Mafia 69: noXkill - Game over!

[Twomz]

I'm here . No random vote for me, i'm sticking to a low random diet this game .

[Twomz]

If two players have same number of votes lynch is decided by duel

. . . Ok . . . now my secondary goal that spans the entire remainder of the game (besides finding scum and puppies) is to get 2 people to tie by the deadline... >:D

[Twomz]

EBWOP:

>: D (messed up my evil smilie face )

[Twomz]

Vote: Karen

for crap logic... mainly the whole "scummy to give first random vote" thing.

[Twomz]

vote WhoMe

Not bolding votes - heinous crime.

Vote: whome?

Yes, you!

I wish i had a pund for eveytime someone used that in random voting. Hell I wish I had a pound for everytime YOU used that in random voting

vote WhoMe

1)

scummy to give the first random vote

;
2) thinks he was "random" voted (not paying attention to posts);
3) "not bolding votes - heinous crime."

Bolded and italicized for emphasis... and I left a "the" out... how does that make my "paraphrase" wrong?

Try reading your own post before you tell me to read it. And I try not to put "the" in front of everything anyway... that's probably why I didn't include it .

[Twomz]

OK... if you're going to nitpick I'm going to point two major facts out to you.

1) THIS GAME IS IN A THREAD! I'm not going to read the entire normal game forums, but I may read the entire THREAD. (The things in the thread are posts... at least you got that right).

2) IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT OTHERS POSTED WHEN I'M QUOTING YOU! I find that sentence, by itself, with no other context, scummy. I don't need to see other peoples responses to that comment to get it's context either. Only the post that it was directed at, which I took into consideration.

And your logic is anything but clear. If logic were quartz, your logic would be flint. All you're doing is throwing sparks at people. (Hurrah Geology and Boy Scouts!!)

[Twomz]

howz it going fellow nerds???

Making a note of it cause I have a feeling it won't be there long.

Btw, Dead Riku... um, just so you know that guy isn't in the game.

Now, back to our regular programming.

[Twomz]

Mith or Riku (or a Mod that I don't know) deleted the post. It was just a random idiot, posting where they shouldn't.

[Twomz]

I am continuing to vote karen because she has given me no reason to do otherwise. Instead of defending her actions, moving on, and improving her play, she is attacking her attackers, insulting the other players in the game, and giving up. The only way I'd unvote her is if she gets back on the ball or if she is replaced.

Btw, my posting will be sporadic at best this weekend.

[Twomz]

i will say again, i am a townie, and regardless if you are going to bandwagon me to death, i hope i have elicited enough conversation to make it much easier for my fellows in the long run.

THIS IS NOT HELPFUL.

Why are you referring to yourself in the third person? Are you really just giving up or do you think it is useful? Because it seems way to conceded for a person in your standing...

See y'all around this time tomorrow >.>

[Twomz]

I'm back.

I have seen no reason to unvote Karen, nor have I seen a better way to spend my vote.

I'll try to read the latest posts more thoroughly tomorrow, I drove too much to comprehend that much information accurately.

[Twomz]

Top 3 scummiest players...

I was going to do it, but I just can't concentrate hard enough right now . I'll try again later >.<

[Twomz]

Time between posts usually implies that the poster does not have much to say, or is busy. I for one was not prodded.

[Twomz]

You're defending Karen so adamantly it's ridiculous. I think that either a) you're scum with Karen, and that's why you're defending her, or b) you're scum and are trying to pick up Karen as a "pet townie". Add this to the fact that you are the only one who sees your logic, and

Major FoS: dybeck

. If I could vote for two people, I'd be voting for you.

QFT. The only difference in the post I see is that a few others are agreeing with dybeck. I concur with everything else though.

[Twomz]

There may be a few people who took advantage of the fact that Karen was acting strange and bandwagonned her, but the majority of the people voting for her are doing so because they think she is scum.

I am still voting for her because after 8 or so pages she has yet to make one post that makes me think "Wait a sec, there is a chance that she is town and may be a useful player in the game." All of her posts so far have said to me "I do not really care and I am just going to call people names until they unvote me, and now that dybeck and a few others are defending me, I am no longer need to post."

Confirm Vote: Karen

FoS: dybeck, green day

dybeck for reasons mentioned, green day for this post...

Unvote I think I'm passed voting for WhoMe? at the moment. I have a small FOS on Karen, for reasons stated above by Zoneface. Sorry I haven't been talking much, I don't have enough time to do a detailed inquiry at the moment.

Because as much as I would like for more people to vote for Karen... this just looks like a set up for an accidental hammer or something. Also the fact that he is "small FOS"ing based on someone elses logic.


UA is not posting much in the other game as well, he must be busy or something, I suppose he was prodded with the others.

[Twomz]

Confirm Vote: Karen

CKD, he did not really say that it was fun for the scum, more that it was fun for the game as a whole (amirite?). Also, I take that as a she is not going to get replaced gesture...

[Twomz]

A Jester is a role which wins when they are lynched. They generally cause difficulty for the Town in two ways. First, because (while the Jester is alive) they aim to prevent the Town from lynching Scum. Second, because their attempts to get themselves lynched inevitably involve trying to convince the Town that they are Scum, and thereby cause confusion and distraction for as long as they are alive.

If a Jester is lynched before any other faction has won, the game will usually continue to determine second place.

Often a Jester role also involves a Post Restriction, so that it is not too easy for the Jester to get themelves lynched.

A variation of this role is the Kamikaze or Suicide Bomber, where the player that casts the deciding vote dies along with the lynchee.

^^^

[Twomz]

Gonna check over the thread later and I will posts thoughts then.

[Twomz]

Wolfsbane is immune to death from wolves and I believe there is a parallel role that is immune to mafia (do not know what it is called). If this "balanced" setup continues to it's logical conclusion, there is a probably a pair of cops, docs and possibly even vigs to target both scum groups.

If the roles are split up that way I have one thing to say.

IF YOU ARE IN A DUALISTIC ROLE, DO NOT SAY WHICH SIDE YOU AFFECT

. Especially if there are more wolfsbane's and mafia counterparts out there.

BTW, the lack of a third NK leads to several conclusions (feel free to add to the list if I miss one). First off I must note that we were informed of who did the actual killing. Thus...
- If there is a SK, their kill was blocked, or they do something besides normal NKs (not very likely with the setup).
- There is a normal vig who did not have to attack or was stopped by the doc (also, imo, not very likely with what I have seen so far).
- There are 2 faction specific vigs. If this is true the scum groups are probably larger than we first thought because unlike the rest of the town, these 2 roles would be able to just concentrate on finding patterns between specific scum groups after one has died, and can clear players of being in that faction. (The more I think of it the less likely this option is)
- There is a 1 shot vig (or two). I suppose time will tell on this one... likely to have some kind of 1 shot vig especially if there are low numbers of other town power roles.


In conclusion, I do not think we can realistically count on vigs to appear unless we receive information (ie a NK) that contradicts that conclusion.

On split doc/cops, I do not think discussing numbers or situations with them would be relevant or wise until we get more information.

People I think were suspicious yesterday.
Green Day: Was pushing for karen's death without voting for her. Also kept trying to point fingers at people who were voting for her while saying that she was acting suspicious. Looked like he wanted karen lynched, but also wanted us to mainly focus on the people on her wagon, and stayed out of the crossfire by letting others vote for her instead of doing it himself.

DavidAngelSummers: I do not like the cut of his jib, if that makes any sense. Jumped on karen, then jumped off onto karma, then kinda lurked for the rest of the day. Do not know if he is scum... just suspicious behavior.

dybeck: Just cause.

Everyone that voted for Karen (including myself). Just because there is a good chance that one or two are opportunistic scum. After a brief overview of posts, I was not really able to pick anyone out, but I am sure we will be able to find some from there later.

Vote: Green Day

[Twomz]

A mystical plant that protects you from werewolves (and in some fantasy I read a while ago, dragons too... weird eh?)

[Twomz]

Hai guys, posting this in all my games.

This morning my lappy would not turn on, I went to get it checked out and either the video card ($300 to fix) or the motherboard ($600) are broken. I do not have that kind of money, therefore I will be using college compies to access games in my extra time. My playing may be sporatic and I may not have time to make long meaningful posts for a while. I am working on the situation and will inform y'all whenever I have fixed the problem.

-Twomz

[Twomz]

Hai guys, posting this in all my games.

This morning my lappy would not turn on, I went to get it checked out and either the video card ($300 to fix) or the motherboard ($600) are broken. I do not have that kind of money, therefore I will be using college compies to access games in my extra time. My playing may be sporatic and I may not have time to make long meaningful posts for a while. I am working on the situation and will inform y'all whenever I have fixed the problem.

-Twomz

Lol! my comp broke about 10 days ago, the only internet access i have now is my school and my friend house so i wasn't been on much lately too. I actually got prodded on one other i game i play "sigh" but I think my comp should be back soon since i hear it was fixed from my big brother's friend.

I am going to get a new one later today, then I get to pay my parents back later (and spend 10-12 hours over the next week DLing software ).

[Twomz]

Tar replaced in... do not remember for whom though.

My vote will stay on GreenDay for now, but I will be watching cephrir because the case against him is valid (I just think the case against greenday is more convincing, also his reaction to the vote... although cephrir has a vote on dybeck... hmmm).

I would be happy if either of them were lynched.

It finally occured to me that I may have been thinking wrong. Theo would have been an obvious target for the lynch today (Day 2) if he'd have been left alive. This is bad for the wolves AND for the mafia. Both sides want the other side lynched during the day. It's in their best interests to kill off the scummy players unless they legitimately think their NK choice is the other side. Just something to think about.

This is a very good point.


Lastly we have some inactive players that need to post more. Please?

[Twomz]

Sorry... not lurking... been out of town since Saturday without proper net access...

FOS: davidangelsummers

. Lynch all liars. That's not his girlfriend - I've seen that picture before in a Scandinavian porn video i used to own.

PWNED

[Twomz]

I am feeling better about my vote on green day with each useless post he is making. If he gets another vote or two I will unvote him though to avoid a quicklynch for today.

@ Green Day: If you are wondering why people keep voting you take this into consideration...
1) After you unvoted Karen you continued to say she was suspicious, agreed with peoples suspicions on her and FOSed her while keeping a useless vote on. This is implied voting... or voting without putting a vote on someone. It is a way to try to get someone lynched without voting for them.
2) While you were pushing for Karen's lynch, you were pointing fingers at the people who were actively voting for her. Hypocrisy at its finest.
3) After I posted my suspicions of you, your first reaction was to say, I did not do that, that does not make sense OMGUS VOTE TWOMZ. This is not the kind of defense a townie would take... this is the kind of defense a scum would take.
4) You are still OMGUSing the people voting for you. They are voting you for good reasons that you have not even acknowledged and you are saying that because they are voting for you, that they are scum. This is the exact same kind of thought process that made Karen seem so scummy and makes for bad townspeople.
5) You have yet to make any actual accusations or post any actual content so far, thus you are useless. If you are town, stop being such a little baby, buck it up, and post actual logic that will help us find werewolves and mafia, if you do that then people will unvote you... trying to draw attention from yourself onto the people voting for you is just going to cause more people to vote for you.


It would be a good idea if everyone were to post thoughts on cephrir and green day, being as they seem to be the top candidates for today. Especially people who are lurking need to step up and post, this is getting ridiculous folks >.<

@ Dead Riki: May the players prod other nonactive players? Maybe having half a dozen new messages every time they log on will make them post more?

[Twomz]

Green Day is at -2 to lynch, if someone puts him at 1 to hammah, I will unvote him for now. The fact that he is not defending himself makes me want to just leave my vote on though... however, we have several lurkers and inactive players that we need to take care of too. Since I am actually in class right now, I cannot do a full post right now >.< I will do a check on activity and do a review of a few key players/events later tonight (probably pretty late... possibly mid afternoon if I get the chance).


POST MOAR PLZ!

[Twomz]

Hello, I am here >.< anyone else?

[Twomz]

Also, I have to say that these posts by ChocolateAttack and DavidAngelSummers seem very odd:

Can someone else unvote greenday ..hes a bit to close..I cant as I said I would not unless he came up with something concrete..and tag team Dybeck and Ckd will have my neck...

No problem! i take my vote off Green Day for the time being since i want to hear more from him and a quick lynch is now bad for the town.

Unvote

I don't think there is any thing odd about my post and DAS since i think DAS was right about Green Day being too close to lynch. The longer the day time is the better for the town to be more precise in chosing their vote so i didn't want the day to end too quick and make another mistake like Karen. And what make you so sure that Green Day is scum.

about DAS didn't unvote Green Day, i

foms

this because it indeed odd but he has his reason so i guess it up to you to believe him or not.

Here's how it looked to me. DAS thinks Green Day is getting too many votes, but he chooses not to take his own vote off. Instead, he asks someone else to unvote. That was odd. Not incredibly scummy, but odd.

Then you come along and immediately comply to his request. It kind of seemed like you were buddying up to him...or possibly even taking orders. Either way, it just seemed odd.

This post has merit... possibly merit badges...

But Green Day has still not replied adequately to the case against him for me to believe that he is not scum, so my vote remains. However, we should not rush this day just because everyone agrees that he is scummy. The other main discussion points are Cephrir and some of the activity on the GD wagon.

Cephrir... I am not sure about. I can see why he would appear scummy, but I do not think the case against him is really that strong. It is worth keeping an eye on him though.

Points of the Cephrir case so far... um...

Oh yeah, I totally forgot Cephrir was scum.

unvote, vote: Cephrir

Vote 1) Case made yesterday?

For some reason this really hits me as a scum trying to act like a town. Dummy, CKD was right, karen was a town.

vote: Cephrir

Vote 2) Scum trying to act like town... (can you elaborate on how this is different from town acting like town?)

After 2nd vote, Cephrir OMGUSs dybeck citing the same reason as dybeck did (basically).

wow, I dont know what is more astounding, that you actually posted that case, or that you think the town might actually believe it. I think you are scum, and you are trying to get another fast town lynch Day 2...hopefully the town will learn from Day 1..

unvote, vote cephrir

I still find davdangelsummers scummy..lets see how long he lurks.

Vote 3) Reason for voting dybeck scummy.

My opinion is that it was almost the same as dybeck's vote for cephrir, but with added OMGUS... so I will assume that you are voting him for OMGUSing dybeck.

I do agree with you on that point. I was making those observations as well. But I agree with Karma that Cephrir has been kinda lurky and not explaining his case. Until he comes out of the shadows I'm going to vote: Cephrir.

Vote 4) The "point" in question is that some of the people voting GD were on the Karen wagon, and people on Cephrir were not. Vote is for lurking and not explaining his case against his target (CKD unless I am mistaken at this point, all the finger pointing is confusing me).


BTW, this is the "case" dybeck made against cephrir yesterday

Who'll join me on a Cephrir bandwagon?

I think that all those not on the Karen bandwagon will understand why.

unvote, vote: Cephrir

Dybeck, could you please post the reasons for the people that were on the Karen wagon?

Killerbob's post 462 seems to be the main case against him (made by the last guy to join the wagon... odd, imo). Cephrir's answer was that he changed his mind /shrug && sigh.


Basically, we are waiting for green day to post proper response to the case against him, but because of the scummy behavior recently on the back end of the wagon, it is likely that he will be able to lurk through it and the wagon will be stigmatized anyway. There are also too many players coasting and not posting, or when they do post not even trying to post content.

I will look into DAS, Zoneace, CA and the lurkers after we get some actual responses from Green Day. I will keep my eye on Cephrir as well.

[Twomz]

dybeck, you are missing the big picture. The scum are not trying to lynch town. There are two scum groups that can only successfully NK town aligned players, and cannot kill each other. The scum are going to be looking for the other scum group. What we are looking for is small groups of players that vote together, and have a tendency to vote more for one scum group over the other. Townie lynches do not really help either side... unless it was a claimed wolfsbane and the wolves wanted to lynch him, or some other scenario like that. If scum ARE trying to lynch town, then they are going to do it opportunistically, and only when they have no clue on who is on the other scum team.

Also, still waiting on Green Day.

Also, Happy Birthday Kison.

[Twomz]

If Green Day were to respond, I might mind lynching him. It is starting to look like that is not the case though.

I really do not like the idea of lynching him right now though, we still have things we can discuss.

[Twomz]

Dead Riki, I am sure that you have prodded Green day already... is he getting them and just not posting? Or has he not even been picking them up?

At this point I can see three things happening. Either Green Day does not start posting again and he gets a free pass for today (unacceptable behavior and mindset imo) in which case most likely cephrir will get the most attention, he does not start posting again and we lynch him (the more he does not post the better this seems, although it frustrates me that he is not posting), or Green Day starts posting and we can get some conversation and information flowing.

[Twomz]

>.< Did not think of that. Could not really expect the replacement to respond eh? I guess that we would have to move on in that case.

Personally, I believe lynching would be better than replacing, because I think he is doing it on purpose. But that is probably just me. And we still have lots of time left in the day to discuss it, so it should not be THAT pressing... although we need another topic of conversation if he is not going to speak up.

[Twomz]

I agree that if you think someone is the "most scummy" person in the game you should vote for them, especially if you do not have a vote on anyone.

[Twomz]

A "I am here, but I am busy and cannot do a real post right now" post would be appreciated Green Day >.<

Being busy and saying so is understandable. Just forgetting about a game is not (imo).

[Twomz]

I think Greenday needs to be replaced and Cephrir should hang

I agree, except replace "hang" with "be bandwagoned until we can decide definitively if he is scum or town".

[Twomz]

unvote

It appears as though dead is looking for a replacement for Green Day in the queue thread. I will give the replacement a chance to post before I move my vote (also, I will be gone all day today so I will not be able to do a good analysis of anyone until then)

[Twomz]

@ Thorn: Sorry you have to replace into so much suspicion. I will however have an eye on you until you slack my suspicions.

Until thorn posts...

To keep the game going- Cephrir, could you explain your case against Dybeck?

I too would like to hear this.

Thirded

[Twomz]

I think that Greenday made a valid case that those who wagoned karen should be watched. Since she was Town, that makes sense and considering he defended karen throughout it highly unlikely his actions seemed scummy. His logic makes sense and it must be analyzed to who and at what time joined the karen wagon.

RED FLAG

You obviously read wrong... or are not paying attention at all. Green Day voted Karen, then unvoted and said to watch the people on her wagon... while continuing to say that she was acting suspicious and scummy.

[Twomz]

(sorry for double post)

Damn I fail at tags >.>

Mod note:

That's because the tag is "color", not "font".
Anyway, I fixed for you.

*sends Twomz U$10,00 bil*

[Twomz]

*sends Twomz U$10,00 bil*

I have non idea wtf that is suppose to mean.

[Twomz]

I am sorry dybeck and CKD... but I disagree. Karen was even worse than mafia, because she was distracting the town. If we had lynched someone else, I would still be pushing for her lynch today just to get her out of the way. At the very least I would want her replaced.

But I do agree that there were probably some scum on the wagon, just like we know that several of the people that were on it were town. If we were to divide the town into a Pro Karen Lynch section and an Opposed to Karen Lynch section... both would have town and mafia/wolves in them.

I suppose we are waiting for cephrir's dybeck case and thorn's opinion on the game?

[Twomz]

Guys, i just learn something cool today by a fellow mafia player. If u scroll all the way down to under the preview and submit boxes, there is a drop down menu that allow you to read all the post that made by a particular player in this game. It extremely helpful if you look into someone.

I hope that is sarcasm... although I do not know why would need to say it...

[Twomz]

Ceist la vee.

...? C'est la vie?

Also

Kanga just kept trying to get the game moving.

How exactly is this suspicious? I would say the opposite would be true (stalling). If you meant trying for a quick lynch that is one thing... but just getting the game moving is not suspicious behavior imo.

[Twomz]

Twomz: Waiting for Thorn is a little bitter, but very nutritive.

WTF? Nutritive?

[Twomz]

Scumbuddies are linked together by agreement.

I disagree... this would be a classic case of "all the eggs in one basket." It is more likely that they just see things in the same light and have similar thought processes/experiences.


I do not agree that just because dybeck was against the Karen lynch he is scummy. He may have blown things out of proportion at times, but just because someone disagrees with you does not make them scum.

That being said, I think you might be grasping for straws trying to attack dybeck. It is like you OMGUSed and now you are trying to pull a case out of midair to back it up. Although I did not quite get everyone else's case against you earlier, I do see now why they would find you suspicious.

BTW, Happy B-day

vote: Cephrir

However, I am still waiting on a response from Thorn... and am hoping for more input, especially from the group at the tail end of the Green Day/Thorn wagon.

[Twomz]

Also, he is taking both sides of two people who are attacking each other, and FOSing the guy that just replaced someone and has not even posted really yet (still waiting Thorn ).

[Twomz]

Activity is appreciated.... /sigh.

[Twomz]

I am still waiting on Thorn and I found Cephrir's post of his reasons for being suspicious of dybeck suspicious.

[Twomz]

Does anyone have anything to say at this point? I am close to just voting Thorn just to get the day over with.

Thoughts?

Actions?

Posts? Both in general and with substance?

[Twomz]

@ dybeck: There is no point arguing about it now, Thorn has been lynched already /sigh.

[Twomz]

I think we need to lynch a male, because lynching females obviously is not going to work >.>

I could see a zoneace or Cephrir lynch today. I will look over the game later today when I have more time (going to eat now).

[Twomz]

Honey, please read my posts.

I'm voting you for your clear opportunism in ending the day as quickly as you did, when it was clear that more discussion was required. I believe you did it to save your scumbuddy from lynch.

While I agree that more discussion was needed... I also want to point out that there was no discussion, nor was there any indication that there would be discussion.

[Twomz]

ZONEACE (1) - dybeck
Cephrir (1) -curiouskarmadog
curiouskarmadog (1) - Cephrir
dybeck (1) - ZONEACE

This is highly productive BTW >.>

Zoneace - On the Karen wagon, and attacked lurkers and OMGUSed on Day 1 (dybeck and CKD). Repeatedly said that we were going to probably lynch a townie day 1 and that while there was a chance that Karen was a bad player, she was still the scummiest one so far. Day 2 continued to attack dybeck and CKD also attacks Greenday. Has been mainly OMGUSing and jumping on the biggest bandwagons.

Dybeck - Unreasonably defensive on Karen (imo) and continually attacks people that were on her wagon (mainly Cephrir and Zoneace right now). Agreed with the Greenday lynch (in fact, pointed out the scummy behavior Day 1) but disagreed with the way the day ended (IE, people voting w/o thorn defending herself). I can understand this last part, and I don't really find dybeck all that scummy.

Cephrir - Stated my thoughts on him yesterday. Still need to say that I believe his reactions to the case(s) against him makes me think he is scum more than the actual case(s) against him. In other words, he reacted scummily to bad cases (sry, but that is the way I see it).

CKD - Points out that Karen wagon is a little too easy. His 8th post may need looking into more (about WhoMe?'s metagaming). Pointed out several of the people voting for Karen, but does not follow up on must. Mainly attacks Cephrir for day 2 and promotes a greenday replacement.


Now, there is a pretty good chance that some of these people are scum. But, the chance that all of them are scum is pretty much nil (although if they were actually 4 scum, 2 from each team... that would be the most ridiculous thing ever).

I just want to point out to all 4 of you that the scum in this game are not going to be trying to lynch townies... they will simply NK the protown players. They will be concentrating on finding and lynching members of the opposing team.

[Twomz]

@ Zone: I consider anyone who attacks the person that is attacking them OMGUSing. I believe you AND cephrir are both OMGUSing, you are looking at dybeck and CKD and saying to yourselves "This person disagrees with me, and is attacking me for disagreeing with them! They must be of the opposite alignment as me." and attacking them. I seriously doubt this logic is going to get us very far.

[Twomz]

I am going to go ahead and

vote: Cephrir

for reasons listed previously.

I could also see a Zoneace wagon as well. Dybeck probably is not scum and I dunno about CKD.

So now we just need for everyone to post (lol?)

[Twomz]

I

listed reasons yesterday and today and out of the four main cases I decided it would be best to pursue Cephrir.

[Twomz]

@ Cephrir: Well, you did use it and it was not a very good argument and he called you on it. The end goal of every vote is to lynch, that is why votes and bandwagons put pressure on players, if there was no consequence then there would be no power behind the vote. If a player is lynched and you had a vote on them, you lynched them. The only way to say that you did not want a person lynched would be to either not vote or unvote them.

And you cannot say that you "refuted" someone else's arguments. You "think" you refuted them, or you "attempted" to refute them. It is up to the other players to decide if you did an adequate job defending yourself.

However, I do see the straw-manning argument somewhat.

Also, I never noticed a case against myself, from either Cephrir or Thinktank... and big posts do not necessarily mean good cases. So far I have not seen a good case in the game... but the best one so far is against Cephrir (thus my vote).

[Twomz]

Lynch = a person getting the majority of votes. The people who voted for the person that was lynched are the people who Lynched the person, some may even say that the entirety of the town is responsible... but the people who actually voted for the person cannot shrug off the responsibility.

[Twomz]

No, it is not just your fault, it is Karen's fault along with everyone who voted for her (including me).

[Twomz]

Mind your manners? Mind if I put my hand here? Mind if I smoke? Mind if I slap you for saying yes? Mind if I post content?

[Twomz]

never said it was just his fault...and he knows that for he quoted me when I said, that people on the Karen lynch were scum or simple minded (easily lead)..

right now, he is trying to bide some sympathy by saying that I said it was just his fault..never have I said that..all he said was that he didnt lynch her..which is a lie

Day 2 he thought greenday/thorn was scum, but wants the town to believe he didnt care if we lynched him or not...which is a lie.

he says I am blatantly lying, when I prove him wrong, he ignores it...he continues lying....I think this town NEEDS to listen to me for once..

if I am wrong come after me tomorrow, but I doubt I will live through the night.

Mightt we further add that if we were to lynch CKD for being wrong, to follow up with a dybeck lynch, as he has basically puppy-dog followed along with everything CKD has said.

Na, they have just been pretty agreeably with each other. Dybeck has put forth some stuff that CKD has agreed with and vice versa. It is more likely that they just think similarly in mafia games.

[Twomz]

He does have a point. Twomz, you should at least point out which reasons you agree with. If you've done so, please refer a post where you have done so?

Scumbuddies are linked together by agreement.

I disagree... this would be a classic case of "all the eggs in one basket." It is more likely that they just see things in the same light and have similar thought processes/experiences.


I do not agree that just because dybeck was against the Karen lynch he is scummy. He may have blown things out of proportion at times, but just because someone disagrees with you does not make them scum.

That being said, I think you might be grasping for straws trying to attack dybeck. It is like you OMGUSed and now you are trying to pull a case out of midair to back it up. Although I did not quite get everyone else's case against you earlier, I do see now why they would find you suspicious.

BTW, Happy B-day

vote: Cephrir

However, I am still waiting on a response from Thorn... and am hoping for more input, especially from the group at the tail end of the Green Day/Thorn wagon.

My reason is in bold.

[Twomz]

ooba: CKD is scum because of craplogic. Over and over. And also the reason you stated which is also perfectly valid.

More importantly, I'm not going to try anymore.

CKD continues to be stupid, and I can see that I am going to be lynched today regardless of what I say. Any more effort I put into this game is a waste of time. Parting words for the town:

First off, and less importantly, I believe Tar has a very good suspect in Kanaga. He may be a good lynch target later in the game (tomorrow is reserved).

Most importantly, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT LET CKD CRAPLOGIC HIS WAY OUT OF THIS.

He volunteered to be lynched tomorrow if he is wrong about me. Well, he is. I am a vanilla townie. So PLEASE LYNCH CKD TOMORROW.

That is all.

1) Giving up is not pro-town.
2) Setting up lynches is scummy... but if you turn up scum we will know better anyway, so lynching you before the proposed lynch negates the scummy... I think?

[Twomz]

WhoMe brings up a good point CKD.

I will be out of town tonight, tomorrow, and most of sunday, but when I get back I will hopefully be able to post a case on someone.

[Twomz]

HMMM... I am this [] close to voting CKD just to see the claim... but I want to hear it before I decide if I should put my vote on him >.<

Of course, offering yourself up in order to get a player lynched, then attacking those who call you on it is a fairly large scum tell imo. The hint at inside information... while I can understand that as theorizing (and you would not know the size of the other group as well, could be one large with no abilities and one small with abilities) it still does not sit to well with me.

On second thought, I will

vote: CKD

, because I have nothing else at this point (tiring weekend).

[Twomz]

I agree with Cicero.

Quicklynch = bad. Wait for CKD to post before putting another vote on him.

[Twomz]

/waits for Cephrir...

Maybe I should start looking around so that we can discuss other players in case a quick lynch comes up /sigh.

[Twomz]

/waits for Cephrir...

you mean CKD right? cause well, Ceph was lynched yesterday

That's right... I get names confused that start with the same letter sometimes /blush. If I am talking about a living character and say Cephrir, I mean CKD >.<


/waits for CKD

.

[Twomz]

...CKD....

WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU JUST CLAIM PROTECTIVE ROLE!?!?!?!?!

There was no reason for you to say sorcerer (obviously protection from wolves) although it could have possibly been deduced that dybeck had the other side of the role with the doc, but until you claimed sorcerer I personally was assuming that doc was general protection from both scum groups /facepalm.

VERY BAD PLAYING (if you are town).

Now, I see a few possible outcomes (differing from peers generalizations).

1) CKD is a good guy
a) Dybeck could only protect from mafia every even night, and there is another anti mafia role out there to balance.
b) Dybeck could protect from mafia every night, and the balance lies in the fact that there was a townie that the wolves couldn't kill (UA) and a townsman that could protect from wolves every other night (CKD?).
c) The game is unbalanced in the protective roles from each scum group and instead is balanced with other possible roles (cop(s), wolf hunter(s), ect).
2) CKD is a bad guy
a) CKD is mafia making a gamble to draw out wolves. The claim he made would immediately draw fire from the wolves, who would be unable to kill him. Then they would have to find a way to get him lynched, and that would expose the wolves to the town and the mafia (at least 1, possibly more).
b) CKD is a wolf. Then, he is pretty much an idiot unless he believes that the person the wolves targeted last night was mafia and is going to say that that is who he protected on Night 3 to hint that that player is mafia without directly exposing himself.


I think the most likely possibilities are 1a and 2b. But that is more gut feeling than based on anything really . The way that he claimed (said sorcerer instead of protective role, did not say who he had protected, and tried at least a little to stall claiming) makes me think that he is indeed scum though, so I will leave my vote on CKD.

[Twomz]

On second thought... I might unvote CKD just because it would be nice to converse with people who actually read the thread >.<

*cough Zoneace/Kison/Peers cough*

[Twomz]

I have been in games where there were roles that would alternate on even and odd nights. I have seen double SKs where one is on odd, one on even. And I vaguely remember Docs and Cops having similar splits (it allows for the town power roles to be spread out over several players, but not overly powerful).

The problem is not if it is possible for an odd/even only power, it is if it is probable for the setup. I wish we could clarify dybeck's role better that would help a lot.

In fairness, not that testing a Doc claim is all that easy anyway.

This does not make the claim any more or less likely to be true >.<

[Twomz]

You never did, although you never said specifically that you only guard against wolves, you did say you were a sorcerer, which is a wolf only protection.

WhoMe is makin up animals .

[Twomz]

MOD just in case it has not been asked yet... what happens if all the town dies and the scum groups are equal in number?

I cannot decide what is worse, lurkers, people who just argue and don't post content, or people who have no idea what is going on and seem to be incapable of reading and comprehending posts... I will separate out the people into the three groups after I am done with class /sigh.

[Twomz]

That would be an internal wager actually, so it would be acceptable. They would have to bet on who would win BEFORE the game for it to be an outside wager.

[Twomz]

Actually, you were at -2... and I think you know that. Nice attempted gambit there CKD, now I think you are scum more than ever.

<- still voting for CKD.

[Twomz]

unvote

Wow... either you are both telling the truth or both scum... geez. CKD, if you are town, that is one of the worst plays I have ever seen... trying to hammer yourself as a protective role... at least soak up the NK to stop it from hitting an investigative role, geez. Stop doing stupid shit.

@ Ooba: I don't know if I should thank you or yell at you... but the only reason I am unvoting CKD is because I have seen no reason to think you are scum.

If they live will just be a huge WIFOM case so I am not even going to think about it right now. If one dies the other is either cleared or condemned.

Now I just need to figure out who is the next most likely person to be scum... I wish one of the people that has been lurking and not taking stances would finally take a stance, because the majority (made up of many vocal players) has been wrong every time so far. I am tempted to vote for WhoMe just out of shear bandwagonness... but will refrain from doing so at this time. Instead I will attempt a reread. Brb.

[Twomz]

THERE IS NEVER EVER A REASON TO HAMMER YOURSELF AS TOWN

And remember that I thought you were lying, so if you wanted to "soak up the NK" in the NoXKill mafia game.... I viewed that as just wanting another couple of nights alive. Since Ooba claimed, and I have no reason so far to believe that he is scum, the chances that you were lying goes down. You have to understand that it was bad play IF YOU ARE TOWN. If you are scum, it would be a gambit or a way to reduce the information the town has for the day, so it would be a positive move from that position.

Do you understand what I am trying to say?

[Twomz]

In normal play, a wolvesbane is unkillable by the wolves and completely killable by the mafia. I researched all this stuff for Mafia 63. Its corresponds to Bulletproof Vest, which is unkillable by mafia bullets but bleeds from werewolf jaws to the throat just fine.

I believe that this is an accurate assumption.

[Twomz]

Tar, if you are going to claim, claim. If you just hint at a role openly, you will just get NKed w/o revealing anything important.

WTF is up with this game day? Geez.

[Twomz]

He already said that "the flavor I received", that is the same as someone dying then one player saying, "but that should not have gone through...". It is as good as claiming, but being very vague.

Tar needs to either clarify what he meant by saying that, or give us something useful.

[Twomz]

The likelyhood of another wolf blocking role is... well, very very low.

vote: peers

Is there anything else we need to talk about today before the lynch is over? Peers is at -2.

[Twomz]

unvote

Wait for Tar to answer CKD's question before finishing peers off.

[Twomz]

I am leaving this afternoon for ren faire... man, I wish I had internet access, the game is finally picking up! I will be back Sunday.

[Twomz]

Yeah, Peers' claimed Mafia target is totally BS. It's not like the outed scum is fooling anyone. If he was telling the truth, CKD would be very dead right now... which he is not.

Wouldn't ooba like friends right about now?

LOCK ON: Peers

Tar stop trying to protect your wolf buddies by acting like you still are a 'Watcher' (and Hence paint us 2 sorcerers more scummy in the town's mind)... Heres a recap

Night 2
ooba(killerbob) protects CKD
doc protects CKD
Mafia (Peers) hit CKD

Night 3
Wolf (You) hit Peers
CKD protects ooba

Day 4
CKD has to claim ...
You see he saved me so you know Peers has to be scum
You invent a roleclaim
Breadcrumb the false roleclaim when voting for CKD
But i claimed saving CKD from lynch
So you used the opportunity to claim and outed peers ..
Peers is outed . But in the process , he outed you ...

You are the Day 5 lynch .. No doubt in my mind ..

I am leaving in a few minutes, but this pretty much sums up what I think.

It is VERY possible that dybeck protected CKD.

Peers is today's lynch, then Tar tomorrow (at this point he is obviously lying).

I am somewhat doubtful about CKD AND OOBA being wolves too.

We have no reason not to trust peers, he wants the wolves lynched just as much as the town does. /shrug Well, now I am glad we almost ran up CKD today, ended up w/ a double scum find . I am going soon, so I will leave it to the town to finish peers off when y'all are ready. No reason to rush a sure lynch.

GL.

[Twomz]

Okay, so... either the person we targetted last night was a wolf, or he was protected by the doc.

The problem is, if we just come out and name him, it's possible for someone to fake-claim the Doc and say they protected him.

How would the town like to solve this problem, before I do The Big Reveal?

Yes, let's reveal all the anti mafia roles to the mafia before you give us the information which we cannot guarantee is authentic.... /sarcasm.

Vote: Peers

It is in both scum groups best interests to get rid of the other group, but there is no reason Peers should live through today. If he wants to live as a mafia informant for the town to find the wolves... well too bad, we cannot afford to give them that kind of advantage as they pick off town and wolves with their numbers intact.

[Twomz]

Nah. It's time for the big reveal.

I'm the bulletproof vest.

Kisses and hugs everybody.

That was probably a bad idea.

Here is how I see things, we can lynch peers, or we can lynch the mafia's target from last night.

While getting free info on the wolves sounds good... I don't think we should trust a mafiaso so easily. I think peers is the correct lynch for today.

[Twomz]

I still say we shouldn't trust peers... but I am fine with a DAS lynch for information. It kinda rubs me the wrong way that we know we have a mafiaso and aren't lynching them. But, I guess that is just me.

I agree with Zoneace that we should wait for everyone to post before ending the day.

[Twomz]

I still say we shouldn't trust peers... but I am fine with a DAS lynch for information. It kinda rubs me the wrong way that we know we have a mafiaso and aren't lynching them. But, I guess that is just me.

I agree with Zoneace that we should wait for everyone to post before ending the day.

And no reply to those who think you might be a wolf and should be tested by the mafia tonight?

Fine by me, that just means Peers will die tomorrow instead of today.

[Twomz]

Not really, I just don't want to let a known scum live. I do understand the reasons behind it... but that doesn't mean that I think it is a good idea >.>.

[Twomz]

Vote: Peers

WhoMe? got raped pretty hard... but that means there is still at least one wolf alive.

[Twomz]

I think your second setup is the most likely one (there wouldn't be a backup wolfsbane). It is also still possible for a cop or seer to be around, but I would think they would have come out by now unless they have just had really bad luck picking out targets (all innocent and/or killed at night).

And I'm working on a meta-theory. First person that posts is the scum.

My meta-theory on the subject is the first person that posts is the first person that saw the thread up >.>

Someone has to post, and there is a percentage chance that it is scum, but since if the scum outnumber the town they win (except with two scum groups of course, but I still doubt we are at that level now) it is always more likely that TOWN will be the first to post.... noob.

[Twomz]

EBWOP:

Yes, and Cicero's role as well on the first setup... still think there might be another set of roles out there, else there is a LOT of townies in this game.

[Twomz]

ZONEACE (YogurtBandit)
TheHermit (ChocolateAttack)
Kison
IH (thinktank)
Kanaga (FeRnAnDo)

These are the 5 suspects (in my eyes, since there I have not role claimed or been cleared, everyone else should be looking at me as well) imho. I think the most likely wolf out of the group is TheHermit... because of the incidents earlier in the game between him and DAS and just... well, a gut feeling. IH is the least likely wolf, but could very well be mafia still. In fact, I suspect all of the of being mafia, and all but IH of being wolves for now.


I do agree with what was said earlier about if we can lynch the last wolf today, that would be the best play. But a mislynch would be horrible, so Peers is the best option (guaranteed hit).

[Twomz]

Wow, I got prodded, guess that means I'm lurking.

I'm keeping up with the game... just haven't had much to comment on. While I agree with many of the points on the Zoneace front... [broken record]I still think Peers is our best move today[/broken record].

I do agree that letting Peers live won't "hurt" the town... but then wouldn't we just lynch him tomorrow? Or after he finds the last wolf? Lets say the mafia DOES find the last wolf, couldn't Peers just say X is the wolf, and when they turn up town say "LOL suckers, X is really the wolf, for reals, go ahead and lynch me first to insure my companion(s) victory ".

There is another reason that I was going to say... but I can hopefully say it later because I think saying it might help the antitown groups more than the town.

[Twomz]

But if you lynch me, how will you test Cicero's Bulletproofness? Or find out if anyone else is wolf or not? Lynch me now, and it's two kills tonight... lynch the wolf, and there's only one, and you know who to lynch tomorrow...

Do you really want me to believe that the mafia is so stupid that they would waste a kill on someone who is either a wolf (no kill) or bulletproof (no kill).

If someone showed me a case that made me believe that player A was definitely a WOLF (not probably one or the other) then I would be tempted to vote for that person today. /Shrug, I still think you're the best lynch for the town Peers.

[Twomz]

.......I'm sorry, I don't get it... I get FOSed for wanting to lynch someone we KNOW is scum now instead of later? And what is the "The scum are no threat if we know who they are" BS? OF COURSE THEY ARE A THREAT! THEY ARE TRYING TO FUCKING KILL US!!! The less of them there are the better.

If you really want, I could explain my thinking better, I just don't want to tip off the scum groups to something big >.>. (this thinking is actually one of the reasons I don't trust Peers)

[Twomz]

Borrowing from Kison's list earlier:

~~Safe (non-Wolf) Players~~
1) curiouskarmadog - Sorcerer
2) ooba - Sorcerer
3) Peers - Mafia
4) cicero - Bulletproof Vest (okay, there's an outside chance he's playing us, but I doubt it)
5) TheHermit (formerly CA): Replaced after the nightkill; could not be wolf

~~Possible Wolves~~
1) Twomz: Wants to vote Peers unless someone has a good Wolf case
2) ZONEACE: Hates CKD, wants to lynch Peers, thinks TheHermit/CA may be wolf
3) Kison: Acting very logically and methodically. Possible last wolf based on personal experience.
4) Sikario8/IH: Um... laying low.
5) Kanaga: Lurking. Seems unsure of who to vote for.

Peers' Analysis:

I still say Kison's acting very SK/'Lone Wolf' like. He's matchign my play in a previous late-game where I was SK. Twomz and ZA are very much doing the "Townie desperate for the game not to end tonight" thing, where Sikario and Kanaga are playing it amazingly quiet.

I still say Kison's our wolf.

unvote

... >.> I would like to add that IH was V/LA over night (He is in a game I am modding) as well.

vote: Kison

[Twomz]

My gut tells me Kison is the last wolf... /shrug.

Accusing people according to voting pattern hasn't been doing us that much good so far...

[Twomz]

Process of Elimination... which is why I'm voting for Kison .

[Twomz]

Process of Elimination... which is why I'm voting for Kison .

Ok - could you give me the reasons as to how you eliminated ZA , TheHermit and Hjallti to arrive at Kison?

TheHermit because of the timing of the replacement. Kanaga/Hjallti is my second choice as wolf (and I am going to leave the cicero gambit as the 3rd choice just to keep things open). I would think that Peers would have jumped onto the Zoneace wagon if he had reason to suspect him of being a wolf. If we aren't going to lynch the person that we know is mafia, we might as well let him help us with the choices.

[Twomz]

I still say Kison's acting very SK/'Lone Wolf' like. He's matchign my play in a previous late-game where I was SK. Twomz and ZA are very much doing the "Townie desperate for the game not to end tonight" thing, where Sikario and Kanaga are playing it amazingly quiet.

I still say Kison's our wolf.

If you want Peers' explanation ask Peers... I'm not gonna go put my words in someone else's mouth, even if they are mafia.

[Twomz]

From my perspective

Known Mafia
Peers (Sonicpulsar)

Known Wolves

Known Town
ooba (killerbob (Honary Hitchhiker))
curiouskarmadog
Twomz

Others....
cicero (Blight) - BPV - there is a chance he is lying and is indeed the last wolf... but testing it now is not really an option
ZONEACE (YogurtBandit) - Probably just bad playing townie (like cephrir and the like) or mafia... if there was a strong chance of him being wolf, Peers would have voted for him.
TheHermit (ChocolateAttack) - Way he was replaced pegs him as not a wolf (could be mafia)
Sikario8 (IH (thinktank)) - Way he was replaced pegs him as not a wolf (could be mafia)
Hjallti (Kanaga (FeRnAnDo)) - Kanaga was my second choice as a wolf simply because of lurking... the replacement points to what happened to thehermit/sikario8
Kison - Peers is willing to attack him (thus probably not mafia) and by process of elimination is the most likely candidate for wolf in my eyes.


That is the basis for my case on Kison.

[Twomz]

They were MIA or V/LA during night, so wouldn't be able to send in a choice...

[Twomz]

Oh right. That does make sense actually. I forgot Whome was a nurse.

There is indeed probably three mafia then. Especially since you hammered Zoneace yourself.

and of course because Zoneace is listed in the dead list as "mafioso" not "mafia godfather".

So how 'bout you cut ze crap, ya?

unvote. vote thehermit

Meta reasons plus the scummiest scumtell of them all. Ignoring my accusation completely whilst coming in to the game to be ever so uber-townie.

Agree with bolded.

Vote: peers

if there are two mafia left then it would be a good idea to cut them down to one before it gets to a 2:2 or 2:1:1. And with seven players, that is tomorrow barring a lack of NKs.

Possible Scum
wolf - Hjallti (Kanaga (FeRnAnDo)) - unless putting ZA at L-1 was a gambit, is unlikely to be mafia.
wolf - cicero (Blight) - still think there's a possibility. I don't think he could be mafia, but it is still a possibility.
unknown - TheHermit (ChocolateAttack) - really, I dunno if or which he would be... there is a lot of metaing going on with him though, can someone explain that please?
unknown - Sikario8 (IH (thinktank)) - no real read on him.

Def. Scum
Peers - mafia (duh)

Def. Town
Me (because I know I am town)
CKD (ooba's death confirms it)


My suggestion is lynch peers today and see if there is a mafia kill or not. Worst case scenario is we have 1 mafia and 1 wolf. Best case is that we just have 1 wolf, although that is extremely unlikely. If there are two mafia left, then we can't afford to have both of them live through tonight.

[Twomz]

I'm waiting for the case against me so I can respond to it :p. I still think Peers is the best option for today. If your meta is wrong (like mine was with Kison) then we pretty much lose the game... just FYI. With a Peers lynch we def. survive at least one day, and hey, maybe he is the last mafiaso, that would mean we just have one wolf after that (and that is a BIG maybe, in fact, the chances of that are almost nonexistent).

[Twomz]

Hehe. I just realized something.

Unvote

Vote: Cicero

The town's not willing to lynch me, so you're arranging for a mislynch. One wolf, one mafia, 5 townies, a mislynch and two nightkills put us at 1:1:2, and then the town will obviously lynch me since they know I'm scum, giving the game to the wolves.

Bulletproof vest, my arse. You're wolf.

Hmm... this makes a whole lot of sense...

unvote

.

Gonna wait for more comments before voting again.

@CKD: It's very unlikely that Peers is the last mafiaso, but there is still that chance out there, however unlikely.

[Twomz]

As it is, I am BPV which leads to the idea that there is another mafioso. Twomz contradicts himself when he says a) that what Peers says makes sense, and then b) that it is unlikely that Peers is the last mafioso. I was thinking Twomz was more likely to be town but his sudden announcement that Peers's bald evidence-free assertion "makes a lot of sense" is certainly concerning to me.

Partially true, which is why I didn't vote you. But if you look back at my posts I have been saying that there is a chance that you were a wolf running a gambit for a while now. Peers post just made me notice how juicy the situation would have been for you if you were indeed the last wolf.

[Twomz]

Total townie until he started screaming for us to lynch Peers.

??? I was townie until I decided on the one way to have a 100% chance of hitting scum? We have had too many mislynches so far in the game... and a lot of the logic up to this point has been flawed or guided by scum... so yeah, a scum claiming makes me want to lynch him.

And at the same time I don't trust 1/2 the stuff he tells us, the other 1/2 makes a lot of sense and can be taken into consideration the wolf hunting front.

[Twomz]

Just getting into response mode for when CKD posts his case on me .

CKD: Relax, man, the Mafia isn't going to kill you... you're actually somewhat useful as long as there's still a wolf. Maybe that's why you don't want us to find the wolf... once he's gone, you're the obvious target for the Mafia to take out because you're pretty much a confirmed kill...

Cicero: I've got this odd scenario where you're not the BPV, but claimed to try and draw the real BPV out of hiding... but they didn't bite, so you're keeping up the charade to a) prevent the mafia from voting for you and b) waste a Mafia's kill by having them hit the BPV...

1) The way you say "the Mafia" makes me think there is another mafiaso out there. Good to know .
2) WIFOM on the cicero think imo /sigh.

[Twomz]

<- still waiting on CKD...

um....

Anything else anyone wants to talk about? Should we talk about remaining roleclaims? Or do we want to put that off til tomorrow? (I'm pretty sure I know what everyone is going to answer though).

[Twomz]

1) The Karen lynch was inevitable, as long as she was in the game she was distracting us from catching scum. Going back to point out that the people on the wagon were scummy is what caused so many mislynches the next few days >.>

2) Green day pushed the Karen lynch without voting for her... that is a major scum tell in my book and the biggest one from such a strange day one.

3) I though Green Day stopped posting because of the pressure, that was my personal opinion, and just getting the lynch over with seemed like a better idea then getting a replacement who couldn't speak up for Green Days actions (who ended up getting lynched anyway).

3b) I do not remember it ever being mentioned that Green Day wasn't posting in any games... I thought it was just this one, guess I should have checked better >.<

4) I know I am not the only person that thought Day 2 dragged on too much. And in which posts did I push the thorn wagon after I unvoted? I wanted to explore the cephrir option while thorn was trying to defend herself, then the town lynched her (I was not on the final wagon for thorn).

5) CKD... you do know that you were one of the main people on Cephrir's case right? It sounds kinda hypocritcal of you to target someone for agreeing with you. But, the point is valid that I went after Cephrir as opposed to ZA... I just thought he was being aggressive, not scummy /shrug. In fact, while he was on my possible mafia and wolf lists, he wasn't really at the top of either, it kinda surprised me when he turned up mafia.

6) It was going to happen eventually, there was no point in trying to stall the day...

7) It would have been a WHOLE lot better for you to have just claimed "Protective Role" than to say "Sorcerer". I made a whole big ole post on Day 2 (I believe) about how if your role affects just one scum faction, you should just claim the generic between and not say which one it affects.... then you went and just ignore the whole thing /grumble. Now you are trying to call me scum for trying to keep information FROM the scum groups... /sigh.

8) No, I was belittling you for the way you claimed (see 7).

9) I don't remember . But there is no reason to leave someone at -1 when there are 2 undamaged scum groups lying around >.>

10)

Yeah, Peers' claimed Mafia target is totally BS. It's not like the outed scum is fooling anyone. If he was telling the truth, CKD would be very dead right now... which he is not.

Wouldn't ooba like friends right about now?

LOCK ON: Peers

Tar stop trying to protect your wolf buddies by acting like you still are a 'Watcher' (and Hence paint us 2 sorcerers more scummy in the town's mind)... Heres a recap

Night 2
ooba(killerbob) protects CKD
doc protects CKD
Mafia (Peers) hit CKD

Night 3
Wolf (You) hit Peers
CKD protects ooba

Day 4
CKD has to claim ...
You see he saved me so you know Peers has to be scum
You invent a roleclaim
Breadcrumb the false roleclaim when voting for CKD
But i claimed saving CKD from lynch
So you used the opportunity to claim and outed peers ..
Peers is outed . But in the process , he outed you ...

You are the Day 5 lynch .. No doubt in my mind ..

I am leaving in a few minutes, but this pretty much sums up what I think.

It is VERY possible that dybeck protected CKD.

Peers is today's lynch, then Tar tomorrow (at this point he is obviously lying).

I am somewhat doubtful about CKD AND OOBA being wolves too.

We have no reason not to trust peers, he wants the wolves lynched just as much as the town does. /shrug Well, now I am glad we almost ran up CKD today, ended up w/ a double scum find .

I am going soon, so I will leave it to the town to finish peers off when y'all are ready. No reason to rush a sure lynch.

GL.

I was going somewhere, don't remember where, and I didn't want to leave my vote on a sure lynch and have some scum "accidentally" cut the day short /shrug.

11) It was my personally belief that in that situation Peers would be lying about DAS. It made no sense to me to name the actual target from the night before (in my mind he would give a townie name, then give the wolves name the next day, 2 birds with 1 stone as it were), and I hoped that running Peers up close to a lynch would get the real name /shrug. I have been against keeping peers alive for a while now, especially when we mislyned and almost mislynched with him still alive.

12) I didn't trust Peers to tell the whole truth about the night actions, when he points something out in thread/meta, that is a different story.

13) You just did a review of my posts and you didn't notice that I thought the same thing was possible? His perspective and the way that it pretty much guaranteed a win just stuck out to me.


The fact that if hermit isn't a wolf, and both scum group kills go through tonight, the town loses is exactly why I wanted to lynch Peers earlier on.... /sigh. But, no one listened to me, oh well.

Vote Hermit

just because I believe that there has to be a bulletproof in the game, and no one else has claimed it (otherwise, i'd be voting for cicero).

[Twomz]

I am going to wait for everyone to check in first. We should probably discuss who the last mafiaso is before we decide if we want to lynch peers or someone else (in all honesty, I can't imagine lynching anyone but peers today, because that would be 2:3, mislynch, 2:2, mafia wins).

I do suggest no one else vote peers so that he can't hammah himself and end the day before we can discuss anything.

[Twomz]

First point, because it is 3 to lynch and there is a vote on him, if someone else votes for peers then he can end the day whenever he wants unless someone unvotes.

Second point, one of the townies is going to die tonight. I for one at least want to get my opinion out there in case it is me because there is a chance it will help the town even with me dead (That said, I will hopefully be able to run through all the living players posts and at least come up with somewhat of a read on the remaining players).

Also, from my point of view Cicero is cleared. There was a chance he was a wolf trying to gambit... but the likelihood that he would claim BPV that early in the game just on the off chance to reveal the real one (which there wouldn't be one if he were lying, another point in his favor) would be retarded. I really don't think he is scum. And since I know I am not scum, that leaves me with two choices.

[Twomz]

Where (da funk) is Jenter?

Wit yo momma!

[Twomz]

Jenter Brolincani (Sikario8 (IH (thinktank)))

thinktank - voted for Karen, then unvoted and voted for cephrir; this happened before any mafia were on the Karen wagon, but there were two wolves on it (I don't guess that matters, just interesting). After that, he just FoSed instead of voting until he was replaced by...
IH - Asked zoneace about his CKD case, asked what wolfsbane was then was replaced by...
Sikario8 - um.... odd posting style, but I can't really pick out anything besides a lot of quotes and dots. Then he was replaced by...
Jenter Brolincani - Has made 2 posts and won't really be posting til monday >.>

In conclusion... I have no real clue about this one. A whole lot of attempted participation, lurking, replacement, rereading, more lurking. For all I know their role is pink elephant.

Hjallti (Kanaga (FeRnAnDo))

FeRnAnDo - slight push of Karen wagon, but nothing beyond a FoS at me and Karen and a random vote that he retracted before he was replaced. If not for the Green Day fiasco, I'd take that as a scum tell >.>. He was replaced by...
Kanaga - After reread agreed with Green day scumminess, but did nothing about it and defended CKD. After pointing out that players were scummy without really doing anything about it, he votes for Green day for not defending himself. Goes on to defend the Karen wagon for a while, then the next day votes for Cephrir. Next day votes, CKD, then unvotes after claim (i believe), goes on to vote hope a little bit and agrees that the mafia should test me and thinks more people need to claim. Then he gets replaced by...
Hjallti - Jumped right into it after doing a reread. Did a lot of setup theory, and agreed that lynching peers sooner rather than later was a good idea (;)). Was on both the Zoneace and the Hermit lynches with barely any content between either (blind bandwagonning?). And now we are at the present.

Concluding for this one... I could have seen all three players as scum individually, although I would have only been suspicious of them and not voted unless there was nothing else. For a minute I thought for sure that Hjallti was town until he just kind of lurked following bandwagons for a couple of days. I guess if I had to vote for one of the two it would be Hjallti.


Well... I just realized that I am the last living player that started the game >.> And doing post reviews of replaced players only made it more obvious. If I have time before Jenter gets back, I'll do another read in context and maybe of the mafiasos and see if that helps... if not then I guess we will just have to let cicero pick .

[Twomz]

Sorry, maybe lurking was a bad way of putting it... you voted without really saying why or posting anything major besides the vote for about 2 game days. Unless my brain got fried overnight after I read your posts... (which very well might be the case /pain).

[Twomz]

Twomz, I hope I explained it satisfactory for you. If I agree with some player and have no time to add something original I don't bother to do this "quote - QFT" -posts, but maybe I should have. Anyway I still don't understand what is scummy about voting obviously scumplayers of.

Voting off scummy players isn't scummy. Making one or two posts in a day, where you vote a player with no reasons given and do nothing else is. If you were mafia you would have known that zoneace was scum and been able to just toss your vote on his wagon and bus him. And adding your vote to the leading wagon that turns out to be the last wolf could have just been luck /shrug.

Then again, going by voting patterns hasn't really been the most productive scum hunting tactic this game... so maybe I'm just chasing dust.

[Twomz]

Just waiting for Jenter now? Hjallti, what are your thoughts on me and Jenter? Any other points in one or both of my cases you want to talk about? Maybe why you didn't post why you were voting (I refuse to believe that after reading the first part of the game you would vote for a player just because they looked scummy)?

[Twomz]

How many days ago did peers get outted? If you just want to move on, that's fine with me, but I'd rather get as much taken care of today as possible.

I'll vote tomorrow, regardless of Jenter's posting (unless he wants to actually contribute *gasp).

[Twomz]

Vote: Peers

Hopefully Jenter will get at least one post in before he gets finished off. GL town, just in case.

[Twomz]

CAN the mafia choose not to kill?

[Twomz]

So... who do y'all think dun it? If the last scum is cicero (unless the mafia is capable of skipping kills, this would be impossible... /sideways glance) then imo he pretty much deserves to win at this point, so I am marking him off of my list.

That leaves Jenter and Hjallti. I don't know if I want to lean towards Hjallti for the reasons I pointed out yesterday, or towards jenter for general lack of caring. I suppose it is up to Cicero to chose between the three of us.

[Twomz]

Bah, I'll at least flip a coin on them before I abandon this game...

BTW cicero, you know that thing I said that I'd tell you after the game was over (because it was brought up in another game >.> /sigh)? I'll go ahead and say it now. Karen and the other scummy looking townies were the reason. There was no time with all the discussion of them. At least, that's how I see it.

[Twomz]

No Lynch might be a valid strategy, but then again, if the last scum doesn't kill anyone, it would lead to a tie.

Jenter, POST!

[Twomz]

If I were a vig I woulda killed people by now. Stupid townie role not being useful beyond a vote .

[Twomz]

Of course I'd seem the most scummy if I have the next highest vote count against a player who is pretty much 100% confirmed >.>

Now, besides just a thought then a skip on the game... how about some actual content? This is the last, or at worst second to last, day of the game, how about some effort?

[Twomz]

Aw, I feel the same way about you cicero <3.

Well, we can sit here all day and do nothing and probably eventually no lynch and hope the mafia kills one of us to narrow the choices (no lynching in this situation would be the logical play I suppose) or could lead us into a spiral that would end in a tie (happily ever after, unless the mod makes the mafia make a kill) or we can lynch someone.

After a little bit of though (not a lot, just a little) I have come up with this... my brain tells me it is probably Hjallti. From the cumulative slightly suspicious behavior of all the people that he replaced, and the bare minimum participation a couple of days ago.

BUT, my gut is telling me Jenter. It might just be my innate antilurker/noncontributor instinct kicking in, but it is to the point where I would rather lynch him than Hjallti.


Now, I know that this is the endgame, and that it will take 3/4 people to lynch. I also know that casting the first and second votes (a quick 3rd vote is pretty much a giveaway that the person was scum waiting for the vote to get to 2, but it won't matter at that point) before the target is agreed upon is seen as scummy because of the way that a few votes can pile up fast at this point in the game.

But, I am gonna go ahead and

vote: Jenter Brolincani

. I'll be damned if I am going to let the scum win by lurking in the endgame and leave us at a happily ever after when I've put MONTHS into this game.

"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. in one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a vote was cast in the great game of Mafia 69. The vote was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was

a

beginning."

[Twomz]

Now...

- States that he's town several times wit' no backup.

??? I have my PM that says I'm town, but you know, w/e. I've seen no proof that you are town either.

- Screamed to lynch Peers a day or 2 ago while there were still dogs alive Peers could help us with (diatance, distance, distance).

On the peers thing. 1) I didn't want it to get to the point where we either lynch peers or lose the game (we got to that point btw) 2) Scum can LIE about what happened at night, it still surprises me there was no "We targeted _____ last night and the kill didn't go through so he is def. wolf (while they actually targeted someone else or cicero), and then when he turns up town say, "Ooops sorry, I meant that other guy, I guess I should pay more attention at night . 3) Lynching a known scum > mislynching. If you know about a scum there is no real reason to mislynch.

And I know this is obv. WIFOM, but why would I do such obvious distancing if I were scum with him? I really think we should have lynched Peers earlier, I think it would have been the better play. But, w/e, that's not what happened.

- Kept repeating that there was a possibility Peers was the last Mafioso (which, as he admitted would totally not add up, so why bother repeating it unless you were te last mafioso and didn't want people to think you existed?)

Don't twist my words scum, I said that it was a possibility, but most likely was false. Regardless, it would become apparent later on if it was true or not.

- No Lynch might be a valid strategy

We are actually in a situation called the Prisoner's dilemma. If we lynch today, it would put the game at 2:1 and the mafia kill tonight would put the town at 1:1, thus a lose. The "proper" strategy for this endgame situation is to no lynch, let mafia NK, then lynch at 2:1, so the town, not the scum are in control of who is the last 2 people alive. Scum would be the only people fully opposed to a no lynch today.


@ Hjallti: Do you have any questions for me?

[Twomz]

Nevertheless:

Vote No Lynch

I would like to request that you do not provoke a no lynch today.
If the town won't lynch and scum won't kill the game will last forever.

Please make the the best use of the time you have and choose someone to lynch.

So, I guess that means no happily ever after huh?

Dead, can't you just force the mafia to kill at night if we no lynch?

[Twomz]

Now...

- States that he's town several times wit' no backup.

??? I have my PM that says I'm town, but you know, w/e. I've seen no proof that you are town either.

... Of course you haven't but I haven't been randomly stating 'I'm a townie' repeatedly for no real reason.

So, the fact that I haven't gone around yelling "I'M SCUM LOL LYNCH ME PLZ" means that I'm stating that I'm town w/ no backup? I don't get it.

- Screamed to lynch Peers a day or 2 ago while there were still dogs alive Peers could help us with (diatance, distance, distance).

On the peers thing. 1) I didn't want it to get to the point where we either lynch peers or lose the game (we got to that point btw) 2) Scum can LIE about what happened at night, it still surprises me there was no "We targeted _____ last night and the kill didn't go through so he is def. wolf (while they actually targeted someone else or cicero), and then when he turns up town say, "Ooops sorry, I meant that other guy, I guess I should pay more attention at night . 3) Lynching a known scum > mislynching. If you know about a scum there is no real reason to mislynch.

Kison was correct here; Peers was our get-out card. if we'd lynched Peers then gone to LyLo, we'd have had no idea who to kill and might well have lost as it was we just knew who to lynch straight away. Only reason anyone would have lynched Peers early is if they were scum thinking they could get a mislynch when it went to LyLo and the town had lost its Get Out of Lylo Free card.

Well... you know, the mafia still had to kill the wolves, if they found another then we might have been able to pick out the third one when they were pushing for the last wolf >.> Having Peers live pretty much cleared the other two from having to expose the fact that they knew who the wolves were ahead of time. Oh well, it didn't really matter in the end since the last wolf was found w/o the mafia anyway.

And I know this is obv. WIFOM, but why would I do such obvious distancing if I were scum with him? I really think we should have lynched Peers earlier, I think it would have been the better play. But, w/e, that's not what happened.

You tell me why you were distancing. I don't know.

Oh I dunno, trying to get him lynched is pretty obvious... and it seems that trying to get a known scum lynched because you think it's the best course of action is distancing... you do the math.

- Kept repeating that there was a possibility Peers was the last Mafioso (which, as he admitted would totally not add up, so why bother repeating it unless you were te last mafioso and didn't want people to think you existed?)

Don't twist my words scum, I said that it was a possibility, but most likely was false. Regardless, it would become apparent later on if it was true or not.

Yes, I'm being accurate, I'm saying yu said it was logically completely implausible - so WHY reapeat it on 2 to 3 seperate occasions?

"Logically completely implausible"? I said that there was a small possibility that it was true but most likely wasn't. That's called being cautious, you word it as if I dismissed it offhand, which not only is not what I did, but not what you are trying to blame me for.

- No Lynch might be a valid strategy

We are actually in a situation called the Prisoner's dilemma. If we lynch today, it would put the game at 2:1 and the mafia kill tonight would put the town at 1:1, thus a lose. The "proper" strategy for this endgame situation is to no lynch, let mafia NK, then lynch at 2:1, so the town, not the scum are in control of who is the last 2 people alive. Scum would be the only people fully opposed to a no lynch today.

SCUM WON'T KILL IF WE DO THAT. GOT IT?

That's why it's called prisoner's DILEMMA. It's a problem on who takes the first step, because if the mafia NKs first, it puts them at a disadvantage the next day, and the town has a lower chance of hitting successfully in a 3:1 situation than in a 2:1 situation. The best way for the town to solve it is to force the scum to NK. The best way for the scum to handle it is to wait for the town to lynch. It seems as if MoS isn't going to let us no lynch, which of course means that he won't let the mafia hold off on the night kill. So it doesn't really matter anyway because the problem has removed itself from the game.



@ Hjallti: The logic of my Kison vote made sense to me at the time /shrug.

On Cicero... before the last wolf was found I was highly suspicious of him, because it seemed to be the optimal fake claim for a wolf. Now that the wolves are dead, it doesn't make sense for him to be scum anymore.

107. I agree with cicero you were so good scumhunting and townie until you started to repeately asking peers lynch, not by the fact but the way you did it.

So... I looked town until my viewpoint differed from the rest of the town? I guess that makes sense, but it doesn't change anything for me.

75. unvote due to the claim of ooba. I don't think it was wise of the town to let ooba claim as well, and I can't imagine that Twomz didn't realize that threatening the hammer would actually trigger this. 'I don't know if I should thank you or yell at you' is therefor hypocrit (as town (an funny to come from scum somehow))

Hmm? I was voting for CKD before he tried to hammer himself. How is that related to Ooba's claim. What I saw was a sketchy attempt at a claim at the time. And the thank you was for stopping a mislynch, and the yelling... I don't really remember too well. I think it was for either the way he claimed or that he waited so long /shrug. It's been 4 months, what do you want from me?

[Twomz]

*Twiddles Thumbs*

What's going on y'all?

[Twomz]

Well, I have two choices of who the last scum is, and it's you and jenter... so yeah, I'm gonna FoS the other one.

I guess I just wait for Jenter-scum to finish me off now. It was a fun game . Too bad the town loses in the end because two players just kept getting replaced and are hard to build cases against /sigh. Wish I had been a vig just so I could have killed Peers sooner, then the town definitely would have won, oh well.

[Twomz]

/bored

[Twomz]

On principle I refuse to cast a vote on myself as town.... but this is getting ridiculous.

[Twomz]

Damn. Go town, I hope the tie thing works out for y'all .

[Twomz]

/sigh. If I have a repeat of this game... no pushing the claimed scum >.>

Really though, I thought it was the protown thing to do, that's why I followed it. I had no clue why everyone was so trusting of the claimed mafiaso.

I was also planning on bussing Zoneace from early on, but I was out of town or something when he was lynched .

Good playing town, especially Cicero ^5 for not bringing in meta reasons that he found in another thread :p (I rarely live to endgame as town unless I have some confirmable role that isn't cop or doc, but for some reason I usually live to endgame as scum).

Again, GG.

[Twomz]

Oh, and I nominate myself for living to the last day without getting replaced .