Mini 1636: Mafialand Mayhem! - [Game Over]

[KatieB]

VOTE: evilpacman

Hey all!

[KatieB]

This is my third game, so no idea what my strengths are.

Lapsa is probably town.

As of right now, I'd probably wagon Luca, Wake, or Anen. Wake being the weakest vote of the three.

Is everyone here yet?

[KatieB]

'Probably Town'? That's quite strong. Based on what, exactly?

Why would you wagon me, Wake or Anen?

Ollie isn't here yet.

I mean, its a page 5 probtown so obviously you should just clear him until endgame.

bad vote, focusing on irrelevant stuff, looking for things to talk about that aren't relevant to the game.

I'll wait for ollie before I go for a serious wagon then.

Is everyone here yet?

how closely would you say you are reading the game?

I'm reading the game, but I haven't checklisted the playerlist against the posts. I figured someone else would already have done it, making that a waste of my time.

[KatieB]

I dunno, does your in english maybe that post typing? <3

[KatieB]

cool. how does that make me scum?

[KatieB]

why?

[KatieB]

ARE YOU GONNA VOTE ME?!?!?

[KatieB]

So let's see. Katie's scum for:
1. having opinions inside the first 100 posts.
2. not jumping when Mr. Anime whistles
3. OMGUS
4. not making sense (to mr. anime)

I know where my vote's going! This is so exciting!

p-edit clearly

[KatieB]

Has nothing to do with not having any need to argue with badposting scum.

[KatieB]

I can, I choose not to. Your motives are pretty clear, so there's no point discussing it with you.

[KatieB]

And you still haven't explained why I'm scum.

[KatieB]

Right but I'm not posting a 'case.' You are. And it's a case that nowhere ever actually suggests a scum motivation for anything I've done.

[KatieB]

For clarity, I'm scumreading Luca first because of his terrible vote on Lapsa, then his terrible OMGUS on me. I'm scumreading Wake for focusing on silly stuff like how much fluff should be allowed in a game, and Anen because he wasn't just posting fluff, he was

looking for things to talk about that were irrelevant to the game.

Like,

instead of

discussing the game.

[KatieB]

Oh I must have misused the word. What's it called when someone is suspicious of you based only on the fact that you're suspicious of them?

[KatieB]

Really? Which of your 'reasons' is indicative of scum and why?

[KatieB]

I mean, he voted Lapsa for 'fluffposting more than Anen' and 'poorly justifying his vote on Anen' which happened before Anen had even posted, and was pretty clearly a RVS vote. Even if Lapsa had done any of the things Luca was talking about, none of them would be alignment indicative.

He's scumreading me for calling Lapsa probtown, but dollars to doughnuts if I hadn't clarified that my feelings are as strong as p5 allows, he'd be scumreading me for having feelings too strong for day 1.

He's scumreading me for not hopping to answer him (which is not indicative of scum), scumreading me for a misunderstanding of my feelings on my suspects (even if his thoughts were accurate, this would not be indicative of scum), for 'not making any sense' (which is not indicative of scum), and for being dismissive of his reasons for scumreading me (which he hasn't yet presented.)

Pretty obviously scum looking for a day1 mislynch that involves a lot of words but not reasons. As soon as everyone has posted, I'd be glad to turbolynch him.

p-edit: but not having any reasons for scumreading me totally doesn't make his vote OMGUS. Totally.

[KatieB]

I am neither of those, nor are they indicative of scum. Please explain how any of his reasoning makes sense.

Dammit. What I get for playing under the influence.

[KatieB]

other way around, buddy.

[KatieB]

yes?

@ monkey, I'm being neither defensive nor emotional.

BUT, even if I were, those are also newbie tells for both alignments, which is the persona I was playing.

[KatieB]

Or that I'm playing as a secret alt?

[KatieB]

Like, I just altslipped in the thread and then swore about it. Are you suggesting that I knew what alignment I'd be before I signed up for the game and chose to play as an alt in order to have more things to lie about?

[KatieB]

That is like, the thickest thing I have read all day.

[KatieB]

Sure. I'm really good at night action analysis as both town and scum, and can usually nail the PRs within the first couple days barring weirdness. I also have a high winrate as scum and a high incidence of catching scum as town, but the point of secret alt was to not have to worry about paranoia. I've been suffering from a lack of confidence and motivation as town lately, and I wanted to take a fresh approach to the game.

[KatieB]

@ ckd- you're still on your randomvote for ollie. You might be pushing him for not posting, but I dont like the push and I dont see how it's relevant.

[KatieB]

other way around, buddy.

Hrm...

The plot thickens.

Hi wake

[KatieB]

Right but where have I been emotional or defensive?

[KatieB]

soooo...if you know where/why my vote is, why are you asking if everyone is here?

Just because you've voted someone doesn't mean they've posted, or are involved in the game yet. I'm not a fan of Day1 lurker pushes before the target has had a chance to engage in the game because it is possible if not probable that the notposting slot just flakes, wasting time and effort.

[KatieB]

was never the one focusing on "silly stuff" like how much fluff should be allowed in a game. If you recall, I was answering questions towards me about that. Maybe Luca is right about you misrepresenting things in this game. I gave fair warning about misrepresentation.

Right but you did spend a considerable amount of time talking about it, when IMO you should have brushed it off. It's a really weak suspicion, but it's there.

[KatieB]

have you ever seen scum support a vote based on "X is emotional and defensive"...(for your reference, I love to meta).

yes yes yes. i've done it.

[KatieB]

You have a lot of opinions about how people react to you specifically, but you don't seem interested in finding scum outside of Katie discussion.

What?

[KatieB]

That's factually inaccurate

[KatieB]

I was scumreading luca before he pushed on me. Wake and Anen have not expressed interest in my lynch. Like, are you even reading the same thread?

[KatieB]

@ monkey- Like, calling my aggression defensiveness is mindblowingly silly. I'm the ONLY ONE with a clear scumlist in thread.

@wake- I was not intentionally misrepresenting you. I feel that you spent too much time talking about things that are not relevant to the game, and it

could

be you-scum bogging down the thread. It is the mildest of mild scumreads, but you're my third place. Whether you asked the questions in the first place is irrelevant.

[KatieB]

and taking actions out of context.

Luca did the same thing, worse. I still think he's a better vote.

[KatieB]

Wake, I thought it might be indicative as the game progressed. Chill.

[KatieB]

Playing as an alt cannot be indicative of alignment. Unless you're accusing me

and

the mod of cheating.

[KatieB]

Like, its exactly the same as noting a player defending another player as possible chainsawing in case one of them flips. I noted your behavior for future reference, and it put you on my radar.

[KatieB]

If you stopped taking stances in favor of theory discussions. It's a great way for scum to hide in thread. It's also indicative if you see a pattern of similar posting.

[KatieB]

like, spending all your time on 'how much fluff is good fluff' rather than wagoning or pushing a case doesn't mean anything on page 4 or whatever, but if you continued to do so all game i'd totally lynch you for it

[KatieB]

back later, got stuffs to do.

[KatieB]

I'm mobile, so details later.

Liked Aeronaut's entrance. Think the monkey wagon is functionally a policy lynch. Will have words for wake.
Would bet my car on one or two of the prods getting replaced.

[KatieB]

Back. Catching up.

[KatieB]

incoming wall

[KatieB]

Spoiler: @wake

Like, its exactly the same as noting a player defending another player as possible chainsawing in case one of them flips.

I noted your behavior for future reference, and it put you on my radar.

Who and what is this post regarding?

As for the bolded, are you implying that I was chainsawing?

On the unbolded, you say you noted my behavior for future reference, and you say it put me on your radar. What exactly is it?

That post was addressed to you, sorry for not being clear. There is no implication of chainsawing, it is a hypothetical comparison. I do not understand your third question. Can you rephrase it?

If you stopped taking stances in favor of theory discussions. It's a great way for scum to hide in thread. It's also indicative if you see a pattern of similar posting.

Woah, holdup there.

What exactly do you know about my meta? What do you think it means when I do or don't take stances? Come on, you're on center stage with something to say, so you may as well say it all as you can. Since when do I favor theory discussion, and since when does Scum utilize it to hide within the thread?

I know very little about your scum meta, hence using general behavior tells. Scum have been hiding in theory discussion forever, it used to be called IIoA. I can think of one excellent mastin game off the top of my head as an example, if you like.

like, spending all your time on 'how much fluff is good fluff' rather than wagoning or pushing a case doesn't mean anything on page 4 or whatever, but if you continued to do so all game i'd totally lynch you for it

Wait a minute. Nowhere on Earth or in this thread did I ever spend my time on discussing 'how much fluff is good fluff.' Please read the thread. I was asked one or two questions about fluff and I responded in 1-2 posts. If you think that constitutes 'spending all my time,' you're either misrepping me again or you ought to truly re-evaluate what it is you're saying.

Fair. It looks to me like the fluff discussion was 7 out of your first 16 posts. You also spent a couple posts talking about why you chose not to confirm your role with the mod, then doing so incorrectly, and talking about how many scum there might be. I still think it was a large portion of your initial content.

Oh shit I need to duck and run

back later, got stuffs to do.

Wake. I joined this game because recently there has been a poorly founded meta of 'if you can piss sthar off, he's town.' I'm working on my temper in spite of a couple rough meatworld months. I do not like you personally, but I am going to continue to do my best to be civil as was my intent during signups.

I know that you understand that people could have many reasons for stepping away from a game for a bit. Maybe my work took up my attention. Maybe my ADD made it difficult to focus. Maybe my kids needed something. Maybe I'd exhausted my allotted playtime and needed to do chores. Maybe I needed to enthusiastically fellate Patrick Warburton in an elevator. Whatever it was, the possible explanations are numerous and it is fantastically unlikely that they were game related or, indeed, the business of anyone involved in the game.

As for sthar8/KatieB, do you only impersonate female alts, or do you take it further?

Different services have different prices.

J/k Your 78 leaves me wroth. It's the part where you say you'd wagon either me, Luca, or Anen. So, why? And does anyone else find it odd how he says Lapsa is probably Town in spite of his postings that really haven't been all that Townish to begin with? Guess I don't understand where KatieB is finding this confidence that Lapsa is probably Town, when it's so early into this game.

Lapsa's early game was quite town. He asked some pertinent questions, acted like he's excited to be here, didn't get roped into meaningless discussion, and didn't try to appease or buddy. That' about as townie as you can get on page 5.

Spoiler: @Anen

Katie, 78,

"As of right now, I'd probably wagon Luca, Wake, or Anen. Wake being the weakest vote of the three."

– Whut? And Lapsa is probably town... is it only me who thinks that she just mentioned four of the players who had a significant amount of posts at that time?

Was I supposed to develop reads on the people who

hadn't

posted?

Luca & Katie, around 89 and later – well, Luca has a point there and it seems that Katie evades giving a proper answer. Hmmm...

Luca was gonna scumread me no matter what I said. And I felt there was still potential for discussion there, plus I wanted to see if anyone agreed with me.

Whyttyfyck?
Luca did not OMGUS you.

Yes he did. I expressed suspicions of him. He voted me, with no reasoning as to why I'm scum.

Your read on Wake and on me contradicts each other to a certain extent. It's no matter that Wake was posting a fluff there too (with that aligator or whytwysyt), but calling me scum because of fluffing is just lol, you know ^_^

I underestimated you last time we played. Not happening again.

Katie, 110 – whom did you want to turbolynch? Luca? Well, advocating a turbolynch against anyone on Page 5 is not a good gameplay (unless someone preformed a blatant scum-slip, but that didn't happen).

pretty blatant.

Katie, 129 – Ckd is not the only one who parks his random vote on someone... why do you care about him?

He asked me about it...

However, I do think people tend to over generalize and jump to conclusions to quickly in day 1 in a rush to lynch, which leads to many day 1 mislynches.

In post 206, KatieB wrote:Liked Aeronaut's entrance. Think the monkey wagon is functionally a policy lynch.


This sentence needs explaining

Aeronaut's entry showed a clear and logical thought process that comes from an uninformed perspective. I think it makes him likely town.

I think the monkey wagon is based on his poor logic and people skills, which makes it only tangentially related to his alignment.

Spoiler: @ Luca

No, Lapsa's vote on Anen

WASN'T

an RVS vote - how many times do I have to keep saying this? He said in 37 that he voted Anen 'because of fluff' - linking it to a specific example, which occurred after said vote.

His vote. For Anen. Was the. Fifth real. Post in. The thread.

Why are they not potentially alignment-indicative? You use that to write off any argument. What in your opinion is alignment-indicative? How do you plan to find scum this game when you automatically write anything that doesn't suit your agenda off as 'not alignment indicative'?

1. There is no reason that town can't find good evidence for their vote after they've made it. 2. hypocrisy is not exclusive to scum 3. How do you tell the difference between town and scum, Luca?

Another blatant misrep. Is that alignment-indactive? Continually misrepping someone to suit your argument?

Please define misrep.

I scumread you (partly) because you couldn't justify your 'probtown' read

Chose not to, not couldn't. Why is scum more likely to do that than town?

, and later devalued it when questioned as a 'page 5 probtown read'

I was clarifying, but why would scum be more likely to do that than town?

- which I guess isn't much of a 'probtown' read at all, is it?

Why are you invested in how strong my reads are on page five?

Deliberately avoiding questions can be indicative of alignment

Be specific. Why was avoiding THAT question indicative of scum?

- you couldn't justify what you said - if you can't back it up, don't say it, otherwise I will scumread you for it

Look, I can't

make

you be rational but I'd appreciate it if you took responsibility for it rather than trying to make me bear the onus of your behavior. If you need everything rationalized and explained you are going to be sorely disappointed, and push a hell of a lot of terribly obvious mislynches. Try for some subtlety, buddy.

Not making sense can also be indicative of being scum - because scum have to fabricate reads. For instance - your 'probtown' on Lapsa makes no sense - the only way it might make sense is if you were scum partners, or if you were scum and knew Lapsa was therefore Town.

No, it makes perfect sense. It just didn't make sense to

you

. Also, faked reads from scum are vastly more likely to make sense than not, since they're trying to blend in with town while pushing their agenda. Faked reads and nonsense reads are wildly different; go play a game with Titus to see what I mean.

and taking actions out of context.

Luca did the same thing, worse. I still think he's a better vote.

That is just a lie - where have I ever taken anything out of context this game?

your interpretation of Lapsa's vote. your post 95, and suggesting in the post where you voted me that my townread on Lapsa should somehow be influenced by my read on anen and wake. your 219. All of those are robbing events of context.

hi sthar.

Hey baby. You look sooo townie in that dress.

KatieB is being super defensive right now, which seems scummy to me, and maybe I missed something, but I didn't see her ever addressing Luca's initial question which led to her wagon.

Vote: KatieB

Hey so you need to get an avatar like right now.

Please point out to me where I'm defensive, cause I'm really not.

[KatieB]

BP and Ollie are being replaced.

@ ckd-

[KatieB]

I'll be here tonight.

[KatieB]

I underestimated you (Aneninen) last time we played. Not happening again.

@Katie

what happened?

I didn't think he had the guile to buddy me. He did, and it almost won him the game. Which makes him saying things like, 'you should know my meta better' incredibly suspect.

Nevermind I am an above average poker player and my job is in technical support.

my dick is 13 inches long

Lapsa has people skills

Spoiler: @luca

This is just complete bollocks. Why would you assume I would scumread you whatever you said? If you gave a valid answer I would have given due credit, but it never came, and you use this to justify completely dissmising everything I say?

The things you were questioning me on were silly and meaningless. In my experience, questions like that have no right answer. Post 95 strongly reinforced the belief that you were not looking to determine my alignment, but rather engage me in an argument to paint me as scummy.

I was answering for Katie.

The (3) - Katie said I was taking things out of context by suggesting her townread of Lapsa 'should be influenced' by her read on Anen and Wake, when really this is taking what I said out of context, because what I really said was that it makes no sense for her to scumread players based entirely on talking about 'irrelevant things', while townreading someone who had done just that in virtually every post he had made up until that point.

Sure, that makes sense in the vacuum where their attitudes and methods were equal and otherwise meaningless. But suggesting that 'idgaf about talking to you' and 'HEY GUYS LETS TALK ABOUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE GAME' are somehow the same is so shallow and foolish that it made me think you must be scum. You're ignoring all the context behind wake, anen, and lapsa's post, as though my vote has to be based on simple counting rather than an analysis of the motives behind the posts.

Luca is maybe just trying to scumhunt from an incredibly shallow perspective rather than bullshitting scum. Luca, if you're game I'd be happy to play the question game with you. You ask me a question and I will answer it fully and honestly to the best of my ability. But in return, I get to ask you a question and you must do the same. Deal?

Katie, how do you feel about my avatar now?

You're a special little snowflake, but it's still annoying.

Still think the monkey lynch is bad.

[KatieB]

@Katie, thanks. I respond to positive feedback, so I improved the avatar further.
Maybe I'll start making more accounts so that I can make more avatars. Just kidding, I wouldn't want to compete with you.

Oh darling, there's no need to worry about that. You could never, ever compete with me.

You picked a name that's annoying to type. Now you don't want to get an avatar, which makes players easier to distinguish and threads easier to read. Neither of these are indicative of alignment; if anything they point to you being like 14 and having not developed a concept of empathy yet.

What

is

game related and interesting is how completely empty your ISO is. Who do you think is scum and why?

EDIT: (back to lurking, I went back to see if Katie was posting else where in this alt or her other…she/he is not..that being said, I would have found THAT scummy too)

I spent Saturday and Sunday with the kids instead of posting here and had a long workday on Monday.

[KatieB]

@Luca- questions?

[KatieB]

That's an awful handle. You're misinterpreting my pronouns: llll, my username, and __, the username I was forced to change because it was "too gimmicky" as a bunch of dominoes. Unacceptable.

Ohhhh you've got something to prove. Well, prove it to someone who cares, please.

@Katie It's been 17 pages. Are you not out of RVS yet?

17 pages or not, we've got a slot that hasn't posted yet in the game. I'm not going to be ready to lynch until after that's happened.

If I were ready right now, my vote would probably be on Luca, though I'm reprocessing that one right now. Wake and you are fighting for spot number 2, and I wouldn't hate a drake lynch.

[KatieB]

Lapsa

[KatieB]

Fuck Tate.

Fuck Constance. And Ben.

Pacman's probably town. I'm not sure that I'd compromise on the monkey wagon even to prevent my own lynch, but if there's any proficiency among the town players that's not a choice I'll have to make. Back later with a real vote, I wanna read some ISOs first.

[KatieB]

@Riddles: considering that I'm the player that Lapsa pretended to be, I'd like him changed to a neutral survivor so that he cannot win the game.

Also, this weekend I'm running the Magic Prereleases, and one of my boys is turning 16! Consequently I will be V/LA for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

[KatieB]

Did I miss something?

He broke the rules by pretending to cheat, and jokingly labeled me a cheater. I am going to try my hardest to win this game. If we manage to pull it off, he will likely claim that his rule-breaking was justified and helpful because it removed a distraction or some such nonsense. He should, therefore, not be allowed to win this game under any circumstances. Hopefully the punishment will help him learn to be less selfish in the future.

p-edit I'll have commentary on the game and monkey in particular after i get off work. I'm looking at wagon flow right now.

[KatieB]

Back from V/LA, super tired. Prod dodging, but you guys get attentions soon, i promise.

[KatieB]

Okay a short post.

In fact it's a really good kill because it's hard to trace.

Disagree. There's no useful info on it because it was a WIFOM kill, but that doesn't make it good. Whoever the scum are, they clearly have little concept of target priority.

what happened to [...] katie

Also, this weekend I'm running the Magic Prereleases, and one of my boys is turning 16! Consequently I will be V/LA for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

Kids' birthdays are more important than you, droog. Sorry to break it to you like this.

[KatieB]

We're not lynching until we've got the replacements for Drake and Wake. Don't be stupid.

Genda is my top scumread as of right now. idek what to think about monkey, drake looks awful on VCA. I'd also vote anen.

[KatieB]

Minor emergency at home, sorry. It never rains but it pours.

I'll catch up tonight, but I don't anticipate having anything significant to say until we get our other replacement.

[KatieB]

Sorry guys, we're up to three kid-crises this week, and I have to find an apartment that I can afford in the next three weeks or I'll be couchsurfing.

I'm having a hard time engaging with this game but I'm trying not to replace because I respect riddles.

Droog is town unless monkey flips scum, for fighting the wagon to no apparent towncred.

Monkey seems town to me. He's grasping, sure, but he seems to genuinely be trying to figure out the game. I disagree with just about every one of his methods and conclusions, but I know he does get lynched a lot as town. He looks like low hanging fruit here.

Given that, I'd like to set Genda on fire. He's been on both the big wagons today and his justifications for both are utter shit. He's just looking for a lynch other people will vote for.

VOTE: Gendberry

I'm still townreading pacman, im doubting my townread on CKD from yesterday.

Did I miss anything important?

[KatieB]

VOTE: Aeronaut

thoughts?

[KatieB]

The kill was an attempt to foster apathy. Anen was the third most active remaining player. This is obvious.

I was obviously wrong about monkeyman, but I frequently have trouble with lynches based on proficiency. When someone good plays poorly, I am likely to judge them scum and when someone less skilled plays poorly I am more likely to judge them town. It's a bias that I'm working on.

I'm reworking my reads today. I dont think I want to lynch droog. I'm willing to listen to theories.

Did not like wake's entry today. Did not like your entry today. Have another reason to vote you that is gonna remain a secret for a little while.

[KatieB]

VOTE: Aeronaut

thoughts?

Have not completely my reread of yesterday, but I am leaning voting you.


thoughts?

Whatever makes your pants shorter.

[KatieB]

Looking at Katie vs. Monkeyman, she was defending him on the grounds of being low-hanging fruit, which is the same exact wording that Pacman used. For her, monkey is functionally a policy lynch.



She also has varying stances on myself, and on Droog.

Liked Aeronaut's entrance.

Liked Aeronaut's entrance. Think the monkey wagon is functionally a policy lynch.

This sentence needs explaining

Aeronaut's entry showed a clear and logical thought process that comes from an uninformed perspective. I think it makes him likely town.

And then, as soon as Day 3 starts:

VOTE: Aeronaut

thoughts?

Did not like wake's entry today. Did not like your(Aero's) entry today.

This seems very weak to me.

Katie on Droog:

Droog is town unless monkey flips scum, for fighting the wagon to no apparent towncred.

I don't think I want to lynch droog. I'm willing to listen to theories.

"Droog is town unless Monkey flips scum". Well, he did. So what changed your mind all of a sudden? Why aren't you lynching droog today like you said you were going to yesterday?

---

Basically, I think it's possible that two things were decided in the Scum QT:
1. Monkey's lynch should be passed off as a fluke and his buddies opposing the lynch should say that it just seemed like to easy of a lynch (hence the "low hanging fruit")
2. That I should be the lynch today because I was catching on. It was probably between me and Ana, and since she was more active, you figured you could NK her and then get me lynched.

So, having said that,
VOTE: Katie

I still need to look at Pacman and Droog interactions, though. I'd be fine lynching Pac at this point too, but I feel better lynching Katie if possible today.

This one is better, and when I'm done playing card games with the kids I'll have some commentary on it.

[KatieB]

Sorry this one was supposed to come before the previous:

So, I personally think it makes sense that two out of three of {Droog, Katie, Pacman} were scum with monkey. It could be all of them, but I don't think four scum would be balanced unless town has some serious PRs.

Now, they each had some very strange interactions with Monkey. For example, Monkey was very wishy washy on whether Katie was scum or not. For example, here, Monkey claims he's only on the Katie wagon because it was a "pro-town" wagon, but that he didn't think she was scum.

I'm not convinced Katie is scum at this point, but the wagon is pro-town to me. Therefore my vote stays at this point.

That's like the definition of distancing.

Lapsa's annoying in general. Him being gone would be nice, but would that be best for Town?

Dunno about Sthar. He's being over-reactive? In what way? Not sure if that's normal for him.

I'd prefer not to focus on Katie and focus on Lapsa, but I've posted my case on Katie.

Here, he talks about how he'd now rather focus on Lapsa instead of Katie all of a sudden.

Now CKD is trying to bully Katie into lynching town.

Now, Katie is simply town being bullied.

His stance on Katie never makes sense. That pings for me.

More at 11

I am unable to reconcile any commentary on this post with my desire to be polite to you.

[KatieB]

Also, @Riddleton, reading through that whole clusterfuck with Lapsa and pretending to break the rules, I don't really feel comfortable with that Lapsa not being post-mortem modkilled or something... playing the same game with two different accounts is a serious offence for obvious reasons, and while he was probably joking, I feel like it created a big distraction to actual gameplay based on rules, which really shouldn't have been there. That's just my personal feeling anyway. If everyone else / the listmod is fine with it, then I guess it's whatever.

This might help restore some of my motivation for the game.

[KatieB]

Neither KatieB nor sthar appear to have any other games going on,

The logical leap here is astounding. I am alive in other games.

You clearly have the ability to post, so why not, you know, take that time to post some content relevant to the game at this point?

First, my meatworld issues have not resolved. I know not everyone will give a shit about that, so I'm going to spoiler a full explanation below. Second, I intended and still intend to play this game with a minimum of aggression and insults. Every time I come into the thread with something like 'Katie's scum because she's an alt' or 'Katie's scum because she doesn't have the same reads as she did before she was proved wrong' or 'maybe there's four scum' or 'both scum are obviously off the wagon' or 'katie's random vote was really tunnelly' I walk away to keep from saying something mean, then I have a hard time trying to muster the energy to explain why some of those things are bad without being insulting.

Spoiler: Here's what's going on with me

My roommates bailed on our lease with one month notice and 9 months left on the commitment. I am picking up extra shifts while still attempting to hunt for an apartment, so I have exactly one free day between now and when I have to be out of the house to move all my shit, and no place to move it to yet. Add in the fact that I am legally required to pay for healthcare before this Sunday (despite having not used any health services in the last twelve years

and

still being poor enough that any deductible will effectively bankrupt me), and the tax bill that's coming due, and I'm going to have to choose between paying my bills and couchsurfing for at least a month while I get back on my feet.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with my kid-situation, but two weeks ago the sixteen year old had a fight with his parents that required outside mediation. The 9 and 12 year olds' mom got stabbed in a random attack downtown. Then the 12 year old's scout troop disbanded, and we've been looking for another one. And despite all reason telling me not to, I added another kid to the bunch because he just got out of a group home and isn't back in school yet. I've been fabricating work for him to do to earn lunch everyday because he doesn't trust gifts, and he cried the first time I gave him money and told him to bring back change because I trust him

and nobody else will

.

None of that is really relevant to the game though, and I'm trying to keep it out of the thread.

I can't really refute any of the sane reasons people are scumreading me, and the insane ones are going to be unaffected by logic. I was wrong about monkey, and I'm not engaged with this game although I

am

really trying to get back in. It's essentially a BoP lynch, but there's not a whole lot else to go on right now given the apathy. It is pretty interesting that absolutely nobody is against my lynch, and if I were scum that would mean either two hard busses in a row or a failed deflection followed by an immediate hard bus, both of which are insane.

are a one line incomprehensible insult about short pants

having just admitted that you didn't understand it, what makes you think it's an insult?

(due to politeness, of all things! Katie, you're anything

but

polite).

I have failed in my objective of being polite

maybe

three times in this thread. Have you meta'd my main?

Katie, please try to be less of an asshole, post some fucking content when you post, and stop playing so cavalierly.

Let's be clear: I don't like you. I find it hard to address you without using profanity. As a result, I care very little about how you feel about me. Additionally, I find such a blatant attempt at manipulation to be somewhat embarrassing for you.

[KatieB]

I'm doing this because I'm on right now. I GUARANTEE that someone notes how scummy it is that I'm willing to post to defend myself, despite someone just having called me scummy for not doing so. But I can't tell in this game if it means they're scum or just not good at this.

Between 1.4 and 1.6, a wagon on Katie that Monkey was the second person to get on slowly picks up but Monkey abandons it (for no apparent reason, I checked) without attempting to reorient his reads:

because I was pushing someone else and he needed to not alienate me.

It's old mafia theory but I subscribe to the thought that the third and fourth spots on a wagon are likely to be scum.

Someone once told me that using old methods was outdated and dumb. I wonder who that was... (I agree, for the record)

I honestly can't even remember KatieB trying hard at all to get me lynched D1 so it is kinda scummy that her vote was on me for so long.

It was my random vote. I didn't move it until all the players had posted in the game, to remind myself that there were other people to look at.

[KatieB]

Looking at Katie vs. Monkeyman, she was defending him on the grounds of being low-hanging fruit, which is the same exact wording that Pacman used. For her, monkey is functionally a policy lynch.

Okay? I've said multiple times that I have trouble separating bad town players from bad scum players. Monkey couldn't adequately explain why he did anything at all this game. As far as I could tell he was constitutionally incapable of scumhunting.

She also has varying stances on myself, and on Droog.

Okay? Are you really surprised that after being catastrophically wrong I'd reevaluate my reads?

Did not like wake's entry today. Did not like your(Aero's) entry today.

This seems very weak to me.

define weak please.

"Droog is town unless Monkey flips scum". Well, he did. So what changed your mind all of a sudden? Why aren't you lynching droog today like you said you were going to yesterday?

I didn't say that at all. I said that the quote made droog town

unless monkey was scum

. I didn't say it meant that if he was scum, they were scum together. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Basically, I think it's possible that two things were decided in the Scum QT:
1. Monkey's lynch should be passed off as a fluke and his buddies opposing the lynch should say that it just seemed like to easy of a lynch (hence the "low hanging fruit")
2. That I should be the lynch today because I was catching on. It was probably between me and Ana, and since she was more active, you figured you could NK her and then get me lynched.

What am I supposed to say to this? You're creating a narrative out of nothing; literally any events could get plugged in here. Look, I have one too!
Basically, I think it's possible that two things were decided in the Scum QT:
1. Monkey was useless all yesterday and at least one of his buddies decided to bus him for cred. They then decided that the people not on the wagon would make easy targets today.
2. That I should be the lynch today because I was wrong about scum twice. The nightkill was intended to foster apathy, and a surface level lynch like mine is really easy to push through when everyone in the game is fatigued.

[KatieB]

Well, couldn't not being able to explain things and doing things for seemingly no reason also be classified as a common scum tell?

Sure, if you like lynching townies. Have you never played with TIP or bert or saki or marquis or metal sonic or titus? There are dozens of players who have inscrutable reasoning for doing weird things, just as there are dozens of players who cannot articulate their gut reads. The trick is catching them doing things that

help scum

, not things that don't help anybody.

I don't understand how I, who you had a strong townread on D2, clearly attacking and then hammering monkey who was scum, changes your read at all, especially considering how strong it was. It makes zero sense, and you know it.

I was catastrophically wrong on a townread and a scumread. I threw all my reads out at the beginning of today and started fresh. You were on and off the monkey wagon repeatedly for two days. The hammer was a deadline hammer on a consensus lynch, and you asked him to claim like three times. Seems to me you were looking for an excuse not to lynch him at the last moment. Then you had a daystart post that both celebrated the scumlynch and distanced yourself from the nightkill. So I voted you with no explanation. Then SUDDENLY I'm in your scumreads, and you're digging up nonsensical things to manufacture the read in 1065. Plus you're a big proponent of the same three scumreads that like half the players share, and you've been setting up future lynches.

Weak - Shallow, Flat, not holding much weight.

Okay. I don't understand your point.

Well, generally, if you're not town, you're scum, so scum was the other option. You went and implied that Droog could be scum if monkey flipped scum, and then the next day simply stated that Droog was still town. The definition of words, but not actions.

No, I stated that I don't

think

I want to lynch droog today. Also, null reads are a thing that can happen. You're scumreading me from implications that you drew from my words that don't follow from the words themselves, and you're continuously inaccurate about what those words were.

I dunno, I think mine makes for a better read.

And I think mine is better! Wow, we're both so convincing!

[KatieB]

Neither KatieB nor sthar appear to have any other games going on,

The logical leap here is astounding. I am alive in other games.

Provide a link, then. This is KatieB's only game. Sthar8 has not been posting in other games. I have no way of knowing your other alts, which is not my decision and therefore not something you have any right to blame me for.

blame you for what? The whole logical chain is bad. 1. Activity in one game but not another is not alignment indicative. 2. Knowing that I play with at least one alt does not imply that I have no other alts. 3. Not having other games does not imply that I have free time (and in fact I'm playing mostly in hydra games right now so that I'll have a partner to take over for me when I lose access.) 4. Knowing that I played as a

secret alt

does not imply that I'd be willing to tell you if I had another, even if it were relevant.

are a one line incomprehensible insult about short pants

having just admitted that you didn't understand it, what makes you think it's an insult?

I thought you meant it as an insult. I suppose I could be wrong - maybe it's one of those non sequiturs you write when you see people mistrusting you (

in a mafia game!

) that you say frustrate you so much.

what are you even talking about?

I have failed in my objective of being polite

maybe

three times in this thread. Have you meta'd my main?

If you fail multiple times at being polite, then maybe you should not describe yourself as polite. I have not read your past games - that's too much effort for a game where other players write stuff like "This might help restore some of my motivation for the game." I did read your posts in the St. Nick's thread while I was checking if you were playing in other games, and I liked you a lot more in that thread.

I'm sorry that I have a hard time engaging in a game where I get scumread for things like which account I'm playing under and abridging quotes without changing their meaning.

You read the thread where I called someone a 'disgusting failure,' 'willfully ignorant,' 'detestable,' 'failing to meet basic standards of human decency,' and told him to 'at least pretend to act like a human adult, at least where people can see' but you don't see the effort to be less abrasive in this thread, where the worst I've done is tell you that you were acting like a teenager and monkey that he needs to improve his communication skills?


p-edit actually your last post makes me feel a lot better about you. Why are you townreading wake again?

[KatieB]

@Katie Please mention what other games you are playing. I understand you don't like me, and you may feel you are unlikely to persuade me of your being town, but I don't think I'm asking for much here.

Linking to ongoing games could be discussing them and would then be against site rules. I'm not comfortable with that.

I will tell you I'm not very active on site right now because of my meatworld stuff, and that IF you wanted to look into my games I have a hydra with my brother called Lying Cat.

[KatieB]

I'm here for a little bit and the kids are all asleep. If you want to pow-wow I can be civil.

[KatieB]

VT. Hammer away.

Katie I hope your real life situation improves, regardless of alignment. That said, I don't feel any particular urge to unvote after the AtE.

What AtE?

There should be a new scumtell: AtRL

That would be cheating.

I actually think Katie is being sincere about her real life situation. That's a rough schedule, katie, I hope that improves for you . You're still scum, though

I'm town, and it's worrying that nobody has actually made a case other than 'was wrong about monkeyman.' I wish I had better reads to leave you guys with, but:
Pushing droog and pacman for defending monkey is questionable at best. His scumteam had FOREVER to decide that he was a liability and bus him; finding all the scum off the wagon means that they are colossally terrible. Theoretically it's possible, but imo it would be extremely unlikely. I think pacman is more likely to be off-the-wagon scum than droog.

CKD might be scum. Wake might be scum, just for the blatant buying of towncred on the 'HAY GUISE MONKEY VOTED ME SOME.' I was probably wrong on Aero. Stripes is probably town. I hope the PRs use their abilities wisely, because I don't think the town can win otherwise.

If someone voted me because I was "defensive" I would have lost my shit. No one believes that.

I have been trying very hard not to 'lose my shit' in this thread. I think the experiment was a failure. This was much more stressful when I worried about upsetting people who were saying dumb things, and it clearly didn't improve my reads. If you run into me in the future, don't be surprised if I'm less restrained. That said, I'm still technically part of the game so all I'll say is that if you think lying about my experience while playing as a secret alt in a game with players I have blacklisted is an alignment tell, and that it caused my inept partner to decide to bus me

before I'd altslipped

, then you need to sign up for as many games as you can because you clearly still need practice.

[KatieB]

This is a helpful post to keep for tomorrow. I don't think you're scum for being wrong about Monkeyman, I think you're scum for the way you went about trying to cover it up.

I... what? I've not covered anything up. I'm pretty sure like 75% of my posts today have included the phrase 'I was wrong about monkey'

For the record, I probably would have townread you more if you actually lost your shit instead of saying "I'm trying not to lose my shit", and letting us know you were frustrated rather than just letting us figure it out on our own. It just seems like you're trying to make us believe it because you keep mentioning it, which I don't feel like a townie would do.

Subverting meta has that risk. I'm playing in a way that I normally wouldn't. But I'm truly getting sick of 'angrysthar is townsthar' so I needed to try. Basically, anytime I wanted to insult someone in this game, I just typed 'I'm trying not to lose my temper' instead.

And, honeslty, VT claim would be a safescum move.

No. The correct scumplay would have been for me to claim a strong PR, in hopes of drawing a counterclaim.

I'll be really sad if that was wrong

Your read was based on magic fairy dust, circumstantial evidence and confirmation bias. Do you want a tissue?

[KatieB]

[KatieB]

Yes, I'm town. If you fakehammered me, you should be aware that it's a bad gambit that doesn't work.

[KatieB]

Now, this is the first game I've ever played you, so that is not it. In my eyes, you were trying to crumb that you had some sort of something on me, and that you had some kind of investigative role, or a role that knew something I didn't. Knowing my own role as town, there's nothing that you would have gotten if you'd investigated me. You claiming VT just sort of drove home that you were just saying that to take pressure off. I don't see another alternative, here.

Remind me after the game and I'll explain how this is colossally bad logic.

Now, why are you talking about fakehammers? :/

I'm not going to bother looking up all the votes on me, and you were trying really hard to get me to outright say 'Yes I am town.'

[KatieB]

Plus the last votecount was five pages and four days ago. It's really an ideal time for the fakehammer gambit, except that it's a bad gambit that doesnt tell you anything ever.