Mini 610: Ace Attorney Mafia - Game Over!!

[Mirth]

Any particular reason you're expressing sympathy? She a scum buddy of yours?

Also,

not at all random vote: theopor_COD

. Hi, Theo, didn't actually notice you were in this game until like just now. This should be interesting ^_^

[Mirth]

Yet her being the defendant doesn't automatically mean that she will be the lynch for the day, so maybe i'm just being too skeptical, but your sympathy seems a bit forced.

[Mirth]

This is gonna be one crazy game mechanic. If we have two scum in the jury at any one time, we cannot get a scumlynch unless the defendant is scum. I'm hoping that somewhere in the juror selection is a way to avoid that, but if not this is gonna be hell for town.

Hi all. This is a good post but it would be pretty hard for scum N1 to defend his partner, if he's heavily suspected, without bringing suspicions to his ass.
What happens with the other guys that arent jurys? They are like useless townies?

No, see above for the voting conditions. (As it is possible to lynch someone on the jury)

And this game mechanic is going to be crazy regardless of whether or not there is scum on the jury, because while this game still calls for a majority lynch, the majority is preselected. Trying to convince 7 people of anything is hard enough when its any 7 of 12.

[Mirth]

Yeah, this is gonna be tough, but we just gotta be observant and play like normal, and we'll manage.

Ya know, this post bothers me. Not quite sure why...

[Mirth]

So is the no apparent reason because I'm the only one who voted, my vote isn't random, or just cause im being contrary? Or did you actually roll dice?

[Mirth]

I'm confused at Joubert's vote.

Wow, Natrasha's first post isnt antitown.

I don't have a vote to vote myself with.

That explains it.
Ok, we have to get this thing moving.
Could you all answer these questions? (Conversation FTW)
1. What do you think of this setup?
2. Is this game tough for town?
3. Is Mirth town or scum? Yes, no, I dont know?

Actually Natirasha, you do. It just doesn't count much.

as to the questions.
1. It's weird
2. Maybe. Depends on how the defendant is picked.
3. I don't know, its page frakking one, a bit too early to be having that discussion, dontya think? Maybe I'll have some semblance of an idea on page 5...oh wait, I'm talking about myself...in that case, I'm not telling, so at you!

[Mirth]

3. Attacking someone for sympathizing with the default lynch is unhelpful, but I'm reserving judgment.

This statement seems forced.

a) note my actual comment about sympathizing. (You call that an attack? Seriously?)
b) we dont know how the default lynch is determined and cannot be 100% that she will be the lynch because the jury may choose to lynch someone else
c) how do you purpose getting conversation out of enough people to perhaps have a viable lynch for today that isnt the default?

[Mirth]

Simulpost. Natirasha, must you really claim townie in your first substantial post?

And for the record, I am against BabyGirl claiming yet. I would like to see some conversation so that there is at least someone competing for the gallows. Her claiming now might give away information needlessly.

[Mirth]

I never once claimed townie in my post. In fact, I assure you, I am not a vanilla townie. In fact, I would be surprised if there were any in this game at all.

...~FACEPALM~ *WHY* did you just go and do that? WHY??? If I was at a desk, I'd be hitting my head against it right now.

I was refering to this:

2. I have a feeling we are the underdogs.

You claimed town. Subtle but there. (For the record, I use "townie" to mean "protown," which I do distinguish from "vanilla")

But still, argh. You just soft-claimed. WTF? As far as I'm concerned, softclaims are the frakking devil.

[Mirth]

Cept I'm not on the hook. It's page two. I'd be suspicious of anyone who even had a hook this early. Now I'm curious what you all think of Nat's call for a claim from BG? And what do you all think about soft claiming?

[Mirth]

But where would your purpose the 7 votes go then?

[Mirth]

3. Mirth seems town IMO. That type of statements : "I dont know why dont like this or that" seem a bad play for scum.

I repeat, page 2 ~flail~ the fact that youre even thinking you could get a read on me on page 2 bothers me. Lots. Now kindly go answer my questions.

[Mirth]

What questions?
I dont see how you can think everyone but you can have a read on people.

Now I'm curious what you all think of Nat's call for a claim from BG? And what do you all think about soft claiming?

And I don't. You're putting words in my mouth.

[Mirth]

And I don't. You're putting words in my mouth.

Look, Mirth. It just seems pretty wrong that you attack me for having a read of you too early when you've basically have a read on everyone that has posted in this game. Why cant someone have a read like you do? Is that your playstyle? Attacking everyone? Or is that you just "read" someone as more suspicious than the rest and go for it?

I don't have a read on anyone yet, don't know what gave you that impression. And won't for a while. And yes, I'm like this in the first few pages of a game. (And it continues beyond the first few pages if it needs to). I'll attack anything that so much as moves.

Gorrad: why do you think he's almost definitely town. A claim wasn't warranted there and a townie powerrole has really no reason to expose themselves on page 2 especially when there havent been any nightkills yet so we cant attempt to guestimate the setup of the game. How is softclaiming protown?

[Mirth]

And I don't. You're putting words in my mouth.

Look, Mirth. It just seems pretty wrong that you attack me for having a read of you too early when you've basically have a read on everyone that has posted in this game. Why cant someone have a read like you do? Is that your playstyle? Attacking everyone? Or is that you just "read" someone as more suspicious than the rest and go for it?

I don't have a read on anyone yet, don't know what gave you that impression. And won't for a while. And yes, I'm like this in the first few pages of a game. (And it continues beyond the first few pages if it needs to). I'll attack anything that so much as moves.

It seems clearly to me that you think Natirasha is more scum than town. Am I wrong?
Also, the post above was aimed to Gorrad.

Yes. You're wrong. I don't think anything about him yet other than a)soft-claiming is bad BAD VERY BAD. and b)unwarranted softclaiming is worse. As to whether he's scum or town, I don't know. I just think he did something very stupid regardless of side.

=======================================

Page 3 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Babygirl86: (0/7)
Joubert: (0/7)
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (0/7)

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 0/1)
Mirth: (0/6, 1/1) Joubert
SlySly: (0/6, 0/1)
theopor_COD: (1/6, 0/1) {Mirth}

Not Voting: (10/12) babygirl86, ChiefSkye4, Cream147, Gorrad, Matt_S, malthusis, Natirasha, populartajo, SlySly, theopor_COD

Deadline for D1: Saturday June 29, 6:15PM GMT+10
=======================================

[Mirth]

Mirth: I've got a decent enough Meta on Natirasha to think he would softclaim early with no good reason.

Tajo: You claimed that Mirth acting confused was a towntell. THAT'S what drew my attention.

Meta. Which is what exactly?

And, btw, I never acted confused. Something bothers me about CS's post, I'm sure of that, just not sure what. I'm thinking it's the statement of an obvious fact (that we should play like normal and we'll manage) that does it. Maybe I'm blind but I don't see an alternative to playing like normal since we don't know the mechanics of this set up.

[Mirth]

I didn't, he did. And I told him too early to think so.

I'll go look at that game briefly, but I put no faith in metas. Learned my lesson.

[Mirth]

Wait, explain that first sentence with less vagueness. You didn't what, he did what, and you told who too early to think what now?

I didn't say it was a town tell, Tajo did. And I said it was too early to think anything was a town tell.

I'm currently disliking his repeated attempts to find towniness in my actions actually. I'm sure that when Sly gets here he'll call scum meta on me for what I'm doing ^_^ (Hurry up and post, Sly, I miss you )

CS: don't know if its scummy or not. Just bothered me. And as you can obviously tell by now I'm fishing for anything that will get a reaction.

Tajo: because I was hoping someone would pick up on it and talk to me? I hate monologuing

[Mirth]

Who is that directed toward (speaking of metas, still reading Nats, and I will probably be ignoring it since the person who pointed it out modded that game and is therefore biased)

[Mirth]

K, I read it and I fail to see your meta on him from that game translating into this one. Please brek it down for me as if I only understoof short sentences with monosyllabic words.

[Mirth]

You assume I have a definite opinion about why he soft claimed or if soft claims=scuminess. I don't. I just don't like it. Why do you not think him capable of being sly and how does Open 71 supposedly demonstrate that?

[Mirth]

for the record, it would be awesome if Transformers could tap dance. In reterospect that was obvious, yes, but in a game it might not be. And maybe he learned from that and would do it differently?

You know what would be great? If someone else felt like talking to us...since theres only 4 of us really taking part in conversation. And that makes me sad.

[Mirth]

Vote babygirl86

Let's get this over with.

confirm vote:theo

No. And I especially like it how you're not even bothering to join the conversation or anything or even explain why you want to get it over with.

=======================================

Page 4 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Babygirl86: (1/7) {theopor_COD}
Joubert: (0/7)
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (0/7)

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 0/1)
Mirth: (0/6, 1/1) Joubert
SlySly: (0/6, 0/1)
theopor_COD: (1/6, 0/1) {Mirth}

Not Voting: (9/12) babygirl86, ChiefSkye4, Cream147, Gorrad, Matt_S, malthusis, Natirasha, populartajo, SlySly,

Deadline for D1: Saturday June 29, 6:15PM GMT+10
=======================================

[Mirth]

Seriously, Theo?

However, something is suspicious about that vote. Post Restriction perhaps? Until he answers, I will not be on this bandwagon.

Anyways, do you think I should full-claim?

Bah. You've set yourself up for it. So maybe. Claims are evil. Do whatever majority decides, if other people feel like posting.

[Mirth]

Vote babygirl86

Let's get this over with.

You seem to be a fairly experienced player. Therefore, you surely know that time is money as far as town are concerned. The more discussion the better. Lynching the defendant right now would do nothing for the town! It would just mean we were in a Day 1 situation tomorrow!

Vote: theopor_COD

Vote : Cream147

woot woot

Why?

[Mirth]

MOD: Can you prod anyone who has not yet posted in-thread?

Anyways, onto my claim.

I am Maya Fey, town-aligned. Every night, I may "channel" a dead player. I will then see that player's role PM. I asked, and scum/mason partners will not be revealed.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but this role seems completely useless.

It does. I am also bothered by Natirasha not waiting for more people to comment on whether or not he should full claim.

I sincerely doubt theopor wrote that because he's scum. Its a nice gambit if he's scum but for now Im not happy with the reaction of our good friend Cream. You vote for him and then he joins. Easy targets attract scum.

If you didn't notice, my vote was already on Theo. For something not at all related to this game. It's staying there until I hear Theo talk some more. And I don't know if he wrote it because he's scum. Meta on him tells me that all meta should be ignored. He's just that good. I just want to see him talk and can't really blame Cream for being vote number 2 on a wagon. Why do you?

[Mirth]

Anyways, onto my claim.

I am Maya Fey, town-aligned. Every night, I may "channel" a dead player. I will then see that player's role PM. I asked, and scum/mason partners will not be revealed.

Correct me if I'm wrong (or stating the obvious), but I'm guessing this means that we won't find their roles out when they die? If we do find out the roles, then it's useless, no?

Only if he isn't lying/his role isn't just an excuse for the Mod to give a vanilla a name and supposed abilities. We won't know this until someone is lynched.

See what I'm curious about is why he exposed himself so early.

[Mirth]

I ought to read and why has someone claimed on page four?

That's a mystery to the rest of us too...

[Mirth]

I don't like the one line votes from several people here- especially when some(like the vote that was on me) had no basis. The role claim wouldn't surprise me if it were true- seems like a very legit role. But I do think we need to make some progress in this game and although I don't like the sudden vote on me by theo, I'm not convinced enough to place a vote yet.

Why do you feel the need to be convinced to place a vote? (For all intents and purposes your vote is invalid unless you can get 6 members of the jury to vote with you against the remaining jury member, so this is kind of a null point in the first place)

Why not join in on our conversation and comment about any of the people who posted so far? Or the random nature of Nat's claim? Or his asking you to claim? Or pretty much anything that has happened?

[Mirth]

I soft-claimed in response to a misunderstanding to Mirth. Then(As was pointed out) I am now a mafia target. As such, I full-claimed to get the mafia off my back. Without getting too far into WIFOM, my role cannot find them and actually might GIVE the mafia extra information under certain circumstances, so I don't think they'll attack me.

I don't entirely buy this. You had other options on how to respond to me that did not involve claiming

so I don't think they'll attack me.

I think Nat's right. The claim wasn't that big of a 'OMG, NOW THEY GONNA KILL JOO AND WE NEED JOO' deal, because if Nat's telling the truth, then the role isn't that valuable to town, and assuming that there are more valuable roles, they won't kill him.

He soft-claimed, meaning that he might be doc or cop, or anything, but then he full-claimed, turning out to be a rather useless role (possibly).

This is all, of course, only relevant if Nat's not a-lyin'.

Or he could be mafia claiming a useless role to excuse the screw up he made in responding to me so that it doesnt look suspicious when he doesn't get nightkilled. Just a thought. Then again if his role is useful (that is if we have no reveal on death), mafia might just off him anyway, because they dont really need to know anything other than that they must kill everyone who isnt them.

Ok you're free to disagree but why is Cream so sure about theopor? Any ideas? Why did he jump against him and not against other minor cases?
-----------------------
Mirth I find extremely strange that you dont have to say anything about Cream.
Also Natirasha's case is so full of WIFOM that it hurts.
Is Theo that dumb?

Didn't say anything about Cream because there's nothing to say. It was obviously a pressure vote as there is no case on Theo right now.

my bad- guess I forgot that my vote doesn't really count.... but on the other hand I also don't like how populartajo jumped on cream.... that doesn't really sit too well with me either. They both have explained themselves, but I'm more inclined to vote for theo

vote: theoper_COD

What about any of the other stuff I asked you about, eh? Oh, btw,

unvote:Theo

since he's talking now

vote:babygirl86

One Vote . . . babyface is not going to be lynched is she on the basis of my vote, three weeks from deadline. Is she? Does anyone seriously think we'd go into night early because of that?

Nah, but I would like to hear more commentary out of you.

[Mirth]

I don't entirely buy this. You had other options on how to respond to me that did not involve claiming.

I misread your statement. Although, I probably would have probably claimed by the end of the day anyways, so...

Why? Unless you were Supertownie there would not really be a point.

[Mirth]

EBWOP: Supertownie (obvious mafia target) or up for lynch.

[Mirth]

Why?

[Mirth]

Usually helps scum more than town if done too early. Especially since scum can usually take claims at face value and town can't.

[Mirth]

3. Mirth is the devil. She is acting her normal self. From my experience, that leans towards her being scummy.

Glad you could finally join us. I missed you terribly

Do you have any other comments on anything else that's happened in the last 5 pages? I'd really like to hear them.

Have I mentioned I missed you terribly?

And even if I am the devil, at least you know not to trust me this time. Especially when I'm so obviously and blatantly lying ^___^

[Mirth]

Simulpost!

Malth, why do you think I'm voting BG? And what makes you think scum don't have nightkills? Insider information?

[Mirth]

Wow, this game is heaven! I get a reply within 1 mintue

1.Just re-read that and saw that she hadn't been answering your questions.

2.

I really don't think mafia has nightkills, this seems pretty unbalanced in a game that it is pretty hard to take out scum.

I don't think this is a Bastard Mod setup anways.

You just caught me at an active time. I'm good but not usually that good. But wouldn't no nightkills be even more bastard moddery from the point of view of the scum?

And Gorrad, would you care to explain why I'm number one on your scumlist?

[Mirth]

Can we stop with all this setup discussion?

I find something strange about the Malthusis-Mirth conversation there. This nightkill discussion seems very...put on, to say the least. Out of the two, Mirth is more annoying, so I'm currently predisposed to vote her. I don't like her reasoning for voting babygirl(i.e. None), and the fact she is attacking everything that moves.

Vote: Babygirl

.

Err...this does not seem like an honest mistake to me. How can you confuse our names. And I did give a reason for voting Babygirl. Why does my vote on her bother you so much?

[Mirth]

Mirth: I was talking about babygirl in that last sentence, and that's why I messed up there.

If you read, I also don't like your conversation with Malthusis there. And what is your reasoning for voting babygirl again?

I forgot to mention an

FoS: Malthusis.

You're free not to like it. I don't like how he assumes that there will be no nightkills.

I voted her because she's blatantly ignoring my questions.

[Mirth]

Mirth: I was talking about babygirl in that last sentence, and that's why I messed up there.

If you read, I also don't like your conversation with Malthusis there. And what is your reasoning for voting babygirl again?

I forgot to mention an

FoS: Malthusis.

You're free not to like it. I don't like how he assumes that there will be no nightkills.

I voted her because she's blatantly ignoring my questions.

Ok. Strike the "voting babygirl" reason, then. Still, that whole discussion seems put-on. In fact, I daresay, one of you is scum. I'll test you first.

You're so sure of this after a 4 post conversation? Really? Maybe you *are* psychic.

Matt: actually we might not know based on what could interfere with a kill. And maybe this method of voting is handicapping the town because the town might be overpowered? Who knows. Bothers me that he brought it up though. (It seems to me that the defendant thing is just mod induced to ensure this game doesnt drag on to all eternity though)

[Mirth]

Matt: actually we might not know based on what could interfere with a kill. And maybe this method of voting is handicapping the town because the town might be overpowered? Who knows. Bothers me that he brought it up though. (It seems to me that the defendant thing is just mod induced to ensure this game doesnt drag on to all eternity though)

True, I should have said tomorrow is the earliest we can have any idea. I'm more bothered with the fact that you suspected inside information, but that's just from my personal experience. I've had a mafia traitor and a serial killer accuse me of inside information, compared to just one townie, in a single game.

I don't know if he has insider information. I accused him of it to try and get a rise out of him. It didn't work.

[Mirth]

alright here we go..... I already commented on nat's claim.... I believe it, and although I'm sort of questioning why she claimed so early, I'll let it go..I'm not surprised that she asked me to claim- I am the defendant after all. I don't like the way mirth is playing right now and especially for not answering questions... why not just remind me- ever think that maybe I just missed it? and in answer to joubert, I am innocent.

unvote, vote mirth

Annnnnd you're still not answering. You say you're not surprised he asked you to claim, but what do you actually think of the idea. There's all this discussion going on around you and you're not really participating. Why is that?

[Mirth]

I DONT FEEL ONE WAY OR ANOTHER ABOUT IT

Now this is an actual answer. Any reason why you feel the need to blow up and yell?

[Mirth]

I might as well say. Mirth accused Malth (dang those names are gonna get confusing) of having insider information, hence the speculation. Now, Mirth, why would scum EVER reveal a mechanic the town didn't know. There's no reason at all. You've been on the site over a year, you should and I daresay DO know this. That you would make such an accusation puts you as surefire scum in my eyes.

Now, would the rest of the jury please assist me with Mirth's lynch?

And you, who have also been on the site for over a year, should also know about a little thing called reaction testing. But maybe you don't, since you don't seem to be very concerned about getting people to talk or interact or anything of the sort. The fact that you're calling for a lynch *now* disturbs me greatly. We're already only have 3 week days. You yourself should know better than to throw away discussion time especially day 1 when most of us are entirely blind. If you still think I'm scum closer to deadline, then whatever. But it's not deadline yet. Far from it. And a couple of people, including my bestest friend on the planet (:P) Sly have said little or nothing. Why do you want to go into night just as blind as we are in day?

[Mirth]

Heck, I found that post to have a hell of a lot of irony in it. You know he could be just testing you for a reaction you know. All he's doing is pressuring you. Plus, you'll need every single other jury member to lynch you, so don't go worrying about your lynch just yet.

Except I'm not worried about my lynch. I'm more worried about the fact that he's not at all interested in discussing anything but how scummy I am and seems to be in a hurry to end this day. Look back at his posts. He pretty much zeroes in on me from the get go and doesn't really attempt to discuss anything else. He could say I'm scum all he wants, that part doesn't bother me, but I am concerned about how he's not willing to go further. Even if I am scum his lack of questioning of other players would give him no leads for day 2. He's citing townie cowardice to drive a wagon as fast a possible. Don't see when rationality and cowardice become synonymous.

Oh, and I missed Joubert's post from a while back: I don't know where you're getting reprimend from. I asked you for a reason since you did not specify your vote was random. Nowhere in it did I attack you or tell you you shouldn't vote me. Just asked why you did. Now you say it was random, 5 pages later. Do you have anything else to say about anything else?

[Mirth]

You and Joubert.

[Mirth]

How would not asking questions of others leave me leadless? I'd still be reading them and watching interactions. Besides, if they do something scummy, I will call them out, but for now you're leading the scumtrain by far.

You're not attempting to provoke reactions in anyone but me. I call that missing out on possible leads. If I am scum, then my methods of provocation would be geared to confuse. You're not trying to figure anything out for yourself. Don't like the sitting back and the tunnel vision.

I really don't know why you're worried as of right now, I'd wait to see what the other jurors think of these latest posts first.

Why just the other jurors? Is everyone else's opinion not important to you just because they can't vote?

CS: what makes you think you missed it the first time instead of just finding something that wasn't there the second? Can you really be sure that you didn't only find it "put on" because of suggestion? Why are you willing to follow Gorrad's instincts more than your own?

Tajo: Do you actually believe in scumtells as valid measures of alignment? Why you you think BG is probably town. Why do you think CS is town?

[Mirth]

Answer to Mirth. The delay between my first post and the next one was not intentional from my part. But yes, it was a random vote, and your reaction to it was informative. I don't have a lot to say because in my eye, Babygirl is innocent until proven otherwise, and nothing was said that could condemn her...

Anything to say about anyone else? Why just condemning BG?

[Mirth]

This whole "put on" thing seems kind of put on. Nobody saw it that way until Natirasha brought it up. It seems to be nothing but a distraction.

Well...Natirasha saw it before he brought it up. If you read the conversation and can't see how it feels a bit put on, then...well...I don't know.

Except that it wasn't. I don't like how this implicitly seems to be saying that just because y'all think you see it it must be there. Maybe it was maybe it wasn't. You can't be sure.

Mod: can we get prods on Theo, Sly, Babygirl, and anyone else who hasn't posted in a while?

[Mirth]

This whole "put on" thing seems kind of put on. Nobody saw it that way until Natirasha brought it up. It seems to be nothing but a distraction.

Well...Natirasha saw it before he brought it up. If you read the conversation and can't see how it feels a bit put on, then...well...I don't know.

Except that it wasn't. I don't like how this implicitly seems to be saying that just because y'all think you see it it must be there. Maybe it was maybe it wasn't. You can't be sure.

Or, maybe, we see it, and you don't. Different people read things different ways. Plus, on this matter, your opinion doesn't count--you are one of the people in the conversation.

Noted that you're blatantly ignoring even the possibility that my explanation is honest. Also noted how hard you're pushing.

Also Tajo has a point. If it was the wagon on Theo (not a big one at all), why did Cream unvote now as opposed to before when there were more votes on Theo. Why are you defending Cream?

[Mirth]

What is it with you and Tajo? You guys have been buddying up all day, backing each other whenever possible.

Um what? Saying someone has a point is defending them now? Really?

[Mirth]

I find theo's lurking to be disturbing since he wanted to start conversation so badly yet is not saying a thing anymore. And these baseless accusations being flung back and forth are the perfect camouflage for scum trying to hide in the shadows. I don't think it's a coincidence that only half the town is posting during this put on conversation.

Actually posting history says that some of the silent ones, including Theo, havent been posting anywhere for the past few days...

[Mirth]

Hurray, conversation. Don't have time to comment now, tired want to sleep, will do so first chance I get (might not be tomorrow, but def Thurs at least)

[Mirth]

Mmmmm concert headache...

@Gorrad, 185: and what's your scum reading on yourself?
Tajo: I am not liking how you assume BG is town because she's defensive to the point of exasperation.
Sly: I don't strike you as scummy? Wow. I don't think there's a general consensus about BG, but I wouldn't say that there's much to go on. She only posted a couple of times and she avoided a question or two from me and her responses have been kind of disinterested.
Gorrad: why are you leaning towards innocent. She hasn't posted much and what she has posted doesn't have lots of content in it.
Cream: why am I your number one? And why didn't you unvote Theo earlier then?
Tajo: Why do you go so far to say that BG is less scummy then everyone else here?

... wait? You're assuming BG is innocent by attempting to mod outguess that scum can't be on trial first? WTH? How is this a remotely valid reason?

[Mirth]

Its a safe assumption.
Unless those lists are random. You guys have your point here. But do you think it would be fair for scum to have a possible scumpartner in the first trial? This game is different and thats why Im 90% sure volkan had to mess it a little bit for balance reasons.

No, it isn't. It's a hasty, badly informed assumption. We don't know what Vollkan's game mechanics here are. We also don't know the scum to town ratio. We don't know scum powers or town powers for that matter. I don't see why you insist on attempting to outguess the mod on day 1.

[Mirth]

There is absolutely no chance that the mod had any say whatsoever in who the defendant is.

Savvy?

What makes you think this?

[Mirth]

I think no.

Why not? And who do you think is, besides me?

[Mirth]

Why are you certain his claim is true. Do you think you have enough posts from Malth to have an opinion on him? Why Tajo? (And Theo, btw, isn't even around. Check his post history). Why don't BG's posts seem like scum posts?

[Mirth]

Don't think I have just made baseless accusations there, even if I haven't said in detail what the base behind my accusations is!

Have I said this now? No. Why assume so? Answer whenever you can, I'm not rushing you. Though I am troubled by this part of your post.

[Mirth]

Why? Haven't I been just as aggressive to most of the players here? What makes you so special as to be a target of something other than Mirth-probing?

[Mirth]

Soooooo care to comment on anyone else Sly? (Also, wow, aggressiveness, I'm impressed I do think you're letting me off the hook a bit too easily considering what I pulled in the past. Now I sure as heck don't believe in meta, but I'm wondering why you aren't more suspicious of me)

Mod: can we get prods on Babygirl, Theo, Malth, and Joubert please if you haven't recently prodded them?

[Mirth]

Glad you think so (bout the past, I mean.) But I disagree with you about focusing on the defendant alone. Only way to truly confirm someone innocent is to kill them, so we can't really decide if the defendant is innocent. Only play this game like normal with looking for scum. After all, we don't know why she's the defendant and not someone else.

[Mirth]

My *reaction* to your vote? I was asking you why you made it. You blew that out of proportion. Now then, would you care to discuss anything that was brought up? Like Tajo's assumption based on mod-outguessing, Tajo's comments on Cream, Nat's claim, whether or not BG should claim, my supposed relationship to Malth, anything at all?

[Mirth]

In fact, I've got a bloody good reason to assume that Vollkan had very little to do with who the defendant is. It would just be too unbalanced if the mod chose- AND it would be biased. It's either 100% random or someone besides Vollkan chose.

This confuses me. Not the post, although, the tone of it was at least a little scummy, but so little that it's not really even a blip on the radar. Anyway, I should think that it's EITHER...

A. A scum role to pick the defendant (making it uber-hard on town)

B. It's completely random. I'm probably going with this, because otherwise, it would be nigh-impossible.

Tsk tsk, why so quick to assume scum role? My guess, if it's not random,
is that it's a TOWN role that picks the defendant.

I see you're still ignoring my question.

[Mirth]

I asked what makes you think so. And Sly just brought it up again the post before yours.

[Mirth]

Interesting. Though I don't really understand why its more likely for a townie to choose than for the mod to roll dice or something.

[Mirth]

Lynch is town controlled though despite who the defendant is. Jury could vote someone else. I really don't like how you're all pretty much assuming, even if by your actions alone, just because the mechanics of this game are a bit different that town should just sit back and face the inevitability of a defendant lynch. Except for the push on me (part of which seems fishy and contrived), there has been a lack of actual playing involved.

unvote:babygirl

since she's not even talking anymore and hence my vote on her is useless.

mod: how are those prods? Also, I don't suppose you could be pleaded with to extend the deadline a tad? Pretty please with sugar on top?

[Mirth]

I'm pretty certain that Natirasha's claim is true, because it's an absolutely hideous role for scum to claim. If he is scum, vollkan would have sent him that fake claim, but I'm sure vollkan would know better than to give a fake claim like THAT! We are going to ask Nat about the pm he looked at overnight tomorrow. That will be a horrible task for someone to forge.

Here, we seem to be venturing into the territory of mod outguessing again. We don't know if mod sent fake claims. It's also conversly a pretty sucky town role that we can't verify until someone else dies. That and Nat had absolutely no reason to claim in the first place.

[quote="Cream" Personally I think that is a futile endeavor from him, because deflecting attention from you is near impossible![/quote]

Agreed, as I'm incapable of shutting up ^_^

[Mirth]

I wouldn't call it fishing. I'd call it blatantly asking Gorrad to confirm/deny what could be regarded as possible blatant breadcrumbing. I don't like that Sly just asked that though, either.

[Mirth]

Well, Matt's right in that it doesn't say anything about alignments...I'm not comfortable with more claiming, but I can't say Sly's question was totally unexpected...

[Mirth]

mod: how are those prods? Also, I don't suppose you could be pleaded with to extend the deadline a tad? Pretty please with sugar on top?

I will extend it by 1 week.

Yay!

[Mirth]

How about you just make an indepth post. Im sure we'd all like that.

[Mirth]

Why are you still playing the mod-outguessing game. And Gorrad, while I don't like what SlySly asked, I kind of can't blame him for asking it with the way you present your opinion in the matter as fact.

[Mirth]

Why?

Mod: have people picked up their prods?

[Mirth]

I dont think its possible to break the setup and also that its not particularly important because figuring out how the defendant is determined doesn't change that there is a defendant. It also doesn't change that we still need to lynch someone. An odd setup is not an excuse to not actually play mafia, because in a normal game no one is this caught up over how many power roles there are or what they are or if there are two roleblockers and one roleblocks the other, will that be chained or layered or whatever. In a normal game regardless of setup, you think about whos suspicious and only worry about setup when you need to.

[Mirth]

I really wish the other people who aren't posting would post too.

[Mirth]

Why are you so ready to declare her innocent? She's not even participating at this point, so she's pretty much a null read.

[Mirth]

Why are you so ready to declare her innocent? She's not even participating at this point, so she's pretty much a null read.

Because you can't possibly prove something that is NOT. That's all...

And you can't prove something that is when there is nothing to either support or deny it with.

Ah...BM...I see you're going to take 509 out on me. Whatever. I don't particularly care, but if you feel like going to personal insults, wait until 509 finishes and have it out with me in that thread please.

I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.

I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming? Later on you say I support a claim from him? Yay for misrepresentation. Soft-claiming is worse than full claiming. Way to read. Geez. I see that your whole post is coloured by you just not liking me for meta reasons, . Keep it in your pants please.

Why do you think CS is scummy? Specifically?

From my experience playing mafia with her, I have seen that Mirth has greater skill at this game than most.

No, actually. I think that was just an insane amount of luck and the town being kind of gullible And please dont bother defending me to him.

I am sad Theo is no longer in this game. Well, alas.

[Mirth]

509? since when did my comments have any real link to the only game we have shared recently? Granted, my experience of playing with you doesn't give me the greatest optimism about us faring much better this game. In fairness, i expect you share the same opinion of me. But, facts are facts, and you are playing differently here to how i have seen you play before.

Actually, I have no opinion of you. You also have a pretty poor meta on me if you feel like going off meta.

I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.

I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?

You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:

Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed

protown

".

ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??

Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it was

you

who forced him to claim.

I forced him to do nothing. I see no point in saying "hi, I'm town" because it is meaningless. Everyone is already implicitly asserting this just through playing. So there is no reason to come out and say it, as Nat did do. What does he hope to prove by saying it? I called him out on this, and, instead of not reacting, which the ideal reaction would have been, i.e. "what else am I supposed to claim" or the like, he went out an actually soft claimed. Soft claims are worse than full claims as far as I'm concerned in that they lead to endless WIFOM if the soft claimer should live. They are also a way for scum to possibly claim a powerrole and decide later on which role they want to pretend to be. If you think I'm a complete idiot, go ahead and think so, but, seeing my rather intense stance on claims being evil (except in very very specific circumstances like LYLO), a stance I stand by as both town and scum, I don't see how you can think it was intentional. I've clearly demonstrated that I jump at everything that so much as moves. Nat saw this before claiming, yet he did so anyway to a question which should have has no answer. And then he admitted that he probably would have claimed soon anyway.

As for CS, you say she gives you scummy vibes, then you say she supports a claim and is reluctant to vote Theo and thats also scummy. You say that it is humorous that she joins the "Cream-Mirth group" That her post 99 doesn't make sense, 103 feels scummy, and that Tajo claims CS is town. This is not a reason. Why do you get scum vibes from her. Since you already think I'm an idiot, please explain it to me like one.

[Mirth]

Well you SHOULD have a meta on me. In fact, i think if you used your limited meta knowledge on me, youd probably find me scummy as hell, although ofc, that is down to different game circumstances. The same is true of you, although perhaps to a lesser degree, and im not sure you can use the same excuse i can...

I'm not going to rely on meta of you, and I really do ask that you and Sly both pay attention to my play in this game and not metas. (BTW, Sly has a scum meta on me, so I'm a tad worried about him defending me in this game, because he should know better.)

I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.

I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?

You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:

Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed

protown

".

ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??

Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it was

you

who forced him to claim.

I forced him to do nothing. I see no point in saying "hi, I'm town" because it is meaningless. Everyone is already implicitly asserting this just through playing. So there is no reason to come out and say it, as Nat did do. What does he hope to prove by saying it? I called him out on this, and, instead of not reacting, which the ideal reaction would have been, i.e. "what else am I supposed to claim" or the like, he went out an actually soft claimed.

Wait a second. Let's slow down and look at this. You are saying that you thought he hinted at being protown? So why did you say that he had softclaimed? You explicitly said at the time that he had hinted at being vanilla. That's inconsistency number 1.
Number 2, is, if you didnt want him to claim, WHY THE HECK DID YOU "CALL HIM OUT ON IT" when it was clearly a null tell anyway, and the only reaction he could conceivably have made to what you said, was a full claim or a further softclaim.
I cant fathom why you are even trying to deny this, when it's written in black and white for all to see. I'll tell you what. Seeing as you can't defend your actions, why don't we let SlySly have a go?

Way to read, BM. Since when is riding anyone for claiming town USELESSLY asking them for a claim? No, seriously? I call him out on some this is useless, you take that as me trying to get him to claim. No contridiction here, just you not reading. Yes, it's a null tell. A null tell that he should not have reacted to being probed about.

Soft claims are worse than full claims as far as I'm concerned in that they lead to endless WIFOM if the soft claimer should live. They are also a way for scum to possibly claim a powerrole and decide later on which role they want to pretend to be.

Equally they can have positive impacts. A townie can absorb a kill by softclaiming a power role. If someone softclaims a power role, the Doc has a good idea of who to protect, and hence we ca
n prevent an NK that way. But, mainly, a softclaim tells us we have a power role claimant, WITHOUT TELLING THE SCUM WHAT POWER ROLE THAT IS.

And outs a bunch of other power roles in the process the next day when the WIFOM starts.

If you think I'm a complete idiot, go ahead and think so, but, seeing my rather intense stance on claims being evil (except in very very specific circumstances like LYLO), a stance I stand by as both town and scum, I don't see how you can think it was intentional. I've clearly demonstrated that I jump at everything that so much as moves. Nat saw this before claiming, yet he did so anyway to a question which should have has no answer. And then he admitted that he probably would have claimed soon anyway.

Right. So you asked a question which had no answer, and you knew could only have bad consequences for the town? And you're wondering why we're speculating on your intelligence here??
I'm sorry to say it man, but nothing you are saying is adding up in my mind. Ironically, i still think you are probably town.
Oh and btw, Inconsistency number 3 is your claim that you are against claims, when in fact, this stance has not been reflected atall in this game.

I asked him because I was trying to get a read on him. Was more interested in his reaction than anything else. You should know this considering how experienced you are. As it's why anybody asks any type of question in this game.

[Mirth]

Well you SHOULD have a meta on me. In fact, i think if you used your limited meta knowledge on me, youd probably find me scummy as hell, although ofc, that is down to different game circumstances. The same is true of you, although perhaps to a lesser degree, and im not sure you can use the same excuse i can...

I'm not going to rely on meta of you, and I really do ask that you and Sly both pay attention to my play in this game and not metas. (BTW, Sly has a scum meta on me, so I'm a tad worried about him defending me in this game, because he should know better.)

So you are playing how you do as scum?

I try my hardest to play the same way regardless of my role, but I do happen to jump on everything in the first few pages as either town or scum. Quit looking for meta and pay attention to this game.

I especially hate the way in which she forces a claim out of Natirasha. Mirth herself would have me lynched for that.

I force a claim out of him? WTF? Did I ask him to soft claim for no apparent reason what so ever after I stated I'm not a fan of claiming?

You arent a fan of claiming? yeh right!
If thats the case, you forgot to tell your second personality that, because half your posts on claiming have been in favour of it.
Let me remind you what happened:

Natirasha makes a normal post.
Mirth pops up and accuses Natirasha of softclaiming 'townie'.
Natirasha, as perhaps would be impulse reaction, steps up to deny this accusation, and in turn, hints at a power role.
Under scrutiny, Mirth claims that when she said "Natirasha softclaimed townie" she meant "Natirasha softclaimed

protown

".

ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME? WHO THE HELL CLAIMS "PROTOWN". AND MORE TO THE POINT- WHY WOULD IT EVEN MATTER??

Whether you meant to or not is one thing. Personally, i cant see how you could have done this accidentally without being a complete idiot. But the fact is, it was

you

who forced him to claim.

I forced him to do nothing. I see no point in saying "hi, I'm town" because it is meaningless. Everyone is already implicitly asserting this just through playing. So there is no reason to come out and say it, as Nat did do. What does he hope to prove by saying it? I called him out on this, and, instead of not reacting, which the ideal reaction would have been, i.e. "what else am I supposed to claim" or the like, he went out an actually soft claimed.

Wait a second. Let's slow down and look at this. You are saying that you thought he hinted at being protown? So why did you say that he had softclaimed? You explicitly said at the time that he had hinted at being vanilla. That's inconsistency number 1.
Number 2, is, if you didnt want him to claim, WHY THE HECK DID YOU "CALL HIM OUT ON IT" when it was clearly a null tell anyway, and the only reaction he could conceivably have made to what you said, was a full claim or a further softclaim.
I cant fathom why you are even trying to deny this, when it's written in black and white for all to see. I'll tell you what. Seeing as you can't defend your actions, why don't we let SlySly have a go?

Way to read, BM. Since when is riding anyone for claiming town USELESSLY asking them for a claim? No, seriously? I call him out on some this is useless, you take that as me trying to get him to claim. No contridiction here, just you not reading. Yes, it's a null tell. A null tell that he should not have reacted to being probed about.

You said he claimed 'townie'. Townie is most certainly not just 'town'. Seriously if you were really going on about him simply stating the obvious, thats even MORE suspicious. Clutch at straws much? And as for his reaction, you cant seriously claim it was surprising. ANYONE would have responded the same. 99% of newbies would have. I probably would have. I expect most people here would have.

As far as I'm concerned townie = protown regardless of actual role. If you haven't noticed, I attacked everyone for everything at the start of this game, so yes, totally grasping at straws to try and get some sort of reaction beynd "oh this game dynamic sucks for town." And no, not everybody would have responded with "no, I'm not vanilla." He is also not a complete newbie, if you've noticed, so don't try to make excuses for him. Bothers me that you are.

If you think I'm a complete idiot, go ahead and think so, but, seeing my rather intense stance on claims being evil (except in very very specific circumstances like LYLO), a stance I stand by as both town and scum, I don't see how you can think it was intentional. I've clearly demonstrated that I jump at everything that so much as moves. Nat saw this before claiming, yet he did so anyway to a question which should have has no answer. And then he admitted that he probably would have claimed soon anyway.

Right. So you asked a question which had no answer, and you knew could only have bad consequences for the town? And you're wondering why we're speculating on your intelligence here??
I'm sorry to say it man, but nothing you are saying is adding up in my mind. Ironically, i still think you are probably town.
Oh and btw, Inconsistency number 3 is your claim that you are against claims, when in fact, this stance has not been reflected atall in this game.

I asked him because I was trying to get a read on him. Was more interested in his reaction than anything else. You should know this considering how experienced you are. As it's why anybody asks any type of question in this game.

Maybe so. But the question you asked was one that anyone else would have considered outright blatant rolefishing.

Yet they didn't. In fact, I got jumped on for my exchange with Malth and not this. Explain why you think this is so please?

Joubert: great, I agree with you, care to add anything else besides your thoughts on meta? We're close to deadline even with the mod being generous, but you haven't really contributed much so far and I have absolutely no read on you. Please talk/comment more.

[Mirth]

Why are you still defending BG/Rishi?

[Mirth]

And you, who have also been on the site for over a year, should also know about a little thing called reaction testing.

And you, who have been on the site for over a year, should know about a little thing called an avatar. Geez.

Sorry.. in the middle of my read, but couldn't go on without inserting a sarcastic comment. Will have a post up soon.

No But if you want, I'm sure you can form a club with all the other people who want me to get an avatar and try to convince me

I too would prefer you don't claim at this point.

Mod: can we get prods on Malth and Nat?

[Mirth]

There you have it, BM. I'm obviously not the only one who thinks townie means protown and not vanilla. So leave the dead horse alone.

Now, I've heard others go up against SlySly besides myself, how about some more votes there, eh Jurors?

Gave up on getting me lynched already? Why?

I personally don't find Sly suspicious enough to vote. I am trying to decide between you, BM, and Nat. I don't believe Nat's claim, but lynching someone who claimed a powerrole day 1 would be incredably stupid. You, well, your play has been rather tunnelvisioned and less than satisfactory, but I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching you either, won't go into why. And BM, well, BM really just bothers me with what exactly he's taking issue with, but that could just be BM being himself...

I'm also really not liking the "BG/Rishi" is town thing coming from Tajo...

[Mirth]

I don't think you're 100% scum. I just don't like how you spent lots of time going "BG is innocent" You and Nat can't know this unless you're scum.

[Mirth]

How exactly do you justify writing stuff off as tl;dr?

[Mirth]

Too long; didn't read.

[Mirth]

Did not comment because there was nothing to comment on. What exactly did you suggest? Before you tell me to go back and reread your posts, you said that maybe we should consider a list like Mith uses, and then you asked if anyone had any thoughts about a concordet voting system a couple pages later. This all means nothing to me as I do not understand the reference of either post, never having been in any of Mith's large games. Perhaps you should actually explain what it is you're driving at?

[Mirth]

The logical option for scum will be to dont give a damn about this game.

Great, that's half the town.

[Mirth]

Care to participate with something more than sarcasm?

[Mirth]

Would be better if you reacted.

[Mirth]

Why so fixated on Cream? Is he really the scummiest?

[Mirth]

You didn't answer my question.

[Mirth]

On avatars: I don't want one. If I'm the only one in a game without an avatar, that should be a pretty easy scan too.

On BM being emotional: yes, he is actually like this. This is why I have no read on him yet.

If I had to vote now, it would be a threeway tie between BM (though, again, I can't really be sure if he's just being himself), Tajo (for going on about how BG was innocent), and Joubert (for refusing to participate).

=======================================

Page 16 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Rishi: (0/7)
Joubert: (0/7)
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (1/7) {Battle Mage}

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 0/1)
Mirth: (1/6, 1/1) {malthusis}, Joubert
SlySly: (1/6, 1/1) {Gorrad}, Matt_S
Battle Mage: (0/6, 2/1) populartajo, Rishi

Not Voting: (5/12) ChiefSkye4, SlySly, Cream147, Natirasha, Mirth

Deadline for D1: Sunday July 5, 6:15PM GMT+10
=======================================

[Mirth]

How about this: if you create an avatar I deem worthy, I will adopt it?

[Mirth]

Actually, I directed that comment at you specifically since you're pretty much the last person I expect to do even consider doing it, so anyone who feels like griping about my lack of an avatar can gripe at you instead

[Mirth]

Not quite yet. I'd like to hear some more talking.

Mod: can you prod Sly and Malth and anyone else whos been quiet lately?

[Mirth]

I know we're not going to get a premature lynch. I'm holding off because I'm not entirely happy with it and I would like more conversation first. Since when is it my job to set a good example for people? This is not a newbie game. It's also not like deadline is tomorrow. We till have a couple of days and I want to use them.

[Mirth]

I know we're not going to get a premature lynch. I'm holding off because I'm not entirely happy with it and I would like more conversation first. Since when is it my job to set a good example for people? This is not a newbie game. It's also not like deadline is tomorrow. We till have a couple of days and I want to use them.

Look at the overall activity of this game. Not everyone is checking in daily. Its your job to set a good example for people if you are town, because A: you want to give townies every opportunity to contribute and B: you dont want to give scum an excuse to NOT contribute.
We need a unanimous verdict to even save Rishi here, so the only way you are going to get an alternative lynch is by convincing Gorrad. at the very LEAST. You have not attempted to do this, and you can probably see why i'm not buying the whole 'i'd like more conversation' bs. It's very easy to paddle that, but if you arent giving anything to the game yourself, how can you realistically ask others to do so?

Offer an alternative. Offer something to discuss. Offer SOMETHING. Don't say nothing, and then claim you are waiting for conversation, in order to perhaps recommence your shadow baiting earlier on in the game. It's very far from helpful, and doesnt show you in a protown light.

BM

I don't think you have the right to levy this criticism at me considering I've spent the first few weeks that this game was going on questioning everybody for everything. Frankly, I'm getting just a tiny bit fed up with the fact that people like Joubert keep popping in, making contentless posts, and ignoring my questions. I also don't like the whole "Rishi is town" assumption that is going on here. None of us (except scum and/or Rishi can know this for sure) so I'm a little suspicious of the whole "save Rishi" campaign that started back when Tajo and a couple of other people somehow magically deduced BG was innocent. So while I don't think Rishi is the best lynch, I don't like the assumption that he's not scum that's going around. I don't like my own personal list of suspects because it's mainly based on the inactivity of half the town. I know that not everyone can check the game every day, but it is not my responsibility to hold their hands and offer them a ready made lynch target because they don't feel like drawing up their own lists of suspects.

And I've decided that I'd much prefer a Joubert lynch to a Tajo lynch, because at least Tajo is trying to participate.

[Mirth]

So I suppose we need to hear from Cream, Malth, and Sly now.

For the moment:

vote:Joubert

. Willing to move it to Tajo or possibly BM though.

[Mirth]

You might want to try that again cause of the lack of bolding. Also, do you have anything else to add, Malth? Besides just echoing the whole "Joubert isn't really playing" thing?

[Mirth]

I have no idea. I tried looking through Mith's games but I really don't have that much time. I'm assuming it's something like run-off voting.

[Mirth]

Just one thing. Sly hasn't posted here in a while and we need his vote too to get a lynch.

mod: can you prod Sly if you haven't already?

[Mirth]

Wait a second. How am I at the bottom of your scum list now? You were voting for me up until this page. What changed?

[Mirth]

Every single person should participate, and then the jury should vote for the person who 'wins' the vote, no matter what their personal leanings may be. That's what I think anyway. However, if this is to happen, we need to make a move fast.

I'm not sure I agree with this completely. Even if we are the jury, we're still supposed to use out heads.

But I suppose my list of people I'd vote for:

Joubert
Tajo
Battle Mage
Natirasha
Malthusis
Gorrad
Rishi

I am only listing the order going from scummiest to Rishi, because, honestly, this is mainly to find someone who isn't Rishi to lynch, and regardless of who "wins" my vote wouldn't be moving lower than that on my scum list, if Rishi is the default, and I don't particularly feel like sharing my order of "probably not scum"

[Mirth]

That's a great defense their Joubert: "She's obviously being all OMGUS about it so don't lynch me." This is ignoring the fact that you have accused me of something I didn't do and the fact that I repeatedly asked you to actually participate and you haven't. Malth has been low on content, so has CS, and Cream, and Sly, but you're the only one blatantly refusing to participate. Who do you suspect at least? Who would you like to see lynched and why? Also I'm in a hurry? How? Deadline is in 3 days, or maybe you missed that part.

[Mirth]

Not unless it comes down to you being the number one favoured person. For me its mainly because half the players aren't really active and you've been pushing the BG innocence thing so hard.

[Mirth]

Ummm, put your vote where you think it should go/would most likely ensure a lynch?

[Mirth]

If you have RL issues, then it would have been at least polite if you mentioned something like "I can't really post much due to RL issues" instead of simply vanishing for stretches at a time.

If you suspect me, please actually explain why. This post seems to suggest it's because I started a wagon on you and other people decided to go along with it. How this is a valid reason, I don't understand.

For the record, in your second post you accuse me of something that I do not do:

I say, Mirth did reprimand me about voting someone at random (her, in occurence). This sparked some conversation. Good. Now she votes Babygirl without shame...

and thereafter continue to insist that I'm against you. You never specified your vote was random. I asked you about it. You disappeared came back with this. I asked you about your word choice, as I most certainly did not reprimand you, you blew that off and tried to make it personal. I think you're more scummy than Rishi, and, while I'm not happy with the lack of reads I have on people, that is good enough for a forced deadline lynch, I believe.

[Mirth]

Probably, yes, but I don't think we actually have an "optimal" candidate. Also the condorcet thing may be null and void if Sly doesn't post anything.

[Mirth]

Give him one more day before claiming, if you can. If he shows up and votes, then your claim might be giving too much away (like you just possibly did)

[Mirth]

Only thing is we're never really gonna get a true majority because some people just aren't here.

[Mirth]

Nor is there a case on Rishi (except that he can be annoying).

BM

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Nah, BM is more annoying than you are.

[Mirth]

Joubert, I wouldn't be trailing it 20 pages if you answered me the first time I asked. But you didn't. And you still don't. Your only defense is that i "should put [my] pride aside"

[Mirth]

Mod: will this by any chance extend the deadline?


SlySly: if you read this, you're not my best friend anymore

[Mirth]

Mirth starts the agression against everything that moves. I have problems seeing this as an extremely agressive scum play as it usually generates much attention and hate from the people you attack. This probably tells me Mirth is just agressive scumhunting townie.

Except I'm also really aggressive when I'm scum too. I don't like how you're trying to find reasons to call people town.

Natirasha suggest babygirl to claim inmediately. Again I can see this as gatheting too much attention and a bad play for scum if babygirl were town or scum. This tells me Natirasha is prob town.

Nat was also looking for an excuse to out himself. Don't write him off as town yet either please. Wait until someone dies.

Chiefsky has some good posting at P2. He usually talks about the difficulty of geting 7 players to agree, although he seems to be very careful about his voting.

She's also noncommital and not really a participant of the discussion.

Natirasha claims a weak town role. That explains why he thinks there isnt vanilla townies and why he wanted to claim. Still doubtful but it can be tested.

Why doubtful if you said before you were sure he's town.

Now I have to get out something of my chest. Ive been bothered by Matt posting. I cant quote exactly what makes me feel this way. It probably has to be with the small posting and the subtle attacks he usually makes. I can be wrong but I had to write it.

In his case, small posts don't mean contentless posts.

Slysly jumps against babygirl. Nice resoning but bad play and I cant see scum doing that.

What, scum are infallible all of a sudden?

BM replaces Theo and my head starts to hurt. Rishi replaces babygirl and I still think he's town.

Shouldn't have thought of that in the first place.


BM: unless of course Sly/Sens is one of Joubert's partners. So I don't know. Tajo *is* blatantly neck deep in crap!logic, yes, but he really seems to actually believe his own crap!logic, which makes me much less sure of his alignment.

Mod: didn't you say the deadline was extended? your post doesn't show this?

[Mirth]

Gorrad isn't voting. He didn't unvote.

Since our deadline apparently got pushed back to Monday, I request you don't claim.

[Mirth]

he probably copied and pasted.
Even YOU dont seem to have the conviction of the Joubert wagon. I get the gut feeling that neither of them are scum, but we have to kill 1 of them.
I await the claim from Rishi.

BM

I don't have much of a conviction, no, but I would prefer a Joubert lynch to a Tajo lynch. As I said, Tajo is at least trying, even if he's too eager to trust people. Joubert isn't. (My main issue isn't just the lurking. My main issue is ignoring my initial question to him and then trying to twist my words around and *then* ignoring the question about that. I know he doesn't like it that I'm still going on about this, but if he answered me in the first place, I wouldn't be.)

[Mirth]

Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.

[Mirth]

Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.

rofl.

Or...NOT.

Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.

BM

You mean give him a choice like you are?

[Mirth]

Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.

rofl.

Or...NOT.

Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.

BM

You mean give him a choice like you are?

No, i mean give me the benefit of the doubt and give him the opportunity to make the choice. And stop fishing from me, when it clearly has no protown incentive.

BM

So "claim now because I said so" is a choice? I would hate to live in a world ruled by you, BM.

[Mirth]

Well it's ultimately his choice. Why don't you tell him your idea and then let him decide.

rofl.

Or...NOT.

Please quit butting in now, and give the guy a chance.

BM

You mean give him a choice like you are?

No, i mean give me the benefit of the doubt and give him the opportunity to make the choice. And stop fishing from me, when it clearly has no protown incentive.

BM

So "claim now because I said so" is a choice? I would hate to live in a world ruled by you, BM.

yes. he can claim, or he can not claim. I'm not going to outline the consequences of either action here, just because you said so. At least in a world ruled by me, we would achieve something. In a world ruled by you, the tiniest action taken by the people would be questionned by your good self, and nothing would ever get done. Being firm is sometimes necessary.

BM

There would never be a world ruled by me as I understand that I am not capable of such a task. I would abdicate in favor of some resurrected enlightened despot like Frederick or Peter.

[Mirth]

I am itching to unvote and vote BM or Sens right now for pushing a claim out of Rishi, but not pushing Joubert to claim. Especially BM for rather obviously trying to push the lynch until deadline and get Rishi lynched.

[Mirth]

You shouldn't have posted that.

[Mirth]

You shouldn't have posted that.

My hands were tied. If I wanted to save myself, what do you think I should I have done?

Not given BM any more info that he doesn't need. Note how he didnt mention the plan to save you that he supposedly has

[Mirth]

I am itching to unvote and vote BM or Sens right now for pushing a claim out of Rishi, but not pushing Joubert to claim.

I asked for a claim from both, in one sentence. I did not push either, really, but I did push equally.

Mirth, are you admitting you made a mistake in calling me out?

Yes, sorry, still not a fan of you (or Nat) asking for claims from Rishi. I am mostly concerned with BM though.

BM: if you think I'm an idiot, I'm not going to dissuade you. As I said, think what you want, but keep it in your pants. I think you're trying to break the game. If you have a list and can figure out how it works, gamebreaking is theoretically possible.

By the way, Joubert posted after he was already L-1. So he has had no reason not to claim, unlike Rishi. (And Joubert, as to what I asked you, you could go look that up yourself. "Look it up for me" is not an adequate reason to avoid answering.)

[Mirth]

I'm not being tunnelvisioned.

Oh wow. It's like the second time you've said this, in this game alone. It is truly a testament to your ability at this game called Mafia, that your time spent here on MafiaScum can adequately culminate in a 'penis' joke.

Not a penis joke and not meant as such. Just a phrase I tend to use a lot in normal speech in reference to things like sarcasm and hostility and such things.

I think you're trying to break the game. If you have a list and can figure out how it works, gamebreaking is theoretically possible.

Do i look like Adel to you? lol
I'm not trying to break anything. But, i am trying to validate as many claims as possible. What makes you think i'd have a better chance of working out how the games works than you or anyone else, anyway?

I have never played with Adel, so I don't understand the reference. I don't know if you'd have a better chance, but you're the only one so gung ho about getting all the info you can out of Rishi.

By the way, Joubert posted after he was already L-1. So he has had no reason not to claim, unlike Rishi. (And Joubert, as to what I asked you, you could go look that up yourself. "Look it up for me" is not an adequate reason to avoid answering.)

Wait, are you trying to tell me that Rishi had a reason not to claim? Jesus, it's non-stop with you isn't it!?
In the same manner as Rishi, Joubert too has a choice. He can claim, or he can not claim. The result of either action is fairly self-explanatory.

BM

Rishi had a perfectly good reason not to claim, and seeing what his role is, t'would have been better if he didn't.

[Mirth]

Considering he blatantly ignored the request for a claim, I think he might have been.

=======================================

Page 23 Votecount

Non-Jurors:

**Rishi: (0/7)
Joubert: (7/7) {Mirth, malthusis, Cream147, ChiefSkye4, Gorrad, SensFan, Battle Mage}
Matt_S: (0/7)
Natirasha: (0/7)
populartajo: (0/7)

Jurors

ChiefSkye4: (0/6, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/6, 0/1)
Gorrad: (0/6, 0/1)
malthusis: (0/6, 1/1) Rishi
Mirth: (0/6, 1/1) Joubert
SensFan: (0/6, 1/1) Matt_S
Battle Mage: (0/6, 0/1)

Not Voting: (2/12) Natirasha, populartajo

Deadline for D1: Monday July 7, 6:15PM GMT+10
=======================================

[Mirth]

Considering he blatantly ignored the request for a claim, I think he might have been.

...you mean... in the same way Rishi did? lol

Except Rishi acknowledged people wanted him to claim, he just refused Joubert actively ignored it.

[Mirth]

Good game, was keeping up with it after I died. (Thanks, Sens, btw, I'm just curious what would make you think I'd push a lynch of my scum partner when there a) wasn't really enough to convict him, b)were other candidates the town preferred, and c)he came up scum.)

I don't know how the second list was determined, and I don't know how Tajo did his, but I think I can explain why BabyGirl was the defendant day 1: The list I sent in night 0 was done alphabetically of the original 12 players.

Night 0 list:
1. babygirl86
2. ChiefSkye4
3. Cream147
4. Gorrad
5. Joubert
6. MafiaSSK
7. malthusis
8. Mirth
9. Natirasha
10. populartajo
11. SlySly
12. theopor_COD

Night 1 I sent in 2 lists, the second a revision of the first, since the mod said I could revise up to the night's end.

The original list:
1.Battle Mage
2.Natirasha
3.Populartajo
4.Malthusis
5.SensFan
6.Gorrad
7.Cream147
8.ChiefSkye4
9.Matt_S
10.Rishi
11.Mirth

The second revised list:
1.Natirasha
2. Sensfan
3. Battle Mage
4.Populartajo
5.Malthusis
6.Gorrad
7.Cream147
8.ChiefSkye4
9.Matt_S
10. Mirth
11. Rishi

I was having a hard time picking between Nat, who's claim I never bought, and BM for defending Joubert. I decided I wanted Nat dead over BM because his claim was total crap.

I do not understand why Nat felt the need to make not 1, but 2 totally insane claims, completely out of nowhere.

[Mirth]

Could you post role pms and night choices please (including lists.)

Also, while reading along, I was positive Matt was town. Struck me as obvtown day 1. The rest of y'all? Not at all.

[Mirth]

I didn't think Matt was lurking either. I had him near the bottom of my suspect list night 1. His comments were short but a lot more insightful than a lot of the other stuff posted.