Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

[Nero Cain]

vote:LMKguy

[Foxbird]

Votecount 1.14

AlpacaAlpaca

(1) - malpascp

Thor665

(2) - cmitc1, ironstove

Lowell

(1) - PenguinPower

karnos

(4) - Saru, Thor665, Knighty Knight, Lowell

Knighty Knight

(2) - LmkGuy, aronagrundy

LmkGuy

(1) - Nero Cain

Saru

(1) - karnos

Not Voting

(1) - AlpacaAlpaca

With

13

players eligible to vote, it’s

7

to lynch!

Day 1 will end in

(expired on 2016-10-24 15:08:49).

Mod Notes:

None!

[karnos]

There's enough people at various times trying to passive-aggressively derail this karnos wagon that it's probably right. At least some of them must be protecting a buddy.

VOTE: karnos

Why is it that you suddenly think any counter wagon is a buddy protecting me, when it is equally likely to be a counter wagon protecting Thor?

Also: why do you think a counter wagon could be a buddy protecting scum, but you don't think the Thor/Saru tag-team against me could be scum buddies?

Do you have a reason to think I am scum outside of these circumstantial stretches?

[karnos]

[quote="In post 449If the town is 100% set on lynching karnos I'll help out but like I think knight is just coming off terrible here and I can't leave that alone.[/quote]


Town isn't. It's a scum pushed wagon, I guarantee it. If I do get lynched, flip Saru tomorrow.

[Thor665]

{Thor, Saru, Aronagrundy}

Making this post here as a future placeholder.

I note that you yet again duck my question to you, and then you flip from voting Karnos to calling the people voting Karnos the entire scum team.
I'll ask what the hell is going on - I expect no answer because you've shown no inclination to explain anything when asked.

[Thor665]

@Karnos - what is your read on Iro as currently stands with his vote and read hopping around your wagon? Answered on the presumption you are town, natch

[karnos]

@Karnos - what is your read on Iro as currently stands with his vote and read hopping around your wagon? Answered on the presumption you are town, natch

I think he is probably town still. I saw his vote on me as sort of a reaction test, and/or trying to figure out where the wagon on me was going. I don't see why he would switch votes as scum.

I doubt he accurately guessed the entire scum team, but I see why he listed the three he did. IMO if you and Saru are scum, the 3rd scum is probably staying far away from my wagon because of risk of being all caught by association is too high. There is also a fair chance that between you and Saru one is actually town just being taken advantage of by the scum, but I'm fairly confident that at least one of you is scum

[karnos]

@Mod I'm actually voting Saru. From

427

[Foxbird]

@Mod I'm actually voting Saru. From

427

Fixed!

[PenguinPower]

Karnos coming off as mafia in the last page + this page.

How so?

Well I still think pp is getting away with way too much but karnos being overly defensive (which is why i voted pp in the first place) in addition to the whole townread debacle give me more than enough reasons to join the wagon.

VOTE: karnos

Why do you think he's being overly defensive. It looks to me like Thor/Saru are going after him pretty hard and he's responding.

btw pp when you return I would love a response to my original vote on you

It was weak.

Alright, so 90% of this arguing is complete bs and not a whole lot is starting to happen. So in an effort to get something rolling I am going to vote Karnos then Lmk after because he is pushing me for "defending myself". Sorry for defending myself, probably the stupidest argument in this game up until this point. At this point we are all having a hard time agreeing on one thing, so maybe we can see who karnos really is, and maybe not, who knows.

VOTE: Karnos

after it's gonna be LmK for shitty arguments against me.

Seems like scum trying to get an easy mislynch. "Who knows, let's give it a shot!"

There's enough people at various times trying to passive-aggressively derail this karnos wagon that it's probably right.

Could you point to some examples of that?

I'm not sure I'm understanding the disappearance of the Tracer/Thor wagon at this point. He hasn't been particularly townie.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Knighty Knight

[Thor665]

I think he is probably town still. I saw his vote on me as sort of a reaction test, and/or trying to figure out where the wagon on me was going. I don't see why he would switch votes as scum.

I could easily see him switching votes as scum, I find it less likely that he would do what he did if you weren't a buddy though, i;ll agree with that.
How do you think he reaction tested anything though?

I doubt he accurately guessed the entire scum team, but I see why he listed the three he did. IMO if you and Saru are scum, the 3rd scum is probably staying far away from my wagon because of risk of being all caught by association is too high. There is also a fair chance that between you and Saru one is actually town just being taken advantage of by the scum, but I'm fairly confident that at least one of you is scum

I will agree that it makes perfect sense, if town reading you, to think one of those three is scum.
Calling all three the scumteam though is nonsensical, and I think you realize that but aren't saying it clearly for some reason.

Why do you think he's being overly defensive. It looks to me like Thor/Saru are going after him pretty hard and he's responding.

I'll actually agree that it isn't over defensive (or, rather, it is defensive - and it's impossible to be over defensive) but I do think it represents flail.
I'll happily agree he's under pressure, but are you reading his answers and defenses?
Could you justify his town read vote concept paired with his not revealing town reads? It's a concept that both Saru and I have clearly noted as lacking logic and that Karnos has pointedly ducked responding to - that doesn't ping you at all?

I'm not sure I'm understanding the disappearance of the Tracer/Thor wagon at this point. He hasn't been particularly townie.

You're not voting me either - I probably agree that I haven't done anything particularly townie (or at least not easily fakeable) but what have I done that is actually scummy? Or my predecessor for that matter? I know Iro is hard avoiding defending the weak case and leaving his vote there for too long, but why are you excited to dig at me? Do you still see value in the old case (if so what value?) or do you see me doing scummy things?

I would note that the wagon on Tracer existed due to lurk.
Since I'm clearly not lurking - doesn't it make sense that the wagon is dying? Why wouldn't it?

[PenguinPower]

I'll actually agree that it isn't over defensive (or, rather, it is defensive - and it's impossible to be over defensive) but I do think it represents flail.
I'll happily agree he's under pressure, but are you reading his answers and defenses?
Could you justify his town read vote concept paired with his not revealing town reads? It's a concept that both Saru and I have clearly noted as lacking logic and that Karnos has pointedly ducked responding to - that doesn't ping you at all?

Not saying that his answers don't appear scummy to me. My problem is that I

always

read karnos as scum. He also happens to always be scum in my town games. I guess I'm having a logic breakdown and want to hear the cases for voting him from those on his wagon.

You're not voting me either - I probably agree that I haven't done anything particularly townie (or at least not easily fakeable) but what have I done that is actually scummy? Or my predecessor for that matter? I know Iro is hard avoiding defending the weak case and leaving his vote there for too long, but why are you excited to dig at me? Do you still see value in the old case (if so what value?) or do you see me doing scummy things?

I would note that the wagon on Tracer existed due to lurk.
Since I'm clearly not lurking - doesn't it make sense that the wagon is dying? Why wouldn't it?

I don't find you scummy, so I'm not voting for you. Others were, and now they are hopping off. I would like to hear why as the answers provided thus far were not very informative.

[Thor665]

Not saying that his answers don't appear scummy to me. My problem is that I

always

read karnos as scum. He also happens to always be scum in my town games. I guess I'm having a logic breakdown and want to hear the cases for voting him from those on his wagon.

Do you mean other than me and Saru?
Also, if you always read him as scum, and he has always been scum - I don't see why you're gunshy.

I don't find you scummy, so I'm not voting for you. Others were, and now they are hopping off. I would like to hear why as the answers provided thus far were not very informative.

[PenguinPower]

Do you mean other than me and Saru?
Also, if you always read him as scum, and he has always been scum - I don't see why you're gunshy.

Yes.

Because it's not logical and is purely emotion based.

[karnos]

I don't find you scummy, so I'm not voting for you. Others were, and now they are hopping off. I would like to hear why as the answers provided thus far were not very informative.

I switched to Saru because his misrepresentations stink of scum to me, and puts him in the #1 scum slot in my reads. Thor is still my second pick , and I'll probably switch back to voting him if it comes down to deadline without a viable Saru lynch.

[karnos]

Was re-reading a bit, this stuck out to me.

Not seeing it, this feels like flail, sticking to my take.

Are you claiming you have never seen a town flail?

TBH, the term "flail" is highly abused and doesn't really have a strict definition, so I don't agree in it's usage to describe my behavior, but even if you think I am flailing does that somehow make me more likely to be scum?

[karnos]

I think he is probably town still. I saw his vote on me as sort of a reaction test, and/or trying to figure out where the wagon on me was going. I don't see why he would switch votes as scum.

I could easily see him switching votes as scum, I find it less likely that he would do what he did if you weren't a buddy though, i;ll agree with that.
How do you think he reaction tested anything though?

He got no reaction at all, afaik. If he was expecting a certain reaction from me as scum and didn't get it, then that would be a reason to unvote.

[Thor665]

Because it's not logical and is purely emotion based.

Emotion or not, it appears to be accurate. So why auto distrust it?
I've seen you cite gut before, so...?

Are you claiming you have never seen a town flail?

I am not.
I would claim that I see scum flail in a percentage disproportionate to their actual ratio.

TBH, the term "flail" is highly abused and doesn't really have a strict definition, so I don't agree in it's usage to describe my behavior, but even if you think I am flailing does that somehow make me more likely to be scum?

Because even when town holds crazy beliefs, they actually tend to believe them, and are more willing to explain them, rather than lashing around trying to deflect, obscure with muddy logic, and to OMGUS repeatedly.
It's not like Saru nor I are flailing all over you - we're being very specific, and you can't handle that. Hence the flail. Hence the scum read.

He got no reaction at all, afaik. If he was expecting a certain reaction from me as scum and didn't get it, then that would be a reason to unvote.

He did get a reaction from me - questioning the motive of his vote.
He voted me over it while ducking the question.
Town read for you?
You seem like you have a blind spot for his slot, yeah?

[karnos]

I will agree that it makes perfect sense, if town reading you, to think one of those three is scum.
Calling all three the scumteam though is nonsensical, and I think you realize that but aren't saying it clearly for some reason.

I said "I doubt he accurately guessed the entire scum team", I don't see how I was unclear at all. Why are you having trouble reading my posts?

[Thor665]

Do you think he would honestly expect 100% of the scum team to gang jump on a single player?
You know that's weird reasoning.

[karnos]

It's not like Saru nor I are flailing all over you - we're being very specific, and you can't handle that. Hence the flail. Hence the scum read.

Yes, you are being very specifically wrong.

Correct me if I am wrong: your assertion is that I am scum because I said I would never share a single town read, after claiming to have a town read on iron.

The problem being, I NEVER said that I wouldn't share a single town read. I specifically said that sharing all information was anti-town, but then I gave several examples of exceptions to that. I actually didn't think it would be necessary to spell out an exception in something I was already doing, but I guess scum can be pedantic and their arguments.

[karnos]

Do you think he would honestly expect 100% of the scum team to gang jump on a single player?
You know that's weird reasoning.

So what? It's still the correct play to lynch your top scum reads, even if it's unlikely they are all scum.

Picking randomly, you are about 23% likely to find scum in this game.

Picked from a pool of 3, in which 2 are scum, you are 66% likely to hit scum. Even if he (and I, as I share similar reads on you and Saru) are way off and only one of the 3 are actually scum, that is still a 33% chance of hitting scum, significantly above the average.

[Saru]

The problem being, I NEVER said that I wouldn't share a single town read. I specifically said that sharing all information was anti-town, but then I gave several examples of exceptions to that. I actually didn't think it would be necessary to spell out an exception in something I was already doing, but I guess scum can be pedantic and their arguments.

Except what you did, didn't meet the exception you had laid out(340), and I've proven this already in 430. Unless you have more exceptions that you want to start making up on the spot? Be my guest.

If the Karnos wagon doesn't go through, the Knight wagon also isn't too shabby. I could excuse his reasons for voting Karnos(seeing as others had pretty much the same reasons), but the fact that he tries to lay the groundwork for a Lmk lynch tomorrow is troubling. Arona makes a good point here:

When he says he'll go after lmk tomorrow (this is all assuming a karnos lynch here) he's giving himself an excuse to post irrelevant content (if karnos flips town) or just jump on the lmk wagon (if karnos flips scum).

@Karnos: Not sure if I missed it, but what's your view on Knight?

[Saru]

So what? It's still the correct play to lynch your top scum reads, even if it's unlikely they are all scum.

You don't say?

[AlpacaAlpaca]

I am here and I will be active in a few hours once I write this midterm