Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Maestro]

Nah, I don't really think you're scum.

This is

nasty

at least you're in good humor

I dislike your tone.

I thought you were going for a joke there and figured I'd go along for the ride. I guess not.

I often joke, but I don't often have that patience for it while drunk. #meta bitch

how, it's like, a post

Get. The fuck. Out.

Or get on my level. Pick one.

I dislike your tone.

Fuck you too, sir/madam/it.

I think it's funny that the sober guy (me) finds this episode more amusing than anything else. Or maybe I'm just an asshole. I'll admit the possibility.

Patronizing! Strike II

[Maestro]

I'm not sober =/= "I'm not saying things that're 'AI'" tyvm mhsmith

[Almost50]

I'll be back ASAP, but tonight my internet connection is touch & go, so:

@MOD: VLA for 36 hours

[Dierfire]

I'm preemptively dodging the prod. I haven't yet caught up but I'm here for a bit and I will do so promptly.

[Dierfire]

Maestro replaced Sayaka? That slot hasn't made much of an impression on me, although I vaguely recall thinking positive things about Sayaka while reading the early game.

[Dierfire]

I think that what this game needs right now is more people voting.

[Garmr]

Ok then back

Deir is scum in my mind because of the way he handled boon. In post 1020 he suggest letting the claim sit and be examined latter then. Also I really don't like the fact he was one of the people willing to lynch sakura over boon in post 1020 If he was scum even through he would be losing a partner he would be removing a potential threat in the future and not be getting as much flack for trying to lynch another townie instead. He seems to be trying to subtly put the idea that boon may be town in sakura's head.

@Sakura

I think that you should fully claim your role and explain your reaction to the claim by Boonskiies. It's not as though it gives the Mafia more information than lynching you would, and I'm trying to assess the chance that you're both Town here.

anyway on to the next post that catch's my attention

@Almost50

I'm not buying this town!boon though, so I'm going to cast my vote on him regardless at the end of my read up (which should be 5-10 minutes from now).

I'm fairly certain that this is an error. If Sakura is Mafia, then she needs to be lynched anyway. If she is Town, then presumably she is being truthful with her claim, and lynching her takes Boon with her. We've an even number of players, so the extra lynch is a good thing.
The only reason not to vote Sakura is believing that both Sakura and Boon are Town.

EDIT: Do you have a source for the use of Vengeful as an explicitly Normal role?

he continues to push here that we should be lynching sakura over boon but earlier he expressed that it's could be a town vs town this rubs me up the wrong way as he has shown no indication at this point that he thinks sakura is scum


Fuck in 1088 he says there's no good reason that sakura would be mafia and since his town reading boon skies why would he ever want to lynch sakura or boon in the first place. It doesn't make sense from a townie perspective. If he was town and he thought both boon and sakura were town then he wouldn't want sakura to be lynched at all and wipe out two potential power roles(yes i know boon flipped scum but we didn't know at this point he was scum only scum would know.)

I think after the vengeful claim he noticed chilled behavior and started to push on him to try and get a wagon onto him. In response to almost 50s counter claim he tries to doubt on it subtly (the bolded bit) cast doubt on it while also at the same time lecturing chilled. It's kinda feels like scum trying to lecture town.

Why did you counter the claim, then?

In your initial response to Boon's claim that I quoted above, and in several of your responses recently,

you seem to be saying that your plan was not to counter the claim because you thought that your role was more valuable concealed. Initially, your response was even to allow Boon to survive the day (in favor of lynching Garmr).

What has changed since then that you absolutely needed to convince Expedience and mhsmith0 that Boon is Mafia now, today?

[Garmr]

And that's my reasoning for thinking deir may be scum exp

[Almost50]

VOTE: Expedience

He's a much better choice that anyone else; including Hillary Clinton, and certainly better than Donald Trump

[Garmr]

Almost 50 what do you think of my case on deir?

[Almost50]

I'm not sure yet. It does look compelling, and I wouldn't mind voting him, but Expedience is a priority IMHO. Then we decide who the 3rd scum is. (We only have two scum left, so it's an either/or between Lowell & Dier. I'm not too stubborn to see the possibility, despite the fact my reads on Boons and Expedience started off when they were fighting to derail the wagon on Lowell.)

[Sakura Hana]

I'm currently of the opinion that 1382 resonates with my thought process during the whole thing yesterday when dire wanted to lynch me. But then i don't remember much Garm has done before, im really having trouble getting definite ppl i want to vote because everyone except like a couple just feels scummy to me =/

If I go by what happened yesterday, Expedience's raction to the counter claim looked genuine, also Lowell's ISO dive on mhsmith looks like too much work for scum to do, which is why i have trouble placing them in my top scumreads list, i can't remember anything texcat's ever done and Sayaka and Maestro havent done much either, but Maestro wanted to be engaged so i think that's townie?.

I'll be mulling it over for the rest of the day (real life) and see if i can figure out this whole mess.

[FA_Q2]

VoteCount 3.4

With 10 players alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch.

Maestro (0):

Almost50 (0):

Sakura Hana (0):

Lowell (2):

Dierfire, Maestro

mhsmith0 (0):

texcat (0):

Garmr (1):

Expedience

Dierfire (1):

Sakura Hana

ToastyToast (0):

Expedience (4):

Almost50, Garmr, texcat, Lowell

(L-2)

Not Voting (2):

ToastyToast, mhsmith0

The deadline is in

(expired on 2016-04-19 06:00:00)

NOTES:
None

[Almost50]

@Mod: I totally forgot I had declared a precautionary VLA. My internet is back and stable now, so I'm no longer on VLA

Noted and corrected.

[ToastyToast]

I can certainly see a potential association w/ Lowell due to Boon's non-hammer, but I'd also consider it plausible that Boon's scum-mates told him not to draw attention to himself by derp-hammering, or that he himself made that call. I'd tend to file that one under somewhat suspicious as opposed to strongly incriminating.

This is what I'm saying. Believe me or not, but I'd never derp-hammer a scumpartner as scum. If you're not bussing early and often, there's no reason to bus at all.

There is too much WIFOM going on in this exchange.

And he spent practically the entirety of the game defending me and agreeing with my reads except he didn't want to lynch Garmr. I guess as he went down he tried to tie me to him as much as possible and I messed up by going along with it.

This is sort of an event that we can't tell either way. Both are possibilities but harping on it is useless. Question is WHEN did he start to tie himself to you? If it was before he was even in trouble of being lynched, then I think the chances of you being a scum buddy would be higher. You also spent a lot of time defending Boons, which strikes me as odd because he did next to nothing but yell whenever someone questioned his alignment...where exactly did your town read (or was it null, can't remember) derive from?

In other news, Maestro is being irrelevant. Secretly a boonskiies alt?

[Sakura Hana]

Ok so after mulling it over i have come over my reads on everyone in descending order of towniness.

ToastyToast
Almost50
mhsmith
--------------
Lowell
Expedience

Garmr

Maestro

--------------

texcat

Dierfire

The ones in italics im having the most issue sorting they could be on a whole lot tier of their own:
Garmr defended me Day 1 i thought i saw this as someone who was town, but only expedience and madonna seemed to have an issue with me that day so i thought it was normal, after that i can't remember much of what he's done.
Maestro's predecessor Sayaka made some comments wrt knightmare, then decided to not appear again after posting on D2, and then Maestro just came in here to drunk post and said he's been bored.
texcat: Parroted me on Day 1, supposedly done because she didnt see my post, and cant really remember much else other than she going after ppl for joining wagons.

The names at the top are ppl im pretty confident right now on being town.
The names at the bottom are the ppl i've seen the least i can call town from, and im going to start there.
VOTE: Dierfire

Mostly because during the whole exchange with boons, he sat on the fence and wanted to just lynch me so i could vengekill boons and was "only worried boons was town too" if that was his worry why not lynch boons instead of lynching me for numbers. I never exactly saw an answer to that. Moreover he decided to against the counterclaimer chilled and decided to believe boons despite the fact that his attitude was more scum than anything specially after my reaction test.
Dierfire One main question i have is why was numbers more important than keeping the ammount of townies and more importantly a potential PR (even tho it was a gambit) alive for scum to NK instead of getting rid of it together with boons.

[Dierfire]

I disagree that the case on me is compelling!
I believe that my 1231 should address most of the issues. I wasn't voting for Sakura Hana and I wasn't saying that we should lynch her--I was saying that we should lynch her

if we were having trouble deciding between her and Boonskiies, because lynching her would allow us to get both

.

@Sakura Hana

Dierfire One main question i have is why was numbers more important than keeping the ammount of townies and more importantly a potential PR (even tho it was a gambit) alive for scum to NK instead of getting rid of it together with boons.

When I referred to the point about numbers, I meant that we wouldn't lose a lynch if one Town player and one Mafia player died. If we'd had an odd number of players, then a vengeful shot would have exhausted one of our lynches. It is true that I wasn't thinking ahead to the night phase in that hypothetical scenario, but I wasn't committing to that scenario anyway.

[Garmr]

I disagree that the case on me is compelling!
I believe that my 1231 should address most of the issues. I wasn't voting for Sakura Hana and I wasn't saying that we should lynch her--I was saying that we should lynch her

if we were having trouble deciding between her and Boonskiies, because lynching her would allow us to get both

.

@Sakura Hana

Dierfire One main question i have is why was numbers more important than keeping the ammount of townies and more importantly a potential PR (even tho it was a gambit) alive for scum to NK instead of getting rid of it together with boons.

When I referred to the point about numbers, I meant that we wouldn't lose a lynch if one Town player and one Mafia player died. If we'd had an odd number of players, then a vengeful shot would have exhausted one of our lynches. It is true that I wasn't thinking ahead to the night phase in that hypothetical scenario, but I wasn't committing to that scenario anyway.

But the whole point was you were town reading both why would you want both boon and sakura dead as town. Also if you thought that was a good idea to lynch two town reads why didn't you want to vote sakura. Is it because a vengeful town can only shoot what's on their wagon?

[mhsmith0]

prodge. will be back soon, hopefully tomorrow.

[FA_Q2]

Texcat and Lowell have been prodded.

[texcat]

Sorry, I'm still just as happy as can be with my vote on Expedience. But I would also be happy to go back to Lowell.

Sakura, can you explain why you have Expedience and Lowell so high up on your list?

[Lowell]

Damn, sorry about that. I am not MIA, but work has been busier than usual. I'll get to this later today, or, at the latest, tomorrow.

[Sakura Hana]

Sorry, I'm still just as happy as can be with my vote on Expedience. But I would also be happy to go back to Lowell.

Sakura, can you explain why you have Expedience and Lowell so high up on your list?

Expedience posting when the whole CC thing came down felt towny (it felt genuine that he didnt expect a counter claim)
I liked Lowell's 1296 even tho i disagree with the conclusion.

[mhsmith0]

Sorry, I'm still just as happy as can be with my vote on Expedience. But I would also be happy to go back to Lowell.

Sakura, can you explain why you have Expedience and Lowell so high up on your list?

Expedience posting when the whole CC thing came down felt towny (it felt genuine that he didnt expect a counter claim)
I liked Lowell's 1296 even tho i disagree with the conclusion.

Can you go over what you liked from 1296/1297? It seemed super lazy to me, like he was building a narrative without bothering to check the facts on it.

He did defend that in

It's true. I read in ISO without really looking at context. It's what I do

but mainly on self-meta grounds. With that in mind, is there anyone here who is familiar with his meta? Does he really tend to do this? I could try and meta dive it but I'd rather just ask around first. Or if Lowell can point to specific examples of this in prior games without my having to dig around for it, that'd be helpful too.

[Dierfire]

@Garmr

I disagree that the case on me is compelling!
I believe that my 1231 should address most of the issues. I wasn't voting for Sakura Hana and I wasn't saying that we should lynch her--I was saying that we should lynch her

if we were having trouble deciding between her and Boonskiies, because lynching her would allow us to get both

.

@Sakura Hana

Dierfire One main question i have is why was numbers more important than keeping the ammount of townies and more importantly a potential PR (even tho it was a gambit) alive for scum to NK instead of getting rid of it together with boons.

When I referred to the point about numbers, I meant that we wouldn't lose a lynch if one Town player and one Mafia player died. If we'd had an odd number of players, then a vengeful shot would have exhausted one of our lynches. It is true that I wasn't thinking ahead to the night phase in that hypothetical scenario, but I wasn't committing to that scenario anyway.

But the whole point was you were town reading both why would you want both boon and sakura dead as town. Also if you thought that was a good idea to lynch two town reads why didn't you want to vote sakura. Is it because a vengeful town can only shoot what's on their wagon?

This seems to be a major disconnect from what I've been writing and I'm not exactly sure how to fix it. I guess that I'll ask you to read again, keeping in mind that I didn't vote for Sakura Hana?