Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Glork]

dramonic, who not named you should I sheep?

[Glork]

Angry Tierce is scary.

Vote: Tierce

[Glork]

By the way, my vote was in no way random.

[Glork]

Or arbitrary. Or not-game-related.


It's a good vote.

[Glork]

I think she'd call out UN's playstyle regardless of her alignment. Widespread frustration with a player is not limited to alignment.

[Glork]

This is an excellent wagon.

Dram, you should tell me to sheep Quil. Then I can continue voting Tierce.

[Glork]

Guys, can we not let this game degenerate into nitpicky one-on-one poopoo slapfights already, and please place more emphasis on lynching Tierce?


xoxo,
Glork

[Glork]

I'm not really at liberty to discuss my Tiercevote in detail.

What I will say is that there is a disturbingly high density of words that might not mean anything, and a disturbingly low density of trying-to-find-scum in her eight posts to date.

[Glork]

I'm not really at liberty to discuss my Tiercevote in detail.

What I will say is that there is a disturbingly high density of words that might not mean anything, and a disturbingly low density of trying-to-find-scum in her eight posts to date.

Are you a neighbor with her and she didn't say anything in your QT?

Hahahahahah. No. The entirety of my reason for voting Tierce comes from words she has posted in this game thread.

[Glork]

I'm not really at liberty to discuss my Tiercevote in detail.

What I will say is that there is a disturbingly high density of words that might not mean anything, and a disturbingly low density of trying-to-find-scum in her eight posts to date.

Are you a neighbor with her and she didn't say anything in your QT?

Tierce, why did you choose to omit the last sentence of Post 110 while commenting on the first sentence of said post?

[Glork]

EBWOP: Quoting fail. Ignore that.

[Glork]

I'm not really at liberty to discuss my Tiercevote in detail.

What I will say is that there is a disturbingly high density of words that might not mean anything, and a disturbingly low density of trying-to-find-scum in her eight posts to date.

Are you a neighbor with her and she didn't say anything in your QT?

For what it's worth, ML I'm protown, and need to find a certain role.

I'm fairly certain that I don't want to kill/remove them, though. I don't know if the scums want to kill/remove them or not.

[Glork]

Okay, something is seriously wrong with the forums. Every time I try to quote a post in reply, it quotes DDD's post. Going to clear cache, etc., and see if that fixes the problem.

[Glork]

I'm not really at liberty to discuss my Tiercevote in detail.

What I will say is that there is a disturbingly high density of words that might not mean anything, and a disturbingly low density of trying-to-find-scum in her eight posts to date.

Are you a neighbor with her and she didn't say anything in your QT?

Clarifying a few things for people.

ML: DDD noticed my early, non-random vote for Tierce and was referencing his own non-random vote for mikehart in the recently completed The League Mafia, where he caught his neighbor as scum before the game officially started. He was making a joke-reference to that. Nothing more.

Dram: Nope, not fucking retarded. The scum have no idea who I am, who I'm looking for, or if either of us are people they are after. I'm not really worried about giving away too much information here, and I am interested in stopping "this player seems to be looking for a specific role" as a scumtell, because it's likely to lead down all sorts of terrible paths.

Spyre: I don't think so?




I'm not really interested in voting Tammy right now. I'd much rather puruse this Tierce thing. There are holes in her behavior, and I want to explore them before that window closes. So yeah, I'm going to reneg on my commitment to sheep whomever you tell me to sheep. Sorry.


PEDIT: OH GOD, PEOPLE HAVE TO LOOK FOR OTHER PEOPLE. CLEARLY THIS IS GIVING AWAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION THAT THE SCUMS COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE INFERRED ON THEIR OWN ALREADY BASED ON THE WIN CONDITION PROVIDED BY THE MODERATOR. Calm down, Dram.

[Glork]

I'm not really at liberty to discuss my Tiercevote in detail.

What I will say is that there is a disturbingly high density of words that might not mean anything, and a disturbingly low density of trying-to-find-scum in her eight posts to date.

Are you a neighbor with her and she didn't say anything in your QT?

Fire Emblem is flavorful. Claiming you're "looking for someone" severely limits who you can be when we have a general idea who is scum and who is town from a flavor standpoint.
We being those with flavour knowledge.

Based on the win condition listed by the mod, I'd say this is more of a game mechanic than a flavor issue which would give away character information. I understand your paranoia, but I think it is unfounded.

[Glork]

I called you out on a bad reads list, explained why I thought it was scummy, and you... think I'm scum as a result?

Actually, this sounds about right.

I would love for you to explain why you took an RVS list commenting on a bunch of RVS votes and decided it came from scum trying to overjustify themselves.

[Glork]

EVERYBODY FUCKING STOP RIGHT NOW AND READ THIS POST.


The first win condition is the general protown win condition:

*As a member of the majority, you win when the Daein Resistance has been subdued and one person with this Win Condition still lives.

The scond win condition is the scum (Daein Resistance) win condition.

*Per Micaiah's plan, you win when one member of your faction is alive and the following roles have been removed from the game.

Note that they do not have to gain a majority of the town's population to win (although if they gain a majority, they will win because killing their targets will be inevitable).
They ONLY need to find and eliminate a certan subset of players among the town.


Because of this, ML thought that DDD was fishing in a manner that made him likely to have the scum win condition.

I (and several others) have pointed out that protown players are also seeking specific roles.

It is reasonable to assume that, barring the existence of a second scumgroup or a traitor, Daerin people are looking for protown roles to eliminate them.
We have no idea whether the protown seekers' targets are protown, scum, or otherwise.
We also have no idea whether the protown seekers' targets are also Daerin Resistance targets.




Are there any questions.

[Glork]

I called you out on a bad reads list, explained why I thought it was scummy, and you... think I'm scum as a result?

Actually, this sounds about right.

I would love for you to explain why you took an RVS list commenting on a bunch of RVS votes and decided it came from scum trying to overjustify themselves.

I've done so:

What's bullshit about it, Tierce?

Making a list like this at the stage in the game when you made it (Post 22) as town is absurd, especially when you bother listing players as

null

out of RVS votes. Town doesn't really find a need to classify players they don't yet have a read on, while scum would be more likely to present null-reads to show 'effort'.

I'm willing to be that I can find an example where a player in RVS called someone else null and you didn't bat an eyelash. Why is it a big deal here, and what made you think that Quil's list was in any way different from any other RVS post made, aside from the fact it commented on everyone who had posted?
As of Post 23, what actually made Quil

scum

, and not someone who was just being a goof on Page 1?

[Glork]

@Glork: I have one question! What was that post supposed to accomplish? You didn't point out anything that wasn't already obvious... =/

If you'd read Tierce's and Tammy's posts, it's apparent that there's some confusion as to who is trying to accomplish what in this game. I was clarifying for their (and possibly others') sake.

HOW can they PoE me? They know that a part of my role involves looking for someone. They also know that a part of at least two other players' roles involve looking for someone. There are SO many characters in the FE universe (even if we just narrow it down to Path of Radiance / Radiant Dawn) that PoEing me is going to be next to impossible before midgame/lategame, at which point "Glork is looking for someone" would probably have been made public anyway. It is far more likely that scum will identify town roles via information abillies than by a couple of people claiming to be part of a mechanic that was going to be made obvious by like D2 at the latest.

[Glork]

Unvote

, actually.

[Glork]

Not answering. A part of my role involves another character whose identity I do not know. Assuming that charater is not similar to R2-D2 in nature, I don't see an immediate need to elaborate otherwise.

[Glork]

Okay, sheeping Oman time.

Vote: Tammy

Bed now. Work in... 4.5 hours. Ugh.

[Glork]

Tierce, are you scum? Don't lie to me, please.

If you do, I will make it my personal life's work to join every game you're in, and lynch the shit out of you every single time.

Tierce has a ~1.5% chance of being scum.

[Glork]

@Spyre just4u babe

Just thought it might be neat to visualize it. Not 100% accurate of course and I probably missed alot, but eh.

Spoiler:

Annoyed that I'm not in "everybody loves tierce".


Also, why are people sheeping me? Do they know I haven't played in years? I AM NOT A BAROMETER ANY MORE, especially not for ex Paragons.

I asked dramonic who I should sheep and he said Oman. *shrug*

[Glork]

Vote: UberNinja

[Glork]

Tierce, I've been around the block enough times. Being split in what you SAY about a person's alignment and what you DO regarding that person is a massive scum tell. See: SocioPath in Insane Asylum Mafia (I think. I'll have to double check that when I get home).

[Glork]

I've seen Glorktown act like this, but...

FOS: Glork

Really.

Really.

[Glork]

Glork

– why would you bother to care who Dramonic wants you sheep?

Because dramonic is the name I arbitrarily ("randomly" to most) picked out before I started reading the thread.

[Glork]

Also,

VOTE: Tierce

Tierce's complete and utter confusion over flavor / win conditions is very likely genuine, as I'd expect her to tighten up the flavor screws before the game started if she were scum. Please move your vote somewhere more useful. Hell, I'd rather it be on

me

than Tierce at this point.

[Glork]

Tierce's complete and utter confusion over flavor / win conditions is very likely genuine, as I'd expect her to tighten up the flavor screws before the game started if she were scum. Please move your vote somewhere more useful. Hell, I'd rather it be on me than Tierce at this point.

Well I read all 10 pages over an hour period while taking notes. With that in mind ... can you link me to the post where Tierce shows ignorance of the Wincon? I have little time to dredge her ISO at the current time. Thanks!

Post 154 is some genuine blissful ignorance.

Also,

VOTE: Tierce

Tierce's complete and utter confusion over flavor / win conditions is very likely genuine, as I'd expect her to tighten up the flavor screws before the game started if she were scum. Please move your vote somewhere more useful. Hell, I'd rather it be on

me

than Tierce at this point.

At what point before you unvoted did you figure this out? The uptake was pretty late.

There was a lot of ninjaposting, but only 16 minutes elapsed between Tierce's Post 154 and my unvote in Post 170. 16 posts chock full of content in 16 minutes? Yeah, I'm not sure how you can say the uptake was late there. As soon as I had a chance to process it, I decided that Tierce wasn't scum.


PEdit: I like Zdenek's Hinduvote here.

[Glork]

Glork

– why would you bother to care who Dramonic wants you sheep?

Because dramonic is the name I arbitrarily ("randomly" to most) picked out before I started reading the thread.

Do you usually do that? And then on top of that, do you usually listen to the aforementioned person?

If I'm going to sheep in RVS, usually I just pick someone and ask them who I should vote for. This time, I picked someone and asked them who I should sheep. Functionally, it's basically the same thing.


If somebody wants to explain why we're spending this much time on Glork's RVS behavior, I'm all ears. I feel like a lot of people could be putting their time to much better use, and that's not just because

I'm

the one being questioned here.

[Glork]

Vote: Tierce

X

Is scum Glork even lynchable?

Scum Glork is probably about as lynchable as town Glork is. But hey, fun fact: ScumGlork has been crosskilled more than he's been lynched.

Glork

What do you like about Zdenek's vote on Hinduragi? Do you always tend to sheep in RVS? Other than the sheeping in RVS, you seem similar to another game of yours so you're town right now.

It seems decently well thought-out, appropriate, and might lead somewhere. A good vote.
I don't always sheep in RVS. I never begin a game with any particular notion of what I'm going to do. Maybe it depends on my mood when the game starts or when I first get a chance to post? I really don't know. I've never had any rhyme or reason to what I do during RVS. Sometimes I sheep. Sometimes I just "randomly" vote someone. Sometimes I try to work my way out of RVS quickly. Occasionally I lurk. There's really no thought process behind what goes into my first post (unless I'm replacing into an ongoing game, obviously).



This Tammywagon really bores me. It seems like it's made up almost entirely of people who have nothing better to do with their votes, and are content to just park it there, sheep, or plop down a vote for general scumminess without any real reasoning. I'm not sure there's more than maybe 1 scum on Tammy right now, but I don't think it's a good wagon. Can some of Tammy's wagoners please sum up exactly why the are on her, in an easy-to-find manner?

In fact, I think most of the top three wagons are garbage. I know that Tammy and Tierce aren't good wagons, and I can't really get a good handle on UN's play.

Also, a personal confession. I find myself mentally checking out of almost everything that doesn't relate directly to me. This game has moved at a pretty frantic pace (13 pages in just over a day?), and I don't really have the time or energy to keep up with every little thing right now.

Unvote
Vote: Hinduragi

Sure, why not.

[Glork]

Ludi used SPAM

Its super effective!

Alchemist used GUT!

Its not very effective...

Ludi used OMGUS and FAKEVOTE

Its not very effective...

Alchemist used TRUTH

Critical damage!

Ludi used DODGE!

Its not very effective

At work. Have not read last 2-3 pages much at all. Jumping Alchemist wagon for this alone.

Vote: Alchemist

[Glork]

This is sort of insulting. I haven't spammed anything, I've tried to post and question to figure out people's alignments. None of my votes have been fake or without merit, and i've explained each one. I have several points against you. And i'd like to know which questions I've been dodging. I've answered anything you've asked.

I don't really see this post coming from town trying to figure out my alignment, (or anyone else's alignment in the game either.) You've thrown down a questionable vote (in direct contrast with your opening post promising calculation and reason), posted a whole hell of a lot without saying anything, and have accused me of things which are patently untrue.

you've spammed the thread in your own way.

did I hurt your feelings? are you going to play the wounded soldier now?

1)posted a whole hell of a lot without saying anything yea okay
2)accused you of things which are patently untrue okay where
3)i've already figured out your alignment its scum
4)i think you are scum therefore its questionable, LOL
5)my recent post, you've dodged it entirely
6)yeah bro your case on me is totally legit okay, lets let the crowd decide that

This entire post is just awful.

[Glork]

Not trying to assassinate anyone's character. However, the manner in which you've made each of your last two posts are far more typically characteristics of scum posting, not town posting. Trying to whip the town into a frenzy using poor insults and fruitless taunting are very characteristic of scum who want people to stop paying attention to the content of an argument and start playing on emotion.

Your last two posts strongly suggest that you are scum. If that's "character assassination" (interesting choice of words, by the way), so be it. But you need to die, sooner rather than later.

[Glork]

I don't like the Alchemist votes. They're disingenuous and lazy.

That's nice.

[Glork]

Timeater, can you provide three examples where you've used this kind of rhetoric as town in the last? Also, can you please link me to your last two completed games as scum?

If this is just who you are and not a hallmark of caughtscum, I'd really like to know. Thanks in advance.

[Glork]

EBWOP: "in the past"... Phone posting fail.

[Glork]

Also, rampant OMGUS is not very becoming of you.

[Glork]

Major FoS: ToastyToast

[Glork]

Did you not get from my first post that there were three people I found suspicious. Good God the stupidity.

Your top three suspicion list is literally a steaming bowl of shit.

[Glork]

In fact,

Vote: ToastyToast

.

This guy's the play today. I promise. Everyone sheep me before it's too late!

[Glork]

Bee Tee Dubs, UN, note that Alchemist is the omission of his top three.

I swear to god, if Toasty dies as scum, Alchemist is getting lynched/vigged immediately.

[Glork]

Bee Tee Dubs, UN, note that Alchemist is the omission of his top three. I swear to god, if Toasty dies as scum, Alchemist is getting lynched/vigged immediately.

You're missing the context. His 3 scum reads of Tammy/UN/Tierce were created about 8ish or so pages ago when there was no wagon on Alchemist meaning his scum-reads were on the wagons that occurred then, not now meaning there's no connection between his FoS's and Alchemist.

Duly noted.

Still, the shit top 3 is a bona fide scumtell. Toasty dies first.

[Glork]

Did you not get from my first post that there were three people I found suspicious. Good God the stupidity.

Your top three suspicion list is literally a steaming bowl of shit.

How do expect me to respond to this? Would you prefer I just make up some scumreads on people who aren't being voted? I don't think my scumreads are shitty, and so I'm keeping them. The three of them are in a circle of "I know you before this game" and "I am like this in other games" and I don't like it. To me this is the singlemost suspicious thing in the game thus far. I'm sorry you don't like them, but quite frankly I think its a pretty damn good lead to start with this early into the game.

I don't expect you to respond to it. I expect you to die.

Seriously. When a player's top 3 suspicion list is exactly the top 3 votegetters in the game, 99% of the time (yes, this is rhetoric, fuck you all) it means that they're scum who are willng to ride any easy wagon to mislynch. It's a hallmark of lazy scum who can't (or simply choose not to) actually hunt for scum on their own. They are content to "find" the most widely-suspected people scummy. Sometimes.

Sometimes

it comes from very, very weak town who are just incapable of scumhunting on their own. But a vast majority of the time, it's from scum who want to look like they are scumhunting, look like they are contributing, but really just want to get through the day by lynching someone else, as long as they don't attract a lot of attention.

Unfortuantely for you, this tell is a HUGE one in my book, and when I notice it, I tend not to let it go.



But fine, let's try to expand your mind a little. Please think about -- I mean,

really

put some thought into -- these three questions, and provide answers for me at your earliest convenience.

How do you feel about Nikanor? Why?
How do you feel about Oversoul? Why?
If Haze were dayvigged right now, and flipped scum, who do you think would be most likely to be his scumbuddy? Why?

[Glork]

Good. I never liked baby Jesus anyway.

Note Glork's play towards me the past few pages. He thinks I'm a bothersome bit of dandruff he can sweep off his shoulder. Well guess what. I ain't no dandruff. I'm a bloodsucking mite carrying lethal diseases that will never let go. :3 IMO the Toasty thing is just a nice distraction from his evasive/scummy play. He latched on to it desperately. Even throwing his weight around a little with "Everyone sheep me before it's too late!" But thats just my opinion. Dup, search your feelings. Stop making excuses for Glork's play. There is a reason for it. And ANYWAY. Thanks for reminding me. I'm starting to post too much, aren't I? Sorry. My best scumreads are Ludi, Glork, and Spyre.

I got some extremely strong townreads but I wont list them atm. If you read through my ISO you can probably figure out who they are. Okay. Now that thats out of the way, I've said what I've wanted to say - I wont post for a day or so. There. Not gonna spam the thread. Ohhmmm. Ohmmm. Ohmmm.

For the record, throwing a bunch of rhetoric around might work in games with overall weak playerlists, but you're probably wasting your words here. I've committed two definitive towntells (neither of which were even pointed out by me, but I would agree that they are towntells), and the reason I eased up on you should be obvious -- because someone answered my meta concern (that blowing a lot of steam with little actual substance) is typical for you as town.

If you really want to go thorugh the motions, I don't mind bantering with you for a while and feeding you a giant helping of humble pie in postgame, but if you want to build an actual case against me, with evidence of

why

my play so far is

scummy

, you'd best get around to doing it.


Sidenote -- This sentence:

Even throwing his weight around a little with "Everyone sheep me before it's too late!"

makes me wonder if you've ever actually read me before, despite your claim of respect for me.
If you want to understand Glork throwing his weight around, please read the paragraph of this post that starts with "Furthremore, ..."
Throwing my weight around is what I

do

. It is the very definition of glorkian play. True in 2008. True in 2012.

[Glork]

TIERCE IS NOT SCUM, PLEASE PUT YOUR VOTE SOMEWHERE USEFUL.

Also interested to see a response from singer re: gamma's 447.

[Glork]

Ludi, look in the first half of the wall. There was some confusion about the wincondition that I want you to clarify.

Glork, why is Tierce town?

Already been over this. Do some legwork, please.

[Glork]

Confusion bit + pseudo softclaim + the fact that it's pretty widely known that Tierce is very uncomfortable playing scum.

They just do not add up to TierceScum. In any universe.

[Glork]

Elaborate?

[Glork]

Elaborate?

Paranoia Mafia - she played dumb town
Paranoia Mafia - she bussed me early day 1 over something miniscule (I said I didn't read the role Pm or something like that)
Paranoia Mafia - she backed down off voting me once others pressured her + came to my defense

Mafia Behind the Maiden - she is "confused" about something that is pretty clear (roles = characters = players)
Mafia Behind the Maiden - she is going after Quilford for something rather miniscule, a mastinesque list of reads
Mafia Behind the Maiden - she backed down off Quilford after people called him town + started pressuring her

First point is tangential at best.
I'm looking at Paranoia and failing to see where she's playing dumb. She's doing a lot of question-asking, but that's not remotely the same as playing dumb. (Note: She's not shoving an onslaught of questions down players' throats here.) If you're talking about something specific she did early in Paranoia to feign ignorance, please link me the post(s) specifically.

Second point I can see; it's also why I suspected her pretty significantly early on. Her going after Quil was just awful.

Third point can go either way. Either town or scum could find motivation to move off of a bad vote. Heck, I've changed my mind mulitple times already.



Mostly, though, Tierce's

tone

is completely different here than it was in Paranoia. She's more indignant here, whereas her posts from Paranoia seem... calculated? TierceTown generally doesn't give a rat's ass how she is percieved. TierceScum has to.

I'm still not buying TierceScum right now. I'm willing to consider the possibility that her scumplay is evolving more rapidly than I'd expect, but I really don't think she's the play right now.


Incidentally, Oversoul, what is your opinion of ToastyToast?

PEdit: Less random spamposts, please. This thread is already getting way too big way too quickly, and scum are going to use it as an excuse to hide in the shadows.

[Glork]

Oh, what the hell. That was obvious enough to anyone familiar with Fire Emblem and any scum worth their mettle will realize who the trio is.

I'm Rolf. If Oscar and Boyd (or other Greil Mercenaries) are out there and can neighborize/masonize/whatever, HAI I'M HERE.

If not, well--carry on.

What the hell, Tierce? If you're one of the scums' targets, this is completely beyond retarded. If you're not one of the scums' targets, you've just given them a name of someone not to shoot.

[Glork]

Oh, what the hell. That was obvious enough to anyone familiar with Fire Emblem and any scum worth their mettle will realize who the trio is.

I'm Rolf. If Oscar and Boyd (or other Greil Mercenaries) are out there and can neighborize/masonize/whatever, HAI I'M HERE.

If not, well--carry on.

All right Tierce can be town from recent posts. However, this has been bothering me all weekend. MoI, please explain why you seem so certain what the scum wincon is in your question to Spyrex. kthnxbai!

vote: MoI:

VOTE: Tierce

Questions –

DDD

– why did you choose to sheep Spyrex as opposed to Glork?

Spyrex

– given the scum wincon why should Post 139 not be met with immediate rope?

Glork

– why would you bother to care who Dramonic wants you to sheep?

Singersinger and Oversoul

– with the thread being open less than 24 hours and some people not active on weekends regularly why are both of you worried about why some players have yet to post?

Please tell me you're joking. The scum win condition is listed in the mod's pre-game posts. Stop being stupid.

[Glork]

OH GOOD, THE QUOTING BUG AGAIN.

Fucking fuck.

[Glork]

Glork, I derped hard when I called out the number of roles I am looking for. There wasn't much point in hiding it from then on. :/ If they actually exist, I don't want the other two players to claim, but if they can neighborize/masonize, here I am, this is me, etc.

I can think of two other groups-of-three in the FE:PoR/FE:RD. Your identity may have been obvious to you, because you were a part of a specific group of three, but it wasn't going to be obvious to anybody else. Hell, in the Triangle Attack you listed in the wiki, one of the other triplets from Path of Radiance is

listed directly below Rolf/Boyd/Oscar

. As far as I'm concerned, you're

still

derping hard. Shape up.

[Glork]

Also, with "players looking for players" as a mechanic, there's a very good chance that the scums have one (or more) watcher/tracker abilities. If they use said abilities on you, you're outing even MORE townroles to the scums.

You know I heart you, but seriously, get your shit together.

[Glork]

Fucking fuck.

Oversoul, of course my stuff in Paranoia was engineered to look town. I was

scum

and the only place I was being transparent on was the scum QT, where I laid all my cards down and wasn't on strategilurk mode.

Maybe realize that I don't have to 'try' because this behavior comes naturally

because I'm town

?

Can you please reconcile these two quotes? Obivously you had success engineering townplay in Paranoia, as you survived and won.

How exactly do you expect us to discern "EngineeredTierceTown" from "GenuineTierceTown"?

[Glork]

Oversoul, how the hell is her death certain? If I'm scum and Rolf isn't one of the characters I have to kill, there's no way in hell I spend a nightkill on that slot. Are you even thinking before ou spout this kind of ridiculous nonsense?

[Glork]

Grey: Read 430, 436, 437, 448, and then vote Toasty.

Caveat: I haven't read his latest big post which actually looks like it may contain real content.




Will reply to Timeater when I get home from work, but yeah, there's a lot wrong with your "case."

[Glork]

Whee, okay.

I elected not to go into detail about my initial vote, which was completely intentional. History shows (and any one of like 15-20 people in this game can confirm) that this is a VERY common thing for Glork to do. Getting people to react to a vote without knowing entirely why that vote was placed is a tactic that generally only works when used by experienced/accomplished scumhunters, but it's a damned good one *if* it's used well. I pointed to two posts as the reason for placing my vote.

Dramonic actually hit the nail on the head with his Post 578 (by the way, Tim, Post Tags are your friend):

Perception: You`re trying to get valorization from that post more than actually trying to show that Glork is scum.
That`s how I see it.

This is exactly what he did with ML that led me to vote him to begin with.

Post 380 is/was a post where you spent most of your time and energy into trying to make your argument look... idk, cute? appealing? amusing?... I'm not exactly sure what the best word to use here is. Regardless, the format was obviously intended to do *something*, and the fact that you put so much into it without really fleshing out any kind of argument or making any inquiry to further asses ML's alignment/position gave off an "I'm using rhetoric, but not bothering to scumhunt" feeling.

This is a scumtell.

I voted you, and then you posted Post 386. Your first sentence is awful and hypocritical. I looked at Activity Overview, and at that point I believe 6 players, including you, had made more posts than ML, including doozies such as Post 18 (RVS, excusable), Post 64, Post 149, Post 179, and Post 236. There's obviously been a complete lack of effort on your part to contribute, so when you make a post that is 90% cutesy word choice and 10% actual tangible content, it's plenty enough to raise an eyebrow.
You then CONTINUE with the rhetoric, with the "hurt feelings" and "wounded soldier" nonsense, when browbeating isn't remotely appropriate.
His Point 1 is true (again, see the posts I linked to, where you DO post a lot without really saying anything). His point 2, I hadn't had a chance to go back and assess, so I skipped over it. Point 3 -- your "I already figured out your alignment" comment is completely worthless, becuase it's not a statement anyone can take at face value -- it accomplishes NOTHING (just like the posts I had linked to). Point 4: See Point 3. Point 5, he hasn't been any more dodgy than you have been at this point. Point 6 is nothing but an Appeal to Majority, which... oh yeah, another scumtell.

So yeah. That entire post was awful. Just like in Post 386, there was needless fluff/rhetoric, and what little content you *did* provide got lost among your attempts to "play socially" as you'd like to put it.


The best I could get was that your

choice

of language was to evoke some kind of emotional response, becuase you had little in the way of actual evidence/proof to make an actual, logical case against ML.

Your response was another pile of fluff (..."orgy"? Really? Where the fuck did you even get that word from as it relates to my post or your behavior?), at which point I thought "okay, is this really what this idiot does all the time" (Cue: Tim accusing me of ad hom again here, but I really was thinking that you were a complete moron at the time. Sorry.)
So I did what Glork often does. I sought meta references. I asked Tim to provide examples where he's been an obnoxious, wordy orator rather than someone who plays mafia using traditonal logic and scumhunting. Apparently, in your most recent big post against me, that amounts to "calling you a politiican." Again, if that's the choice of words you wish to use, go right ahead. What I

was

doing was trying to understand whether this was really a scumtell coming from you, or if you're just naturally scummy.

After that, someone (EDIT: Yes, Duplicity in Post 409) confirmed that yes, this is in fact a "feature" of your playstyle.

I pretty much dropped it at that pont and haven't really pursued a Timeater wagon since.

Sooooo yeah.



By the bye, this:

6. Based on just this experience ALONE, I feel I have enough for a scumGlork case.

pretty much undermines your entire case. You flat-out admit that you haven't taken anything else into account, which is a big part of the issue. It's really hard to sit here and watch you ask people to assess the "logical validity" of your argument when your argument is not only extremely selective, but based entirely on (flawed) speculation about the thoughts and motives behind the three posts you chose to attack.




I find it fascinating that, after using appeal to majority against ML, you've used the same thing here, asking several people to weigh in on your case against me before I can have a chance to respond.
I also find it interesting that you chose to stop your case where you did, ignoring my post where I debunked your "Glork's throwing his weight around" argument in Post 451, or Duplicity's confirmation of said playstyle in Post 481.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Addendum. Timeater, can you please read Duplicity's assessment of me in Post 481 and comment on it? Twice -- TWICE, including with you -- I reigned myself in and chose to dig a little deeper into whether someone I suspected was scum, just to doublecheck my gut. Both times I wound up changing my mind. Do you think this is a hallmark of scumplay, despite Dupe's assessment that it fits GlorkTown to a tee? If so, why?

[Glork]

@Alchemist:

Here's the thing. My desire to lynch Glork D1 is low because if he's town, he'll die N1. It's a lot like Magna. Come back and visit him if he's alive D3 or D4.

Efffff Ohhhhh Essssss

Really getting tired of the "if Glork doesn't die N1 he's scum" arguments.

I didn't die before N3 in MLP Mafia.
I didn't die until like D6 in WINvitational.
I didn't die until N3 in Blood Bowl.
I didn't die at all in League.


Yawn.



Yawn yawn yawn. Kill Glork N1 is old hat. Glork gets protected enough (League, Blood Bowl) to discourage scum killing me.


Next person who says I'm scum for not dying early is eating a fucking bullet. I promise you.

[Glork]

^^^ btw, those four games I pointed out are the only four completed games I've had since coming back to the site.

[Glork]

@Alchemist:

Here's the thing. My desire to lynch Glork D1 is low because if he's town, he'll die N1. It's a lot like Magna. Come back and visit him if he's alive D3 or D4.

Efffff Ohhhhh Essssss

Really getting tired of the "if Glork doesn't die N1 he's scum" arguments.

I didn't die before N3 in MLP Mafia.
I didn't die until like D6 in WINvitational.
I didn't die until N3 in Blood Bowl.
I didn't die at all in League.

Yawn.

Yawn yawn yawn. Kill Glork N1 is old hat. Glork gets protected enough (League, Blood Bowl) to discourage scum killing me.

Yeah, so, that's not what I said, but it's very interesting that you took it that way.

In fact, now that you took it that way, it reads to me as pre-planned defensive posturing on your end -- that you want to make sure to get this out there D1 instead of having to bring it up D3/D4.

Next person who says I'm scum for not dying early is eating a fucking bullet. I promise you.

Well, since you put it that way, I'll go ahead and say it: if Glork doesn't die N1, he's scum.

Go.

Do you know what a contrapositive is?

You explicitly said "If he's town, he will die N1."
The equivalent statement is "If he doesn't die N1, he is not town."

I interpreted your post that way, because that's what you said, logically speaking. Your initital statement was shit, and that's what my kneejerk (and yes, visceral, because it pisses me the fuck off almost as much as Burden of Proficiency) reaction was.




herp derp, logic is tech.

[Glork]

@Alchemist:

Here's the thing. My desire to lynch Glork D1 is low because if he's town, he'll die N1. It's a lot like Magna. Come back and visit him if he's alive D3 or D4.

Efffff Ohhhhh Essssss

Really getting tired of the "if Glork doesn't die N1 he's scum" arguments.

I didn't die before N3 in MLP Mafia.
I didn't die until like D6 in WINvitational.
I didn't die until N3 in Blood Bowl.
I didn't die at all in League.

Yawn.

Yawn yawn yawn. Kill Glork N1 is old hat. Glork gets protected enough (League, Blood Bowl) to discourage scum killing me.

Yeah, so, that's not what I said, but it's very interesting that you took it that way.

In fact, now that you took it that way, it reads to me as pre-planned defensive posturing on your end -- that you want to make sure to get this out there D1 instead of having to bring it up D3/D4.

Next person who says I'm scum for not dying early is eating a fucking bullet. I promise you.

Well, since you put it that way, I'll go ahead and say it: if Glork doesn't die N1, he's scum.

Go.

Gamma, that's exactly what he fucking meant. How can he say I chose to interpret his post a different way when he fucking SAID I'll be dead tonight if I'm town?

Every time I see that argument, I get visions of games such as Lights Out, where after leading two scumlynches in one day, the scums chose not to kill me specifically because Glork should have been the completely obivous kill because there were no protective roles and why on earth would anyone keep Glork alive? (The last scum said in postgame that he chose to keep me alive hoping that town would question why I was still alive.)

I've had to go through this fucking argument for 7 years, and I'm sick and tired of it popping up every 6-12 months. It's annoying as shit. So yeah, I'm shutting it down as soon as possible. I'd rather go through this shitstorm sooner rather than later. Goodness knows there are already enough retarded arguments distracting us from finding scum. What's one more to add to the mix?

[Glork]

OH GOOD, QUOTING BUG AGAIN. AGAIN.

[Glork]

Its like Glork knows I'm town but is entirely UNWILLING to say it or admit it.

I hadn't said it

explicitly

, but I'd implied it pretty heavily. But sure, I'll throw you a bone for once.

I think you're town.

I've thought you were town since the very second Duplicity said that this was how you play.

If you'd go back and read my posts, you'll notice an instantaneous change in attitude after that post.

[Glork]

Next person who says I'm scum for not dying early is eating a fucking bullet. I promise you.

You're scum if you don't die early.

You're already late to that party, champ.

[Glork]

You can all thank me later

Aether: Tierce

Worst. Play. Ever.

[Glork]

Oversoul, what would you say/do if I were to tell you that Tierce/Rolf was one of the people I'm looking for?

[Glork]

Let me know how that crow tastes later, champ.

In the meantime, could you please stop being shit at mafia and vote Toasty? Thanks.

[Glork]

Like, honestly, how the fuck does someone NOT put two and two together?

Glork: There are people who look for other people.
Tierce: I think I'm supposed to meet up with some other people.
Glork: Tierce is probstown.
Tierce: I'm Rolf.
Glork: TIERCE IS PROTOWN.
Oversoul: I am the worst player in mafia history.



Fuck this shit. I'm stepping away for a while. If by some miracle of god Tierce is scum, I will forever be indebted to OS. Don't see that happening though.

[Glork]

Glork have you ever given a Ludi read?

I'm impressed you held out as long as you did, OS.

I don't fucking care if I'm dead, you are going to answer why you made this comment.

What? If I had a dayvig I'd have been tempted to use it almost immediately. Nothing to do with you.

You are exactly what is wrong with 2012 site meta.

[Glork]

Wow... I didn't realize how many people actually despised my play. Maybe I wasn't cut out for this :/

Whatever. I stand behind my shot. If I didn't hit scum so be it, and I'll sheep Glork until the end of time and take my place next to the others on the Badkid pedestal.

I don't think people hate "your play" in general do much as they hate this specific play. I think at least a third of the active players felt Tierce was pretty solidly protown. You not only chose to go over their heads and kill said player, but you did so without giving anyone a chance to verify/condemn Tierce, and you outed yourself as a probable scumtarget in the process. I don't care how many other shitty players think its cool, fun, or smart to vig D1, but it's rarely a good idea. D1 actions are inherently the least informed, most random actions that can be taken, and it is to your advantage to use your ability in a manner here it is MOST likely to benefit the town. Even if Tierce were scum, would it have ruined anything to let her go to D2 so that someone had a chance to look into her fakeclaim?

I should strongly suggest that you use your other ability tonight, if possible. Anybody with half a brain can look up Aether and see that it's pretty much the exclusive property of Ike, who is the central character of these games. I have a hard time believing that you're not one of the scums' targets, so good job on that one, too.

[Glork]

All things said, I think it was a decent shot.

You also thought I was scum and think that vigging almost immediately on D1 is not one of the Top Five Worst Mafia Plays, so excuse me if I ignore your opinion for the remainder of this game.

[Glork]

Eh I thought Kuribo was in the game. Oh well.

At least I think I have a sheep target so things are all good. Gogo 2min townreads. XD

If you're going to sheep me, you might want to get that vote into ToastyToast sooner, rather than later.

[Glork]

Also, Tierce, I <3 you, even of you are going to have to be a Gobbie for me again. :/

[Glork]

All things said, I think it was a decent shot.

You also thought I was scum and think that vigging almost immediately on D1 is not one of the Top Five Worst Mafia Plays, so excuse me if I ignore your opinion for the remainder of this game.

More adhom from Glork surprise suprise

Just be quiet dude. Get off your high horse.

No thanks. I'm being

social

.

[Glork]

Honestly, I'm really not interested in an Uberlynch at this particular moment. I am interested in Kats.

I would also consider lynching MoI.

[Glork]

Btw, which MoI head is present at the moment?

[Glork]

Vote: Oversoul

[Glork]

He outed town roles for zero reason and has yet to provide a shred of insight or analysis from his "gabmit," and his vote is still on Tierce, who is 100% confirmed town at this point.

Even on the off-chance that this was a towngambit, Oversoul is clearly terrible enough to need to die. My vote isn't moving. Ever. In fact, I might just refuse to post any content whatsoever until he dies.

[Glork]

Alchemist it is actually much more like me lol

Well, that explains a lot.

Remember when I said I didn't hate your play in general, but I hated that particular play? Yeah, you can amend it to I hate your play in general. Welcome to the N1 policy vig list.

[Glork]

He didn't do anything like this in MLP Mafia (and

SHOULD

have learned from Whiskers' fucking retarded fake day ability), which is why I can't believe he would do this as town here.


He needs to fucking die. Immediately. His mere existence is hurting this town.

[Glork]

Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey.

Oversoul.

MLP Mafia.

Whiskers.

Why would you ever think this was anything but the worst fucking idea in the world?

[Glork]

When you fake daykill someone who 90% of the game thinks is protown, and send another player who 90% of the game thinks is protown into a mad scramble, and fail to provide any protown beneift from said "gambit" whatosever? Yeah. It's basically the same fucking thing.

[Glork]

So grats, if you're actually town, you finally caught up with the rest of the class and learned that Tierce is protown. Have a fucking cookie.

[Glork]

You have 10 minutes to claim Ike.
You have 10 minutes to claim what your other power is.

Serious question.

At this point, would you believe him if he said "I am Ike" or "I am not Ike"?
At this point, would you believe any abilities he claimed to have?

[Glork]

The derping is like you (cant remember the game, what was it, some guy with a panda avatar. Whatever)

What isn't like you is making something like 4-5 mistakes on one page. Why would you asked Tierce if she was a BP if you knew you were gambitting? Whats the point? Rewind to a page or so back "Tierce, I'm so sorry".

LEL WAT

imo the gambit comment was a quick mistake, you werent thinking about it (it was a derp, if you will, hue hue), and now you are backpeddling like a motherfucker

unvote
Vote: Oversoul

You have 10 minutes to claim Ike.
You have 10 minutes to claim what your other power is.

(HINT: The answer should be no.)

[Glork]

Honestly, it seems like half of you were happier with Tierce dying. Like what the hell is that?

Who was? Names/Posts, please.

[Glork]

Dear Scumbags,
Oversoul is still Ike. Please nightkill him tonight.

xoxo,
Glork

Unvote
Vote: Katsuki

hay buddeh.

[Glork]

No, Oversoul, you went from being stupid, but at-least-I-can-assume-that-if-you-are-protown-I-can-believe-what-you-say-and-do to being stupid, completely untrustworthy, and potentially scum for being a lying sack of shit.


You have literally lost all credibility with me. Possibly beyond the scope of this game. One of the very basic tenants of mafia is that protown players have to be able to

trust

one another. When you take it upon yourself to out other roles, make townspeople scramble, and fuck with people's heads all because you allegedly want to see if your read on Tierce was a good one -- instead of, I don't know, letting the game develop naturally? -- you abuse that trust. You're no longer worthy of it. If you're scum, you need to die. Immediately. If you're protown, you're effectively dead to me, because I don't fucking care what you say or think or do or claim anymore. Every post you write is completely worthless to me. Town faking things generally does more harm than good. In this case, it absolutely did.

If Oscar/Boyd were to find Rolf, and get some kind of masonry or a superprotownability or something,

TIERCE WOULD HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED DOWN THE LINE ANYWAY

. You accomplished

NOTHING

. Literally. NOTHING. But apparentely, TownOversoul has to have his head stuck so far up his fucking anus that he can't even use basic logic or reasoning to fucking UNDERSTAND this without having it spelled out to him like he's a fucking second grader.

On the other hand, if your suspicion of Tierce was accurate, wouldn't somebody say "Uh, I'm Oscar and I tried to target Tierce, and nothing fucking happened. She's a lying sack of shit."
Did this thought

EVER

cross your mind? No. It fucking didn't. Because, again, you've apparently decided that you'd rather be worthless and an active detriment than exercise even a shred of patience and teamwork.


If you are scum, I'm going to relish your death. If you're protown, seriously, fuck you. You're worse than worthless to this town. You've hurt us.

[Glork]

I dont have the energy.

Glork:

Can you do a quick runthrough on who freaked the ass out about you & Tierce "nameclaiming" and who hasn't missed a beat about the fact slappywags here flat out did so AND the fact that of all dumb gambits this one actually had relevance in the "Ike is probably a target" land?

Cause I dont remember seeing too much of that version of hate instead of the lazy kind

Honestly, right now all I can see is white hot rage, but yeah, I'll go back and look at this when I'm calmer.

[Glork]

I dont have the energy.

Glork:

Can you do a quick runthrough on who freaked the ass out about you & Tierce "nameclaiming" and who hasn't missed a beat about the fact slappywags here flat out did so AND the fact that of all dumb gambits this one actually had relevance in the "Ike is probably a target" land?

Cause I dont remember seeing too much of that version of hate instead of the lazy kind

No, Oversoul, you went from being stupid, but at-least-I-can-assume-that-if-you-are-protown-I-can-believe-what-you-say-and-do to being stupid, completely untrustworthy, and potentially scum for being a lying sack of shit.


You have literally lost all credibility with me. Possibly beyond the scope of this game. One of the very basic tenants of mafia is that protown players have to be able to

trust

one another. When you take it upon yourself to out other roles, make townspeople scramble, and fuck with people's heads all because you allegedly want to see if your read on Tierce was a good one -- instead of, I don't know, letting the game develop naturally? -- you abuse that trust. You're no longer worthy of it. If you're scum, you need to die. Immediately. If you're protown, you're effectively dead to me, because I don't fucking care what you say or think or do or claim anymore. Every post you write is completely worthless to me. Town faking things generally does more harm than good. In this case, it absolutely did.

If Oscar/Boyd were to find Rolf, and get some kind of masonry or a superprotownability or something,

TIERCE WOULD HAVE BEEN CONFIRMED DOWN THE LINE ANYWAY

. You accomplished

NOTHING

. Literally. NOTHING. But apparentely, TownOversoul has to have his head stuck so far up his fucking anus that he can't even use basic logic or reasoning to fucking UNDERSTAND this without having it spelled out to him like he's a fucking second grader.

On the other hand, if your suspicion of Tierce was accurate, wouldn't somebody say "Uh, I'm Oscar and I tried to target Tierce, and nothing fucking happened. She's a lying sack of shit."
Did this thought

EVER

cross your mind? No. It fucking didn't. Because, again, you've apparently decided that you'd rather be worthless and an active detriment than exercise even a shred of patience and teamwork.


If you are scum, I'm going to relish your death. If you're protown, seriously, fuck you. You're worse than worthless to this town. You've hurt us.

Add to this: Regardless of your alignment, you've also given the scums information that they should never have had. Maybe they'll assume that I'm one of Boyd/Oscar and I won't be on their list, and they'll leave me alone, but honestly? Outing roles because you can't be arsed to let your DAY ONE READ develop naturally is a complete joke.

Also, I just wanted to quote/repost this for emphasis.

[Glork]

glork can has masonry so i'll bitch out oversoul for 72h or however long night is? please?

I don't know what is going to happen if/when the three brothers get together. Sorry, Tierce. (Technically, I never actually claimed to be Boyd or Oscar. I posed a hypothetical to Oversoul to see how he felt about vigging obvtown Tierce. I'd like to keep my identity as ambiguous as possible to the scums. I could be neither for all they know.)

Just imagine us having bitchfest conversations. I'm pretty sure you can guess how that goes. :3

[Glork]

Chrome. It didn't look like the typical chrome box though. More of a windows thing. It said error virus infection and then wouldn't let me close the box so I closed the browser after posting the message.

For the record I am computer illiterate. But I guess you can just chalk that up to the things Glork said in his I hate you post.

Alchemist, I obviously know that things saying you have like a million infections are fake. I misclicked the picture and google doesn't immediately give the URL to the site and by the time everything loaded I had right clicked the picture and then the virus popped up.

Of all things to be preoccupied with?

You were too eager to jump on an IkeLynch.

[Glork]

Uh, that quote shouldn't be there. I was responding to Katsuki.

I'm still getting masive quoting errrors. I'm actually talking to Chamber right now to try to figure out why this is happening. Scrpiting issue, it seems.

[Glork]

Nah, he did. Oversoul is Ike and the scums need to shoot him tonight.


PEdit:

FoS: Hindu

. If you're protown, you should probably read the game's win conditions, and then Google Search "Daein" and/or "Micaiah." In fact, I'll cover the second part for you: http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Daein http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Micaiah
Scroll to Liberation of Daein in the first one. Should give you a p good idea of the scums' identities.

[Glork]

What did I miss? Oversoul was the one who fakeclaimed Ike by using Aether. How is he jumping on an Ikelynch? Did someone claim Ike while I blinked?

Nevermind.

Oh that's another one, Oversoul, you could have outed Ike. Screw you.

I agree with th Kats wagon

People I had a problem with? Glork as I already mentioned.

Hindu

Alchemist

Katsuki

They all jumped on and didn't even give me a chance to explain And it was all very opportunistic.

Oh, sure.

Mass OMGUS.

Good luck pushing that one through.

[Glork]

@Tierce/Glork:

Not to defend Oversoul, but I'll defend Oversoul: Oversoul's "y'all were happier when Tierce was dying" post reads an awful lot like, "When y'all thought Tierce was going to die, you were calling me obvtown, now that she's not dying you're calling for my head."

For what it's worth, before he announced it was a gambit, I was just assuming that the scums would kill him because he was Ike. There wasn't a need to call for his head then.

[Glork]

In fact, I was actively

avoiding

saying anything about "Ike" just in case the scums couldn't be arsed to look into what Aether is.

I think I made my rage at Over pretty apparent, though. Please don't try to paint this another color. Kill or not, and regardless of alignment, the play was abyssmal.

[Glork]

@Tammy

– why did my post not bear discussion until you finally mentioned it. Also … are you suggesting that we’re giving out ‘inside information’ by showing we have know the scum Wincon despite it being mentioned by the Mod. I’d like you to be clear on that.

I had an immediate reaction when I read it, and I went back to the front page and read through the rules again and the part about the Micaiah's win condition. I thought that maybe I was just being crazy and that it was clearer than I thought it was. However, it kept nagging at me, and when someone else talked about it and it didn't seem as clear to them, I thought maybe I wasn't crazy after all and wanted to know how you seem so certain.

Also, I'm not suggesting anything. I don't even know what you're asking me. I asked a very straight forward question. "Please explain why you seem so certain of the scum wincon." How do you interpret it as being anything other than me wondering how you seem certain of something that doesn't seem so certain to me?

I am, however, trying to figure out what you're attempting by asking if I was suggesting something by asking a straight forward question. You did a similar thing to Glork in Post 595 when you suggested that Glork's response looked like posturing ahead of time for when he was still alive. You look like you're trying to find little holes to exploit for future mislynches rather than seeking the truth.

This is complemented by the lack of any real effort or scumhunting so far this game.

Your first post, Post 239, the one I voted you for, was severely lacking in anything. Enough had gone on at that point that you should have had more than two questions about sheeping in RVS, a question about Spyrex and his statement about roles, and OS and SingerSigner's laments about those who hadn't posted at that point.

Similarly Post 534 lacked substance. Very minor commentary, but no interaction with anyone, and coming in at over 500 posts, there should be something by that point. You give three scumreads and at least you do a bit better than ToastyToast by not just addressing the top three wagon getters, but they feel a bit meh.

I know RegDup thinks Post 539 makes you look obvtown, but eh...it feels so mechanical. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong about giving Spyrex a town read because of the way he pushed on me for something silly but the fact that the crux of your proof of why he's scum for doing it is because he's done it before is meh. Has he as town similarly pushed someone as strongly for something silly at the start of the day? Then you focus on language and then game mechanics. It just feels meh...and lacks a sense of genuineness. And, if you truly think he's scum and you believe it as much as you profess to in that post, why aren't you trying to prove it to the rest of us? Sure you mention him again and note that he didn't respond to the scumminess of pushing on me or the comment on Singersigner in Post 825. But it still lacks a certain sense of conviction.

Several of your posts don't feel involved really in the action at all. Sure you've both commented on things that are going on and given opinions of some players' alignments but it's lacking a certain depth that makes me very suspicious of you.

A+++++ post.

Would STILL lynch MoI with no reservations whatsoever.

[Glork]

@Tammy

– why did my post not bear discussion until you finally mentioned it. Also … are you suggesting that we’re giving out ‘inside information’ by showing we have know the scum Wincon despite it being mentioned by the Mod. I’d like you to be clear on that.

I had an immediate reaction when I read it, and I went back to the front page and read through the rules again and the part about the Micaiah's win condition. I thought that maybe I was just being crazy and that it was clearer than I thought it was. However, it kept nagging at me, and when someone else talked about it and it didn't seem as clear to them, I thought maybe I wasn't crazy after all and wanted to know how you seem so certain.

Also, I'm not suggesting anything. I don't even know what you're asking me. I asked a very straight forward question. "Please explain why you seem so certain of the scum wincon." How do you interpret it as being anything other than me wondering how you seem certain of something that doesn't seem so certain to me?

I am, however, trying to figure out what you're attempting by asking if I was suggesting something by asking a straight forward question. You did a similar thing to Glork in Post 595 when you suggested that Glork's response looked like posturing ahead of time for when he was still alive. You look like you're trying to find little holes to exploit for future mislynches rather than seeking the truth.

This is complemented by the lack of any real effort or scumhunting so far this game.

Your first post, Post 239, the one I voted you for, was severely lacking in anything. Enough had gone on at that point that you should have had more than two questions about sheeping in RVS, a question about Spyrex and his statement about roles, and OS and SingerSigner's laments about those who hadn't posted at that point.

Similarly Post 534 lacked substance. Very minor commentary, but no interaction with anyone, and coming in at over 500 posts, there should be something by that point. You give three scumreads and at least you do a bit better than ToastyToast by not just addressing the top three wagon getters, but they feel a bit meh.

I know RegDup thinks Post 539 makes you look obvtown, but eh...it feels so mechanical. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong about giving Spyrex a town read because of the way he pushed on me for something silly but the fact that the crux of your proof of why he's scum for doing it is because he's done it before is meh. Has he as town similarly pushed someone as strongly for something silly at the start of the day? Then you focus on language and then game mechanics. It just feels meh...and lacks a sense of genuineness. And, if you truly think he's scum and you believe it as much as you profess to in that post, why aren't you trying to prove it to the rest of us? Sure you mention him again and note that he didn't respond to the scumminess of pushing on me or the comment on Singersigner in Post 825. But it still lacks a certain sense of conviction.

Several of your posts don't feel involved really in the action at all. Sure you've both commented on things that are going on and given opinions of some players' alignments but it's lacking a certain depth that makes me very suspicious of you.

Also, I still haven't outed anything about myself. I posed a simple hypothetical in Post 639, and then encouraged Oversoul to believe that he had vigged obvtiercetown, because I wanted his reaction. At no point have I claimed that I am either of Boyd/Oscar. I do not want that assumption being made.


And yes, I'm saying this at the probable cost of my "confirmed" status. It needs cleared up.

[Glork]

@Tammy

– why did my post not bear discussion until you finally mentioned it. Also … are you suggesting that we’re giving out ‘inside information’ by showing we have know the scum Wincon despite it being mentioned by the Mod. I’d like you to be clear on that.

I had an immediate reaction when I read it, and I went back to the front page and read through the rules again and the part about the Micaiah's win condition. I thought that maybe I was just being crazy and that it was clearer than I thought it was. However, it kept nagging at me, and when someone else talked about it and it didn't seem as clear to them, I thought maybe I wasn't crazy after all and wanted to know how you seem so certain.

Also, I'm not suggesting anything. I don't even know what you're asking me. I asked a very straight forward question. "Please explain why you seem so certain of the scum wincon." How do you interpret it as being anything other than me wondering how you seem certain of something that doesn't seem so certain to me?

I am, however, trying to figure out what you're attempting by asking if I was suggesting something by asking a straight forward question. You did a similar thing to Glork in Post 595 when you suggested that Glork's response looked like posturing ahead of time for when he was still alive. You look like you're trying to find little holes to exploit for future mislynches rather than seeking the truth.

This is complemented by the lack of any real effort or scumhunting so far this game.

Your first post, Post 239, the one I voted you for, was severely lacking in anything. Enough had gone on at that point that you should have had more than two questions about sheeping in RVS, a question about Spyrex and his statement about roles, and OS and SingerSigner's laments about those who hadn't posted at that point.

Similarly Post 534 lacked substance. Very minor commentary, but no interaction with anyone, and coming in at over 500 posts, there should be something by that point. You give three scumreads and at least you do a bit better than ToastyToast by not just addressing the top three wagon getters, but they feel a bit meh.

I know RegDup thinks Post 539 makes you look obvtown, but eh...it feels so mechanical. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong about giving Spyrex a town read because of the way he pushed on me for something silly but the fact that the crux of your proof of why he's scum for doing it is because he's done it before is meh. Has he as town similarly pushed someone as strongly for something silly at the start of the day? Then you focus on language and then game mechanics. It just feels meh...and lacks a sense of genuineness. And, if you truly think he's scum and you believe it as much as you profess to in that post, why aren't you trying to prove it to the rest of us? Sure you mention him again and note that he didn't respond to the scumminess of pushing on me or the comment on Singersigner in Post 825. But it still lacks a certain sense of conviction.

Several of your posts don't feel involved really in the action at all. Sure you've both commented on things that are going on and given opinions of some players' alignments but it's lacking a certain depth that makes me very suspicious of you.

Unvote

What Tierce said.

I'm actually debating whether I want to replace out of this game. Honest to goodness, thinking about continuing is making me sick to my stomach.

[Glork]

Fuck you, posting bug.

[Glork]

Tierce, I am getting zero enjoyment out of what is supposed to be a

game

that we

play

for

fun

.

None. Whatsoever. All I feel is sadness and disappointment and seething anger. I'm tired of not being able to read people's posts and believe that allegedly protown players behave in a manner which is in the best interests of the town as a whole. I'm tired of getting pissed off at people for making terrible plays and bad gambits and fakeclaims in literally every fucking game I'm in. Of the four games I've been in since I came back, three of them had players fakeclaiming (MLP, WINvitational, Blood Bowl). Town lost all three of those. One game did not (League). Town won that one.

And yet any time the word 'policy' comes up, people shit all over that concept and say stupid stuff like "You're not playing to your win condition if you policy lynch," when it's the awful players who put their own wants/interests above those of the town, because they think it's cool or effective or *something* when all it does is hurt the town's chances of winning.

Oversoul has hurt us. And in doing so, he's made me realize that I simply don't like whatever mafiascum has become. And it's not going away. So I want to go away. And I wish to god I could talk about how I feel to anyone outside of the thread, but I can't, because it's all derived from something that happened in this game, and that frustrates the living hell out of me.


I'm going to give myself at least 24 hours to think about it. I may wind up replacing out. I don't know yet. All I know is that the last ten pages, and my entire afternoon, has not been fun, and that completely defeats the purpose of being here playing these games.

[Glork]

I don't want OS to replace out, regardless of whether I stay or not.

Sorry to have been a distraction. /brood

[Glork]

So, uh. I've not really had any desire to read or post since Tuesday. But now I have, and so I'll respond to a couple of things.


I said "good luck pushing that through" to Oversoul, because there's literally virtually zero chance that the scums are all just piling onto him at once. Call it a dissonance theory if you will, but it's just very, very, very uncommon for scums to bloc vote like that.

I'd be down for an MoI lynch still. Something rubs me wrong about that slot, but I can't place my finger on it quite yet.

I'm willing to call Oversou very likely protown at this point. That doesn't mean I'll be depending on him to win the game, and I'd still like the scums to try to kill him on the chance that he's still Ike.

I want to hear actual content/analysis from Nuwen besides stating the obvious (Glorktown) and giving a few meh reads. I'd ask the same from the Fate side of the hydra, but I don't feel that will be quite so productive.

[Glork]

Singer, who should we bloc vote first?

[Glork]

Well I don't think Spyre's scum right now, although I reserve the right to change my mind on that later, if I so choose.

Toasty... I don't know. I hate his suspicions and "null" on like everything else, but once I kicked his ass a little, he actually started to do something.

Grey's got a wagon on him already. IDK if he's scum or not yet, but watching his ragefest at being wagoned like this could prove amusing.

MoI... that's an option. Sure, let's go with that.

Vote: MoI

[Glork]

SPYRE. RESARCHING GOLDEN NUGGET NOW.

[Glork]

Meh. Gamma's maybe the closest to something concrete, but even that's not enough for me to go "Scum fake flipout over Glork/Tierce-claim but passively okay with Oversoul being 'Ike'"...

Sorry, Spyre. Dead end, I think.

[Glork]

I think she's saying that LLD's timing and excuse for not bringing content to the table make her likely to be scum.


I'm debating whether I agree with that sentiment or not.

[Glork]

Disagree vehemently.

FoS: Grey

[Glork]

There is ONE scum faction. We've been over this already.

Jesus shit, guys. Stop being retarded.

There have already been discussions about game mechanics / win condition.

Pretty sure we have to find 5-6 scums before they find a list of... idk, 5-8 townies?

[Glork]

Go do your homework. I'm not going to hold your hand.

[Glork]

Better to be full of shit than just being shit.

[Glork]

But no, seriously. There have been discussions about the win conditions provided by the mod, and their associated flavor. There's not really any room for a second/hidden scumgroup here.


Plus, Vi does not have a history of multiballing it, which I wasn't even considering when I FoS'd Grey.

[Glork]

I have not. However, we're talking specifically about -- as Grey put it -- two teams of scumbags here, so the hypothetical existence of an SK isn't relevant to this discussion.

[Glork]

>say there is one scum faction and act like its 100% true verified fact
>get asked why, get asked for elaboration
>be evasive/hint at smoke and mirrors bullshit to make it seem like you know more than you actually do
>get called on it
>act superior because thats all you have
>There's not really any room for a second/hidden scumgroup here. BECAUSE WE HAS DISCUSSED IT ELREDY
>herp derp

Are you the 2012 version of masterchief? Twito?


Twito. Definitley Twito. MC didn't have enough of an attitude problem for you to be his reincarnate.

[Glork]

Disagree vehemently.

FoS: Grey

Uh, Glork, if there's one scum team, even if there's 6 scum in it, its 8 mislynches to LyLo (we seriously have 29 dear lord). More realistically, regardless of the outcome, 10+ days seems highly likely.

There's a reason two scum teams and a vig is standard for large games, and this being a Vi game I can't imagine it will be light on kills. You really think we're going to whittle down the scumteam for like a dozen days here?

Nah, there's gonna be multiple antitown factions. Look how many people are vaguely scumhunting but mostly keeping their head down. Some of them are scum who don't feel like getting cross killed.

Dude, look at the posted scum wincon.

They don't have to kill all of us.

We don't know how many days to LyLo it is, because we don't know who they have to kill.



...that damnable blue number. CANNOT UNSEE.

This, exactly. Hypothetically speaking, of the scum's list of targets was five players in size, they would only need five nights (even without ever lynching a target) to win. Obviously, I don't expect tem to hit targets ever single night, but it illustrates the point that despite this game's size, the explicit nature of the scums' win condition and the conclusions we can draw from said win condition do not make the existence of a second scumgroup likely.


I feel like GreyTown would have at least processed some of this material, which like unsaid has already been discussed multiple times. GreyScum would love to use "multiball" as an excuse to push cases he otherwise wouldn't.

Like his assertion that Katsuki doesn't want to get cross killed.

[Glork]

EBWOP: "which like I said." Phone speed typing for the loss.

[Glork]

You've still yet to see Fate SCUM.

Weather Mafia 2?

[Glork]

Scum be lurkin, yo.

This is probably true.


I posit that in any game above, like... 22-24 players, any vigilante is required to vig people who are in the bottom-quarter of posters. Hippos, Haze, Oman, implosion... all of them can eat a bullet.

[Glork]

Oh yeah. I was thinking he had been replaced.

Yeah, Nexus gets vigged, too.

[Glork]

Toasty's a bad lynch, guys. He's stepping up his game to a more-than-acceptable level.

[Glork]

heeeeey glork congrats you get to be a quadruple voter until I get around to reading over more isos

Unvote, Vote: MoI

That means I should probably try to substantiate my MoI inklings at some point. Someone remind me to do it tomorrow.

[Glork]

i personally liked the part of katsuki's iso where he showed suspicion of more than one player instead of attacking and revoting the same player multiple times to look like they're doing something with next to no effort to convince anyone to actually lynch them

yeah im kind of being an asshole here but grey seriously comments on who else you find scummy would be nice if solely to prevent hypothetical you-scum from going without comments on other players until you can make a better decision on whether to push on their lynch later or not

also i personally think you as scum would do what you're doing now and tunnel stupid hard on a scummy player and then try to keep doing that to the next scummy player and the next and then late game if one lived bring up how hard you've been pushing them all game they're obviously scum or if the ones you pushed on hard are dead attack other players for suddenly suspecting you and joining you on the wagons when if they "really thought you were scum" or some horseshit then they'd have went after you earlier

i'm rambling everywhere but deal with it

Don't forget the obligatory tunnel-bus thrown into the mix to keep the attack dogs off the scent.

[Glork]

So you're saying that you're willing to vote according to someone else's beliefs of who's scum and not your own?

...

I need a second opinion on this. Fate? SpyreX? Faraday?

Does ANYONE else think they might see what I see?

I mean, knocking someone for sheeping is the obvious thing here, but do you really think hypocrisy is a scum tell?

[Glork]

Yeah, not coding.

Excellent way for scum to manipulate kills to their advantage, especially in early game when their knowledge of potential character names is much more limited.

[Glork]

Unvote

Since I'm going to pretend to be a reasonable human being and put effort into this before demanding a claim from MoI.

I will state that calling your town reads pretty good, Magua, is a little stupid considering 3/5 are considered obv/conftown by everyone in the game (with any shred of common sense).

Dig deeper. Who else is town? Who would you associate with your named scumbags?

[Glork]

Hey LLD and Oman.

Stop cluttering up the game thread with shit. Grow up, both of you, and play

mafia

.



Oman, completely outside of LLD/Grey, who do you want dead, and why? Who is most likely to be scum?

LLD -- give me your first impression of the following players:
Nexus
implosion
Shmugen
MoI
Then glance through their ISOs and let me know what (if anything) changes.

[Glork]

That means I should probably try to substantiate my MoI inklings at some point. Someone remind me to do it tomorrow.

Hey look ... we are now 5 days later and this never happened.

Why is that Glork?

My enthusiasm for this game is approaching nil. Sorry.


FWIW, I'd almost rather just policy lynch a probable lurkerscum at this point.

[Glork]

By the way, I subscribe to the "every so often, the scums get a free daykill" theory to keep us moving along despite the lack of a true deadline.

Oversoul was:
A) Less likely than Tierce/me to be protected in some way;
B) More likely on the scums' list of targets due to Tierce's claim and my breadcrumbing


We need to find a lynch. We can't let this drag on.




GreyICE's reaction to the kill looks entirely faked. I once again have a fairly strong desire to lynch him.

[Glork]

Quil sounds as good as anyone else.

Vote: Quilford

[Glork]

Quil sounds as good as anyone else.

Vote: Quilford

If he's just as good as anyone else, why are you joining his wagon after only one person has voted him? Seems like if you just want to lynch anyone, you could do it a lot faster.

You want me to lynch you, don't you?

FoS: danakillsu

If Quil flips scum, somebody's vigging you toniiiiiiight. <3

MoI if town might actually prove to be not terrible for the town. And if he's scum, I'm p sure we'll know for certain later.

Toasty and ML are not the plays today. I already said that if I'm going to apathetic-lynch, it's going to be on potential lurkerscum, not people who are proving active and contributing.

A Quillynch is at least as good as any other lynch we could put through today.
But not any other lynch is as good as a Quil-lynch.

[Glork]

Uh. No?


Did you miss the part where Tierce was practically confirmed town by Oversoul's fake dayvig?

[Glork]

To be frank, I expect the lynch to be on town.
At this point, I don't really give a shit.

[Glork]

Put Toasty, Hindu, and Alchemist into the"Solidly Town" pool.


Reading stuff.

[Glork]

By the way, a lot of my good feelings about Spure have dissipated. I thought he was trying to breadcrumb being a Triangle Attack member with Tierce based on a lot of his comments around he soft claims and fake vig, but apparently that's not the case. I'll have to review his behavior without that assumption and reassess him later.

[Glork]

MaguaOfIllusion and Glork, can the both of you explain in some detail what you think of LLD for me, please.

I can't really decide if LLD is the kind of person who would hide behind "being pissed at people for ragging on her/Grey" as an excuse to scum-lurk.

I will say that I've been pretty underwhelmed by her play so far, but I do not really have a solid read in one way or another.

[Glork]

@Glork:

Lets try this a different way:

Am I crazy and if so why?

PEdit: Character(s), in my case. Equivalent to roles/players considering it's one each.

I'm tired so I just want to make sure I've got this right:

You & Glork are looking for:

Baazelbub, Terror of the Sands

NOT:

A Roleblocker and a Vig

Or, to put it a different way:

If I had a role that I was looking for someone I'd probably start out subtle but when that didn't work yell at the top of my lungs for my homey so we could get bashing.

I'm hoping, HOPING, that Tierce gets team hammer bros to find her directly as a function of her claiming today and, like I surmised, it is directly and actively useful for town so this mantra of hurbablabala nameclaims are bad when the claiming of names has a direct benefit can get stuck in your gullets and you choke on it.

Sigh

Hopefully the third visits Glork for SOME prizes.

SEE what coy does. Makes dumb happen

I'd be really, really surprised if there was no prizes for finding each other.

It seems like there's a pretty strong degree of "start off subtle" with you asking general questions about "so does your role work *this* way or *that* way?"
...and eventually "GOLLY GEE GOSH, I HOPE THE LAST TRINAGLE MEMBER AND GLORK GET TOGETHER" type of screaming at the top of your lungs.

[Glork]

Hmm. Maybe I can use some soft-claiming of nations to our advantage.



I'm considering asking exactly

one

preson from each of three different nations (I already have the three in mind, and at least one is a red herring) to volunteer that they are from said nation for the purposes of target-seeking.

Good Idea / Bad Idea?

[Glork]

There is more than 3.

Thats just the alliance

(and that post is spoilered for the confused looking for it in 3)

Yes, but I want to limit the amount of unnecessary claiming.

Basically, of the three nations I choose, at least one will be the nation of a target of mine, and at least one will be of a nation I really don't give a fuck about. The other one may go either way. But I don't want to ask like six or seven people to claim their nations. Three, maybe four, would suffice.

[Glork]

Oh, what the heck. Let's give this a shot.

I'd like one person from each of the following nations to come out and claim their nation name:

Begnion

Serenes

Goldoa

Just say, in big bold letters, "

I AM FROM <NATION X>

." If someone else from your nation has already come out of the closet, please don't. I really just want three peoples' nations so far.



PEdit: MoI, I don't think singer is scum. Didn't one of your heads also agree that singer is protown? Why are you wasting your time with this? Listen to your better half, please.

[Glork]

I'd like one person from each of the following nations to come out and claim their nation name:
Begnion
Serenes
Goldoa

So Glork - why did you choose two nations who already have 1 player deceased?

Do you honestly think I'm going to answer that question?

[Glork]

Vote: TSH

Willing to follow Hindu on this one. TSH has been pinging for me hardcore.

[Glork]

Do you honestly think I'm going to answer that question?

Well with this response I'll slot you with Tierce for the moment ...

I'm well aware of who was dead from which nations when I picked those three that I listed.

I'm not going to sit here and let you (or your scumbuddies) try to guess which nation I'm from, or which nation(s) I'm seeking people from.


Go fuck yourself. Seriously. Stop being fucking retarded if you're town.

[Glork]

Could someone explain to me how VCAs are useful at this early point in the game, and how they are not distracting and useless at this point in the game? I fail to see it.

The "scums' first interactions usually aren't block voting" thing is useful. Knowing Implosion is town, it's pretty unlikely that Hindu/Alchemist (who voted Dramonic with him relatively early on) are his scumbuddies.

[Glork]

Knowing implosion is scum. Whatever. I'm occupied.

[Glork]

Anybody wanna lynch Nexus?


Still not really understanding hte massive amount of Ludihate. Can someone please bullet-point the reasons he is scum?

[Glork]

I'm still waiting for glork to finish up.

I'm pretty sure hes starting to see it anywho.

Finish up what? Did I promise content again? I need to stop doing that...

[Glork]

I could lynch Dana.

[Glork]

It is possible that scum hopped on late, but I think unlikely. The lynch looked very inevitable once quilford claimed VT and the blood was in the water. And if anything, it looks like scum would want to prolong the day, considering this strange blue number we've got going on here. I do think hindu is town as well, and I think tammy is probably town at the moment too.

Do you think that prolonging the day was a remotely feasible strategy, given posts such as MoI's Post 1475 and my Post 1548?

Like, sure scum would WANT to prolong the day, but don't you think that actually TRYING to prolong the day would be a bit far-fetched at that point?

Because as scum, I sure would want to go with the flow and "end the day quickly" by mislynching a townie. Dead town is dead town.

[Glork]

Vote: Nexus

Whaaaaaatever.

[Glork]

I don't think I've ever played with DDDscum, but his posts seem consistent enough with what I've experienced from DDDtown.

I'm annoyed with Grey's incoherent ranting and wish he'd expand his horizons beyond yelling about Katsuscum. Who else is scum, Grey, and why?

Fence sitting on Kats. I think I just have a hard time reading him in general. I do think that MoI's point about not understanding town seeking mechanics makes him a bit more likely to be scum. However, I expect that not all (possibly not een *most*) of the town has seeking/target roles. I'm being a little more cautious in my evaluation here, because of personal feelings about he setup and mechanics.

[Glork]

Yeah, I'm not so much interested in a Katslynch anymore.


Tierce, if you get the time, could you update your D1 VCA with the Shmu-flip? There are ~things~ that need checked.

[Glork]

Well, a quick look at the VC list suggests:
Nexus still good a good lynch.
Toasty not scum.
TSH slightly less likely to be scum.
Singer more likely to be scum.

[Glork]

LLD, move your vote somewhere more useful? If UN continues to be this much of a distraction, we'll vig him.

[Glork]

Nexus. Shmu was first on Alchemist D1, Nexus was 5th. If that wagon was remotely scum-driven, it was Shmu+Nexus.

[Glork]

Singer
DDD
Oman
Nexus
Maybe ML?

I think that's our lynch pool for the day.


Sec, parsing.

[Glork]

BTW, since Spyre brought it up....

Oh, what the heck. Let's give this a shot.

I'd like one person from each of the following nations to come out and claim their nation name:

Begnion

Serenes

Goldoa

Just say, in big bold letters, "

I AM FROM <NATION X>

." If someone else from your nation has already come out of the closet, please don't. I really just want three peoples' nations so far.

STILL looking for three people to step up to the plate and say they are from one of these three nations.

I promise, only good things can happen.

[Glork]

No no no no. What you're doing is fine. I just still want responses. I'm a little annoyed at how many people either completely missed, or completely ignored my request.

[Glork]

I mean would it be likely as Oversoul claimed a fake day vig that a real day vig would kill him over it?

Has anyone ever seen a game with a day serial killer?

Yes.

LotR Mafia had something very similar... a serial-daykilling-survivor. He chose to shoot scums and win with the town.

I know I've seen day-SKs in the past, but I'm drawing a blank in terms of specific games.




I know that the daykillings are not a factional kill, UNLESS the scum sacrificed one of their own to throw us off the scent (seems unlikely right now). The Daein Resistance is the only scum

group

after us. I'm not really sure about what role a hypothetical SK would play in a 29p game.

[Glork]

Of note:
Implosion does not mention Singer at any point.
Singer's only mention of Implosion is a very specific not-joining-his-wagon, and a statement of "why not default to Toast" when she bails on the MoI wagon. IMO, there is a tangible element of "I really don't want Implosion lynched today" in her Post 1555.
Her next mention of Imp is just to state that he's protown, accompanied with a jump onto the Quilwagon.
Shmu's vote on Singer looks like pretty classic distancing. There's really no danger posed to Singer at any point while he is on her. His vote is the only one placed on her, and she never really gets any attention. It's fairly common for D1 scum to park their vote on a scumbuddy when they don't feel up to pushing a specific lynchwagon.


idk.
Singer might need to die.

[Glork]

This is why I should just put down the smartphone and walk away.

I had forgotten about the multiple nations breadcrumb. Singer is NOT an option, at least, not right now.

Because that would be ballsy as fuck for scum to try to pull.

Nap time for real.

[Glork]

Singer, just tell me if at least one of your nations is at least one of the three I listed. That should suffice for now.

[Glork]

Now I can't sleep.


Add UberNinja to the pool of lynch candidates.

[Glork]

Looking at UN's voting history (Oversoul, Tammy, Tierce, Oman, Toasty, Oman, MoI, Alchemist, Gamma, Oman)...

Oversoul - Town
Tammy - Probstown
Tierce - Town
Oman - Possible scum
Toasty - Town
MoI - Probstown
Alchemist - Town
Gamma - Null-to-town? IDFK.


....combined with his profound inability to understand that this is multiball based solely on the protown win condition...

...equals likely scum.



PEDIT: Wait. Someone thinks I'm scum? Bahahahahaha. Did you miss the part, Dana, during D1 where I was essentially confirmed town? Apparently so...

[Glork]

EBWOP: THAT THIS IS

NOT

MULTIBALL. FUCKING TYPOS.

[Glork]

I had sort of written off UN as a village idiot, but a jaunt through his ISO revealed some glaring, glaring holes in that theory.

I'm especially hung up on the notion that ANYBODY with the protown win condition could even consider for a SECOND that there is more than one scumgroup.



Fucking all we have to do.
Is kill the Daein Resistance.
And have one member of the "majority" survive.
That's it.
That is exactly what it says.

So why would UN-town ever post this?

[Glork]

So why would UN-town ever post this?

He probably forgot that part of the town wincon. I was also considering the possibility of an SK before you said something.

It's all fine and dandy that you admit to being in the "I'm as bad at GreyICE and UberNinja if we're all protown" pool (still haven't forgotten how Grey was convinced D1 that this was multiball, and that's still a big black mark against his alignment).

But explain UN's affinity for pushing protown lynchwagons?

Go ahead, Nik. I'm listening.

[Glork]

Okay, so dana and MoI are een more likely to be town.

Anyway, yes, if you start with my soft claim of searching for one or more people and work from there, it should become quite apparent that nothing I've said comes even remotely close to a scum mindset.



I'm really uncomfortable with Spyre's questions about the seekers... I just feel like the benefit he gains is not worth MoI giving scum the same information. I'm not saying I think Spyre is scummy for it (at least, not right now), but it makes me squirm a bit nonetheless.

[Glork]

Singer, just tell me if at least one of your nations is at least one of the three I listed. That should suffice for now.

It's not, and after rereading my role PM, I actually forgot/misread something. I technically only have one nation.

/facepalm

Well now I just don't know what to think.

Obviously I'm willing to wait the two days. In the meantime, cut the woe is me and sheep the confirmed towns onto Nexus?

[Glork]

Please don't hammer until I've gotten people to answer my request for nation members.

Nexus, you're at L-2 by my count. Full claim, please.

[Glork]

When I asked you to hop on Nexus, he wasn't at L-2.
Now he is, and I don't want to risk a quickhammer.
Use common sense regarding changing circumstances and stop acting like I'm being wishy-washy.

[Glork]

I have faith that if you had voted before UN/GreyICE/TSH, one of them would not have voted. And if all three of them did vote anyway, I would have unvoted to keep him at L-2. *shrug*

This debate seems to be going nowhere. Your self-vote still annoys the living daylights out of me. There is literally zero value in it.

[Glork]

If the "value" is REACTIONZ..... sigh. Literally the only noteworthy reactions have been a bunch of already-obvtown people going "seriously, singer, what the fuck?" I'm looking forward to your analysis, though.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Actually, the most telling "reactions" are probably the non-reactions. Nik and Grey not reacting to singer in any way, shape, or form.

[Glork]

Hindu, who on the Nexus wagon is most suspect right now, and why?

[Glork]

Also, I was fairly clearly serious about wanting to be lynched; I don't know why that's still a question at this point. My point wasn't to gain reactions, hence why I haven't moved my vote yet (or wait, should I haven't voted Nexus by now? WHAT DO GLORK WHAT DO), but since there were, I figured it was worth looking at. Although, the great and almighty Glork says it's clearly not worth it so I'll drop it right now as he pleases.

You win. Shutting up now.

[Glork]

Please don't hammer until I've gotten people to answer my request for nation members.

Nexus, you're at L-2 by my count. Full claim, please.

If it hasn't happened by now why do you think it will happen any time soon?

I'm fairly certain there are people who haven't seen the request yet.

[Glork]

Hmmmmm.


Ike as a doctor? Not sure that makes much sense. It makes even less sense that he would be a doctor who protects Crimeans specifically.


Nexus is probably fishing for a counterclaim so that his group knows who needs dead.


I'm debating whether I want to ask for a counterclaim anyway. Lynching Ike would be a terrible move. Outing Ike to lynch a third scum would seem to make sense.

[Glork]

In all fairness, the degree of ambiguity regarding Ragnell seems consistent with some of the ambiguity I've seen come from other people.

Right now, I'm thinking that barring a counterclaim, I want to put Nexus off until later.

We have two dead scums, and probably zero dead targets. Trading 1:1 here isn't a terrible idea, especially considering there are probably no more than 6 scums total.

[Glork]

That said, I do want Nexus to link to last examples where he lurked as a power role, and I want to know why he chose to protect MoI instead of the claimed Crimean (Tierce).

[Glork]

Ike as a doctor? Not sure that makes much sense. It makes even less sense that he would be a doctor who protects Crimeans specifically.

protect is vague. And I think it makes sense lorewise. Ike is a mercenary who gets hired to protect royalty and ends up being the head of its army.

Yes, he could be a bodyguard instead of a doctor... That would also beg the question of whether he's really a target.

[Glork]

Yeah, didn't we establish that based on implosion/Shmu interactions, Haze probably isn't scum? Or was I imagining that?

[Glork]

trololololol Tierce.


But seriously. Nexus has, like... 24 hours to:
A) Elaborate on the questions about his claim/behavior; and
B) Provide us with analysis of WHO ARE THE SCUMS


....or we just lynch his ass, no questions asked.

[Glork]

1. Nexus is town and Ike. What I think the case currently is.
2. Nexus is scum, but fakeclaimed ike for no apparent reason, will get counterclaimed, and die.
3. Nexus is scum with Ike fakeclaim, implying ike is not in the game. I highly doubt this.

re: 2,

Ike is the most obvious fakeclaim for scum. If Ike is on the scums' list, and Nexus claims Ike and gets counterclaimed, guess what? Scum have a guranteed target (and likely a power role at that) to kill the ensuing night.


Like... I'm not really sure what misfired in your brain when you said "for no apparent reason," but scum going down in flames will often fakeclaim doctor and/or something-else-they-want-to-kill.

Nexus has done BOTH.

Fuckin' seriously.

[Glork]

With Prana being uncountered, I refuse to lynch him. Simple as that. The town almost certainly has to have a Doctor role in a game with two scumgroups, and that has to be Prana.

HERE WE GO

YOU SEE WHY I'M A LITTLE FREAKED GLORK

START MAKING ME FEEL BETTER

Vi doesn't like regular doctors.

This game isn't multiball.




I'm really okay with the vig killing Grey at this point. He's now proven in three separate occasions that ebbs ZERO idea what the protown win condition is.

[Glork]

EBWOP: "that he has"... Phone being retarded.

[Glork]

Actually.

Unvote
Vote: GreyICE

This shit is happening. Three strikes and you're fucking lynchbait.

[Glork]

ITT, Grey confirms his continued inability to read Glork in any way, shape, or form.

[Glork]

By the way, Grey, if you're going to make-believe like you can meta my reactions to various claims, you might want to try

NOT

comparing apples to jagged rocks.

The context surronding Prana's situation in Square Enix: Mafia Gaiden, and Nexus' claim here almost literally could not be more different. Quite frankly, you should be embarassed to even be presenting such weaksauce to me. Come back when you feel like trying.

[Glork]

Glork: Where did you get that Vi doesn't like straight doctors?

General sentiment/experience... although it's a completely valid point that Nexus did

not

claim to be a regular doctor.

[Glork]

ITT, Grey confirms his continued inability to read Glork in any way, shape, or form.

Hey dude your vote is on me.

If you are jumping up and down and screaming that there can only be one group of scum
And you are saying I can't read you
And you are voting me because you think I am scum...

Que que?

ITT, strawman arguments!

[Glork]

We are secret lovers
Hope no one discovers
See you every day
Secret hideaway
Just around the way

Feels so good to me 'cause
No one's ever seen us
What we have, taboo
A secret rendez-vous

[Glork]

But seriously, I poke at Grey for two things -- his profound misunderstanding of what it means to be protown, and his pathetic attempt to paint my reaction to the Nexus claim as abnormal -- and he chooses to go after my "ITT, Grey can't read me" comment?

Straw man to the max. Grey needs rope.

[Glork]

[Glork]

Meh.... Looking at the rest of Grey's ISO, his behavior is actually p consistent with Greytown.

I just really, really, really, really, REALLY hate the multiball thing. And the comparison between here and the Pranaclaim.

But he did promse to make a mess, and I did choose to ignore him.

But fine, Grey.
A) Vastly different setups. We knew for certain at Prana's claim that it was multiball, but otherwise a p standard game. With TWO scum factions and a claimed doctor, odds were pretty astronomical that someone was going to shoot Prana. Even if he were scum, the other group *has* to kill him if the town refuses to.
B) Mechanics. We know that the scums' win condition is non-standard. We know that there is a unique "seeker" mechanic, where certain characters are trying to find certain other characters. We also know that the scums are looking for a specific subset of players and, as I already explained, if I were fakeclaiming scum expecting to be lynched, I'd fish for a counter from someone on

The List

.
C) Behavior. While "I lurked as a doctor to not draw attention" isn't a completely awful explanation, Nexus' behavior here is still pretty fantastically different from Prana's behavior. Upon claiming, Prana was an open book -- completely transparent, gave us immediate and full explanation of everything. Nexus' behavior, on the other hand, has been completely minimal. He just gave us a name, a vague/incomplete explanation of abiltiies, and a target. Tierce/Tammy/etc have tried to extract more information from him, but it's been like pulling teeth. This is not consistent with someone who can easily and immediately explain his role and the logic behind his behavior. It is consistent with scum who either don't know what to say, don't want to say it, or just hope that the claim will make everything go away (or draw out the desired counterclaim).


Like. Context makes the Prana situation and this situation completely, 100% different. There's no basis for comparison. If you were to go back over the past 7 years and look at my reactions to various doctor claims, they would be all over the place, beacuse every single one is situationally different. Your sample size is small, so fine, you saw something that seemed inconsistent, but your thought process is incomplete at best.

Unvote

I need to think. And starting tonight, I'm going to be on vacation until Tuesday, July 3. I'll have my laptop with me while I travel, but time/content may be hard to come by.