War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[WaltWishbone]

So I am not sure I have a complete understanding of the way this game works, however I am comfortable making a few early observations. I do not feel confident enough yet to make a vote or hurt/heal anyone.

My initial thoughts from reading the first six pages are; Cybele, Hoopla, and Kinetics opening posts came across as very honest and containend an element of truth which would indicate they had no idea what kind of Rage, ect abilities scum may have. Although, I do understand a couple of points made against Kinetic, I would have a hard time voting for him at this point. I think ABR has put in lot of detail into his research and subsequent reasoning behind his post however I want to go back and reread the first 6 pages (as well as the previous game) before elaborating.

I am a bit torn between two different stratagies, I do however agree with going with a majority. I am not sure whether it would be best to hold onto my hurt/heal until the rest of the players have a chance to check in and and add their thoughts or if I should return the favor and heal vIQleS? (thanks by the way )

One thing I am not clear about in the rules is how time works in this set-up? In otherwords, do we have 24 hours from Mr. Flay's post to hurt/heal someone 1 time? Tomorrow by 7am? Also if we dont use a hurt/heal does it carry over to the next 24 hour period?

I am gonna reread everything now and try to get a better handle on how this set-up works, thanks for any advice.

[Kinetic]

This is more of a limitation on a small group from forcing a lynch/kill on someone with little to no input from anyone else. I feel that the smaller the group pushing the kills the more that the scum can influence said group. I want at least SOME sort of consensus before we kill someone off.

The easiest way to do this is to cannibalize any small group of players bouncing from kill to kill. There's no need to neuter the entire town's capacity to quickhurt.

That's a fair idea.

And just to reiterate, I'm not looking for a solid majority consensus for every lynch (although I would prefer it), I'm looking for at least having a majority of the players in the game giving an opinion before we decide on a target.

[vIQleS]

Also, this prevents us to see true accountability on Hurt and Heal actions. If we let Hurt and Heal actions to be as natural as possible then we will be able to dig through better intentions of each ad every person.

On another note, I totally agree with the fake voting system because it lets us express our disagreements and scum hunting without putting innocent people in jeopardy.

You can't agree with both of these - the vote system is specifically designed to make the hurting less haphazard and therefore less 'natural'

This was said after some people told him not to post definitive statements without explanation.

No one told anyone anything. Opinions were expressed. Suspicion was cast...

Good catch.

FoS: ViQ

. I renew Shinnen's question, how are you so sure about the distribution?

115

[populartajo]

Votecount.

Kinetic. 5(Tajo, ABR, Shinnen, Cybele, rolf)
Rolf 2 (Hoopla, Tenchi)
Xyl 2 (viqles, zwet)
Hoopla 2(q21, Tenchi)
Viqles 1 (ABR, Kinetic)
Cybele 1 (Kinetic)

Not voting 10 (Drench, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe, Juls, Nuwen, roflcopter, Seraphim,The Fonz,WaltWishbone,Xylthixlm,)

Lurker count 3 (Drench, Giuseppe, Fonz)

[populartajo]

This game is pretty much vanilla nightless with a strange voting mechanic. As long as we don't bring people down to low HP without killing them, or take so long that the scum get enough "rage points" to kill someone with lots of HP, the town can completely control the order people die in. Vanilla nightless is usually biased towards the town; there's no reason we should lose.

It looks like the once-per-24-hours limit isn't enough to seriously slow down the speed at which the town can kill people, but if there are a lot of people sitting around doing nothing or (even worse) healing everyone who gets hurt, it might be a problem. Automatic healing is a

horrible

idea and will just slow the game down, which gives the scum an advantage.

While I'm at it,

Hurt: Juls

Xylthixlm draws his shiny golden Hammer of Justice. He waits until Juls's back is turned, then flies up and bops him over the head. SQUEAK!

Why Juls?
Also why did you choose to ignore what Ive been posting so far?
Prove how automatic healing is more advantageous for scum than for town.

[populartajo]

@Kinetic: of all possible candidats, why did you choose to heal ABR?
I told you to heal someone else.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Good catch.

FoS: ViQ

. I renew Shinnen's question, how are you so sure about the distribution?

115

Not necessarily, you know? In F11 games, mafia is a 22% of the total population. In other games, mafia can go as low as 20% or as high as 30%. But you just said a solid number, not even a "I'm guessing" or "about 75%". That's what I found suspicious.

speaking of organize, i'm organizing a brute squad, and inducting the following obviously town people into it immediately: abr, xyl, dgb, and tajo (if he'll accept). we should all agree on one person and put them down. over and over, until we've killed all the scum.

Obviously? Maybe for you, but not for me. You and those four players can as well be scum buddies trying to pass as townies together. In fact, the way that you speak so sure about their alignment makes me think that at least you are scum. Any player who let the game be ruled by a minority of "selected" player obviously wants the town to lose. Discussion in mafia games has a purpose, you know? And that's preventing scum like you trick town with your so-called-obviously-fake pro-town strategy.

Vote: Rolf

[Tenchi]

Good catch.

FoS: ViQ

. I renew Shinnen's question, how are you so sure about the distribution?

115

Not necessarily, you know? In F11 games, mafia is a 22% of the total population. In other games, mafia can go as low as 20% or as high as 30%. But you just said a solid number, not even a "I'm guessing" or "about 75%". That's what I found suspicious.

I hope you don't find him suspicious because of something very semantic (which I think you're driving at.)

If he added the phrase "I'm guessing" or "about 75%" would it change your view of him?

Finding arguments because of a play on words is bad town play.

[roflcopter]

the scum hate it so much when town identify other town, it screws everything up for them

anyone who wants to join the brute squad, make your intentions known by hurting kinetic the next time you can take an action

[roflcopter]

the attacks on viq over the 75% thing are a load of crap

[Tenchi]

Also, this prevents us to see true accountability on Hurt and Heal actions. If we let Hurt and Heal actions to be as natural as possible then we will be able to dig through better intentions of each ad every person.

On another note, I totally agree with the fake voting system because it lets us express our disagreements and scum hunting without putting innocent people in jeopardy.

You can't agree with both of these - the vote system is specifically designed to make the hurting less haphazard and therefore less 'natural'

Correct. But I feel that the voting system is a good balance of being "natural" and getting intentions without putting people in bad shape.

[roflcopter]

Rofl's crazy attacking is noted.

this is alarmingly non interactive. are you just going to note things down in your little black book, or are you gonna join us in playing this game?

This is so creepy. The last time I saw people do this, it allowed scum in the council (even when they were in the minority) to manipulate the vote. Also, why should we trust your choices? I feel just placing one scum in that council of four can really sway things.

sway things? pshaw, the brute squad is just a more efficient method for my will to be done.

This was said after some people told him not to post definitive statements without explanation.

Er... is rolfcopter drunk...?

to quote a certain tv character, "don't tell me what i can't do"

For me, "gut feels" come froms some hint of scumminess. Sure even with weak suspicions.

I want to know if Rolfcopter:

1. Has reasons
2. If his reasons are strong are weak.
3. If he admits his reasons are strong or weak

I don't care whether somebody calls somebody out, but I always look for a reason.

i always have reasons. they're always strong because i'm awesome. gut feels are just as valid on marking who is town as who is scum, something which your comments here ignore.

kinetic's 148 is a whole big tirade against abr, but abr already won that argument. then there's the bit about how i'm scum, but yet he doesn't think i'm scum... and the same with xyl... could you buddy moar harder please?

shinnen_no_me is also scum. these scumbags need to stop coordinating their actions so obviously.

[Drench]

God you people post fast. Damnit.

On Kinetic: I can see the arguments, but for me they aren't really substantial. I wouldn't hurt Kinetic on those arguments alone.

I like the fake voting system. It allows us to express our suspicions while not actually putting said suspect in trouble.

Don't like that idea of roflcopter's. As tenchi wrote:

This is so creepy. The last time I saw people do this, it allowed scum in the council (even when they were in the minority) to manipulate the vote. Also, why should we trust your choices? I feel just placing one scum in that council of four can really sway things.

Let's remind ourselves that no one is perfect. If roflcopter makes one mistake during the formation of this council, then we immediately get disadvantaged. Not a risk I would be willing to take.

Heal: Xylthixlm

. Random.org FTW.

[Kinetic]

The more I think about it, the more I feel the best scum strategy is a highly aggressive one. Especially if they can make it look townie to be aggressive.

[Tenchi]

Drench, several other cases have been posted.

Do you have a new case (notice anything weird)?
Which of the existing cases do you agree with?

[Tenchi]

The more I think about it, the more I feel the best scum strategy is a highly aggressive one. Especially if they can make it look townie to be aggressive.

When is this NOT a good scum strategy? I feel that all games would benefit scum if they were aggressive in "scum hunting".

[roflcopter]

The more I think about it, the more I feel the best scum strategy is a highly aggressive one. Especially if they can make it look townie to be aggressive.

the more you try to slander me, the more it will not work

[Drench]

Drench, several other cases have been posted.

Do you have a new case (notice anything weird)?
Which of the existing cases do you agree with?

Answering your first question: Not a thing.

On your second, I believe these are the cases presented:

Kinetic: As explained above, I don't agree with it fully.

Xyl: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the case here is that post:

I don't see any need to subvert the hurt/heal mechanism.

Just try to concentrate your fire on people who are already hurt, rather than wearing everyone down at once.

That will make it harder for scum to suddenly kill townies using secret damage.

As several people have said, a fast-paced game helps the town even more than normal.

Expect scum to try to slow it down by lurking.

Something about those sentences is off. Let me think.

Oh yeah. Xyl is suggesting we finish off everyone that loses a bit of health instead of spreading around the

joy

pain. The he suggests we cut down on the information gathering. You know, to hurt the scum.

Perfectly normal.

Vote: Xyl

. I now hate random.org.

vIQ: I believe this was about the definite percentage. I agree it's fishy.

FoS: vIQ

. At the very least, I'd like to know how he managed to get such an exact number.

rofl: To cover in more detail from above, I believe rofl is playing very aggressivly. Not a fan of that. If we all played like rofl, as someone said I believe, by D3 we'd all be dead. That wouldn't help our chances of defeating the Fallen.

I don't know if I missed anyone. Take a number if so.

[roflcopter]

no if we all played like me, then we'd already have killed kinetic and we'd be working on his scumpartner hoopla. get it right.

[Xylthixlm]

What the heck? Why on earth did you hurt Juls? Did you miss the agreement that rage points can be less effective if everyone is healthier?

Heal: Juls

Vote: Xyl

zwetschenwasser is scum. Everyone help me kill him.

[Xylthixlm]

Think of it like this: If there are 2-3 players out of 20 who are lurking, I can get behind not waiting for them. That is a small group. If there are 12-14 players not giving input I cannot get behind said lynch/kill.

If there are ANY players who are lurking and not giving input

we kill them first

.

This is not negotiable.

[Xylthixlm]

The more I think about it, the more I feel the best scum strategy is a highly aggressive one. Especially if they can make it look townie to be aggressive.

Kinetic needs to die, too. Trying to slow the game down, scum? We're not giving you any extra rage points.

[Kinetic]

You're all blinded by rage and deserve your fates -.-;

[Xylthixlm]

Our God is a vengeful God.

[Juls]

Xyl, you didn't have to agree with the mass-heal plan or heal me but to hurt me for no apparent reason just shows that you are reckless (which is anti-town).

Vote: Xyl