War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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When I read the previous versions, the first thing I noticed was the "fake votecounts" (eventhough this game only had HURT and HEAL actions).Hoopla wrote:Good luck everyone!
So, I'm not super familiar with what the most sensible play is when it comes to hurting and healing, but from what I've read of the previous versions of these games, it's possible scum accrue extra damage/powers over time. I think it's in our interest to play this game in a relatively quick fashion.
Hurt: DrippingGoofballHi!
I didn't even notice the Rage points until the others have pointed it out.
I am quite surprised you noticed the Rage points WITHOUT noticing the fake vote counts (and how it could possibly help counteract RAGE points/random hurting). Makes me think you really didn't read the game and just have the knowledge of RAGE points.
FOS: HooplaYes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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QFT. I just hope that disagreeing on discussion strategy isn't immediately taken as something "scummy". I honestly would initially agree with Kinetic's ideas, and probably would have suggested something similar, before anyone voiced some points on it stalling the game (which I find also correct). I won't fault Kinetic just because he suggested something like that. Thinking about his intentions on suggesting a less-than-optimal strategy is WIFOM for me.Hoopla wrote: ABR: Thanks for your summary - you put together a case weightier than expected, but I think you're exaggerating what to me looks merely like a strategy disagreement.
Reading more.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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More Notes/Comments from me
KINETIC CASE BY RAMPAGE: I agree with the downplaying part. I will note that for future cases.
ROFLCOPTER: For the record I played with Rofl before too.
This is so creepy. The last time I saw people do this, it allowed scum in the council (even when they were in the minority) to manipulate the vote. Also, why should we trust your choices? I feel just placing one scum in that council of four can really sway things.roflcopter wrote: speaking of organize, i'm organizing a brute squad, and inducting the following obviously town people into it immediately: abr, xyl, dgb, and tajo (if he'll accept). we should all agree on one person and put them down. over and over, until we've killed all the scum.
Also, this prevents us to see true accountability on Hurt and Heal actions. If we let Hurt and Heal actions to be as natural as possible then we will be able to dig through better intentions of each ad every person.
On another note, I totally agree with the fake voting system because it lets us express our disagreements and scum hunting without putting innocent people in jeopardy.
This was said after some people told him not to post definitive statements without explanation.roflcopter wrote:right, hoopla dies right after kinetic
i love how i always make the scum squirm right away
Er... is rolfcopter drunk...?
For me, "gut feels" come froms some hint of scumminess. Sure even with weak suspicions.populartajo wrote: Acyually, whats wrong with making definitve statements? We know that town has no additional info. There are some actions that tell you that someone is more prob town or more prob scum. Or gut. I usually play like that.
I want to know if Rolfcopter:
1. Has reasons
2. If his reasons are strong are weak.
3. If he admits his reasons are strong or weak
I don't care whether somebody calls somebody out, but I always look for a reason.
Vote: Hoopla/Roflcopter(Hoopla for my initial suspicions. I'll use this system as a bookmark)
It's a fake vote right? :pYes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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I hope you don't find him suspicious because of something very semantic (which I think you're driving at.)Shinnen_no_Me wrote:
Not necessarily, you know? In F11 games, mafia is a 22% of the total population. In other games, mafia can go as low as 20% or as high as 30%. But you just said a solid number, not even a "I'm guessing" or "about 75%". That's what I found suspicious.vIQleS wrote:
115Kinetic wrote:
Good catch.FoS: ViQ. I renew Shinnen's question, how are you so sure about the distribution?
If he added the phrase "I'm guessing" or "about 75%" would it change your view of him?
Finding arguments because of a play on words is bad town play.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Correct. But I feel that the voting system is a good balance of being "natural" and getting intentions without putting people in bad shape.vIQleS wrote:
You can't agree with both of these - the vote system is specifically designed to make the hurting less haphazard and therefore less 'natural'Tenchi wrote: Also, this prevents us to see true accountability on Hurt and Heal actions. If we let Hurt and Heal actions to be as natural as possible then we will be able to dig through better intentions of each ad every person.
On another note, I totally agree with the fake voting system because it lets us express our disagreements and scum hunting without putting innocent people in jeopardy.
Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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When is this NOT a good scum strategy? I feel that all games would benefit scum if they were aggressive in "scum hunting".Kinetic wrote:The more I think about it, the more I feel the best scum strategy is a highly aggressive one. Especially if they can make it look townie to be aggressive.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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I wouldn't wait that long. I'd rather have a deadline, and see who has the most votes by then. Getting a majority with 10 people usually ends up with a lynch that "everyone agrees with". And you know what happens when "everyone agrees"...populartajo wrote:Fixed Votecount.
10 to massive hurting
...Townies get lynched.
Let's agree on a deadline. Better if somebody does the math.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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I cant really post anything useful right now. Browsing the thread there has been a lot of people campaigning against other people and I can't make a dedicated decision right now (aside from what I've said early in this game).
I'll catch up next week. (Sunday)Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Some quick questions (try to compress answers in one post so that the others can do their discussion; i will still read by the way after this):
1. Can anyone post a new count on who healed who and hurt who?
2. Why are we not doing the voting thing anymore? Or are we still doing it kinda but without the tallying?
3. Has anyone claimed anything that potentially clears them?
4. Seraph == Seraphim?Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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I'm going to rephrase this....Albert B. Rampage wrote: Why would I buss Shinnen when I put the first hurt on her and no one followed me? Especially if Shinnen was agreeing with me from the beginning. She never contradicted me, not once.
"....especially if Shinnen was agreeing with me from the beginning..."
Perhaps you were scum with him and Shinnen was a noob (meaning he just agrees with anything his allies say).
"Why would I buss Shinnen..."
If my statement above is true, then it is a perfect reason to bus her.
===========================
I present this because I found your statement very circumstancial and is not a truly valid defense.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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ERGH... I you're experienced in this game you should know better.Albert B. Rampage wrote:
I responded to an invalid attack.Tenchi wrote:I present this because I found your statement very circumstancial and is not a truly valid defense.
If you see bad logic, you don't fight it with bad/worse logic.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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I'm just shocked with the pace of the kills. I'm thinking that we lost are lead after we got our first scum.
I am not sure of what context "the plan" you have is in, but I feel that a small group (small scum infested/infiltrated group?) dominating the hurts is just bad.
Let's have more discussion. When we added a bit of more thinking, I think we do well together. I think we should try to do what we (or you guys) did the first few days in this game.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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(I'm sandwiching my review. Reading backwards and reviewing the earlier stuff)DrippingGoofball wrote:
Really? What's so 'check' about killing Kinetic? I was just going to look up really dumb players as possible scum.Xylthixlm wrote:There's at least one chess player on the scumteam.
Kinetic was STRONGLY suspected early game. I feel it was a bad move to use rage points against him IF they were rage points. In that case, scum are just trigger happy people who want to kill people.
I am not taking out the possibility of an passionate Townie with an ability to deal secret damage too though. I have yet to review why Kinetic was hurt by people.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Who were the other people?Xylthixlm wrote:roflcopter is a serious hypocrite for trying to tar me with WaltWishbone, now. At least I had support from other people and wasn't just going on a one-man crusade.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Interesting ABR. With all that is going on right now, that statement was a long-shot. Similar to the attacks of Shinnen on the 75% thing.Albert B. Rampage wrote:
If there are 6 people attacking me, Nurse Ratchet, they can't all be scum.DrippingGoofball wrote:
So. Townies are going after you. You know they're townies, eh?Albert B. Rampage wrote:All the townies who decided to go after me
Noted.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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The thing you said: "So you know they are all townies huh..."DrippingGoofball wrote:
I don't understand this.Tenchi wrote:Interesting ABR. With all that is going on right now, that statement was a long-shot. Similar to the attacks of Shinnen on the 75% thing.
Noted.
I felt was a long shot accusation.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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NOTE: Also early on, page 156, without strong suspicions or anything, Shinnen voted for Rolf.Xylthixlm wrote:
... I actually can't tell. Walt and Hoopla were both townies, so Shinnen is acting with info there... actually the best bet for a link to a buddy in this post is Fonz.Shinnen_no_Me wrote:Hurt: Roflfor creating groups of "sure-protown-buddies", very scummy.
With an divine glow, Shinnen unsheathes her longsword, with the speed of a lighting, and swiftly yet precisely strikes the fallen Rofl's back, leaving a trial of fire as the edge cuts both the air and the flesh of the heathen.
I also read back Walt's post, and I couldn't really find a case on him. Xyl accused him of scumlurking, but I don't think anyone with a life can keep up actively to the post rate of this topic. The same happened with Hoppla. Yes, there are a few strange things, but nothing as scum like Rofl's and Fonz' attitude.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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I don't understand this proposal and I feel it is non-enforceable.The Fonz wrote:Ah, I've had an idea. Designate a specific player as designated enforcer, on a 24 hr rota. That player may not harm or heal of their own volition, but will be required to enforce the hurting without support rule (not needing support). If they break it, everyone else in the scheme masshurts, no questions asked.
We don't even need full compliance for this, as long as there's enough partaking to defend the system.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Now this worries me. Can't just we all just behave and be accountable for our hurts? If Townies are irresposnisible enough to hurt people without proper discussion, opinion from others and rebuttal etc. I feel that it will just spread out the hurts.The Fonz wrote:No.
It would be individually giving up your hurt for 24hrs at a time, so that any player who hurt unilaterally would be similarly hurt. (obviously, if someone actually needs to hurt, we move onto the next enforcer on the list).Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Well, I'd rather go for "Townies" who are apparently leading us to a series of Townie lynches, especially with crappy reasons drawn from one or two circumstancial reasons.The Fonz wrote:
If townies are irresponsible enough to do that, it will spread out the hurts. It's a deterrent.Tenchi wrote:
Now this worries me. Can't just we all just behave and be accountable for our hurts? If Townies are irresposnisible enough to hurt people without proper discussion, opinion from others and rebuttal etc. I feel that it will just spread out the hurts.The Fonz wrote:No.
It would be individually giving up your hurt for 24hrs at a time, so that any player who hurt unilaterally would be similarly hurt. (obviously, if someone actually needs to hurt, we move onto the next enforcer on the list).
I suggest we continue the review of the last few Townie wagons and the Shinnen case and see what we get there.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Do you mean this one Fonz?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 75#1576075
I am honestly not sure, but I have a couple of notes on Xyl:
178: Xylthixlm proposes we kill both Kinetic and Zwet, but let's kill Zwet first
227-228: Quick exachange. Juls accuses Xyl of twisting words, which I agree with in that instance.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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The Fonz wrote:
A wagon must have a minimum of three supporters.WeyounsLastClone wrote: And what are the exact rules. How much support is agreed upon? And can one support multiple wagons? If so, how much at once? I for one support rofl hurting Xyl, as well as the wagon now going on ABR. I also seriously question Firestarters motives (he resurrects an idea that didn't work in the first plays, and is playing on the safe side by going after the obvious).
You can only support one at a time.WTF
I have a strong feeling that there are three or more scum. That suggestion just gives more reason for a small group to go after players whenever and whatever they want.
Let's have a bigger group agreeing on it (definitely NOT three) and let's continue supporting multiple suspect wagons. It is something we can do in this game unique from other games.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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The Kinetic wagon would have been more beneficial to town if it had been decided by a substantial amount of players and not only by rolf.
Basically what Im saying is that there is no NEED to hurt someone you think is scum. You could be wrong. Thats why voting fits the same objective with LESS PROBS disastrous scenarios like we have seen so far.
And in case voting gives us a wrong decision, we HAVE something to analyse. The wagon. Not only a rabbit that thinks he, if town, is so cool being a slow vig. Also we avoid different people being hurt, pretty much like we are right now.
FIXEDYes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Good question.
I have a whole bunch of notes I will be posting later. I'm at post 615 right now. I'll stop at around 2000 since that's where I started catching up. (Note that I started my review today, so I'd be more than halfway done tomorrow.)
Currently I'm leaning towards Xyl and DGB as scum.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
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Tenchi Votes:Xyl, DGB
I still can't decide on a third name, primarily because I can't even link Xyl or DGB together.
I feel Juls would not blatantly stick his nose up ABR's ass if he was scum. I think Juls would somewhat refer to his buddies in some daytalk thread first. Now, if ABR and Juls was a pairing, then ABR should go first. There is more reason for ABR to accept Juls-puppet than for Juls-puppet to find a host.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Why do you have to wait for somebody to ask you to do something everybody (or Townies) should do, especially if you are in trouble?Seraphim wrote:Hey, rofl, how much do you want to bet that I come up scum? If I'm going to die I might as well profit from it.
Once again, I will offer my opinions on any player if anyone cares to ask.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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That suggestion doesn't make sense.Xylthixlm wrote:Completely unsupported conjecture: The scum get 2 rage per player who dies.
I don't see any way of testing this, besides waiting a while and seeing if we all die suddenly.
I don't know if you're scum deliberately trying to make us play with stupid assumptions or you are just...?Yes. That same Tenchi.
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My XYL notes. I didn't read much today except the current happenings, but I got past after Shinnen's death.
178: Xylthixlm proposes we kill both Kinetic and Zwet, but let's kill Zwet first
214: Xyl mentions to not let Seraphims use the blades unless its a damage race for the sake of transparency
226: DG denies Juls proposal to hurt Xyl
227-228: Quick exachange. Juls accuses Xyl of twisting words, which I agree with in that instance.
263-264: Xyl wants to hurt Juls or Walt. Wants to hurt Walt more for lurking.
321: Xyl repeats the Walt case: "Every word he's written has been scummy and noncommittal."
326: Zwet accuses Xyl of being trigger happy.
328: Juls wants Xyl dead because Xyl is spreading damage around.
330: Xyl requests Rolf to help with hurting Walt
334: Around here, Walt gives a good point on Xyl's math on the number of misynches Town can afford
360/368: Xyl declares Walt as scum and Seraphim is town.
377: Shinnen attacks Rolf for hypocrisy. Marks Rolf, Tajo, Xyl and ABR as scum. (Scratch that, he says it wasnt a serious comment)
404: Seraphim does not think Xyl is scum. Backs a Zwet or Walt lynch.
427: Xyl denies Walt's towniness declared by ABR.
464: Seraphim deflects. Uses WIFOM to clear Tajo. Xyl defends Seraphim.
473, 474: Xyl admits he has this weird system for cleaing people. Says Walt has done nothing to clear himself compared to others who were lurkers.
477: Xyl is against the hurting of Seraphim and Fonz.
482: Didn't read too much. Walt mentions Xyl is scummy. REVIEW THIS TENCHI
559: Xyl declares wanting to hurt Shinnen, then Walt
685: Xyl accuses Walt of being wishy washy and distancing from Shinnen
707-708: ABR thinks Xyl is protown, trusts Fonz, Rolf, Xyl, Tajo and NuwenYes. That same Tenchi.
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If scum get rewarded for every player they kill (most of which will be Townies), then it is unfair and heavily skewed against us.Xylthixlm wrote:
Why doesn't it make sense?Tenchi wrote:
That suggestion doesn't make sense.Xylthixlm wrote:Completely unsupported conjecture: The scum get 2 rage per player who dies.
I don't see any way of testing this, besides waiting a while and seeing if we all die suddenly.
I don't know if you're scum deliberately trying to make us play with stupid assumptions or you are just...?
Further, I don't even know, at this point, why you would even suggest we all wait a while now that we know scum get rage points at some faster rate.
Also, you don't spend MONEY to get MONEY back. (I spend RAGE to get more RAGE?) It's bad game design.Yes. That same Tenchi.
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
I'm not panicking because you made a ridonculous suggestion. I'm panicking because I want advice from my trusteds and they are not here. And I'm panicking because we lost three townies in one day. Two out of rage.Xylthixlm wrote:Why did Tenchi suddenly go all berserk on me when I made that suggestion? Did I say something that scares him?Yes. That same Tenchi.
Reicheru and Tenchi begin to bond more, sending love letters to each other.-
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
YOU DIDNT ANSWER THIS QUESTION.Tenchi wrote:Xyl, you are an active player in this game. Why even bother debating me on theory when we are all about to get killed?
Lemme rephrase it: Any new insights after the kills? If it's not you, then who?Yes. That same Tenchi.
Reicheru and Tenchi begin to bond more, sending love letters to each other.-
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
I'm attacking you. And your reaction is justified.Xylthixlm wrote:
You didn't actually give any reason why I must be wrong, you know.Tenchi wrote:LOL Xyl. I'm not falling for that.
Let the others judge who was right. <3Yes. That same Tenchi.
Reicheru and Tenchi begin to bond more, sending love letters to each other.-
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
We can do the math later, and that what was what you have been doing a lot in the game.Xylthixlm wrote:
I'm betting the scum are out of rage for the moment. If they aren't, we're probably going to lose anyways, so I won't worry about it.Tenchi wrote:
YOU DIDNT ANSWER THIS QUESTION.Tenchi wrote:Xyl, you are an active player in this game. Why even bother debating me on theory when we are all about to get killed?
Lemme rephrase it: Any new insights after the kills? If it's not you, then who?
At the moment I'm concentrating on the numbers. Those two points of damage to DGB and Nuwen are interesting...
Now again, tell us who you think is scum.
(For the record, I feel that speculating on why DGB and Nuwen were hurt is full of WIFOM.)Yes. That same Tenchi.
Reicheru and Tenchi begin to bond more, sending love letters to each other.-
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
LOL. You are most probably next on the chopping block. And we know that stating who you suspect is harmless. Now either...Xylthixlm wrote:I'd rather do the math. We've already proved that I'm horrible at finding scum.
1. You are scum, and is satisfied with leading 2,3 or 4 HURT motivated kills and wants your buddies to continue your job OR
2. You have stopped "scum hunting", which also means you're scum.
Pick your poison.Yes. That same Tenchi.
Reicheru and Tenchi begin to bond more, sending love letters to each other.-
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA
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Tenchi Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: November 19, 2008
- Location: California, USA