Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[sekinj]

ok. thanks Tony.

Then I'm not certian why I got an innocent, and you got a not guilty. mayb you are trying to frame me....

[Spolium]

She claimed she was blocked. To me that fairly clearly means she was targeted by a roleblocking action. I don't see how it could be interpreted differently.

Let me make this clear: I am

not

trying to interpret it in any way other than "Spring roleblocked sekinj" (I'm taking that as a given for now).

I'm asking you why you assumed that "sekinj was informed" about the roleblock (i.e. was told "

you were roleblocked

", as opposed to assuming a roleblock due to a lack of result). I want to know this because it is directly relevant to your

Spolium's NK was blocked by Spring

hypothesis.

I'd also like you to answer this question properly:

if I was scum attempting a NK on N1, what reason would I have to think I was being roleblocked, as opposed to the target being protected?

[don_johnson]

I agree that the mafia probably has multiple roleblockers.

then you must think spring is scum, no?

Whether the block came from a role blocker targeting me, or from somthing in ice's role that caused me to get no result, the fact is something blocked me, so that is what I said.

because the result of my investigation seemed like I was blocked.

I was not informed of being roleblocked. I gathered that from the supporting evidence. My PM said I investigated Ice but I was not successful and returned no result.

And I was blocked. So we have nothing new on the cops. I tried to look at ice.

so you are now saying that you don't know whether or not you were blocked, yet you believe there to be two scum roleblockers?

so do you think it is suspicious of goat to think you were "informed" of being blocked, considering you stated in thread "i was blocked"?

it seems to me that you are trying to backtrack and cast suspicion on others by changing your story after the fact.

were you blocked or not? you have given no definitive answer here. if not, then why do you believe there to be two scum roleblockers?

vote: sekinj

[sekinj]

you are reaching don. I was blocked. goat misunderstood so I explained it in more detail. If you haven't figured this out already I'm not caught up in the semantics. I'm not suspicious of goat for mis-understanding.

just because I think there are mafia roleblockers does not mean to think spring is one of them. I think she is a paranoid doc. however...

Thoguht: Tony has emphasized several times that we should not discuss the poems in the PMs and that they are for flavor only. Spring is currently "confirmed" because of the similarities between her and Jebus's poem. Maybe Tony is trying to tell us we should throw that out? or maybe we are too close to the truth...

[sekinj]

if I was scum attempting a NK on N1, what reason would I have to think I was being roleblocked, as opposed to the target being protected?

because spring claimed and said she "protected" you. so you realized that spring's protection results in a block.

[don_johnson]

you are reaching don. I was blocked. goat misunderstood so I explained it in more detail. If you haven't figured this out already I'm not caught up in the semantics. I'm not suspicious of goat for mis-understanding.

sorry, but when you qft someone's points it makes me think you are agreeing with them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sekinj was informed about being roleblocked or is lying (doubtful)

What makes you say this? Sekinj never said that she was informed of being roleblocked.

qft

okay now this:

just because I think there are mafia roleblockers does not mean to think spring is one of them. I think she is a paranoid doc. however...

Thoguht: Tony has emphasized several times that we should not discuss the poems in the PMs and that they are for flavor only. Spring is currently "confirmed" because of the similarities between her and Jebus's poem. Maybe Tony is trying to tell us we should throw that out? or maybe we are too close to the truth...

so do you or do you not think spring is a mafia roleblocker? it is hard to tell what you mean when you say one thing and then throw out a sideays accusation like this.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: should read "sideways".

if you believe spring to be paranoid doc, why do you think there is a mafia roleblocker when noone has claimed to be roleblocked but you(sorry, you didn't claim to be blocked, you just said it and meant that you got no result which led you to believe you were blocked)?

[sekinj]

(sorry, you didn't claim to be blocked, you just said it and meant that you got no result which led you to believe you were blocked)?

exactly.

[don_johnson]

(sorry, you didn't claim to be blocked, you just said it and meant that you got no result which led you to believe you were blocked)?

exactly.

you are not answering any questions here. even if i accept your bullshit backtracking excuse, your current suspicions make no sense. please explain yourself.

[sekinj]

I was agreeing with spoilum that I never said, "I was informed that I was roleblocked."

I'm not suspicious of goat for misunderstanding, after the discussion between goat and spoilum I can see how "I was blocked" would need clarification. but see, I don't give clarification until someone asks for it because I don't always know when something needs clarification until it is pointed out.

My power was blocked by something causing me to get a no result....

if you believe spring to be paranoid doc, why do you think there is a mafia roleblocker when noone has claimed to be roleblocked but you

If someone is mafia and is lying about their role, why would they say they were a roleblocker, when the only other known role blocker was mafia? woukdn't they just say "I'm 'nilla". I'm assuming the mafia is lying about the role claim, which I dont' think is too much of a stretch.

so do you or do you not think spring is a mafia roleblocker? it is hard to tell what you mean when you say one thing and then throw out a sideays accusation like this.

I thought of that while I was typing. I'd like to get other's feedback on that.

[sekinj]

(sorry, you didn't claim to be blocked, you just said it and meant that you got no result which led you to believe you were blocked)?

exactly.

you are not answering any questions here. even if i accept your bullshit backtracking excuse, your current suspicions make no sense. please explain yourself.

was workign on it

[sekinj]

and I'm not backtracking. how is clarification backtracking? spring has the same misconception of clarifying. just because you misunderstood me the first time doesn't mean my additional explaination is backtracking

[don_johnson]

My power was blocked by something causing me to get a no result....

please paraphrase your results pm.

if you believe spring to be paranoid doc, why do you think there is a mafia roleblocker when noone has claimed to be roleblocked but you

If someone is mafia and is lying about their role, why would they say they were a roleblocker, when the only other known role blocker was mafia? woukdn't they just say "I'm 'nilla". I'm assuming the mafia is lying about the role claim, which I dont' think is too much of a stretch.

you are avoiding the question or misunderstanding it. if there is a mafia roleblocker then they would have targeted someone. you are the only person who is claiming to be "blocked". spring targeted you and you say you believe she is a paranoid doc. where's the roleblocker? who did they target? your suspicions don't add up.

[don_johnson]

you said " i was blocked". someone drawing the conclusion that "you were blocked" is not a case of the second party misunderstanding. it is a case of the first party misspeaking.

[sekinj]

you said " i was blocked". someone drawing the conclusion that "you were blocked" is not a case of the second party misunderstanding. it is a case of the first party misspeaking.

pov

[sekinj]

My power was blocked by something causing me to get a no result....

please paraphrase your results pm.

I already did.

if you believe spring to be paranoid doc, why do you think there is a mafia roleblocker when noone has claimed to be roleblocked but you

If someone is mafia and is lying about their role, why would they say they were a roleblocker, when the only other known role blocker was mafia? woukdn't they just say "I'm 'nilla". I'm assuming the mafia is lying about the role claim, which I dont' think is too much of a stretch.

you are avoiding the question or misunderstanding it. if there is a mafia roleblocker then they would have targeted someone. you are the only person who is claiming to be "blocked". spring targeted you and you say you believe she is a paranoid doc. where's the roleblocker? who did they target? your suspicions don't add up.

[/quote]
a paranoid doc stops someone from using their power while protecting them, correct? in terms of flavor, the paranoid doc locks someone in their office preventing them from leaving which results in them being protected and not being able to use their power... That is how she blocked me and protected me. or am I not understanding what a paranoid doc is?

[sekinj]

I was not informed of being roleblocked. I gathered that from the supporting evidence.

My PM said I investigated Ice but I was not successful and returned no result.

the bold above is my paraphrased PM.

[don_johnson]

a paranoid doc stops someone from using their power while protecting them, correct? in terms of flavor, the paranoid doc locks someone in their office preventing them from leaving which results in them being protected and not being able to use their power... That is how she blocked me and protected me. or am I not understanding what a paranoid doc is?

*facepalm*

WHERE"S THE FUCKING MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE EXISTS IF YOU ALSO BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE "BLOCKED" BY A PARANOID DOC? NOONE ELSE HAS CLAIMED TO BE ROLEBLOCKED. WHY DO YOU EVEN THINK ANOTHER MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER EXISTS?

[sekinj]

a paranoid doc stops someone from using their power while protecting them, correct? in terms of flavor, the paranoid doc locks someone in their office preventing them from leaving which results in them being protected and not being able to use their power... That is how she blocked me and protected me. or am I not understanding what a paranoid doc is?

*facepalm*

WHERE"S THE FUCKING MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE EXISTS IF YOU ALSO BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE "BLOCKED" BY A PARANOID DOC? NOONE ELSE HAS CLAIMED TO BE ROLEBLOCKED. WHY DO YOU EVEN THINK ANOTHER MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER EXISTS?

Oh... I see what you are saying...

I was just thinking about another rb because we have so many power roles...

but you are saying all other roles got results, so either spring is a mafia rb, the mafia rb targetted a vanilla (unlikely), or there is no mafia rb....

[sekinj]

lol

[TonyMontana]

Vote Count

Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum
He who smelt it, dealt it.

L-2

sekjin

(2) Rhinox, don_johnson
L-3

spolium

(1) goatrevolt

Not Voting: (4) Ice9, sekjin, spolium, springlullaby

With 7 people alive, it takes

4 votes to lynch

[Goatrevolt]

Why claim "I was blocked" if you weren't certain that was the case???

because the result of my investigation seemed like I was blocked.

If I was lying, wouldn't I jsut come back and say, you're right, it said I was roleblocked. There's no reason for me to go against the grain now if I am lying. (wifom I know)

After spring claimed to target you, and would be the only logical player capable of blocking, no, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. It's not really WIFOM either.

If you had the option of 2 or 3, which one would you say? "I was blocked" or "there may be something with ice's role that makes me get no result"

The one that is far more likely and obvious. Roleblocked.

Plus - saying "I was blocked" does not exclude your option 3. Whether the block came from a role blocker targeting me, or from somthing in ice's role that caused me to get no result, the fact is something blocked me, so that is what I said.

That's basically just trying to stretch semantics to fit. Blocked in this game implies roleblocked.

She claimed she was blocked. To me that fairly clearly means she was targeted by a roleblocking action. I don't see how it could be interpreted differently.

Let me make this clear: I am

not

trying to interpret it in any way other than "Spring roleblocked sekinj" (I'm taking that as a given for now).

I'm asking you why you assumed that "sekinj was informed" about the roleblock (i.e. was told "

you were roleblocked

", as opposed to assuming a roleblock due to a lack of result). I want to know this because it is directly relevant to your

Spolium's NK was blocked by Spring

hypothesis.

I'd also like you to answer this question properly:

if I was scum attempting a NK on N1, what reason would I have to think I was being roleblocked, as opposed to the target being protected?

What's the difference in distinction between Spolium tried to make a kill and had it fail by either protect/roleblock and Spolium was informed he was blocked when the conclusion is the same? - Spolium: Scum. Failed at killing someone night 1. I have a thought here, but I want to hear your answer to that first.

I thought Sekinj was informed she was blocked. If that was the case, my assumption is that you would have also been informed you were blocked if you tried to make a kill. In other words: Sekinj targeted by spring, tried to perform action, was informed she was roleblocked compared to: Spolium targeted by spring, tried to perform action, was informed he was roleblocked.

just because I think there are mafia roleblockers does not mean to think spring is one of them. I think she is a paranoid doc. however...

This makes no sense:

You think there are multiple scum roleblockers, but you think Spring is a paranoid doc? Where is the information leading you to believe a 2nd roleblocker is coming from in that case, if you don't necessarily think it's Spring? Nobody else has claimed to have been blocked, so there's no physical evidence of another non-Spring roleblocker. Explain?

Thoguht: Tony has emphasized several times that we should not discuss the poems in the PMs and that they are for flavor only. Spring is currently "confirmed" because of the similarities between her and Jebus's poem. Maybe Tony is trying to tell us we should throw that out? or maybe we are too close to the truth...

That's not at all the reason I have Spring as town. Is this the reason everyone else has her chalked up as town? Why?

[springlullaby]

Un-organized and un-complete speculations are to cease, they are pointless.

One proper method to deal with the setup speculation part of the job, which at no time should encroach on scumhunting, is to assume that one person is lying and confront the hypothesis with the data, then do this systematically for all players and see if it reveals anything interesting.

I'll do it when I'm not lazy.

In meantime.

@Goat, no kill on N1 because of spolium being jailed is a possibility, but it is not usable as an increment to Spolium's culpability as there is no evidence that it the likeliest hypothesis amongst alternative scenarii. You using this argument to convict Spolium is indeed crappy, and you not recognizing that is indeed scummy. Agree/disagree?

On sekinj and jailkeeping: my being a jailkeeper/rb is merely a possibility amongst other possibility. I feel that people latching/not latching on this tidbit may possibility interesting to explore, I'm to lazy to do it now, because other equal possibles are a) sekinj lying b) my targeting her having nothing to do in the reported result.

Anyway, I don't want to do the thinking now. Later.

[Goatrevolt]

@Goat, no kill on N1 because of spolium being jailed is a possibility, but it is not usable as an increment to Spolium's culpability as there is no evidence that it the likeliest hypothesis amongst alternative scenarii. You using this argument to convict Spolium is indeed crappy, and you not recognizing that is indeed scummy. Agree/disagree?

Where am I using this argument to convict Spolium?

My post:

And I was blocked. So we have nothing new on the cops. I tried to look at ice.

That would mean Spring is probably a jailkeeper. That adds another possible reason for the lack of kill night 1. Spolium tried to make the kill and was blocked.

Point it out.

[Spolium]

What's the difference in distinction between Spolium tried to make a kill and had it fail by either protect/roleblock and Spolium was informed he was blocked when the conclusion is the same? - Spolium: Scum. Failed at killing someone night 1.

This does not address my point in any way whatsoever. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Let's put it this way; your hypothesis relies on the idea that scum-Spolium realised that he was being roleblocked. Therein lies the problem - you do not adequately explain why scum-Spolium would be inclined to believe that he was being roleblocked over his target being protected (instead of just targeting someone else, which would've resulted in no kill N2).

I thought Sekinj was informed she was blocked. If that was the case, my assumption is that you would have also been informed you were blocked if you tried to make a kill. In other words: Sekinj targeted by spring, tried to perform action, was informed she was roleblocked compared to: Spolium targeted by spring, tried to perform action, was informed he was roleblocked.

That's all well and good, but you still haven't answered my question.

Why

did you think sekinj was informed that she was blocked, when she did not confirm this? Why did you attack me instead of clarifying the facts with sekinj first? It seems more like you were looking for an excuse to push for votes on me than to sincerely consider the consequences of sekinj being roleblocked by Spring.