Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[Rhinox]

unvote

hmm.. What about a mass claim now? with 4 claimed PR, now might not be a bad time. I don't support a no-lynch though.

[Spolium]

Doc-Doc-Watcher-Cop... Which doesn't fit with the rest? Does it seem logical that the town can actually have all 4 of those roles? I think it seems likely now that at least 1 of the 3 remaining are lying.

QFT. Two investigative roles and two protective roles is far too powerful.

I think tonight Spring should target Sekinj, while Sekinj targets someone else - Goat or Rhinox would be good choices - and Don should target Spring. No sense in making the same mistake two nights in a row.

[don_johnson]

Doc-Doc-Watcher-Cop... Which doesn't fit with the rest? Does it seem logical that the town can actually have all 4 of those roles? I think it seems likely now that at least 1 of the 3 remaining are lying.

QFT. Two investigative roles and two protective roles is far too powerful.

I think tonight Spring should target Sekinj, while Sekinj targets someone else - Goat or Rhinox would be good choices - and Don should target Spring. No sense in making the same mistake two nights in a row.

so are you talking no lynch?

i think sekinj's claim is bullshit. though it is highly believable that plonky failed to pick a target night 1, i find it unbelievable that sekinj would fail to state this with her initial investigation results. results are results and this claim seems like a last minute scum claim. but whatever. i would be okay lynching sekinj, but i am wary that my second choice for lynch seems to be suggesting a "no-lynch" and that docspring protects "cop"sekinj while "watcher"don gets whacked and left in a ditch.

[Rhinox]

I think tonight Spring should target Sekinj, while Sekinj targets someone else - Goat or Rhinox would be good choices - and Don should target Spring. No sense in making the same mistake two nights in a row.

What makes me or goat good investigation choices?

The paranoid side of me is thinking, with the threat of a godfather and the fact that goat has been under heavy suspicion from some players, that you know something about goat, and I think you threw me in there to try to hide it...

The more rational side of me says that it is anti town to try to direct a cop investigation under most circumstances regardless.

[sekinj]

@don - I stated information I DID have with my claim. I excluded information I did not have.

and how is this last minute if I was talking about a godfather and a no lynch yesterday?

[don_johnson]

when i have replaced into games, mods give me information pertinent to the role i am replacing, though i have not been in your position(investigative) i do know that info should be passed on. also, you didn't mention that you "did not have" the information before. also, if you didn't have the information and you replacxed in as cop, why would you wait until after you have claimed to pm the mod and ask him who you investigated night 1? seriously?

vote: sekinj

nice try.

[Rhinox]

EBWOP: scratch the last part. I missed sekinj's last post on the last page where she asked who to investigate.

I think tonight Spring should target Sekinj, while Sekinj targets someone else - Goat or Rhinox would be good choices - and Don should target Spring. No sense in making the same mistake two nights in a row.

What makes me or goat good investigation choices?

The paranoid side of me is thinking, with the threat of a godfather and the fact that goat has been under heavy suspicion from some players, that you know something about goat, and I think you threw me in there to try to hide it...

The more rational side of me says that it is anti town to try to direct a cop investigation under most circumstances regardless.

[Spolium]

@don - Whoa there. What exactly makes you think I'm suggesting a no-lynch?

@Rhinox - I mentioned Goat because his play has changed significantly between D1 and D2/3, so he's a grey area. It would help a lot to clear him up. I think you would be a good investigation target because, however townish you seem right now, DO's push for the Spring lynch could still be significant. Those are only my two initial thoughts though; if you can think of better targets for investigation, by all means present them.

[Ice9]

Something is very, very wrong with these claims.

It could very well be massclaim time after all of this.

[don_johnson]

@don - Whoa there. What exactly makes you think I'm suggesting a no-lynch?

your plan was devoid of a lynch choice. never said you were "suggesting" a no-lynch. asked you a question to clarify exactly what it was you were trying to say.

Something is very, very wrong with these claims.

yes. sekinj is lying. why would she not address the issue of night 1's investigation?

[Rhinox]

@don - Whoa there. What exactly makes you think I'm suggesting a no-lynch?

@Rhinox - I mentioned Goat because his play has changed significantly between D1 and D2/3, so he's a grey area. It would help a lot to clear him up. I think you would be a good investigation target because, however townish you seem right now, DO's push for the Spring lynch could still be significant. Those are only my two initial thoughts though; if you can think of better targets for investigation, by all means present them.

Any of the unclaimed players at this point would make good targets - there isn't really anyone I would call "definately town" right now.

Beyond that, if scum know exactly who is going to be investigated, they will be able to take measures to minimize the damage. For example, suppose a town player is set to be investigated. Wouldn't supprise me if that player was the nk.

Regarding the other night actions, there is no chain of best choices that can save all 3 If they're all town. If we're working off the assumption that they're all town, best scenario would be spring protects don watches spring, and sacrifice sekinj to the nk. Thats the only way to guarentee 2 survive to endgame.

If we're assuming any 1 of them are scum, then my preferred choice of action would be to leave unwatched/unprotected the player who is most likely scum out of the 3. 3 scenarios:

1) If we feel don is more likely scum:

don

watches

spring

protects

sekinj

investegates whoever. If don's scum, he won't die.

2) If spring is most likely scum:

spring

protects

don

watches

sekinj

investigates whoever.

3) If sekinj is most likely scum, then don and spring watch/protect each other and sekinj investigates whoever.

But we're still a ways from that point though... Theres discussion to be had now, and one of those 3 may end up being lynched yet.

[sekinj]

when i have replaced into games, mods give me information pertinent to the role i am replacing, though i have not been in your position(investigative) i do know that info should be passed on. also, you didn't mention that you "did not have" the information before. also, if you didn't have the information and you replacxed in as cop, why would you wait until after you have claimed to pm the mod and ask him who you investigated night 1? seriously?

vote: sekinj

nice try.

I didn't wait, and I never said I did. the mod told me right away that plonky didn't investigate anyone. I don't see hwo it is a big deal that I didn't include a null investigate in my original claim post.

[sekinj]

you mis-understood me, don. I wasn't saying that I "did not have" any information about who was investigate night 1. I was was saying that there was no information to share about it, no one was investigated, so I didn't think it important to share a null fact in my first claim post. I knew the question would come up and I woudl asnwer in the next few posts... I still dont' understand why you believe that to be so important. [wifom] if i was fake claiming, and had been setting it up from yesterday when I mentioned a godfather, don't you think I would have pat answers to everything and have included anything I could think of to be more believeable in my very first post? [/wifom]

[sekinj]

Rhinox - I disagree with your options based on who might be scum, that is not the best way to decide what course of action we should take tonight.

Spring will be the auto target tonight since there is no one to protect her. If she survives til tomorrow then her alignment is questionable. that said, with 2 investigative roles, we may not be able to avoid a dead doc, but we could at least come back with information from both don and I.

Here is what I think of the options:

1)

don watches spring, spring protects me, and I investigate someone.

This uses all of our abilities to the best advantage

2)

don watches me, spring protects don, I investigate someone

spring will still die, and since no one is watching her, we will come back with my info, but no new info from don.

3)

don watches spring and spring protects don.

I will die and we will have no new information tomorrow, just a surviving doc.

i obv think option 1 is our best bet.

[sekinj]

EBWOP: Option 1 gives us a dead doc, but a piece of information from both don and myself.

[Ice9]

Vote: don_johnson

If you ignore his claim, which is now EXTREMELY questionable given the appearance of another claimed investigative role, then his actions surrounding the early budja wagon become extremely damning.

Spring protects sekinj tonight, and my opinion is that sek should investigate one of {Spolium, Rhinox}, but in the end its up to her.

[sekinj]

If you ignore his claim, which is now EXTREMELY questionable given the appearance of another claimed investigative role, then his actions surrounding the early budja wagon become extremely damning.

qft. and he seems to be very hung up on the details of when i posted what, which i dont' understand.

[Rhinox]

You assume too much, sekinj.

Option 1 means if don and spring are both honest, don will be killed tonight with no consequences, leaving spring to be killed tomorrow. The plus side is that gives you 2 free investigations IF you're telling the truth. Obviously, this option is best if we think don is more likely scum of the 3. Don wouldn't be able to be nked if he's scum, meaning spring couldn't be killed without being watched (or fake watched in worst case scenario), and you couldn't be nked.

Option 2 means yes, spring dies first, followed by don, if they're both honest. Again, you get 2 investigations. This is best if we think spring is lying. Spring then couldn't be nked, and if don were nked, it would prove spring was scum. You *could* be killed, but we would get a watch result from don.

Option 3 means you die if you're being honest, but if you don't die, it would probably prove you are scum. Of course this option is used in the situation where we think you are most likely lying, and don and spring would be perpetually safe until endgame unless scum sac's one of their own to kill spring.

Your assumption that spring is the auto target tonight is false. A doc is not as powerful as you seem to think it is, especially when compared to the other potential PRs of cop and watcher.

If all 3 of you are being honest, then at least 2, or maybe even 3 of this list are scum: Goat, Ice, Lynx, RC, Rhinox, and Spolium. Of this list, Lynx gets a pass for now due to the innocent result. I know I'm not scum. I want to look mostly at Goat and Spolium. Ice and RC both seem very town to me, but I'm a conspiracy nut - I worry I'm being played by RC.

@Ice: There has got to be more than just DJ-scum remaining, if DJ is scum. However, if DJ is being honest about his claim and we lynch him, that leaves spring unwatched tonight.

Why not leave DJ alive to watch spring just in case he's being honest? I would then condone following through with the rest of option 1.

[Rhinox]

Actually, now that I think about it, if you add in at the end of option 1 that sekinj investigates don, then thats a pretty tight loop - sekinj can't be killed, and would learn weather or not don is scum. That way if spring dies, we would know whether or not he was giving us honest watch results.

If all 3 are telling the truth, we're golden. If just 1 is lying, they either have to play along, or sacrifice 1 of their own to kill 1 of the the 2 honest PRs. If 2 are lying, however, the town is in a position to get played big time.

[RedCoyote]

I will not be apart of any lynch involving any of the claimed roles, saying that right now. I will not have any part in lynching don, sekinj, or spring. I'll give a better post later but I was just checking this thread because I'm on the Internet right now.

I'm going to

vote: Goatrevolt

to hopefully get him in here to discuss what's going on, to get him to give his damn opinion before everyone else has, for a change and I will leave it at that.

[sekinj]

Actually, now that I think about it, if you add in at the end of option 1 that sekinj investigates don, then thats a pretty tight loop - sekinj can't be killed, and would learn weather or not don is scum. That way if spring dies, we would know whether or not he was giving us honest watch results.

If all 3 are telling the truth, we're golden. If just 1 is lying, they either have to play along, or sacrifice 1 of their own to kill 1 of the the 2 honest PRs. If 2 are lying, however, the town is in a position to get played big time.

I think this is a good idea (unless I'm insane). It is trading off two questionable results for one solid result. But if you are right and spring is not the auto lynch, wouldn't scum jsut lynch don in this scenario and spoil it all?

[sekinj]

Mod: I again plead for a deadline extension

We have much to discuss and I know spring will want to go crazy on my when she gets back... Plus I'm going to have sporatic internet access on Saturday.

[Spolium]

never said you were "suggesting" a no-lynch.

but i am wary that my second choice for lynch seems to be suggesting a "no-lynch"

[sekinj]

@RC - if goat isn't reading the thread, your pressure vote isn't doing any good. maybe you are stalling...

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Hey everybody I'm gonna politely ask you all to STOP for a second and listen.

Heres a real shocker: I'm the

COP

not Sekinj. Thats right it's a counterclaim.

Now listen I've been skeptical of all these claims for most of the game. It just seemed like to much firepower with two docs, a watcher, and knowing myself to be a cop. Now Sekinj claiming cop just pushes that way past overkill.

She most likely claimed cop because

1. There was already an investigative role in a watcher so she probably doubted there'd be a cop.
2. There already have been many power roles outed so she most likely thought that was all of them.
3. She had plonky's inactivity to avoid giving two investigation results.
4. She's been the top lynch candidate for awhile now with relatively no one else that close. A power role claim was the only way to save herself really from a deadline lynch.
5. Since there were two docs if countered she could argue that there are possibly two cops as well with different sanities.

Now as for my investigation results.

Night one I investigated Jebus. Hence why I completely believed his claim over Springs. Also why I classified him as gut read town. I didn't want to completely flat out say I thought he was town and make my role blatantly obvious.

Night 2 investigation Rhinox: Innocent. Yup Rhinox is town. My sanity isn't too much in doubt since my results were correct about Jebus.

Now I don't buy a possibilty of two cops and certainly don't buy Sekinj's claim. She is scum and should definitely be lynched today.


We still have to go over the claim potential actions tonight. I'm skeptical about Don's claim however I still think planning this out can be useful.

I think both Spring and Don should randomize their abilities 50/50. For example, Spring randomly chooses either me or Don to protect. Don does the same. This way scum have to take a 50% risk of either getting their kill blocked or watched. All the while I clear another town. Yes, theres a risk and good chance one of us may die, but then scum would have to take a huge chance to take one of us down. This all depends on the three of us telling the truth though.

Now one of these two could be lying about their role of course. So we should discuss what the most effective plan would be to utilize tonight. I like my random method.

No one put her back at L-1 in case she decides to self hammer and end the day and end discussion!