Mini 490: Speed Mafia - GAME OVER.

[distad]

Vote: Pigg

[distad]

BM- Yeah, it's a quick one. The lynch deadlines are going to be very tough. As of right now, I think that it will be 4 to lynch today if we go to deadline.

[distad]

He replaced into a currently running game that I'm in.

If this is going to be THIS quick of a game, we need everyone else to hop in here, also. Otherwise, we're not going to have very much to go on when we get to Day 2.

[distad]

Yeah... metagaming only helps to an extent. after that, it gets fairly WIFOMish.

Unvote, Vote: HEH

I think that it's something about those bars...

[distad]

The vote change is because we're in a super deadline oriented game where we have to get everything jump-started quickly. So, we have to push on more people harder quicker.

No worries, dude... it's just page 1.

[distad]

This is what I get for horribly sleeping in .. I wake up and there's two pages of discussion here already . On with some random voting, I guess ..

Original Roll String: 1d10 (STATIC)

1 10-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

vote: d3sisted

Wait a second, you're 3 and I'm 4 on the list. How does that work?
If you rolled a 4, would you still have voted for me? If that's the case, I am twice as likely as anyone else to get selected on your die.

Not correct. YYC has correctly worked around my biggest pet peeve on this site. People routinely roll the dice with the number alive. But that allows it to end up on yourself, which is fruitless.

However, with 11 alive, he rolled a

10-sided

die.

Pretty quick to jump, though, eh? It will remain noted...

[distad]

Oh good lord...

Analyzing night moves is always WIFOMish. I learned that one in my very first game on here.

I am CERTAINLY not reading a different game for this.

Unvote, Vote: BM

for encouraging this completely fruitless pursuit.

[distad]

I do have an opinion. I thought D3sisted was being defensive and that HEH was chasing a red herring.

Although I had been voting as if we were still in random stage, given that the deadline is Friday, I probably should halt that.

Unvote

I'd have preferred that the first day take 2 weeks and the remainders 1, but that's neither here nor there at this point.

That said, I'm still liking HEH on this. I know that BM said that he was surprised to be alive, but I don't really take that as a scum tell because he's played long enough to know that it would be stupid to bring to our attention if he was scum. But, to take that and run as HEH has done, I believe is a scum tell. It was an incredibly weak point and to blow it up well out of proportion is very scummy. (Drawing our whole focus to something that is minor and WIFOM at that...)

Vote: Hang em High

[distad]

Pressure votes aside, he just needs to contribute, period.

But, you can't seriously think that HeH's continued discussion of a very weak topic to be clean, do you?

Hmm... interesting...

[distad]

Seeing as how we're 3+ days away from deadline, if you could at least bear through this week it would help us a ton. then, if still needed, you could possibly get a replacement over the weekend...

[distad]

That's certainly fair. Much like yourself, I had to run with what I could see.

Unvote

I've been in the position of needing to answer/redirect other's comments before and I do understand that and how it can look.

As for VH, I'm not as concerned about him being scum. (

Note:

This is my turn for meta-gaming.) Typically, when people drop out in the middle of a game, it's because they are not a power role and get bored (or have to choose a game, in which case they opt to keep the power roles). Since VH wants to be replaced, I'm wagering that he is a vanilla townie. We need his participation for these last three days, but I think he's a non-vote.

How about Antipathy? Is he still around or is that just a clever name?
(For all of those Wayne's World fans out there... the bouncer was actually played by Meatloaf. Go back and watch it...)

[distad]

I understand that view, sp, but most of that was done in the random section. The straight unvote was because I specifically wanted to not continue to jump all over the place. I wanted my next vote to be longer lasting.

I don't know about obvious lurking, other than not hearing too much from you thus far. I think we might need to

prod Antipathy

, too.

[distad]

I said that to get a response. No one seems to EVER respond to "it will remain noted." HeH replied immediately. Then I unvoted.

I'm not sure what you mean by scaremongering, but if you mean "scaring into responding" then, yes, I'm clearly guilty.

[distad]

Antipathy... dice rolled an 8, huh?

Where?

(I know he's essentially absent, but we've got to do something to get him in here. Deadline on Friday!!!)

[distad]

Vote: Deadline Extension

I can't figure why anyone would NOT want to do this. If we get to a lynch before it, fine, if not, let's use the extra time.

[distad]

mod

: if we end up getting 2 replacements, could we get an extra day or two in addition to this extension for their benefit? I'd like to keep to the "speed" theme, but I'd also like it to at least be fair for them.

Yes if we need replacements I shall add one more day onto the end. I would not normally do this but in that circumstance it would be best for the game

[distad]

So, I guess Sunday is now the deadline. We need those replacements asap.

I'd wager that neither are scum (meta-game reasons), but their input is certainly crucial.

[distad]

Sure. People TEND (and that is the key word... it's only tendencies, not proof!) to need replacements for inactivity or requests. Inactivity is often due to apathy (although limited internet access is a legitimate concern). Players tend to remain interested in games when they have power roles (and even more often when scum as opposed to cop/doc/etc). Requests happen for a number of reasons. Most of these are offline concerns. Occasionally, they are because a player has committed to too many games and they have to choose which to stay active in. Far more often than not, they will choose games where they have a power role as opposed to a vanilla town role.

It's not proof by any stretch. I usually try to avoid meta-gaming in interest of the actual game, but it does always sit in the back of my mind.

As an aside, SPAG... you might be the only Brit I've ever known to call it 'soccer'. For shame...

I called it soccer so some of you won't confuse it with that silly game that you american's play

As for the extension, I will try REALLY hard to make it online Saturday night before the deadline (it's 7 hours for me, so I can't count on Sunday morning). I'm going to the 'football' national game of the week on Saturday (Cal vs Tenn -- Go Bears!) and might not be sober upon return. I will probably put a vote out prior to the game, just in case, but I definitely intend to evaluate my position prior to the deadline. Just, FYI for everyone.

[distad]

Well... in all fairness... I played 'football'... but I still went to World Cup last year. Of course, we didn't fair as well as we did in Japan/Korea... My wife (who had never followed the game before) is very anxious to get to go to South Africa in 2010. Yup. I've got a keeper!

And BM, I didn't say it was necessarily reliable... it is just a tendency that I've seen.

[distad]

US-Czech Republic in Gelsenkirchen. There were scalpers selling tickets for E400 each. We were in Munich for the Costa-Rica/Germany game, which was OFF THE HOOK! We didn't go to the game (impossibly expensive) but some friends of ours live there and we barbecued multiple pork products and drank beer all night. It was heaven.

They put up a screen at the old Olympic Stadium there to show the game live for people to stand in the park there and watch. They expected some 2-3k, but roughly 50k showed up. The whole atmosphere was electric. I mean... we saw a Costa Rican mariachi band in Munich!?!?!

Then we went up to Dublin and sat in a pub watching the US-Ghana debacle and Italy/CZ games. People out here in the states just can't fathom the intense passion involved with international 'soccer' inside and even outside the stadia in Europe. We don't have a parallel.

/end ooc

[distad]

That's an interesting look, HeH. I missed it somehow in the World Cup discussion. Like I said, it's more of an indicator than vote-worthy, but the off-game post analysis is interesting.

At this point, I think we need to see whom we get and go with their contributions. I don't figure there's much more we can make from this...

[distad]

Well, YYC will probably post in a couple of hours. Who knows when/if Pigg will get on today.

I wouldn't put too much faith in VH joining us even by the end of the weekend...

[distad]

mod

-- How is the replacement-hunting going?

[distad]

SPAG is currently awol. Once we get him back, things will go better.

Still, a little more of a contribution after a week away would probably help curb that, don't you think?

[distad]

I've pm'd him. We'll see.

<sigh>

[distad]

Thanks, Theo.

[distad]

I'm very fine with that. I don't even mind him reclaiming it after he shows up again. I just don't want it abandoned. (I promised my wife that I wouldn't start any new games for awhile to curb my addiction. )

[distad]

Does anybody else find it ironic that the game he's mod/awoling is a Speed Mafia game?

[distad]

Vote: CuriousKarmaDog

Strictly because I wanted to vote Antipathy as he was going awol.

(Read: welcome to the game)

[distad]

Unvote

My vote really was just to have fun with you, ckd. I've never played with Raffles before, so you won by default.

I would have loved Antipathy to contribute... at all... but we got exactly the WRONG group for a Speed mafia game (all the way up to the mod)!

[distad]

I'm leaning more toward 3. '1' seems weak. '2' is weaker. I'm not as concerned with BM right now. I've recently played a couple of games where he was scum/lyncher in both, and I pinpointed him both times. I don't get the same read from him in this game. Further, if "scum would have brought it up", I find it hard to believe that *he* brought it up after saying that. He's far more careful than that.

That said, I don't have anything better at this point.

I'll put together a person-by-person breakdown later this evening (hopefully).

[distad]

Get well soon, Spag!

* * *

d3sisted was in 1 completed game with =Confused=; they were both townies and d3sisted posted some complimentary things about =Confused=, so it's fair to say he was impressed with =Confused='s game and might consider him a threat.

FOS: d3sisted

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

There are two interesting things with this P1 post, especially considering his incredibly far-fetched theory.
1) Creates a meta-game link between d3 and the deceased.
2) Fingers BM for surviving N0.

I didn't put too much significance in his bringing up d3/Confused's previous encounter until looking at his theory again. In this post, he's giving us a brief introduction to the thought that d3 might have plotted to remove an immediate threat. It's played off fairly quickly, but the thought was lingering there. Now, he brings up the thought again as we're getting back to a deadline.

Then, he makes a small punch at BM there. Again, on its own, it's fairly innocuous. But, with his large theory, he's again bringing it to our attention.

Together, these are making me think that he is scum who purposely kept these two alive to create the reasonable suspicions where he could get a fairly easy lynch (or two!) in the first couple of days.

Unvote, Vote: HeH

(which is not a reference to James Brown)

[distad]

EBWOP:

Unvote, Vote: HeH

[distad]

Unvote

I, too, am fine with HeH's defense. There is still a lingering suspicion because of the possibility that I was correct, but I'm fine enough with unvoting.

I'm not ready to comment on the CKD/ChronX debate yet, instead waiting to see the two of them continue to see if anything becomes exposed. The one thing that I do agree with is that CKD has a residual suspicion from when he replaced Antipathy. And I too believe that Mr. Pigg has acted far more heinously than SP. SP certainly should not be applauded, but Mr Pigg has been essentially AWOL through the whole game only popping back in every few pages.

[distad]

Personally, I think the "scum are lurkers" theory holds promise. I just don't see any reason for the scum to expose themselves by saying anything that might draw attention. The problem is there are many possible reasons someone might lurk, only one of which is that they're scum. Just because someone is lurking doesn't mean they are scum, but it does make them a more likely suspect.

On the flip side of the coin, if someone is putting themself out there and actively trying to extract information, I think they're more likely to be town. For day one I think I'm going to give a pass to the players who seem to be digging for information and focus on the lurkers. I suspect a couple of the scum are in that group, so I'm going to look through and pick one of them for my vote. The problem with picking a lurker is there just isn't much to go on. Still, I think that's our best course of action and if nothing else it may get them to start talking more.

I agree with most of this. There is another problem with picking a lurker... often, they don't respond. It is usually really difficult to get a solid response out of a lurker and without much of a defense it is even harder to gain an edge/read.

We are running out of time, though.

I also agree with an SP wagon to get him going, but at least he has been someone reponsive in this game. Where are the other offenders?

[distad]

no, HeH... it seems that he's accusing CKD of bussing SP...

[distad]

Sorry guys, school + wrestling work is killing me,

unvote

Raffles: Whole vote on the guy before you was to get him to talk. He was lurking a bit so I wanted to pressure him into talking about his vote cause I thought it wasn't random. But mostly it was a pressure vote.

I'd like to hear more from the replacements especially for apathy before I make another vote.

Right now I think the seven pages we have are rubbish and really arn't gona help. Maybe when the replacements get here we will have some better posts.

This was Pigg's last post. All of this is crap. This was a week ago and right after

HE

was prodded. He wants to hear from replacements before doing anything? Maybe if *he* was around more often, the seven pages of "rubbish" might have been more impacting! Get back in here and fight.

Vote: Mr.Pigg

[distad]

My comments are in bold within the quote.

I'll ask you to look at all this another way. If I were scum, why would I act this way? There's simply no reason for the scum to draw attention to themselves. In a speed game it is much easier for the scum to lay low, particularly on day 1. If I were scum, the only reason to be as aggressive as I have been would be to try and lead the town into a bad lynch today. But that's the most likely outcome anyway, since there are at most 8 townies left and 6 of us have to agree on a lynch today if we're going to get a mafioso. So being this aggressive would be a very high risk / low reward strategy for a scum to take.

If I were town, on the other hand, my play would make perfect sense. We're on a deadline and we can't wait for the scum to out themselves. We've got to aggressively dig them up, and that's what I've been trying to do.

To summarize my playstyle: I've been actively trying to unearth scum. If you look back over my posts, you'll find that my views have been consistent. I've warned against sitting back and being cautious and have advocated aggressively pushing to unearth scum. I've also been consistent in saying that my metagame findings are weak and that we shouldn't read too much into them. In my opinion, advocating a lynch with specious arguments is scummy, but trying to find possible leads without exaggerating their importance is pro-town. I've really been trying to do the latter, but of course you folks will have to be the judge.

For starters, beginning sentence makes you smell fishy, regardless of your alignment. Don't use it.

I'm not quite sure why you find it fishy, but I'll accept the criticism.

What more, I can tell you why you would act this way, if you were scum.

You argue from the point of view that if you were scum, you would lay quiet, as any good scum would do in a speed game. This argument has a situational flaw.

1. Let's assume you are scum for now. You are the leading wagon. If you lay quiet now, you are going hang for sure. Hence the only way out for you

is

to talk your way out. Since the best course of action is identical for a townie as well, this argument is null.

Of course I have to talk

now

, but the posts I made that put me in the hot seat were done

before

there was pressure on me. What I'm saying is if I were scum I wouldn't have been so active in the first place.

*(1)*

2. You metagame from the POV that scum would lay low. Whilst this is a good tactical play for scum, in the games where I am scum, I often use this to my advantage and be vocal on purpose, and I've seen many others do the same. Hence this point is a classic WIFOM.

While this is true to a limited extent in a regular game, I think it is less so in a speed game. It's harder for scum to lay low in a regular game so being a vocal scum is a reasonable play. However, in a speed game it is easier to lay low until the deadline and therefore too risky for a scum to be overly active.

*(2)*

(1) - This is WIFOM. Because you say this, you could VERY certainly be an active scum to throw off a scent. And bringing that to our attention is a flashing light -- Don't worry about me because I'm posting a lot...

(2) - This is essentially the same point. Anyone laying low is certainly a suspect, but an entire scum team laying low would probably not be the best strategy. I anticipate that part of the team would lurk and part would be active, in order to cover all the bases. For you to claim that you are not scum because you are active does not follow. It just means that you are active.


Also, something to note... Raffles saying, "This is bad. Don't use it." sounds a bit like scumguiding in mid-day... Very minor, but something for me to remember later.

[distad]

no, HeH... it seems that he's accusing CKD of bussing SP...

I don't get it -- CKD was the first vote on SP. How is that bussing him?

I didn't say that I agreed with it!

But, by pressing on the other two while voting for the third seems a little weird to me, too. I'm not sure it's bussing, per se, but it is odd.

[distad]

well, MP's awolism and d3's vacation do stink (although, I'm sure d3 would object). We'll essentially need a unanimous decision from the people who are around to get even a deadline lynch (4 votes required, I think).

I didn't think that SP's comment was a breadcrumb. I've never played with him before, though, so I don't know if he has a tendency for that stuff.

[distad]

I think it'd be a stupid idea to bus on Day 1. The fact that people think I was getting bussed by CKD seems fairly ludicrous. How could you think a first vote on me was a bus? If anything, it'd be classified as a distancing move, not a bus. That's an example of where Distad is using bad logic, which I usually associate with scum.

It wasn't my logic... it was how I was interpreting d3's comment. I've already expressed this. Twice, actually.

[distad]

Homework's for saps.

Only online forum mafia will ever get you anywhere.

TRAITOR!!!

[distad]

First,

Unvote, Vote: d3sisted

I'll explain that in a second...

Now, from what I can tell...
d3 (4): Gorgon, HEH, ChronX, distad

I don't think that anyone else has a vote on... CKD and Raff unvoted.

mod

Please confirm.

The reason for my unvote/vote: It's obvious now that a pressure vote on Pigg is *useless*. He's gone and will be replaced. I had been suspicious of d3 earlier and despite asking for a votecount a day and a half ago, he has yet to post since. This is roughly 50% pressure. I'm putting him at deadline-lynchable (~28 hours away?) to force his hand.

And Raffles/Gorgon, I disagree. I'm in about 6-7 games myself, and despite following along with all of them, sometimes I don't have anything to say about a point. Then, after 20+ posts go by rapidly, despite having read them, I need to go back and reread also. It's not uncommon and certainly not contradictory. I don't like the "declared interest in bandwagons" either, but since I just joined one, I guess I can't complain too loudly.

[distad]

Bandwagons, in general, are necessary. They are. It's just part of the game. But being specifically interested in following bandwagons can be a dangerous sign.

[distad]

The tough part is that during those 24 hours after he requested the votecount (which was promptly provided), he was posting elsewhere! He just didn't come back to comment on what he requested.

[distad]

EBWOP: I guess you mentioned that. I only read the 1st paragraph of your post, HEH, before responding.

Note to self: Read entirely before responding!

[distad]

It is 6 to lynch, 4 to lynch at deadline.

[distad]

I was just looking back at p1 and the confirms that BM mentions and while he is totally correct that they were the last two to confirm, if you look at the times of the two posts by spag (replacement warning and replacement announcement), it appears that Pigg did pick up the PM in the extra 24 hours and HH did not, which seems a null-tell to me.

I'd love it if it were that easy, though, BM!

I'm not fond of PiGG, either, BM. But, I think we're in a better position with the d3 gamble than a no-lynch. I would have no problem unvoting to get a dialogue going on PiGG, but he doesn't seem willing to get back into the game, either, and he doesn't have much steam -- dangerous this close to a deadline. Instead, I'm going to leave my 4th vote on d3 in the meantime unless we get somewhere with Pigg (or someone else), just in case nothing progresses prior to the deadline.

[distad]

Unvote

I have to head out from work right now, but I didn't want to leave him at -1 now that PiGG has decided to join us.

I'll be back in about 2-3 hours after the gym.

[distad]

I'm inclined to vote for PiGG. He has been spotty at best; he's at the same level as d3, in my eyes; and he's rejoining after a long absence just in time to put d3 at -1. And how does he defend it? "Pretty much for all the reasons everyone else has said." Pretty much? That implies that there's something more. Maybe you're bussing a scumbuddy? No one else has said that...

I'll look back to find exactly the minute that the deadline comes and I will see how much time we really have. If it comes down to it and I have to choose between two people that I think are equally scummy, I'd rather pick the person that is 'done' with the game than the person who will be back on Friday.

Good grief.

[distad]

Well, this is a little better. 2pm west coast time tomorrow. That's 21.5 hours from now (and just as I'm finishing work).

We have plenty of time to debate the whole PiGG/d3 scenario out by then.

[distad]

Holy curveball, Batman!

I'm going to sit on this one tonight and get back to it tomorrow morning. 18 hours until deadline.

ugh...

[distad]

I have to spend some time on this.

I understand CKD's comment/vote on ChronX. I still think d3 is the play for today (in my best JDodge impression), but I have to sit and think for a bit.

[distad]

As for the Mason claim, the big question is whether or not we believe it. I'm leaning toward "yes", since I don't see why CKD would make the claim if it wasn't true. The only reason I could see him lying was if he and Mr.PiGG were both scum and he was trying to save Piggy's neck. But if they were scum together I think it would be a bad play for CKD to tie himself to Mr.PiGG -- I think he would be more inclined to bus his buddy. For now I'm going under the assumption that the claim is legit.

I wrestled through this exact thing last night, also. My thought was that CKD would be crazy to totally expose himself. Without a doctor (probably), it would be straightforward to assume that one of them would be NK'd after that, and if they were both scum, neither would be. The focus of tomorrow would return to them and then when one was lynched, the other would be an EASY play for the following day. I can't see it as worth it.

[distad]

I have to spend some time on this.

I understand CKD's comment/vote on ChronX. I still think d3 is the play for today (in my best JDodge impression), but I have to sit and think for a bit.

well you got less than 24 hours to do so

And I'll be posting from work for the next 8. Then I'll check again a few hours later from home. No worries, eh?

[distad]

hey maybe Pigg and I will be lucky and the mafia will just pass right over us Night 1....remember mafia, there is nothing sketcher than a mason claim not followed up by a night kill...

Guh!

I have GOT to read all of the new posts before I respond to one!

[distad]

Of course I agree, CKD. Look at my 339. (followed shortly after by my 'guh' outburst.)

ChronX- We're all a little skeptical of the claim, but claiming right there just DOESN'T make sense if he's scum. Losing 1 scum isn't that important. Especially a bad one.

I also agree with HeH in that we should let them go until tomorrow. We are way too close to the deadline to start over and there will need to be considerable debate regarding the claim. Again, I believe the claim, on its face, but this will likely need to be explored further.

As for d3, his abject avoidance to contribute to his defense prior to leaving on vacation (when he would miss a deadline) is inexcusable, particularly after very spotty play earlier in the day. I know that this has been discussed before, but it is the basis for this

Vote: d3sisted

.

[distad]

EBWOP: Guh. You guys move quickly! My "of course I agree" was in reference to 342.

[distad]

That's not the most egregious part, ChronX. It's that you are voting for a claimed mason. Lynching CKD or Pigg would be terrible today. Sure, we would find out if the claim is accurate, but if it is, the other would be an automatic lynch for the scum and then we have NO freebies on D2. Let's take the gamble elsewhere, find out what happens on N1, and then we'll either have a huge WIFOM argument or a confirmed townie on D2.

Isn't this a no brainer?

[distad]

You can be scum-town mason or town-town mason. I'm wondering which is the case for CKD-PiGG

So you're thinking that one of them might be town and the other scum and you're asking if his role PM confirmed that they both were town? Am I getting that right? If so, to me it doesn't seem likely that a mini-game would have a 2-person mason group in which one of them was scum. A speed game is already tough on the town and such a setup would put us at a further disadvantage. I could be wrong, but I suspect that if we have a mason group that they are all town.

Speculation is all well and good, but nothing beats confirmation. Great thing is neither can lie about this, and it would give us greater insight if either is to emerge.

I don't know how anyone would actually confirm it. Everything is speculation until one of them dies, I would think. (This is my first game with a mason--claimed or otherwise--so I'm figuring this out as we go.)

That said, I think we need to give them the benefit of the doubt for today. I'm sure some of you will disagree, but I think we need time to digest the claim and see where everything leads.

In fairness, I will

Unvote

just to make sure we have the vote count correct. I should not have rushed into that vote.

[distad]

It's more than that, though, BM. His PiGG opinion is dubious at absolute best. Taken in context with the paranoid townie bit (as you call it), it makes a little more sense. But I think that lynching either ChronX or PiGG today would be ABSOLUTELY ridiculous, and FAR more egregious than ChronX.

I still think that d3 is the best play. I just want to get an official votecount before I put my vote back on.

The bond market is getting just hammered right now, so I don't have time to look back through the last 4 pages to put together an accurate vote count. If anyone can devote 10-15 minutes for that, it would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks.

[distad]

I'm hyped up on about 8 cups of coffee right now (over the last 2 hours), so I'm a tad jumpy. Where's the typo? The change of format in the text wasn't expected... I added [occ] tags around that part and I guess the system formats it differently.

[distad]

rather

[distad]

I'm hyped up on about 8 cups of coffee right now (over the last 2 hours), so I'm a tad jumpy. Where's the typo? The change of format in the text wasn't expected... I added [occ] tags around that part and I guess the system formats it differently.

you said Chronx, where i think you meant CKD. Not that it matters-only a moron would have got confused. lol

You're right. That really should be CKD. Thanks, BM. (Holy crazy market right now. I'm trying to keep up with this dialogue while trading all over the place. Good times!!!)

[distad]

As for the vote count:

Public Service Announcement

Since things are moving so quickly here I wanted to know the vote count. I thought I would share my results so everyone knows where we stand.

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

d3sisted (4): Hang 'em High, Mr.PiGG, Atticus, distad
Mr.PiGG (1): ChronX
ChronX (1): curiouskarmadog
Not Voting (5): Battle Mage, Raffles, d3sisted, Sonicpulsar, Gorgon

It's 6 to lynch now, 4 at deadline

Mod: Please confirm

Since then, you have unvoted and everything else has remained the same.

Thanks HeH. I wasn't sure that this had been a fully researched count. Now, with SP's vote, he's back to 4. In spite of BM and SP's analysis, I still think that d3 is the best play today, but I'm not about to put him at -1 with this much discussion still going on.

I'll respond to SP's 'attack' in a few.

[distad]

I disagree with BM's analysis of Distad. Especially compared to Gorgon, I believe Distad is scummier and would be a better play over Gorgon. For some of the same reasons you claim Distad seems very townie to you, I feel make him scummy. Seems he's trying too hard to be pro-town. But I will admit I'm not overly great at reading strong townies vs scum appearing as strong townies. Perhaps you're right and meta-gaming Distad could be of use.

Overall, I think it's too late to start a new wagon on someone else with the little discussion that would follow. Because of this, I'm forced to think D3ssisted is our best play simply because he's been discussed at length. I think his lynch will yield the most information.

I'm not sure where to go with this. Obviously, I think you're wrong. You come on strong, then back off. Interestingly, that's the same critique that BM had for Gorgon.

There's more to the d3 lynch than just him having been discussed ad nauseum, also. He's been on/off aggressive through the whole game. He's had faulty reasoning on his attacks. His defense has left a lot to be desired. (All of those have been stated before, and I don't currently have time to reference exact posts again, but if necessary, I can after work.) Until PiGG graced us with his fleeting presence (and consequently forced CKD's hand), d3 was the de facto lynch today. Things have certainly changed here, but I don't think they changed that much.

[distad]

<sigh>

Well, if there's any good news, it's that I might not have to worry about that pesky job thing tomorrow.

We just got *decimated* today.

That said, I'm going drinking in 37 minutes, right after the market closes. I doubt that I will get back to this tonight. I'm sorry guys. I've just never seen anything like this before.

<sigh>

Because I likely will not be back today, and as it seems discussion has slowed considerably from earlier, I will put d3 at -1 as promised.

Vote: d3sisted

Hope to see y'all in the morning, and gainfully employed as well!

[distad]

Hey, come on guys...

I'm well beyond any constructive analysis at this point 8) , but isn't anyone else going to add something before the deadline? 7.5 hours?

[distad]

6 more hours...

Maybe at some point in the next couple of days you can have a look at the last 5-6 pages and see if there's something else to pick apart.

[distad]

While I certainly don't advocate cheering that the two 'deceased' are 'only' vanilla, we are rather fortunate that a cop/vig/etc didn't get killed.

On top of HeH's analysis, I just don't believe that we have an SK at all. If there actually is a 3-person mafia as he suggests, adding an SK would be weighted WAY too heavily against town. I don't buy it.

I'm also inclined to believe the mason's claim, if only because we probably do have something like that to help swing the balance back toward town. My only guess as to why scum wouldn't have taken them out is because it would have proved that the remaining one definitely was town, as opposed to having two probablies. It's all WIFOM, though. It just seems HIGHLY unlikely (and potentially costly) that ckd would claim mason as scum to provide an 'alibi' for PiGG. Of course, if it were a gambit, it worked amazingly well.

I'll join in and give a player-by-player analysis hopefully later today at work.

9 alive, 5 to lynch, and it seems that the deadline is Wed, Oct 3 at 1:21pm Pacific Time -- 9:21pm England Time (correct?)

[distad]

I'm very interested to hear the logic behind what HeH is suggesting to be the game setup. As far as i can tell, having that many protown power roles would severely unbalance the game.

I keep kicking this around... We've been running under the assumption that both masons are town. What if one of the masons is scum? Considering PiGG's play through D1, this seems at least very possible to me. I doubt that CKD would claim mason for himself and PiGG if CKD were the scum-mason. If we do, in fact, have a scum-mason, I bet that it is PiGG.

I agree with BM that if a cop can nail one of the two of them as scum that it would behoove the town to know it, but if a cop can identify one as town, I don't think it would be as beneficial to claim this early. Losing a claimed mason (and confirming the other) is much better than confirming the two masons and losing a cop to an NK, IMHO.

[distad]

I agree with BM that if a cop can nail one of the two of them as scum that it would behoove the town to know it, but if a cop can identify one as town, I don't think it would be as beneficial to claim this early. Losing a claimed mason (and confirming the other) is much better than confirming the two masons and losing a cop to an NK, IMHO.

Interesting, as I said before. I can not quote PMs..but we are both town and we both know each other as town. So if one of us is scum or town so is the other. You will just have to take my word on this. I do not think the cop should come out yet, unless someone is about to be lynched that he knows to be pro town…or he has a scum hit.

I'm not trying to get you to quote your pm. As much as I'd like proof, I do respect the mod's rules. What I'm trying to get at is HOW you both know each other as town. If there's a way to say it without quoting the pm, were you told that the both of you are town (specifically as opposed to inferred)?

Really what I'm getting at is, despite your being town-mason (which I believe, even in a town/scum mason pair), is it possible that PiGG is still scum? Because until your claim saved him, I had him pegged as dead-to-rights scum.

[distad]

I didn't see the request. Sorry, BM. I've been slowly working on a comprehensive list with descriptions of everybody, but I haven't had enough time to finish it here today. I'll get the rest of it worked out tonight/tomorrow and I certainly will get it out here with plenty of time before the deadline.

LS:
1) Mr.PiGG - This is with a HUGE asterisk, but aside from the claim, I certainly see him as the scummiest.
2) Atticus
3) HeH
4) Gorgon

[distad]

Okay, ChronX... *NOW* it would be a ballsy gambit.

[distad]

It's more than that, Gorgon.

426 and 428 are classic "nothing posts made to look like hunting"

He assumes that BM is innocent (and again points out that he 'is') and then creates scenarios where ANY of the remaining 7 people can be scum.

How is that helpful? I see it as a shotgun approach. Spray the attack out wide and follow an ensuing wagon.

Vote: HeH

[distad]

Okay... here's my list: (This is the first one of these that I've ever put together, so please bear with me... )

Battle Mage

- Actively hunting. Throwing out theories. I didn't like his pushing Gorgon then backing off after Gorgon defended himself. I'm unsure of the cop-logic, also, but it looks like he figured out where it was flawed. I still think he's

town

, but I'm ever aware of Stoofer's 5th Law.

Gorgon

- Battle Mage put this pretty well. He passively follows along with a lot of the theories presented. Followed BM early, then me. Now he's throwing feelers out there today. (Subtle jabs at ChronX, ckd, HeH.) I'm thinking

scum

.

CKD

- This one comes completely to the role claim. I don't see any reason why he would do it if he were scum. I've said that a few times. ChronX brings up a reasonable point where if you were GF, it would be a cool and ballsy play by you where you would be investigation-immune to boot. I don't think it's particularly likely, but certainly plausible. Even in a town/scum mason combo (this is my first game with claimed masons, so all of my experience therein comes from the wiki), I believe him to be a/the

town

member.

Mr PiGG

- Wow. CKD saved your ass. You were the lynch du jour until he claimed. If there is the above-mentioned town/scum mason pair, I'd bet money that you are the scum of the two. There is always the possibility of a false claim. The claim is the ONLY reason I'm not voting you. It hurts to do so against all fibers of my logic, but I'm saying

town

(with a huge scum foundation). Wow.

HeH

- Again, I don't like the recent analysis. It essentially points a finger at 7 different people without taking a stance on anyone (other than BM, whom he has found innocent). I'm betting (and voting)

scum

.

Atticus

- Over the last 5 pages, I've seen precious little here. I have to look earlier and re-analyze, but all you've said is that you anticipate a strong night session and that you don't have time to reread the game. This is essentially posting just often enough to not get prodded. I suspect that he is

scum

, but I need to see more.

Sonicpulsar

- Obviously I didn't like his attack on me yesterday. He's typically not around often enough for me to get a good read on him, though. He has done more active, positive hunting than Atticus, and at this point, I'm guessing

town

.

ChronX

- I agree with his WIFOM-skepticism and his cop-not-claiming logic. I think that (1) if we have a cop and that (2) said cop got a guilty claim on one of the two masons, it would be worth coming forward about -- knock out two scum on one swoop. Otherwise, there's no point in clearing one person at the expense of a power role. He seems actively hunting and nothing has struck me as anti-town. I think he's

town

.

[distad]

Sorry it took so long to get that done.

[distad]

My thought on this, CKD, is that BM *is* the cop. I think he's throwing out those cop questions to try to get the scum to believe he isn't a power role and to NK elsewhere.

I look forward to your quotes. I might be wrong. Show me the argument and I'll work from there.

[distad]

I only mentioned it because you did.

I think that he brought it up to distract a possible NK then when it was turning against him, he backed off.

I have no answer as to why he claims he wasn't rolefishing. I do agree that it looks like he did, whether he agrees or not.

[distad]

just throwing this out there..

but if we have three mafia...I could easily see a chronx/BM/distad pairing.

Also, distad and BM are going back and forth praising each other as pro town...something is not sitting right with me in this exchange as well. BM is in the middle of this too.

CKD - I didn't push the BM-innocent angle nearly as much as HeH did. If you look at my analysis on the previous page, there's another point Re: BM that I noticed. He came out swinging at Gorgon (both 'yesterday' and 'today') and then backed off very shortly afterward. I'm fond of the 'stick to your guns' approach, and he is definitely not doing that, either.

[distad]

Atticus - I'm wondering where that earlier post was where you claimed Gorgon was unhelpful in his posts... To an extent, I agree... but based on this more recent analysis (and given how LIGHT your posts have been, I doubt it was 5-6 pages earlier...), you're now accusing Gorgon of what you accused

HeH

of just one page ago...

Alright, if I had to kill 3 people right now, they would be ChronX, HeH, and Gorgon.

ChronX because he does post often, but it seems to me he rarely has his own opinions, or is actually scum-hunting.

HeH because, like ChronX, he posts often, but it's hard to see anything that's very hard-pressing.

Gorgon I just get a bad feeling from. Not sure why.

I know this really isn't much, but I believe the mason claim, I believe I know who the cop is, BM looks town, and distad appears very honest and unscumlike.

So, essentially, you're saying that you changed this opinion after the attack went onto HeH?

[distad]

Well, it's not bulletproof that they are town/masons. They could still both be scum combining for a gambit. That's just me playing devil's advocate. I still think it's legit.

9 people are left, not 10.

It's fine if you think ChronX, HeH, and Gorgon are doing the same thing. You might think that now, but you certainly didn't say anything about that in your analysis. You said that you 'said it before' that Gorgon was doing that. I'm trying to find out where.

Atticus - I'm wondering where that earlier post was where you claimed Gorgon was unhelpful in his posts... To an extent, I agree... but based on this more recent analysis (and given how LIGHT your posts have been, I doubt it was 5-6 pages earlier...), you're now accusing Gorgon of what you accused

HeH

of just one page ago...

Alright, if I had to kill 3 people right now, they would be ChronX, HeH, and Gorgon.

ChronX because he does post often, but it seems to me he rarely has his own opinions, or is actually scum-hunting.

HeH because, like ChronX, he posts often, but it's hard to see anything that's very hard-pressing.

Gorgon I just get a bad feeling from. Not sure why.

I know this really isn't much, but I believe the mason claim, I believe I know who the cop is, BM looks town, and distad appears very honest and unscumlike.

So, essentially, you're saying that you changed this opinion after the attack went onto HeH?

[distad]

Excellent. Thank you.

[distad]

Here's the end-of-D1 vote analysis I promised...

Player: vote

Gorgon: d3sisted, MrPigg, unvote
Distad: MrPigg, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted
Sonicpulsar: MrPigg, unvote, d3sisted
ChronX: d3sisted, MrPigg
Atticus: d3sisted
HeH: d3sisted
BM: Gorgon

From that, I'm seeing Distad, Gorgon, Sonicpulsar as possible scum (in that order).

Another point of interest is ChronX's most recent vote on Gorgon. By my count, that is the fourth following/BW vote he has cast this game. That exceptionally suspic if you ask me.

FoS: distad, ChronX

Because I unvoted? That's crazy. You(1) acted very suspicious through most of D1 and then your(2) predecessor had been acting weird/lurking before throwing out a HUGE curveball.

This is just OMGUS.

[distad]

It's not being wishy washy. Look at that sequence of events.

D3 was acting very suspicious. I clearly wasn't the only person thinking that.

You (Pigg) come out with an out-of-nowhere comment/vote. It was ridiculously dirty. Still, I didn't vote for you(Pigg). I unvoted from D3 until I could figure out what was going on.

CKD makes the mason claim. I move my vote back to D3 where it had been prior to the chaos.

I did not jump wagons. I simply backed up to figure out what was going on.

ChronX flopped. Gorgon flopped. I did not.

And amusingly, I noticed the gender change and thought I had totally missed it before.

[distad]

d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted

is the textbook definition of wishy-washy.

Unless the circumstances of the day made me uncomfortable with the vote.

[distad]

Okay... just for you, d3, I looked up wishy-washy in the dictionary. It says "lacking in determination".

Fine. I agree. I stand by all of the moves, but yes, it was certainly wishy-washy conviction.

[distad]

HeH - As far as I'm concerned, take your time. Those are some pretty big RL issues to worry about. I know we're under a deadline, but know the priorities.

Good luck.

[distad]

Unvote

HeH is finally doing what we've been asking of him and my vote is no longer necessary here.

[distad]

EBWOP: This does not clear him, IMO. My biggest hit on him was that he had no content in his posts, which appears to be changing.

[distad]

He has had very specific bits of analysis, which is a big difference from Day 1. While he is maintaining this, I'd like to turn my focus to the other two people whom I considered to be scum.

[distad]

I thought his comments re: ChronX were very appropriate and to the point. His thoughts on you, while possibly out of context, do not seem incorrect, either. I do think you're slightly blinded on that point because they are directed towards you.

[distad]

I'm looking at Atticus or Gorgon.

How about yours?

[distad]

I'm on Gorgon.

I remain convinced there is ONE scum between HeH and Sonicpulsar, but too close to call which.

I'd say HeH is scummier than SP.

QFT

[distad]

Totals:
Gorgon - 4 (Distad, ChronX, BM, HeH)
HeH - 4 (ChronX, Gorgon, SP, Atticus)
Atticus - 3 (Distad, Gorgon, HeH)
ChronX - 3 (CKD, d3, Atticus)
Distad - 2 (SP, d3)
SP - 2 (ChronX, HeH)
BM - 1 (CKD)
CKD - 0
d3 - 0

[distad]

AGAIN, lynch BM today, and if he doesnt turn out scum, then you can string me up tomorrow without argument, I will even provide the first vote.

I don't like this at all.

If we miss, we're likely left with 7 people. Assuming that 3 are scum, we'd ALREADY be in lylo!

[distad]

Chronx: Gorgon, Hang 'em High & Sonicpulsar

Yeah. He chose 3 people. HeH has 3 also for the same reason.

Any reason both of the masons chose ChronX? Distancing?

[distad]

so do you agree with BM that if we mislynch today..we MUST lynch a mason tomorrow?

Absolutely not. We'll be suspicious, but there should NEVER be a 'must lynch' scenario.

[distad]

That's all WIFOM. That's why I was bringing the other side up.

Slow down. I can't keep up with the parallel conversations.

I'm saying that I would have to consider it. That said, I still believe the claim. There are little things that pop up that make me question it, but the fact is that I don't see *any* benefit in your saving PiGG (d3 - 2) on D1 if you were scum. It's just not logical.

[distad]

distad, will your vote follow soon since chronx and I are distancing or was that just fluff talk?

I already said that I brought it up just as the WIFOM side of your argument.

Still, I have to admit that I'm intrigued by ChronX's theory. I hate lynching a claimed townie, but if we end up tomorrow in lylo with two suspicious people as claimed townies, we would really be in trouble.

@Chronx-i see your point-we are actually in a precarious position. Its hard to see 3 scum though, in a game with only 2/3 power roles and 10 total players. Even so, i dont think killing a mason today is atall wise. If we havent hit scum by tomorrow, we should look at them very hard. As far as i can see, we can narrow down the group to a few potential scumbags, so in theory, we should be able to pull this off, even at LyLo if necessary.

But there were 12 players originally... 2 scum in 12 seems very light.

The part that I'm having trouble shaking, though, CKD, is that I've been touting your claiming mason on D1 as illogical as scum because it would be opening you up to more scrutiny. But, with the "if BM comes back town, lynch me" play, there is a lot more doubt. Surely, if we do lynch BM and he comes back town, you'll say "but don't lynch me, because I'm town and it's lylo." You'd have to.

Maybe this really has been a play from the get-go. Suppose you are scum and it has been a huge gambit. You anticipated our not lynching you yesterday. We had a lynch going, then PiGG comes out of nowhere. Thinking on your feet, you claim mason. It's close to deadline; we'll put it on the shelf until the next day. Then today, you figure we'll look elsewhere for the lynch, but when someone comes at you, you turn it into a "lynch him and then lynch me tomorrow if I'm wrong".

Then, what if BM comes back scum? Do we just blindly trust that you're not scum? Maybe that's the biggest gambit of all! You guys set up a situation where the two masons bus the third guy to gain infinite trust and then you waltz to victory.

Guh.

If we lynch one of you, and you are telling the truth, the scum will likely NK the other, and then we lose the benefit of having one of you officially confirmed. Granted, the cop (if we have one) would get an additional night to search, but it really would not be worth it.

We've got just under 2 days. I'll think about this some more tonight and I'll be back in the morning.

[distad]

Altho, can't fault a girl for tryin'.

HA!!!!

[distad]

Ah... two straight deadline claims. First CKD, now ChronX. Great.

I'll reserve judgment on ChronX's claim until the 3rd party verifies -- and no, CKD, it was not me.

I have to admit... I'm leaning toward a CKD lynch. I don't like thinking that we'll be in lylo with two unverified masons tomorrow if we miss today. Two things could come from this:
1) CKD is scum, which means we've outed 2
2) CKD is a mason, and scum has to choose between a claimed tracker and a confirmed mason.

(1) is ideal, but (2) is much better than questioning the veracity of your claim tomorrow in potential lylo.

Vote: CKD

Deadline is about 3 hours from now?

[distad]

Sorry that I didn't get to jump in, earlier. I had to deal with "Non-Farm Payroll" this morning and the mortgage market was hopping.

I understand what HeH is saying. The last thing we want to do is give scum another power role option to NK. However, it would be nice if we could confirm ChronX now. Otherwise, we could end up in a similar position as if we left the pair of masons alive.

[distad]

Good Lord, BM. I left my window open. I've been watching football and cooking. I'll get back into this game after that game.

[distad]

I did not target you on N2, BM.

Atticus - there were fewer than 10 new posts since Friday. Do you really need to go back through all 29 pages again?

[distad]

Hey, BM... settle down. It hasn't even been 24 hours since daybreak.

Look, I'm anxious, too. I want to find out whom ChronX can confirm as much as everyone else does. However, getting unjustly prod-happy as you have over the last 20 hours is inexcusable.

Simma-down.

And yes, this is totally OMGUS from your demanding that I get involved yesterday. You've been around this game for WELL too long to do that. It's completely uncalled for.

[distad]

I'm just saying that my venting was, in part, the lingering frustration from being called out 90 minutes into the day.

Ftr, I always leave a window open here at my house, because I hate needing to log-on when I get to the computer. It's not a problem at work, for some reason.

[distad]

Well, to be honest, I get suspicious, too. But, often I have to remember that people are in multiple games, and sometimes people leave their window open (as I do). I don't like it when people make themselves invisible (on the forum index page), but that's certainly their prerogative.

[distad]

Okay... I'm back. It was a VERY needed long weekend.

All of these claims are particularly interesting to me. HeH and SP are breadcrumbing and I'm curious about Gorgon's claim (particularly why he would randomly RB on Night 1 without any information).

Frankly, I feel left out. Everyone has these neat roles and I get nothing.

I'll wait to see BM's and Atticus's theories and hopefully we can put something together.

[distad]

What I'm saying is that it seems risky to me to use the RB on Night 0 when none of the game has been played. I've never had that role before, though, so I guess I shouldn't question that particular game-theory.

The breadcrumbs were large, more like chunks of bread. Saying that they will claim later today after they've heard more. Whether true or not, they are implying that they have a power role.

My claiming vanilla was more of frustration because almost everyone in this game has had something to claim and I certainly drew the short stick. We're all going to end up claiming today anyway; it was not unwarranted.

[distad]

The breadcrumbs were large, more like chunks of bread. Saying that they will claim later today after they've heard more. Whether true or not, they are implying that they have a power role.

Where did SP say he was going to claim? I'm not seeing it ...

He said that he did not target BM - then EBWODP that he did not target him on N2, specifically. I assumed it to mean a power role.

[distad]

lol its ok dude. I've said i have no problem with claiming first. But, the thing that does bother me is not knowing who Chronx actually saw targetting me. Not that it has any impact on my claim itself, but it does have serious impact on what we should do next.

I don't see why ChronX needs to say this before we claim.

QFT. If BM's claim doesn't depend on ChronX, specifically, what's the hold up?

[distad]

I think he's waiting for ChronX.

[distad]

[resisting urge to request mod-prod of BM]

[distad]

He should be out of class by now. We'll see.

[distad]

ChronX, can you at least confirm that it was either Gorgon or HeH that you tracked to BM without stating which of the two it was?

At least that might start some progress.

[distad]

ChronX, is the person you tracked to BM definitely either Gorgon or HeH?

[distad]

<sigh>

[distad]

I didn't see you logged in, either, BM. I specifically looked for it, also.

[distad]

BM - I don't understand how you can't recall if you are missing something. Don't you still have your role pm?

[distad]

Role: Jack of All Trades

Ability:
several 1-shot powers which can be used at night.

At the start of the game i had:
1 shot Cop Investigation.
1 shot Doc Protection.
1 shot Roleblock.
1 shot NK Immunity.
1 shot Redirect.
1 shot Vig-Kill.

I may have forgotten one, but i think thats it.

Bolded for emphasis.

[distad]

I agree. Although, I plan to add a little extra tomorrow, anyway. So, get it while the getting's good!

[distad]

BM should be returning from class pretty soon. I anticipate an answer by the time I get back from the gym (which I'll be leaving for in about 45 minutes, FYI).

[distad]

Hmm.. I guess I had my time zones off by a couple. I was thinking 7:30 when it came out as 9:30.

[distad]

<sigh>

[/tapping impatiently]

[distad]

not the strongest claim in the world by a long shot. The odds of having a Tracker and Cop and Jack of All Trades (3 roles with investigative capability) is very slim, and thats without also having a RB, 2 masons and a Doctor.
I also find it hard to believe that Distad is town.

I'm reserving judgment until we hear from ChronX. I, too, find a lot of this rather fishy.

[distad]

Hey... I'll be back on in a little while. I just found out that my company was purchased late last night, so I'm not sure whether I need to get drunk or work on my resume or both.

BRB.

[distad]

Well, I'm piecing this together in between conference calls (<sigh>), but this is what I have thus far:

I believe that BM, ChronX and HeH are all scum.

1)They spent the first 4 days of 'today' bickering. It's a huge distancing ploy that kills time so that now when the information is out there, we're under time-duress.

2)BM's claim is way too powerful. Vig, Doctor, Cop, RB, NK-immune, 'Reflector' ?? Good lord. Further, his explanation of =Confused= night doesn't make sense. If he figured that he would be killed, why wouldn't he have used his NK-protection that night? And if it is a standing protection that automatically is used the first night that he is targeted, why would he be surprised at all? He couldn't have died. It just doesn't make sense.

3)ChronX comes out with the idea to lynch a mason. Unfortunately, I agreed. BM knows that they're not scum, so pushes like all hell to not kill them that day; only to revisit them at lylo. After one died, they NK the other to remove the only confirmed townie. Then, the next morning, the first thing BM says is, "I hate it when I'm right." HA!

4)ChronX states that he's a tracker (non-confirmable) and says that he tracked someone to BM. He asks who targeted him, knowing that if no one else claimed to track him, one of the scum would certainly say "I did. I'm" such-and-such role. At that point, BM states that he's confirming ChronX and whomever targeted him (because he clearly didn't die, so that person MUST be a pro-town role).

5)ChronX claims a weird result from Gorgon. The whole time, I assumed that it was BM-ChronX-Gorgon. But, by claiming this weird result, he knows that in lylo, by spinning the town against Gorgon, it would be a scum-win.

6)HeH claims cop and has night results clearing BM. This alone doesn't ping the scumdar much. BM could certainly be a Godfather. The part that gets it is that only Gorgon and HeH said that they targeted BM on the night Raffles died. But, ChronX's weird claim against Gorgon shines the spotlight on HeH.

There it is.

Care to respond, guys?

[distad]

ok a few pretty significant problem with this analysis. The largest issue is probably the fact that if Chronx and I are scum, Gorgon has to be scum, as does HeH. 4 man scum-team would already have won i think, so your entire theory is physically impossible.

Why does Gorgon have to be scum with HeH? Becaue they both claimed to follow you? ChronX couldn't know if someone else followed him, also. The plan stands on needing one person to claim him.

Furthermore there are a few problems with your analysis of my claim in particular. I dont know what you mean by 'reflector'-in my experience the role is typically referred to as Redirector or something similar.

ticky-tacky. The point is still there.

You should also remember that these are only 1 shot powers.

Not forgotten...

My actions on Night 0 make total sense when you think about it. I could have used NK immunity to ensure that i survive to Day 1, but as the game wore on, the chance of me dying via NK would increase exponentially. I figured that the scum are going to take a pop at me on Night 2 if they shoot me on Night 1, so i might aswell try to get some information in case they do make a cock-up. Plus i was hoping that i would get Doc-Protection anyway.

You can hope that all you want. But the fact is that if you don't make it past N0, you help NO ONE. It still doesn't make sense.

Oh and the NK-immunity is not as you say it is. I choose it as my power for 1 night only, making me immune to NK for that night. Again, a 1-shot ability.

In other games that I've played, a 1-shot NK immunity goes into effect the first time you're targeted to be killed. You don't have to say "I'll be NK-immune tonight." The reason I brought up both sides is that EITHER WAY, you guarantee surviving N0!!!!! No need for surprise!!!!

I'm not even going to assess the rest of this analysis, because it is built entirely on lies and misjudgements and impossibilities.

I believe that I have refuted your arguments. Please come back and respond to the rest.

ftr, i really dont like the fact that Atticus isnt saying much. If he is town, we REALLY need his input. If he is scum, i dont want to see him lurk his way to victory...

BM

Well, I'm piecing this together in between conference calls (<sigh>), but this is what I have thus far:

I believe that BM, ChronX and HeH are all scum.

1)They spent the first 4 days of 'today' bickering. It's a huge distancing ploy that kills time so that now when the information is out there, we're under time-duress.

2)BM's claim is way too powerful. Vig, Doctor, Cop, RB, NK-immune, 'Reflector' ?? Good lord. Further, his explanation of =Confused= night doesn't make sense. If he figured that he would be killed, why wouldn't he have used his NK-protection that night? And if it is a standing protection that automatically is used the first night that he is targeted, why would he be surprised at all? He couldn't have died. It just doesn't make sense.

3)ChronX comes out with the idea to lynch a mason. Unfortunately, I agreed. BM knows that they're not scum, so pushes like all hell to not kill them that day; only to revisit them at lylo. After one died, they NK the other to remove the only confirmed townie. Then, the next morning, the first thing BM says is, "I hate it when I'm right." HA!

4)ChronX states that he's a tracker (non-confirmable) and says that he tracked someone to BM. He asks who targeted him, knowing that if no one else claimed to track him, one of the scum would certainly say "I did. I'm" such-and-such role. At that point, BM states that he's confirming ChronX and whomever targeted him (because he clearly didn't die, so that person MUST be a pro-town role).

5)ChronX claims a weird result from Gorgon. The whole time, I assumed that it was BM-ChronX-Gorgon. But, by claiming this weird result, he knows that in lylo, by spinning the town against Gorgon, it would be a scum-win.

6)HeH claims cop and has night results clearing BM. This alone doesn't ping the scumdar much. BM could certainly be a Godfather. The part that gets it is that only Gorgon and HeH said that they targeted BM on the night Raffles died. But, ChronX's weird claim against Gorgon shines the spotlight on HeH.

There it is.

Care to respond, guys?

[distad]

Well, at least I got the ChronX part right. Even if only that he was lying about being tracker. (LAL?) At least that evens the balance a little.

In looking back, I think I overstepped a little on my theory. It doesn't seem super likely that HeH is scum. No one else has claimed cop, and it seems reasonable that there would be one.

BM's biggest problem with my theory was that there couldn't be 4 scum. Well, leaving HeH out, ChronX/BM/Gorgon as a trio still works. That would mean that BM is the Godfather.

I have to sort this all out in my head. I'll be back later tonight.

[distad]

HeH -- Either Atticus or myself could have been RB'd on N2. Neither of us would know to be able to refute it.

[distad]

I didn't remember him claiming. The point I was making was that there are people claiming vanilla who wouldn't know if they were RBd or not.

[distad]

See, here's the tough thing for me, ChronX. I agree with the BM/Gorgon line today. The problem is that I think you're there with them. I nailed the fake-claim, also. I, too, saw Kravhen's gambit (I believe that was the game to which Atticus referred...), and I'm having trouble figuring why you would come out and say that it was fake at this point if you were scum running a gambit.

The only two that I can come up with is that you wanted us thinking that it would be illogical to do it as scum so that you would come out clean (with a few of us suspecting you -- it sets up a great WIFOM); or, you're really town trying to find a way to catch a few scum in lies -- which might have worked if it didn't come down to YOU being the liar.

We're only 50 hours away from deadline. Let's get some more discussion going and then we can put together a vote from there.

My current LOS:
1) ChronX
2) BM
3) Gorgon
(And I think 2/3 are essentially tied at this point.)

Obviously, I'm not voting until we get closer, but we've got to get something going.

[distad]

The problem with that ChronX is that a lot of what unfolded happened BECAUSE of your "ploy". Now the scum have all of the information. They know what everyone is claiming. They know where everyone went.

That's the part that I'm tripping on. It doesn't make sense for you as town to fake-claim and then come back and admit to it so soon after. It only makes sense to me if you are trying to get as much information as you can for the scum, sacrifice yourself, and then have your buddies use it all against us the next day, still in lylo.

[distad]

What I can't figure out, BM, is why you're pushing Gorgon so hard when ChronX totally played you on your recent claim, pushing our time for FOUR days while he postured with you on who would claim first, and then he finished it with a total BS claim. If your claim had been different, would he have run through his gambit? I mean, if you're not scum, how can you ride Gorgon so hard without even glimpsing at ChronX?

It just screams scumbuddies. Please tell me how I'm wrong, because I really want to vote ChronX.

[distad]

What I can't figure out, BM, is why you're pushing Gorgon so hard when ChronX totally played you on your recent claim, pushing our time for FOUR days while he postured with you on who would claim first, and then he finished it with a total BS claim. If your claim had been different, would he have run through his gambit? I mean, if you're not scum, how can you ride Gorgon so hard without even glimpsing at ChronX?

It just screams scumbuddies. Please tell me how I'm wrong, because I really want to vote ChronX.

Okay. I acknowledge that you have not been riding Gorgon since, I guess, early 'today'. With him being mentioned so much recently, I interpreted your "hypocritical" comment incorrectly. That was my mistake.

That aside, my curiosity still stands.

[distad]

Okay. We're coming to a deadline in just over 24 hours.

Vote: ChronX

He's been at the top of my list and we have to get something started if we are going to make it to tomorrow.

[distad]

I take it you want the town to lose, Distad?

Absolutely not. I have had you repeatedly on my LoS, and most recently at the top. I like your case on SP, actually. I still think you're scum, though, and at this point I have to vote for whom I feel most strongly.

You can say that you made a ploy that didn't work out well, but the actions are what we remember, and they were decidedly anti-town.

[distad]

Like I said, BM, I liked ChronX's case on SP. It's certainly believable.

I still like ChronX more, though. I'm going to look back through and see if I can find anything from the first 10-15 pages that stick out, other than the 'lynch a mason' adventure.

[distad]

It wasn't the lynch-a-mason adventure on its own. That's not why I brought it up. Again, I totally bought into the argument. I don't think I would have thought of it and it made sense.

But it STILL is something. And taking that with your "I'm a tracker" ploy, it all adds up. You claimed tracker, and BM wasted his protection on *you*. Now, you are claiming town, implying a wasted protection. Wouldn't that have been much better served on d3, a 100% confirmed townie?

So, yes. I think you are the scummiest candidate.

[distad]

I'm trying to see your argument, HeH, so bear with me, please.

Why do SP and Atticus have to be goons in your first post? (or direct me to that original post so that you don't have to type it all out again)

[distad]

I buy that there is a Godfather. I, too, believe Gorgon's claim. There is a 4th alternative that you are not mentioning.

You could be scum with a given cop fake-claim. We have taken the assumption that you are town because no one else has claimed cop and "surely" there would be a cop in the game -- it is among the most basic roles. However, this is a theme game, and I can very much accept the possibility that you were told in your pm that there are no cops, to be used specifically as a safe-claim. It would be a very powerful tool and would easily balance the town power roles.

2 masons, JoaT, RB vs Godfather, 2 Goons with cop safe-claim.

[distad]

HeH - I just finished a game where the serial killer was told that there were multiple cops in the game so that he could use it as a safe claim.

Occam's razor is great... unless it's a theme game where anything really could go.

I do think your logic of Gorgon holds up, though, assuming that no one (other than ChronX) has been misleading.

[distad]

HeH, let me remind you that I wasn't me yet on the night Confused died. Survey Says was doing this job (poorly, or not at all) back then. As best I can determine, SS just didn't bother to use the power.

Nice flavor.

[distad]

I followed Gorgon on the night Raffles died. He went to BM's house.

The problem for me was, Gorgon has acted weird this whole game. And he was alluding to claiming due to the pressure BM had been putting on him to claim. And he hammered CKD, although claiming not to have realized he was doing so.

So I followed him again on the night d3sisted/mason was killed. Here's where it gets weird...he didn't go anywhere. His claim is that he went and blocked Atticus.

The problem I have with all of this is that I don't know what it means. Was I roleblocked but not informed, and instead just told he stayed home, as that what it would seem to me? Or did he lie? Or did he lie, but only about who he roleblocked...maybe he roleblocked ME because he doubted my claim, and THAT is what made me get the result I appeared to get. Or maybe he is a mafia roleblocker and roleblocked me because he DIDN'T doubt my claim.

I dragged out sharing this because it is so ambiguous, and I wanted as much untainted info as I could get out of people before I spoke of it. Personally, I wanted to press SP and Atticus to claim before I posted this, but I didn't think the rest of you would have any patience with that, and didn't want to jeopardize my credibility (further). I also wanted to see what people's reactions to HeH's claim would be while it was still fully in doubt (as, unfortunately, it is).

I don't know how to analyze any of this, and will gladly respond to further questions if they will help others analyze.

Here's why I'm going to continue voting for you, ChronX. There are not a lot of set-ups that provide for Gorgon to be pro-town. But this is all lies and misdirection. The WHOLE thing. It is entirely a figment of your imagination. It was created to get us analyzing. But we have been analyzing an alignment that you made up. There's no rhyme or reason for any of it except to get us thinking in several different paths -- the ultimate misdirection.

[distad]

Hey... I'll be back on in a little while. I just found out that my company was purchased late last night, so I'm not sure whether I need to get drunk or work on my resume or both.

BRB.

I've been meaning to ask how this went. Hope your job is O.K. (or you at least got a great buyout).

Thanks for asking. I'm sure that our 'fearless leader' was rewarded handsomely, but the rest of us are still maintaining a tenuous hold on our jobs. I really won't know much more for another month, and so it is going to be a VERY long month.

[distad]

I suppose I don't count if I have an objection?

Distad, your logic is stupid. Blame BM for who he wasted his

alleged

protection on, not me. I urged the CORRECT play with regard to handling the masons. Also, everyone seems to have completely/conveniently forgotten that CKD was giving off more scum vibes than Roach (we've all been in games with Roach, right?).

The reluctantly OK, we'll go for the mason bandwagon crowd is MUCH more suspicious than me; I was pushing for a claimed-mason lynch all along. Why would I do that as scum? Try to answer without resorting to an acronym crutch, you are already abusing LAL.

Man... you're missing the boat on this one. We can't blame BM for wasting his 'alleged' protection. He made the logical move based on your LIE! I agree that a mason was the right play. I said it then and I'll continue to say it. If we were in this position with someone else dead, I'm sure one of the masons would end up on the block and it would likely be game over. The point is that if you had simply said, "Lynch the mason," we would be fine. But you said, "I'm a tracker! Lynch the mason!" and so that one-night of protection was squandered because of you. Stupid logic, my ass.

Why would you want a claimed mason lynched? Because then you could Night Kill the other without leaving a confirmed town in its wake. You couldn't know that BM would have a protection (unless he's scum, in which case you both devised for him to 'have' a protection). It was actually perfect for you.

[distad]

Home from coaching. Remind me why I volunteer every fall? Oh right, I love MY kids. Don't much care for anyone else's especially after 7 weeks. *sigh*

Anyway.

I'll read the rest in a second. I coach HS baseball. I *totally* understand.

[distad]

I think anyone town would understand what I am doing when I posted that "gem"...interesting your perspective on this game pervents that...

my vote on you is a good one.

Anyone town would think that you are setting up a WIFOM argument if neither of you are killed tonight. That's what I think.

In a small game, a false claim (like yours appears to be) is gold if you can sell it to the town.

Straight from the horse's mouth...

[distad]

I was discussing this game with a friend from work who plays Diplomacy. We came up with an analogy:

When you aerate your lawn, you dig up those little plugs that look like duck poop. Anyone looking at your lawn, and not wanting to touch duck poop, wouldn't really know if you had duck poop on your lawn, or had aerated. A logical person would assume one of the 2 situations though.

Here's the problem at mafiascum: (continuing the analogy). If my neighbor told you that he had seen me aerating my lawn, mafiascum players would then conclude that I USED to have duckpoop on my lawn, and had aerated my lawn to cover up the fact that I had duckpoop on it by mixing in the little dirt plugs.

Not conclude. Consider. It would be considered as a possibility until the logical conclusion came together.

Distad, you are following the same logic. You are overthinking my claim and unclaim. I didn't unclaim because "Atticus caught me in a lie". I claimed to set a trap, and to advance the agenda I wanted advanced.

What trap? Where was that going? You pushed and pushed and pushed with repeated and colorful responses until you finally relented. And when you unclaimed, you said that you were reluctant to do so.

I also honestly thought I had claimed something crappy and would be a decent sacrifice to keep anyone real like a cop or the masons, safe. I unclaimed because I thought there were a few townies who could see the fallacies constructed on the foundation of my lie. I underestimated the reliance of players on this site on their beloved acronyms, like LAL.

It's not just that. I've already discussed other reasons for my vote. This is, however, the most poignant.

YOU aren't voting me because you think I'm scum and always have. You saw me as one of the most town players BEFORE my claim. You believed my claim, so you must have continued to think of me as town.

BS. I claimed immediately the flaws in the claim and called you out on it in 869.

You weren't even all that sceptical of my claim later. No one really was; Atticus has been pushing against me for a while for flimsy reasons (he accused me of following others logic, shortly after which he admitted to reading less than half the game); pressure from Atticus was no reason to unclaim.

Again, I pushed immediately on not believing the claim and turned the focus to you.

I unclaimed because I overestimated the logical abilities of the town. I should have continued to play out my hand, and stuck with my original frustrated reaction during the non-lynch while CKD was still alive, which by the way, continued on PAST the original deadline of Oct 3. No one was going anywhere, despite the fact that a no lynch put us FURTHER behind than a mislynch. Dead doc, remember?

Tha mafia have done a masterful job of paralyzing this town into fruitless inaction. You either ARE mafia (I still think unlikely, if we only have 1 mafia) or are being their willing victim. You are now getting caught up in LAL nonsense instead of looking out for what is best for the town.

I am NOT the best lynch today. There is NO reason for me to have unclaimed beyond another misguided attempt to get the town to see the light. The RIGHT play was to lynch a mason, even if the masses had to be duped into doing it. The right play is NEVER to place unquestioning trust in someone who claims, which is what everyone did with the mason claim, my claim, and all the claims that have followed. If I had been scum, there would be NOTHING to be gained for me to unclaim and subject myself to this barrage of illogic.

Except for massive misdirection...

Its also ridiculous to propose that as a mafia member, I benefitted from lynching a mason. If I had been mafia, I would KNOW the masons weren't part of my mafia and gain NOTHING by having them verified publically.

It's not about verifying them. You certainly could not NK one of them, because it would leave the other as 100% confirmed town. By creating a lynch opportunity, you were able to NK the other leaving no one as confirmed.

The mafia know who ALL of their enemies are, Distad. They don't need anything verified.

I posted an excellent case against SP earlier today,

And I said that I liked the argument. My eyes are stuck on you right now, though.

and he vanished like Roadrunner and hasn't responded. The case for Gorgon is strong and fits any number of what if scenarios.

But I don't see him as the best play. There are a lot of what-if scenarios that work for him, but these are based on what people are claiming as actions/results of someone else. Yours is based on what you claimed of yourself.

They are the best 2 places for a townie to place their vote. BM, heH and yes, you Distad, are as suspect as me, whether or not I am believed to be town. Neither is a good vote today, because of unsurety. A vote on any of those 3 would be anti town. By the same rationale, your vote on me is....anti-town, because it exposes the town to lynching a town member.

[distad]

I'm looking forward to this... drunken posting by the mod!

Awww... it has GOT to happen!

[distad]

I can still SP acting peculiar. I think we might be safest with a

Vote: SonicPulsar

today. I'll be on before deadline if this needs changing btw.

See, I don't understand this. There are way too many scenarios where he is not scum and we'd lose.

HeH- I'm on ChronX, with Gorgon as my second choice.

[distad]

Well, we need Gorgon to RB the NKer and we need you to vig scum. If we can do that, we get another day... of course, assuming that ChronX is town. I believe that only that combination will get it done. Of course, if Gorgon is scum, it's lost.

[distad]

Don't expect Theo to come back sober today...

Russia 2 - England 1 (Final)

[distad]

Used in forums. When someone posts right before you finish yours and had the same thought you did, you have been Sarnath'd.

from "Urban Dictionary"

[distad]

EBWOP: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 090#678090

[distad]

Sorry, ChronX. No, I don't believe wholly in LAL. Obviously, it doesn't always stand true.

But, I'd have to say that it worked rather well for us.

[distad]

I started to get really worried when everyone was turning on Gorgon. As the RB, we needed him more than anyone else -- we needed to keep BM from vigging anyone.

This was my first non-replacement game as scum... and man did I enjoy it.

[distad]

I think you played it fine, HeH. There were a few things that went greatly in our favor:
1) CKD's saving Pigg. With the two of you as claimed masons, the town essentially had to lynch one of you. We waited as long as we could to NK one of you to make sure that neither would be confirmed by our actions.

2) ChronX's fake claim. We were able to lynch him based almost solely on that. Further, we would still have NK'd d3, and not knowing if BM would protect him or not.

3) BM's fighting with CKD and ChronX/HeH helped us a lot because it took us away from the spotlight and ate up lots of time.

[distad]

Yeah. Pigg looked amazingly scummy and I loved every second of it. My unvote was really a panic along the lines of "crap. um... which way is the tide going... what looks most benevolent..." I'm glad that I didn't fully vote for him, though, because I think you guys would have lynched me if i had actually switched wagons instead of merely unvoting.

[distad]

A bad day for the town, turns into an even worse night. Sonicpulsar is given the orders from his Godfather Distad to kill an innocent, Gorgon is sent to deny Battle Mage the chance to be a hero.

Sonicpulsar has no trouble in dispatching Hang em High, he reveals he was . . .

Hang em High, Cop, Town Aligned - killed ruthlessly

Sonicpulsar swiftly met back with his comrades and with little hesistation they moved quickly to the meeting hall to confront and overpower Battle Mage and Atticus, the mafia had won!!

Battle Mage, Jack of all Trades, Town Aligned - endgamed

Atticus, Vanilla Townie, Town Aligned - endgamed

The victors -

Distad, Godfather, Mafia Aligned
Gorgon, Roleblocker, Mafia Aligned
Sonicpulsar, Mugger, Mafia Aligned

GAME OVER.

damnit. As it happens, me vigging should have been the last of the scum's worries of late-the only way we could possibly have won last night is if Gorgon somehow forgot to Block me, and i managed to redirect the scum NK onto the culprit. I figured Gorgon wouldnt do the deed, and it was out of Atticus and SP. I chose Atticus, so Gorgons block was really irrelevant in the end. By the end of the game, Distad wasnt even on my suspects list.

I'm a bit annoyed that we lost this game, because i feel that, barring the strange claims, and complicated roles, we ought to have won. Distad and Gorgon were my top suspects from the very beginning, although Sonic avoided my suspicion very well, so kudos for that. I hate to say it, but had Chronx not claimed Tracker, or had Gorgon not been lucky enough to RoleBlock me, i would have vigged either Distad or Gorgon for sure. Unfortunately, the excess of power role claims proved to be more of a detriment to the town than a help.

As far as Chronx's fakeclaim goes, i dont think he should get stick for it. In fact, as someone who lies as town on a regular basis, I reckon, if you're anything like me, you can see a logic for your play which nobody else can. I'm willing to trust your judgement on that. The thing that really hurt us was not the claim itself, but the timing of your confession. It couldnt really have been any worse as far as i can see. You would've been far better off simply keeping up the lies at that point.
Anyway, you learn from your mistakes i guess.

I'm also glad that i had Distad pegged for most of the time (until the last day really). Revenge for the fact that he finds me so damn easy to read.

I'm ashamed about the whole lynching CKD thing, but tbh, we werent left with alot of choice. It was either lynch someone who was probably town, or trust him implicitly, and lose the game with 2 consequtive mislynches. There was no middle-ground, something i'm pleased to see that CKD recognises.

I stand by the statement that LAL is the biggest heap of crap ever.

Oh and as it hasnt been brought up yet, i did lie slightly about my role. I didn't have 1 shot NK immunity-i just invented it in the hope that it stopped the scum from targetting me. :p
Ooi-did you guys buy that aspect of the claim?

BM

I bought it. I had no reason to not. Once we knew what your role was, though, we were RBing you from the get-go. I actually sent in the orders (RB you, NK HeH) within minutes of the hammer. There was no hesitation in it.

And our experience in past games is why I left you alive through the game. I specifically stated during N0 that I wanted to leave you alive and try to throw dirt on you throughout the day to get you lynched. Plus, I figured that you could get a good read on me and trust that I was vanilla.

My only concern was that I was defending Gorgon a bit. I felt that he was key to our winning, so I kept steering things away from him. I had a little bit more sway because I kept coming up innocent in investigations.

As for vigging us, when we NK'd =Confused=, SP got the doc powers for one night. We RB'd you, but SP protected Gorgon that night, as well.

I'd wager that Spag had more power roles mixed in there, but I certainly welcomed their turning into vanillas.

My last point was something that I mentioned to Theo. I didn't enjoy finding out that BM learned he was RB'd without having to burn one of his 'options'. I was going to be very unhappy if that ended up the turning point of the game.

[distad]

But... looking purely from logistic grounds, it's stupid. You lynched a (as good as) confirmed mason...

I'm not complainin'.

[distad]

7. Player of the game, Distad. Hadn't fooled HeH since he investigated you, but were town enough to make him put some faith in his results on you after the investigation. Stayed out of all the controversy, and whined about not getting a cool role very believably.

Thanks. That was one that I pulled on my own. I knew that you guys would be suspicious if I simply claimed vanilla, so I bemoaned that fact. And HeH said that he investigated me because he thought I was innocent so as to rule me out, which I loved to absolutely no end.

If the claims had come out later, I was going to claim a one-shot vig, but BM's claim totally killed that for me.

[distad]

After we made it through D2 with a mason lynch, we were already high-fiving each other. That was the swing point for us.

I was very happy with Gorgon and SP's work and I would gladly join a game with them again, whether scumbuddies or not.

[distad]

Something else of interest is the amount of talk we had about GF's. I wasnt sure at the time whether it was scum pushing a mislynch under misinformation, or a genuine scum slip-up. Either way it seems pretty interesting.

Once it was brought up, we had to continue with the thought. Frankly, I'd have MUCH preferred that it was never discussed at all. Then I would have been totally cleared by HeH's result.

[distad]

Gorgon and I actually had a conversation about this. I couldn't understand why you were so certain that I was town and that Gorgon was scum. I figured that you were a cop and got innocent/guilty on the two of us. But I was also worried that you were a vig. I was assigning you more choices than you had been able to make at that point (3 with only 2 nights), but I was right in that you were 'multi-talented'.

For my own self-edification, how were you so sure that I was scum?

[distad]

EBWOP: That was regarding BM's post.

[distad]

If he targets someone and that person dies, he gets to use the ability the next night.

That's why we had SP do all of the NKs.

[distad]

We were absolutely going to leave them alive for as long as we could. We had no intentions of NKing them. We did not want to confirm ANYONE as town, and NKing one of them would have done precisely that. Additionally, NKing elsewhere increased our chances of hitting a 'useful' power role.

[distad]

At that point, PiGG was replaced by d3sisted. Further, CKD is the one who "confirmed" with the mod that they both knew each other to be town. If it was a town/scum mason pair, it was reasonable that he was the scum part.

[distad]

BM, I like you. I like how you play. It's generally tough to fool you, because you examine almost every possible scenario.

However, we rolled you in this game. Because I knew that, I coached the other two to play off of it and encourage arguments with other players. We totally played off of your occasional hot-headedness to breeze to the win.

Again, I like how you play. But, you need to temper some of that and let things happen around you, whether you like them or not.

(I recommend red wine. It helps heal all that ails ya. Plus, it gets you drunk. )