Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

[leviathan93]

/confirm I was reading up on all my other games and then fell asleep. =P

[leviathan93]

mafia talk time? they can do that? I thought you could only do that during a night thing. and go where mollie? hasn't the game just started? as for being on the sight, I'm always on the sight or at least I always have the sight on tab on my computer even if i'm sleeping. that way its easy access to follow my games and see who post what and I can be updated faster and respond quicker.

[leviathan93]

i have one completed game to my name as off yesterday. and started the 14th. i am currently in 3 games at the moment. the first one i started has not ended yet.

[leviathan93]

so yes i am a complete noob so sue me.

[leviathan93]

@adam, I appreciate that. =)

and I agree with adam, I did not feel like Mala was being sarcastic towards me in voting me for not confirming when I should of. she felt like it was something scum would do possibly from her experience in playing the game. though, I will say it was an innocent misunderstanding on her part, because I know my reason for acting the way I did and stated it for y'all to see.

[leviathan93]

because of this last post can I just come out and claim I'm town, because I'm a noob and didn't even know that you could talk pre-game and apparently the mafia whoever they were did? call me an idiot all you want, but I think it may be helpful.

[leviathan93]

how are we out of the RVS stage? I have no idea who I want to lynch yet. but I will state what I believe from what we have.

Mala seems an adamant experienced scumhunter.
Adam seems to be innocent
Prohawk intimidates me but I have nothing
Shrimp just seems to be plain wrong about stuff
mollie seems to just jump on someone elses decision.
leviathan I state I am plain white townie.

This is my analysis.

[leviathan93]

Oh yeah, shrimp did do that. Other then being stupid I don't really know what to say about that though.

[leviathan93]

I'm not saying being in The RVS stage is good. on the contrary its not the place to be, but I still don't believe I have received much yet other then just jumping on a wagon and I really hate being wrong. and I have never claimed before so I want to see how it goes. I'm claiming for this game that I am town. regardless if I am at L-1 or not. another reason I will say that I am claiming is because I am not a power role or anything. basically i'm just a simple blacksmith. If you don't want to believe me, fine, then don't. Prove it to yourselves what I am or what I am not. I feel claiming in this case will help town because that is what I want.

[leviathan93]

aren't blacksmiths townies? =P point is, i'm claiming i'm a townie. and well, fine. I will take that note. i do believe there are exceptions though. I'm not for a quick lynch so I wouldn't vote for one. I wish the other people would get in on this game and put in their input.

[leviathan93]

sorry. and I was going to say we are called "vanilla townies" vanilla is white. but glad to see it was just a joke.

[leviathan93]

I apologize and want to clarify my use of the term "blacksmith" It was an expression I was using to show a just a townsperson. nothing special about them. i could have said baker, or candlestick maker.

[leviathan93]

nope. never heard of mafia until the 13th and a friend helped me a create an account on the fourteenth.

[leviathan93]

I want to add my new list of updated thoughts on the players.

Adam: I really feel like he is helping. He seems innocent enough in his words and I have thought so from the beginning. What I especially give him points for is his huge analysis of us all. I find it held some of my own thoughts. He reads a town for me. I also believe that we should pay attention to Guille and Code, because of their lack of care in reading, or possible business but none of us will know. the game has taken off considerably in my opinion and there is lots of evidence and information that we have here that town needs to sipher through and pick out the useful bits.

Mala: I claim her to be town as well. Her first accusation against me was definitely a town move in my opinion as she 1. wanted to get out of RVS which town wants asap. 2. she honestly thought she saw a scum tell from her experience in other games that i'm guessing. She seems like an experienced town in my opinion and seems like a smart and active scum hunter asking questions that will actually get answers rather then asking questions that she hopes will give answers or helpful clues.

Shrimp: my first thought is to just pronounce him scum because of the sheer incredulousness I feel whenever he posts. Everything he says I honestly disagree with and everything he claims I think he is basically wrong. Especially about the things he claims about me. I know the truth of my actions. he is not wrong about everything necessarily but his posts were hard to read so I kept having to go back to them and maybe I still don't even understand what he means. Regardless of just how plain WRONG I think he is that doesn't necessarily fly as scum to me. So it could mean his character is a scum act of sorts. or he is an not understandable frustrated townsfolk. I honestly see it at either or. kind of leaning more town, but all I can get from my gut is scum yet logically I see possible misunderstood townie.

Hawk: I will again state that I thought hawk to be town in the beginning. I have seen arguments thrown around over the last 4 pages and I say that they have some weight to them, but still hold my pro-town like position over him. I feel he has major experience in the game and recall some of his posts to be very pro town and helpful scumhunting tries with intelligence behind them. Scum i feel would not like to give us much intelligence, unless they were so intelligent as to pretend to be protown and offering intelligent false things which I think we should always be aware of but i'm not sure that he is necessarily doing that. Again, more town then scum feel but give him a possibility of slipping.

Mollie: I want to say that I thought it was an interesting move when she jumped on my wagon in the beginning. I would have understood it because it seems like someone I would have done, because I believe Mala seemed to have a point by picking me (even though I had no idea what I was doing) . what I did find odd was the asking like Adam mentions. i probably would have asked, but i understand if she may have felt cautious about jumping on my wagon so early in the game on someone elses reason. I would have been cautious of people judging me for that as well. I do like that she is the only one to call out mantis and throw an accusation his way because I don't believe any player should have a straight shot at being able to slip through without being questioned just because one person thought they were town or something. people have been known to be wrong. it happens. all the experienced players probably know that from their experience. it sucks, but it happens. so I'm cautious even though I have never been right or wrong yet. Whether she has much reason for accusing mantis or not I feel it was a good thing to happen. so leaning more town for you.

Mantis: again, I found myself agreeing with Adam's reading. His posts are very light compared to the others in this thread. I feel by looking more at his posts and his posts in the future and seeing similarities or differences will show us if he is scum or pro-town. I really like to see more off his thoughts, and also would like to say that I do believe Adam's questioning regardless of fillerness or anything can always give us more information that can help town, so I disagree with him there. more leaning to scum then town.

Code: NEED MORE POSTS!! I SEE YOU AS SCUM BECAUSE SO MUCH HAS HAPPENED AND WE NEED YOUR HELPFUL INSIGHT!

guille: Again, another scum read because of so little information and what little he has said tries to discredit Adam's thinking and questioning which I am all for. NEED MORE! but agree guiltiness so far!

VOTE: Guille

[leviathan93]

Mantis seems to be an active scumhunter in the questioning of Mollie. People! what is our thoughts on the matter? @Mollie so who are YOUR scum reads at this very moment? does mantis seem scummy to you?

[leviathan93]

I like how i'm the one claiming here and i'm high on shrimp's scum list. =P

@shrimp there are a lot of reasons I think you are wrong, but i highly doubt you will listen to me with the way you seem to be playing since you are so sure of yourself it seems. no, thats not an excuse to get out of it. its the truth. plus I see it as filler and completely pointless to the game. a tactic i'd naturally see as scummy I might add. just throwing in pointless dialogue that will make the game harder to read. a scum tell if you must. I also would like to point out that you actually put yourself on your scale of whos scum and who is innocent. Are you claiming your innocence here? I read THAT as scummy as well even though I feel you to be innocent, but you seem to be acting scummier and scummier in my eyes. i don't understand. I also agree with Mala. How can you get a positive read on guille from the "little" he has posted compared to our scummy read of him and then claim that we are in the wrong. as mala said, you would get a null.

[leviathan93]

UNVOTE: I am going to update my scumlist/townie list. This is just my gut reads. something simple.

Mala: innocent
adam: innocent
shrimp: innocent
me: innocent
hawk:innocentish
guille:not innocent
codex:nothing, but since everyone else seems innocent. scum
mollie:innocent
mantis:innocentish

VOTE: codex

[leviathan93]

then fine. The two least town of the town reads I have would be prohawk and mantis. as my possible seeing as scum.

[leviathan93]

sorry guys, been a little busier then usual. will read now.

[leviathan93]

UNVOTE:

[leviathan93]

Borkjerfkin has understandable and logical reasoning. I like logic and reasoning. Also because its trying to be clear and understandable and make a point that helps town, it gives me a town read.

I'll read more now and post my thoughts on it.

[leviathan93]

Shrimp, Guilles scumminess is in plain sight, but beyond the field of view. Go re-read guille's posts and you should pick some up. If not, give us reasons why you think he is town and we can go from there.

Mollie, only if you are a girl cause guys' radiant beauty generally have no effect on me. Also, you forgot one of the biggest aspects of working with someone. It would also give you the knowledge of what exactly to do to fool the other. You have already refuted your point in a previous post, so this angle isn't a good one to work. Meta cases are weak.

I somewhat disagree with you hawk boy. lol, just got into a post game discussion with majiffy over this cos he pretty much agrees with you. I use meta when it is a player that I know pretty well. like I know their work schedules, sleep schedules, etc. meta is not the only scumhunting tool I have in my box, I use different things for different games. in some games meta is the

only

tool I have cos some players will be so objectively scummy game after game and lynching or fosing doesn't seem to have an effect on them so they are not going to improve their game no matter what you do so you have to learn their town tells and most definitely their special tells. <----- do you guys call these relative tells here?

meta or pattern-matching should not be used when you are new or if you suck at it. it is only an asset if you can provide consistent reasoning behind what they are thinking or how they are posting in the game but then when it comes to making cases based on meta alone you are right it is pretty weak and you have to develope a reputation for it in order to get people to listen to you. but sometimes I have known who scum were on d2 just by the nk choice alone and that is a meta thing.

having said all of that my town read on mantis

is

meta based cos of her hardcore wk of adam which tbh I don't fully understand but then she often sees things that I don't. her posts look genuine to me but I get why this looks suspicious to other people who don't know us or our history or why we would think the way that we do.

the thing is that I have been a part of more town wins as town by finding town rather than just trying to find scum. you make me nervous cos I am not entirely sure what as scum you are capable of. if I had a barometer of what your scum game looked like you would be easier to read and no I am not going to look at your previous games cos I am not in them. I reaction test in a different way and I am not about to give up what I am looking for. I have shifted you to town but probably for reasons you might not understand. I am more of a lateral thinker.

I definitely see this as being pro town or a townish thing to say. Mollie feels town to me.

[leviathan93]

@prohawk so just because I quote a post that I agree with and believe says what I feel it means that I'm either 1. lying. or 2. is invalid, because its worthless? trying to make me look like scum hawkboy?

[leviathan93]

@prohawk so just because I quote a post that I agree with and believe says what I feel it means that I'm either 1. lying. or 2. is invalid, because its worthless? trying to make me look like scum hawkboy?

[leviathan93]

I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.

the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose

This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?

My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.

Adam's logic and reasoning in this case makes a lot of sense I feel. That much experience MUST mean that mistakes appear less in their game play. yes it is always a possibility to make a mistake now and again, but to have the perfume of being scummy? no. you know your alignment in a game. why would you purposely act scummy if you are town. a strategy? i don't see a logical strategy helping town win if people think one of the town is scummy and wants to lynch them.

manipulative eh? where is the cog-dis btw?

Ok, I missed that you asked that question while quoting my post.

The cog-dis is how you use the faulty notion of "scum perfume" as an excuse for looking scummy. I would expect this defense from someone with less than 9 games, not somebody with over 90. The dissonance comes with other of your defense when you demonstrate deep knowledge of scum play. You can't possibly expect me to believe that somehow because you played scum your last 3 games that you can't help looking scummy; if you look scummy as scum then you are either a newb or scum trying to pull the same sort of defense that you are trying to pull now. Based on your skill set, its just not possible that "scum perfume" even exists in your game and your using it as a defense shows a scum mindset that is trying to overcompensate for its guilt with a faulty excuse.

[leviathan93]

Adam's logic and reasoning in this case makes a lot of sense I feel. That much experience MUST mean that mistakes appear less in their game play. yes it is always a possibility to make a mistake now and again, but to have the perfume of being scummy? no. you know your alignment in a game. why would you purposely act scummy if you are town. a strategy? i don't see a logical strategy helping town win if people think one of the town is scummy and wants to lynch them.

sorry this was supposed to be outside the quote. my bad.

[leviathan93]

I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.

the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose

This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?

My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.

manipulative eh? where is the cog-dis btw?

Ok, I missed that you asked that question while quoting my post.

The cog-dis is how you use the faulty notion of "scum perfume" as an excuse for looking scummy. I would expect this defense from someone with less than 9 games, not somebody with over 90. The dissonance comes with other of your defense when you demonstrate deep knowledge of scum play. You can't possibly expect me to believe that somehow because you played scum your last 3 games that you can't help looking scummy; if you look scummy as scum then you are either a newb or scum trying to pull the same sort of defense that you are trying to pull now. Based on your skill set, its just not possible that "scum perfume" even exists in your game and your using it as a defense shows a scum mindset that is trying to overcompensate for its guilt with a faulty excuse.

adam I don't think you quite get how cog-dis works. saying that I may be wearing eau de scum cologne cos of lingering scum games is not cog-dis it is an admission stating that I had a streak of scum games and sometimes when a player has this when they get into their next game they will sometimes post from what appears to be from a scum POV even though they are not. I have trolleytracked on players for this too and there really is not much to be done about it except learn from it which I genuinely hope that you will do.

hawk boy is demonstrating cog-dis by keeping me in his scum pile when he has clearly stated that scum try to hide and blend in. he put his vote on me early and at a time when it was really obvious that I was not trying "hide" and "blend in". then he says that the reason I was not "hiding" and "blending in" was cos he and others wouldn't let me. this is untrue. I have been front and center from the get go. cog-dis is also saying that when you apologised you were being sarcastic when it was sandwhiched between serious posts. not to mention it was also downright douchey if he was being sarcastic.

I am trying to sincerely reach out to you cos I am hoping you will do a hard reset once I have flipped and realise that I have a played a shitload of games and might actually know what I am talking about. you should have trusted mantis's read on me she just watched me play 4 scum games (2 at TO, 1 at ratskep and the audio game here) she probably has a better grasp of my scum game then anything else that you guys can come up with.

do you even remember why I drew so much suspicion? cos I sheeped malacat when other players had the assumption that it was still rvs. she clearly stated that it was not an rvs vote but someone I can't remember who said she was being sarcastic when I knew she wasn't. the sites that I play on we do not even have an rvs stage most of us will just jump right in and get our hands dirty.

anyways I do not know what to say to you anymore. sorry I don't play exactly the way you want me to play I am what I am I will try to avoid you in future games. cheers.

I feel I understand your reasoning better here mollie. It makes sense to me. still don't see how you a player of your experience can play so scummy when they are not scum without knowing they are scummy or something along those lines. I feel adam's reads are town as he put a lot of time trying to analyze players with his questions. regardless if you are town or not I feel he would question everyone in this game if he seems they are out of place or something doesn't make sense and with your case I agree that the "perfume" does not make sense even if you are innocent.

[leviathan93]

Levi!!! You are killing me. If you can, without going back to look at the post you quoted, paraphrase the whole thing, then I might believe you actually agree with it - the whole thing.

You quoted a post, and said "I agree". This is the most lazy, lackluster post full of nothing. You are being lazy and not contributing. If I didn't have you on my list of prob-town, you would be due for a D1 lynch. Keep it up and you will be the D2 lynch.

@hawk you are completely wrong about me quoting something and saying "I agree" what I said was that "believed this analysis makes her seem town to me" yes I technically agree with her disagreement about meta with you. but that wasn't what I was saying. nor was I saying that her disagreement with you made you scum. When I said later I agreed to it when you made your post about me quoting someone and wanting my "real" input I said it was because I agreed with it too. then you said that my agreement is lazy and not contributing. how is it not contributing? i'm giving you my thoughts even if they come from someone else. shouldn't that tell you my side of things and what I believe and how I act? and whether I am scum or town or not? and personally I don't think i'm going to make it to day 2. maybe i'm not lynched day 1, but I already claimed town and mafia is probably going to kill me during the night so you have nothing to worry about. and is that a threat by the way? you say you believe me to be town, but then you would go ahead and lynch me anyway? I claimed already. whether you believe me or not I see it scummy that you would do so much to want to lynch someone who is town.

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-4): Malakittens
Pirate Mollie (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Guile (L-2): ProHawk, Pirate Mollie, Mantisdreamz
Mantisdreamz(L-4): borkjerfkin
borkjerfkin (L-4): Adam-12

Not Voting: leviathan93

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[leviathan93]

@adam I know it has gotten light. I have been busy recently. I have read most of the posts in this game currently and rereading the beginning now. My thoughts on the game so far is that there is was a battle about shrimp's alignment. that i feel has pretty much ended as of now. My current view was that even though he may have had bad reasonings i see him as town possibly frustrated town. As for Hawk. I thought him very actively good at scum hunting in the beginning as well as really wanting someone to be lynched (could be wanting it to be scum, but that could be debatable now). he didn't necessarily state he wanted a lynch but i feel he really wants someone to take a fall. As for you, you continue to be updated and posting your thoughts and asking questions for clarification as well. i see it as maybe not getting the best results, but at least you are trying. Mala seems to be consistently showing innocence and attempting scum hunting. Mollie played a bit scummy in the beginning and wasn't good at answering questions directed at her in an innocent manner and yet i feel her reasoning in itself is solid. Guille seems innocent and helpful to be now, but I get this weird feeling that people don't really believe that and i'm curious of that matter. All i see is innocence and helpful pro town actions. could be a play, but i don't know. borkfkergin or whatever seems innocent as well and more helpful then code x was. he seems innocent. Mantis i don't have much of a read on.

[leviathan93]

1. disagreeing has nothing to do with the read anyone could have possibly disagreed but i give her points for an honest challenge of you from her side
2. a pointless addition to this thing. it is just her bringing her outside information for her argument.
3. I would say this helps her point to you and is a good thing to bring up. meta can be used on experienced players, not newbs like me who don't have a meta yet and are "prone to mistakes" as you experienced players often put it. I think thats town points.
4. This again is information that i feel gives her town points for me. she is trying to say the consistency of scumminess causes her to look at meta in players. a scumhunting tactic i'd say.
5. again, I personally agree with this. I am a noob and i don't use other players meta because i highly don't i would use it correctly and make too many mistakes. though completely logical and almost obvious. id say another town thing.
6. and agreement was found. you both agree on something that i feel makes perfect sense. town. for the most part. could be playing along, but i still disagree. she is being consistent here.
7. a valid point she states. I'm playing with a character named thor in another game and he is IC and i'd say VERY experienced. I listen to him, but and I feel no one listens to me in most games because i'm a noob. town points
8. It can be. scum may want to go for the most skillful player who could possibly find out who they are. there are other factors too of course. town points.
9. that is her own personal opinion or feeling. how can you disagree with this? are you saying shes lying? shes trying to be helpful and not necessarily accuse him since she points out that meta alone is not really all that valid. town points
10. and should she? if she doesn't understand maybe she should ask. but she still states she doesn't. is that scummy or town. i see null but i'm still leaning more town.
11. this could be an observation and is she right? maybe. again. its a statement i feel. nothing naturally scummy about it. is it town. at least she is putting information out there. which I always see as a town thing.
12. that is her read so far. if only based on meta or what. neither scum nor town.
13. she stated that meta wasn't enough so she understands her own fall. could be a smart play or an honesty play. both. but i lean town.
14. that is a strategy and if it has helped her win then good for her. apparently it works. just a thought that could possibly help town in this game. town points.
15. more opinion. I see it as honest opinion. she wants to get it out there what she feels so other innocent people can take a look into it and possibly back her up. town points.
16. if she knows your meta as scum it may help her decide what you are in this game. that is helpful information for all the time. town points.
17. could be laziness. or scumminess. more scumminess then town though. no town points
18. who cares if someone reaction tests in a different way. if they are trying to help town its trying to help town. points for trying at least.
19. don't really know what "reasons he might not understand" means. don't know what to think of this one.
20. she feels what she feels. anyone want to argue with that? no points added.

and regardless if you believe me or not, I wanted to see how it would help this game progress. i don't see how scum would be smart to keep me alive. especially if everyone believes i'm town. then when I get to the end it would show who is scum because I'm confirmed town. at least in my own eyes and the scums eyes. im probably going to be a nightkill either day1 or day 2. and sorry for forcing you. =P

[leviathan93]

In your experience, what would an unintentional town-slip be? i'm not saying i will make one though. =P no promises.

[leviathan93]

sorry mantis.

[leviathan93]

someone told me that one shouldn't try so hard to not appear scummy because that would mean that it looks scummy if a person isn't really being seen as suspicious and is appearing to "try to hard" i believe you and agree that when playing town you should be honest, because town does not need to lie and almost has nothing to worry about except the lynching or possible night kill. This being said, town can post as many times as they want in the attempts to give as much information as they can to help town win. I feel logically that scum want the least amount of information to appear naturally and be discussed. this is why the more random things that possible can happen, minus personal attacks in arguments and bullshit fluff, should happen to give all town players better possible reads. and you are right. it doesn't feel good to be lynched wrongfully. as a new player and as a person i'm peeved at the notion of injustice happening so I want to be really careful and truthful in my play as a townsperson so i don't vote wrongly.

[leviathan93]

That, but I think they were asking if scum were allowed to talk during the pre game confirmation stage.

Oh. Yes, they are/were.

based on this post. I also was thinking that the those of us who are scum knew that one could use the quicktopic chat thing before the game. this I would rule is their experience told them that. Shrimp guy and I are the ones I know that apparently did not know this was possible as shrimp guy did say that he didn't know. he could have been lying but all in all hawks post about him making a unintentional town tell seems to be understandable. therefore. I feel me, shrimp, adam, hawk. as town. mala could also be possible town and is leaning that way, but i'm worried about a wrong gut feeling with her. that leaves, mantis, possble scum, and guille as well with a possible borkkhfergnin or whatever his name is. but i think borkergin is town.

[leviathan93]

my point is. the more experienced players are scum. i'm sorry I don't know how personally experienced all of you are or who actually knows what. this could just be a lame unimportant assumption. but i thought it would be good to throw out there.

[leviathan93]

Shrimp, The explanation is easy. Mollie has a town read on me because I am town.

Adam, its time to get back on the Shrimp wagon. He is heading down the scum-slide.

I don't understand how you all are so confident about lynching Leviathan93 for logging in a bit later.

Leviathan93 is one of the newest players.

Don't you even see that that's not a clear scum tell? We have all day, don't try to quick lynch, it would be a waste of all the precious time town could use for their benefit.

aren't blacksmiths townies?

Shouldn't you know

if you're town? why did you ask?
This CAN be seen as a scum tell.

Leviathan is one of the newest players, yet should know stuff if he is town... I don't buy that half-baked attack. Shrimp, if we are on the topic of scum-slips...

Spoiler: Shrimps damming scum-slip

town

could use for

their

benefit.

I knew you secretly wanted to exclude yourself from our elite group.

In fact, my read on Leviathan93 has increased mainly because of these posts.

And a big

FOS on Leviathan93

You could have fooled me...

Well, this is not one of those websites, the only thing town has in it's advantage is time, so lets use it wisely, and not try to quicklynch.

lol, wtf, who is trying to quick lynch here pretty sure the only person talking about that is you. placing votes is a great way to feel people out is this your first mafia game or what.

^QFT

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shrimp85

Spoiler: Scum-Slip Confirmation

I play on sites where d1 is typically 24 hours

Well, this is not one of those websites, the only thing

town

has in it's advantage is time, so

lets

use it wisely, and not try to quicklynch.

So now you want to join our elite town group? Yeah, definately a scum slip.

And this is only the tip of the iceberg.

@hawk i'm sorry, but either i'm really stupid or i simply don't see why that post was about anything other then a town pr's. are you saying because it was technically not about that and about the blacksmith business?

also mantis. I think the quote above after going back to look at shrimp is one that may be interesting since I see hawk as town now. I originally thought shrimp was kind of all of the place and as adam said something about not being serious with his vote, which adam said later could be a scumtell. I remember believing shrimp to be innocent and then after some experience with finishing a game recently I learned how easily i could be tricked into not believing someone was guilty. i returned to this post and thought that it was an interesting argument made by hawk. and that I should look into it more.

[leviathan93]

lol just saw this in post edit:

That, but I think they were asking if scum were allowed to talk during the pre game confirmation stage.

Oh. Yes, they are/were.

based on this post. I also was thinking that the

those of us who are scum

knew that one could use the quicktopic chat thing before the game. this I would rule is their experience told them that. Shrimp guy and I are the ones I know that apparently did not know this was possible as shrimp guy did say that he didn't know. he could have been lying but all in all hawks post about him making a unintentional town tell seems to be understandable. therefore. I feel me, shrimp, adam, hawk. as town. mala could also be possible town and is leaning that way, but i'm worried about a wrong gut feeling with her. that leaves, mantis, possble scum, and guille as well with a possible borkkhfergnin or whatever his name is. but i think borkergin is town.

LOL.






VOTE: leviathan

lol, to you as well. some of you still don't believe i'm town, so why should I continue trying to keep myself out of the US factor when referring to us? =P "those of us who are scum" should I instead have said "those of you who are scum"?

[leviathan93]

and exactly as I said mala. I feel there is a possibility here. do you not like that? i did not know that you could talk during the beginning as scum before the game started in the confirmation stage. majiffy claimed and said that the scum could talk during that time and DID talk during that time. because I was unaware that this was possible i'm wondering who out of us truly knew it was possible. maybe that was all of you except me and so it was pointless to say, but even if it was 3 of us innocents that would still make it only 4 people we would have to look at. i know lying is still a factor in this but still. i thought it would help.

[leviathan93]

and @prohawk, I quoted 143, because it had to do with shrimp and mantis wanted my thoughts on shrimp. I reread the thread and found 143 and I thought it was interesting thing for me once I started thinking about it more. I easily passed over the thought that shrimp wasn't scum anymore after battling with it and i did that in a previous game and I was completely wrong. now i'm wondering if i should go back and I think your post is helpful.

[leviathan93]

ok. then glad you put your thoughts on the matter. I was just making a comment on a possible lead that town could look into. you say there is nothing to it. okay then. I wouldn't know, because i didn't get that "you are scum" message. "here is how you can talk to each other".

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-4): Malakittens
Pirate Mollie (L-2): Shrimp85, Guile, ProHawk
Mantisdreamz(L-4): borkjerfkin
borkjerfkin (L-4): Adam-12
Leviathan (L-4): Pirate Mollie

Not Voting: leviathan93, Mantisdreamz

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[leviathan93]

lol. ok. mollie. =P is calling myself scum a scumslip?

[leviathan93]

is lot of posts really scumworthy?

[leviathan93]

@Guille I don't think the line of thinking was irrelevant. I know the roles are given out randomly but I figured because I was unaware that scum could talk to each other before the game during the confirmation stage and majiffy said that the people who are scum DID in fact use that time to talk it would mean that someone who knew that they could do that was guilty of being scum. apparently that would leave out me. so there are 6 of you left who could have possibly known that, or not known that. since i'm newer to this sight I guessed that someone with experience on this site had to have known that they could talk during that time. I feel i understand now that it was a pointless thing to state but the logic makes sense to me even if it isn't helpful at all.

[leviathan93]

I really just want to say that I highly doubt either mollie or mantis would be cheating. this being said, if there was anything to shrimp's claim that they seemed to know each other's alignment it would mean that they were scum. This is possible and makes sense but I highly doubt that is actually a correct interpretation of either mollie's or mantis' game. that's my personal opinion. i could be wrong though.

[leviathan93]

@borky so you are saying you are completely useless for day1?

[leviathan93]

or are you just saying you can't do those three things you stated and have to go by other means?

[leviathan93]

Prohawk, i agree. I am too since she was so good at what she was doing in the beginning, but has flaked out. however, she did just say she was busy with school so that does make complete sense in the matter. I would just hope that she now starts to contribute again.

[leviathan93]

yeah, it is true that a game that I played as scum just recently ended. mala was the mod. however, i did not know that i could talk in the confirmation stage then either and learned that I could once night 1 happened. I was already in this game when that happened since I joined multiple games.

[leviathan93]

Re: 625 - Who cares if you "claimed" town? You are by no means confirmed and have provided us with little to base reads on. If scum is smart you will live a long and fruitful life until we lynch you, you improve your play, or we win. I am not even going to go down the road of explaining why keeping you around to LYLO with your current play is certain death for us.

Levi, are you afraid to call people scum, point out scum tells & vote for them?

Did you or your scum buddy get lynched in your scum game?

The goal is to discover the "scum thinking" in people's posts. It won't be as obvious as saying "I am scum" but things that indirectly say the same thing. Your reads post #628 is no improvement at all because you have everyone listed as town or null. Granted this game is more difficult than your standard newbie game as most players are experienced in this thread but you need to upgrade your honesty, aggression & confidence levels to the point where you can effectively scum hunt.

Posting a full game of town reads means you are doing it wrong.

What games do you enjoy playing besides Mafia?

Yes, I am afraid to call people scum. I don't really trust myself with scum tells or voting as i feel very new to the site. This being said I don't feel I am reading people very well and my analysis and reasons are very lacking because of it.
i know that i have everyone almost listed as town or null. I know that i have people feeling more town than others and thats what I kind of am going off of for who scum is or not. and yes, i do know this, but i feel that will come with the more games i play and the more players I play with and learn their style. and i know that much. =P i just felt like if I ever have a thought on the game that i should put it out there for people to look at and mull over and see if it helps any. less information won't help us, but more information is always better I feel in the long run.

and i don't understand your games question. also as for a language it is tied for my first.

[leviathan93]

@mala it wasn't being a kiss up. it was being truthful. borky made valid points. I agree with those points and thought they were logical. I like logic and reason. especially in this game because why would scum want to use logic and reason other then to throw people off their trail. the more logic someone uses the more it can be torn apart and figured out to see if it is true or not. I believe scum can be found that way.

and i know how you feel about my claim. whether its helpful or not I want to find this out for myself. plus I also don't understand your fact that if I claimed why doesn't everyone believe me? huh? it could have been pointless and it just gives you a little bit to go off of. i feel that I will either get killed during the night now or kept alive to try to maybe throw you guys off the trail and lynch me yourselves while they kill y'all other innocents during the night.

[leviathan93]

yes, thats why i said they would use logic to try to throw others off their trail. but they have to be good with that logic or they will make a scumslip. and ok ok, i get it. you are making your point. you don't believe in claiming. well, I'm trying something here thats my own little strategy of sorts and so I want to really see what will happen and how it will go. if you by i don't understand how much it can hurt you mean making it easier for the scum to target the pr's then i get it. and ok, you get slips? i don't understand how. but ok then. and i'm not so much as confident that I will get night killed as in that i'm more confident that if that doesn't happen then i feel you guys will decide to lynch me in oncoming days.

and honestly, no i don't think you're scum. I think you have been very helpful in this game. this could be that you can easily deceive me, me being new and all, but i personally believe this time i'm not wrong about someone. i believe you and adam to be the biggest town reads I have at the moment. prohawk coming in third, but still little iffy on that.

[leviathan93]

you're really confusing me here. =/ i have called you town all game minus one or two posts claiming that either you are really good at fooling me or you are town like I feel you are. labeling things in a scum mindset? what does that mean? that I am cautious and trying to think things through and trying to think how scum would act so we can best monitor their movements and see who they are? thats like total pro town behavior or maybe i'm just stupid. how do i clearly label you as scum? FOR THE LAST TIME I DO NOT THINK YOU"RE SCUM!

[leviathan93]

I never argued that it didn't. what i'm arguing about is the fact that you think i have a scum read on you. I don't. I never did. I'm not throwing out the possibility but i'm trying to trust my gut here and it says you are innocent. think of me as scum all you want. that's not really my concern. my concern is catching actual scum and I see no point in arguing with you since I already made my claim and don't have much else to say on the matter.

[leviathan93]

@shrimp that is exactly what I am doing. =P trying to find scum. and bad posts? lol, i'm posting anything that comes to my mind that I think may help us get there. if you don't like the posts fine, ill just lurk and not say my thoughts at all and just vote people and give no reasons because apparently my posts are awful and aren't taken seriously. If I didn't find mala so innocent then i'd probably think she was scum for voting me with her reasoning, because I personally believe it to be very wrong. I believe that she's trying to actually find scum and if it takes her thinking i'm scum to get there then so be it.

[leviathan93]

yeah, it is true that a game that I played as scum just recently ended. mala was the mod. however, i did not know that i could talk in the confirmation stage then either and learned that I could once night 1 happened. I was already in this game when that happened since I joined multiple games.

So it took you all the way until N1 to figure out that you could chat N0?? Why didn't you see that you could chat N0 from the initial posts in the Q/T like Mala said??

because i didn't really read the message all the way through. i'm a lazy motherfucker like that. i just learned that I was mafia and was like ok.

[leviathan93]

First of all I would like to say for me to honestly believe much of what thor says I would like him to read up and be caught up. I believe him to be an excellent player and if he really is town he would actually read it so he could catch and understand the mistakes that happened earlier on and know who was scum since for the most part I kind of trust him. At least for this other game i'm in with him as well. if he reads he can therefore make very accurate decisions and thoughts. I agree that a lot of us thought mollie to be scum for random reasons across the board. that being said, I understand prohawk's concern that we have to start over with her replacement because I specifically feel for thor that we won't have the same mistakes that mollie made "if she did make them". However, I really found the prohawks push for thors lynch and an end to the day to be really scummy and unsettling. i know its getting close to the end of the day and i know we all want a lynch but if we push it we are most likely to guess wrong. there is no rush for the end of the day. THIS if anything is what I would see as a scumslip. but i don't really know my abilities of being right or not.

[leviathan93]

Really? Are you saying scum won't deliabelty want to fish out reactions for finding PRs.

have I said anything about wanting to find out Pr's? NO! id like them to be kept secret so they can help town! just saying!

[leviathan93]

Also I think I would like to add that if we would ever consider the possibility of thor EVER being scum we can only judge mollie's previous game. This is my personal opinion because for me personally I really doubt I could read thor or even catch him if he were to make a scumslip. This being said. if we were to lynch him it would be to the "mistakes" of mollie and not for his action is this game. though I have my doubts on that matter of whether he is scum or not, if people really believe he is scum then he we should just lynch him right now and suffer the consequences. However if this is not the case and we do not believe he is scum then all the people on his wagon should change because it would be pointless to consider still pushing for his lynch if no one can actually agree on it. I believe if thats the fact there is something wrong with the situation.

[leviathan93]

Vote Count

Thor665 (L-2): Shrimp85, Adam-12, ProHawk
Mantisdreamz (L-4): borkjerfkin
Leviathan (L-4): Malakittens
ProHawk (L-4): Thor665
Malakittens (L-4): Mantisdreamz

Not Voting: leviathan93, Guile

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

I am wondering about this from what thor has said and I think he may have a point. I always think it to be highly probable that scum is on the very first wagon to occur or the first person who is lynched. AT LEAST one of them is scum. (most likely) I feel. unless the scum get really lucky and don't have to do anything to get town to lynch their own. i feel that may be rare though. I don't know, I haven't played enough yet to see whether that is truly the case. If thor DOES have a point though, this means in my personal opinion either shrimp or prohawk is scum because I personally believe adam to be really town. No that should not be news to anyone. I have said it multiple times before just like I have said mala is town or that is at least what I feel. whether thor is lying or not will change this read COMPLETELY but i'm currently feeling that he is not. that being said my main town reads have always been adam as most town. mala I still want to believe is town despite her thinking i'm scum, i think my read on guile and bork has been nullified so I don't think i know anymore. and i understand mantis' thinking mala to be scum for attacking me if people actually believe me to be town like I said I was. Thus my conclusion of scum is either shrimp or prohawk and either guile or bork.

[leviathan93]

that was a slip? =P really? no, I meant what I said. If we believe thor to be truly guilty let's all agree to lynch him and suffer the consequences. consequences can either be good or bad. would you rather I said "suffer the effects"? . and if we don't agree to lynch him, then I believe the whole wagon on him is pointless.

[leviathan93]

The phrase "suffer the consequences" always means something negative.

I can understand that but what I meant by suffer what we would have to deal with the responsibility of our actions and there was no way we can take them back. whether it have been a good decision or a bad decision. I count that as suffering. because it makes the decision as a whole THAT much harder to do. are we wrong or are we right. there's no going back once we make the decision. I see the situation as a whole extremely negative because of that. That is why I used the word suffer.

[leviathan93]

maybe borkjerfkin should be lynched.

I found this humorous. just saying. =P i have nothing of any worth to add to this, but it settles the dispute between adam and thor right now. =)

[leviathan93]

As it is, he just expects us to trust him but he hasn't done anything to earn that trust.

this is a towntell if anything.

i really don't necessarily think this is a towntell. i sense nothing. its just a true rational reason. Thor hasn't earned our trust. I think its cuz he hasn't read and I know he says he won't but i feel he should because his readings would be very helpful.

[leviathan93]

@thor I really don't want to pick a wagon. It doesn't make me useless not too. i personally naturally feel neither of you are scum unless I go by how mollie played. Yes, she seemed very emotional. Is playing mafia and having emotional points scummy though? i don't want to lynch thor this first day unless really thats what others want. as for prohawk i'm not necessarily to keen on lynching him even though you seem to be painting him in a very scummy light for going at odds with you. just because two people fight doesn't mean one is scum. town can get frustrated too.

[leviathan93]

honestly I'd feel more likely to lynch shrimp then either of the wagons at the moment.

[leviathan93]

I see by not voting shrimp if is a pointless thing that it is in fact NOT being useless. or unless you just agree that I shouldn't be useless and therefore not care about my vote and just put it on someone I think is most likely to be lynched. Do y'all agree I should do that? if so, then I will! I will only want to lynch the person that I feel I can make the lynch go through. that makes SO MUCH SENSE when trying to find scum. and also I didn't see shrimp's saying that he had a problem couldn't get on. he hasn't posted in a while so I wanted to give him a chance to post again before I made my decision on the matter. but maybe I should just lynch someone because someone else told me too without thinking it through...hmmm....i have so many choices at the moment...

[leviathan93]

can I help it that I want to be actually right and so i'm having a hard time making that decision? I don't want to vote someone because of other people's reasons and then have you suddenly believe i'm scum for following someone's reasoning and not my own. i've seen that happen too many times and i even haven't played this game that long.

@thor it doesn't make me useless because I ACTUALLY want to help town by NOT being wrong. I know day 1 may be a hard decision to lynch but still i'd rather really really think things through then just be quick about my guess of who I should lynch and stick with it the entire first day. if that was the case I'd have decided to lynch shrimp a long time ago. he redeemed himself to me a bit and then became even more scummy to me and he hasn't been around to state his opinion on the game or add his input. another thing I see as scummy. but I want him to return before I vote him.

[leviathan93]

VOTE: shrimp fine. It is what my gut tells me at the moment. I didn't like his game in the beginning. His arguments seemed flawed and have always seemed a bit flawed compared to everyone's elses arguments. he redeemed himself a bit but then I felt he backtracked overall from that. then he disappeared completely. apart from seeming useless at the moment. I don't see much pro-town play in him.

[leviathan93]

@mala that could have been because he wanted to appear innocent in his first post and not have to say anything later since he already seemed so town.

[leviathan93]

how are you so sure something was a townslip? thats just like saying something is a scumslip. what is the basis for them? its a perception thing, i'm wondering.

[leviathan93]

or he could have just been stupid like i was reading him to be in the beginning. =/ i wouldn't have understood that I was a pr if I had gotten scum.

[leviathan93]

I understand thats what I would have gotten, and maybe they technically are pr roles' but maybe its cuz i personally don't see them as it and thus i wouldn't have stated it. plus maybe he was just trying to stop all pr's from coming out so no one would know who possibly was a pr so it would protect all of them and thus scum themselves.

[leviathan93]

also your surety in the matter bugs me. i'm not necessarily sure but its what I currently believe in going for at the moment. do you not want me to lynch your partner hawk? is that why you defend shrimp?

[leviathan93]

UNVOTE:

yes prohawk, your surety bugs me. all surety does in this game. it either means you are scummy or you are wrong. at least in my opinion. i may have not played many games but everytime i see someone so sure of themselves it is either or. and ok. it does sound like a townslip. i never denied this fact. but he still has just seemed almost really useless to me as of late and that is giving me scum vibes.

[leviathan93]

As you said Mala I don't care how i look when I play town, because all i care about is being honest and finding scum. =P town can say scummy things too. and they get mislynched a hell of a lot for it. you continue to seem town to me, and i view your and prohawk's arguments to be pointless cuz it looks like town on town and not getting anywhere.

[leviathan93]

VOTE: shrimpI really want to know if shrimp is scum or town or not. His recent play is lacking and bugs me a lot. yes he could be busy, but still. he seemed to be doing ok (minus i feel messing up in the beginnning).

[leviathan93]

UNVOTE: shrimp/angel is innocent i think. angel seems more innocent of a player then shrimp did.

[leviathan93]

how the hell am i acting scummy? =P (just to make sure everyone is aware of what i'm saying and doing)

[leviathan93]

@thor it was because angel actually seems to be innocent compared to how shrimp played. she seems helpful even though she hasn't been in that long and like she is trying to make up for the shittiness of shrimp's play. it could be to hide the fact that she is scum but i see it more as proving his innocence. i already thought shrimp looked possibly townish, but I still didn't like his play. especially later in the game. yes I had a hunch that he was town but i saw him a better candidate for scumminess then i think mala is scummy and yet y'all just want to lynch her. i personally disagree with that lynch. so if you want to lynch her then i'm not going to be apart of it. my reads so far as of now are.

mala confirmed town for me
Adam confirmed town for me
angel confirmed town for me
leviathan claimed town
thor town as much as i know

prohawk=could be either leaning town
mantis could be either more null
bork could be either leaning scum
guille could be either leaning scum

[leviathan93]

yes I did. on purpose i might add. i believe I am town but that doesn't necessarily mean y'all believe it. i hope you do. but if y'all still have doubts in y'all eyes about what my alignment is then i'm not confirmed town.

[leviathan93]

@

Levi

:

Why is Mala Conf town for you?
Why is Thor Town?


So you basically have no reads on anyone, everybody else is null? Care to commit to a Vote?

@

Everyone

: Does anybody find it odd that Levi interacts/responds with Mollie in only has 3 posts out of 80? For comparison, he has 10 posts on Thor.

Mala is town because I have always seen her as such pretty much. In the beginning I got an innocent vibe for her being so helpful and logically/rationally scumhunting. She hasn't seemed to do anything scummy to me even though y'all claims that she has. the way she questioned shrimp in the beginning as well as jumped on me as well as trying to get out of RVS as soon as possible because that benefits town seemed like she was really trying to help. i doubt scum would do that.

as well as the same for thor/mollie. mollie seemed to be doing somethings that were scummy a bit, but then again I feel my natural play makes me look incredibly scummy sometimes. that was just my reads for mollie. when thor came into play he seemed to be logically playing his thor self being helpful and analytical and all as well as blunt and dickish. yes, he can be scum and doing this to throw us off his path but i just don't know. as well s the fact that i stated since thor took mollie's place i doubt I could ever read thor correctly because of his experience. so with him i have always decided to take a side and stick with it. i say town right now cuz i feel he redeemed himself from mollie's play.

as well as for you guille. are you trying to make me look scummy because I have you as one of my most likely scum? what does it matter how many posts I have on a person or whatnot? are you trying to force a scumtell here? you're jump on me makes me think you as looking more scummy and would have looked better to me if you hadn't.

[leviathan93]

I thin that is what we have been trying to figure out angel. i honestly don't think it is just THAT easy.

[leviathan93]

VOTE: mantis I don't know, but I really think I can agree with a mantis lynch since she seems so null to me and could lean either way and we won't know for certain until she flips.

[leviathan93]

@angel. anyone would defend themselves from getting lynched. =P do you have a better way of going about voting her or not? =P

[leviathan93]

At least his underwhelming has been consistent...

It doesn't matter if his underwhelming is consistent. that could be seen as lurking. especially if he doesn't have many useful things to add.

[leviathan93]

how is thinking that you are going to be town count as scum trying to win townpoints? I have no idea if you are scum or town. I give you a great amount of towncred from the way you handled being thrown into the position mollie left you in, but I do not like guaranteeing you that position, because I know you to be an extremely experienced player. regardless if you are scum or town you are very helpful. I intend to use that helpfulness to help find scum in this game and any other game I ever play with you in.

[leviathan93]

don't know how people could get away with that. i believe anyone who gets lynched innocently always has scum on their wagon unless they are really lucky. this could be true. but regardless everyone on the wagon once the lynch is over should be looked at thoroughly in my opinion. no one should ever be let off the hook for a standard reason. only if you yourself are convinced they may be innocent.

[leviathan93]

scum should always stay away from a wagon if they can, but id say the majority of times they are unable to do so. therefore at least one or more scum will have to be on a wagon to push it forward. it always has to be a majority vote.

[leviathan93]

beats me. how would I know scum strategy if i'm not scum. maybe both are on. id just think its likelier that one is on. and yes, that would make one off. but would it be easier to find those that are on or those that are off to be scum? I think it would look more obvious for the people ON the wagon because the scum on knows that person is innocent. if he turns out to be. if he turns out to be scum then i would probably say it was more likely to be off the wagon then on, because the whole "lynching your partner for town cred thing" is bullshit in my opinion.

[leviathan93]

UNVOTE: I'll actually read the last 3 pages now and put my thoughts on them. definitely not tracker or a pr. just a vanilla townie.

[leviathan93]

From what I have read I agree with the bork lynch. from my reads of these past pages as well as my own thoughts on him I feel there is a possibility of scum. I am okay with hammering.

[leviathan93]

and for the record angel I claimed town in like the first two pages.

[leviathan93]

VOTE: bork

[leviathan93]

i claimed vanilla townie. nothing special. because i just thought by me specifically coming out in the open it would help us catch scum easier. mala disagrees with my strategy here. i see her as town because of it and other things she has done. I want to see for myself how this works out though. i don't like when someone claims pr. especially when i'm voting them. i always have to hop off the wagon no matter what because i'd rather lynch someone else then a claimed person that first day or on that day. mantis took the risk because we were probably going to lynch if the claim didn't happen. yes it worked. but still. we can decide tomorrow after night happens.

[leviathan93]

if bork does turn out to be town then at least i'll be finally glad to know what he is. he and guille i have the worst reads on at the moment.

Vote Count
Malakittens (L-2): Thor665, Borkjerfkin, ProHawk
Borkjerfkin (L-0): Mantisdreamz, Malakittens, Adam-12, Guile, Leviathan93
Mantis (L-4): ArcAngel9

Not Voting: -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[leviathan93]

yes, I read what i post. and I will be glad regardless of what he flips. we FINALLY know someone's alignment for certain. if he is scum then YAY!! if he is town then i feel I have a better read on the game so far. I don't know what bork is. he was null for me. mala is town! so between the two, I'd definitely vote bork. and i'd do it again and again and again.

[leviathan93]

lol, because i'm totally going to be the next lynch. =P i'm sorry, i SO forgot about that. =P

[leviathan93]

I hammered because I was under the impression that we were over the deadline. i highly doubt bork to be a pr. if he is, then my bad. but I really don't believe he is. either way I still would have chosen to lynch bork over mala. since I feel I KNOW her to be town.

[leviathan93]

for votes to count they must always be bolded.

[leviathan93]

Thor665 (L-4): Adam-12
Malakittens (L-2): Thor665, Bork, Hawk
Bork (L-1): Mantisdreamz, Mala, Adam, Guille
Mantis (L-3): Leviathan93, Angel
Levi: (L-5):

Not Voting:

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Thank GOODNESS this isn't a vote count because if it was, I am certain the Mod would [do terrible unmentionable and censored things] to me!

if this is the vote count then its wrong because adam is voting twice.

[leviathan93]

Hammer now Levi, we don't know when Majiffy will come in to shut us down. Day should have ended a while ago if we were adhering to the official time-schedule.

Angel, because the day is over today and you need 5 votes to lynch.

VOTE: bork

These posts look especially bad.

how do they look bad? I specifically already said I would hammer and then he said I better do it quick if I was and so I did it quick.

[leviathan93]

YAY!! I love being scum whenever I claim town!! =D yay!!! lynch me!!!

[leviathan93]

I know. =) i just wanted to rile people up with comebacks. =)

[leviathan93]

is the vote even valid?!!? was adam really voting bork or did he vote thor? i pointed this out already!

[leviathan93]

and wouldn't it be better to lynch someone who HASN'T claimed something. =P i mean its not going to get you guys anywhere. its not its going to go like "oh darn" sorry! i'm at L-1. Just kidding! i'm the town-watcher! don't lynch me! =) oops...did i just say that out loud? lol. =P oh well. I guess that means you can't lynch me unless someone else is going to counterclaim me! =) you don't want to lynch the watcher or whatever its name is do you? =) yay! discuss how scummy this message makes me!!!

[leviathan93]

hope y'all all got that bunch of sarcasm. =P

[leviathan93]

lol, I would tend to disagree with that hawky boy. =) i think I have posted more in this game then any other game I have ever been in. =) i guess since its the longest game i've ever been in and it hasn't even been to day 2 yet! OGLDKJDLJDLKSJLIDIWI(! (frustrated giggle). =P and its cuz the game isn't really doing much and since the hammer either did or did not go through, i can say whatever I want. if i'm so lynchable i don't know why I wasn't just first lynched. seriously. why waste bork when you can waste me? why would you save me if people think bork is innocent? i'm guilty if y'all want to lynch me tomorrow then. =P I call you stupid for wanting to lynch a town and not someone else. but thats just coming from a town point of view here. =)

[leviathan93]

uh oh, i think Levi is starting to lose his cool after discovering that we're onto him!

hahahaha!! This is now how my moods will go. =)

[leviathan93]

I kind of agree with adam about that mala. You are way to experienced to say that you think i'm scum for the reasons you do. regardless of how i think of you as town. you did really well in the beginning as a protown person and I still think you are. whether it be you just don't care anymore or what. your reasonings are lacking I think.

[leviathan93]

Levi, please sat that that paragraph was part of your mood shifts.

yes it was actually. =) it was supposed to be the cop part of me scrutinizing someone for their case on me. it was either going to be mala or hawk. =)

[leviathan93]

what what mala? =)

[leviathan93]

lol, ok then. =P believe me I have a few more posts lined up for the specific emotion that I want them to be. =) but then that means i'm planning ahead so i must be scum right? =D

[leviathan93]

i know I am. =) i'm glad SOMEONE finally called me out on it. =) i'm trying to prove how i'm scum here!!

oh and mantis I think I lied. i'm not going to use all the emotions that I said. i'm not really feeling embarassment at my play. my bad!

I'll stop now mala! =)

[leviathan93]

congrats for us as town for bork! but NO MALA! I so knew it!

[leviathan93]

My reads for the beginning of this day are this.

Adam: I have as most town because of the complete thoroughness in the way he plays the game. taking notes and what not. if he is scummy actually, i'll shoot myself in the foot after this game but I will continue believing him to be town for the remainder of this game. unless some drastic change happens.

Thor: I have a little suspicion about. mainly because i had no idea bork was actually going to turn up scum and it was a complete shocker to me that we actually got one on the first day. especially with how the very end of the day went with voting wise. i do not like thor's absence at all. I think his experience would be nice to see right now and the fact that he isn't doesn't thrill me that much. null leaning possible scum at the moment. get back here thor.

angel. I feel like she is town for the most part. she seems innocent enough and not scummy compared to how shrimp played. her actions seem all town motivated to me.

Hawk. He has seemed helpful throughout the game, but I am beginning to become suspicious of him because of that. he seems a bit pushy and forceful and that just seems to me to think that mistakes may occur if we listen to him. if he is indeed scum then he may have been trying to bluff me into lynching bork thinking that I would not actually do it. thus guessing wrong. leaning scum at the moment.

guille: I don't like just because i am getting a null read from him. null reads for me at this point in the game give me an uneasy feeling. so because hes null i'm going to say possibly leaning scum.

mantis. I believe to be town at this moment. i believe her claim to be the tracker and so i would like her insights when she gets back.

leviathan; thats me and i'm an innocent fucker. because i've stated it a billion times already and in mala's honor i will continue to say it.

[leviathan93]

lol. anyone can make someone look bad for some stupid thing that either is a point or not. I believe adam's review about angel actually made me believe her more to be town then actual scum. i feel scum wouldn't make that error normally. it is too obvious and i don't like seeing people as being stupid enough to make mistakes. especially scum even if they are not newb scum.

Vote Count

ProHawk (L-3): Adam-12
Mantisdreamz (L-3): ArcAngel9

Not Voting: - Thor665, ProHawk, Mantisdreamz, Guile, Leviathan93

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is Thursday, January 10th, 2013 at 5:30 PM EST

[leviathan93]

are newb scum.

[leviathan93]

mantis has got a point. that would be one quick game! minus the whole 68 pages day 1 thing....still mantis what do you have to report as tracker?

[leviathan93]

angel. there is only one mafia left. not two. is that a slip? or something?

[leviathan93]

It is a definite possibility that thor is scum. i'm not saying this for sure but it is my gut right now. I do have an uneasy feel about guille but honestly its because of his beginning play as a lurker that bugs me the most and I feel he hasn't added much other then really long explanations every once in a while. yes, they are kind of helpful but still. it may be because he is trying to just get by. i don't know. honestly my hammer of bork was luck. I chose bork because I felt mala was innocent. even though I had pretty much absolutely no read on bork, and to find out he is scum scared the bejeebies out of me. to me, that either means I suck at judging people, catching scum tells or what. if that is the case then i am almost shit out of luck. however, i was confident in my mala as town read and her death unfortunately confirms that.
adam is the new mala for me this day. he is my confirmed town. so am I. for me this leaves 5. mantis claims tracker so this leaves 4. thor, angel, hawk, guille. my gut tells me to believe angel. this leaves 3. thor, hawk, guille. hawk seems helpful, but pushy. could be like someone who doesn't care about how they look which to me is a town tell. this is only a light read that could be wrong however. but ill go with it for the time being. this leaves 2. thor and guille. I am not impressed with guille at the moment and i believe scum to be most likely in one of those two. therefore my vote goes too. VOTE: guille

[leviathan93]

you forgot me majiffy...i'm on guille...

[leviathan93]

and guille isn't voting himself..,

[leviathan93]

Thor, you are just wrong on this. Before Guille voted, Mala was at L-2, and Bork was at L-2.

You are correct.

Unvore: Guille
Vote: Leviathan

lol. definitely don't understand the vote switch. =P but ok. i feel that came out of nowhere. unless its your gut i don't really understand.

[leviathan93]

also if guille is innocent. my next vote would be on you thor. and i have no problem with hammering that. just so everyone is clear about that. i'm still just not necessarily clear on guille's innocence yet.

[leviathan93]

i am clear adam. my sights are on guille. i think he is more scummy then thor is at the moment. if there is anytime where I think guille may actually be innocent. then my next person is thor. i will not just hammer him. I will announce that I am unvoting guille and that i will be ready to hammer thor when everyone has a chance to put in their final thoughts on the matter. its the beginning of the day still. of course i'm not going to hammer yet.

[leviathan93]

@mantis this is true, but that also doesn't mean he is innocent. it could be doing a good truthful read to protect a "so called townie" because he would know if he is scum and then change the vote to another townie. thereby making him look innocent for calling someone else out. still a possibility.

also thor. I hammered. so that makes me scum? i admit that the only reason I was on that wagon or chose to vote bork was because I didn't want to lynch mala. thats nothing new. i would have chosen you over mala too. and if it was her or adam then I wouldn't have voted at all.

[leviathan93]

awww man!!! i totally hoped the hammer would clear me!!! =(

[leviathan93]

lol. just kidding. =P

[leviathan93]

Ok. so I am having a bit confusion here. my reads are this.
adam is town
mantis is town
I am town
angel is town that I believe but maybe not as sure as the others
thor seems town from how he is acting
prohawk seems town for how much he is pressuring thor and could be an honest mistake is what it seems like to me.

therefore what I don't understand is that guille is the only one left of this. but apparently people think guille is town. i'm not really convinced on this matter though...its weird. he seemed to be lurking in the beginning and yet so did bork...which turned out to be scum. I remember painting both of them as possible scum but thought that i was in the wrong because it was in the beginning of the game. with the turn of bork, it freaked me the fuck out. i had no real reason to believe he was scum. yet i thought he could have been. it was a light gut thing. but now i'm just wondering about guille. am I so wrong about this that both of them are scum or is guille innocent and someone else is scum...either thor or prohawk. no. they both seem town even though prohawk's pushiness could be considered scummy in a way. but it could also be concerned town wanting to move the game along. adam seems too helpful honestly to be scum. too much notes, and observations, and whatnot. he would be such a good scummy person if he actually turned out to be it but i really dont think so. angel. she seems innocent enough despite shrimps stupidity early in the game so i'm giving her the benefit for that. mantis claimed tracker. so yay! i'm sorry I believe her. i've claimed vanilla townie since the beginning despite mala's hatred of that. which is why I believe her town which she was. therefore guille seems the only one weird to me. yet if he is innocent. i really don't know who else would be scummy...

[leviathan93]

Exactly right Mantis. I agree with that. his posts have not looked forced. He questions everyone. he questions everyTHING. =P and just seems generally like a townie. if he IS scum then damn. I would never have thought of it. that is the difference between thor and adam for me. Thor COULD be either. as prohawk says he may be really good at getting himself out of a lynch. i sense a bit of emotion of frustration when he mentioned why mollie replaced out "headache". that seems innocent enough for me, because i completely agree how this game could be frustrating. thats why I believe thor to be town. but still could be just really good at the game. I don't know. that leaves two confirmed town for me. I make three. mantis makes four. that leaves three left. angel, hawk, guille. i said angel town. so hawk an guille are my main two scum and i prefer guille over hawk.

[leviathan93]

the cautiousness of me broke because people in this game and others i have played keep saying too cautious is not good and I have to risk things and reads on people. trying to be more doing something than not doing much. i literally see it as a fluke that i actually hammered scum. totally thought i was killing town.

[leviathan93]

all these arguments for thor make me uneasy. frankly because i feel I KNOW and REALIZE that he is a good player. he is capable of doing pretty much doing anything in my eyes. however, he does have a point. he is exceptional at reasoning. something i am not. I only have more gut feelings in the matter that of course can be wrong. and I kind of believe him when he says the reasons for wanting to lynch him because of mollie were a little bad. i feel it was more like a "didn't like her playstyle" situation and something bugged us. it bugged me too, but thor has pointed out that is not necessarily a scum tell. true, but rationality doesn't always convince gut. If thor is scum then he is always a damn good one. however, i feel he has some frustration with this game that makes me see him as town. if hes not, then well, fuck me. i'm wrong. i felt guille's post convinced me of "trying to look into an area other than me" kind of feel. even though i would give him town points for trying to not talk about himself. i still think its pretty clear to me. Adam is NOT scum. mantis is NOT scum. I am NOT scum. angel is NOTish scum. Thor is NOTish scum. prohawk is notish scum. and guille seems ish scum.

[leviathan93]

honestly, because as a whole for this game he has been more help then you. and if you are calling yourself town then he must be REALLY town. it is true that I have not met someone with a playstyle like his before, but from what i see its seriously pro pro town. maybe its a reverse psychological thing, but i really doubt it. it seems genuine to me. its pretty much one of my strongest reads as of now and i had him and mala both as town. he has been just as helpful as she was and more because he posts more. i highly doubt its scum being post happy. too many mistakes he could of made but didn't by posting a lot.

[leviathan93]

I really don't think thor is scum. if he is then lol. wow. I also don't like hawk's martyr option. that would seem like losing three townies. because one will be dead during the night. then there will be 4 of us left. me, adam, angel, and guille and mantis. depending on which one of us is killed. lets not be hasty on saying who should be next lynch. we need to find out who is killed during the night. even though it makes me think that both thor and hawk are town with hawk's willing to martyr. this makes me want guille gone. then next would be angel. because mantis and adam are town for me.

[leviathan93]

I disagree hawk. everyone kind of has their own interestingness when it gets down too 2 town 1 scum. i bet even if I got to the end someone would be tearing me apart and my confirmed town would be taken into question. therefore everyone would be scrutinized and you would continue to have your normal reads from everyone. martyrness is not necessarily a good thing and I think its NOT a good thing the majority of the time.

[leviathan93]

i never said I was. I'm confirmed town for me. thats what makes this easier for me. and if i'm pretty easy to tear apart doesn't that mean i'm innocent? why would scum be pretty easy to tear apart? in my eyes they wouldn't be. which is why my vote is on guille.

[leviathan93]

damn! I knew she was innocent! =/ mantis is definitely confirmed town i think. adam is still strong town for me, i'm town. this means guille or hawk... but i feel hawk is town because of guille's play. I am seeing a pattern with people who are scummy in my games past. this would make guille scum like I have thought he would be. VOTE: guille

[leviathan93]

well, I personally think that scum is either in hawk or guille. with this in mind i technically see it that town has a win either way even if we lynch wrong this time and someone dies during the night. that will definitely confirm it for us. town will not lose during a three alive lynch or lose situation.

[leviathan93]

that could be a scummy side ploy of yours hawk. =P but regardless of the reason and if adam IS scum then he is by far the best scum i have ever played with. =) so go adam!

[leviathan93]

Prohawk. if you think i'm town, why lynch me? that is stupid if the case is just not to have me get to lynch or lose. you don't sacrifice a townie when you have the opportunity to lynch scum THAT is not rational thinking. which is a bit hypocritical if i say so myself. =P also the we have already confirmed that mantis is town. therefore of course the rest of the four of us are possible scum. so duh. each one of us is saying there is a possibility of the other THREE to be scum because we are basically trying to confirm ourselves town. I came out very early in the game because I was hoping to help by coming out as town. when we got down to this point. by having TWO at least confirmed town. i believe we have three because of me. adam, mantis, and me. that leaves us with two. hawk or guille and I think it is hawk. it is not just a gut read anymore. its a learning how scum have played in every other game I have played and analyzing possibilities and likelihoods. if adam is the scum then he is and outlier for my analysis, because I have not met a player like him yet. but he has given me a strong town read all game from my gut and I have been right on every player so far except bork. who I lynched only because I believed mala was innocent. I believe there is scum in either you or guille and my read is very strong for that. if we lynch either of you I will be happy because then it will further allow us to win in lynch or lose.

[leviathan93]

sorry. i meant guille. not hawk.

[leviathan93]

as the scummiest of the two.

[leviathan93]

so are you saying that you think hawk is town mantis?

Vote Count

ProHawk (L-2): Adam-12
Guile (L-2): Leviathan93
Adam-12 (L-2): ProHawk

Not Voting: - Mantisdreamz, Guile

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day Three has begun. Deadline is Thursday, Jan 17th (I think?) at 3:00 PM EST

[leviathan93]

Which i see him being town because of it. which is why i personally think its guille.

[leviathan93]

i see hawk's actions are less careful then guille's seems to be.

[leviathan93]

The reason i say i'm more of a gut player is because i'm not good with words and cannot convince others with cool obvious persuasive reasons to vote for someone. I can't control votes. This being said, It was also because i hadn't played that many games yet. up to date I have and so i'm WAY more confident in myself now. especially about who is scummy and who is town. I really doubt scum could eat me alive in lynch or lose, because i know how to play then most of all.

and adam I really don't see what you are talking about how that makes guille town. it could be a strategy, but I don't see how it makes him town in the slightest.

[leviathan93]

I agree with the lynching your partner for the win and guarantee until the end. i also see why it would make sense for scum to leave me until the end because they think if it got to lynch or lose i would be the obvious target. and they would win. and by lurking I think that would have been a more obvious scum tell then busing your partner for town cred. the more talking that is going on the more i'm getting a bad feeling. hawk is looking more and more town. and adam is protecting guille. adam is town. but prohawk thinks that is false. even though i see it as an obvious. leaving out mantis in all this now its like 3 can be scum. adam, hawk, and guille. I still believe its guille. he had played under the radar and thats what I see as possibly scummy. adam nor hawk have played under the radar. they have played above the radar and both seem town to me. i don't like guille's under the radarness. bork played under the radar for me and he was scum. in other games i see the same thing.

[leviathan93]

maybe it wasn't necessarily deliberate. it could be planned, i don't know. i haven't played scum that much. but I do see that lynching your own partner gives you major town points and cred. I mean come on, if that is the case then its working because of how much you are defending him. if not, then I don't really know. it would be between you and hawk for me if he wasn't but I really think i'm spot on. because both you seem above the radar town players to me at the moment and the huge outlier of the situation would be mantis lying as tracker, but since we have seen so many people die and turn up no tracker then i am really inclined to believe her.

[leviathan93]

why wouldn't you want to confirm it for later if you were scum? i don't know. a person doesn't need to be desperate to solidify the game for themself and their partner. and slow well thought out game IS not what a townsperson does really. they could care less as long as they find out who scum is.

[leviathan93]

but I do want guille to come back and hear what he has to say.

[leviathan93]

then HELL! I am scum then! if guille isn't. =/ if guille is not scum then my vote goes on you hawk.

[leviathan93]

that has nothing to do with it! its literally beyond my understand that he could be scum unless its an outlier. it has nothing to do with outstanding game or not. i see him as being town. i still see guille as not being town. like I did with mala and bork. Id rather see guille lynched then adam.

[leviathan93]

if guille is town that would make adam or hawk scum. and thats a huge battle that makes me completely "aldjlaksdjlksjdflkjsdlfj" i have been in that situation before and I chose wrong and am not really keen on that being what it is. i'm waiting for guille to come back.

[leviathan93]

fuck dude....its so true....

[leviathan93]

adam is too perfect.

[leviathan93]

its the same situation i was in, only its not lynch or lose. currently leaning to agree with hawk about adam. IF guille is not scum that is. i want him back.

[leviathan93]

UNVOTE: ok. so this is a tough decision that I think needs to be made now rather than later. its between adam and hawk of who is scum. i don't know who though, but i feel that is the best bet of the matter...

[leviathan93]

I wouldn't put it past you either adam being as studious as you are. however, i didn't notice the soft claim either so i give you points there. as well as the fact that hawk it WAS out there to do that whole post you did even it I think it was literally the nail on the head of adams activities. like a play by the book scum. and it literally was convincing to me how adam could be the perfect scum and the last one...it literally is between hawk and adam at the moment. THIS i want to make clear. as town, we have two shots at this. if we guess wrong. its lynch or lose and I think it will be obvious to everyone who the scum is once either hawk or adam is gone and mantis is left. even if i'm dead and its guille, mantis and adam or hawk.

[leviathan93]

as I said. if he has. GO ADAM! but seriously. he would need to be lynched because of it...

[leviathan93]

Since its Adam or hawk this time around for me. I guess my vote is this. VOTE: adam

[leviathan93]

either way I think the scum is between you and hawk. honestly to me. hawk seems more scummy then you are but he does have is weird convincing point that has me really kind of convinced. and it was you that convinced me that guille was town when I really thought him scummy...so that seems like a town thing. I JUST DON"T KNOW AND AM REALLY CONFUSED AND MY HEAD HURTS AT THIS SITUATION!

[leviathan93]

Honestly, if it is not adam then I really think it is hawk. so either way the scum cannot win, because if hawk is really pressing so hard on adam then i feel its pretty strongly he would be scum if adam isnt. regardless of which one we lynch today id say we should lynch the other one on the next night. unless im lynched today i really dont think i will be the night kill because im not confirmed town even though I claimed really early on and that will just cause a reason to lynch me in lynch or lose. and then scum would win.

[leviathan93]

ahhh!! ok. UNVOTE: VOTE: hawk I Think id rather lynch hawk first and then lynch adam the next day. either way. i want to lynch them both at this time. mantis is town. Im town. and I want to say guille is town at the moment. i hope to god he is...

[leviathan93]

UNVOTE: God DAMN! im getting really annoyed by people convincing me to change my votes. =/ and almost forcing me too, because im so fucking unsure in this situation.

[leviathan93]

the more you poke at me, the more i'm going to know you are scum. just saying. it will be an excuse on your part hawk. adams too. but i feel more for your case. i know I am a townie. i know mantis is a townie. and people are saying guille is a townie and that I am wrong about his being under the radar which is what got me to be thinking he was scummy in the first place. the majority of games i have played scum is always the ones who have played under the radar. getting people to lynch true townies who are out in the open and trying to discuss people who could be scum. the scum slips that people say happen never really happen from my experience. they have been only excuses to lynch town or players they don't like.

[leviathan93]

read the scum game all you want but it will literally show you nothing.

[leviathan93]

yes I did. and yes I did just threaten you. At this point in the game and in this situation Im betting scum is going to be trying to pull something. Especially since I know my own alignment. and to be accused specifically at this time when it would rather be possible for me to be lynched earlier in the game scum want me alive for lynch or lose so they can lynch me then. if im lynched now, then who would they kill? mantis? that would leave you, adam, and guille as the last ones. the two town people would know which one of you is truly scum in that situation. but with me there, I know where the alignment would turn. therefore unless he can avoid it scum will not be targeting me this round. so i can be lynched then. scum would poke me because it would be a great opportunity for them to do so. "why trust levia? he seems to be looking extra scummy at the moment. lets lynch him." and then another town would be gone. and put you in the exact situation we are in now. who should we trust? hawk or adam? i say we should decide that now rather then in lynch or lose. I honestly don't care which one of you goes now.

[leviathan93]

then mantis vote adam so I will just hammer him. lets not dilly dally with this anymore.

[leviathan93]

if he is not scum then lynch me in lynch or lose so we lose.

[leviathan93]

and if so then lynch me now?

[leviathan93]

id love to shove it in your face about how wrong you are.

[leviathan93]

if you aren't going to lynch me now when the time is perfect, then that leaves only three other viable options. guille who we think is town and im like "ok, fine, he can be town" and then hawk, and then adam. mantis im giving the free ness cuz she is tracker. i know two confirmed town at the moment. me and mantis. therefore scum would be in adam hawk or guille. if people think hawk's abruptness and carelessness is not scum then ok then lets just lynch adam. id rather be the hammer then wait for someone to hammer. its how i play the game.

and thanks for that nice addition majiffy. =P

[leviathan93]

BUT if both of you are town THEN IT WOULD BE GUILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[leviathan93]

that is such a correct analysis adam. =) thank you!

[leviathan93]

mantis. =P i see hawk more scummy then I see adam. if we are wrong why can't we just lynch adam tomorrow?

[leviathan93]

hawk. I wouldn't care if someone said they were going to hammer me. id basically just say prove it. and if you were going to then do!

[leviathan93]

I wouldn't necessarily go that far adam. we still have lylo. we can still pull a win there. it would be better now but that is still a possibility. if both of you are town. then its guille. thats all i have to say to that. but if its really not guille then its either one of you and i say we lynch one of you guys each of the days.

[leviathan93]

Well, if it became me, hawk, and mantis i'm sure she would realize that it was hawk was scum. if its me hawk, and guille then im sure he would realize that hawk was scum if he wasn't himself. we need guille to be back to give his say on things now.

[leviathan93]

i dont know why anyone would or would not make it to lynch or lose except me I feel so I can just be lynched there. but i can understand why she wouldnt since she is confirmed town and guille still randomly looks iffy. if it was hawk, me, and guille. the hawk would say lynch me. and we would lose. making it either hawk's stupidity as the factor that we lose and guille's cunning. or hawks pressuring and bullying tactics over guille who would or would not believe him. i say he probably would though. seeing how he has as you say manipulated his way through the game in an aggressive manner. That is why Id prefer him dead before you adam.

and theres nothing I can do to convince you im town. =P thats the point of the game. =P I claimed early on. mala hated me for it and so I believed her to be innocent because of it. if you guys really had a problem with me then you would have lynched me already. probably before bork even. hell, I would have lynched me before bork if I were you guys. I think because I made it this far I am believed to be town. which I AM. but i believe scum is leaving me to the end so i can be the lynch or lose and guarantee them victory.

[leviathan93]

Here is what bugs me about Guille:

I don't like how he brought up the whole Angel-night-kill thing. This makes me think he is scum trying to get everyone to think that he had no clue. It worked with Mantis. Other problem, he has been pretty much chilling out this whole game except for this game day. Now he is some kind of crusader who wants to make sure we maximize before LYLO. It smells like he is trying to make sure he looks super town going into tomorrow.

the last sentence is exactly my concern and something he has done all game...

[leviathan93]

BUT if both of you are town THEN IT WOULD BE GUILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's not guille!

and how are you so sure on that mantis? do you think its hawk? if we lynch adam and its not adam then who will you think is scum? because I promise you that its not me.

[leviathan93]

and ok then. but i am saying to you what if you are wrong? what is your back up plan and how will you deal with lynch or lose? if this is not necessary and it is adam then YAY!! but if he is town what then?

[leviathan93]

even though you will most likely die during the night if adam is town.

[leviathan93]

and what is that plan B hawk? I think we should all be completely honest with exactly how we will play today and lynch or lose so it all goes very quickly. we know the possibilities already.

1. If adam is town and we lynch him then we still will have scum and mantis is the most likely one to die during the night. So that will make it hawk, levi, and guille. I am town. so the scum can only be hawk or guille. because you so adamantly think yourself town and i don't know if you are you will vote either me or guille. im thinking probably guille right now because honestly a lynch of me will end in town losing. if guille is really town and you are scum hawk then it wouldnt matter to you which one of us was lynched and the other of us will probably go with you. if you are town and guille is scum the he will probably vote you and I would sure as hell vote you and scum would win as well. that is why i would be caught in the middle of who was scum or not and be the deciding factor which i don't really know who I would choose. this is all thoughts if adam is town.

2. if we lynch hawk, and he is scum then we win. if he is town then adam is still in with me and guille. Again. I want everyones second back up plan and thoughts on the matter if they get to lynch or lose. adam will vote for guille if hawk is innocent. because he says I am innocent which I am. however, this COULD be a ploy to make it sure to say guille is guilty is hawk isn't and still keeping the noose from his own neck and I would have to believe him because I would always choose guille over adam. however, because im thinking like this I would really need to know that guille was town so we could just lynch adam and have a win for town. if guille turned out to be scum i basically told y'all so and would be frustrated as hell.

this being said. WE NEED EVERYONES BACK UP PLANS STATED! and if they lie and change it then we know who the true scum is. partially. scum will have to figure out a back up plan to that they can follow and still ensure a victory for themselves.

[leviathan93]

well, regardless if it shows they are scum or not we STILL should have everyones back up plans. hiding things now is NOT going to help us and I honestly think at this point makes someone look very scummy.

[leviathan93]

if you have nothing to hide then there is no reason why you shouldnt just tell the truth. its not like you have a plan that will ensure victory for town if you are one at this point. its fairly obvious what needs to happen. I agree that others need to make their statements. because im not voting anyone until everyone does. so unless you all vote me or all vote someone else you will not have my vote.

[leviathan93]

It wouldn't be the factor that causes them to be lynched if they change it. there would need to be others factors too. but if anything looks fishy then i think scumminess may be a foot. the reason I think its guille is because both of you are headlocked into each other and think the other is scum. that means either one of two things. THAT you are both innocent! and someone ELSE is scummy. or that one of you is scummy. i don't know which that is. I see hawk being more scummy then adam is and so I think its between hawk or guille. currently I think hawk. if thats not the case its adam or guille and that is a weird situation for me.

[leviathan93]

because if guille is confirmed innocent to everyone but me it would be a waste of my vote to vote him. i can still think he is scum but i don't know for sure and it is just a really good hunch at the moment. if people will only vote between adam and hawk right now then one of them has to be lynched. I agree with this but I prefer hawk being lynched to adam being lynched. this time is confusing me, because im wondering if guille is just playing us a little bit. if we confirm him town then both adam and hawk HAVE to be lynched eventually because i KNOW im not scum. i would just feel really bugged if scum turned out to be guille and we lynched both adam and hawk.

[leviathan93]

is the bold really all you got from that post? do you not read the last sentence?

[leviathan93]

and i see that as going two ways. yes, I agree with you that it could make him town, but how I also see it as him pulling a possible bluff and not thinking that I would hammer. or vote his partner and then it getting shoved in his face. something he didn't expect. i have seen that before. and I would pull that maneuver. seeing how much people actually mean what they say. I pulled it as town and got lynched and I threw it in their faces. =) it was nice. =)

[leviathan93]

also why would it have made me look scummy to refuse to hammer bork? i normally would have refused because i don't like being pressured to make my own decisions based on what other people tell me. I didn't refuse this time only because at least mala wasn't being the one lynched. i had no idea that bork was scum. honestly thought otherwise since I already pegged him as a lurker in the beginning and thought that he couldn't be scum because of it.

[leviathan93]

mantis. =P i see hawk more scummy then I see adam. if we are wrong why can't we just lynch adam tomorrow?

...because what if they are both town.

THATS WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!!!!!! DO YOU READ!???????????!!?!??!?!

[leviathan93]

(and levi if you are town, bear with me hear, i'm just thinking out loud)


But- throughout the game, Levi has very often brought up the fact that he claimed town early, and that he's town. I'm beginning to get a bit paranoid that he is doing this to try to overcompensate in convincing us.

you have found me out. i guess i should stop. oh no. please lynch me. ITS BECAUSE IM GETTING SO GOD DAMN FRUSTRATED WITH THIS GAME!!! actually its because i got frustrated with the last game i just lost as town for people being stupid. and its carrying over into this one. =/

[leviathan93]

The reason im changing up is because no vote is going to happen and I WANT one to happen! I HAVE suspicions on Guille! THAT has never changed. but the last 3 players in this game think he is innocent! so what am I to do? theres nothing I can do to convince you of the fact that he is NOT town apparently. that leaves possible scum as me, adam and hawk, because everyone agrees that YOU are town. because you are the tracker. MY frustration is the fact that YOU are believed and I AM NOT when I wanted to make this game easier on people by claiming early! however, that has only worked against me because scum is using it to their advantage at the moment because only THEY know i am ACTUALLY town. VANILLA TOWN. nothing special. therefore to me scum is in THREE possible. adam, hawk, or guille. I say "what about guille" you guys say NO! so that leaves TWO left. adam or hawk! yet all of you are just randomly arguing and what not saying "what if adam and hawk aren't scum?" THEN IT WOULD BE FUCKING GUILLE!!!!!!! DUH! easy as that! but since that isn't happening i say we just have to lynch BOTH adam and hawk to find out the truth! if neither of them are scum then I Can just say I TOLD YOU SO! even though we would lose.

[leviathan93]

It seems that I had used the wrong calendar to set my VLA, I am VLA till the 7th not the 10th. Still VLA so, just a quicky note. I am taking a stance on hawk being town. I consider Adam more town than Levi, so I would prefer a lynch Levi.

wow...that is so scummy to me. oh well. LETS LYNCH ME THEN SO WE CAN FINALLY FIND OUT THE TRUTH!

[leviathan93]

From what I have read, Levi, you have said everything while saying nothing all at the same time. Quite a feat.

its because literally there is nothing I can do to convince y'all of anything anyway. it literally seems y'all have made up your mind. I am just waiting for the votes to come in so I can be the one to hammer and push the day forward. if im the lynch just lynch me now. theres nothing to think about. with guille, adam, and hawk left. what will happen I wonder.

[leviathan93]

yeah but anyone can claim vanilla town.. there's nothing to prove that they are or aren't... except get an idea and judge them based on their actions.

true, but I thought because it hadn't really been done before commonly I was hoping to be trusted this entire game as town so it would be easier and it would just show that the people who truly thought that I shouldn't be town would be scum and therefore they would always try to get me lynched playing the "you can't trust him card". therefore it would be seemingly obvious to me. mala was pissed at the move however, said it was anti-town and that is why it confirmed her town for me. which she WAS i might add.

[leviathan93]

good. fine. consider what you want. =P you are the only one seeming actual town to me at the moment because of it. =P but I would like you to take that farther because I actually really like the thinking. my thinking is this. the reason I want peoples plans out is because it would be helpful to go back too.

if hawk is scum this would be his best bet would DEFINITELY be to kill adam today. that way mantis would be killed during the night and left with me, hawk, and guille. they both would vote me, because guille sees hawk as town and therefore hawk wins. Definitely easy win for him.

If adam is scum then his best vote would be to kill hawk or me. If he killed hawk if would be mantis dead during the night. and me, adam, and guille alive. guille would pick me, because he seems me more scummy then adam is, therefore he would lynch me and adam would win. if adam lynched me instead of hawk today, then mantis would die and it would be adam hawk, and guille left. which guille would kill adam because he believes him more scummy then hawk and adam would lose. and town win. therefore he would rather kill hawk today then kill me.

if guille is scum then if his vote was to kill me today, it would leave adam and hawk and guille to tomorrow because mantis would die during the night. adam and hawk would vote each other because they don't think guille is scum and guille would choose either one to hammer and have an easy win. if guille wants adam dead it would be hawk, me, and guille and they would both kill me and guille would win. if hawk was dead then it would be me, adam, and guille and that would be the only possibility that could save town as adam might vote guille and i might vote guille to win. but if he votes me and adam votes me then im lynched and guille wins.

my analysis shows that if guille is scum he will most likely win.

[leviathan93]

no. my analysis says that guille has the easiest chance of winning if he is scum. if he isn't then I don't know what the best decision would be. because that would make it either you or adam needs to be lynched. the only reason I say lynch guille is cuz i think he is more scummy then either of you are.

[leviathan93]

not mantis! i don't want to lynch mantis! but that doesn't say much. since everyone thinks she is town. =P but how I want to lynch is this. Guille > hawk > adam.