Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[springlullaby]

Do your guys have a point? You especially sekinj, is your 799 supposed to be sarcastic of something?

If you have something to ask me do it when I'm here.

I'll get one good analysis post before going.

[sekinj]

yeah, it was sarcastic of something.

I can't say I will be sad to see you replaced. I have not liked your play or attitude in this game, although your role is important.

[springlullaby]

I will not raise to that.

[sekinj]

because you know it's true

[springlullaby]

No it is not. I have contributed relevantly to this game. I have been amiable and respectful in my play, even though when people had been not respectful toward me, because I'm actually trying to play a game. And I certainly have not had the presumption of telling other people how they should play.

So sekinj, this is your limit. If you have a relevant criticism to make, make it.

[sekinj]

my limit, huh? I'm not trying to tell you how to play... I'm simply saying that you should play. Lurking through most of the last two days is not helpful. I don't buy the excuses you've made for it. If all our power roles just sat in the background and tried not to get lynched, the town would lose every time.

I hope you don't keep the same playstyle if I am in a future game with you.

[springlullaby]

Dear sekinj, I have done more scumhunting than you despite my 'lurking'.

[sekinj]

Dear sl: you wouldn't know.

[springlullaby]

Lol ok. What do you call scumhunting then? Because I see none from you.

[sekinj]

I'm not going to discuss an ongoing game with someone who is not participating in it.

[Rhinox]

Sorry for the absence... its been a busy week.

Here's what I think.

Firstly, neither Spolium or SL should be the lynch choice today - 1 of them was successfully protected N1, and with more than 1 scum remaining it seems like smart play to hunt for other scum, even IF one of spolium or SL are scum. I think its very likely SL was protected.

Who I do think we need to look at under a microscope is Don. First reason, why wouldn't a watcher watch a claimed doc N1, assuming that the claimed doc would be the likely nk target? OK, so don gives us the explanation that he confused watcher with tracker, but should I count ignorance as an acceptable explanation?

Second reason is a bit of wifom, but worth mentioning: Why would scum target jebus? If I were scum, I would assume that even a best case scenario, the kill would fail due to protection from the other doc. Worst case scenario, a scum would be caught making the kill by the watcher. To me, this seems like a textbook example where scum should've tried to kill someone who had no chance of being protected or watched, unless the scum knows that don is not a watcher.

Lets look at some numbers. I'm assuming, of course, that don would always pick one of the 2 claimed docs to watch. If he flipped a coin to pick, that means there was a 50% chance scum would be found. Add in the other doc to the calculation. Say SL picked either don or jebus to protect randomly and here is the complete breakdown:

25% - failed kill, no watch.
25% - successful kill, watched.
25% - failed kill, watched.
25% - Successful kill, no watch.

3 of those scenarios hurt the scum - only a 25% chance of scum getting a positive result based on choosing to kill 1 of the docs. Is the risk worth the reward? I don't think so. Should we just assume scum got lucky on a calculated risk, or was there no risk because don is scum and was told to say he watched SL?

And the rest:
Goat
fhq-reincarnate
Lynx
RC
sekinj

of those 5, I'm most concerned about sekinj, and I need to get a read on Goat and the new and improved FHQ. I'll post some thoughts about sekinj later tonight or this weekend.

[TonyMontana]

Rawr, what's with the catfight? (Seriously, drop it)

[springlullaby]

I'm not going to discuss an ongoing game with someone who is not participating in it.

Ok, I've had enough.

Vote sekinj.

Please see sekinj's post history.

1. A hardly justified vote on Jebus when she came into the game.

2. filler posts thorough Day 2.

3. Pointless pestering and smartass comments when out of justification fits her scum meta: see C9++
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0


And yes this is me scumhunting.

[springlullaby]

Actually no.

MOD:

I demand modkill of sekinj.

I hope you don't keep the same playstyle if I am in a future game with you.

This kind of comments are against the rule about no vendettas, and no bringing games outside of the game spirit. It is also blatantly antigame and it intervenes after you have warned her once.

I demand modkill.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

This is seriously ridiculous. Spring your vote on Sekinj seems motivated by this feud more than the game. Please don't suggest a modkill because they're not fun for anyone playing. If anything replacements are necessary. One of you maybe.

From a completely none-game related view point maybe you should replace out, Spring. You're going to be gone for basically the entire day 3 anyway(Our deadline's the 19th). And it this feud between you two would be put to rest. Better than a modkill pn anybody.

Back to the game, Rhinox I definitely see merit in your points against Don. I've had a strange feeling against him ever since he claimed. I feel his play has largely changed since the claim. His hunting has slipped and I'd like to hear his thoughts.

[springlullaby]

This is seriously ridiculous. Spring your vote on Sekinj seems motivated by this feud more than the game. Please don't suggest a modkill because they're not fun for anyone playing. If anything replacements are necessary. One of you maybe.

From a completely none-game related view point maybe you should replace out, Spring. You're going to be gone for basically the entire day 3 anyway(Our deadline's the 19th). And it this feud between you two would be put to rest. Better than a modkill pn anybody.

Back to the game, Rhinox I definitely see merit in your points against Don. I've had a strange feeling against him ever since he claimed. I feel his play has largely changed since the claim. His hunting has slipped and I'd like to hear his thoughts.

I won't allow you to dismiss my vote on sekinj as feud.

1. Describe what you don't agree with in my motives to vote her.

2. Explain what you see as town in her play.

---------------------------------

I will not replace out of the game. The accusation made against me are the ridiculous ones. I did play this game and did contribute even if I choose to play it in an unusual manner. And I did contribute more than many others.

[springlullaby]

And to make it clear, my modkill demand is serious and is separate from my case against sekinj.

I demand modkill regardless of her alignment.

[don_johnson]

Theoretically we could do some sort of protection daisy chain of all of them, spring protects Jebus, Jebus protects don, and don watches spring.

We would be sacrificing don's investigative use for more of a protective one, but that should keep all of them alive if they're all being truthful.

^^^ i thought this was the plan. it made the most sense. i considered reversing it, but i wanted to be sure we were all protected. i have no idea why SL is protecting spolium.

linx: how has my hunting "slipped"? what exactly has changed in my playstyle? mafia is a dynamic game and change is inevitable, so unless you can point to something specific and relevant i suggest you focus on something more productive.

as i said before, i was most suspicious of the end of the wagon on day 1. budja's lynch seemed a bit inevitable and i think our "bus" votes are there at the end. i want to read some players in isolation before i cast a vote today. my apologies that rl has been demanding my attention.

no to modkill, but yes to catfight!

[TonyMontana]

I take back what i said, I find this highly amusing now :p

All requests for modkills and replacements denied

Run along, children, and

play

[sekinj]

SL I think you shoudl be modkilled for not dropping it when the mod said too. that's a much more clear violation than asking you to be a better player in future games (now how is that a violation again?)

In any case, I only said something because I ASSUMED that OF COURSE you would be replaced since you were going to be gone that long... but then, now that I think about it, you being V/LA is exactly like you being here, so I can see why the mod isn't worried about replacing you.

[sekinj]

And to make it clear, my modkill demand is serious and is separate from my case against sekinj.

I demand modkill regardless of her alignment.

You want to alter the outcome of the game for your personal vendetta? You notice how I have been saying ALL ALONG that I hate your play (or lack thereof) in this game, yet I believe you are the doc, and therefore, shouldn't be lynched? I'm not sure how much townier you want me to be. Of Course, if I was scum I could come up with some crap reason to vote you like... oh! not helping the town! but no, I've been defending you, and trying to keep your role in the game in order to help the town.

[sekinj]

2. filler posts thorough Day 2.
<snip>
3. Pointless pestering and smartass comments when out of justification fits her scum meta: see C9++
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Oh! and you can also check out this SAME game for how Spring acts when she is town. Funny how it is completely different than in this game...

see? I can throw crap logic around as well. That doesn't make it true.

[Goatrevolt]

I protected spolium because my sanity is in doubt and N1 protection had no adverse effect. That's the correct play for doubtful sanity doc. I certainly wouldn't have protected Jebus in case i'm a quack, killing the doc and framing myself in the process.

How would targeting Spolium a 2nd time tell you anything? Or are you saying you deliberately were uninterested in learning more? If you were worried about your doc save killing someone, why not target Lynx?

Goat, I don't understand why spolium. He is like 50/50 to me, and lynx is much scummier in my book.

Lynx was one of my "most likely to be town" players at the end of day 1. I don't remember much of his day 2 play, but it wasn't anything that struck me as outright scummy. I'll take a look back at his play, regardless.

I'm considering a me lynch because 1. seeing my sanity flip might be helpful 2. i'm VLA 6th to 17 april.

How would seeing your sanity flip be helpful? What info would that give us?

Goat, whenever you get the chance, don't forget about your promise to show us why Spolium is your number one target.

Yep, coming tonight.

Actually no.

MOD:

I demand modkill of sekinj.

I hope you don't keep the same playstyle if I am in a future game with you.

This kind of comments are against the rule about no vendettas, and no bringing games outside of the game spirit. It is also blatantly antigame and it intervenes after you have warned her once.

I demand modkill.

????

That's quite a stretch. Hoping you don't maintain the same playstyle is a far cry from a vendetta.

Firstly, neither Spolium or SL should be the lynch choice today - 1 of them was successfully protected N1, and with more than 1 scum remaining it seems like smart play to hunt for other scum, even IF one of spolium or SL are scum. I think its very likely SL was protected.

I think Spolium should be on the table. I don't see how we will ever know for sure who was successfully protected night 1, but if we are to assume a successful save was made, then I would hedge bets on it being Spring saved, not Spolium.

It's either, Spring was shot, Spolium was shot, or the scum no-killed. If Spring is town, I don't think Spolium would have been shot at over her. If Spring is scum, then there wouldn't have been a failed kill attempt on Spolium, because Spring's claim to protect Spolium would either coincide with a scum kill on a different target or a no-kill to verify role. There is almost no chance Spolium was a successful save from a scum kill night 1. The only possible way this is true is if both Spolium and spring are town, and the scum decided to shoot Spolium over Spring. That is unlikely enough of a scenario to not impact the lynch decision.

Second reason is a bit of wifom, but worth mentioning: Why would scum target jebus? If I were scum, I would assume that even a best case scenario, the kill would fail due to protection from the other doc. Worst case scenario, a scum would be caught making the kill by the watcher. To me, this seems like a textbook example where scum should've tried to kill someone who had no chance of being protected or watched, unless the scum knows that don is not a watcher.

Hmm...This is a good thought. Shooting Jebus was quite a risk for scum if both Don and Spring are town. The question then is, was the reward enough to justify the risk for scum or is one of those two scum, thus lowering the risk?

Lets look at some numbers. I'm assuming, of course, that don would always pick one of the 2 claimed docs to watch. If he flipped a coin to pick, that means there was a 50% chance scum would be found. Add in the other doc to the calculation. Say SL picked either don or jebus to protect randomly and here is the complete breakdown:

25% - failed kill, no watch.
25% - successful kill, watched.
25% - failed kill, watched.
25% - Successful kill, no watch.

3 of those scenarios hurt the scum - only a 25% chance of scum getting a positive result based on choosing to kill 1 of the docs. Is the risk worth the reward? I don't think so. Should we just assume scum got lucky on a calculated risk, or was there no risk because don is scum and was told to say he watched SL?

The number's don't really work out. You're assuming that don was going to choose Spring or Jebus 50/50, and that the doc's would likewise choose 50/50 whether to protect the other doc or the watcher. If Don is to be believed with his results, then neither doc protected the other.

This doesn't take into account that the docs didn't necessarily have to protect the other doc, and that don could have possibly watched a non-doc.

I'd argue it's more like 40%, but regardless, I agree with your overall point. Either the scum make a high-risk high-reward play in shooting Jebus, or it was a lower risk play by virtue of Don/spring being scum. I'm not sure if we can really determine which one it is based on numbers alone, considering if Don/spring/jebus are all town then scum would be in the kind of situation where they might be forced to take a high-risk play like this.

[sekinj]

I think the scum gambled on choosing Jebus. Think about it... a plan was outlined that would save everyone (just outlined, not decided on, no one bound anyone to it). But, If there was one player who you thought was the greatest chance of NOT going with that plan, and would instead "do their own thing," Who would it be?

[wifom] The moral is, if I were the scum, I would have targeted Jebus on the chance that Spring was going to go do her own thing and not follow the plan discussed[/wifom]

[springlullaby]

No. I have tolerated your pointless behaviour during early day 2 with patience. You have been warned for it once already, and I let it slip by because I am actually trying to play a game and refuse this kind of disgusting display. But today you engaged in it again.

My announcing VLA is basic courtesy, and is more than can be said of many a player who did not post for long stretches of time without saying a word. It also permits the mod to find replacement if necessary.

Your comment was out of place of offensive, and designed to be.

It is also inaccurate: you accused me of not participating.

This is a scummy mispresentation, I did participate.

You accused me of not scumhunting.

This is also a scummy misrepresentation, because I did scumhunt. Which cannot be said of you.

I don't see a reason town you would make such offensive, false accusations and I think you are scum antagonizing me on purpose, trying to use appeal to emotion.