Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[sekinj]

Hey guys! I replace Plonky

[sekinj]

Hey guys, I'm glad not all 19 pages are in poetry. I am reading through and trying to find connections/reactions given yesterday's lynch and the claimed night info.

[sekinj]

First of all, I hate Spring's attitude. I know she's going to post a one liner to let me know she doesn't care what I think, but she is the closest thing we have to a confirmed townie, plus she has night information. Isn't her job as doctor to help the town during the day as well as a protect at night?

I don't completely trust dj's claim simply because the links with budja day one are strong, and as rc mentioned, his claim is an easy one. however, his confusion about the results does have a lot of sincerity it in.

my top suspects:
Jebus
DO
fhq

[sekinj]

What I think of fhq:

Crap. I totally misread Budja. I really thought he was town.

I don't think a scumbuddy would have said this after the scumclaim/lynch. I think they would have been more concerned about trying to jump on the lynch midstream. After the fact hey would be concerned about fading into the background rather thahn pointing out their own mistake with this comment. This is why he is low on my list although his early posts seemed suspicious.

[sekinj]

No comment to sekinj's response, it was exactly what I expected.

and comments like this is why jebus is at the top of my list. along with all of his fleeting thoughts and feelings that have nothing to back them up, he just wants to mention them to be sure to muddy the waters.

[sekinj]

Also, somehow the thought of a Lynx + Fhq scumteam popped into my head. Nothing to back that up, really, but it makes me wonder.

but DO is off the charts with starting an uncounterclaimed-doc-who-may-have-prevented-a-nightkill bandwagon.

The "who may have prevented a nightkill" bit sounds very, very off to me. Not sure why, just does.

These are the comments I'm refering to in the above post.

[sekinj]

SL: you are a player in this game, not a mod.... just reminding you as you seem to be confused....

[sekinj]

vote: Jebus

[sekinj]

Sekinj, my question was serious you know.

Then please re-phrase the question. I don't know what you are asking.

[sekinj]

i think the question was clear enough that it deserves an answer. you may need to read it a couple of times, but it makes sense. maybe try reading it again.

well, I guess I'm the odd man out, cause it's a mystery to me.

Sl: please do me the favor of re-phrasing

[sekinj]

read it in whatever tone you want, i dont understand why this is a relatent question. I was simply pointing out that maybe you shoudl worry about playing your part in the game, rather than worry about the responsibilities that are up to the mod. why do you need a break down of tonage?

[sekinj]

and no, I didn't miss it the first time, I just didn't understand the question or the purpose of it, as I said twice before.

[sekinj]

I explained my meaning. I don't know what else you want.

[sekinj]

I intended it to be taken in a manner that would make you play the game and not play mod. I don't know what to call that tone, straightforward? sarcastic? I don't know. take whatever tone you want, I meant it to be read as I wrote it.

I didn't ask about your question until you brought it up again because it is not a game relavent question. I said what I meant, and my tone is as it reads.

[sekinj]

Let me ask you sekinj, what do you think I am alignment wise?

town. I believe your claim that you are the doc, wholeheartedly.

[sekinj]

Let me ask you sekinj, what do you think I am alignment wise?

town. I believe your claim that you are the doc, wholeheartedly.

I think you are scum. What do you say about that?

Unvote, vote sekinj

I think you are retarded, what do you say about that?

[sekinj]

Spring: I've played with you before and you did the same silly questions, and came to the same baseless conclusion. Is there any reason you think I am scum besides the fact that I don't understand you or your play style?

[sekinj]

Let me ask you sekinj, what do you think I am alignment wise?

town. I believe your claim that you are the doc, wholeheartedly.

I think you are scum. What do you say about that?

Unvote, vote sekinj

I think you are retarded, what do you say about that?

I will ask you why you choose to go for the insult instead of asking me why?

because I posted my first reaction, and then my more in depth reaction second

[sekinj]

Spring: I've played with you before and you did the same silly questions, and came to the same baseless conclusion. Is there any reason you think I am scum besides the fact that I don't understand you or your play style?

sekinj:

1) Based on our previous meta, what makes you think that 'I'm retarted'?

2) Do you remember that, in aforementioned previous game, what made me change my mind about you (in error) is because you insulted me, and I took that as a sign of towniness.

1) I don't think you are retarted. or even retarded. that was just a smart ass comment that I probably shouldn't have said. but I do disagree with your playstyle in this game, and I never ever ever understand your questions or the point of them.

2) no actually i don't. I don't remember what game it was that I was in with you, i just rmeember that you asked the same weird quetions that seemed like a joke, but you said weren't.

[sekinj]

SL: for the record I agree that you may have your own reasons for withholding. Please do not spill until it carries the most benefit for the town.

[sekinj]

don: I came out and said it since SL and I seem to have problems understanding each other. I wanted it to be clear I don't like her playstyle, but I did believe her and agree with her not spilling.

this certainly doesn't help your towniness in my eyes.

[sekinj]

I didn't have a problem with her withholding the info, so why would I have speculated in thread as to why she was doing it? Besides the few reasons that I could think of woudl have been less effective if everyone was made aware.

[sekinj]

Since I was being very critical of SL I really didn't want someone to come back later and say I was trying to push her to reveal, since that was not the case.

SL: I was thinking that maybe you were not revealing just to see reactions, and who would try to push you to reveal like Jebus.

[sekinj]

jebus. I think he is much scummier than fhq.

[sekinj]

@spring: Do you think my post 525 was just me trying to be townie, or did you think that in our conversation the clarification was necessary?

[sekinj]

@spring: Do you think my post 525 was just me trying to be townie, or did you think that in our conversation the clarification was necessary?

sekinj, why are you asking me this?

because several players are saying that my 525 was just a chance for me to get townie points. however, in the context of our conversation, I felt like it was important to point out that I was pressuring you to play, NOT pressuring you to reveal. Being the other person involved, I was wondering if you felt that that distinction was necessary or if from your point of view I was simply getting townie points as well.

[sekinj]

@spring: Do you think my post 525 was just me trying to be townie, or did you think that in our conversation the clarification was necessary?

sekinj, why are you asking me this?

because several players are saying that my 525 was just a chance for me to get townie points. however, in the context of our conversation, I felt like it was important to point out that I was pressuring you to play, NOT pressuring you to reveal. Being the other person involved, I was wondering if you felt that that distinction was necessary or if from your point of view I was simply getting townie points as well.

Well, I can tell you that you are far from marking townie point with me and I don't remember giving you any such credit at any point in the game.

I'm just talking specifically about that one post. Do you think my clarification was necessary in our conversation, or just fluff on my part? post 525.

[sekinj]

I'm totally miffed by the fatalism about deadline.

It is an easy thing to vote for an extension if people are so willing, you guys are so fucking lazy.

well, the deadline has been effective in my mind since it is actually making you play instead of lurk. if we get closer and are active, I'm sure we will be able to request an extension.

[sekinj]

I've already spoken up for myself.

[sekinj]

in 527 and 538 I defend myself. but people still questioned it, so in 545 I asked what you thought sinc eyou were involved. As yes, sinc eyou were involved I thought you'd be able to give a better answer on whether you thought the clarification was necessary. however, i had to ask you 3 times before you answered clearly.

[sekinj]

I'm totally miffed by the fatalism about deadline.

It is an easy thing to vote for an extension if people are so willing, you guys are so fucking lazy.

well, the deadline has been effective in my mind since it is actually making you play instead of lurk. if we get closer and are active, I'm sure we will be able to request an extension.

Oh so for you getting me to play was a priority? If so, you are verily full of shit.

1. Whether I play or not doesn't impede you from playing.

2. If you think that the deadline has worked while the only person who has reacted to it is the one person you believe "wholehearted" to be town amidst a cluster of lurkers, then you are either a really crappy player or scum.

If there is someone I know is town, then YES, they are the person I want to play the most, because I know our alignments are the same. I would value their opinion and judgement and would be upset with them for lurking. that has been my point from my very first post in this game.

I've never commented that my play quality has been high or otherwise.

[sekinj]

in 527 and 538 I defend myself. but people still questioned it, so in 545 I asked what you thought sinc eyou were involved. As yes, sinc eyou were involved I thought you'd be able to give a better answer on whether you thought the clarification was necessary. however, i had to ask you 3 times before you answered clearly.

This is from my perspective misrepresentation.

I addressed you directly the first time you asked, asking you to justify your question.

Upon your explanation, I gave you an answer.

You seem to be unsatisfied with my answer and asked for more precision, I deemed the request sufficiently justified and clarified.

Now tell me, is there a point to your pique here?

I'm a little irritated with how you chose to respond. First of all, I made a few low level comments addressing the concerns that people had with 525, and then I decided to ask your opinion of the exchange sinc eyou were involved in it. It was fine that you needed follow up questions and clarification. However, then you call me scummy for tryign to get your opinion on a conversation. You say that I am the one fishing (when in fact I was just replying to your need for clarification) and that I'm not speaking up for myself which is completely untrue (see posts 527 and 538 as mentioned before).

I posted 525 because I felt the need to clarify, and I just wanted your take on it, that's all.

[sekinj]

your mother is pinging strongly. you are retarded to be almost confirmed and lurking. you shoudl be using your towniness to the towns advantage, but no you sit back and let everyone else play. why? what is the point in that?

why woudl I not want the towniest player to play and not lurk? If I think someone is town, then why woudln't I want their opinion on others and their reaction?


You can think what you want about my play, it doesn't bother me. I myself have made no comments either way.


you are impossible to play with sl.

[sekinj]

your mother is pinging strongly. you are retarded to be almost confirmed and lurking. you shoudl be using your towniness to the towns advantage, but no you sit back and let everyone else play. why? what is the point in that?

Dear sekinj I have already explained my play but since you insist so charmingly,

1. I am using my towniness to the advantage of town:
a. My being mostly confirmed means that my lurking is less hurtful to town than in normal condition: I am in fact not actively hurting town and I am also getting out the way.
b. I have also explained that given the fact scum probably deliberately choose to leave me alive, I wanted to avoid creating a situation in which I walk right in scum play by being vocal and being wrong right off the bat. Because being most town doesn't mean most right. This I think is actively helpful to town by making scum game harder.
c. I will add here that in a manner, still working on the assumption that scum choose to not NK me on purpose, not killing me have also effect of placing more pressure on me, I'm simply resisting that pressure.

a)I would rather you

help

the town by being involved, than trying to just

not hurt

the town by lurking. I just can't see lurking as a good strategy ever.
b) you are double guessing scum, I don't think you can win doing that.
c) given your early play in this game, it really just looks like you'd rather lurk.

why woudl I not want the towniest player to play and not lurk? If I think someone is town, then why woudln't I want their opinion on others and their reaction?

2. This is what you said:

If there is someone

I know is town, then YES, they are

the person I want to play the most,

because I know our alignments are the same. I would value their opinion and judgement and would be upset with them for lurking. that has been my point from my very first post in this game.

Emphasis on the underlined part. It is just bullshit and scummy, because as town, I have certainly less interest for people I think are low risk.

then we disagree. I woudl rather have the help of almost confirmed townies than have them lurk.

You can think what you want about my play, it doesn't bother me. I myself have made no comments either way.

3. What happened to you valuing my opinion? If I'm wrong on you being scummy, why isn't it bothering you?

you saying I'm scummy, and saying I'm a crappy player are two different things. one is relevant to the game, the other is your opinion about me personally. I woudln't be continuing my argument with you if I wasn't concerned that you think me scummy. however, I'm not concerned if you just think I'm a bad player.

[

you are impossible to play with sl.

And what is the purpose of that comment?

[/quote]
it's an observation that I can never win with you. you always think I'm scummy.

[sekinj]

a) I have explained why my play is actively helping the town.

---> I disagree with your conclusions. I believe discussion (like this) is what helps the town.

b) This statement makes no sense. The entire game of mafia is double guessing scum. Even more so as doc.

----> I mean you are basing your play on what you think the scum want you to do. I don't think that is a good choice.

c) What do you mean here? That you do not believe me when I say that my play is purposeful?

----> I believe that you think lurking as doc is the best way to play. I am trying to convince you otherwise.

Why? What does my being most confirmed change? It doesn't make me more right.

----> It makes you more trustworthy. I know you are not trying to lie to me or twist my words. you have the town's best interested at heart.

And you are sidestepping the issue here.
I can understand people me wanting to play. But what you said in reality is that the person you would want to see post

the most

would be a confirmed player.
And that is scummy because it isn't a scumhunting state of mind.
Surely, if you were genuinely interested in scumhunting, you'd rather see more from people you think are scum.

--->As in I would want the almost confirmed townie's comment or reaction to everyone else's post. If 3 other people are posting, I would like to know what the townie thought of all of those, meaning they would be posting the most. I know that isn't always realistic, but I'm saying that yes I would want to know what they thought about everything in order to compare it to my thoughts and therefore work together to find scum.

The last time that happened I was right, so your statement is pretty queer here.

--->but you are missing the point that you just think "I" am scummy. I understand that this point will not be proved to you until my alignment is revealed by the mod, but the things that you point out as scummy about me are things that I do regardless of alignment. those things are 1) not understanding you questions and therefore 2) ignoring those questions.

[sekinj]

^mine is bold

[sekinj]

nice

[sekinj]

It was just a "nice" as in "now I don't know what to think"

[sekinj]

what if there are 2 docs, 1 watcher, a serial killer and a 2 man mafia team. AND the sk just happened to pick Spoilum....

[sekinj]

No comment to sekinj's response, it was exactly what I expected.

What did you mean by this? I am asking now, because before I just thought you were scum, but now I am considering your claim.

[sekinj]

maybe we shoudl just mass claim

[sekinj]

@fhq - why wouldn't spring be scum target #1 as the (then) only claimed doc?

[sekinj]

even though I brought it up, I am actually against a mass claim. I thnk ppl will just lie anyway.

[sekinj]

what if there are 2 docs, 1 watcher, a serial killer and a 2 man mafia team. AND the sk just happened to pick Spoilum....

why is this strange?

I think budja accidentally slipped when he said singular scumbuddy. that means that either 1) he really had one scumbuddy OR 2) two scumbuddies, one active and one completely inactive during day one. I believe option 1.

AND

If we really have two docs (plus a watcher), then the mafia has to be balanced out in some other way, hence the sk.

HOWEVER

we had no kill(s) last night. The remaining mafia would obv go after Spring for the night kill, but jebus said he protected her. Spring however, says she protected Spoilum, so, if ther is a second scum group they would have had to have targeted spoilum as well for all those pieces to fit together.

[sekinj]

Please disregard Post 606. it was meant for another game.

mod: you can delete both this post and that post if you see fit. thank you!

[sekinj]

@ don - what do you think of budja's reference to a singular buddy?

[sekinj]

Let's think about what the make-up of scum woudl have to be in order to balance 2 docs...I think if we have two docs, we have to have two scum groups... expecially if you throw a town watcher in there as well...

thoughts?

[sekinj]

@RC - if it is not beleiveable to have 2 town docs, then one of spring or jeb must be lying. so why should we ignore them for the lynch today if that is the case?

[sekinj]

they wouldn't have HAD to communicate outside the thread. they could have each just accepted what the other person said. but that would mean that they are both lying which would be a strong indication they are both scum.

However, I think they could also easily both be docs, one town doc, one scum doc, and the mod used the same/very similar rhyme for their PMs

[sekinj]

@lynx - good thoughts regarding the docs. IF we have a scum doc and town doc, it woudl seem more probable that jebus was the scum doc who counter claimed the town on on Day 2. however, 1) he isn't pushing or seeming to want spring's lynch at all (which would seem to be the point of counter claiming) and 2) spring now seems much more scummy, so of the two I trust her less at this point, given all the claims.

but it is true that scum are down at this point so, even if they had 3 members to start out with it seems too risky to counter claim at this point. especially the day after the fact and then not push for a lynch.

So, to me, it really does seem like we actually have 2 docs. BUt what would the mafia have to have to counter such a powerful town? at least a godfather I'm thinking...

[sekinj]

and two scum parties doesn't make the scum stronger anyway, it is more in favor of the town, sicne their power is split up and they are sometimes working against each other.

[sekinj]

not sure what you mean by "not having to fake sincerity"? if i had a scum parnter(s), don't you think they would enlighten me as to the particulars of my role?

maybe they didn't know... maybe you didn't ask...

to me, two docs is more indicative of a "hitman" type role. you know, something that would trump the docs ability. isn't there the possibility one of them is equivalent to an "insane" cop or something? i will look in wiki, but i assume there are variants to the role.

this is a possiblity, but still the fact remains of the no kill last night, so whatever targeted spring failed I'm guessing because of Jebus's protect. So... maybe spring is insane, and IF they had targeted spoilum it would not have worked? but don't insame docs usually harm the person they are trying to protect?

[sekinj]

Now which one of these would balance two docs you think?

AND keep with the info we already know regarding last night's no kill, and the doc's claimed targets...

[sekinj]

I'm assuming scum went after the claimed doc spring, therefore jebus's protect was successful.

for Jebus that rules out naive and CPR; and leaves the possiblity of weak, jailkeeper, insane, and normal


for spring - CPR would be ruled out unless Jebus is a jailkeeper, and weak is only ruled out IF we assume Spoilum is town (which I'm not ready to do)... so she coudl possibly be any of those

[sekinj]

lynching spoilum would clear up one tiny possiblity out of many... not worth it at all for that reason.

[sekinj]

@sl - I don't think anything in particular about it. It indicates that you generally think he is townish, which I would agree with.

[sekinj]

Does anyone have anything against DO/Rhinox except DO wanting to lynch spring?

That move just strikes me as a replacement wanting to stir up trouble or being bored, or not wanting to read the whole game, ectetera. Does one scumtell a scum make? and to throw a little wifom on the fire - why would scum be that stupid?

[sekinj]

@Rhinox - I'm sure I have contradicted myself while speculating about the setup. I'm just trying to brainstorm, and as I think about it and as others bring up points, some possibilities are ruled out and other possibilities are re-thought.

[sekinj]

@rhinox - I'm saying ppl only have 1 thing against you and that's one stupid thing DO did. I don't think one stupid thing by a repalcement who was obviously not interested in playing the game should make you scum. I'm asking if anyone has anything except that against you.

[sekinj]

As spoilum re-quoted, they have to have gotten the same PM. I compared it to mine and mine is completely different. I wouldn't have been able to follow up what spring said with anything close to what Jebus reported.

@lynx - that is a good point. I can't find where you said that the first time.

[sekinj]

whoa, I didn't know I was still voting Jebus.

unvote

[sekinj]

I'm not sure how we can have a deadline if there is a completely inactive player.... Are we supposed to assume that makes him town?

[sekinj]

What about no-lynch? that would allow us to gain information tonight. it might be at the expense of a townie during the night, but I think we can afford that since there was no kill last night. I'd rather lose one townie tonight, than one townie today PLUS a townie tonight....

Maybe this is just bad scumhunting on my part, but I can't see anything sufficiently scummy enough to lynch someone over. I think gaining info tongiht is our best option.

vote: no-lynch

[sekinj]

I honestly don't see enough difference to choose. I also don't like how you have narrowed our options to just fhq and rhin. I think goatrevolt, spoilum and you have said just as many questionable things. PLUS - hohum is absent! what if he is the scum and is just lurking to victory. I just dont' like this situation and think a no lynch is our best option. I think without more information we will make a mistake.

[sekinj]

No lynch we're just going to be in the same situation with one less townie.

You disagree that we are going to gain information tonight?

[sekinj]

no, I can't. because I have just been examining the cases currently out there and arguing with sl.

[sekinj]

@spring - who did you protect?

@don - what did you find out?

[sekinj]

@ Spring - I think you could be a wider variety of things than just a quack doc... there are lots of different doc roles, as we discussed earlier.

I don't think spoilum has done anything scummy enough to be voted on based on the assumption that you MIGHT be a quack doc.

I also completely disagree with your Lynx thing. he is town.

[sekinj]

plus spoilum gets townie point for unvoting after your discussion

[sekinj]

He just seems very town to me. good scumhunting, not overly agressive.

I've seen him in a couple recent games and one just ended where he was town. I felt like he acted very similar in this game and that (well, before he was lynched by the random dice roll).

Open 120 - Rebels in the Palace

[sekinj]

Maybe he was just going by your past MO in this game...

[sekinj]

or unless 796 was your "good" post...

[sekinj]

yeah, it was sarcastic of something.

I can't say I will be sad to see you replaced. I have not liked your play or attitude in this game, although your role is important.

[sekinj]

because you know it's true

[sekinj]

my limit, huh? I'm not trying to tell you how to play... I'm simply saying that you should play. Lurking through most of the last two days is not helpful. I don't buy the excuses you've made for it. If all our power roles just sat in the background and tried not to get lynched, the town would lose every time.

I hope you don't keep the same playstyle if I am in a future game with you.

[sekinj]

Dear sl: you wouldn't know.

[sekinj]

I'm not going to discuss an ongoing game with someone who is not participating in it.

[sekinj]

SL I think you shoudl be modkilled for not dropping it when the mod said too. that's a much more clear violation than asking you to be a better player in future games (now how is that a violation again?)

In any case, I only said something because I ASSUMED that OF COURSE you would be replaced since you were going to be gone that long... but then, now that I think about it, you being V/LA is exactly like you being here, so I can see why the mod isn't worried about replacing you.

[sekinj]

And to make it clear, my modkill demand is serious and is separate from my case against sekinj.

I demand modkill regardless of her alignment.

You want to alter the outcome of the game for your personal vendetta? You notice how I have been saying ALL ALONG that I hate your play (or lack thereof) in this game, yet I believe you are the doc, and therefore, shouldn't be lynched? I'm not sure how much townier you want me to be. Of Course, if I was scum I could come up with some crap reason to vote you like... oh! not helping the town! but no, I've been defending you, and trying to keep your role in the game in order to help the town.

[sekinj]

2. filler posts thorough Day 2.
<snip>
3. Pointless pestering and smartass comments when out of justification fits her scum meta: see C9++
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Oh! and you can also check out this SAME game for how Spring acts when she is town. Funny how it is completely different than in this game...

see? I can throw crap logic around as well. That doesn't make it true.

[sekinj]

I think the scum gambled on choosing Jebus. Think about it... a plan was outlined that would save everyone (just outlined, not decided on, no one bound anyone to it). But, If there was one player who you thought was the greatest chance of NOT going with that plan, and would instead "do their own thing," Who would it be?

[wifom] The moral is, if I were the scum, I would have targeted Jebus on the chance that Spring was going to go do her own thing and not follow the plan discussed[/wifom]

[sekinj]

No, you are discrediting my play on false basis.

Do you want me to quote all of your posts that you say something to the effect of, "I'm still here but have nothing to say, play on."?? because I don't want to waste my time doing that since I think you are our last doc and not scum. We all know that is how you have been playing this game for the most part, so please stop. that is all I'm asking. At least when you are arguing with me you act like you care about this game.

[sekinj]

@RC - nice way to be sure you aren't offending anyone. Did you notice that I already said something pretty similar on the last page regarding jebus?

and spring and I are both dragging this arguement out because we suffer from the same flaw: we have to have the last word.

[sekinj]

well, I'm telling you point blank that I don't like your attitude or your play in this game. I hope you choose to play your next differently.

[sekinj]

@RC - no, I didn't think it was something new that only I came up with or that you were stealing it or anything. I was just wondering if you noticed that you were holding the same take on it as the person you are voting for as scum...

and all I want is for it break in the towns favor

@SL - I'm scummy because I think the town's doc shouldn't sit in the background for "certain periods" of the game?

[sekinj]

The difference between yourself and sekinj is that you have reproached me my playstyle, but when I told you that you could stuff it because this was the way I was going to play, you stopped the pointless bickering.

So I'm scum for not taking it when you told me to "stuff it"? I guess I really just don't like people telling me to stuff it. And it takes two to bicker...

As far as hypocrisy, how do you, as town, explain those "certain periods" that you feel justified to sit in the background? How can a town power role play like that? All I have ever said is that I don't like your attitude or they way you have chosen to play in this game. And as far as I can see, most other players agree with me (if not with my persistance).

The only thing anti-town I have done is spend way too much time responding to you. However, I do beleive it has made a ripe bed for scumhunting. Look at RC for example. His jump on my wagon I found very supicous.

[sekinj]

spring: responding to you is not making me laugh anymore, so I am done. I will only reply when I think you have something worthwhile to say.

What is your opinion on RC?

[sekinj]

The only thing I wanted to say is that I really wasn't trying to kick dirt at spring or cause a big thing when I asked her if she wasn't going to post over the weekend. I just recall, from this game, her being, like me, traditionally more absent over the weekend.

Way too hesitant to make spring angry. Is she a bomb that everyone has to tiptoe around? that is how everyone is treating her, and I'm just not going to do that.

Anyways, that's neither here nor there. I don't know why sekinj couldn't have just dropped this; I see it as a lose/lose situation for her, at least from my point of view. sekinj is risking coming across as bitter at best, and, at worst, scum trying to distract the town by constantly provoking spring.

I don't agree with this modkill business, but until I feel more like sekinj's motivations for dragging this feud out are sincere (regardless as to whether or not I think spring is just as guilty of dragging it out, I'm fairly confident that spring's town), I think she has certainly earned my vote: sekinj.

I think this is a good place for D3's first wagon.

this vote as well as the justification ("I think this is a good place for D3's first wagon.") seems opportunistic.

Plus, I'm not sure why the feud is my fault. Spring could drop it any time as well. I'm going to tell her my opinion just as forcefully as she tells her opinion. I don't see how that puts me in the wrong.

Also, spring and I are arguing about her playstyle, a thing most other players have mentioned once or twice as well (I just chose not to grin and bear it). We are not arguing about a case. Therefore, it does not follow that one of us is scum and one is town. We are both town.

I'm curious as to why RC has dropped off everyone's scum list when he was pretty high on some ppl's Days 1 and 2?

[sekinj]

you can say that again

[sekinj]

Sekinj and Spoilum, what do you think of Don's proposal? You both posted after it without commenting on it.

I don't think random voting is good idea especially Day 3. Plus, I'm rather against my own lynch... in this game anyway.

[sekinj]

how is a dice role not random? just because you limited the list to three doesn't make it not random.

[sekinj]

Don: I asked you a question for clarification, "How is a dice role not random?" instead of just answering or addressing that question you make a comment about how I am mis representing you statement. that is not true. I DID think you were saying we shoudl either random dice role or go in the order you suggested. Now that you have indirectly clarified, I can see where you are coming from.

I don't think it's problem to discuss a list of names... however, hasn't anyone considered that Spring is not going to make it another night? there is no one to protect her. I think the scum will take the chance of don seeing one of them to take out a confirmed townie.

[sekinj]

Don: I asked you a question for clarification, "How is a dice role not random?" instead of just answering or addressing that question you make a comment about how I am mis representing you statement. that is not true. I DID think you were saying we shoudl either random dice role or go in the order you suggested. Now that you have indirectly clarified, I can see where you are coming from.

nice try. why would i address such a rhetorical question?(please, don't answer). how was my clarification "indirect"? i don't believe the initial statement was as ambiguous as you are trying to make it seem, and now you are trying to blame me for your poor reading comprehension.

because it was OBV from that rhetorical question and the subsequent comment that I misunderstood you. and you addressed it indirectly becuase you just went off and tattle-taled to the town, crying that I was mis-repping you, instead of saying, "No, sek, a dice role is random, but I was suggesting more than that."

I don't think it's problem to discuss a list of names... however, hasn't anyone considered that Spring is not going to make it another night? there is no one to protect her. I think the scum will take the chance of don seeing one of them to take out a confirmed townie.

i will see them. there is no "chance" from my pov. you seem like a zoo monkey, flinging shit at the fence to see what will stick. are you uncomfortable being at the top of that list?

how in the world is this throwing shit? I'm just warning the town that this grand plan of lynching down the line isn't going to work because we very well may lose our doc tonight. I wasn't accusing anyone of anything. I said "chance" because AS WE ALL KNOW there IS a hidden role mechanic, plus you may not know everything about all the other roles *gasp*. Maybe the scum have two roleblockers, or some other role that would hinder you.

and damn straight I'm unconfortable being at the top of that list, as I already said, or are you tryign to blame me for you poor reading comprehension?

[sekinj]

The only problem, if you want to call it a problem, with the list being voted on that we're not effectively doing anything different than what we'd normally be doing at that point (coming to a concensus on who is the most scummy, lynch, repeat).

Moreover, this prospect probably looks a lot better from your point of view than it does to the rest of us, don.

qft

Well, sekinj, I'm not sure who I want to lynch, but I do know who I want to pressure.

good answer. point taken.

sekinj 878 wrote:
I don't think it's problem to discuss a list of names... however, hasn't anyone considered that Spring is not going to make it another night? there is no one to protect her. I think the scum will take the chance of don seeing one of them to take out a confirmed townie.

At this point, then, I say it's worth it. Would you rather having the watcher nab one mafia for sure or risk watching someone else at random and getting nothing? This is somewhat of a departure from my previous sentiments, but if only because not everyone is sold on don, I think this will kill two birds with one stone.

I completely agree that it is worth it. I wasnt' bringing it up in order to have anyone change any night actions, I was bringing it up to show that don's idea of just lynching down the line isn't really going to work out. I think each new day bring new information and we should discuss accordingly.

@RC - Also, I can see the OMGUS in my statements against you. but I was just exploring your reasoning more, and seeing what others thought of it as well. I didn't think the vote, or responses warrented a vote change on my part.

[sekinj]

I completely agree that it is worth it. I wasnt' bringing it up in order to have anyone change any night actions,

I was bringing it up to show that don's idea of just lynching down the line isn't really going to work out.

I think each new day bring new information and we should discuss accordingly.

^^^^ more certainty. sekinj, do you understand what i'm saying here?

No. I don't.

[sekinj]

Post 884 by Sekinj comes off scummy to me. Like she's trying to be submissive and give in to all of RC's points to perhaps ease the pressure off herself. Be nice and cuddley to your attacker is a good way to avert some of the aggression.

So, I need to scumhunt, but I'm not allowed to put pressure on people or question them and then accept their answer? not really understanding this...

[sekinj]

yes. only the '@rc' part was my response to his answer of my inital suspicion on him.

i understand about difficulty conveying thoughts. don and i seem to be speaking greek to each other

[sekinj]

Also, I can see the OMGUS in my statements against you. but I was just exploring your reasoning more, and seeing what others thought of it as well. I didn't think the vote, or responses warrented a vote change on my part.

I understand the first part of this, but not the second part. Did you mean to say "a vote change on your part", referring to me?

No, I'm saying that my suspicion of you was never strong enough to make me switch my vote to you. and my suspicion of you has gone down since questioning you.

[sekinj]

sekinj: Analysis please. Top three scummy players. Reasons. Thanks.

ok. ok. I'll get on it. it will be my next post....

[sekinj]

I know I know. I am here. just a little over whelmed. I'm not trying to stall, just tryign to gather my thoughts. I've posted in other games because they are very short games without many players. I've asked for replacement in my only other 12 person game. But in anycase, I'm glad everyone is hanging on my next words, makes me feel wanted/needed/loved

So here it goes.

first of all... AHHHH!!! NOT OGML!!!

ok. for now I beleive don and spring, but I think the scum MUST have some pretty powerful roles. I also beleive Lynx is town.

that leaves:

Goat

- would have to have been bussing budja from very early on. His interaction with budja and suspicion seem genuine.

Ice

- good day 1 play, no good read on replacements.

RC

- good play and reasoned responses throughout each day

Rhinox

- the biggest thing is the weird play by DO

Spolium

- wishy washy about budja, jumped off saying fake claim was unlikely, then jumped on again quickly when spring countered, gave excuse of "lesson learned"

I know this isn't huge or anything and some of you are goign to be dissapointed, but I went back and looked at each of these players in isolation and this is my verdict.

Vote: Spolium

Mod: can we get a deadline extension? especially given our doc's absence... I, for one, sure would like her input...

[sekinj]

not enough scumhunting and I was arguing with spring.

[sekinj]

DO wanting to lynch spring. That was the only thing from your character that stood out to me. I think it was just a bored alt, but it is worth remembering.

[sekinj]

Mod: VC please. Am I at L-1?

[sekinj]

So... Is anyone going to back off? Or am I going to have to claim....

[sekinj]

i'm your cop.
that's why I know Lynx is town, and why I think we have a godfather (unless Lynx is the godfather).

[sekinj]

i'm your cop.
that's why I know Lynx is town, and why I think we have a godfather (unless Lynx is the godfather).

There were two nights. You should have two investigations. Why do you only have one? Also why did you choose to investigate me?

plonky failed to investigate anyone on the first night. I investigated you because spring threw that huge fit about you right before night 2.

[sekinj]

Rhinox - I didn't think DO's action was worthy of a lynch, just worthy of note.

Yes, Lynx could be the godfather. Also, spring could lying, and don could be lying. Also, I could be insane... *shrug* there are just too many possibilities along that vein to go running after them right now. I'd rather explore the remaining players... or I'd be willing to go with a no lynch to try to get more info... but now I am a mafia target so I may not make it through the night.

I was entertaining the thought of a mass claim because I wanted to get some serious discussion on possible roles. however, after reflection, i realized it was probably best to just see how things went and try to get investigations at night, using the knowledge gained from roles already claimed.

Also, me being a cop is one reason I was so pissed at spring. What if all our town power roles just sat in the background and only commented when they felt like it? well, if we really have 4, then that is a huge chunk of the town not playing. that is unacceptable, and spring's choice to play that way in this game is just stupid.

[sekinj]

now that I can pole the other players -

Who should I investigate tonight?

I was debating between checking spring's (or don's) alignment, or checking some other player who is unclaimed (goat, spoilum, ice, RC, Rhinox)

[sekinj]

@don - I stated information I DID have with my claim. I excluded information I did not have.

and how is this last minute if I was talking about a godfather and a no lynch yesterday?

[sekinj]

when i have replaced into games, mods give me information pertinent to the role i am replacing, though i have not been in your position(investigative) i do know that info should be passed on. also, you didn't mention that you "did not have" the information before. also, if you didn't have the information and you replacxed in as cop, why would you wait until after you have claimed to pm the mod and ask him who you investigated night 1? seriously?

vote: sekinj

nice try.

I didn't wait, and I never said I did. the mod told me right away that plonky didn't investigate anyone. I don't see hwo it is a big deal that I didn't include a null investigate in my original claim post.

[sekinj]

you mis-understood me, don. I wasn't saying that I "did not have" any information about who was investigate night 1. I was was saying that there was no information to share about it, no one was investigated, so I didn't think it important to share a null fact in my first claim post. I knew the question would come up and I woudl asnwer in the next few posts... I still dont' understand why you believe that to be so important. [wifom] if i was fake claiming, and had been setting it up from yesterday when I mentioned a godfather, don't you think I would have pat answers to everything and have included anything I could think of to be more believeable in my very first post? [/wifom]

[sekinj]

Rhinox - I disagree with your options based on who might be scum, that is not the best way to decide what course of action we should take tonight.

Spring will be the auto target tonight since there is no one to protect her. If she survives til tomorrow then her alignment is questionable. that said, with 2 investigative roles, we may not be able to avoid a dead doc, but we could at least come back with information from both don and I.

Here is what I think of the options:

1)

don watches spring, spring protects me, and I investigate someone.

This uses all of our abilities to the best advantage

2)

don watches me, spring protects don, I investigate someone

spring will still die, and since no one is watching her, we will come back with my info, but no new info from don.

3)

don watches spring and spring protects don.

I will die and we will have no new information tomorrow, just a surviving doc.

i obv think option 1 is our best bet.

[sekinj]

EBWOP: Option 1 gives us a dead doc, but a piece of information from both don and myself.

[sekinj]

If you ignore his claim, which is now EXTREMELY questionable given the appearance of another claimed investigative role, then his actions surrounding the early budja wagon become extremely damning.

qft. and he seems to be very hung up on the details of when i posted what, which i dont' understand.

[sekinj]

Actually, now that I think about it, if you add in at the end of option 1 that sekinj investigates don, then thats a pretty tight loop - sekinj can't be killed, and would learn weather or not don is scum. That way if spring dies, we would know whether or not he was giving us honest watch results.

If all 3 are telling the truth, we're golden. If just 1 is lying, they either have to play along, or sacrifice 1 of their own to kill 1 of the the 2 honest PRs. If 2 are lying, however, the town is in a position to get played big time.

I think this is a good idea (unless I'm insane). It is trading off two questionable results for one solid result. But if you are right and spring is not the auto lynch, wouldn't scum jsut lynch don in this scenario and spoil it all?

[sekinj]

Mod: I again plead for a deadline extension

We have much to discuss and I know spring will want to go crazy on my when she gets back... Plus I'm going to have sporatic internet access on Saturday.

[sekinj]

@RC - if goat isn't reading the thread, your pressure vote isn't doing any good. maybe you are stalling...

[sekinj]

oh no! I really am the cop though! and I invesitaged Lynx!!

[sekinj]

Is anyone vanilla??

maybe the mod put in tons of roles so we would all counter claim and kill each other off. maybe that is how the town is balanced with the scum.

I definitely am ready for a mass claim.

[sekinj]

i'm not trying to outguess the mod, I'm speculating as to the setup... there is a difference. I think a mass claim will get everything out in the open.

[sekinj]

lol. it's kind of funny that ALL the other claimed power roles are voting me...

[sekinj]

[joke] I think you should claim watcher. [/joke]

[sekinj]

I want you to claim. because I want everyone to claim.

[sekinj]

though it is highly believable that plonky failed to pick a target night 1, i find it unbelievable that sekinj would fail to state this with her initial investigation results. results are results and this claim seems like a last minute scum claim.

I agree with don here, but not as strongly as he does.
I do think sekinj's claim sounds sketchy and I do think Plonky probably didn't submit anything and I do find it hard to believe sekinj wouldn't inquire about N1 investigations when she got a Cop role PM after replacing in D2.
As I said earlier, however, I don't think that alone is good enough to lynch her, not when we have other possibilities.

I have already addressed this with don. Did you miss those answers? I will repost them here for you.

I didn't wait, and I never said I did. the mod told me right away that plonky didn't investigate anyone. I don't see hwo it is a big deal that I didn't include a null investigate in my original claim post.

you mis-understood me, don. I wasn't saying that I "did not have" any information about who was investigate night 1. I was was saying that there was no information to share about it, no one was investigated, so I didn't think it important to share a null fact in my first claim post. I knew the question would come up and I woudl asnwer in the next few posts... I still dont' understand why you believe that to be so important. [wifom] if i was fake claiming, and had been setting it up from yesterday when I mentioned a godfather, don't you think I would have pat answers to everything and have included anything I could think of to be more believeable in my very first post? [/wifom]

I don't see hwo it is a big deal that I didn't include a null investigate in my original claim post.

The problem is why you wouldn't think, if you were actually Cop, to include that information automatically. Traditionally when someone makes a big claim like that, they want to give as much information as possible. When people start having to ask you, that makes it harder to believe you're being upfront and honest about everything.

I already answered this as well. you seem to be selectively reading. Please re-read my quotes above.

EBWOP: Option 1 gives us a dead doc, but a piece of information from both don and myself.

You really don't believe don is a Watcher do you? Am I the only one who does?

what?? My statement says that we will get information from both don and myself. how in the world did you jump to the conclusion that I don't believe don. I have stated many many times that I believe both don and spring for now.

@RC - if goat isn't reading the thread, your pressure vote isn't doing any good. maybe you are stalling...

Don't start using ellipses with me, missy.
Goat may or may not be reading this thread but if the decision is between Goat and Spolium then I would be happier with Goat.
Although I reference my frustration with his absence, you do realize I think Goat is the scummiest player currently in this game, right?

if you think he is the scummiest player, then give that reason when you vote him rather than crap about trying to make him stop lurking.

God, do not tell me Lynx is claiming too...
Okay, re-thinking the game. I won't do the same analysis of Lynx that I did of sekinj until tomorrow (if he's still with us).

more stalling? I don't see why we need to wait. let's discuss now while more of us are alive!!

maybe the mod put in tons of roles so we would all counter claim and kill each other off. maybe that is how the town is balanced with the scum.

I think this is a definite possibility.

qft

A mass claim right now will just add to the confusion. I think we need to have a lynch and a night to resolve whats wrong with the current claims before we think about massclaiming.

Agreed. The only person that should be claiming right now is today's lynch candidate.

If we have tons of power roles, don't you realize the pointlessness of this? it is just popcorn claiming by using votes. we get spoilum at L-1, he claims, we back off, we get Ice at L-1, he claims, we back off... Let's just skip all that and mass claim! You know what I think?? scum does not want to mass claim because they are scared to say they are vanilla townie! there very well may not be any vanilla townies, and scum do not want to be a target by saying that, it would be pretty difficult to come up with a third doc, or third cop at this point... I'm not saying there aren't vanilla townies, I'm just saying that scum doesn't want to be the first one to claim to be vanilla townie.

Were it possible to defend myself from a process of elimination, I guess I'd be doing it now.

If this isn't an admission to being mafia, then explain this comment please.
To me this sounds like, "I can't defend myself, not going to bother... I'm scum."
If you're town, you have a responsibility to fight back. There is a prime opportunity in Goat still, if you ask me, or you could pick up on a No Lynch argument too.
That said, I think it's time for Spolium to claim given the fact that the Mod has shown no signs of extending the deadline.

[/quote]
this is bull. spolium is saying that it's impossible to defend against a process of elimination vote, and RC is saying the pat townie thing "you have to fight if you're town" bull bull bull. RC is going back up on my scumdar with this post full of issues I have already addressed and other mis-reps.

[sekinj]

Why do you think a mass claim would be good right now?

If we have tons of power roles, don't you realize the pointlessness of this? it is just popcorn claiming by using votes. we get spoilum at L-1, he claims, we back off, we get Ice at L-1, he claims, we back off... Let's just skip all that and mass claim! You know what I think?? scum does not want to mass claim because they are scared to say they are vanilla townie! there very well may not be any vanilla townies, and scum do not want to be a target by saying that, it would be pretty difficult to come up with a third doc, or third cop at this point... I'm not saying there aren't vanilla townies, I'm just saying that scum doesn't want to be the first one to claim to be vanilla townie.

[sekinj]

unvote

[sekinj]

I have already addressed this with don. Did you miss those answers?

Yeah, like I told you, I read posts chronologically. I read the answer "that the Mod told you right away" after I typed that.

THen you shoudl have deleted it because your concern was answered, instead you went ahead and posted a mis-rep of what I said. AND you can't say you are chronologically reading, and then expect me to ignore a point you brought up because I already addressed it. If you bring it up after I have addressed it, I HAVE to assume you missed what I said. otherwise it is opening up the possibility that you or other players will think I am ignoring questions.

But that doesn't change the validity of the issue in you not telling us immediately that Plonky didn't visit anyone N1.
You say you "don't see how it's a big deal" to miss investigations? I completely disagree.

and another mis-rep!! I DID NOT say that plonky not sending in a vote was "not a big deal" I'm furious at plonky for that. that was stupid and show a lack of regard for all the other players and the game. i SAID that it wasnt' a big deal that I didn't spout everything I knew in one post, but rather used two posts, one right after the other. why is that a big deal??

you seem to be selectively reading.

You'll have to excuse me for repeating infomation that someone else has already said. I tend to read posts chronologically and immediately comment rather than read them all at once.

Look who's talking

not funny. see above. you can't use chronologically reading as an excuse to bring up already resolved points.

how in the world did you jump to the conclusion that I don't believe don.

Because the plan you support leaves him vulnerable. I know you want to stay alive at night, all players do, but you should understand that it's more important to have the Watcher/Doctor alive than a Cop.

Especially

when there's another Cop claim out.

1) someone has to be vulnerable.
2) if don/spring just watch/protect each other, the scum will just pick off the cop and the town will know NOTHING the next day. (this of course changed with point number 3).
3) I created those scenarios BEFORE lynx claimed

if you think he is the scummiest player, then give that reason when you vote him rather than crap about trying to make him stop lurking.

I did, hon!

Lose the endearment, and give it to me the first time, don't make me drag it out of you. and dont' pretend I didn't have to drag it out of you because when you actually voted you stated it was ONLY to pressure him. you revise that only after I pointed it out.

more stalling? I don't see why we need to wait. let's discuss now while more of us are alive!!

Why? I won't be voting either of you today.

you are asking why we should discuss??? in case you didn't know scum kill townies and power roles at night. someone with town alignment will die tonight. I would rather discuss NOW whiel that person is still alive...



I am not liking this latest posting by RC. He is definitely back on my list of possible lynch canidates.

[sekinj]

@spring - that link is broken. what post are you wanting me to respond too?

@mod: Why did you grant spring's extension request right away when I asked for an extension twice for the same reason, her V/LA? it's not fair

ok, I'm done whining, I just had to get that out.

because of goat being gone. I just threw in the VLA for good measure. I would've extended the deadline anyway.
Also, because spring is superawesome. :p

[sekinj]

spring: No. I'm not going to respond point by point. It's pointless. If you'd like to make a case against me while being objective and with current information I'll have no problems satisfing your request for a point by point response. As it is, that post is just the same old stuff we went back and forth about before you left. and if you recall, I told you I was done with that.

[sekinj]

Spring: Quote me one time when I said you were not scumhunting. What I have repeatedly said is I did not like your play or your attitude and that you should doing more to help the town. That means don't lurk whenever it suites your fancy.

And anyone (except you) can see that you are not objective in your suspicion of me.

[sekinj]

spring - enough. I don't care what you think anymore. Do whatever you want to do.

[sekinj]

This is a good point here... I overlooked it initially. If Sekinj is the insane cop, how does that make me mafia? Presumably, that would mean lynx would be a sane cop, and lynx is the one with an innocent on me *headscratch*

If sekinj is an insane cop then Lynx could not be the sane cop; he would be scum.

given his claim, I've also ruled out that he is a godfather. If he was a godfather he'd be sitting pretty with an inno result, rather than putting him self out there with a counter. So either I am sane, or he is scum (from my pov)

[sekinj]

yes. I recieved a brief description. My role PM had my role name, what I needed to do each night, what the results could be, and my win condition.

[sekinj]

If Sekinj is telling the truth then the only possibilty is that she's naive considering I know my alignnment.

What?? how does getting a town aligned result on you make me naive?

[sekinj]

I'm not so keen on it anymore. I havn't really liked RC's latest responses...

[sekinj]

vote: RC

I haven't had a chance to follow up his last long post liek I have been meaning to, but the summary is I didn't like his answers and how he is spinning things.

[sekinj]

don - you cannot protect the claimed town doc, you can watch her and hope that that discourages her being a target. Given the trouble you have had with your role PM, I think that is an important clarification.

[sekinj]

^post 1041

[sekinj]

@lynx - is there anyway we can be sure to not investigate the same person tongiht?

[sekinj]

I think that is a good idea. I'll take the ice and spoilum/rc pairing.

For you there is also the option of investigating me, so I don't think you should reveal who you intend to investigate between goat, don and me.

[sekinj]

please vote as you promised rhin

[sekinj]

EBWOP: never mind

[sekinj]

I will investigate ice or spolium
Lynx will investigate me, goat or don.
all other power roles are apparently on their own.

good night everyone

[sekinj]

And I was blocked. So we have nothing new on the cops. I tried to look at ice.

Don - did yu get anything?
Spring - who did you protect?

[sekinj]

agree about the mass claim. we may have been able to avoid the rc lynch if we had done that yesterday.

[sekinj]

Rhin - B) Innocent


spring - How many scum do we have remaining? We could have 2 scum left. Spoilum sent in the kill N1 and was blocked, and the second night scum2 sent in the kill and was successful.

[sekinj]

Sekinj was informed about being roleblocked

or is lying (doubtful)

What makes you say this? Sekinj never said that she was

informed

of being roleblocked.

qft

[sekinj]

I was not informed of being roleblocked. I gathered that from the supporting evidence. My PM said I investigated Ice but I was not successful and returned no result.

Rhin - I doubt the mod is looking very favorably on our attempts to compare PMs at this point. he may be intentionally adding differences.

[sekinj]

I don't like the don/ice confirming each other thing. I was supicious of don before, and I was obviously suspicious of ice. don may have claim watcher early to get out of being lynched, and now, after discussing how they were goign to compare it and "Confirm" each other duirng the night, ice come backs and claims to be the 2nd watcher. This is only after 2 docs and 2 cops have popped up.

I agree that the mafia probably has multiple roleblockers.

[sekinj]

Why claim "I was blocked" if you weren't certain that was the case???

because the result of my investigation seemed like I was blocked.

If I was lying, wouldn't I jsut come back and say, you're right, it said I was roleblocked. There's no reason for me to go against the grain now if I am lying. (wifom I know)

[sekinj]

If you had the option of 2 or 3, which one would you say? "I was blocked" or "there may be something with ice's role that makes me get no result"

[sekinj]

Plus - saying "I was blocked" does not exclude your option 3. Whether the block came from a role blocker targeting me, or from somthing in ice's role that caused me to get no result, the fact is something blocked me, so that is what I said.

[sekinj]

Rhin - I doubt the mod is looking very favorably on our attempts to compare PMs at this point. he may be intentionally adding differences.

You mean like the

differences

similarities we were using to confirm jebus and spring?

exactly. When we tried to do that again, he told us to desist.

[sekinj]

ok. thanks Tony.

Then I'm not certian why I got an innocent, and you got a not guilty. mayb you are trying to frame me....

[sekinj]

you are reaching don. I was blocked. goat misunderstood so I explained it in more detail. If you haven't figured this out already I'm not caught up in the semantics. I'm not suspicious of goat for mis-understanding.

just because I think there are mafia roleblockers does not mean to think spring is one of them. I think she is a paranoid doc. however...

Thoguht: Tony has emphasized several times that we should not discuss the poems in the PMs and that they are for flavor only. Spring is currently "confirmed" because of the similarities between her and Jebus's poem. Maybe Tony is trying to tell us we should throw that out? or maybe we are too close to the truth...

[sekinj]

if I was scum attempting a NK on N1, what reason would I have to think I was being roleblocked, as opposed to the target being protected?

because spring claimed and said she "protected" you. so you realized that spring's protection results in a block.

[sekinj]

(sorry, you didn't claim to be blocked, you just said it and meant that you got no result which led you to believe you were blocked)?

exactly.

[sekinj]

I was agreeing with spoilum that I never said, "I was informed that I was roleblocked."

I'm not suspicious of goat for misunderstanding, after the discussion between goat and spoilum I can see how "I was blocked" would need clarification. but see, I don't give clarification until someone asks for it because I don't always know when something needs clarification until it is pointed out.

My power was blocked by something causing me to get a no result....

if you believe spring to be paranoid doc, why do you think there is a mafia roleblocker when noone has claimed to be roleblocked but you

If someone is mafia and is lying about their role, why would they say they were a roleblocker, when the only other known role blocker was mafia? woukdn't they just say "I'm 'nilla". I'm assuming the mafia is lying about the role claim, which I dont' think is too much of a stretch.

so do you or do you not think spring is a mafia roleblocker? it is hard to tell what you mean when you say one thing and then throw out a sideays accusation like this.

I thought of that while I was typing. I'd like to get other's feedback on that.

[sekinj]

(sorry, you didn't claim to be blocked, you just said it and meant that you got no result which led you to believe you were blocked)?

exactly.

you are not answering any questions here. even if i accept your bullshit backtracking excuse, your current suspicions make no sense. please explain yourself.

was workign on it

[sekinj]

and I'm not backtracking. how is clarification backtracking? spring has the same misconception of clarifying. just because you misunderstood me the first time doesn't mean my additional explaination is backtracking

[sekinj]

you said " i was blocked". someone drawing the conclusion that "you were blocked" is not a case of the second party misunderstanding. it is a case of the first party misspeaking.

pov

[sekinj]

My power was blocked by something causing me to get a no result....

please paraphrase your results pm.

I already did.

if you believe spring to be paranoid doc, why do you think there is a mafia roleblocker when noone has claimed to be roleblocked but you

If someone is mafia and is lying about their role, why would they say they were a roleblocker, when the only other known role blocker was mafia? woukdn't they just say "I'm 'nilla". I'm assuming the mafia is lying about the role claim, which I dont' think is too much of a stretch.

you are avoiding the question or misunderstanding it. if there is a mafia roleblocker then they would have targeted someone. you are the only person who is claiming to be "blocked". spring targeted you and you say you believe she is a paranoid doc. where's the roleblocker? who did they target? your suspicions don't add up.

[/quote]
a paranoid doc stops someone from using their power while protecting them, correct? in terms of flavor, the paranoid doc locks someone in their office preventing them from leaving which results in them being protected and not being able to use their power... That is how she blocked me and protected me. or am I not understanding what a paranoid doc is?

[sekinj]

I was not informed of being roleblocked. I gathered that from the supporting evidence.

My PM said I investigated Ice but I was not successful and returned no result.

the bold above is my paraphrased PM.

[sekinj]

a paranoid doc stops someone from using their power while protecting them, correct? in terms of flavor, the paranoid doc locks someone in their office preventing them from leaving which results in them being protected and not being able to use their power... That is how she blocked me and protected me. or am I not understanding what a paranoid doc is?

*facepalm*

WHERE"S THE FUCKING MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE EXISTS IF YOU ALSO BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE "BLOCKED" BY A PARANOID DOC? NOONE ELSE HAS CLAIMED TO BE ROLEBLOCKED. WHY DO YOU EVEN THINK ANOTHER MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER EXISTS?

Oh... I see what you are saying...

I was just thinking about another rb because we have so many power roles...

but you are saying all other roles got results, so either spring is a mafia rb, the mafia rb targetted a vanilla (unlikely), or there is no mafia rb....

[sekinj]

lol

[sekinj]

You think there are multiple scum roleblockers, but you think Spring is a paranoid doc? Where is the information leading you to believe a 2nd roleblocker is coming from in that case, if you don't necessarily think it's Spring? Nobody else has claimed to have been blocked, so there's no physical evidence of another non-Spring roleblocker. Explain?

already did. look at my conversation with don.

[sekinj]

Don - Yes I did! As I said, I was only speculating about another rb because of all the power roles. I didn't understand your point, or how it narrowed down the rb to being spring ior no one. I now do and can see that the only options are
1) there is no additional mafia rb
2) the rb targeted a vanilla (unlikely)
3) spring is not a doc but a mafia rb

This is what I already said. and yes, I did find it humorous that it took me that long to understand what you were saying.

[sekinj]

People are getting too tied up in semantics.

[sekinj]

I think I agree with don.... looking back at the claim/counterclaim, it really seems like budja and spring could be talking to each other.

spring - "counterclaim, I'm the doc, don't hammer"
spring - "okay, go ahead and hammer"
budja - "hammer, good luck scum buddy."

And then spring points out the "scumbuddy" reference herself.

Also, how many times has spring told others that they need to do in depth analysis and not speculate, and then she says she will/should/would do something in depth herself. Then she comes back and says, "screw it", "I'm too lazy", "I don't have time." I think this is just making it appear that she has big reasoning behind her actions when really she has nothing. She has only done the one big "analysis" in order to save herself from a lynch, and even that was not the "notes during the game" that she claimed it to be.

vote: spring

[sekinj]

1. Scum can "scumhunt" too, expecially in a game like this that is ripe for calling someone else a lier. I think you say you are going to do analysis, but then never do because you don't actually have anything to say. This creates the illusion that you have a ton of in depth reasoning behind your actions.

2. I never addressed your vote on me. I don't care how clear it is, or how seperate it is from your anaylsis. I think you say you are going to do analysis, but then never do because you don't actually have anything to say. This creates the illusion that you have a ton of in depth reasoning behind your actions.

3. I disagree. I think it is very plausible.

4. I cannot address your cases because there is too much shit to wade through. Your attack on me is completely emotional and driven by your hatred of my critism of your play style. You are not even considering ANY other possibilities at this point. If I am scum, who is my scumpartner? (assuming 2 left)

5. Incorrect. Notice how my post didn't contain any reference to your vote, or anyone else's vote on me. I had been thinking about don's point and it made sense. I can see you trying to pull off something like that.


Why in the world did you want a response? it's not like you have listened to me this entire game.

IF

you are town, you need to learn how to take criticism.

and... what in the world is emotional glamour? and is it really flamable?

[sekinj]

So here is one for you, hypothetically, what would have persuaded you that my vote is not emotional?

Maybe I would put more stock in your arguments if you hadn't asked for my modkill simply for criticizing you.


And here is one for you, hypothetically, what would have persuaded you that I am not scum?

[sekinj]

either you think I'm scum, or you think I'm emotional town.

I thnk you are emotional scum.

[sekinj]

About spring:

Spring is a second mafia roleblocker. After no one counterclaimed budja and she had been run up, she counterclaimed her own scumpartner under the false assumption that there just wasn't a doctor at all, in order to survive the day herself and hopefully get falsecleared for the remainder of the game.

What explains the no kill N1 if this is the case?

Sekinj, can you answer that question as well.

that is a good point. Maybe this:
If some other townie was killed, many would question why the mafia did not target the claimed doc. By submitting a no kill, it opens up the possibilites. She could easily "speculate" that she was successful in her protect, or that something else unknown happened with the night kill.

[sekinj]

What do you say?

I dismiss your arguments because I don't see the point in addressing them. You say my opinion is stupid, I say no it's not. What cold hard facts do you want? I do not have the bloody knife you used to stab Lynx.

1. You didn't lurk all through D1 in other game I was in with you. That is why I always limited my critiscm to "this game". and whether you like it or not, I obviously committed no a modkillable offense.

2. You lurked. That is a fact. That is what I critized. Others agreed. You took it to include scumhunting, which is a misconception on your part. I'm going to gag if I have to say this one more time.

So, I am scum because I am tired of having a catfight with you and repeating the same thing to you over and over? and you say if I was town I would have already agreed to the validity of your arguments... but wouldn't that mean you want me to agree to their conclusion as well, that I am scum? So if I were town, I would agree with you that I was scum? somehow I don't think self-voting would put me on anyone else's town list...

[sekinj]

Poll: Does anyone else think spring's points against me are valid and need to be addressed? If so, please quote the statement of spring's you would like me to address and I will do so immediately.

[sekinj]

Sekinj: Why did you push for mass claim day 2 before you had any results? What was your motivation?

well, for one, i didn't "push" for it, but I did suggest it. My motivation was actually my frustration at spring. I wanted to show her that she wasn't the only power role around and so didn't have a license to lurk since the rest of us weren't. However, once I realized that 1) I wouldn't have any results to claim, and 2) would become a mafia target after claiming and therefore might die wihtout ever bringing results, I posted my disagreement with it. if you hadn't noticed I usually type before I think (which is why i stack up so many posts in a row)

[sekinj]

Why were you so focused on getting spring to contribute and less focused on finding scum? Isn't the job of a townie to find scum, not push along other townies?

Trying to get spring to contribute wasn't my initial goal. It was the first thing I commented on, and then with spring's response, I let myself get drawn into a huge catfight with her, which, shouldn't have, but did distract me from finding scum.
Truthfully, it was also kind of hard for me to scumhunt when I knew I could just inquire after someone at night and that be the end of it. I certainly didn't want to build a huge case, then get an innocent night result and have to undo all that work the next day.

What do you think "proving to spring" would have done? What benefit would there have been?

It would make her stop lurking and start giving more opinions on other people's cases and actions.

[sekinj]

I really wish we'd done a mass claim earlier. I think that would have saved RC and brought to light the vast amount of roles. then we wouldn't have been afraid to look at don more closely, just because he claimed a role.

[sekinj]

meh, if only, if only...