Mini 490: Speed Mafia - GAME OVER.

[Atticus]

That you weren't... a tracker.

[Atticus]

And I apologize again, ChronX, for being under the radar for so long. In matters of disrupting the game, though, I'd say you've done worse than me.

[Hang 'em High]

Wow -- this game is making my head hurt. I have to spend some more time absorbing all this, but here are a few thoughts at the moment.

I don't like ChronX's unclaim. I thought he was a likely GF before and this certainly doesn't make me think more highly of him. On the surface I don't see why a pro-town player would lie like this. Coupling my previous suspicion with wanting to lynch a liar makes me tempted to vote him now. But since we're likely in LYLO we can't take that chance. I'm going to reread to see if I can believe that a Vanilla Townie would lie like that.

Ugh, sorry BM. I recalled incorrectly. You

did

say you were roleblocked before I said I was a roleblocker. It was only HeH who said he was roleblocked after I said I blocked him. This means that either you're some sort of protown scum role, or your claim is correct. Otherwise there is no way you could have known I blocked you that night, unless you were just guessing wildly, which is an unfair assumption.

While this may be true from your perspective, there's another reason BM would know in advance who you blocked -- you could be scum together. If BM is the GF and you're a Scum RB, he could claim you RBed him and then you could come out and confirm it as a way of making it appear you were both protown power roles. Of course if this scenario were true then you would have RBed somebody else N2; the fact nobody has come forward and said they were RBed then makes it a little less likely.

Right now I'm still leaning toward a Scum trio of ChronX (GF), Gorgon (RB) and either SP or Atticus.

[distad]

HeH -- Either Atticus or myself could have been RB'd on N2. Neither of us would know to be able to refute it.

[Hang 'em High]

True, but it also depends on the timing of the claims -- I'll have to look back. I don't know if you had claimed Vanilla yet. If they actually blocked you but executed the gambit I described above where BM claimed he was blocked, they would have risked you coming out and saying you were RBed as well. Not that they couldn't have done this anyway, but it would make it a little riskier and hence somewhat less likely. Of course if you had already claimed Vanilla they would have realized they were safe making such a gambit.

Also, any reason you didn't include SP in this list?

[ChronX]

So, is the town going to sit on its hand afraid to vote? Lynch or Lose is an expression for a reason.

Unless the town believes there are only 2 mafia and that we aren't at LyLo yet, in which case, decide whether you should lynch me for my stunt or lynch one of the people I outed making up facts to suit other facts that turned out not to be facts at all or lynch someone else.

Here is a summary:
1. ChronX, claimed and since recanted tracker. Never saw anything except the need to lynch a claimed mason.
2. Battlemage, claims to be Jack of ALL Trades, and roleblocked on Night Raffles died.
3. Gorgon, claims to be the visitor I didn't actually see to BM on Night Raffles died. Followup claimed Roleblocker of HeH night confused died, BM on the night Raffles died, and Atticus on the night d3sisted died. Hammered CKD. Regarding the d3sisted I bandwagon, late, he comments that he supports it but "EBWOP: Okay, 5 votes now, so I sure am glad I didn't vote ... "
4. HeH, claims to be another visitor to BM on the night Raffles died. BM must make great pastries. Per claim, Roleblocked Confused night, investigated BM on Raffles night, investigated Distad and got an innocent on D3sisted II night.
5. Distad, vanilla and bummed out about it.
6. Sonic Pulsar, vanilla, while massively breadcrumbing not vanilla.
7. Atticus, vanilla.


When BM described his reason for investigating SurveySays, he said that he had an interesting "/in" post.

Here it is:

/in for Spag's game!

Well.


So, LAL me, if you don't believe we are at LyLo.

If you do believe we are at LyLo, and you believe both BM and HeH, then you can't lynch BM, HeH, me or Distad, as all are protown investigators or cleared by an investigator. At LyLo, you can't run about speculating about Godfathers and lynch a townie who has a clear in their favor. By the same token, you couldn't really lynch Gorgon, since both investigators claim to have been roleblocked.

That would leave Atticus and SP. Others suspicions of them are well documented.

I lean toward disbelieving BM and Gorgon while being neutral on HeH; he could be in on it, he could be sanity challenged or otherwise not able to get a positive on certain players. If the latter, I'd throw Atticus in as third mafia slightly ahead of SP, although SP and HeH...I still think there is something to that dynamic.

I see Distad as the most protown of all of us.

[ChronX]

By the way, to refer back to my first sentence

The same fear of casting a first incorrect vote and allowing the scum to hammer if there are 3 of them also applies to the deadline, since it will only take 2 to lynch at deadline.

[distad]

I didn't remember him claiming. The point I was making was that there are people claiming vanilla who wouldn't know if they were RBd or not.

[Hang 'em High]

My comments in bold within the post.

So, is the town going to sit on its hand afraid to vote? Lynch or Lose is an expression for a reason.

Not afraid to vote, but afraid to vote rashly. Obviously we've got to decide before deadline, but the deadline isn't here yet. One townie mistakenly voting for another will cost us the game (assuming we are at LYLO) -- if the scum are all watching they can quicklynch. Once we've all decided on the best candidate then we can vote -- but not before.

Unless the town believes there are only 2 mafia and that we aren't at LyLo yet, in which case, decide whether you should lynch me for my stunt or lynch one of the people I outed making up facts to suit other facts that turned out not to be facts at all or lynch someone else.

Here is a summary:

Thank you for this summary -- it does help. I'm still going to look back to confirm though, since I hardly trust you.

1. ChronX, claimed and since recanted tracker. Never saw anything except the need to lynch a claimed mason.
2. Battlemage, claims to be Jack of ALL Trades, and roleblocked on Night Raffles died.
3. Gorgon, claims to be the visitor I didn't actually see to BM on Night Raffles died. Followup claimed Roleblocker of HeH night confused died, BM on the night Raffles died, and Atticus on the night d3sisted died. Hammered CKD. Regarding the d3sisted I bandwagon, late, he comments that he supports it but "EBWOP: Okay, 5 votes now, so I sure am glad I didn't vote ... "
4. HeH, claims to be another visitor to BM on the night Raffles died. BM must make great pastries. Per claim, Roleblocked Confused night, investigated BM on Raffles night

for the record, he came back innocent

, investigated Distad and got an innocent on D3sisted II night.
5. Distad, vanilla and bummed out about it.
6. Sonic Pulsar, vanilla, while massively breadcrumbing not vanilla.

Can you point out where? I don't recall this offhand (there's a lot going on).

7. Atticus, vanilla.


When BM described his reason for investigating SurveySays, he said that he had an interesting "/in" post.

Here it is:

/in for Spag's game!

Well.


So, LAL me, if you don't believe we are at LyLo.

If you do believe we are at LyLo, and you believe both BM and HeH, then you can't lynch BM, HeH, me or Distad, as all are protown investigators or cleared by an investigator. At LyLo, you can't run about speculating about Godfathers and lynch a townie who has a clear in their favor.

I'm not so sure about this. I think we have to speculate about a GF since it's key to the interaction. I don't know that we want to lynch a GF today, but we need to discuss the possibility.

By the same token, you couldn't really lynch Gorgon, since both investigators claim to have been roleblocked.

So? Just because it seems very likely he is a roleblocker doesn't mean he's a protown RB. I think it's quite likely he's a Scum RB.

That would leave Atticus and SP. Others suspicions of them are well documented.

I lean toward disbelieving BM and Gorgon while being neutral on HeH; he could be in on it, he could be sanity challenged or otherwise not able to get a positive on certain players. If the latter, I'd throw Atticus in as third mafia slightly ahead of SP, although SP and HeH...I still think there is something to that dynamic.

I see Distad as the most protown of all of us.

[ChronX]

/agree with your comment that Gorgon could be scum RB. I was trying to be as objective as possible. My lynch candidate for today, hands down, is Gorgon, based on his play as well as his claim.

SP said, when responding to whether he targetted BM, that he specifically didn't target him on night 2.

[distad]

See, here's the tough thing for me, ChronX. I agree with the BM/Gorgon line today. The problem is that I think you're there with them. I nailed the fake-claim, also. I, too, saw Kravhen's gambit (I believe that was the game to which Atticus referred...), and I'm having trouble figuring why you would come out and say that it was fake at this point if you were scum running a gambit.

The only two that I can come up with is that you wanted us thinking that it would be illogical to do it as scum so that you would come out clean (with a few of us suspecting you -- it sets up a great WIFOM); or, you're really town trying to find a way to catch a few scum in lies -- which might have worked if it didn't come down to YOU being the liar.

We're only 50 hours away from deadline. Let's get some more discussion going and then we can put together a vote from there.

My current LOS:
1) ChronX
2) BM
3) Gorgon
(And I think 2/3 are essentially tied at this point.)

Obviously, I'm not voting until we get closer, but we've got to get something going.

[ChronX]

I prefer the term "ploy" to "lie", but semantics. Part of my problem here at ms is that the game doesn't play the way it is played at the last site I played on. Over there, PMs are allowed among everyone all the time, and there are roles (for example, a pro-mafia but not in the initial circle of trust role) which encourage gambits...people routinely claim cop in the open, and mafia-cop via PM even more often, to try to trap people. i.e., over there I would have first confided my ploy to someone via PM. Its dangerous, but does tend to advance the game much more quickly than things transpire here. Since this was speed, it seemed a reasonable venture to try here. I hadn't really thought out the lack of the independent verification (and yes, sometimes one mistakenly chooses a mafia member to independently verify...but with 24 or 48 hour deadlines, you play differently).

Theres not much new I can offer. I've provided my analysis based on what I kniow and what I saw unfold.

[distad]

The problem with that ChronX is that a lot of what unfolded happened BECAUSE of your "ploy". Now the scum have all of the information. They know what everyone is claiming. They know where everyone went.

That's the part that I'm tripping on. It doesn't make sense for you as town to fake-claim and then come back and admit to it so soon after. It only makes sense to me if you are trying to get as much information as you can for the scum, sacrifice yourself, and then have your buddies use it all against us the next day, still in lylo.

[ChronX]

Do you think we wouldn't have all mass claimed today anyway? Its pretty much a given at LyLo (my premise here is that we would have found some other way to come to our senses and lynch one of the masons yesterday).

The only way this way is different is that BM would have called for a cop claim again at the dawn of today, instead of calling for who "targetted" him on the night Raffles died.

So, lets say HeH's claim is real. He would have claimed cop, and that he was roleblocked, and his results. Gorgon may have claimed roleblocker at that point. We wouldn't have the interesting interplay of BM's claim, and Gorgon's claim to have targetted BM, or Gorgon's second vote on BM.

I think this way, I have given the town a LOT of info to work with.

[Hang 'em High]

I've been rereading and taking notes, so I'm going to make a few posts analyzing things. First, I'll examine ChronX and his fake claim. Why would ChronX fake-claim Tracker? The reason he states is:

I want a mason lynched today so we can establish the alignment of both.

and....

We know we have a dead doc. I know what I am. I am pretty sure there is another pro town investigative role out there. I suppose a game could have doc, tracker, other, and masons, since its speed. But that is among the leading reasons I doubt the mason claim.

His strategy was successful at convincing me. At the time I had the following conversation with CKD:

Chronx's case against us (me in particular) is crap, yet HeH sides with him. Lets see, ckd cant be a mason because he is a mason in another game (that was a gem)...you think my claim is false, but let Chronx's claim slide (no one wonders why he dropped it this close to deadline?)

My vote against you has little to do with ChronX's case and everything to do with his claim. We had a doc. You're both claiming in such a way that would give us two more power roles. Since I don't think we can have 5 power roles, one of you is lying. I'm not letting ChronX's claim slide -- I'm not sure which of you to believe. But we need to find out who is lying and I find his claim more believable than yours. Besides, you've told us numerous times that we should lynch you -- so I'm taking you up on the offer.

I said at the time I thought either CKD or ChronX was lying. We now know CKD wasn't lying and ChronX was. As far as I can tell, the only reason ChronX has given for falsely claiming was because he wanted to verify the mason claim. Up until his fake claim it seemed likely the town was going to pass on lynching a Mason that day. His fake claim tipped the scales for me and it also influenced distad's vote for CKD as well. We now know the Mason claim was true. While it's possible a townie would want to lynch a Mason in order to prove his claim, would he lie to do so? Further, would he lie and make a guess at who was targeted the previous night? You're asking me to believe a Vanilla Townie would want a claimed Mason lynched so badly he was willing to lie and guess about a night target while doing so? I just don't think a Townie would do that. Scum however, would certainly want us to lynch a Mason. ChronX later said:

I thought claiming was a chance to divert the mafia if the masons turned out to be masons. Clearly they thought d3sisted was the better townie to kill, and they would have had no reason to suppose there was still doc protection out there.

I agree -- his claim should have diverted the Mafia from the confirmed Mason. If ChronX was town there would be no reason for the Scum to disbelieve his claim. So that night the Scum would have had to choose between a confirmed Mason (d3sisted II) or a likely Tracker (ChronX). While a confirmed townie is bad for the Scum, a Mason doesn't have any troublesome night abilities. A Tracker, on the other hand, could cause some serious trouble for the Scum. Although it's a little WIFOMy, the fact he survived N2 is another indication to me that ChronX is not pro town.

I also didn't like this.

ME keeping MY word, BM? Where have I said I would reveal all before you claimed?

vote: BattleMage

We're at LYLO and he's voting before any sort of consensus is reached? Bad move.

By the way, I think Battle Mage may have been onto something when he said:

I find it pretty damn impossible that he (ChronX) would not only be a Godfather, but also know who the RB targetted and when. The only possible combo that fits is a Mafia GF-RB pair. Of course, if we mislynch today and see tomorrow, this may become something you should note, but for now, highly unlikely.

As you know by now, this is my #1 theory at the moment. Looking at all this I am finding it increasingly likely that ChronX is Scum. However, Battle Mage claims to have investigated ChronX and says the latter came back innocent. If ChronX is indeed Scum, it means either 1) Battle Mage is lying; 2) ChronX is the Godfather. I think either is possible. I'm going to continue some analysis and also look at potential scum groups. These will all be in future posts.

[Hang 'em High]

Comments in bold

Secondly, after reading the whole BM-ChronX deadlock, I assumed three things:
1) My theory of ChronX/BM scum pair is probably not plausible.

Why not? I think it's possible they are both Scum, but I haven't looked closely at the possibility yet. Please elaborate why you don't think it's plausible.

2) BM is indeed an idiot.
3) One of ChronX, BM, and HeH is scum. ChronX is likely to be that scum. Why? Look no further, but this is constructed while I read, so do excuse me if I repeat others' opinions.

Tracker, as I see it, is an easy to fake role, so long as you know who did what. ChronX claimed to see things only after they were claimed by others, save for, if I recall correctly, when he claimed to have watched Gorgon. As HeH had suggested, it is possible that Gorgon could be a mafia role blocker, in which case they could have easily collaborated to make this claim.

What I don't think:
1) BM is scum. I'm afraid I don't think highly enough of him, that he could have come up with a jack-of-all trades claim.
2) That, as HeH suggested, there are two mafias. There's only been one kill per night.

Agreed. I wasn't thinking clearly.

3) That HeH can

not

be insane/naive. If BM is a one-shot cop (among other things), and if ChronX might be a tracker, HeH may indeed have sanity issues.

In light of recent events, do you still think this is a concern? We now know ChronX is not the tracker and in my mind there's still doubt about BM's claim. I've been somewhat worried about my sanity as well, but given ChronX's unclaim I'm going to proceed as if I were sane.

Well. One of my long held theories is now mostly in ruins; I thought for SURE SonicP was going to counterclaim cop once I saw that HeH had claimed cop. I had deliberately breadcrumbed in the direction of SP, implying at one point that it was he that I had followed, because I wanted other claims to have that essence of doubt about him and what he might claim.

In essence, this is ChronX having hoped that SP would pick up on his lead and counterclaim HeH, making it more likely that HeH could be lynched.

If I picked 3 scum at this point:
SonicPulsar
ChronX
Gorgon

I'm leaning this way as well, although more with ChronX and Gorgon. I'm still not sure who I think could be the third scum -- in my mind it might be SP, you or BM.

These are, however, just my suspicions. But if I needed to vote, I would pick ChronX without hesitation.

[Hang 'em High]

I also didn't like this.

ME keeping MY word, BM? Where have I said I would reveal all before you claimed?

vote: BattleMage

We're at LYLO and he's voting before any sort of consensus is reached? Bad move.

Of course he wasn't the only one doing this...

And now I see you're not even logged in, even though you said you were going to claim.

Claim, already.

Vote: Battle Mage

That was the second vote on BM. And Gorgon admitted he know BM was offline. Very reckless if you're Townie. This, coupled with his "accidental" hammer of CKD, is evidence against Gorgon being on our side as well. In response to those votes, I posted the following that might be prophetic (key part in bold):

Why would you guys vote when BM is not even on? If he happens to be town the scum can win the game now (

unless you're both part of that group

). I agree he's stalling -- and putting words in my mouth. He could very well be scum. BUT WE CAN'T TAKE THAT CHANCE. Unvote now and vote again when he's online. But to leave two votes on him when he's not on the site and we're in a likely LYLO situation is reckless.

[Hang 'em High]

More comments in bold. Sorry for so many posts -- so much stuff to comment on and trying to do so in one post would be too difficult.

Secondly, after reading the whole BM-ChronX deadlock, I assumed three things:
1) My theory of ChronX/BM scum pair is probably not plausible.
2) BM is indeed an idiot.
3) One of ChronX, BM, and HeH is scum. ChronX is likely to be that scum. Why? Look no further, but this is constructed while I read, so do excuse me if I repeat others' opinions.

1. This is correct.
2. This is not only incorrect, but also completely unhelpful.
3. This is improbable. For a start, if i was scum, HeH would have to be scum

No -- you could also be the Godfather

(or a cop with sanity issues-in this case Distad would be scum

No, again. If I was a naive Cop it wouldn't prove anything about distad.

). Gorgon would also almost certainly be scum (because its the only way i would have known that i was RBed).

Probably true -- if you're Scum I think it's likely Gorgon is as well.

Oh and ofc, Chronx would have to be lying, because there is no way that Gorgon would target me at night IF I WAS HIS SCUMBUDDY.

He didn't have to target you, he just had to be willing to

say

he targeted you.

Again, i CANNOT be scum in this game.

Well, since thanks for clearing that up -- I'll happily take your word for it.

It just doesnt work, because BM-scum implicates so many other people who would have to be scum aswell, and if i was scum, the game would already be over. :p
Now remember that i have an innocent investigation on Chronx. It would be VERY unlucky for me to have hit the Mafia GF in my only investigation, so this is a pretty strong case not to lynch Chronx yet.

No it's not. You are just as likely to investigate the Godfather as anyone else. That's not a pretty strong case.

Later he confirmed himself in my eyes, by correctly claiming to track someone to me.

But this doesn't work if ChronX and Gorgon are Scum together.

Now we only have 1 claimed RoleBlocker, so assuming all protown players are telling the truth, we have at most, 1 protown RoleBlocker. Assuming Gorgon is the protown Roleblocker, Chronx-scum would have had no way of knowing that he targetted me, thus Chronx is 100% confirmed town if Gorgon is town.

Probably true. Of course there's a strong chance that Gorgon is

not

protown.

On the flipside, if Gorgon is a Mafia Roleblocker, Chronx can still be protown. So, fighting against those 0.01% odds of Chronx scum, i think we can trust him. Then ofc we have Gorgon, who's claim fits the bill pretty well. The really confusing thing here is that Chronx has to some extent countered Gorgon's action last night, by denying it being the case. Now aside from incredibly unlikely scenarios like flawed-Trackers, i think this could well mean that Chronx was Roleblocked last night. And not necessarily by Gorgon either. It is still possible for us to have a Mafia RoleBlocker and a protown RoleBlocker. We can confirm Gorgon as a RoleBlocker, but him being Mafia RB does kind of fit aswell. I mean, he could have thought that last night, if he blocked Chronx, he might have failed to get a result, and he could safely claim whatever he wanted. A potential slip-up perchance?

Again, i find it hard to believe, but it is a possibility nonetheless. Then we come to HeH, who's claim is highly suspect. He claimed an innocent investigation on me on the 2nd night, yet when i came forward and asked him the next day whether the nights actions had changed his view about me (i thought he was the RB) he said that he still considered me a suspect. When he had an innocent investigation on me?

I was trying to breadcrumb my finding without being too obvious. I also found your play that day (and the previous day) to be very scummy (hence my N2 investigation of you).

Inconsistency ftw! lol
He also claimed an innocent investigation on Distad, which i find very hard to believe. His motives have already been assessed as flawed, but i simply cannot see Distad as protown here. In fact, i think he would be a good lynch today, simply as the 'safe option'. I dont want to take a major gamble lynching a power role who could end upto be a mafia power role if we are incredibly lucky. Rather i find it better to lynch someone who has acted scummy throughout the game, and now is nearly guaranteed to be scum irrespective of the other members. The only thing in Distads favour is that his claim is one of the most reasonable in the game. He didnt claim another power role which is good, but then, it would be VERY foolish to under-estimate Distad's intelligence. He's a strong player, and i'm sure he could have realised that another power role claim could land him in alot of bother. I dont like the way he tried to half-softclaim vanilla early on either in an attempt to increase the validity of his claim. His pushing of ridiculous ideas today is perhaps a sign of panic.

I do not see the case against distad at all. Please elaborate or point me to posts where you have outlined your case against him.

Then we have SonicPulsar and Atticus. Both claimed Vanilla, both could be scum. Neither of them have given off strong scum vibes, and thus, i think we should leave both alone for today at least. Of course we will need to look at them at some point, but for now there are better options. Of the two, SonicPulsar looks way more protown to me.

Why?

So that leaves us with HeH and Distad. If Distad is scum, HeH is also scum, so we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone today if we lynch him.

Again, why do you think this. You're making a lot of statements without backing them up.

Equally if HeH is scum, we can say with some assurity that Distad is also scum. Hence i reccommend one of these 2 as today's lynch.

BM

[Hang 'em High]

Modified in light of new info and to add a third possible scenario. The third scenario seems a bit unbalanced in favor of the Mafia (considering it's a speed game). I still have work to do. I want to reread considering each of the below to see if they make sense. I also need to consider other possible scum groups as well. Right now I'm leaning toward the first scenario below.

To summarize, I think there are

two

three likely scenarios. Here’s scenario one:

Town:
=Confused= (Doctor)
d3sisted I (Vanilla)
Raffles (Vanilla)
Curiouskarmadog (Mason)
d3sisted II (Mason)
Hang ‘em High (Cop)
Battle Mage (Jack-of-all-Trades)
distad (Vanilla)
Either Atticus or Sonicpulsar (Vanilla)

Scum:
Gorgon (Roleblocker/Prostitute)
ChronX (Godfather)
Either Atticus or Sonicpulsar (Goon)

Here’s scenario two:

Town:
=Confused= (Doctor)
d3sisted I (Vanilla)
Raffles (Vanilla)
Curiouskarmadog (Mason)
d3sisted II (Mason)
Hang ‘em High (Cop)
ChronX (

Tracker

Vanilla)
distad (Vanilla)
Either Atticus or Sonicpulsar (Vanilla)

Scum:
Gorgon (Roleblocker/Prostitute)
Battle Mage (Godfather)
Either Atticus or Sonicpulsar (Goon)

Here’s scenario three:

Town:
=Confused= (Doctor)
d3sisted I (Vanilla)
Raffles (Vanilla)
Curiouskarmadog (Mason)
d3sisted II (Mason)
Hang ‘em High (Cop)
distad (Vanilla)
Atticus (Vanilla)
Sonicpulsar (Vanilla)

Scum:
Gorgon (Roleblocker/Prostitute)
Battle Mage (Godfather)
ChronX (Goon)

[theopor_COD]

Votecount - Erm No One.

Deadline - 48 hours time.

[Battle Mage]

christ, this game is frying my brain.
The only thing i can think clearly is that the term Prostitute, or Hooker, in Mafia is generally referencing a RoleBlocker of either affiliation, not necessarily scum. Oh yeah, and that HeH is hypocritical for not voting Gorgon when his analysis points solely in that direction.

[distad]

What I can't figure out, BM, is why you're pushing Gorgon so hard when ChronX totally played you on your recent claim, pushing our time for FOUR days while he postured with you on who would claim first, and then he finished it with a total BS claim. If your claim had been different, would he have run through his gambit? I mean, if you're not scum, how can you ride Gorgon so hard without even glimpsing at ChronX?

It just screams scumbuddies. Please tell me how I'm wrong, because I really want to vote ChronX.

[Battle Mage]

What I can't figure out, BM, is why you're pushing Gorgon so hard when ChronX totally played you on your recent claim, pushing our time for FOUR days while he postured with you on who would claim first, and then he finished it with a total BS claim. If your claim had been different, would he have run through his gambit? I mean, if you're not scum, how can you ride Gorgon so hard without even glimpsing at ChronX?

It just screams scumbuddies. Please tell me how I'm wrong, because I really want to vote ChronX.

err. wtf?
since when did i push Gorgon?
you don't mean the time i said he was the most protown player here, by any chance?
please go find your brain, then come back and post. lol

BM

[Gorgon]

Okay, ChronX says he has gained a lot of information for his town. The ONLY thing his 'ploy' accomplished was that me and HeH both said we targetted BM, and then, after much bickering over who was to say what before who, we had some more claims. ChronX's entire reasoning about what was revealed through is 'ploy' rests on the assumption that some people (most notably me and BM) are lying to make things fit his claim that he had tracked someone to BM's house. This is, however, completely flawed. Just because I say that, yes, I roleblocked BM on the second night, there is no proof that I'm lying, just because it fits ChronX's lie. That's just silly logic.

Claiming would have taken a MUCH shorter time without ChronX's lie and reticence to reveal the full facts in order to strengthen his paranoid belief that BM wanted to fish for info from others ... and we'd still have pretty much the same info that we have now (apart from ChronX's 'ploy', of course).

ChronX readily admits that he wanted to lynch ckd; yet he blames me for hammering a few hours before the deadline (which was accidental, although I guess I can't prove that it was).

ChronX, do you really believe that someone other than ckd would had been lynched if I hadn't voted him?

Also, he again uses my behaviour at the end of the first day against me; that I didn't want to vote d3sisted because he had enough votes already, and I didn't want to risk hammering early. I expressed relief for not voting him, because it would have been the hammer vote ... it would have been much the same mistake that I made yesterday with ckd. Yeah, I guess you'd have been much happier if I had hammered d3sisted, right? Not hammering is scummy one day, while hammering another day is scummy ...

ChronX lied in order to, among other things, make it easier to lynch ckd. He admits this himself. His claim made people think that it was less likely that the mason claim was genuine. It wasted (assuming BM is telling the truth) a doc protection on a vanilla townie; otherwise a mason would have lived.

ChronX retracting his claim is even beginning to make some sense. He's quite obviously trying to throw suspicion on both me and BM, although I'm again not sure of the motivation behind *that* ... probably just trying to muddy the waters further and divert the town away from others.

My theory is that ChronX is a godfather, and his partners are two out of the group Atticus, distad, and SP (Assuming three scum, which is extremely likely). One thing I agree with ChronX about is that I find distad to be the least suspicious of the players in this game; certainly the least suspicious of those three ... and also, if I assume ChronX is a godfather, distad can't be as well, so he's town unless HeH is lying (which I'm leaning towards as unlikely). BM still hasn't stated a full case against distad; he should do this soon, IMO, seeing how extremely scummy he seems to find distad.

So, I'm still thinking about voting ChronX ...

[distad]

What I can't figure out, BM, is why you're pushing Gorgon so hard when ChronX totally played you on your recent claim, pushing our time for FOUR days while he postured with you on who would claim first, and then he finished it with a total BS claim. If your claim had been different, would he have run through his gambit? I mean, if you're not scum, how can you ride Gorgon so hard without even glimpsing at ChronX?

It just screams scumbuddies. Please tell me how I'm wrong, because I really want to vote ChronX.

Okay. I acknowledge that you have not been riding Gorgon since, I guess, early 'today'. With him being mentioned so much recently, I interpreted your "hypocritical" comment incorrectly. That was my mistake.

That aside, my curiosity still stands.