Mini 490: Speed Mafia - GAME OVER.

[ChronX]

Based on my earlier FoS

(unvote if needed)
vote Hang em High

Something weird about the way Atticus is playing this game. IGMEOY

[Atticus]

Wait, who's the other person?

[ChronX]

EBWOP:

So no one can accuse me of voting without stating reasons, I FoS'd heH in post 432, summary:

Sort of one of those classic, appearing to be helpful deals.

A lot of words, not much content except unsolicited affirmations of own innocence.

[Atticus]

Ah, I left out SP. I think he plays well, and I can't get a read on him.

[Gorgon]

So Atticus' possible cop was not the one he left out (SP) ... jeez.

I don't much care for the cop talk that's been floating around. Assuming there is a cop, and he has a guilty, he should come forward at some point today. Otherwise he should not, and we shouldn't be talking about it, and especially avoid giving anything away that might point to who he might be, or even who we think it might be.

'Nuff said?

@Atticus - okay, so you've narrowed down the field through a Sherlock Holmes-esque process of elimination, and used some generic phrasing to cast suspicion on the three remaining players ... but if you had to choose one to lynch right now, who would it be, and why?

[theopor_COD]

I'm looking for a replacement for PIGG.

[curiouskarmadog]

just throwing this out there..

but if we have three mafia...I could easily see a chronx/BM/distad pairing.

BM has yet to answer my question and addressed my last post directed toward him, and chronx just let the fact that BM seems to be rolefishing drop quite easily…matter of fact, I have questions outstanding to BM that needs to be addressed, and Chronx doesn’t wait for BM to answer before he votes and appears to have dropped the pressure. BM simply says “I am not looking for the cop”, and Chronx just lets it go?

Go back and read BM’s post that I posted on the last page. He is clearly looking for the cop. He says he isn’t, but look at the posts and you be the judge. Also, distad and BM are going back and forth praising each other as pro town...something is not sitting right with me in this exchange as well. BM is in the middle of this too.

I think BM is our lynch today…go back and review his plays for yourselves…going back myself again, to pull some quotes that have stuck out to me..

[distad]

My thought on this, CKD, is that BM *is* the cop. I think he's throwing out those cop questions to try to get the scum to believe he isn't a power role and to NK elsewhere.

I look forward to your quotes. I might be wrong. Show me the argument and I'll work from there.

[curiouskarmadog]

ugh, why do we keep having conversation about who might be the cop? Explain why then he said he wasnt asking the cop to come out, when he actually did.

[distad]

I only mentioned it because you did.

I think that he brought it up to distract a possible NK then when it was turning against him, he backed off.

I have no answer as to why he claims he wasn't rolefishing. I do agree that it looks like he did, whether he agrees or not.

[curiouskarmadog]

I only mentioned it because you did.

I think that he brought it up to distract a possible NK then when it was turning against him, he backed off.

I have no answer as to why he claims he wasn't rolefishing. I do agree that it looks like he did, whether he agrees or not.

I brought up that Bm was rolefishing..I never wanted to discuss who i thought was a cop or if we have a cop.

think BM needs to comment now...going to reread a bit when I can

[distad]

just throwing this out there..

but if we have three mafia...I could easily see a chronx/BM/distad pairing.

Also, distad and BM are going back and forth praising each other as pro town...something is not sitting right with me in this exchange as well. BM is in the middle of this too.

CKD - I didn't push the BM-innocent angle nearly as much as HeH did. If you look at my analysis on the previous page, there's another point Re: BM that I noticed. He came out swinging at Gorgon (both 'yesterday' and 'today') and then backed off very shortly afterward. I'm fond of the 'stick to your guns' approach, and he is definitely not doing that, either.

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, I can see that (need to reread), but again, BM is in the middle of that too.

[Atticus]

@Atticus - okay, so you've narrowed down the field through a Sherlock Holmes-esque process of elimination, and used some generic phrasing to cast suspicion on the three remaining players ... but if you had to choose one to lynch right now, who would it be, and why?

Umm, you. As I've said in an earlier post, that while you post very often, they are often not content...ful. Many of them are comments on the game's condition/setup/mod. Many others are either simply agreements to other points or non-committal remarks. Also, I get a feeling from you that you are trying to do everything possible to not look scummy. In truth, you could possibly be a perfect townie, but I'm not sure. That last point is rather WIFOMy.

I guess that means

Unvote

(not sure if I'm voting someone or not) and

Vote: Gorgon

.

[Gorgon]

Well, at least you took a stand, even if it's the wrong one. You're the third person now to find me scummy. Fine ... although the 'Too Townie' argument is always flawed. Ironically enough, I don't believe I have even been 'Too Townie' in this game, at least not at the outset ... there is much room for improvement where it comes to my focus on scumhunting. If the majority truly believes I am the lynch today, I will go down with honour; at least it will give you some information.

I must stress, though, that HeH has been quiet as of late, and much less active today than I have been. Yes, this can be seen as pointing the finger elsewhere, but what else can I do than try to guide people towards what I know is more likely to lead to a scum lynch than lynching me? In general, I very much fail to see how I have been less helpful/more scummy than HeH in this game. Interestingly, BM, who initially said I'm scummy, has yet to analyse him. I am very much waiting for his input at this stage; he has some things to answer.

[Gorgon]

Btw, I am now thinking Atticus is HeH's partner. The third one I'm not so sure of though, but I'm leaning towards SP, or even BM.

[distad]

Atticus - I'm wondering where that earlier post was where you claimed Gorgon was unhelpful in his posts... To an extent, I agree... but based on this more recent analysis (and given how LIGHT your posts have been, I doubt it was 5-6 pages earlier...), you're now accusing Gorgon of what you accused

HeH

of just one page ago...

Alright, if I had to kill 3 people right now, they would be ChronX, HeH, and Gorgon.

ChronX because he does post often, but it seems to me he rarely has his own opinions, or is actually scum-hunting.

HeH because, like ChronX, he posts often, but it's hard to see anything that's very hard-pressing.

Gorgon I just get a bad feeling from. Not sure why.

I know this really isn't much, but I believe the mason claim, I believe I know who the cop is, BM looks town, and distad appears very honest and unscumlike.

So, essentially, you're saying that you changed this opinion after the attack went onto HeH?

[Battle Mage]

wtf? is it impossible for someone to change their mind around here?
I thought a cop claim was a good idea-then when Chronx made his point about a GF, i realised i was wrong.
IS THAT OK?
Wow, your behaviour is getting tiresome...

What about this post (which came before)

I also agree with what Gorgon is saying about the masons. Personally, i dont think we should look at them today. If we have a Cop, i highly reccommend that they come forward, if they can prove that the claimed masons are in fact scum. Otherwise, we should leave them till tomorrow at least. I find it hard to see 2 scumbags claiming masons, unless there was a 3rd member (which is likely anyway). We could be dealing with mafia power-roles here, which i am a little wary of.

clearly a cop does not need to present themselves yet..

I think, if the cop can either prove or disprove the mason-claim, he should come forward. Obviously if he cant, he should stay hidden until he can. Of course, it would mean losing the Cop, but, in killing the Cop, the scum would clear 2 people from our suspect list. I think its worth it.

again more pushing…why not have the cop wait, until someone is close to being lynched before he comes out. Misrepresenting you my ass.

and again, why do you keep giving us your protwon list unprovoked?

[Battle Mage]

My thought on this, CKD, is that BM *is* the cop. I think he's throwing out those cop questions to try to get the scum to believe he isn't a power role and to NK elsewhere.

I look forward to your quotes. I might be wrong. Show me the argument and I'll work from there.

lol i'm not the cop. Nice work exploiting the blatant hypocritical role-fishing from CKD. His pushing to lynch me, and to out the cop, are very suspicious. His mason-claim makes him a bad play for today, but he is well worthy of an

FoS: CKD

I mean come on! At best your scumdar is so far off that you are becoming a well-meaning detriment to the town. Do you seriously think i would rolefish so unsubtly as to ASK THE COP TO CLAIM!? ffs, you obviously dont think much of me as scum...
If you have more questions, ask away. I'm getting a protownish vibe from HeH but i think i need to read the last few pages with a clear head. I still think Gorgon is the best play today.

BM

[ChronX]

BM, don't you know that changing your mind is a scumtell? Tunnelling is a scum tell too...if you say your mind is made up and you won't change it, thats a scum tell. To avoid a scumtell, you have to proclaim yourself openminded but not actually change your mind.

If you lurk and don't contribute, its a scumtell. If you are TOO protown, its a scumtell. If you are too aggressive about trying to get someone lynched, its a scumtell. Now, Atticus tells us that if you don't press hard enough, its a scumtell.

Too many players on this site believe that by badgering someone about every last electronic utterance, they can discover subliminal, unintended clues to the person's orientation.

I DO believe that scum can give themselves away, but not in direct response to "you're lurking" accusations. The flow of votes, who chooses to pressure and when, the meaty versus trivial content of their posts when not under pressure, these are the things that town can and should look for over the course of the game.

[Battle Mage]

no dude-BACKTRACKING is a scumtell. Changing your mind based on new evidence come to light, is a null tell. In fact, in most cases, i'd consider it a small town tell, as very often, newb scum play the consistency-card, to look like they feel strongly in their suspicions, but in actuality, they are avoiding commenting on new information.
lol saying your mind is made up is not a scumtell. Obviously being close-minded is bad play, but often townies are as guilty of this as scum.

I'm not commenting on the rest as i expect it is mostly valid. All i will ask is:

WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT POST? lol
I dont really understand what it was in response to...

BM, don't you know that changing your mind is a scumtell? Tunnelling is a scum tell too...if you say your mind is made up and you won't change it, thats a scum tell. To avoid a scumtell, you have to proclaim yourself openminded but not actually change your mind.

If you lurk and don't contribute, its a scumtell. If you are TOO protown, its a scumtell. If you are too aggressive about trying to get someone lynched, its a scumtell. Now, Atticus tells us that if you don't press hard enough, its a scumtell.

Too many players on this site believe that by badgering someone about every last electronic utterance, they can discover subliminal, unintended clues to the person's orientation.

I DO believe that scum can give themselves away, but not in direct response to "you're lurking" accusations. The flow of votes, who chooses to pressure and when, the meaty versus trivial content of their posts when not under pressure, these are the things that town can and should look for over the course of the game.

[ChronX]

Turn up your irony detector, BM. I was mocking the play of 85% of the people on this site, who trump up scumtells and actually believe that they have caught themselves a scum. But simultaneously in another game, they will find a scumtell which is the exact opposite of the former one.

[Battle Mage]

ok thats all well and good, but how was that relevant to a particular part of THIS game?

[ChronX]

Said another way: the WIFOM paradox as it applies to lurking. If one declares that LURKING IS A SCUMTELL, then one will avoid lurking corect? But what happens when one is in fact scum...does the very act of receiving the email informing one of that role cause one to become hopelessly lurky? Of course not, thats ridiculous; one knows lurking is a scumtell, so one won't lurk. So, NOT lurking becomes a scumtell, because everyone knows lurking is scummy and so the scum don't lurk so as to appear not scummy.

This applies to hammer voting when not at lylo (hammering is considered scummy, so no one hammers, even if they are honestly convinced of the merit of the lynch). This applies to jumping on early wagons (scum like to hide in the middle of a wagon, so wagons don't get formed, because people are afraid to be in the middle of the wagon).

The point I am making is that all of these former scumtells are well known; even newbies get lectured on them early and sternly. They are useless as scum hunting tools. You need to look at connections between players and evaluate when you see a pattern emerge that might signal protection, or distancing, or a pre-orchestrated maneuver. Then you have to use your gut and your feel for the players and decide if it suggests a scum pairing/team. You'll notice that I usually point out possible collections of scum in my analyses.

[curiouskarmadog]

wtf? is it impossible for someone to change their mind around here?
I thought a cop claim was a good idea-then when Chronx made his point about a GF, i realised i was wrong.
IS THAT OK?
Wow, your behaviour is getting tiresome...

whoa what?…anybody just catch this back pedal? First he says that people are misrepresenting him by saying he wanted a cop claim. He then says.

Atm, i DONT WANT a cop-claim, but frankly, i dont think it would be unreasonable if i did, at the rate we are all claiming atm.

BM

I show is lie was what it is by posting two of his quote when he asks the cop to come out…NOW, he is saying he changed his mind..

Which is BM, did you change your mind (meaning you DID want the cop to come out) or were you misrepresented when people said you wanted the cop to come out.

Now he says I am the one rolefishing...what? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED THE COP TO COME OUT, THEN LIED ABOUT, THEN BACK PEDALLED, then OMGUS FoSed me, bad bad play

Caught you scum.

I want to hear comments on this!