Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)


User avatar
Mantisdreamz
Mantisdreamz
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Mantisdreamz
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4278
Joined: October 29, 2012
Location: Montreal, QC

Post Post #1900 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:44 pm

Post by Mantisdreamz »

In post 1897, ProHawk wrote:Yes, but compare his pushing type of posts to when during the day they were. No hard pushes at the end of the day when a lynch would actually occur. Any scum would know that they can push hard anytime during the day without their push turning into a lynch because the lynch wont happen until closer to the deadline. If it does, they can attack the foolish townie who hammered early. This is especially evident in games with long day phases such as this one.

what about guille though?

(i don't really believe that strongly that he is actually scum), but i'm wondering why you've brought up Adam and Levi before him. i'm sorry if i missed if you've said this eariler). and if, you having him as town, as to do with vote placing on the scum wagon, i don't really think (myself) that that's a good reason to have him as town.

Vote Count


ProHawk (L-2): Adam-12
Guile (L-2): Leviathan93
Adam-12 (L-2): ProHawk

Not Voting: - Mantisdreamz, Guile

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day Three has begun. Deadline is Thursday, Jan 17th (I think?) at 3:00 PM EST
Last edited by Majiffy on Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Adam-12
Adam-12
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Adam-12
Goon
Goon
Posts: 770
Joined: October 23, 2012

Post Post #1901 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:45 pm

Post by Adam-12 »

I just don't see it. Why would he out of the blue do that when Mala was an easy L-1 and there was no sign of anyone really wanting to hammer Bork. He could of easily even lurked through the rest of the day since he posts infrequently and left his vote on Levi even.
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1902 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:52 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

I agree with the lynching your partner for the win and guarantee until the end. i also see why it would make sense for scum to leave me until the end because they think if it got to lynch or lose i would be the obvious target. and they would win. and by lurking I think that would have been a more obvious scum tell then busing your partner for town cred. the more talking that is going on the more i'm getting a bad feeling. hawk is looking more and more town. and adam is protecting guille. adam is town. but prohawk thinks that is false. even though i see it as an obvious. leaving out mantis in all this now its like 3 can be scum. adam, hawk, and guille. I still believe its guille. he had played under the radar and thats what I see as possibly scummy. adam nor hawk have played under the radar. they have played above the radar and both seem town to me. i don't like guille's under the radarness. bork played under the radar for me and he was scum. in other games i see the same thing.
User avatar
Adam-12
Adam-12
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Adam-12
Goon
Goon
Posts: 770
Joined: October 23, 2012

Post Post #1903 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:56 pm

Post by Adam-12 »

I see your point and Guille is definitely a utr player but you are saying he deliberately bussed his opponent when there was no need to and put him at L-1? I don't see how that makes sense when he already had a vote on you and could of lurked the rest of the day away or at least even voted Mala.
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1904 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:02 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

maybe it wasn't necessarily deliberate. it could be planned, i don't know. i haven't played scum that much. but I do see that lynching your own partner gives you major town points and cred. I mean come on, if that is the case then its working because of how much you are defending him. if not, then I don't really know. it would be between you and hawk for me if he wasn't but I really think i'm spot on. because both you seem above the radar town players to me at the moment and the huge outlier of the situation would be mantis lying as tracker, but since we have seen so many people die and turn up no tracker then i am really inclined to believe her.
User avatar
Adam-12
Adam-12
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Adam-12
Goon
Goon
Posts: 770
Joined: October 23, 2012

Post Post #1905 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:23 pm

Post by Adam-12 »

For me to lynch Guille I would literally have to be saying that he deliberately put his scum partner at L-1 when he had other, easier options that wouldn't have resulted in the lynching of his partner. I don't see how he needed town cred that bad. He didn't seem desperate at all to me. He had been playing a slow well thought out game and was under no real suspicion.
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1906 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:28 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

why wouldn't you want to confirm it for later if you were scum? i don't know. a person doesn't need to be desperate to solidify the game for themself and their partner. and slow well thought out game IS not what a townsperson does really. they could care less as long as they find out who scum is.
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1907 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:29 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

but I do want guille to come back and hear what he has to say.
User avatar
ProHawk
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6211
Joined: July 26, 2012

Post Post #1908 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:02 pm

Post by ProHawk »

Mantis, Adam is pretty much rehashing my argument I made D2 about why Guille is town on my read. If you and your scum partner could live past D2 why wouldn't you go that route? Bussing/lynching your partner is not a free pass to the end game.
User avatar
Adam-12
Adam-12
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Adam-12
Goon
Goon
Posts: 770
Joined: October 23, 2012

Post Post #1909 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:16 pm

Post by Adam-12 »

Exactly my point which is why I believe Guille is town.
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1910 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:21 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

then HELL! I am scum then! if guille isn't. =/ if guille is not scum then my vote goes on you hawk.
User avatar
ProHawk
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6211
Joined: July 26, 2012

Post Post #1911 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:33 pm

Post by ProHawk »

So you are willing to let Adam win, just because you think he has played an outstanding game?
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1912 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:38 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

that has nothing to do with it! its literally beyond my understand that he could be scum unless its an outlier. it has nothing to do with outstanding game or not. i see him as being town. i still see guille as not being town. like I did with mala and bork. Id rather see guille lynched then adam.
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1913 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:47 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

if guille is town that would make adam or hawk scum. and thats a huge battle that makes me completely "aldjlaksdjlksjdflkjsdlfj" i have been in that situation before and I chose wrong and am not really keen on that being what it is. i'm waiting for guille to come back.
User avatar
ProHawk
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6211
Joined: July 26, 2012

Post Post #1914 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:48 pm

Post by ProHawk »

Ok, so while I was doing some research into where Adam disappeared to during his hiatus, I was disappointed to see that he didn't have any other games that I could cross-reference with activity, what I did find, however was intriguing.

The title is: How to Win as Mafia: Calculated Inaction.

In post 0, Lord Gurgi wrote:So you've started a game. You say your role is mafia? Well congratulations, you probably just won. But here's a guide to help you win more easily. Always keep in mind, that playing as mafia is a game of waiting. Wait long enough, and the town will kill itself.

  1. Do not call the strongest members of the town scum, rather pick on weaker but more neutral figures. If you pick on people that are too easy, you will eventually run out of valid scumreads, and if you only pick on the strongest members of the town, it will likely turn on you. Attack the people that can't defend themselves. Newbies are a good choice.


    Adam's Scum Claims:

    Shrimp (#107)
    Code, Guille, Mantis (#173) ((Post #230 removes Mantis from Scum))
    Mollie (#309)
    Bork (#512)
    Mala (#1249)

    Adam's main scum pushes D1 were Shrimp, Guille, and Mollie. Bork was a quick push with little scum-hunting, and Mala wasn't really a push. I will let you all decide who were the strongest and weakest contenders, but Shrimp was new, Guille wasn't a heavy poster (neutral) and Mollie was flailing.


  2. Early on, post a lot, and frequently. Most people will subconsciously treat active players as town. Almost nobody will suspect you for this on its own.

    D1
    - 21 Days
    Posts D1 - 0-461 - 461 Posts
    Posts/Day1 - 21 posts/day

    D2
    - 6 Days
    Posts D2 - 461-485 - 25 Posts
    Posts/Day2 - 4 posts/day


    Because we didn't have nearly the same amount of time D2 as D1, I wanted to make a post/day comparison. I have never seen anyone post as much as Adam. He definately doesn't have the same vigor he did D1.


  3. Call out lurkers. They are easy to lynch, but don't try to lynch them until later in the game. Their wagon will provide good escape later if you need it. Be sure to make this a long-term campaign. If you notice the flow go against your allies or your scum-calls begin to push the lurkers.



    First major post of calling out lurkers is #173, with small jabs at them later on.



  4. Outline rough suspicion of your dumbest partner. Do not push their wagon, just list them as neutral-leaning-scum or something to that effect. Meanwhile, defend your other partner from significant attacks. This will separate your team in the minds of the town.


    Outlined Rough Suspicion and proceeded to pressure others. His vote for Bork Starts in Post #511, and is maintained until his next vote for Mollie in #798. His pressuring of Bork stops in Post #552, he didn't push the wagon, just let the vote sit.

    He didn't have another partner, so it doesn't apply.


  5. Defend the strongest players of the town. Pick one in particular to defend excessively. If you die, this will tie you to them and allow your team to lynch them quickly. As a note, generally, if you build a meta for defending people you will do well in all your games.


    Adam made more than one post defending me, I would even say excessively. I am sure you remember, but if you don't I would be happy to quote them for you.


  6. For lynch on the first day, push the second or third most popular lynch. Do not try to make your wagon fail, but hope that it does. After that, continue to push reads that are less likely to be lynched. If one of your reads becomes a major lynch though, lynch them. Do not back down.


    Adam's vote on Bork strikes me as a strong indicator of this play. Bork was the second most popular lynch.


  7. If you notice someone acting scummy, and no one else has yet picked up on it, take the opportunity. If you lynch an unexpected person the next day reverts to earlier lynch prospects much of the time. Essentially the town loses a day.


    Adam's push on Angel, despite saying that he believed Shrimps town-slip fits nicely into this category.


  8. Taper off your posting as you go. Do not suddenly disappear, just gradually reduce your rate of posting. Try to keep large but infrequent posts at first, but later shorter posts will do. You want to appear like you are losing interest in the game. You also want to have an excuse for dodging the nightkills. Living too long being too town will be problematic.


    Notice the posting frequency at the start of the game to now.


  9. Attack players that do not know how to defend themselves properly. Start with a case that is factual, but weak. When the player overreacts and digs themselves deeper and deeper, you will have a good wagon to sit on. If it sees lynch, you have lynched someone that everyone agrees deserved it, and if it doesn't you have a plausible distraction from the main lynches.


    Mollie wasn't on Adam's push-agenda until he saw how much she was able to dig herself deeper and deeper.


  10. Don't underestimate the power of subtle praise. "That's a great point" and "I didn't notice that" or even "I'm sheeping X, who is obv-town" helps building false confidence in townies. This will make the townie think you are town, and if they turn out to be wrong they get the blame and their confidence is shaken. It is generally good to leave the responsibility for the town's lynches on the town.


    Adam was full of praise for me D1. My Favorite - Lifetime Subscription


  11. The town tends to believe that it ought to win. They are wrong, but you can take advantage of this. If someone has been on many of the major wagons, you have just found a free lynch target. Similarly, if there is someone that seems to be causing the town not to succeed, they are a good target. Generally, the mafia should be encouraging the idea that the town is being conned by their leaders.



Notes are in green, I edited out the topics that weren't relevant to Adam's play. Feel free to read the whole post if you wish.

As I said before, I have it on good authority that he as used this post as research. The evidence in this game is more than coincidence that he is putting the advice to use. So did he use this research as scum or to find scum? The fact that he has incorporated 11 of the suggestions into his play here leads me to believe that he used it as scum in order to play an amazing scum-game.
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1915 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:00 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

fuck dude....its so true....
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1916 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:00 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

adam is too perfect.
User avatar
leviathan93
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
leviathan93
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2297
Joined: November 14, 2012

Post Post #1917 (ISO) » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:01 pm

Post by leviathan93 »

its the same situation i was in, only its not lynch or lose. currently leaning to agree with hawk about adam. IF guille is not scum that is. i want him back.
User avatar
guille2015
guille2015
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
guille2015
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2896
Joined: April 17, 2012
Location: DR

Post Post #1918 (ISO) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:41 am

Post by guille2015 »

I'm here. Patience.

Man, I totally thought Thor was scum. And with Angel dead that completely scratches my plans. Here is the problem. I originally had a Lynch on Thor, Levi and Angel. By reason I should lynch Levi. But there is a reason I voted for Thor over Levi, and its primarily because of his hammer on Bork.

I need to review lots of things for this game though. This game has gotten a ton more complicated.

My first problem is "Why did Angel die?" Did she bread crumbed her power somewhere? Or was her kill just a way to avoid the unknown watcher.

@Mantis
did you track Angel at some point and realized she was the tracker?

So, I'm going to have to get into WIFOM territory now, My head is going to explode so it's a good thing I asked for vacation next week. Let me post this so that what I just said sinks in, while I redact the next post.
User avatar
ProHawk
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6211
Joined: July 26, 2012

Post Post #1919 (ISO) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:40 am

Post by ProHawk »

No Guille, she bread-loafed. She basically soft-claimed to Mantis.
User avatar
guille2015
guille2015
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
guille2015
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2896
Joined: April 17, 2012
Location: DR

Post Post #1920 (ISO) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:01 am

Post by guille2015 »

Ok, I'm town. (Whether you believe it or not) but I have to make that clear so that the following makes sense. When I get in this mode of typing I tend to ramble a lot and start typing anything that comes to my mind. Don't be surprised if my ideas change as I type, it's just my ideas evolving. This is my written thought process. I might need medical attention afterwards.

This sentence I write after I have written the following. It's just a heads up that the following led me to loops. My best conclusion is on the last two paragraphs, so, if you don't want to read this rambling post, at the very least read the last two paragraphs. And the following paragraphs two, they are golden. Also, I just read Prohawk's post, which dismantles what I was writing here.


We've got Mantis, Adam, Prohawk and Levi. One of them is scum. Mantis is town. Since the watcher is dead. Mantis is the best kill for tonight. So, the surviving party will consist of whoever we don't lynch of Adam, Prohawk, Guille and Levi.

I'm going to have to check yesterday's work but I need to find out who thought Angel was town. I personally thought that Scum was one of Thor, Levi and Angel. Prohawk thought it was one of Thor, Angel and himself. Correct me if I'm wrong but Adam had Hawk, Thor and Angel in his Lynch list. Levi was gunning at Guille, thor and potentially Hawk, although he was very clear that I was his go to guy, and thor was his option if I am town. This is consistent to his play today. Mantis has a Thor, Prohawk and angel. Since Thor was lynched and Angel died, i am going to ignore their scum reads for the time being, as this analysis is to see what scum thought to make his kill.

(Oh man, Adams ISO is divided in 3 pages, I've never seen that)

The big question is Angel dying. There are two possibilities given that She was in most everyone's hit list. 1) She hinted at her being the watcher, or she bread-crumbed it in some way. If she did, then she was the only option to lynch, and hope for the best. 2) She was a strategic kill. Strategic in that the watcher was not likely to watch her and other which I will go into detail next. #) It's possible that she was killed because her scum reads were quite limited. Basically just saying that Mantis was scum and then going for Thor at the end. This I take into consideration as a strategic kill. In the end there was nothing random of he kill. So I will use that as evidence. I need to ISO her for (1) but I doubt that she did. I will assume (2) and go from there.

Killing angel was a safe kill. Giving that the killer went after Mala Night 1, Mala being a safe kill. Then the motivation for killing Angel would be to stay away from the watcher. Things are improved if the killer is Adam or Hawk. Another option was killing Levi (If he is town). Angel was more in the sight of everyone than Levi. So this is confusing.

If Levi is scum. His best chance of survival was to Lynch one of Mantis, Guille, Hawk or Adam. There was a 1/4 probability of getting caught by the watcher. with a higher chance on Mantis. There was a very small chance that the watcher was targeting Angel. So killing her was a safe bet. Angel was likely a better target to lynch day 3 than himself, so risking the watcher seems like a better move. This assumes that Levi had no knowledge of Angel being the watcher. The Kill is not entirely compatible with Levi being scum. Plausible though.

If Adam is scum. Had he targeted Mantis, Guille or Hawk. His chances of being caught by the watcher were about the same as Levi's. However, Killing Levi or angel was a more strategic kill for him since they are likely not being watched. But why Angel and not Levi? He considered Levi town. He is going after Prohawk now, so I am assuming that if he is scum he expected a final clash between Levi, Him and Mantis/Hawk/me (whoever didn't claim watcher). He'd be stuck in a town-read Lylo. If I did not claim watcher and survived the day, Levi would vote for me for his Win. Had he gone for Levi, then it be Mantis/Angel/Prohawk/me and him. This seems like a better decision because, had Levi not been the watcher (from his POV not knowing), then the watcher would likely claim if it was Hawk or Angel, maybe Guille. The watcher claiming today, was a high probability. Since mantis thought that Adam was town and I was a potential scum, Mantis would have been more likely to vote for Angel/Hawk/guille than she was to vote for Adam. I notice that both situations count for him to give the vote to either Levi or Mantis. In the first scenario, if Hawk was the watcher, then the lynch would auto go to Levi, which will leave Mantis, Adam, and Me to LyLo. hrmmm. I got stuck in a loop. Ok, relax. Think like Adam:
Two options Kill Levi, or Angel. Whose the best option. everyone is opting to Lynch Angel. I am opting to Lynch Angel. If I kill Levi and Angel is the watcher, then I have to go to Prohawk because I can't vote for Guille. Samething otherwise if I kill Angel and Levi claims watcher. Regardless of who I kill, if I kill one of them and the watcher is hawk or Guille, they would likely not claim and I'd have to lynch the other option. I'm in a good position if the watcher is one of Levi and angel, and I end up killing the other.
This is compatible with last nights kill.

If Prohawk is scum. Remarkably, the thought process is pretty much the same as Adam's. It is also an indication that since they are both gunning for each other that they are attempting to keep Levi Alive. Had only one gone after the other, it would have been an indication that he was scum. But that didn't happen. Adam went first, but Hawk came with a definitive case on Adam, meaning that he had it planned ahead of time. Both had me and Levi as scum. And given that Levi will likely vote for me on LyLo, and they assumed that I would vote for Levi on LyLo. their best and only play is to Lynch Adam/Hawk depending on who is scum. It's also natural for the other to do the same as town. In the end it's a risky maneuver, because either one could get lynched. The odd one here is Levi. He knew that He was only at risk from me in this game. He could have killed me and risk getting caught by the Watcher. However, if Levi thought that I might reconsider if adam and Hawk go at eachother's throats, then maybe he could get Me Lynched. However, If he failed getting Guille Lynched, and one of hawk and Adam is lynched, then It's game over for him as he is likely the top lynch that day. So, his best bet was to Kill Guille at night rather than Angel and risk getting caught since success would mean an easier victory. No, He had no knowledge of Angel being the watcher, so Killing me would only be beneficial if angel was not the watcher and I was the watcher. If either Adam or Hawk is the watcher, then Killing Guille would be bad. 50% chance. It's also bad if Angel is the watcher and Levi kills Guille. So in the end, the best choice for Levi to Kill is Angel and hope for the best. Killing Adam and Hawk is out of the question since Guille will try convince the other to vote for Levi or angel (Because he is awesome).

Let me go around another route. Psychologically speaking. If scum did not know that Angel was the Watcher, then the kill was done to be safe from the watcher. Given that Mala was the target on night 1, then this is reaffirming that case, since Mala was the safest place to avoid a watcher. If the person is this careful, and this worried about the watcher, then busing Bork was not an intended outcome. The most compatible with this is Hawk. However, he pushed Levi to hammer Bork, which is counter intuitive. Had Prohawk and bork been both scum buddies. Then, I don't think Hawk would willingly pressure levi to Hammer. Else, he'd hammer himself and appear much better in the outset. Yeah, I think I can assume Prohawk is town.

Ok, I think I'm going to stop the ramblings. At the very least I just have to find one player out of Hawk, Adam and Levi to be town. The above was my entire thought process to get to the conclusion that I am going to pick Hawk as my top Town. Which means that I vow never to vote for him for the duration of this game. Adam is second due to him bringing up Bork's wagon for contention. I will need to confirm how that wagon appeared, but it seems that it was brought up by Mala and Mantis sheeped her. Levi is the only last option left really, and although he did hammer Bork. He was pressured to do so.
User avatar
guille2015
guille2015
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
guille2015
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2896
Joined: April 17, 2012
Location: DR

Post Post #1921 (ISO) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:05 am

Post by guille2015 »

In post 1919, ProHawk wrote:No Guille, she bread-loafed. She basically soft-claimed to Mantis.

Man, I totally wrote all that for nothing. Can you point out the soft claiming, I must have missed it. And can you tell me when did you figure it out?

My ramblings only get's me to one conclusion that prohawk is probably town. Not as certain as I was when I finished the post, because of 1919 and because Prohawk figured it out.
User avatar
guille2015
guille2015
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
guille2015
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2896
Joined: April 17, 2012
Location: DR

Post Post #1922 (ISO) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:11 am

Post by guille2015 »

In post 1914, ProHawk wrote:Ok, so while I was doing some research into where Adam disappeared to during his hiatus, I was disappointed to see that he didn't have any other games that I could cross-reference with activity, what I did find, however was intriguing.

The title is: How to Win as Mafia: Calculated Inaction.

Spoiler:
In post 0, Lord Gurgi wrote:So you've started a game. You say your role is mafia? Well congratulations, you probably just won. But here's a guide to help you win more easily. Always keep in mind, that playing as mafia is a game of waiting. Wait long enough, and the town will kill itself.

  1. Do not call the strongest members of the town scum, rather pick on weaker but more neutral figures. If you pick on people that are too easy, you will eventually run out of valid scumreads, and if you only pick on the strongest members of the town, it will likely turn on you. Attack the people that can't defend themselves. Newbies are a good choice.


    Adam's Scum Claims:

    Shrimp (#107)
    Code, Guille, Mantis (#173) ((Post #230 removes Mantis from Scum))
    Mollie (#309)
    Bork (#512)
    Mala (#1249)

    Adam's main scum pushes D1 were Shrimp, Guille, and Mollie. Bork was a quick push with little scum-hunting, and Mala wasn't really a push. I will let you all decide who were the strongest and weakest contenders, but Shrimp was new, Guille wasn't a heavy poster (neutral) and Mollie was flailing.


  2. Early on, post a lot, and frequently. Most people will subconsciously treat active players as town. Almost nobody will suspect you for this on its own.

    D1
    - 21 Days
    Posts D1 - 0-461 - 461 Posts
    Posts/Day1 - 21 posts/day

    D2
    - 6 Days
    Posts D2 - 461-485 - 25 Posts
    Posts/Day2 - 4 posts/day


    Because we didn't have nearly the same amount of time D2 as D1, I wanted to make a post/day comparison. I have never seen anyone post as much as Adam. He definately doesn't have the same vigor he did D1.


  3. Call out lurkers. They are easy to lynch, but don't try to lynch them until later in the game. Their wagon will provide good escape later if you need it. Be sure to make this a long-term campaign. If you notice the flow go against your allies or your scum-calls begin to push the lurkers.



    First major post of calling out lurkers is #173, with small jabs at them later on.



  4. Outline rough suspicion of your dumbest partner. Do not push their wagon, just list them as neutral-leaning-scum or something to that effect. Meanwhile, defend your other partner from significant attacks. This will separate your team in the minds of the town.


    Outlined Rough Suspicion and proceeded to pressure others. His vote for Bork Starts in Post #511, and is maintained until his next vote for Mollie in #798. His pressuring of Bork stops in Post #552, he didn't push the wagon, just let the vote sit.

    He didn't have another partner, so it doesn't apply.


  5. Defend the strongest players of the town. Pick one in particular to defend excessively. If you die, this will tie you to them and allow your team to lynch them quickly. As a note, generally, if you build a meta for defending people you will do well in all your games.


    Adam made more than one post defending me, I would even say excessively. I am sure you remember, but if you don't I would be happy to quote them for you.


  6. For lynch on the first day, push the second or third most popular lynch. Do not try to make your wagon fail, but hope that it does. After that, continue to push reads that are less likely to be lynched. If one of your reads becomes a major lynch though, lynch them. Do not back down.


    Adam's vote on Bork strikes me as a strong indicator of this play. Bork was the second most popular lynch.


  7. If you notice someone acting scummy, and no one else has yet picked up on it, take the opportunity. If you lynch an unexpected person the next day reverts to earlier lynch prospects much of the time. Essentially the town loses a day.


    Adam's push on Angel, despite saying that he believed Shrimps town-slip fits nicely into this category.


  8. Taper off your posting as you go. Do not suddenly disappear, just gradually reduce your rate of posting. Try to keep large but infrequent posts at first, but later shorter posts will do. You want to appear like you are losing interest in the game. You also want to have an excuse for dodging the nightkills. Living too long being too town will be problematic.


    Notice the posting frequency at the start of the game to now.


  9. Attack players that do not know how to defend themselves properly. Start with a case that is factual, but weak. When the player overreacts and digs themselves deeper and deeper, you will have a good wagon to sit on. If it sees lynch, you have lynched someone that everyone agrees deserved it, and if it doesn't you have a plausible distraction from the main lynches.


    Mollie wasn't on Adam's push-agenda until he saw how much she was able to dig herself deeper and deeper.


  10. Don't underestimate the power of subtle praise. "That's a great point" and "I didn't notice that" or even "I'm sheeping X, who is obv-town" helps building false confidence in townies. This will make the townie think you are town, and if they turn out to be wrong they get the blame and their confidence is shaken. It is generally good to leave the responsibility for the town's lynches on the town.


    Adam was full of praise for me D1. My Favorite - Lifetime Subscription


  11. The town tends to believe that it ought to win. They are wrong, but you can take advantage of this. If someone has been on many of the major wagons, you have just found a free lynch target. Similarly, if there is someone that seems to be causing the town not to succeed, they are a good target. Generally, the mafia should be encouraging the idea that the town is being conned by their leaders.



Notes are in green, I edited out the topics that weren't relevant to Adam's play. Feel free to read the whole post if you wish.

As I said before, I have it on good authority that he as used this post as research. The evidence in this game is more than coincidence that he is putting the advice to use. So did he use this research as scum or to find scum? The fact that he has incorporated 11 of the suggestions into his play here leads me to believe that he used it as scum in order to play an amazing scum-game.

This is interesting, but I am worried. I'll let Adam respond first, before I comment on this.
User avatar
ProHawk
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ProHawk
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6211
Joined: July 26, 2012

Post Post #1923 (ISO) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:29 am

Post by ProHawk »

Because I had written her off as town, I was basically ignoring her posts the entire day as they were pretty illogical and somewhat difficult to follow so I was just as confused as you were as to why she died. My only conclusion I could come up with was that she hinted at her role. I had to ISO her to find it out, and yeah it was there in pain sight. Thor was the first one to point it out (stupid of him IMO) and Mantis continued to quote the post in response. Adam voted her despite the reveal.

In post 1739, ArcAngel9 wrote:Sorry for the double post.. i honestly don't know how that was happened.

Mantis, I am open to consider if you can actually tell me why i should believe you
In what way you're the Tracker and confirmed townie. If you tell me that then i ll hint something about me. Its an exciting news for you.


^ Here is the first post. I would consider this a crumb... kinda. And next is the winner.

In post 1745, ArcAngel9 wrote:
Why would you think that there is only one more scum, I was hoping there are at least two scums.
about Guille, Thor and Prohawk. I will need to re-look at them, and this time i won't be rushing but let my vote stay on you though i believe you for now.
And about Adam, I am tired of his questions. He just doesn't stop. that's no good

And about me. I thought you would have guessed already.
Anyways i am one of those people in town you were looking for.


Its a freaking bright red-target she painted on her back, completely unnecessary. I figured it out at the beginning of the game-day as I was looking for why.
User avatar
Majiffy
Majiffy
Go with the Flow
User avatar
User avatar
Majiffy
Go with the Flow
Go with the Flow
Posts: 23825
Joined: November 23, 2011
Location: Memphis, TN

Post Post #1924 (ISO) » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:37 am

Post by Majiffy »

In post 1923, ProHawk wrote:Its a freaking bright red-target she painted on her back

Tat-tat-tat-tatted on her back?
Only playing in games at personal moderator and/or 50%+ playerlist request.


How To Win Every Game At Mafiascum (The Flowchart)
||
In case anyone was unsure...
Svenskt Stål (23:38) majiffy, worst mod on ms? we talk to a surviving victim of his game

Return to “Completed Open Games”