War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Seraphim]

Vote: Tenchi
roflcopter

The choice between ABR and myself is a false choice. Forcing people to choose between two players simply because they were at the top of the votecount is a false choice. What if I don't believe either player is scum?

[Seraphim]

Why does ABR get away with hurting Seraphim?

Because I'm scum, clearly.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why does ABR get away with hurting Seraphim?

Because according to the vote count, Seraphim is the vote leader.

[Nuwen]

Long term pbpa on ABR.

74: Heal: Nuwen plus request for a heal back, presumably supporting the high health buffer plan.
81: "Look guys, Kinetic is trying stalling the game by suggesting everyone not wagoned should have a high health buffer! He also doesn't want a small group of players to lead lynches, that's really anti-town guys!"
85: More theory disagreement with Kinetic - he calls Kinetic's desire for "for mass movements of kills, in a short time frame, but from multiple players, once we've decided among ourselves on a kill" misguided, and then proceeds to vote for Kinetic.
86: Speculates 4-6 scum exist.
88: More setup speculation, plus reaffirmation that he believes Kinetic's views are anti-town.
94: Asks Hoopla whether or not she'll vote for Kinetic. Urges conversation to move away from possible setups and back to "scumhunting Kinetic and his buddies."
110: Full case against Kinetic.
118: Calls Viq hypocritical for finding Rofl's declarative statements suspicious, but not DGB's. Possible chainsaw?
129: Denies directly defending Rofl, votes for Viq.
215: Offers to drop case against Kinetic in exchange for supporting hurts on Viq: "You have but to support me in killing this vIQleS player whom you also suspect, and you tear the whole case down, providing you also act in a coherent manner afterwards."
225: "I'll support a Xyl lynch if we kill vIQleS first."
229: "I need support to kill vIQleS within the hour."
236: States "mafia is a game of manipulation," linking to three prior games as town. This is where ABR caught my attention first; mafia needs only be a game of manipulation for scum. In fact, town-side gambitry and manipulative efforts usually

hurt

the town's overall play.
242: "You play your game, I play mine. Unless you can show how my actions are bad for the town in this game, you have nothing on me."
245: Everyone needs to support killing Shinnen, Viq, or Xyl. Fonz's plan says so, guys.
254: More links to completed games.
271: Scum list: DGB, Shinnen, Drench, Seraphim. Unvotes Viq.
407: Asks Q21 whether he'll back a Hoopla hurt.
410: Hurts Hoopla.
415: FOS on Juls, calling her case OMGUS. Notes her lack of contribution.
421/424: Recommends that Seraphim build his own case against Hoopla, rather than responding to current cases with agreement/disagreement.
426: Awards town points to Walt for posting more than one-liners (What?).
447/450: WAITING FOR PEOPLE TO HURT HOOPLA COME ON.
471: Condemns Xyl's case on Walt.
478: Viq is avoiding the thread guys!
483: "Walt, you better hurt shinnen, hoopla or zwet."
509: Decide between Hoopla and Shinnen, guys.
512: "EVERYONE SHOULD NOW CONCENTRATE THEIR ATTACKS ON SHINNEN_NO_ME AND HOOPLA."
533: Points out DGB's extended period of zero hurting, calls early watching a waste.
543: Hurts Shinnen
599: Follows up speculation about whether or not scum have rage points to spend yet.
600: Admits scum might have damage points, but doesn't care: "I don't care though, I'm pretty much willing to lynch DGB because this whole exchange between Kinetic and DGB looks like it was set up by scum." - immediately follows revelation that DGB is an Ophan.
696: Intent to hurt DGB, citing all her attacks are OMGUS.
701: More intent to hurt DGB. "She was the main detractor from the Shinnen lynch, and its about time for you to see it."
708: Trusted player list: Fonz, Xyl, Rofl, Tajo, Nuwen.
715: This is important enough to quote directly:

If Shinnen flips scum, I'll bet at least half the scum is in the list of people that ABR is pushing for the rest of us to hurt.

If this is what you think, then you should probably lay off of me until we kill some of the players that are "in the list of people that ABR is pushing for the rest of us to hurt". Starting with Hoopla.

DGB suggests that ABR's play was been a combination of 1) Bussing Shinnen and 2) Distancing scum buddies very early. All of ABR's other targets (Hoopla, Viq, Kinetic) have flipped town.
757: Hurts Hoopla
775: "I disagree with lynching Walt."
800: Also important enough to directly quote.

Guys, look at this:

Is this OMGUS or are you afraid to die?

I was attacking her since the beginning when she said I was confirmed town. Who is OMGUSing who, exactly?

I attacked her, she tried to appease me by calling me town, I attack her again, same thing, I attack her with as much consistency as the time before, and she gets mad and votes for me with bullshit excuses of me bussing.

811: "DGB is a total idiot. I'm ignoring her (and you guys should ignore her too)."
858: Commands Hoopla to heal Rofl.
865:

What about if we let Hoopla survive a couple of aeons more?

Look, no. Just no. We lynch her as planned.

870: Asks Tajo to explain why Hoopla is town, then proceeds to say "she's going to die, there's no escaping it. She messed up one too many times."
886 & 893: Inquires whether or not Seraphin and Rofl will also hurt Hoopla.
898: Gently accuses Giussepe of buddying up to Rofl, without providing any other case against him. I HATE bussing/buddying/distancing cases based solely on bussing/buddying/distancing behavior; these tells are used to confirm independent cases, not determine alignment with two-directional logic.
935: "OH MY GOD VIQLES CAN USE HIS HURT. AND HE JUST IGNORED IT. VIQLES HURT HOOPLA WOWOW"
945: "Tenchi, hurt Hoopla in your next post please. This is the most pro-town thing to do because leaving players at L-1 is bad for the town."
953: "Tenchi, hurt Hoopla in your next post please. This is the most pro-town thing to do because leaving players at L-1 is bad for the town."
960-973: Explodes at Walt for wanting to heal Rofl instead of hurting Hoopla, under the threat of "tunnel-visioning":

NO. I'm going to tunnel-vision on you so bad Xyl's attacks on you will be like a joke.

YOU WILL HURT HOOPLA.

This is by FAR the most PRO-TOWN, and NECESSARY thing to do.

Copter is at 12hp. You must hurt Hoopla. We can heal Copter later. OK?

At this point, ABR is threatening to build cases against players who do not behave as he wishes, rather than scumhuting.
995:@Walt

misogynistic, bone-headed, $#@*

About time you listen to me, as you would probably be dead by now if I weren't there to question the attacks against you

1003: "I am down to hurt any of the following players: Viq, Zwet,

Walt

, Drench, Tenchi."
1076: Case against DGB
1117: Hurt: Drench
1124: Main suspects: Tajo, Kinetic, Walt, Seraphim
1236: Call to hurt Kinetic
1704: Hurts Kinetic
1724:

I don't like this little giusepe dgb xyl alliance here...we should kill them all.

Stopping at contemporary play (last Saturday) so I'll have time to do an early read on Seraphim. More on ABR's more recent play after I get a bigger game picture.

[Tenchi]

Vote: Tenchi
roflcopter

The choice between ABR and myself is a false choice. Forcing people to choose between two players simply because they were at the top of the votecount is a false choice. What if I don't believe either player is scum?

Er... then why are you voting for me?

[Albert B. Rampage]

TL;DR

[Seraphim]

Vote: Tenchi
roflcopter

The choice between ABR and myself is a false choice. Forcing people to choose between two players simply because they were at the top of the votecount is a false choice. What if I don't believe either player is scum?

Er... then why are you voting for me?

Because you're scum?

[Tenchi]

Why does ABR get away with hurting Seraphim?

Because according to the vote count, Seraphim is the vote leader.

We hadn't had a new votecount? I thought Weyouns was the last one killed by the last set of votes? And I thought we're starting with a new one after his flip.

[roflcopter]

xyl, can you do some kind of pbpa on me, or are you just gonna say i've shot all town cred and join the throngs of people calling for my head. you took the time to do one on tenchi after all.

[Tenchi]

Seraphim Tenchi notes!

108: Seraphim heals back Shinnen

255: Seraphim votes Viq. Wants scummy people out rather than lurkers.

271: ABR calls the four scum out: Seraphim, Drench, DGB, Shinnen.

363: Rolf negotiates: Seraphim first, then Walt.

366: Tajo heals Seraphim

404: Seraphim does not think Xyl is scum. Backs a Zwet or Walt lynch.

417: Seraphim's case againt Zwet. Just noting it here but I don't see much since most of it is meta.

464: Seraphim deflects. Uses WIFOM to clear Tajo. Xyl defends Seraphim.

477: Xyl is against the hurting of Seraphim and Fonz.

522: Rolf grills Seraphim. REVIEW.

560: Seraphim's post. Two things irk me about this:

"Making an attack on an unharmed townie is not the work of a town player." Are you using that as an excuse to hurt Shinnen? Do you with agree why he was getting hurt? I feel that Seraphim feeling forced to do something (instead of providing alternatives, or support) because of the pressure to hurt somebody who has already been hurt to look Townie.

Then... " Also, killing the fallen Seraph will help town an amazing amount."

I'm amazed he didn't question the discussion between who is the Fallen Seraph (if there was one) between Rolf and Shinnen.

686: Seraphim accuses Walt. Now due to keeping Shinnen because she was a Seraph

710: Seraphim agrees with a Hoopla and Walt lynch.

[populartajo]

unless the claimed ophan is also scum

BRILLIANT

You know, you have to stop here and start considering this possibility since DGB is pretty much town right now.
The last game had 2 town Ophans. It was a mini. I expect at least 3 town Ophans in this game.
so unless you have another Ophan hiden, DGB cant be scum.

[Xylthixlm]

xyl, can you do some kind of pbpa on me, or are you just gonna say i've shot all town cred and join the throngs of people calling for my head. you took the time to do one on tenchi after all.

A wise man once said something like "Never ignore someone doing something scummy right now, no matter how protown they seemed before".

(I don't normally do PBPAs. I made an exception for Tenchi because he has so few posts.)

[populartajo]

Why does ABR get away with hurting Seraphim?

Because according to the vote count, Seraphim is the vote leader.

We hadn't had a new votecount? I thought Weyouns was the last one killed by the last set of votes? And I thought we're starting with a new one after his flip.

Why did you start playing right now?
You were angry with Xyl why?

[roflcopter]

this is a clusterfuck. i'll reconsider finishing off xyl. at midnight-ish one of xyl and seraphim is getting smacked.

[Tenchi]

Tajo, Xyl, Rolf: What do you think on my notes above on Post 560?

[roflcopter]

tenchi - i've been saying most of those things about seraphim since early on, so i agree

[Xylthixlm]

Tajo, Xyl, Rolf: What do you think on my notes above on Post 560?

Biased.

[Tenchi]

Why does ABR get away with hurting Seraphim?

Because according to the vote count, Seraphim is the vote leader.

We hadn't had a new votecount? I thought Weyouns was the last one killed by the last set of votes? And I thought we're starting with a new one after his flip.

Why did you start playing right now?
You were angry with Xyl why?

Again, would rather me to "start playing" later? Why are you questioning me standing up for what I think is right, right now?
I wasn't "angry" with Xyl. I just feel annoyed that nobody is supporting his lynch when he has done quite a number of suspicious things, especially subtle ones.

[populartajo]

Tajo, Xyl, Rolf: What do you think on my notes above on Post 560?

What are your conclusions of your post?
The same I ask to Nuwen.
Conclusions, people, conclusions.

[populartajo]

this is a clusterfuck. i'll reconsider finishing off xyl. at midnight-ish one of xyl and seraphim is getting smacked.

So you avoided my reasoning why?

[populartajo]

Why does ABR get away with hurting Seraphim?

Because according to the vote count, Seraphim is the vote leader.

We hadn't had a new votecount? I thought Weyouns was the last one killed by the last set of votes? And I thought we're starting with a new one after his flip.

Why did you start playing right now?
You were angry with Xyl why?

Again, would rather me to "start playing" later? Why are you questioning me standing up for what I think is right, right now?
I wasn't "angry" with Xyl. I just feel annoyed that nobody is supporting his lynch when he has done quite a number of suspicious things, especially subtle ones.

You think Xyl is still scum?

[Xylthixlm]

Again, would rather me to "start playing" later? Why are you questioning me standing up for what I think is right, right now?
I wasn't "angry" with Xyl. I just feel annoyed that nobody is supporting his lynch when he has done quite a number of suspicious things, especially subtle ones.

Your timing is too convenient. If you were town you would have been analyzing the deaths yourself, not grilling me over whether I was analyzing them.

[Tenchi]

Tajo, Xyl, Rolf: What do you think on my notes above on Post 560?

What are your conclusions of your post?
The same I ask to Nuwen.
Conclusions, people, conclusions.

Just by post 560, I think Seraphim knew that Shinnen would turn up Fallen Angel (thus not questioning the Rolf vs Shinnen discussion)

Can it be read some other way?

[Nuwen]

unless the claimed ophan is also scum

BRILLIANT

You know, you have to stop here and start considering this possibility since DGB is pretty much town right now.
The last game had 2 town Ophans. It was a mini. I expect at least 3 town Ophans in this game.
so unless you have another Ophan hiden, DGB cant be scum.

I'm inclined to agree with this - the mini kept a 2:0 town to scum ratio in the Ophanim department. Adding an extra Ophan but aligning it it with scum goes counter to all of our other balance speculations, which assume that the mini's setup did not favor the town enough.

I

hate

confirming players on circumstantial logic, but this setup requires the town to indulge overlapping possible setups and determine which makes the most sense.

If DGB can be pseudo-confirmed, Xyl is pseudo-confirmed. Scum Xyl requires this game to have a 2:1 ratio for Ophanim. This explains the misplaced damage on DGB, which is probably just an effort to whittle her down. It doesn't account for the random damage tossed in my direction. I'm still wtfuxing on over that.

[Tenchi]

Again, would rather me to "start playing" later? Why are you questioning me standing up for what I think is right, right now?
I wasn't "angry" with Xyl. I just feel annoyed that nobody is supporting his lynch when he has done quite a number of suspicious things, especially subtle ones.

Your timing is too convenient. If you were town you would have been analyzing the deaths yourself, not grilling me over whether I was analyzing them.

I have been analyzing stuff! When I have the time! (hence Tenchi notes)

If timing is an issue, then when should I have come up to speak up?