Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Tammy]

^^^Sorry...directed to Tierce

[Tierce]

You said that the way his reads evolve on conftown - I thought you were referring to yourself with the conftown. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Well...sure I hate being called scum when I'm not and don't deal well with too much suspicion. I'm getting better about it though. I don't necessarily take offense at people calling me scum...always. Especially not when the majority of a town has me as town. If one or two have me as scum on their reads list, it's not something I pay attention to, if they're aren't pushing for it. In fact, after getting killed early in several games and being up for getting killed early in several others, I prefer not to be on everyone's strong town list. A little suspicion can help to keep you alive; I like staying alive.

What I mostly take offense at is when people say I'm doing something I'm not doing. I've had people call me scum before and not taken offense when their suspicions seemed legitimate and genuine.

I never said you were voting him nor did I say you didn't have a right to have your questions answered. You didn't ask him a question though. You told him to see a remark about Glork and your role and to cut that special out of his list. It looks like you focusing too much on his thoughts about you, which is weird, considering that he's provided a bit more content that you could be able to question him about if you were trying to evaluate him.

"conftown-FMPOV" = "conftown from my point of view". I'm conftown to myself, but I don't expect to be so to anyone else at this stage. That is what I meant.

The 'question' was implied. Just because it doesn't have a question mark doesn't mean I'm not asking a question. I am wondering what ToastyToast thinks of me now that Glork's role may not be tied to mine, and why my reaction to Oversoul was scummy from his PoV:

UNVOTE: ToastyToast
Though I want to know what about my reaction to the fakevig you found so damning.

Toast, Glork's claim is not

necessarily

tied to mine. I don't think you're paying much attention to his later posts.

Toast--see my remark about Glork, his role, mine. Cut that !!special!! from that list and make up your mind.

Just because he has provided other content doesn't mean I should let a read on a false/outdated premise stand by, especially since he's rolling Glork and me together with that read.

[Nikanor]

afk GW2 weekend

[Alchemist]

AAAAND Alchemist keeps proving that he's town. Really people who make me laugh are town always. It is known. (Except for when they're not, but even when they're scum if they make me laugh they're town. )

Moon of my life...

[ToastyToast]

@Tierce: I will look at Glork's later posts like you asked. I know I missed something from his end. Tammy summed it up for me though--I am definitely having the bad feelings vs. logic issue. Its more like I originally had you down as scum, eventually thought you were the scummiest of my UN, Tierce, Tammy reads, and then thought the reaction was awful. However, the Rolf claim and Glork (not just his claim but also his view on you) keep suggesting to me that I'm wrong.

I disliked the fakevig reaction because 1)I thought it was unecessarily overaggressive 2) seemed like a poor sport, which I associate with upset scum over upset town 3)the whole obvtown thing spiked up here. In other games I have been in, a fakevig may piss town off, but not to the point of bullying or loss of all logic.

If I were to take out Glork's role in my read of you, then you'd still be scum for the reasons I gave before. However, this is b4 re-reading Glork, so I will get back to you.

Waiting for implosion's response to my last question

@Whoever asked about DDD being lazy: Again, 13 out of 29 people are lurking. There is no excuse and it needs to stop. The fact that we are letting people like DDD just get by is too much. Also, DDD's decision to sheep spy came very quickly, and seems a rash move to make. He also did not give his reasoning behind trusting spy. I also have never seen a sheep player who votes against their better judgement. Its always "well, *this player* seems pretty smart, and his case was good, so I'll sheep!" not "im lazy and don't give a fuck, so I'm going to select a random player and sheep them even if I think there's a better lynch."

[Glork]

Toasty's a bad lynch, guys. He's stepping up his game to a more-than-acceptable level.

[implosion]

Note that these aren't just directed at these people, other people should read them too, particularly the toasty wall (particularly the last part of it), I just don't want to take up too much of the page with walls.

Spoiler: Toasty

Firstly, i don't got a clue how you can get a town read from UN or Wyrd. If you could explain those, please do. May give me a better look into their slot. Secondly, it doesn't trouble you that you don't have opinions on half the wagon?

UN: I liked the comment at the end of 258. It feels like something I'd say as town in that situation. I also think his rvs vote is a slight towntell, in that I don't think scum would make an rvs vote that's so overtly 'scummy.' Like, if he was scum, I think he'd be more likely to read over 58, say "hm. This looks bad." and then be worried. But it isn't a scumtell since it was an rvs vote. It's also just a general feeling.

Wyrd: I like the analysis in 359, but when i said that read i think it was more based on 1135. In retrospect i'm not sure what i saw in it. But it still gives me good vibes.

Second, in UN's words:

Wagon analysis without a flip is useless.

Even if I had scumreads on, say, 4 people on your wagon, if I find you scummier than any of them, i'm still going to vote you. Especially if you have a wagon and they don't and i want this day to produce a fucking flip.

So you are okay with this? Why not mention it? I mean, you mentioned it as a reason for voting me (connection between Tierce, Tammy, UN). It looks like selective thinking.

Way to misrep. I

never

said "toasty is connection hunting, therefore toasty is scum." I said that you voted for one person when I think you, as town, would have voted for another. I made a comment about how it's bad at the beginning of 545.

then

I began my next paragraph with "Toasty is scummy," and put in reasons. Implying that I'm selectively thinking when I pretty damn clearly wasn't attacking you for just connection hunting is bad. Your response to me attacking your vote on UN, by the way, now that I see it buried near the bottom of a massive wall:

My UN vote is not completely dependent on Tammy because its scummy regardless of Tammy's allignment to vote them and then say you think they are town. Even if UN had unvoted Tammy when he changed his mind, it'd still be scummy. It would still be a sudden switch in perception without explanation.

Also, I think I already said this in response to OS, but I voted UN over Tammy because I wanted to further see how she played. In the end, I pretty much had 0 reasons not to vote for UN and a few reasons not to vote Tammy and Tierce.

He eventually explained the read when he was asked. Really, read the first half of this quote. It reads very strongly as toasty trying to retroactively justify his voting uberninja when I called him out on it. He calls it a sudden switch without explanation

when UN had already given an explanation at the time of Toasty's posting.

The second half of it just reads as made-up. He wanted to 'see how Tammy plays' because obviously it doesn't matter how un plays and voting tammy will make it so that she doesn't play anymore... it's so fucking contrived.

Spoiler: Duplicity

He finds that the push that it would be more natural to finish the reads than to get upset that you're being wagoned for something you've already explained is ridiculous.

I said it earlier:

this isn't the main reason that i voted toasty.

I voted him because of prior suspicion, and because the dramonic wagon stalled. That was really just something that I wanted to see toasty respond to. It was part of me revoting him, a very small part.

He also thinks that implosions entire play so far has been lackluster and doesn't think he'd play like this as town.

It's honestly a miracle that I've been able to keep up as much as i have. Have some meta. Early in that game, I was active because I had been in its prequel, and had a lot of strategic stuff to say. After that, I collapsed into a similar level of activity as I'm at now. Note more that early in this game, I was exhausted because of graduation. You'll have to take my word for it that my slot was town, though, since most of the game was lost in the crash. I joined this because awesome playerlist + vigame + i figured once summer started (which it has) I'd be able to keep up with it even though it's large. But don't expect the same level of interest, at least early game, as you'd see from me in a mini. I'm just not as able to get into it when there are 28 other people.

I'm very inclined to agree and think that Toast comes of far better in the whole implosion-Toast discussion with Implosions #1163 and #1666 being the worst offenders. They both look as if he's bickering with someone in a fashion that he's trying to convince them he's not scum while insisting that they are. It's something I see scum doing a lot more than town.

:shrug: I was responding to things that he said about me and attacking him in the same posts. Sue me.

[implosion]

Have i mentioned that we could really use a flip

[GreyICE]

21. GreyICE: Never know what flavor of GreyIce I’m going to get in a game. He seems to be like VOTE KATSUKI every fucking post. Guess what? Saying that is ineffective, and

I believe I already attacked others as to why it's a scummy thing to do.

I’d say he comes up on the lower end with his banter with katsuki.
...

11. Katsuki: Nothing I can say about this slot that hasn’t been said already. I have more problems with the other lurkers, but that doesn’t make his play right.

short version (for the long-post challenged

Scum (scummiest-->w): DDD, implosion, quilford, schmugen, GreyIce, LLD, (Tierce--special)
Middletown (nulliest-->leaning town) singer, MoI, UN, (Nexus, Oman, Nikanor, TSH--same grp), dramonic, Wyrd, Ludi,
Town(townies-->Sheepable) Hindu, SpyreX, Tammy, Duplicity, Alchemist, Glork, Haze, Oversoul, Zdeneck

Yeah, lemme explain something to you.

I replaced in because I got a PM saying 'Mafia Behind the Maiden could use a replacement and LLD is playing in it, come join!'

I offered to replace in Saturday, with the caveat that I was driving back from vacation all of Sunday, and had a job interview monday morning, so wouldn't be posting until monday afternoon.

I got the job and they needed me to start immediately. So yeah, I expected to have about 1 billion times more time than I've had. I'm moderating one game and in two games, and my time on this site the priority goes to the game I'm moderating. I read this game when I can - and the endless walls don't help (I'm even farther behind on the other game, if it's any consolation). So fuck you if you think I'm lurking. I worked friggin six hours on my Saturday, and what do I do when I get home? Read this game.


Now, Toasty, you're going to reconcile the above for me. In order:

1) Attacking Katsuki is scummy
2) Katsuki's play is terrible awful
3) You failed to stick Katsuki anywhere in the town scum list.

So where does Kats go? If attacking him is awful, I'd expect strong town, so why is he there? If he's somewhere else, why is attacking him awful?

[GreyICE]

Toasty's a bad lynch, guys. He's stepping up his game to a more-than-acceptable level.

A few pages ago, Glork wrote:

Grey: Read 430, 436, 437, 448, and then vote Toasty.

A little while ago, Glork wrote:

Toasty... I don't know. I hate his suspicions and "null" on like everything else, but once I kicked his ass a little, he actually started to do something.

Soooo... basically you were trying to get me to vote a pressure vote because having the top 3 wagons as scum reads is shitty?

Because dude, he still has Tierce as a scum read, and you're not telling me that someone reading this game should have Tierce as a scum read.

[GreyICE]

Ludi is town

Fate is probs town, though I'd feel better if that dick Nuwen was posting

Scum be lurkin, yo.

This is probably true.


I posit that in any game above, like... 22-24 players, any vigilante is required to vig people who are in the bottom-quarter of posters. Hippos, Haze, Oman, implosion... all of them can eat a bullet.

The cutoff is at DDD for a reason, I assume.

I disliked the fakevig reaction because 1)I thought it was unecessarily overaggressive 2) seemed like a poor sport, which I associate with upset scum over upset town 3)the whole obvtown thing spiked up here. In other games I have been in, a fakevig may piss town off, but not to the point of bullying or loss of all logic.

This reasoning is total horseshit, but at least there's some reason Tierce is still scummy.

...

Apparently town doesn't get pissed and rage.

...

[GreyICE]

Okay, after reading the last few pages, I've come to an important decision. My vote has a target it really needs to be on.

Vote: Katsuki

I SWEAR UNTO GOD WHY IS HE TOWN

SOMEONE BETTER GIVE ME REASONS

[Katsuki]

Role PM etc.

[Tierce]

I disliked the fakevig reaction because 1)I thought it was unecessarily overaggressive 2) seemed like a poor sport, which I associate with upset scum over upset town 3)the whole obvtown thing spiked up here. In other games I have been in, a fakevig may piss town off, but not to the point of bullying or loss of all logic.

I kind of want to point you to Vi's Team Mafia game, in which I was part of a role:

Unleash Tierce

- Target player will be manipulated into targeting the player of your choice; or, if you know the name of one of your target's abilities, you can make them use THAT on the target of your choice. This ability will fail entirely if your target does not have the Faith to Cast the ability you want them to use.

/plug

I mean, Vi has told me this is more due to wanting to give me a consolation prize for not being in Team Mafia than for anything related to me in particular, but it's still pretty accurate. I'll bully and hound and rage and get my scumreads lynched when I really believe them, so I don't really know why you expect me to be mellow when I believed I was playing a frigging obvtown game and someone had shot me D1. Being obvtown tends to be one of my main strengths as town.


Anyway--thanks for answering. Pretty much settles you as town.

Soooo I have to reread that wagon for opportunistic scum yay funtimes.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The fact that we are letting people like DDD just get by is too much. Also, DDD's decision to sheep spy came very quickly,

and seems a rash move to make

. He also did not give his reasoning behind trusting spy. I also have never seen a sheep player who votes against their better judgement. Its always "well, *this player* seems pretty smart, and his case was good, so I'll sheep!" not "im lazy and don't give a fuck, so I'm going to select a random player and sheep them even if I think there's a better lynch."

And why is that? You also seem to assume just because I don't give reasons why I think SpyreX is town means I don't have reasons why I think SpyreX is town.

The cutoff is at DDD for a reason, I assume.

Yeah, I'm not lurking; I'm just being tedious.

[GreyICE]

Role PM etc.

...

YOUR QUICKTOPIC IS NOTHING BUT RANDOM BULLSHIT AND CUPCAKE JOKES AGAIN, ISN'T IT?

I CAN READ YOU KATSUKI

[Nexus]

unvote

Obviously noone else fancies an Alchemist lynch.

Katsuki, stop trying to fake lack of care by giving stupid "hilarious" answers to GI's question.

[Alchemist]

Nexus are you even reading the thread

I dont think you have

:scumvibes:

[Magister Ludi]

Nexus, I think a good place for your vote could be on Teleporting Hippos.

[Alchemist]

Or the guy who just posted above me

Because he's scum n' all

[Katsuki]

Role PM etc.

...

YOUR QUICKTOPIC IS NOTHING BUT RANDOM BULLSHIT AND CUPCAKE JOKES AGAIN, ISN'T IT?

I CAN READ YOU KATSUKI

Since when did I ever make cupcake jokes in QTs? = =
I wish I had one though.

[Oversoul]

Hi, everyone

I'll make a post tonight.

It won't be a wall.

It will have a vote and comments on some other people's actions.

[Katsuki]

Katsuki, stop trying to fake lack of care by giving stupid "hilarious" answers to GI's question.

This is a curious statement.

What makes you think I'd care (or that I'm faking)? Then, even if hypothetically I was (impossible but meh), what would it say about my alignment?

[Gammagooey]

heeeeey glork congrats you get to be a quadruple voter until I get around to reading over more isos

Unvote, Vote: MoI

[Tammy]

Nooooo Gamma...you were the spokesperson for the Transitive Triumvirate. It sounds much cooler than the Transitive Quattuorvirate.

Although making Glork spokesperson of that group is good, and I like your vote so I'll let the less cool sounding group name slide.