay with Madonna's lynch. He never participated in the lynch.

Also, I am sorry for giving only 12 hours. I have learnt that these games have to be played with way more patience than what I originally anticipated.

I also didn't really like Garmr's subtly coming in and

saying he liked Lowell's lynch

, but was okay with Madonna's lynch. He never participated in the lynch.

Also, I am sorry for giving only 12 hours. I have learnt that these games have to be played with way more patience than what I originally anticipated.

I didn't like lowell much on day 1. He needs to contribute a lot more. I can get a clearer read on him.

All he did was "lynch this guy".

Incidentally Madonna read Lowell as town. So there was no manipulation involved there.

Not saying that makes Lowell town, but I will give him a chance. Let him come and put forward his ideas regarding the game.

At the moment my vote would be on either texcat or goodlordwill. Since texcat already has a vote on her, I will join the wagon.

VOTE: texcat

...
Something seems wrong about this.

Like I can't put my finger on it. Something just seems wrong about reading the contradiction, saying that one of lowell and madonna are scum, and then voting madonna by giving the contradiction as a reason.

Why are you voting lowell now?

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

These actions don't compute. He is passively giving excuses not to vote lowell but then puts his vote on lowell for not answering a question something is not right.

You are reading too much into it.

Texcat came and defended herself so I removed the vote and parked it on lowell temporarily.

You are making it sound like lowell is scum and I am his partner bussing him or something. I can assure you that this lowell wagon is almost rvs-worty on day 2.

@chilledtea
Why did you change your vote on texcat to lowell? You are building a case on Texcat (post 629) and then you suddenly shifted to lowell. Why is lowell scummy to you and why did you drop your case on tex and do nothing to push lowell after dropping it?

All of this happened a few hours ago.

The vote change was mostly because texcat was on L-4 at the time and seemed intent on defending herself. Lowell was nowhere to be seen. So I voted lowell. I mean I indicate as such by calling it vote parking.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."

Hmm. What do you think is the chance of lowell getting lynched because of this particular wagon?

Also, you are scum.
VOTE: texcat

VOTE: Chilledtea
I was considering what you since I wasn't really happy with your answer. But this shows you only backed off texcat because she was defending herself not because you town read her.

Lol.

What are the chances of lowell or texcat being lynched? Why don't you answer that question instead?

Garmr and texcat are both scum.

Both are giving bs reasons as explanations.

I specifically said

Shouldn't you be more sure of Lowell being town if one of lowell and madonna were scum and you had read madonna's contradiction?

I mean, can a person miss something like that? I caught it immediately and thought that was a very good catch by you. Even though it turned out to be that Madonna is town.

I guess it is not something we can verify at the moment.

VOTE:

VOTE: Lowell

This guy still hasn't answered my question. I will park my vote on him for some time.

Where did I specify that texcat is town? I never did.

Look, I don't tolerate bs reasons.

I realize that Garmr already pursued this, but this post just stands out to me as scum yelling, "I'm just going for an easy lynch, I don't care who actually gets the rope."


This is completely and utterly nonsense. No one is going for a lynch with lowell wagon. Texcat is making up reasons over here, nothing else. She is scum.
Also, something like this for changing one vote? From texcat at the beginning to lowell after the interrogation with texcat. Really? Jumping wagons are you serious?

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

Then go for garmr. You already think that garmr is bussing texcat.

I also think garmr is scum. Expedience thinks that texcat is always like this.

If texcat is town, then how am I supposed to know that? Frankly if I wasn't town reading you, I would have thought that this post is some kind of a "I know texcat is town, lets lynch her and then blame ctea for it".

What do you think? Want to go for garmr then? If garmr is town I will take responsibility for it.

My top two would be garmr, texcat. The third one isn't very strong - but if needed lowell.

Can I ask why you think I am scum and it better not be because I voted you.

You nitpicked my playstyle. If I don't ask more questions to texcat I am scum.

I absolutely cannot see that as reasonable from any angle. The discussion that was going on had something to do with the fact that texcat voted Madonna while giving similar reasons to Sakura on day 1. I found it fishy and decided to start the day with the vote on her. The situation reached a stalemate because she said she didn't notice Sakura Hana's reasons earlier on during day 1 and only saw it when she was going through Madonna's ISO. There was no way to verify this, so I stopped and decided to focus my attention to lowell. One of the ways I do it is by using my vote - anyone at that point using an argument that I was jumping wagons is a very big scumspect in my eyes. While I don't think you did that, texcat did.

Your argument that the only reason I could have removed my vote from texcat at the very early start of day 2 is because I town read her is wrong. It wasn't just a simple unvote - it was a transfer of vote to lowell.

By the way, I am pretty sure that among the few people who did try to engage lowell today, I was one of them.

Your vote hasn't got much to do with this.

Take a good look at this list :

{dierfire, lowell, boonskiies, garmr}

This is very important. Scum might be outside it but there definitely is inside it, at least 2. There is a very small chance that garmr is not scum but remember there was no kill on night 1. I always KNEW boon was scum I was buddying him so that I could try and block another kill jesus christ guys, you should know that scum always try to out the doctor/jk when they are getting lynched and when they know there is a protective role.

In your initial response to Boon's claim that I quoted above, and in several of your responses recently, you seem to be saying that your plan was not to counter the claim because you thought that your role was more valuable concealed. Initially, your response was even to allow Boon to survive the day (in favor of lynching Garmr). What has changed since then that you absolutely needed to convince Expedience and mhsmith0 that Boon is Mafia now, today?

There was a chance that sakura might have got lynched and sakura was starting to think that boon might be the one who stopped the kill. She might have taken someone else out with the vengekill not to mention that if boon is vengekilled he might be allowed another night action, I am not sure how it works.
If town is getting confused because the fact that there was no night kill, then I decided to take the confusion away. It is their loss at this point if I get NK'd. Boon was obvscum even without the fact that he claimed JOAT/JK. It is very common to claim doctor/JK when you are scum, and know there is a protective role and expose him.

Initially I wanted garmr out and then block boon - at least that attitude lead to boon claiming JOAT/JK and revealing himself as scum to the rest of the town. Also, if you notice boon never got on garmr's wagon. He considered garmr as possible scum but never got on his wagon.

If someone wants to make a solid case for Garmr as town I'll listen, but all of this is good enough for me. I'll dig into Exp vs Garmr more later on, but between this stuff and the mechanical 50-50 odds of Garmr being the N1 shooter, I think this is the right lynch for today.
VOTE: Garmr

So what your voting me for is a percentage chance that I'm scum which I have proven worthless and a argument between me chilled tea where I debunked most his points.

[Garmr]

You've proven it worthless? You've certainly STATED that it's worthless but I must have missed the proof part.

As far as ct goes, I find his points kind of notable,me specially since we now know he's town. Feel free to re-debunk them though if you think it productive. Barring a much better lynch argument popping up, you're where I'm at.

That logic is horrible exp thought boon was town and his a dead townie.

[Garmr]

Hey I found one.

VOTE: mhsmith

In ISO, this guy reads a little too "unfrozen caveman lawyer" for my liking. A lot of "I was under the impression..." and "Am I off-base about..."s, like he's asking permission to play the way he wants. Also he's weirdly sensitive about pushing people to L-2. Which, on D1 especially, is a dumb thing to be sensitive about.

Also, boon is town. Am I persuaded of this just because of his obnoxious multi-posts? Yes, yes I am.

Gives a shit reason to town read boon skies.

I've had mild townvibes on boon from nearly the beginning, but his reaction to even a modicum of pressure is scummy as anything. I don't even remember what the original case was, but at this point I don't care.

VOTE: boon

Goes ages with out mentioning boon skies but as soon as boon is called out he is quick to vote him when boon is in trouble.

I actually believe Garmr's vote was the most opportunistic,

so I want to say scum is

Sakura/Garmr/Toasty.


I can see Almost being frustrating town, and I've been town reading Lowell. This makes sense to me.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: garmr

It is true that I'm shamelessly sheeping here. But I want a lynch and am bored, and I never miss a chance too look scummy for some reason. Come to think of it I remember playing a game with garmr recently in which he was pretty helpful and good... in this game I've forgotten he's here entirely. So that's a bad sign.

VOTE: sakura

I won't be happy until I've voted everyone! I don't have a case here, other than I believe boon and have strong townvibes on exp. So sure let's make this happen.

We know scum have day talk here it's pretty funny how lowell seems to coordinate with boon. I can easily see scum deciding whether to vote between me and sakura at this stage of the game and decided to settle on sakura.

@tex- yeah I can't defend that D1 bullshit on boon. I mentioned this already. All I'll say is what I said before, I damn well wouldn't be the last man on the titanic defending boon were I his scumbuddy. It's WIFOM to say that, but your post, above, was basically a mathematical certainty after that miss by me so there's no reason I'd risk it.

Just looking from lowell iso we can tell he wasn't massively defending boon like he wants us to believe. This seems like a poor attempt to distance himself away from his lynched scum buddy.

[Garmr]

@texcat: Re: 1559
1) I definitely get the argument that boon's actions on day 1 are plausible protecting a buddy, but I also think it's possible that he just was told to STFU and not hammer a townie by his wolf-buddies. As a mafia PR, it's important for him not to get lynched early on. So while I'd consider it a point of suspicion, I wouldn't necessarily consider it damning given boon's role.

2) Lowell trying to draw a PR claim may be a fair point. Definitely not a positive. OTOH he did comment on that at 955, so that may at least plausibly be a reasonable explanation.

3) 1034-1036 is a somewhat selective reading of Lowell. 1034 and 1036 came after boon's PR claim; I'm not sure it's unreasonable for him to react that way in the situation. 985 was an interesting vote. It's plausible giving up on a wolf-buddy, getting in on a wagon that was going down regardless... but it's also very plausible town process on reading boon.

Overall, I'm not strongly against a Lowell lynch. I think Garmr is a better lynch, though.

Sounds like absolute bullshit reasoning to hold off on a lowell lynch and go back onto it if you change you mind. There isn't a case on me other than some bullshit statistic which in the end means nothing. Also the fact you started supporting chilled teas subpar case against me now instead of when chilled posted, it comes across like you are scrambling for a reason to lynch me thinking maybe you could pull off a mislynch today.

[Garmr]

Just want to throw out there this morning, this argument between Garmr and Lowell I feel is somewhat coordinated and I feel like those 2 are the most likely scum team

If I was scum with lowell I would of jumped on to madonna instead of trying to keep the lowell wagon afloat.

[Garmr]

All right, I've been pretty deficient in content here lately. This is changing soon! Within 24 hours I plan to review texcat, after which time I will be ready to go ahead with a vote. I am close to committing by POE to the idea that Garmr and Lowell cannot both be Town (although not necessarily to the idea that they cannot both be Mafia).

Want to place your vote on lowell then?

[Garmr]

So no one actually has a case to lynch me OK.

[Garmr]

Instead of a case on why iam town how about a real case about why I am scum not this bs about percentages

[Garmr]

So no one actually has a case to lynch me OK.

That's pretty reductionist. Argue against the points made, or argue why Lowell or someone else is a better lynch.

I bloody already argued against you fucking idiot back when they were made.

Can you actually list points instead of quoting redundant posts

[Garmr]

Like seriously the only post quoted were an omgus reaction from chilled.

[Garmr]

VOTE: garmr

[Garmr]

Gj town you lynched mafia sorry about the wording was trying to play it up but seriously boonskies was pretty much the undoing of the whole scum team.

[Garmr]

Like when I was jailkeeped night one I didn't have a choose in making the kill I was strongly opposed only a idiot would have the person who the only person who was town read by the majority to make the kill in case of watcher or jailkeeper or some other role that could nab me. But we have this weird voting system that's like lynching aka majority rules gah. Hell I wanted to kill exp night one because I knew he would cast suspicion on me but boon managed to convince the other scum buddy to vote his way which is absolute bs. If I was left to take charge the scum team wouldn't be in such a horrible position but no one listens to garmr.

Don't even get me started on the fake jail keeper claim and nearly outing our other buddy by accident.

[Garmr]

Like when I was jailkeeped night one I didn't have a choose in making the kill I was strongly opposed only a idiot would have the person who the only person who was town read by the majority to make the kill in case of watcher or jailkeeper or some other role that could nab me. But we have this weird voting system that's like lynching aka majority rules gah. Hell I wanted to kill exp night one because I knew he would cast suspicion on me but boon managed to convince the other scum buddy to vote his way which is absolute bs. If I was left to take charge the scum team wouldn't be in such a horrible position but no one listens to garmr.

Don't even get me started on the fake jail keeper claim and nearly outing our other buddy by accident.

Lol my frustrations are making my grammar atrocious. Anyway good work town.

[Garmr]

It's tough to say. I get the sense garmr is more convincing than boon, so I don't know who would be likelier to believe boon than garmr in wolf chat.

Also, typically scum don't provide useful info post self hammer, so it could plausibly be a "my buddy is a newbie or pushover" ploy to make people not vote his actual buddy. Then again, who the hell knows.

PS exp is dead. he's town.

no ploy here my buddy didn't agree with me that they should shoot I didn't want boon or me to shoot.

[Garmr]

no ploy here my buddy didn't agree with me that they should shoot I didn't want boon or me to shoot.

Who's your buddy again? You can tell me, I promise not to spill the beans. Just put it in spoiler or something; no one will ever think to look there

Well my buddy is very well known

Spoiler: