Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Tammy]

Also metahunterhydraextraordinaire/aka MoI - I'd like to also point out that your whole meta argument on me, as incomplete and silly as it is, is just another example of your mechanical and superficial "scumhunting" this game. "Oh, she doesn't feel the same as in this game and this game in which she was town and I read her correctly and incorrectly blerg". Do you even realize how much BS you're spewing? It doesn't cost you anything whatsoever to scumhunt that way. You get to look at the surface, be shallow, and not really delve into anything because when someone flips town, you get to go "welp, didn't feel the same." *shrug...herpderp*

All of your reads are like this. You're like sitting at the edge of the pool dipping your toes in the shallow end. That's not going to cut it and you know it.

[Duplicity]

Nothing changed about her posts. This head believes bad play tends to be town. Other head doesn't (lolhydradissonance).

I know that you treat bad-play as a town-tell, that's not what I'm getting at. What I'm getting at is that MoI said " I don't know where Magua stands other than that he doesn't read them as town" then you say you read them as town. So did you never discuss Singer at the time that MoI made that post?

Meta is the only reliable scumhunting tool.

Absolutely false. And a meta sample size of two is not near enough to get an adequate read on someone, especially if you do happen to be town and you think you're even close to being informed enough to read me as not town right now. I don't care what things you think you can read from my play style, as I know how incomplete your knowledge actually is. And considering the fact that I've been town in the past games we've played together, and am in fact town right now, there's nothing to tell me.

Couldn't care less about proving my point by referencing scum games. I've actually only played scum twice, so I don't even really have scum meta out there. I'm just telling you don't have enough information on me to read me adequately, and if you think you do then...

Ok, whether it's false or not is irrelevant (For the record it's not false, meta is what leads to or is the basis of nearly all reads) this is an argument that Magua has stood by game in and game out regardless of his alignment which means that he's going to use whatever meta he has however small it is to try and read you based on, sure it's incomplete information but him attempting to do so is not a scum-tell, not even close to it. Also being cheeky is Maguas M-O though he's very bad at it.

[Tierce]

Tammy, please link me to your other games.

[Tierce]

@Tierce:

You're the reason I can't have

nice things

fun.

Oh, almost forgot to sign my post.

-Tierce

FWIW, you being a charismatic bastard makes having you around way too much fun and I am having trouble with this scumread just because I like you. (Ohnoes, Toast! What will we do, I like a player's style!)
Please to be telling MoI to come back and resume the Attitude. It's much easier to have SPITE that way.

Wheeee awake for 24h getting on a plane back later toodles.

-Magua


PS--Toast, Glork's claim is not

necessarily

tied to mine. I don't think you're paying much attention to his later posts.
Oversoul is totally Ike and needs to be targeted by scum, though.

[Katsuki]

I endorse this MOI wagon wholeheartedly.

[Tammy]

But you're not voting.

[Tammy]

Meta is the only reliable scumhunting tool.

Absolutely false. And a meta sample size of two is not near enough to get an adequate read on someone, especially if you do happen to be town and you think you're even close to being informed enough to read me as not town right now. I don't care what things you think you can read from my play style, as I know how incomplete your knowledge actually is. And considering the fact that I've been town in the past games we've played together, and am in fact town right now, there's nothing to tell me.

Couldn't care less about proving my point by referencing scum games. I've actually only played scum twice, so I don't even really have scum meta out there. I'm just telling you don't have enough information on me to read me adequately, and if you think you do then...

Ok, whether it's false or not is irrelevant (For the record it's not false, meta is what leads to or is the basis of nearly all reads) this is an argument that Magua has stood by game in and game out regardless of his alignment which means that he's going to use whatever meta he has however small it is to try and read you based on, sure it's incomplete information but him attempting to do so is not a scum-tell, not even close to it. Also being cheeky is Maguas M-O though he's very bad at it.

I undertand that meta has it's values, I didn't say it doesn't. For instance, part of where I get a read on you or anyone I've played with is based on meta for general behaviors, but I don't think it's the end all be all for reads on people. It's part of where I have a read on the hydra...though it started there, it didn't end there. Didn't say it was a scum-tell that he was trying to read me based on meta Reg...I was pointing out that he doesn't have enough information to adequately do it and he's being all cocksure about his ability to read me when he doesn't even know the basics of reading me. (Hell not too long ago, people who

do

actually know how to read me and can consistently read me as obvinnocent within my first 10-15 posts remained paranoid about me for days simply because I was in a different mood and shifted my posting style for a bit. So, two games is definitely not enough to be certain about reading me, especially when I have regular shifts in temperament. *notcrazyswear*)

And, his read, if he is town, is stopping there with his incomplete information without assessing anything in game. Shallow scum hunting is a scum-tell insofar as I believe in scum-tells. And I view this, along with the rest of his scumhunting, as shallow.

FWIW, you being a charismatic bastard makes having you around way too much fun and I am having trouble with this scumread just because I like you.
Please to be telling MoI to come back and resume the Attitude.

Quoted for truth. Having a problem with it myself. I cut off the end part, cuz I don't feel spite, no matter how annoyed I get and tell people off.

[Tammy]

Tammy, please link me to your other games.

I only have two completed games here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21408 and http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21344

[Katsuki]

But you're not voting.

Because GI is also scum.

I don't particularly care which gets lynched today and would support both wagons.

[GreyICE]

Disagree vehemently.

FoS: Grey

Uh, Glork, if there's one scum team, even if there's 6 scum in it, its 8 mislynches to LyLo (we seriously have 29 dear lord). More realistically, regardless of the outcome, 10+ days seems highly likely.

There's a reason two scum teams and a vig is standard for large games, and this being a Vi game I can't imagine it will be light on kills. You really think we're going to whittle down the scumteam for like a dozen days here?

Nah, there's gonna be multiple antitown factions. Look how many people are vaguely scumhunting but mostly keeping their head down. Some of them are scum who don't feel like getting cross killed.

Like katsuki.

Who you SHOULD be voting.

[Tammy]

RegDup

I meant to ask you this last night when you posted your reads list. Will you read Post 844, re-read MoI's ISO, and then tell me how you have a strong town read on them? kthnxbai!

Sure. I don't find the 'looking for holes to exploit future mslynches' point is anywhere near as strong as you're treating it. If he was after creating future mslynches he wouldn't be chipping away towards Glork when there's a large amount of weaker and more suspected players in the playerlist. Similarly I find his push towards SpyreX/Tierce combination to be a town-tell because I know Magua likes taking easy lynches out as scum whereas as town he's not opposed to pushing stronger players if he has a legitimate reason to FoS them.

But he's not doing anything about the Spyrex read. It's more like "here's this big post that talks about stuff but I'm not gonna really push it but I'd be willing to vote it". Like seriously, I'd take them more seriously if they were trying to push it, but it's all a big pile of meh.

And what about that push on Spyrex, part of it is his push on me as being easy, which would be understandable if they had a town read on me. But they don't. So, if they don't have a town read on me, what's the big deal with Spyrex thinking I'm scum and pushing on me? If I'm not acting like my town self *whatever* shouldn't they be cheering Spyrex on for recognizing it immediately? They're not...they're attacking him for it.

[Vi]

Mini Vote Count (8):

Ranulf
GreyICE (L-10) ~ Oman, Nikanor, Gammagooey, Katsuki, Zdenek
ToastyToast (L-10) ~ Haze, UberNinja, SpyreX, Debonair Danny DiPietro,

Tierce,

Quilford
MaguaofIllusion (L-11) ~ Tammy, Glork, singersigner, Tierce
Magister Ludi (L-12) ~ Wyrd, Duplicity, MaguaofIllusion
dramonic (L-12) ~ Hinduragi, implosion, Alchemist
UberNinja (L-13) ~ Lady Lambdadelta, Teleporting Speed Hippos
Alchemist (L-14) ~ Nexus
Katsuki (L-14) ~ GreyICE
Oversoul (L-14) ~ dramonic
Teleporting Speed Hippos (L-14) ~ Magister Ludi
singersigner (L-14) ~ Shmugen
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-14) ~ ToastyToast

Tierce (L-15) ~

ToastyToast

Not Voting:

Quilford, Glork,

Oversoul,

singersigner

--With 29 alive, it takes 15 to lynch.

8

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

vote toastytoast

Hurr.

Word, his latest post is terrible; only nine reads and four of them are null? Wyrd is a null read due to lurking but I'm a scum read due to the same, goofier than a pet coon. If I wasn't already voting for him and hadn't pledged my vote to SpyreX I would totally move my vote to Toasty now.

[Tierce]

Tammy, please link me to your other games.

I only have two completed games here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21408 and http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21344

Not what I'm looking for, ma'am. Feel like linking your Westeros games? I know they are alt'd, but inquiring minds.

[Tierce]

Disagree vehemently.

FoS: Grey

Uh, Glork, if there's one scum team, even if there's 6 scum in it, its 8 mislynches to LyLo (we seriously have 29 dear lord). More realistically, regardless of the outcome, 10+ days seems highly likely.

There's a reason two scum teams and a vig is standard for large games, and this being a Vi game I can't imagine it will be light on kills. You really think we're going to whittle down the scumteam for like a dozen days here?

Nah, there's gonna be multiple antitown factions. Look how many people are vaguely scumhunting but mostly keeping their head down. Some of them are scum who don't feel like getting cross killed.

Dude, look at the posted scum wincon.

They don't have to kill all of us.

We don't know how many days to LyLo it is, because we don't know who they have to kill.



...that damnable blue number. CANNOT UNSEE.

[Shmugen]

10 minute work break quick reaction:

Shmugen, all Dayvigs are fake. Always. Seriously, always.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that newer posters replacing into a scum slot are try-hard in their attempts to look town, and tend to make long wall posts, but end up having a low content to word ratio (aka a lot of null reads).

Do you think your summaries of TSH, Haze, Katsuki, Ludi, Nexus, Nikanor, or Oman added anything to this game?

If not, why did you post them?

And I wanna vote Shmug for that post. More often than not when someone feels the need to comment on every single player in a large game on day one, they are scum trying too hard.

Meet Shmu.

Did exactly the same as town in MLP.


Not really caught up, super skimming, will be back in Lisbon today.

I think the theory is crap, Grey. I play this game to have fun, lurking is not fun. I have fun by interacting with people, and there's no better way to inject myself into the mix than to talk about everyone.

My reads on that list didn't add a lot to the game, no. They are to spike conversation and are otherwise for my benefit. I attempt to keep a game's events fresh in my mind as they happen, this is difficult when replacing in or when I fall behind. A list helps me get my head on straight and serves as a reference point, a backup if you will, should I fall behind in the future.

Response to Alchemist coming in the afternoon.

[Glork]

Disagree vehemently.

FoS: Grey

Uh, Glork, if there's one scum team, even if there's 6 scum in it, its 8 mislynches to LyLo (we seriously have 29 dear lord). More realistically, regardless of the outcome, 10+ days seems highly likely.

There's a reason two scum teams and a vig is standard for large games, and this being a Vi game I can't imagine it will be light on kills. You really think we're going to whittle down the scumteam for like a dozen days here?

Nah, there's gonna be multiple antitown factions. Look how many people are vaguely scumhunting but mostly keeping their head down. Some of them are scum who don't feel like getting cross killed.

Dude, look at the posted scum wincon.

They don't have to kill all of us.

We don't know how many days to LyLo it is, because we don't know who they have to kill.



...that damnable blue number. CANNOT UNSEE.

This, exactly. Hypothetically speaking, of the scum's list of targets was five players in size, they would only need five nights (even without ever lynching a target) to win. Obviously, I don't expect tem to hit targets ever single night, but it illustrates the point that despite this game's size, the explicit nature of the scums' win condition and the conclusions we can draw from said win condition do not make the existence of a second scumgroup likely.


I feel like GreyTown would have at least processed some of this material, which like unsaid has already been discussed multiple times. GreyScum would love to use "multiball" as an excuse to push cases he otherwise wouldn't.

Like his assertion that Katsuki doesn't want to get cross killed.

[Glork]

EBWOP: "which like I said." Phone speed typing for the loss.

[Wyrd]

Just stopping in to say GreyICE is definitely town this game.

I'll be re-reading Toast with Nuwen later to see if we can hop on that.

[Alchemist]

inb4 p80 d1 lynch

[Wyrd]

Btw--I should note that iirc, Vi doesn't really believe in scum vigs--her reaction to the (fake) vig claim and the subsequent rolecopier claim in MLP made it pretty sure that, for Vi, vigs are a protown staple.

So if I die, Oversoul is very, very likely town. Dumb as all hell and would throttle him for fun and giggles, but town.

/outguessing the mod
/more rage
/:HAPPY:


PEdit: MoI, frankly, I'm not in the mood. We'll discuss your bloody expectations of people if I survive this, but for pity's sake, for now assume I'm going to die and you're talking with conftown. K? K.

It wasn't a discussion. It was more a "goddammit ARGH I HATE EVERYTHING this is how I think I'll act in the future", there wasn't much of a return from him. "Soundboard" was probably the wrong word.

Hypo-Fatescum could very easily dismiss the conversation. He had absolutely no need to go back to it. And yet he did. Yes, he could be trying too hard--but it's D1. If he's showing protown rationale and it looks genuine, I'm not going to be paranoid going "omg he's faking it". Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Fate doesn't elaborate on crap when he's scum.

We who are about to die say: bite me. I'm being as logical as I can. (Hint: Nuwen killed me in MMMM:HR because she thought I wouldn't hesitate to go kamikaze on her if I thought she was scum.) I've pursued Fatescum. I'm not afraid of hunting down scumreads no matter who they are. Go read Brass & Shrapnel and stop acting like I am some kind of adulating cowardly chicken.

You think I wouldn't try to use our earlier conversation to establish a sort of trust in you that you feel now?

Heh

Oh Tierce.

You've still yet to see Fate SCUM.

[Gammagooey]

Just stopping in to say GreyICE is definitely town this game.

whaaaaaat

if you're gonna say grey's town give some details on it at least

[Wyrd]

Oh wait you have

oh wait you were completely fooled until Benmage faked a guilty.

That's right.

You don't catch Fate scum so stop acting like you CAN based on silly lil set-up games that were meaningless.

[Alchemist]

Can you stop talking about yourself for two seconds and give paragraph-long reads on these people (this also goes for anyone who wants to do a good deed)

DDDP
Quilford

[Wyrd]

I swear unto god
If this turns into the wild and wacky UberNinja and Glork show
I'm throwing bricks

UN, Glork already unvoted and I believe his frustration to be sincere. It seems to be going a bit far as scum if he's faking it, and this isn't even mentioning the claims. Glork is pretty obvtown. Melodramatic or not, he's obviously not having fun right now and you can't berate him for wanting to think it over.

And good, now that Oversoul isn't getting wagoned put some votes on the people that need them-Ludi/Implosion are the ones that immediately come to mind.

-Shift

I dunno, I don't have a strong scum read on Ludi. His last infinity posts have been in this thread, and I get the feeling he's overwhelmed and sticking to his 2 targets (Alchemist and Tammy) and trying to get good reads on them.

Implosion is a good lurker wagon, but hey, you know who else hasn't posted much? Katsuki! And Katsuki is scum!

Join justice

Implosion is a good lurker wagon, but hey, you know who else hasn't posted much? Katsuki! And Katsuki is scum!
Join justice

I would include you right up in the "I haven't posted much" group. And you complain that I'm not providing content. sheesh.

You've provided lots of words. You're light on content.

Words are not content, content is not words, and your posts have been a lot of vague justifications, cheerleading, and general 'running commentary,' with no real concrete reasoning or thought process.



Oversoul, listen to Uber.

Hey Tammy.

Crazy ass Vi game

24 motherfuckers to mow through

Unlikely to be one scum team

Discuss.

Not wanting 2 huge distractions to take center stage and stop scumhunting +Town
Consistency of wanting Katsuki dead WHILE also having reads on another myriad of players (instead of tunneling and refusing to comment on anything else) +Town
First one to proclaim multi-scum in a large theme +Auto-Town
Fate always being able read GreyICE without fail +Obvtown