Mini Normal 1775 END!

[Expedience]

I agree with Lowell about not seeing the link within Garmr and Texcat. Seems like a stretch from scum. I want to town read chilled, but I may be wrong about that. I've been thinking texcat is a scumfuck for a long time, especially right before Madonna got lynched, and Garmr I always think is scummy when he speaks. All this being said texcat should be lynched, haha. I want to figure out chilled and solidify what I feel on Garmr, and I think Tex is scum! Tex flipping scum, I would no longer think chilled is! Although, I just thought about a potential chilled/Garmr scum team...care of them if they are doing some kind of scum theater. Chilled pushing hard on Garmr yet not voting him is super suspish. Super suspish indeed.

VOTE: texcat

That's 4.

I am ready to vote for garmr as well. But you know, that would be "jumping wagons".

No but seriously, I am ok with Garmr lynch today if people are interested.

Yeah, do it!

[Expedience]

The ammount of possible night killing PRs doesnt even ammount only to roleblcoks and doctors, there's also bulletproof.
Why were you even assuming roleblock is the only possibility?

It's clearly because he's scum.

Yet, you're not voting him.

(CAN'T WAKE UP).png

[Expedience]

mhsmith0, I didn't really mean it like that and I don't think Sakura was afraid of a fast lynch. I just think that the way she approached the wagon was unnatural and forced. I was trying to make it into a story so people would listen to me (since people like stories), but it didn't work. Since people can easily disagree with "this sounds bad".

[mhsmith0]

Explain that joke. You're putting Madonna at L-1 as a "oh fine" sort of thing with a snarky "well done scum team" joke? Was this a suggestion Madonna and Lowell were scum team? Or that her lynch was orchestrated by scum?

The latter. I firmly believe scum redirected the Lowell lynch to Madonna, and there was no way to stop the town from shooting itself in the foot. The sad think is it's happening all over again, but I'm not going to be on this one.

And just to be on the clear: texcat is NOT my strongest town read. Not even close. But I've played with her and was warned she's a lynch bait often enough, yet we still went on and lynched her bc she still felt scummy, and guess what? She flipped town.

Let me get this straight: you voted someone whose lynch you did NOT believe in? To put her at L-1?

Was your strategy here to try and grab town cred because town!Madonna did the exact same dumb thing or did you have something else in mind?

[mhsmith0]

mhsmith0, I didn't really mean it like that and I don't think Sakura was afraid of a fast lynch. I just think that the way she approached the wagon was unnatural and forced. I was trying to make it into a story so people would listen to me (since people like stories), but it didn't work. Since people can easily disagree with "this sounds bad".

Fair enough. However, I thought that your narrative explanation was interesting enough to explore. And I wanted to make a clear counter-argument to the implication you made that the interaction suggested that scum!Sakura points to town!Knight. Because if I'm reading connections at all, it reads suggesting of scum-scum as an association.

[Expedience]

I agree with Lowell about not seeing the link within Garmr and Texcat. Seems like a stretch from scum. I want to town read chilled, but I may be wrong about that. I've been thinking texcat is a scumfuck for a long time, especially right before Madonna got lynched, and Garmr I always think is scummy when he speaks. All this being said texcat should be lynched, haha. I want to figure out chilled and solidify what I feel on Garmr, and I think Tex is scum! Tex flipping scum, I would no longer think chilled is! Although, I just thought about a potential chilled/Garmr scum team...care of them if they are doing some kind of scum theater. Chilled pushing hard on Garmr yet not voting him is super suspish. Super suspish indeed.

VOTE: texcat

That's 4.

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

First you say that you don't see a link, then you do? Or are you just trying to create one?

Do something that makes me think you're town, you're just sniping at people.

[mhsmith0]

I mean seriously, A50, YOU were the one who put her at L-1. ct can't quick-hammer her if you don't do that. So "good job scum team" doens't really work as an explanation for enabling what you felt like a mislynch. Just because town!Madonna pulled that stunt doesn't mean that it's anything other than fundamentally suspicious.

[Expedience]

mhsmith0, I didn't really mean it like that and I don't think Sakura was afraid of a fast lynch. I just think that the way she approached the wagon was unnatural and forced. I was trying to make it into a story so people would listen to me (since people like stories), but it didn't work. Since people can easily disagree with "this sounds bad".

Fair enough. However, I thought that your narrative explanation was interesting enough to explore. And I wanted to make a clear counter-argument to the implication you made that the interaction suggested that scum!Sakura points to town!Knight. Because if I'm reading connections at all, it reads suggesting of scum-scum as an association.

I think it's best to deal with that sort of thing after one of them flips. I think knightmare is town, and that's not because I think Sakura is scum trying to mislynch him.

[Boonskiies]

I agree with Lowell about not seeing the link within Garmr and Texcat. Seems like a stretch from scum. I want to town read chilled, but I may be wrong about that. I've been thinking texcat is a scumfuck for a long time, especially right before Madonna got lynched, and Garmr I always think is scummy when he speaks. All this being said texcat should be lynched, haha. I want to figure out chilled and solidify what I feel on Garmr, and I think Tex is scum! Tex flipping scum, I would no longer think chilled is! Although, I just thought about a potential chilled/Garmr scum team...care of them if they are doing some kind of scum theater. Chilled pushing hard on Garmr yet not voting him is super suspish. Super suspish indeed.

VOTE: texcat

That's 4.

Garmr, if you and texcat are scum together, bus your buddy now please. Texcat is scum, we can lynch you tomorrow instead of today, okay? See, if you think about it, I'm actually protecting you.

Chilled, if texcat flips town, I'm coming hard after you tomorrow.

First you say that you don't see a link, then you do? Or are you just trying to create one?

It's all reactions, buddy. No, I don't see a link between you two. But that doesn't mean you both aren't scum. To be fair, im not even really scum reading Garmr right now, and I'm just more focused on you and chilled right now.

[mhsmith0]

mhsmith0, I didn't really mean it like that and I don't think Sakura was afraid of a fast lynch. I just think that the way she approached the wagon was unnatural and forced. I was trying to make it into a story so people would listen to me (since people like stories), but it didn't work. Since people can easily disagree with "this sounds bad".

Fair enough. However, I thought that your narrative explanation was interesting enough to explore. And I wanted to make a clear counter-argument to the implication you made that the interaction suggested that scum!Sakura points to town!Knight. Because if I'm reading connections at all, it reads suggesting of scum-scum as an association.

I think it's best to deal with that sort of thing after one of them flips. I think knightmare is town, and that's not because I think Sakura is scum trying to mislynch him.

Agreed on the "don't really worry about it now" thing. But I wanted my take on the record in case it comes up later.

[texcat]

@Texcat:
Can you explain why exactly you're voting Lowell instead of chilledtea? In 617 you're telling ct specifically that his post is "crap", and then you cite two posts (consecutive) that basically suggest that ct and lowell are both hopping aboard the texcat wagon.

With that in mind, what made you sufficiently more suspicious of Lowell that you wanted to vote him instead of ct? It wouldn't be the fact that Lowell had a wagon yesterday, would it? As you say yourself, "Scummy is jumping on the wagon just because it's a wagon".

PS You say in 628 "Lowell doesn't explain any reason whatsoever". But for the most part neither does ct. The only additional vote-related commentary ct gives at the time is that he'd be cool with you or GLW. That's really not much.

PPS I'll be honest: I'm not high on Lowell OR ct right now. But I really struggle to see where YOU are seeing a difference, other than "Lowell has attracted more votes".

You are correct. ChilledTea and Lowell are at the top of my scum list. I can't vote for both of them, much as I'd like to. I picked Lowell primarily because he was the lynch candidate saved by Madonna. ChilledTea hammered in the middle of the night before Madonna had a chance to claim. I find that scummy. And I think that was to protect scum-mate Lowell.

[mhsmith0]

@Texcat:
Can you explain why exactly you're voting Lowell instead of chilledtea? In 617 you're telling ct specifically that his post is "crap", and then you cite two posts (consecutive) that basically suggest that ct and lowell are both hopping aboard the texcat wagon.

With that in mind, what made you sufficiently more suspicious of Lowell that you wanted to vote him instead of ct? It wouldn't be the fact that Lowell had a wagon yesterday, would it? As you say yourself, "Scummy is jumping on the wagon just because it's a wagon".

PS You say in 628 "Lowell doesn't explain any reason whatsoever". But for the most part neither does ct. The only additional vote-related commentary ct gives at the time is that he'd be cool with you or GLW. That's really not much.

PPS I'll be honest: I'm not high on Lowell OR ct right now. But I really struggle to see where YOU are seeing a difference, other than "Lowell has attracted more votes".

You are correct. ChilledTea and Lowell are at the top of my scum list. I can't vote for both of them, much as I'd like to. I picked Lowell primarily because he was the lynch candidate saved by Madonna. ChilledTea hammered in the middle of the night before Madonna had a chance to claim. I find that scummy. And I think that was to protect scum-mate Lowell.

I'm struggling to see your logic here.

1) In your mind, ChilledTea was explicitly acting scummy, especially given the "middle of the night" bit.
2) Madonna (town) saved Lowell from a lynch (in fact she explicitly acted to save him, though I certainly don't think she wanted to replace him).

How do these facts, in your own mind, lead you to think that Lowell is scummier than ChilledTea?


PS To clarify, here's where I am mentally. You're in a difficult situation as a lynch candidate, and I'm trying to decide if you're:

1) Looking for the easiest target (clearly Lowell, since he nearly got lynched on D1)
2) Looking for the honestly best scum read

#1 would be scum behavior (almost textbook). #2 would be town behavior. Convince me that you're at #2, because your responses are suggesting #1 instead.

[Sayaka Maizono]

God damn it, sorry. Uni got really busy all of a sudden.

I might be around this weekend

[ToastyToast]

Idk where this texcat wagon came from so I guess I have to catch up >.>

[Almost50]

Let me get this straight: you voted someone whose lynch you did NOT believe in? To put her at L-1?

Was your strategy here to try and grab town cred because town!Madonna did the exact same dumb thing or did you have something else in mind?

What town cred do I get from lynching town? It was 50% frustration with town yielding to scum, and the other 50% second guessing my own reads bc everyone else seemed to see something I didn't. If it was my own lynch I would've probably done the same -out of frustration- seeing how the Lowell wagon got decimated and redirected to Madonna despite all efforts. When I start doubting my reads I need a flip to give me confidence in them, lest I'm playing a really bad game (which is possible). Since there was no way to stop the Madonna lynch the way things were going, I decided to bring the day to an end rather than wait for a week to get the same person lynched anyway.

Mate, you will probably be next, or maybe I will. As long as the town keeps listening to scum reasoning rather than rely on their own there will always be bad lynches, but what bugs me the most is when it's obvious who is directing the show and we still go their way.

I'm not lynching outside of Boons, Lowell & Expedience today. You, Toasty, Garmr & Sakura are my town block for now, with town leans on texcat & GLW. chilled & Sayaka are on the fence for now.

Btw; it has become a site meta for scum to stall and delay lynches until everyone is bored to death. It doesn't help that town players neither push forward nor even consider lurking/active lurking grounds for suspicion leading to a lynch.

I'm sorry if I'm wandering outside the specifics of this very game, but it has become hard for even a PR with a guilty to push on their target w/o outright claiming. The town just won't listen. Like, what if I was the Cop and I got a guilty on either Lowell or Boons? (I'm NOT and I DON'T. It's just a hypothetical example). How am I supposed to convince you guys to lynch the guilty the way you're so vulnerable to scum manipulation?

[Almost50]

I mean seriously, A50, YOU were the one who put her at L-1. ct can't quick-hammer her if you don't do that. So "good job scum team" doens't really work as an explanation for enabling what you felt like a mislynch. Just because town!Madonna pulled that stunt doesn't mean that it's anything other than fundamentally suspicious.

First; that was not a quick hammer on Madonna. 17 hours is more than enough time.
Second; so what if she did come back & claim? Would a claim have saved her?? In an open setup.. maybe, but in a closed setup it's nothing to be a Universal Backup.

OK, let me put it like this: We need to stop talking about whose fault it was and start thinking about the situation at hand. You either suspect me now or you still believe in me. If the former, go ahead and lynch me. If the latter, let's find some mutual ground to stand on and move from. You blaming me, me blaming "them" won't solve the game anyway.

If we have a Cop they've got an innocent. If we have a Doctor; they also have one. Also a Town RB would have one. If we have a JailKeeper they've got someone they don't know whether they were the assigned killer or the target .. etc. etc.

So, at least let's combine our top 3 scum reads. Each and everyone should nominate 3 players for the lynch. This way -at least- we see who is reading whom as scum. The person with more suspicion on them gets lynched, but then if they flip we know who pushed them rather than who went for it out of boredom and frustration.

My nominees are: Boons; Lowell & Expedience. (I repeat to make it abundantly clear whom I'm expecting to flip scum). Care to share yours?

[Almost50]

I picked Lowell primarily because he was the lynch candidate saved by Madonna.

I very much support this notion. At one point Lowell was @ L-2, then the very next VC Madonna was @ L-1. It took us 12 hours to turn a 3/5 into a 6/3. And it wasn't like Madonna was confirmed scum either.

[Garmr]

n the middle of the night before Madonna had a chance to claim. I find that scummy. And I think that was to protect scum-mate Lowell.

Want to start a chilled wagon with me.

[mhsmith0]

@a50: honestly I'm not sure about you. You're not at the top of my list but you're definitively not sitting in my town reads.

So basically I AM still suspicious of you, but I'm not so suspicious of you that I want to lynch you right now. I'd like to get more from you to give me confidence in either a town or scum read. You're posting enough that I feel like I should have a solid opinion on you by now. But I don't.

Ps I feel like my #1 priority is figuring out where I stand on texcat: if I want in on her lynch or if I want to be against it. My other top two were Lowell and ct going into today, and if I'm against her lynch I'm probably for one of theirs. Its early enough in d2 that I don't feel I need to rush into a decision, but mentally that's where I am right now. Hopefully I see enough to solidify an opinion soon.

PPS to be clear, right now my top here are Tex, low, ct. Not sure what order.

[chilledtea]

My top two would be garmr, texcat. The third one isn't very strong - but if needed lowell.

[Garmr]

My top two would be garmr, texcat. The third one isn't very strong - but if needed lowell.

Can I ask why you think I am scum and it better not be because I voted you.

[Expedience]

So you can demolish his arguments, leaving you the sole victor and proud owner of Zero Well-Reasoned Scumreads? You can argue any stance, I'm sure.

[chilledtea]

My top two would be garmr, texcat. The third one isn't very strong - but if needed lowell.

Can I ask why you think I am scum and it better not be because I voted you.

You nitpicked my playstyle. If I don't ask more questions to texcat I am scum.

I absolutely cannot see that as reasonable from any angle. The discussion that was going on had something to do with the fact that texcat voted Madonna while giving similar reasons to Sakura on day 1. I found it fishy and decided to start the day with the vote on her. The situation reached a stalemate because she said she didn't notice Sakura Hana's reasons earlier on during day 1 and only saw it when she was going through Madonna's ISO. There was no way to verify this, so I stopped and decided to focus my attention to lowell. One of the ways I do it is by using my vote - anyone at that point using an argument that I was jumping wagons is a very big scumspect in my eyes. While I don't think you did that, texcat did.

Your argument that the only reason I could have removed my vote from texcat at the very early start of day 2 is because I town read her is wrong. It wasn't just a simple unvote - it was a transfer of vote to lowell.

By the way, I am pretty sure that among the few people who did try to engage lowell today, I was one of them.

Your vote hasn't got much to do with this.

[Garmr]

So you can demolish his arguments, leaving you the sole victor and proud owner of Zero Well-Reasoned Scumreads? You can argue any stance, I'm sure.

Someone sounds bitter I demolished their rushed together scum read.

[Expedience]

Truly endless salt.