Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

[Foxbird]

Votecount 1.13

AlpacaAlpaca

(1) - malpascp

Thor665

(3) - cmitc1, karnos, Knighty Knight

LmkGuy

(1) - Lowell

Lowell

(1) - PenguinPower

karnos

(4) - Nero Cain, Saru, Thor665, ironstove

PenguinPower

(1) - aronagrundy

Knighty Knight

(1) - LmkGuy

Not Voting

(1) - AlpacaAlpaca

With

13

players eligible to vote, it’s

7

to lynch!

Day 1 will end in

(expired on 2016-10-24 15:08:49).

Mod Notes:

PenguinPower is V/LA until October 17th.

[Thor665]

402 "Explains the vote he is making via claiming a townread on Iron, then tosses out that townread discussion gak. Yeah, right."

In 402 you said you find me scummy because of 1- voting you, 2- because of my philosophy on sharing town reads.

If it doesn't make me scummy, then why is it your stated case on me? Are you saying you don't find me scummy, but you are voting me anyway? Is that an accidental scum claim?

That's not what I say in 402 - in 402 what I do is say that there is hypocrisy in claiming and sheeping a townread while not chasing your own scumreads considering your stated meta. You could have voted any of a theory claimed townread's scum reads and my case would be just as valid.

And, since you don't understand sarcasm, actually it was a Daycop claim, and I checked you.

@Iro - why the direct dodge of my question about your case on me followed by sheeping onto the wagon I'm currently supporting?

What question are you talking about?

This question;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8427748
And, while we're at it, now also the question in post 412, but maybe you need to see the other question to fully answer it?

[karnos]

wtf? So then you disproved yourself in regards to your stance of never sharing town reads

That has

never

been my stance and you know it.

This repeated obviously intentional misrepresentation can only be scum motivated, you aren't that stupid to play like this as town.

VOTE: Saru

[karnos]

402 "Explains the vote he is making via claiming a townread on Iron, then tosses out that townread discussion gak. Yeah, right."

In 402 you said you find me scummy because of 1- voting you, 2- because of my philosophy on sharing town reads.

If it doesn't make me scummy, then why is it your stated case on me? Are you saying you don't find me scummy, but you are voting me anyway? Is that an accidental scum claim?

That's not what I say in 402 - in 402 what I do is say that there is hypocrisy in claiming and sheeping a townread while not chasing your own scumreads considering your stated meta. You could have voted any of a theory claimed townread's scum reads and my case would be just as valid.

You are Saru both seem to have a major reading comprehension problem.

"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."

You read my post above and still believe sharing a single town read for a reason is inconsistent with it, you are scum. Saru is your partner. No other explanation.

[Thor665]

The point of the hypocrisy is - your concept of hiding town reads is to protect them from scum.
There was literally no need in any way at all to state Iro as a town read if this is your belief.
You could have just said you agreed with his case, you could have said that you found my slot scummy for any sort of reason. Heck, you could have just attacked your own scumread (that I'm not even sure was or was not me, since you've been so obtuse about your reads).
Instead you outed a town read as an excuse for a scummy vote move.
Looks defensive, hypocritical, and not in line with your stated concept of how to play as town - thus it is worthy of a vote, and a lynch also.

[Saru]

You are Saru both seem to have a major reading comprehension problem.

"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."

You read my post above and still believe sharing a single town read for a reason is inconsistent with it, you are scum. Saru is your partner. No other explanation.

Or you seem to have a consistency and hypocrisy problem. The quote that you bolded has 0 to do with you sheeping Iron because you town read him.

"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
You weren't speaking up about a town player being wagoned, so this has nothing to do with what Thor and I are talking about.

"And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."
And there was no need to share your read on Iron today because the game hasn't progressed yet. It's still D1, so why do it if it's anti-town? You literally just claimed to be anti-town.

[karnos]

The point of the hypocrisy is - your concept of hiding town reads is to protect them from scum.

Nope. You aren't this dumb to misunderstand things so badly as town, you are scum trying to misrepresent me.

Nothing is going to prevent scum from getting a night kill except a lucky doc. That isn't the goal of not sharing town reads. The idea is that if the town, overall has a general "obv town" guy and a "maybe kinda scummy but i think he is town" guy, that gives scum the easy path to victory of killing the obv town and leaving the sorta scummy town guys who are much more likely to be night killed.

By sharing a single read, I tell scum basically nothing to help them in the above. Sure, they know I think iron is town, but they don't know if I might have other even townier town reads, or less towny reads. They are still in the dark.

[karnos]

You are Saru both seem to have a major reading comprehension problem.

"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."

You read my post above and still believe sharing a single town read for a reason is inconsistent with it, you are scum. Saru is your partner. No other explanation.

Or you seem to have a consistency and hypocrisy problem. The quote that you bolded has 0 to do with you sheeping Iron because you town read him.

"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
You weren't speaking up about a town player being wagoned, so this has nothing to do with what Thor and I are talking about.

"And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."
And there was no need to share your read on Iron today because the game hasn't progressed yet. It's still D1, so why do it if it's anti-town? You literally just claimed to be anti-town.

Saru, you said "your stance of never sharing town reads"

"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up. And when the game progresses it'll be nice to compare reads to find the final scum by PoE, but my general philosophy is that sharing all information at all times is anti-town."

That is what my stance actually was, and still is. Notice how I said I would speak up in some cases, and reveal town reads as the game progresses? That is the opposite of "never sharing town reads".

Simply put, I caught you in a lie and now you are trying to move the goal posts and change the subject. Nice try scum. Enjoy your rope.

[Saru]

That is what my stance actually was, and still is. Notice how I said I would speak up in some cases, and reveal town reads as the game progresses? That is the opposite of "never sharing town reads".

Simply put, I caught you in a lie and now you are trying to move the goal posts and change the subject. Nice try scum. Enjoy your rope.

Yup, you just confirmed to me your scum.

You said:
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
But the situation your ass was caught in was sheeping Iron, who you gave a town read to. Iron wasn't being wagoned, so he didn't have to be revealed to be a town read by you. So you aren't even consistent in your own stance.

If Iron was being wagoned and you said "Nah guys chill, he's town and I town read him" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's not what happened. Your scum. kthxbai.

[karnos]

You said:
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
But the situation your ass was caught in was sheeping Iron, who you gave a town read to. Iron wasn't being wagoned, so he didn't have to be revealed to be a town read by you. So you aren't even consistent in your own stance.

If Iron was being wagoned and you said "Nah guys chill, he's town and I town read him" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's not what happened. Your scum. kthxbai.

Spoiler: saru logic

Saru, you never said you would use meta arguments against me, and then you used one against me at the beginning of the game! That means you are scum!

/saru logic

Now back to reality, you aren't a liar because you did something you didn't say you would do. You are a liar if you do something you said you wouldn't do.

If I had said something like "I will never share a single scum read". then you might have a valid point.

If.

But if I didn't say that? (Hint: I didn't). Your argument is bullshit.

[Thor665]

The point of the hypocrisy is - your concept of hiding town reads is to protect them from scum.

Nope. You aren't this dumb to misunderstand things so badly as town, you are scum trying to misrepresent me.

Nothing is going to prevent scum from getting a night kill except a lucky doc. That isn't the goal of not sharing town reads. The idea is that if the town, overall has a general "obv town" guy and a "maybe kinda scummy but i think he is town" guy, that gives scum the easy path to victory of killing the obv town and leaving the sorta scummy town guys who are much more likely to be night killed.

By sharing a single read, I tell scum basically nothing to help them in the above. Sure, they know I think iron is town, but they don't know if I might have other even townier town reads, or less towny reads. They are still in the dark.

Not seeing it, this feels like flail, sticking to my take.

[Saru]

You said:
"if someone was getting wagoned hard and I thought they were town, I'd speak up."
But the situation your ass was caught in was sheeping Iron, who you gave a town read to. Iron wasn't being wagoned, so he didn't have to be revealed to be a town read by you. So you aren't even consistent in your own stance.

If Iron was being wagoned and you said "Nah guys chill, he's town and I town read him" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's not what happened. Your scum. kthxbai.

Spoiler: saru logic

Saru, you never said you would use meta arguments against me, and then you used one against me at the beginning of the game! That means you are scum!

/saru logic

Now back to reality, you aren't a liar because you did something you didn't say you would do. You are a liar if you do something you said you wouldn't do.

If I had said something like "I will never share a single scum read". then you might have a valid point.

If.

But if I didn't say that? (Hint: I didn't). Your argument is bullshit.

That's not at all my logic here, but, man, you're flailing hard, I see.

You said you didn't want to give town reads because it would give scum a road map to victory. If this is true, you had no reason to state that you town read Iron just because you wanted to vote Thor/Tracer. You could have said anything along the lines of "Tracer just feels scummy" or "Iron makes good points about her." Instead, you did that which you apparently hate doing, when you didn't need to do it at all. Which also shows you don't actually believe what you yourself are saying about town reads. You're fine with giving them when it fits your scum agenda.

[aronagrundy]

Well I still think pp is getting away with way too much but karnos being overly defensive (which is why i voted pp in the first place) in addition to the whole townread debacle give me more than enough reasons to join the wagon.

VOTE: karnos

[aronagrundy]

btw pp when you return I would love a response to my original vote on you

[ironstove]

VOTE: Thor[/v]

[ironstove]

VOTE: Thor

[ironstove]

{Thor, Saru, Aronagrundy}

Making this post here as a future placeholder.

[aronagrundy]

What changed your mind on Karnos?

[karnos]

Saru and Thor have the same avatar drawn in different styles.

/Irrelevant but observations.

[Saru]

You have Thor's hammer in your avatar.

It's a conspiracy.

[Knighty Knight]

Alright, so 90% of this arguing is complete bs and not a whole lot is starting to happen. So in an effort to get something rolling I am going to vote Karnos then Lmk after because he is pushing me for "defending myself". Sorry for defending myself, probably the stupidest argument in this game up until this point. At this point we are all having a hard time agreeing on one thing, so maybe we can see who karnos really is, and maybe not, who knows.

VOTE: Karnos

after it's gonna be LmK for shitty arguments against me.

[aronagrundy]

knight this is what lmk said about you (bolded):

From the people that have been active during those pages, I can see why there are current scum reads on knight and Karnos. Both players have gotten extremely defensive whenever they have been pushed,

For knight, post 326 screams newb scum to me. Trying to say 'look at me! I'm doing stuff!'. After reading this post and going through his ISO, I just get a feeling of fakeness from his posts. Now I get that I am really not one to talk right now, but they try to seem like they are actively contributing, but there is just something off about his posts. I remember when I got my first game as scum and a lot of his posts are the same kinds of thoughts/posts that I made during that scum game. A lot of his reads contain words like 'maybe' or his opinion can be easily swayed either way, leaving options open for changing his scum/town reads as he needs.

Where in the bolded section does he describe you defending yourself as scummy?

Also, why karnos? You don't say a word about him before this post beyond a null read early in the game. If 90% of the arguing is bs then why are you siding with two of the people doing the arguing?

This post sticks out like a sore thumb to me compared to anything else I've seen before in the game. No real reason for voting karnos plus misrepresenting what lmk said.

VOTE: knight
VOTE: knight

[aronagrundy]

lol ok only one of those votes should be there clearly

[Lowell]

Lmk and knighty are attacking each other for doing the exact same thing. My work here is done.

Also there's some major derailing going on from aron. 381 is the post that catches your eye several pages later? Why? It's... fine, I guess? But it causes you to change the vote you just made? (presumably also after having seen epic post 381)

There's enough people at various times trying to passive-aggressively derail this karnos wagon that it's probably right. At least some of them must be protecting a buddy.

VOTE: karnos

[aronagrundy]

No it's just the last post lmk made. knight basically tossing out an OMGUS vote prompted me to go back and look at lmk's posts and 381 was the last one he made (and was the one that knight was responding to anyway). It was knight's post that made me change my vote.

I like the karnos wagon but I feel like knight's hop on the wagon is even worse. When he says he'll go after lmk tomorrow (this is all assuming a karnos lynch here) he's giving himself an excuse to post irrelevant content (if karnos flips town) or just jump on the lmk wagon (if karnos flips scum). If the town is 100% set on lynching karnos I'll help out but like I think knight is just coming off terrible here and I can't leave that alone.