Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

[Majiffy]

Vote Count

ArcAngel9 (L-3): Adam-12
Mantisdreamz (L-3): ArcAngel9
Thor665 (L-2): ProHawk, Mantisdreamz
Guile (L-2): Thor665, Leviathan93

Not Voting: - Guile

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is Thursday, January 10th, 2013 at 5:30 PM EST

[leviathan93]

you forgot me majiffy...i'm on guille...

[leviathan93]

and guille isn't voting himself..,

[Majiffy]

Shaddup.

[Malakittens]

NOU.

Mew.

(That's mah "mew" post)

[Majiffy]

I feel like there's an impending usurpation in the works.

[guille2015]

Ok lets take a look at last night. I know Hawk went through it, but I gave it some thought when night came upon so I want to go through that, with influence of what I have read so far today.

Malakittens (L-2): Thor665, Borkjerfkin, ProHawk
Borkjerfkin (L-0): Mantisdreamz, Malakittens, Adam-12, Guile, Leviathan93
Mantis (L-4): ArcAngel9

Mantis is confirmed town because no one counterclaimed, as much as Angel wants to convince us other wise. Mantis you know what your purpose is now right?

I find this a game in which not many people will bus. But it also Depends on the timing. Additionally, Bork was the only scum that could have killed Mantis unimpeded. Lynching Mala was the smart thing to do.

Prohawk: He pushed for Mala over bork. That is suspect. It is outweighed by my town read on him and his acceptance to be included into the suspicious side is town motivated. I think that out of the most suspicious bunch, he is the more likely candidate to being town. On top of that, He pressured the hammer with the implied consequences that Brok was the hammer.

Adam: Is town, I've said it day 1 and I'll say it again. Even If I where mistaken he could have placed his vote on Mala if he was scum. If he was scum he was in the Ideal position to vote for Mala without being suspicious, likely angel would have eventually hammered Mala and taken the blame on day 2. Absolutely Town.

I'm not going to talk about myself, I'll let you guys do that without my influence. It should be fun to watch.

Levi: Tough tough call. He did hammer Scum, but him going after Mala would have been convenient if he was scum. He was pressured by hawk to Hammer, which removes his mental motivation for voting Bork. He's been saying that Mala is innocent for the entire time, so he would have been suspect #1 if he had voted Mala instead of hammering Brok. I am not inclined to lynch him today.

Angel: Shrimp was committing town-slips, and so is she. For some reason she missed the hammer, and went ahead and voted for Mala. At the time Mala was L-2 and Bork L-1 from here perspective. Her vote was intended to Equate the two wagons, very close to deadline. This is enough for me to Lynch her. If it weren't for the Freaking Town-slips! She insists that there are two scum left when this game clearly has only 2 scum. She is also going after mantis, which as scum she would have benefited with accepting her conf. Town status. Looking suspicious like she is now is not a particularly wise thing to do if scum. Scum would know that mantis is town and that there are only 2 scum. Since she replaced in, she might not have read the OP clearly, which would make this understandable for a town player than for a scum player. There is a possibility that she could be faking the scum slip, I don't think there are many people that can pull this off correctly though.

Thor: Hard to read fellow. His slot was the main suspicion on Day 1 and was almost a lynch. He played well his entry into the game and that afforded him this leave. However, he pushed for Mala's lynch and was absent during the critical points in the game. I think that if he were scum, he would have been in the game during the last ours and could have easily manipulated the Lynch to go to Mala. This just means that his VLA was indeed real and thus null. He is somewhat consistent with Bork being town, but never really explains why that is. His only real interaction with bork is 1093. Then goes off and says that

"Though, with Bork, i'll admit he falls into the Levi/Bork/Mantis gorup - of wich I suspect one is scum since I do believe they're the only players who indicated they expected me to flip as town when I was close to lynch. As such, one is probably scum looking for some towncred after the fact."

in post 1426. This is something I can imaging scum saying. Place your scum buddy along with other town so that in the event of him getting lynch, the others would have a link. It also protects them if he(thor) gets lynched. He makes a townslip with his Mantis needs to say who she followed posts. However, this could have also been contrived, like Angel's town slip, except that this one is easier to pull off.

@

Everyone

: If Levi where scum, was it the right decision for him to Lynch Bork rather than voting for Mala?

TL;DR: Mantis and Adam are town. Prohawk is likely town. Levi could be scum but I don't think he is someone to hammer like he did if he were scum, can wait for later. Angel has town-slips all over. I don't understand her scum motivation so I am inclined to think that she is town, wrong but town. Thor is clearly by far the most experienced player in the game. The argument I placed above links him to bork. His "slip" happened in the span of three minutes, which makes me wonder. I've seen good players slip like this, so it is not clear cut.

That said my highest suspicions run in Thor, Angel and Levi. Highest on Thor and interchangeable on the last two.

Vote Thor

[Thor665]

I pretty much defended Bork to the end, calling for people to lynch Mala-town. Scum had me practically doing all of the dirty work for them.
So...

You did, and if I thought scum was off the wagon I'd vote you.
I don't.

Why would the remaining scum, when Mala was the lead wagon, give momentum to the Bork-Wagon (Adam)?

I don't think they would, that's why I didn't even list Adam as a suspect today,

Why would the scum put the Bork-Scum wagon in the lead when he could have easily put Mala-town in the lead (Guille)?

They could have put Mala-town into a tie situation, not into the lead. Also, considering the flow of votes at that point a Mala vote would not have been looked at kindly, also it was the obvious last chance to bus with any town cred to really be had.

Why would scum hammer Bork-scum when he could have voted Mala-town to tie up both wagons and potentially stall the game into a no-lynch (Levi)?

I'll spare you my personal theory of hammer flipper alignments - but considering what Levi had been saying about Mala his option was either to not post, or to do what he did. It's silly to suggest otherwise.

Your predecessor was acting like scum before she replaced out most likely because your slot is scum. You are obviously a well seasoned mafia-man which is why you wiggled out of the lynch D1, but I feel like the evidence against you is overwhelming in this case.

The evidence against me remains nonsensical for the most part and I've explicitly explained why that is. People keep bringing me up as a lynch option because either they dn't understand that to be true, or they're too tunneled to give up the wagon.

[Thor665]

Malakittens (L-2):

Thor665, Borkjerfkin

, ProHawk

Tell me again how Bork was my buddy and how we lived in trembling fear of Mala's scumhunting prowess?

[guille2015]

Malakittens (L-2):

Thor665, Borkjerfkin

, ProHawk

Tell me again how Bork was my buddy and how we lived in trembling fear of Mala's scumhunting prowess?

She wasn't an easy lynch. She had several players calling her town. I count 4. If mafia wanted to get her lynched they'd have to team up to do it. However, that is irrelevant. You are perfectly aware that this is a common occurrence and WIFOM. I think scum try to avoid this type of situation, but sometimes it can't be avoided, and sometimes it doesn't matter. Bork suspected Mala before you came in. In the meantime your slot had Mala as town. When you came in you considered mala #2 so your vote for her is acceptable. Bork's vote was pretty much forced when Mantis claimed. Before that he voted Mala to comply with Prohawks L-1 Experiment, and before that, he had made his intentions cleared that he could be convinced to vote for Mala.

Also, why do you think that I would assume that you both (as scum) will vote for Mala for her scum hunting abilities?

[ProHawk]

^This.

You are missing the big picture by taking this count out of context. You missed the part where you vote-parked and wouldn't move because you were V/LA, and how Bork was vote hopping from Mala, to Mantis, then back to Mala independent of you. I don't see that as living in trembling fear of Mala or as buddying with you.

[ProHawk]

They could have put Mala-town into a tie situation, not into the lead. Also, considering the flow of votes at that point a Mala vote would not have been looked at kindly, also it was the obvious last chance to bus with any town cred to really be had.

Thor, you are just wrong on this. Before Guille voted, Mala was at L-2, and Bork was at L-2. Hence, if Guille were scum, he could have voted Mala and put her at L-1 and she would have been the leading wagon. Don't forget that Adam had already mentioned that both Bork and Mala were scum reads for him, so placing Mala at L-1 would have been way more advantageous than voting for his scum-buddy because it would have made it another vote more difficult to lynch Bork. The way things went down were actually worse-case-scenario for scum because it literally setup scum in a trap.

[Thor665]

She wasn't an easy lynch. She had several players calling her town. I count 4. If mafia wanted to get her lynched they'd have to team up to do it.

However, that is irrelevant. You are perfectly aware that this is a common occurrence and WIFOM.

It actually isn't that common.
Especially in two scum setups.

Also, why do you think that I would assume that you both (as scum) will vote for Mala for her scum hunting abilities?

Well, you admit she wasn't an easy lynch, yet both scum went and drove for her rather hard. I dunno - what was the reason we did that?

You are missing the big picture by taking this count out of context. You missed the part where you vote-parked and wouldn't move because you were V/LA, and how Bork was vote hopping from Mala, to Mantis, then back to Mala independent of you. I don't see that as living in trembling fear of Mala or as buddying with you.

You did look at his other wagon option right?
Also known as me - y'know, his "scumbuddy" who he has expressed vague suspicion on for a while and now he's going down in flames?
Uh huh...

[Thor665]

Thor, you are just wrong on this. Before Guille voted, Mala was at L-2, and Bork was at L-2.

You are correct.

Unvore: Guille
Vote: Leviathan

[Adam-12]

Malakittens (L-2):

Thor665, Borkjerfkin

, ProHawk

Tell me again how Bork was my buddy and how we lived in trembling fear of Mala's scumhunting prowess?

If I am right, this wagon analysis was AFTER the change back from Mantis. So its not actually back to back scum here; its just the way it worked out after the Mantis wagon.

[Adam-12]

Umm, just want to point out that Thor is at L-1. No quick hammers here people!

[leviathan93]

Thor, you are just wrong on this. Before Guille voted, Mala was at L-2, and Bork was at L-2.

You are correct.

Unvore: Guille
Vote: Leviathan

lol. definitely don't understand the vote switch. =P but ok. i feel that came out of nowhere. unless its your gut i don't really understand.

[leviathan93]

also if guille is innocent. my next vote would be on you thor. and i have no problem with hammering that. just so everyone is clear about that. i'm still just not necessarily clear on guille's innocence yet.

[Adam-12]

Ok Levi, please understand that its important that you are clear when you talk about hammering. From what I read you are saying, "I don't mind hammering but I am not sure I am going to yet either", correct?

[Adam-12]

As for myself I would like to clear up Angel's position in this game and am not ready to end the day until that happens.

[leviathan93]

i am clear adam. my sights are on guille. i think he is more scummy then thor is at the moment. if there is anytime where I think guille may actually be innocent. then my next person is thor. i will not just hammer him. I will announce that I am unvoting guille and that i will be ready to hammer thor when everyone has a chance to put in their final thoughts on the matter. its the beginning of the day still. of course i'm not going to hammer yet.

[Thor665]

lol. definitely don't understand the vote switch. =P but ok. i feel that came out of nowhere. unless its your gut i don't really understand.

I was incorrect in my thoughts on Guille which makes him look less suspect - that leaves you as the, by a solid margin, strongest scum read on the wagon yesterday.
I think you bussed for town points.
Hence - voting you.

[ArcAngel9]

Thor, you are just wrong on this. Before Guille voted, Mala was at L-2, and Bork was at L-2.

You are correct.

Unvore: Guille
Vote: Leviathan

This is surprising. After such long post, I thought you did all the thinking part.
What changed your mind?

[Thor665]

Read m0ar.

[ArcAngel9]

As for myself I would like to clear up Angel's position in this game and am not ready to end the day until that happens.

Why do you think i am scum?
If you're a townie then should find a way to see me as town because i am townie. Too bad if you dont!!