Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!
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karnos Mafia Scum
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karnos Mafia Scum
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So it's an abbreviation for Let-Me-Know-Guy? Gotcha.In post 23, LmkGuy wrote:Alright but don't say I didn't warn you...
I always had lame 12ie names for my accounts, but this name comes from minecraft. Now when I had to make my username for MC, I didn't know about multiplayer and I didn't really care about my name, so I made it
lmknjbhvgcfxdz (+10 internet points if you figure out how I got that)
Then when I started playing other games after this, I used to make my name lmk - chris
One day I was playing Dota2 with some friends and we all added 'guy' onto the ends of our names (so RoughBread became RoughGuy, Enyoyo became EnyoGuy etc etc). I guess after that I figured LmkGuy was as good a name as any, so I just left it and have used it ever since.
If anyone is still awake that's how I came up with my name, its not fucking 'let me know guy'
Anyway, I still think we should kill Karnos for this grievous offence against me-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Challenge accepted.In post 43, Knighty Knight wrote:Odds on you being a scum for pushing him so hard so early in the game for no legitimate reason other then you "having a gut scumread" which is a 50/50 true or false (basically a good way to justify an illegitimate reason).
TL;DR you don't really a good reason to push alpaca so hard
VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Could this be the game where we both rolled the same alignment? I feel like it's due, but randomness can be funny.
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karnos Mafia Scum
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It means I am more than willing to be seen as scum for pushing "so hard" early in the game.In post 89, Nero Cain wrote:
What does this mean?In post 49, karnos wrote:
Challenge accepted.In post 43, Knighty Knight wrote:Odds on you being a scum for pushing him so hard so early in the game for no legitimate reason other then you "having a gut scumread" which is a 50/50 true or false (basically a good way to justify an illegitimate reason).
TL;DR you don't really a good reason to push alpaca so hard
VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca
1- I don't have a problem with being seen as scum by some random dude I've never played with.
2- Pushing hard and getting a real wagon going is how the game starts to get real, I'm certainly not going to resist it because someone thinks it looks scummy.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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I thought you wanted to hammer Alpaca. What changed?
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karnos Mafia Scum
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The argument you tried to blow off as a joke?In post 173, aronagrundy wrote:
How haven't I been causing conflict? Did you miss my argument with pp?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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151 Are you acting dumb on purpose?In post 185, aronagrundy wrote:
When did I do this?In post 177, karnos wrote:
The argument you tried to blow off as a joke?In post 173, aronagrundy wrote:
How haven't I been causing conflict? Did you miss my argument with pp?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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I'm pretty sure he is town.In post 253, PenguinPower wrote:And what do you think of karnos?
That is an open question to everyone.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Okay.In post 286, ironstove wrote:
SCUM DETECTED, LYNCH TRACER ASAP.
People, the post above me is a generic strategy of lazy/afk scum 101... Please gather your votes and remove the scum tracer out of the game. Thank you.
VOTE: tracer-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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I don't. Iron seems fairly towny, following his lead seems like a good plan for now in the absence of any strong scum reads.In post 316, Saru wrote:
Karnos is on the scummy side of null. Hasn't posted all too much, but when he does, mainly one liners.In post 253, PenguinPower wrote:And what do you think of karnos?
That is an open question to everyone.
@Karnos: Why do you think Tracer is scum besides what iron said?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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I sure do. I don't see any reason to talk about them right now though.In post 328, AlpacaAlpaca wrote:so you don't think that tracer is scummy but your voting her because you don't have any scum reads? If thats the case do you have any other town reads-
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karnos
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karnos Mafia Scum
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I don't see the need to announce who my "conf town" are, as all it does is give them a list of good nightkill targets. If someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town.In post 334, AlpacaAlpaca wrote:
So you don't see any reason to talk about your reads? Or just the Tracer read?In post 330, karnos wrote:
I sure do. I don't see any reason to talk about them right now though.In post 328, AlpacaAlpaca wrote:so you don't think that tracer is scummy but your voting her because you don't have any scum reads? If thats the case do you have any other town reads-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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karnos Mafia Scum
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That is dead wrong. I shared full reads lists, had multiple "scum" reads, confirmed town as confirmed town etc. And I was scum, that is the one thing you do remember correctly.In post 354, Saru wrote:
Karnos, I remember you saying this exact thing as scum in our first game together. You say you don't have any scum reads(and clearly aren't making an effort to scum hunt) but also that you wouldn't call out who you read as town until they were wagoned. In other words, you're going to lurk and be dead weight for the town until someone you want lynched gets wagoned.In post 341, karnos wrote:Sharing town reads gives scum a road map to victory.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Karnos
And as scum, I won because town sharing full reads gave us an easy path to victory, we just killed the people who scum read us the most and kept town alive who had poor reads.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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This was my reads post from the game saru is talking about:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7995623
I'm not sure how anyone can say that that play was similar to my refuse to share irrelevant reads in this game. I doubt saru would pull this BS as scum, because it's so easy to prove wrong, yet nevertheless he is spewing BS that makes no logical sense. I think he is just town that was sore from losing mini 1800 and wants to get me lynched so there is no chance of being fooled again. Unfortunetly, I am town this game, so he is just hurting town by pushing to lynch me.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Not a very strong defense. I don't see a need to unvote based on your silly OMGUS and reiteration of what everyone has seen occur in thread.In post 356, Thor665 wrote:Greetings all, read the last two pages (or a page and a half, however you care to parse it)
Unvote: AlpacaAlpaca
Vote: Karnos
Explains vote on me via claiming a townread on Iron, then tosses out that townread discussion gak. Yeah, right.
The wagon on me appears to be based on activity for a slot that eventually replaced out - the defense rests.
What else is happening right now?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Quit spreading misinformation. I said sharing town reads is counterproductive.In post 366, AlpacaAlpaca wrote: @Karnos - if you don't think discussing townand scumreadsare valuable to town how do you propose we find who scum is?
I have no problem at all with the sharing of scum reads, by all means spill your guts: who are your scum reads, alpaca*2?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Yeah okay, you are way over-invested in this because of past games. BTW, your memory is faulty, MathBlade was trying to bus me all game, certainly didn't push to defend me in any way at all.In post 365, Saru wrote: From Mini 1800. So yes, you did say this. Also, the argument that I would want to lynch you because I'm "sore" from losing to you is silly and egotistic. You didn't even do anything in 1800, that was all Math coaching you. If anything, I wouldn't be sore because I beat Math just recently as scum in my previous game, so I guess I got my revenge?
Also, nice strawman. I clearly said you're not scum hunting this game but are also not willing to provide town reads this game. So you're doing nothing. You're just sitting there, twiddling your thumbs, probably waiting for a town player to get wagoned to hop on.
The fact that you mention beating Math laterproveshad something to make up for after that loss, and nailing me would be obviously #2 on that list. TBH I'm tempted right here to just throw and let town lynch me, because seeing you screw up the game would be satisfying from a personal perspective, but to play to my win condition it would be a terrible play. And then there is the edge case where scum!Saru risks it all because of a personal vendetta against me, it would be a utter fail to let you get me miss-lynched in that case.
And you are wrong. I am scum hunting, I'm sorry if you aren't observant enough to realize that. Sometimes the best way to catch scum is to dangle a bit of bait.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Oh come one now, we aren't that stupid. "You didn't even do anything in 1800, that was all Math coaching you. " Is there some other interpretation to that other than you trying to implie that I only survived until endgame and won as scum (with a single loss of my team for that matter) was because MathBlade carried me. Yet he was busing me the whole game, so the implication in your post is an obvious lie. Yes, you are being careful to not directly lie, but instead you are making statements that are only actually relevant if you make assumptions that aren't actually true.
I was at L-1 several times in that game. MathBlade didn't jump in and save me, in fact he was voting me every time. You and the rest of town in that game made the decision to not lynch me, repeatedly, because of my actions. MathBlade was an awesome scum partner and we bounced a lot of ideas in scum chat, but if you are going to claim he was coaching me all game you need to re-visit the game and the scum thread.
Okay, that sounds like something worth talking about, instead of this irrelevant meta-gaming argument that I must be scum. What are my dumb arguments, from this game?In post 373, Saru wrote: You have some really dumb arguments.
How can you be so oblivious? I brought it up without having any idea whatsover that you later "beat" MathBlade in another game. I was guessing it might be a personal vendetta, you confirmed my guess. If I brought it up and I was wrong you wouldn't have confirmed my statement by admitting that were apparently keeping score.In post 373, Saru wrote: The only reason I mention Math is because I'm trying to prove a point that even if your argument about "vendetta" had any merit, it would be disproven by that. You brought it up first, genius.
Magna? Wow, you memorized the whole scumteam from that game. More evidence that it apparently hit really hard when you got that loss.In post 373, Saru wrote: Also, #2? wtf!? lmfao! I guess I should start seeking out Magna too to make sure I get my personal revenge on him? You really sound foolish, you're doing nothing to help the town, and just seeking to discredit me but not my arguments. You need rope. Badly.
Yeah, sorry I care more about quality than quantity. Your scum read of me is dead wrong, might want to fix your radar. I mean if I wanted to act like Saru I could give a handful of scum reads based on idiotic meta observations, but they wouldn't be very accurate.In post 373, Saru wrote:
"I have no problem saying my scum reads, but hey, here's a post where I don't put out scum reads." LOLkarnos wrote:I have no problem at all with the sharing of scum reads, by all means spill your guts: who are your scum reads, alpaca*2?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Yeah, cool, you both get a feeling of something being fake that I am not even doing, that is nice. Care to comment on what I actually am doing?In post 377, cmitc1 wrote:
I also kinda get the same feeling about it being fake I hate those "just lynch me" reactions.In post 374, Saru wrote:
This is a terrible over-reaction, and feels fake as fuck.In post 372, karnos wrote:TBH I'm tempted right here to just throw and let town lynch me, because seeing you screw up the game would be satisfying from a personal perspective, but to play to my win condition it would be a terrible play.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Incoming off-topic game play theory, skip if you don't care.In post 381, LmkGuy wrote: As for Karnos, he is playing a scum recklessly or he is a frustrated town member. I am not too sure which side of the fence he lands on, based on reading his ISO. I am not super convinced of the meta-scum argument that saru is basing his read off, but his reaction to said read is what interests me the most. It seems like he is getting extremely worked up over this and that is why I have my read on him as either frustrated townie or overconfident scum.
Meh, it's an evolution in my play. I'm not a long time veteran, but I have been playing here for some 9 months or so I think. When I first started, I played like this, and I got scum-read for it, and sometimes miss-lynched. After a few games I adjusted my play style to something that fits more into the general "town meta" of these boards, and didn't get miss-lynched as often, but it didn't actually make me win any more often as town.
I've come to realize that playing to the meta is really just playing to lose. At best you play the same as everyone else and maybe have a 50% chance to win, but anyone smart enough to play in a way that counters the general meta style will easily deceive you. I'm not going to play to lose. If it gets my lynched because my fellow town players are too dumb to think there might be a way to play other than standard meta, so be it- if that is the case is probably a loser game for town anyway, so my lynch won't change anything anyway. So that is where this defeatist attitude comes from. I am not going to change my play style, I am not going to give you your "reads" you want so bad, because it's BAD PLAY.
I mean, the most hilarious thing to me about the common meta here is that giving town reads is seen as A+++ good townie move, but any speculation at all about power roles is super bad scummy play. Except if someone is actually scum, they can discuss PR in scum chat, while town reads just give scum a guide on who to kill first, who to bus, etc. It's hilariously bad logic, but because it's become ingrained into the meta here everyone seems to think it's a good way to play.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Doesn't this sound ridiculous to anyone else?In post 376, Saru wrote: You clearly don't know the difference between being coached and being bussed. Yes, Math bussed the shit out of you, but that has nothing to do with the fact that she coached your play throughout. In fact, it has nothing to do with what I've been saying. She literally would fix minute details of your posts and read lists to make them more townie-friendly. Her bussing you means nothing. That was her doing things to make herself look more townie because of site meta.
MathBlade busing me meant an extra vote on me. My other scum partner was also busing me much of the game. And you STILL failed to get me lynched- in fact you decided I was a good target to recruit as a mason, and you killed yourself trying to recruit me. I guess that is why you are still sore about it.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=66834
For the record, MathBlade didn't want me to claim Neapolitan, yet I did because I knew it was a decent play. It saved me from lynch day 1, and every day after. Apparently it fooled you too. Feel free to continue to blame the loss on MathBlade, but saying I did "nothing" that game is just pure ignorance.
You are really not paying attention. I thought you were town, sore about the loss. How in any way is that me discrediting you as a person?In post 376, Saru wrote: The dumb argument is that you think I'm pushing you because I'm mad about the loss, and you're still pushing that line of attack. That is not an argument for why you're town, but only an argument to discredit me as a person. As scum, it's in your best interest to just discredit when you don't have an argument. And I'm not using meta to call you scum. Forget for a moment that I even mentioned Mini 1800. How about what I said about your play this game with you doing nothing? You have time to respond to my posts accusing you, but can't muster up the time to scum-hunt or put out reads? I don't think so.
But the way you have started obsessing over this and trying to defend your obvious lies makes me think that maybe you are scum, and you don't dare admit where you lied. Town!Saru could just say saru for the misteak, I was wrong. Scum!Saru has to won the argument, as wrong as it is, and push it until you get your miss lynch. This is looking like the later.
If it's nonsense why are you so focused on it? Why are you keeping score? Why are you re-reading old games of mine? Are you reading through old games for everyone in the game... 12 players *X games each.. where do you have the time? Or is this just a personal vendetta against me?In post 376, Saru wrote: What? Are you even reading what I said? I said that your argument of personal vendetta is total nonsense and I was making a mostly jokish remark about beating Math, therefore having gotten my "revenge." It was a poke at your silly argument. See: the laughing emote at the end of that sentence.
Yes you can. My question is why just me? If you are legitimately scum hunting, you should be reading through everyone's games or no ones games. Why are you hyper focused on me?In post 376, Saru wrote: Guess what buddy, there are things called archives. You can go back and read games from the past, surprise, I know!
I'm voting someone. Are you reading the tracer/thor slot as town? Why not talk about that if you have issue with my scum hunting?In post 376, Saru wrote: So your excuse for not scum hunting is because you wouldn't be very accurate? I guess we should all just stop scum hunting then and wait until the deadline? Like, that is no excuse. No one is perfect, myself included. Yes, you might be wrong, so what? Atleast you tried. Or would you rather be a dead weight all game?
I don't think sharing town reads is pro-town. That is my stance, period. That doesn't mean I am not scum hunting, quit trying to put lies into my mouth. That is what scum does. You are quickly eroding the bias-town read I had of you and turning it into a malicious-scum read.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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This turns into a circular argument: as town, why should I bother giving you guys my town reads, you can just look at my scum reads and use PoE to see who I read as town.In post 387, Thor665 wrote: If you claim who your scum reads are - what prevents scum from just reversing the list to get your town reads?
Of course the real answer is that it's more complex than that. There are varying levels: "confirmed town, obvious town, probably town, nullish town, etc. If, for the sake of argument, I was being globally read as obvious town, and of course scum knows I am town, they might use that information to nightkill me because they know I would be hard to get a miss lynch on. OTOH if I am largely read as scum, null, or at best nullish town, that tells scum that they can let me live and try to get me killed through a lynch. But if you don't give out town reads as specific as that, all the scum really gets is that X people scum read karnos, no idea about the rest... they have less information.
It's good to keep town power roles secret from scum, everyone agrees on that. So why is it good to tell scum who your most trusted town reads are? It's completely illogical.
First you say there isn't a "not PR list", and then you point out that such a thing actually does exist once people start claiming. You contradicted yourself here, so I don't really need to go into further detail. Suffice to say it's yet another illogical contradiction of the common meta that it's terrible bad to speculate about power roles but it's A+ good to get a claim out of a suspected scum.In post 387, Thor665 wrote: That doesn't work with PRs last I checked, because there's no such thing as a "not a PR list".
The proper compare - would be forcing multiple claims, especially on slots you don't scum read, which does narrow down scum's pools, and people do argue that as anti town.
In the scenario where Saru is scum, and the Tracer/Thor slot is scum, this is scum!Thor telling Saru to back off because he is drawing too much attention to himself and he will be the next one lynched after I flip town.In post 387, Thor665 wrote: Your debate with Saru is becoming very much white noise to me. I do tend to agree with his stance, because you appear to be more emotionally worked up, and I think his point about suggesting his scum read on you is based on you beating him elsewhere is pretty plainly fabricated (feel free to explain how it's a valid issue if you can - it looks like flail to me).
Are you calling Saru scummy?
If not, can we drop the debate and/or simply focus on what he's calling you scummy over?
@Saru - same goes for you, let's just pretend you bested Karnos on all the piddly points, and narrow down those walls by about half, yeah?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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But what have you don since you replaced in? You placed an OMGUS vote on me, and... pretty much nothing else. Until your last post on the Saru/Karnos argument, pretty much all your posts have been self defense. Where are you scum hunting? You aren't me, and you don't seem to agree with my philosophy on sharing reads, so where are your reads?In post 386, Thor665 wrote:
So - how does your case make any sense at all in any way?
It's scummy that you're still acting like it does.
Justify your play?-
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Am I getting this correctly?In post 390, Thor665 wrote: I think you are easily more likely to be flipped than Saru from this debate - in fact it is my intention to flip you regardless of the debate.
I don't see Saru being particularly at risk regardless of your flip though - no one is remotely making that claim.
Arguably, myself as your largest scumread (maybe) is the more likely person to be lynched if you flip town, right?
I note that you don't actually clarify the simple question of if you're scumreading him for these comments, nor do you address me pointing out how you're flailing, which you are.
You want me lynched, and you don't care if I am town, but you are pretty sure Saru is town and you don't want him read as scum for getting a townie lynched.
That sounds pretty damn scummy to me, but maybe I am misunderstanding you.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Why are you putting OMGUS in quotes?In post 393, Thor665 wrote: I would suggest that my "OMGUS" is scumhunting. I expressed why I found you scummy, voted you, and that is a far more active and clear stance than my predecessor. It's pretty silly to suggest I'm playing like here whether or not I have a lot of reads now, because you've played with me multiple times and are fully aware that inactivity and hiding my opinions is not how I play regardless of alignment, so why are you trying to suggest that it is?
Can you re-phrase your case on me without mentioning the fact that I am voting your slot? I don't think so.-
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So you think my strategy is flawed, but you are following it anyway? That would be anti-town from your point of view.In post 393, Thor665 wrote: As to my reads, currently I have expressed scum on you and Iro though I have said your scum flip would pretty much auto town Iro for me. By dint of my agreeing and supporting Saru thus far, I think scum are incapable of figuring out my read on him, so I'll keep it hidden . I don't have any other particular reads at this point.-
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In post 390, Thor665 wrote: If scum can't figure out confirmed town and obvious null read lurkers and then look at scum reads to not be able to figure out town reads - then I think town has less things to worry about then stating their town reads.
I'm tired of the walls, but I want to respond to this point because it's such BS.
So you think scum can figure out who is town-read without read lists easily enough, but you think town are too dumb to figure out the same?
Why is it pro-town to share town reads if players can figure out town reads so easily anyway?
Or, if you think scum can figure out town reads but town players can't, why do you think players lose several dozen points of IQ when they roll town?
In truth, I think the opposite is generally true. Scum already know who is town! They start with perfect information on that, they don't need to analyze posts as much as town. town are trying to figure out who is scum, and in that process develop some useful town reads. But when it comes time to pick a night kill, scum love nothing mroe than nice organized lists that they can look at and compare to figure out the best kill target.-
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The tags don't change shit. You still aren't sharing reads, which from my understanding is something Thor doesn't believe is pro-town.In post 403, Thor665 wrote: My bad, I left out the tags - edited them back in to help you.
As a joke or not, why are you acting anti-town?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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In post 399, karnos wrote:
Why are you putting OMGUS in quotes?
Can you re-phrase your case on me without mentioning the fact that I am voting your slot? I don't think so.
In post 402, Thor665 wrote:Explains the vote he is makingvia claiming a townread on Iron, then tosses out that townread discussion gak. Yeah, right.
Done and done.
So your idea of a case without mentioning the vote on you is to just mention that I am making a vote and leave out the fact that it is a vote on your slot. I see you are very jokey today. Do you have any serious answers or are you now willing to admit it's obvious a case of OMGUS?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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I guess you are just scum.In post 408, Thor665 wrote: Maybe I overestimated your grasp of sarcasm, or underestimated my ability to make a joke?
The point is you were asked to provide reads. A joke isn't reads. Your case against me, if I understand it correctly, is my refusal to share reads + my vote on your slot. But here you are using sarcasm and joking instead of offering reads.
You are the one who is saying sharing reads is a good thing and yet you are not doing that.-
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402 "Explains the vote he is making via claiming a townread on Iron, then tosses out that townread discussion gak. Yeah, right."In post 412, Thor665 wrote:
I did what in the where now?In post 411, karnos wrote:Your case against me, if I understand it correctly, is my refusal to share reads
I happily disagree that it is pro town, but I never said it made you scummy.
I said the concept that you're claiming it is anti-town while performing actions that don't agree with your stated concept of how to play pro-town is scummy.
Functionally I'm calling your hypocrisy scummy.
You're now arguing insane things with me.
@Iro - why the direct dodge of my question about your case on me followed by sheeping onto the wagon I'm currently supporting?
In 402 you said you find me scummy because of 1- voting you, 2- because of my philosophy on sharing town reads.
If it doesn't make me scummy, then why is it your stated case on me? Are you saying you don't find me scummy, but you are voting me anyway? Is that an accidental scum claim?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Ah, I guess you are ignoring 340 and calling me a hypocrite because I shared a town read.
Sorry, nice try but that argument doesn't fly. I am against needlessly sharing town reads, but I will share reads if there is a clear benefit. In the case of voting you and following iron's lead it was a clear case, at least to me, where sharing my town read of him was overall a positive.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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LOL, it's not about my ego. Your whole point was you didn't care about losing to me because you didn't think I did anything to cause you to lose. That is, you were trying to make it sound like you have no reason to be bias against me. After changing your story, you now have a reason to be bias. I get the obvious sarcasm, but sarcasm can just be a convenient way for you to avoid answering a hard question truthfully when you know the answer paints you as a liar.In post 416, Saru wrote: If it helps your ego, then sure, you totally helped your team win the game man. Totally. Again, this discussion isn't really relevant to what I'm talking about and just serves as a distraction.
What post of mine is that quote from? Don't misrepresent me, don't use quote marks if you are not actually quoting me, that is the same as lying.In post 416, Saru wrote: It's you saying"don't listen to anything Saru has to say about me because his judgement is clouded from a previous game!"Besides that just being a flail argument, that is also an attempt to discredit me, and not arguing against my arguments. It basically tries to invalidate any point I try to make on you with a broad brush.
I mean sure it is a flail argument, but it's one I didn't make so what is your point?
I'm not claiming anything about your meta. If you are town and you want to win, and you made an obvious error in an accusation, you should realize that the scum read based on an error is leading you astray. It has nothing to do with your meta, it has to do with fucking basic logic. If your initial assumptions are wrong, your result is going to come out wrong as well. The fact that you instead keep trying to twist things around and move your goalposts show that you don't see me as scum because of my refusal to share reads, but instead you just decided I was scum (or an easy miss lynch) and are making up reasons after the fact.In post 416, Saru wrote: I know for a fact you're lying here about my meta because from Mini 1800 it should be clear that the latter is more town!Saru. I literally posted like a half a page wall on Dierfire in 1800 and I didn't let down on him until he was lynched. And even when he flipped town, I didn't stop walling on people. As town, I'm pretty damn out there because as scum I'm too scared of being lynched to get into wall arguments with people. My last game as scum is a good example of that. I lurked 24/7 basically.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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When I said you memorized the whole scumteam, this was your response:In post 416, Saru wrote: Can you flail a little less? Thanks. Point to a post where I said I was reading old games of you? I've not read a single old game of yours. Everything I've been saying when it comes to past things is in reference to 1800, if you haven't noticed, since that's the only game we've played together. So you're either lying or you're so scared to be lynched that you're just typing without thinking. Either way, you're scum.
You need to learn how to read properly. Go look at what that "archives" point was responding to.
"Guess what buddy, there are things called archives. You can go back and read games from the past, surprise, I know!"
So were you lying then when you implied that you went back to read the game (which means I was right on the money, you did memorize the scum team), or are you lying now, saying you have not read a single old game of mine? Which one is a lie?
You voted someone by sheeping another person who you thought was town. Nice scum hunting skillz. Also, scum now knows that you town read iron. Good job, you just handed them the game. /sarcasmI'm voting someone. Are you reading the tracer/thor slot as town? Why not talk about that if you have issue with my scum hunting?
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More sarcasm. Afraid to take a real stance against my points now, so you have to resort to joking and sarcasm. You can't afford to get caught up in more lies, so don't say a single thing in a serious manner. I got you figured out.
Funny. What happened to my "personal vendetta?" Guess that argument of yours was BS after all lmfao.[/quote]I don't think sharing town reads is pro-town. That is my stance, period. That doesn't mean I am not scum hunting, quit trying to put lies into my mouth. That is what scum does. You are quickly eroding the bias-town read I had of you and turning it into a malicious-scum read.
What? Are you now trying to argue that because of being bias against me, you couldn't have rolled scum? how exactly does your personal bias interact with the moderators role & alignment selection process?
It doesn't. You are making an idiotic argument. You are bias, and you might be scum or town, doesn't change that fact.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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EBWODP
When I said you memorized the whole scumteam, this was your response:In post 416, Saru wrote: Can you flail a little less? Thanks. Point to a post where I said I was reading old games of you? I've not read a single old game of yours. Everything I've been saying when it comes to past things is in reference to 1800, if you haven't noticed, since that's the only game we've played together. So you're either lying or you're so scared to be lynched that you're just typing without thinking. Either way, you're scum.
You need to learn how to read properly. Go look at what that "archives" point was responding to.
"Guess what buddy, there are things called archives. You can go back and read games from the past, surprise, I know!"
So were you lying then when you implied that you went back to read the game (which means I was right on the money, you did memorize the scum team), or are you lying now, saying you have not read a single old game of mine? Which one is a lie?
More sarcasm. Afraid to take a real stance against my points now, so you have to resort to joking and sarcasm. You can't afford to get caught up in more lies, so don't say a single thing in a serious manner. I got you figured out.In post 416, Saru wrote:
You voted someone by sheeping another person who you thought was town. Nice scum hunting skillz. Also, scum now knows that you town read iron. Good job, you just handed them the game. /sarcasmI'm voting someone. Are you reading the tracer/thor slot as town? Why not talk about that if you have issue with my scum hunting?
What? Are you now trying to argue that because of being bias against me, you couldn't have rolled scum? how exactly does your personal bias interact with the moderators role & alignment selection process?In post 416, Saru wrote:
Funny. What happened to my "personal vendetta?" Guess that argument of yours was BS after all lmfao.I don't think sharing town reads is pro-town. That is my stance, period. That doesn't mean I am not scum hunting, quit trying to put lies into my mouth. That is what scum does. You are quickly eroding the bias-town read I had of you and turning it into a malicious-scum read.
It doesn't. You are making an idiotic argument. You are bias, and you might be scum or town, doesn't change that fact.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Let me explain it to you like you are five.In post 417, Saru wrote:
A positive how?In post 414, karnos wrote:In the case of voting you and following iron's lead it was a clear case, at least to me, where sharing my town read of him was overall a positive.
Karnos votes Thor.
Someone asks why.
Karnos says "no reason".
Karnos gets lynched, Karnos flips town.
That is a net negative, in any measure. You can try to twist my words around as much as you want, as long as the town players are smart enough to see through your misrepresentation I don't think I have anything to worry about.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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In post 423, Saru wrote: wtf? So then you disproved yourself in regards to your stance of never sharing town readsThat hasneverbeen my stance and you know it.
This repeated obviously intentional misrepresentation can only be scum motivated, you aren't that stupid to play like this as town.
VOTE: Saru-
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In post 426, Thor665 wrote:
That's not what I say in 402 - in 402 what I do is say that there is hypocrisy in claiming and sheeping a townread while not chasing your own scumreads considering your stated meta. You could have voted any of a theory claimed townread's scum reads and my case would be just as valid.In post 413, karnos wrote:402 "Explains the vote he is making via claiming a townread on Iron, then tosses out that townread discussion gak. Yeah, right."
In 402 you said you find me scummy because of 1- voting you, 2- because of my philosophy on sharing town reads.
If it doesn't make me scummy, then why is it your stated case on me? Are you saying you don't find me scummy, but you are voting me anyway? Is that an accidental scum claim?
You are Saru both seem to have a major reading comprehension problem.
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."
You read my post above and still believe sharing a single town read for a reason is inconsistent with it, you are scum. Saru is your partner. No other explanation.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Nope. You aren't this dumb to misunderstand things so badly as town, you are scum trying to misrepresent me.In post 429, Thor665 wrote:The point of the hypocrisy is - your concept of hiding town reads is to protect them from scum.
Nothing is going to prevent scum from getting a night kill except a lucky doc. That isn't the goal of not sharing town reads. The idea is that if the town, overall has a general "obv town" guy and a "maybe kinda scummy but i think he is town" guy, that gives scum the easy path to victory of killing the obv town and leaving the sorta scummy town guys who are much more likely to be night killed.
By sharing a single read, I tell scum basically nothing to help them in the above. Sure, they know I think iron is town, but they don't know if I might have other even townier town reads, or less towny reads. They are still in the dark.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Saru, you said "your stance of never sharing town reads"In post 430, Saru wrote:
Or you seem to have a consistency and hypocrisy problem. The quote that you bolded has 0 to do with you sheeping Iron because you town read him.In post 428, karnos wrote:You are Saru both seem to have a major reading comprehension problem.
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."
You read my post above and still believe sharing a single town read for a reason is inconsistent with it, you are scum. Saru is your partner. No other explanation.
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
You weren't speaking up about a town player being wagoned, so this has nothing to do with what Thor and I are talking about.
"And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."
And there was no need to share your read on Iron today because the game hasn't progressed yet. It's still D1, so why do it if it's anti-town? You literally just claimed to be anti-town.
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."
That is what my stance actually was, and still is. Notice how I said I would speak up in some cases, and reveal town reads as the game progresses? That is the opposite of "never sharing town reads".
Simply put, I caught you in a lie and now you are trying to move the goal posts and change the subject. Nice try scum. Enjoy your rope.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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In post 433, Saru wrote:
You said:
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
But the situation your ass was caught in was sheeping Iron, who you gave a town read to. Iron wasn't being wagoned, so he didn't have to be revealed to be a town read by you. So you aren't even consistent in your own stance.
If Iron was being wagoned and you said "Nah guys chill, he's town and I town read him" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's not what happened. Your scum. kthxbai.Spoiler: saru logic
Now back to reality, you aren't a liar because you did something you didn't say you would do. You are a liar if you do something you said you wouldn't do.
If I had said something like "I will never share a single scum read". then you might have a valid point.
If.
But if I didn't say that? (Hint: I didn't). Your argument is bullshit.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Why is it that you suddenly think any counter wagon is a buddy protecting me, when it is equally likely to be a counter wagon protecting Thor?In post 448, Lowell wrote: There's enough people at various times trying to passive-aggressively derail this karnos wagon that it's probably right. At least some of them must be protecting a buddy.
VOTE: karnos
Also: why do you think a counter wagon could be a buddy protecting scum, but you don't think the Thor/Saru tag-team against me could be scum buddies?
Do you have a reason to think I am scum outside of these circumstantial stretches?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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[quote="In post 449If the town is 100% set on lynching karnos I'll help out but like I think knight is just coming off terrible here and I can't leave that alone.[/quote]
Town isn't. It's a scum pushed wagon, I guarantee it. If I do get lynched, flip Saru tomorrow.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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I think he is probably town still. I saw his vote on me as sort of a reaction test, and/or trying to figure out where the wagon on me was going. I don't see why he would switch votes as scum.In post 455, Thor665 wrote:@Karnos - what is your read on Iro as currently stands with his vote and read hopping around your wagon? Answered on the presumption you are town, natch
I doubt he accurately guessed the entire scum team, but I see why he listed the three he did. IMO if you and Saru are scum, the 3rd scum is probably staying far away from my wagon because of risk of being all caught by association is too high. There is also a fair chance that between you and Saru one is actually town just being taken advantage of by the scum, but I'm fairly confident that at least one of you is scum-
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I switched to Saru because his misrepresentations stink of scum to me, and puts him in the #1 scum slot in my reads. Thor is still my second pick , and I'll probably switch back to voting him if it comes down to deadline without a viable Saru lynch.In post 461, PenguinPower wrote: I don't find you scummy, so I'm not voting for you. Others were, and now they are hopping off. I would like to hear why as the answers provided thus far were not very informative.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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Was re-reading a bit, this stuck out to me.
Are you claiming you have never seen a town flail?In post 435, Thor665 wrote: Not seeing it, this feels like flail, sticking to my take.
TBH, the term "flail" is highly abused and doesn't really have a strict definition, so I don't agree in it's usage to describe my behavior, but even if you think I am flailing does that somehow make me more likely to be scum?-
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He got no reaction at all, afaik. If he was expecting a certain reaction from me as scum and didn't get it, then that would be a reason to unvote.In post 460, Thor665 wrote:
I could easily see him switching votes as scum, I find it less likely that he would do what he did if you weren't a buddy though, i;ll agree with that.In post 456, karnos wrote:I think he is probably town still. I saw his vote on me as sort of a reaction test, and/or trying to figure out where the wagon on me was going. I don't see why he would switch votes as scum.
How do you think he reaction tested anything though?-
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I said "I doubt he accurately guessed the entire scum team", I don't see how I was unclear at all. Why are you having trouble reading my posts?In post 460, Thor665 wrote: I will agree that it makes perfect sense, if town reading you, to think one of those three is scum.
Calling all three the scumteam though is nonsensical, and I think you realize that but aren't saying it clearly for some reason.-
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Yes, you are being very specifically wrong.In post 467, Thor665 wrote: It's not like Saru nor I are flailing all over you - we're being very specific, and you can't handle that. Hence the flail. Hence the scum read.
Correct me if I am wrong: your assertion is that I am scum because I said I would never share a single town read, after claiming to have a town read on iron.
The problem being, I NEVER said that I wouldn't share a single town read. I specifically said that sharing all information was anti-town, but then I gave several examples of exceptions to that. I actually didn't think it would be necessary to spell out an exception in something I was already doing, but I guess scum can be pedantic and their arguments.-
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So what? It's still the correct play to lynch your top scum reads, even if it's unlikely they are all scum.In post 469, Thor665 wrote:Do you think he would honestly expect 100% of the scum team to gang jump on a single player?
You know that's weird reasoning.
Picking randomly, you are about 23% likely to find scum in this game.
Picked from a pool of 3, in which 2 are scum, you are 66% likely to hit scum. Even if he (and I, as I share similar reads on you and Saru) are way off and only one of the 3 are actually scum, that is still a 33% chance of hitting scum, significantly above the average.-
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Why?In post 521, PenguinPower wrote:Oh. I wish you hadn't done that.-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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And I was just thinking he would be a good alternative lynch.
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What you are missing is that I said I didn't want to reveal ALL town reads. Revealing one town read is not revealing all town reads. Revealing two town reads is not revealing ALL town reads.In post 480, Thor665 wrote:
So what is the logic of this exception to your rule?In post 470, karnos wrote:The problem being, I NEVER said that I wouldn't share a single town read. I specifically said that sharing all information was anti-town, but then I gave several examples of exceptions to that. I actually didn't think it would be necessary to spell out an exception in something I was already doing, but I guess scum can be pedantic and their arguments.
It's okay to call out a town read to sheep him on a slot that you maybe sorta scumread?
Explain how that logic works within your reasoning to not reveal townreads - because I am missing it.
Are you really all hung up on this because you don't know the difference between "any" & "all"?-
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karnos Mafia Scum
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If you actually read through my ISO, you wouldn't be asking such questions.In post 537, Thor665 wrote:So it's okay to reveal any number of townreads - allowing scum to know who people townread - as long as you don't reveal 'all' town reads, because this will not allow them to know who people townread?
In post 340, karnos wrote:I don't see the need to announce who my "conf town" are, as all it does is give them a list of good nightkill targets. If someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town.In post 388, karnos wrote:There are varying levels: "confirmed town, obvious town, probably town, nullish town, etc. If, for the sake of argument, I was being globally read as obvious town, and of course scum knows I am town, they might use that information to nightkill me because they know I would be hard to get a miss lynch on. OTOH if I am largely read as scum, null, or at best nullish town, that tells scum that they can let me live and try to get me killed through a lynch. But if you don't give out town reads as specific as that, all the scum really gets is that X people scum read karnos, no idea about the rest... they have less information.In post 404, karnos wrote:Scum already know who is town! They start with perfect information on that, they don't need to analyze posts as much as town. town are trying to figure out who is scum, and in that process develop some useful town reads. But when it comes time to pick a night kill, scum love nothing mroe than nice organized lists that they can look at and compare to figure out the best kill target.In post 431, karnos wrote:Nothing is going to prevent scum from getting a night kill except a lucky doc. That isn't the goal of not sharing town reads. The idea is that if the town, overall has a general "obv town" guy and a "maybe kinda scummy but i think he is town" guy, that gives scum the easy path to victory of killing the obv town and leaving the sorta scummy town guys who are much more likely to be night killed.
By sharing a single read, I tell scum basically nothing to help them in the above. Sure, they know I think iron is town, but they don't know if I might have other even townier town reads, or less towny reads. They are still in the dark.
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