Mafia 69: noXkill - Game over!

[cicero]

Who is the last wolf, Zoneace, according to your investigations?

[ZONEACE]

Umm I seem to remember answering this question already.

ZA here is a question for you

after ooba and I were not killed after we claimed you thought we had to be scum.

now that Cicero has claimed BV and the wolves did not kill him..your thoughts on cicero.

Also ZA...I would like you to finish these sentences.


"I think the lone wolf is..."
"I think the mafia scum group is..."

I admit I'm a little perplexed by Cicero still being alive. But then i thought about it. If he is wolf obviously he'd still be alive. If he is mafia obviously he'd still be alive. If he's telling the truth that's where my problem is. It seems like an obvious choice for the wolf kill. But then I considered. The wolves are pretty much done. there's only one of them left, the likely hood of them winning is very slim. So the lone wolf may be trying to screw the mafia over leaving alive the only other person they can't NK.

IF cicero is scum he's the last wolf, cause if he claimed BC as Mafia he could be exposed by an exposed wolf so i don't think thats a risk he'd take but I'm still not sure about him.


Now for the fill in the blanks. I think the lone wolf is Kison or The Hermit (I had a few suspicions that CA and DAS were aligned but CA's replacement makes me question it since there was still a Wolf Kill).
I think the unknown mafia are 2 of Kison, Kanaga, IH

[cicero]

yup sorry. My bad. This game is not getting my full attention and it shows. It will before anyone is in range of a hammer, I promise.

[ZONEACE]

yup sorry. My bad. This game is not getting my full attention and it shows. It will before anyone is in range of a hammer, I promise.

fair enough.

[curiouskarmadog]

As for me voting you and ooba. The claim seemed shoddy at the time, and I seem to remember not being the only one who didn't believe you guys. Plus you were acting REALLY SCUMMY (heck you still are). I had legitimate cause to vote you, so calm down there killer.

You are right there…lets look who agreed with you.

I'd say, with no scum caught so far, it's far more likely he's scum than town, and so I'm leaving my vote on him. Now, the question is... have his scumbuddies voted for him? If so, will they unvote and risk exposing themselves? Or did they not vote for him to keep him safe, and are hoping to make innocent townies second-guess unvoting?

I don't buy that claim for a second. Protection on odd nights only? Sounds like a scum falseclaim to me, especially since I'm pretty sure I know who the real sorceror is.

Vote: Curiouskarmadog
LOCK ON: Curiouskarmadog

That is some good company ZA.


So you weren’t on the Cephrir lynch (I was mistaken), but DAS wasn’t on my lynch either.

Answer these questions that you seem to have overlooked AGAIN. Why after Peers came out and told us he was mafia, did you want to push a lynch for ooba and I even before Peers provided us any information. Peers was claimed mafia, but you felt my lynch was more important. Now even before you come back with, “Well you are attacking me before Peers”…This is a different scenario. We are now trying to eliminate the rest of a scum group…what were you trying to do?

Why after Peers gave us DAS as scum, did you not want vote either Peers or DaS but wanted to lynch Kison?

What is scummy, is that you are fast to place your vote on me out of the gate…you were fast hang Green day and Karen….but when it came to DaS and Tar…you wanted to wait till the very end when it was quite obvious they were gong to be lynched…PLEASE explain to me the change in playstyle.

My vote wasn’t one DaS because I was still looking for information and wanted to see if DaS was going to provide us any information before he left (see post 1224). You cant say you were scum hunting because all you were doing was pushing a Kison lynch…

Who is really getting scummier and scummier?

[ZONEACE]

That is some good company ZA.

See now was it that hard to make a logical argument that wasn't full of mis-information? On this point sir, i concede, i didn't have the best company, but that doesn't mean I was wrong to disbelieve you.

Why after Peers gave us DAS as scum, did you not want vote either Peers or DaS but wanted to lynch Kison?

asked and answered re read the last page

What is scummy, is that you are fast to place your vote on me out of the gate…you were fast hang Green day and Karen….but when it came to DaS and Tar…you wanted to wait till the very end when it was quite obvious they were gong to be lynched…PLEASE explain to me the change in playstyle.

Karen and GD had nothing to add in our attempts to gain useful info. They were both petulant and it seemed intentionally trying to hinder the town. With DAS and Tar, they were EXPOSED SCUM who could potentially lead us to other scum. There were other people who were trying to turn both them into quick lynches. I refused to do because they had info that we could have used and quick lynching completely eliminates any possibility of getting that info You are sitting there saying Im scum for not tyring to quick lynch DAS when you never voted for him

My vote wasn’t one DaS because I was still looking for information and wanted to see if DaS was going to provide us any information before he left (see post 1224). You cant say you were scum hunting because all you were doing was pushing a Kison lynch…

No i wasn't pushing a Kison lynch, I was voting for kison as a place holder (i think Kison is scum whether he's the last wolf or a mafia idk) while DAS' usefulness played out. When it was clear DAS was no longer useful (when he quit and voted himself as an attempt to get sympathy) I changed my vote

Who is really getting scummier and scummier?

still you CKD, still you.

[Dead Rikimaru]

France had a multitude of reports of werewolf attacks—and consequent court trials—during the sixteenth century. In some of the cases–e.g. those of the Gandillon family in the Jura, the tailor of Chalons and Roulet in Angers, all occurring in the year 1598—there was clear evidence against the accused of murder and cannibalism, but none of association with wolves; in other cases, such as that of Gilles Garnier in Dole in 1573, there was clear evidence against some wolf but none against the accused.

FOURTH VOTECOUNT

Peers

(3) - Twomz , ZONEACE , TheHermit

ZONEACE

(2) - curiouskarmadog , cicero

Kison

(1) - Peers

Not voting

(4): ooba , Kison , Sikario8 , Kanaga

Needed for a lynch: 6 votes
Negotiable deadline: 23 days

If by deadline no one has 6 votes player with more votes is lynched
If two players have same number of votes lynch is decided by duel

[ZONEACE]

oh, and CKD your attempt to make me look scummy by not voting for known scum (kison over Peers/DAS) looks even more ridiculous when you look at the fact you yourself are the SAME THING RIGHT NOW.

[ZONEACE]

oh, and CKD your attempt to make me look scummy

FOR

not voting for known scum (kison over Peers/DAS) looks even more ridiculous when you look at the fact you yourself are

DOING

the SAME THING RIGHT NOW.

sorry the bold is a correction. thats what i meant to say.

[curiouskarmadog]

oh, and CKD your attempt to make me look scummy by not voting for known scum (kison over Peers/DAS) looks even more ridiculous when you look at the fact you yourself are the SAME THING RIGHT NOW.

this has been addressed, please read my post

[ZONEACE]

oh, and CKD your attempt to make me look scummy by not voting for known scum (kison over Peers/DAS) looks even more ridiculous when you look at the fact you yourself are the SAME THING RIGHT NOW.

this has been addressed, please read my post

addressing it doesn't make you any less of a hypocrite

[curiouskarmadog]

wow...please explain to me..why pushing for my lynch or Kison over DaS or peers was protown?

also, please explain why wanting to completely eliminate one scum group today is anti-town.

[ZONEACE]

wow...please explain to me..why pushing for my lynch or Kison over DaS or peers was protown?

umm, i didn't really push for Kison's lynch, i voted him cause i think he's scum. I realized he wasn't going to be lynch but iw anted my intentions known. Pushing for your lynch was por town because you WERE SCUMMY.

also, please explain why wanting to completely eliminate one scum group today is anti-town.

it's not but Peers has out lived his usefulness. Allowing him to continue living, IS anti-town

[Peers]

Okay, okay, CKD and Zoneace don't like each other. We get it. Less arguing, more wolf-hunting, please.

[cicero]

I disagree that letting Peers live is anti-town. Regardless of whether Peers spends his nights trying to kill wolves or townies if he does hit a wolf he has an incentive to tell us. This is the nature of this no cross kill dynamic. Period full stop. Killing Peers right now seems dumb to me. If someone wants to make (or repost cuz Im not down with the re-reads just now) a really REALLY good case for why keeping Peers alive is bad chess then I'd love to hear it. Variations on asserting "we lynch scum" over and over dont count.

[ooba]

I disagree that letting Peers live is anti-town. Regardless of whether Peers spends his nights trying to kill wolves or townies if he does hit a wolf he has an incentive to tell us. This is the nature of this no cross kill dynamic. Period full stop. Killing Peers right now seems dumb to me. If someone wants to make (or repost cuz Im not down with the re-reads just now) a really REALLY good case for why keeping Peers alive is bad chess then I'd love to hear it. Variations on asserting "we lynch scum" over and over dont count.

Copied from an earlier post ...

Assuming we lynch someone who is innocent ..

Night : 3 Mafia , 1 Wolf , 5 Town
Day : 3 Mafia , 1 Wolf , 3 Town (Worst case Scenario - 2 town kills)

We are pretty much giving mafia the game

An earlier post where i showed the linkes between Tar,DAS and ZA

But i'm not completely sure that ZA could not be townie (Cephrir comes to mind here) - hence i think lynching a sure Mafia is better now - As far as the "He is a information source" arguement goes - I think he's outlived his usefulness

[Twomz]

Wow, I got prodded, guess that means I'm lurking.

I'm keeping up with the game... just haven't had much to comment on. While I agree with many of the points on the Zoneace front... [broken record]I still think Peers is our best move today[/broken record].

I do agree that letting Peers live won't "hurt" the town... but then wouldn't we just lynch him tomorrow? Or after he finds the last wolf? Lets say the mafia DOES find the last wolf, couldn't Peers just say X is the wolf, and when they turn up town say "LOL suckers, X is really the wolf, for reals, go ahead and lynch me first to insure my companion(s) victory ".

There is another reason that I was going to say... but I can hopefully say it later because I think saying it might help the antitown groups more than the town.

[Peers]

But if you lynch me, how will you test Cicero's Bulletproofness? Or find out if anyone else is wolf or not? Lynch me now, and it's two kills tonight... lynch the wolf, and there's only one, and you know who to lynch tomorrow...

[Twomz]

But if you lynch me, how will you test Cicero's Bulletproofness? Or find out if anyone else is wolf or not? Lynch me now, and it's two kills tonight... lynch the wolf, and there's only one, and you know who to lynch tomorrow...

Do you really want me to believe that the mafia is so stupid that they would waste a kill on someone who is either a wolf (no kill) or bulletproof (no kill).

If someone showed me a case that made me believe that player A was definitely a WOLF (not probably one or the other) then I would be tempted to vote for that person today. /Shrug, I still think you're the best lynch for the town Peers.

[Kison]

Hey guys,

First I would like to just clarify the roleclaims and such thus far. No I'm not trying to fish or any of that nonsense so don't even try, but I think it's important to keep on record what we think we're dealing with so we can begin to scratch off improbable suspects and try and crack what's going on here. It makes it easier for me to keep things straight, anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

~~Claimed Players~~

1) curiouskarmadog - Sorcerer
2) ooba - Sorcerer
3) Peers - Mafia
4) cicero - Bulletproof Vest

~~Unclaimed Players~~

1) Twomz
2) ZONEACE
3) TheHermit
4) Kison
5) Sikario8
6) Kanaga


A couple of things here... I think Cicero's claim is fairly sound and fairly incontraversial. We had a Wolfsbane. Wolfsbane, to my understanding, is like the antiwolf BV. Cicero claimed BV. There was no counterclaim. That's kind of a big risk. I see no reason for there not to be a BV. Does anyone else?

I think many people voiced agreement to the 3 VS 3 scum thing. If that is the case, I do not see how the two Sorcerers can be wolves when there are 2 dead wolves already.

Peers is scum. Duh.

If anyone can bring something up against those claims that I missed, I'd be glad to hear it. Until then, I think I'm putting my focus towards the other list when it comes to flushing out the 3 remaining scum.

What we think we're after here : 1 wolf, 2 mafia. Peers is Mafia, we already have him. The suspects, pending refutable arguments against the claims, are the six unclaimed players. I'm not suggesting we have a mass claim at this point(but I would not be against discussing the possibility).

If we are right in all of this, we got a 50% shot of hitting scum of either alignment. From my perspective, it is 3/5 or 60%. I like those odds.

Other thing to keep in mind, is that if we assume 3/3 mafia/werewolf, that's 1/3 remaining, so four scum. 10 players. 6 townies.

First order of business!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

TWO MIDDLE FINGERS OF SUSPICION TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO LYNCH PEERS!!!!

SERIOUSLY. That means YOU, Twomz. I know that I threatened it yesterday, but it was more to make sure Peers wasn't going to try to fuck with us. More on that later.

Think about this for a minute. Peers is a GUARANTEED out-card for us at any point where we are stuck at LyLo. We KNOW he's Mafia. We can CLIP him when we NEED to. So if by tomorrow we're at LyLo w/ only Mafia, we clip Peers as the guaranteed out card. We come back to day, finish the job of hunting his two pillow buddies.

Let me CLARIFY it for those who aren't quite ON TOP OF THINGS.

Let us imagine for a moment we are in LyLo. We also know all 4 remaining scum. WONDERFUL. What do we do? We lynch them in progression. 1...2...3...4 Game over. The scum are no threat if we know who they are.

Now, I would agree with lynching our lil' friend Peers De Luca Impierioli Lombardo, except for one little thing...

If we don't lynch the wolf today, Peers can help find the wolf tonight.

More importantly, killing the Wolf should be #1 priority so we get rid of that very... fucking... bad... second night kill. If we lynch Peers, well no shit we won't lynch the Werewolf today.

Peers, in case you're a little delusional, you're a dead man walking right now. Missing the Werewolf at night ain't gonna save you. Like I said. If we get to LyLo, we're stringing you up like that roadkill we butchered for dinner last night. I appreciate your consideration in helping us lose only one Townie last night, but you still kinda missed Ol' Yeller.

Ok, on to bigger and better things.

Vote : Zoneace

This guy is scum. Karma Mutt sums it up nicely.

More later.

[Twomz]

.......I'm sorry, I don't get it... I get FOSed for wanting to lynch someone we KNOW is scum now instead of later? And what is the "The scum are no threat if we know who they are" BS? OF COURSE THEY ARE A THREAT! THEY ARE TRYING TO FUCKING KILL US!!! The less of them there are the better.

If you really want, I could explain my thinking better, I just don't want to tip off the scum groups to something big >.>. (this thinking is actually one of the reasons I don't trust Peers)

[curiouskarmadog]

But if you lynch me, how will you test Cicero's Bulletproofness? Or find out if anyone else is wolf or not? Lynch me now, and it's two kills tonight... lynch the wolf, and there's only one, and you know who to lynch tomorrow...

interesting...so you are saying that you will test Cicero tonight?

[curiouskarmadog]

But if you lynch me, how will you test Cicero's Bulletproofness? Or find out if anyone else is wolf or not? Lynch me now, and it's two kills tonight... lynch the wolf, and there's only one, and you know who to lynch tomorrow...

interesting...so you are saying that you will test Cicero tonight?

when did you decide you were going to do that? WHy have you never tested ZA?

[Peers]

CKD, I was attempting to be funny... hell, even I accept cicero's claim, that why it'd be amazingly funny to find out he's a wolf at endgame. Why would I test him?

As for testing ZA... well, never had a reason to before. You want him to be tested tonight, I'll get him tested tonight. I still say Kison is acting exactly how I did in Mini 506, where I was the SK and was using cold, hard numbers to try and get the Mafia faction removed -- at this point, the Wolf is just an SK who can't kill Mafia, so the pattern fits.

[Kison]

.......I'm sorry, I don't get it... I get FOSed for wanting to lynch someone we KNOW is scum now instead of later? And what is the "The scum are no threat if we know who they are" BS? OF COURSE THEY ARE A THREAT! THEY ARE TRYING TO FUCKING KILL US!!! The less of them there are the better.

Hey Skidrow, PEERS is no threat to us because we KNOW who he is.

You are crossing two completely separate things here. Do NOT confuse what I said with thinking that the other 3 scum are not dangerous because we know who Peers is. What I am saying is that if, theoretically speaking, we had all 4 scum pegged with confessions, they would not be a threat because we would KNOW to lynch them 4 days in progression.

The same is the case with Peers. We need to lynch him. It doesn't matter when. It just matters that it is done before the Town loses the game. In a typical Mafia game, it would indeed make sense to lynch off the Mafia ASAP if we had them pegged. However, that is not the case, here. The Mafia can be used as an investigative power right now.

Yes, I realize that keeping Peers around is not going to guarantee anything of yield, but it will not hurt us keeping him around until the other team is dead, just in case. He's already dead. We just haven't

spent

one of our lynches on him yet. I think your problem is that you think that by keeping him around, we are wasting lynches.