Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

[ironstove]

I find it funny that karnos was voting for penguin when his top scum read, nero was also on the wagon lol. Very amusing.

[Nero Cain]

That aron would recruit both scum into the PT and even if he did, why them having day chat when they've already had day chat for pretty much the whole game should implicate that they're both scum. I'm not really seeing a reason behind that.

I think ita a perfectly sound explanation for why PP would want Karnos to be added.

On top of that, it's all hypothetical theory that can't be falsified or checked until after the game, so it seems like a waste of time to even discuss it let alone push for why X and Y are a scum team.

I don't see how its any different than a Nero is scum with X b/c he/they said/did this.

Karnos keeps saying he thinks nero is scum, but keeps driving the wagon off nero.

So are you saying that its a me + Karnos team? Do you think scumKarnos would be above attempting to manipulate you on my lynch? Whst do you think of my 1866?

Btw, nice job coming to your partner's defense.

good thing I'm not even defending him.

[Foxbird]

Votecount 4.20

PenguinPower

(3) - Saru, Lowell, Nero Cain

(L-2!)

Nero Cain

(3) - ironstove, bji, PenguinPower

(L-2!)

Not Voting

(2) - MathBlade, karnos

With

8

players eligible to vote, it’s

5

to lynch!

Day 4 will end in

(expired on 2016-11-30 07:11:29).

Mod Notes:

None!

[karnos]

I find it funny that karnos was voting for penguin when his top scum read, nero was also on the wagon lol. Very amusing.

does the term "busing" mean anything to you?

[karnos]

That aron would recruit both scum into the PT and even if he did, why them having day chat when they've already had day chat for pretty much the whole game should implicate that they're both scum. I'm not really seeing a reason behind that.

I think ita a perfectly sound explanation for why PP would want Karnos to be added.

Interesting theory. If PP and I were both scum, we could say whatever we wanted to say about what was said in the topic and no living player could argue it. In that case, why would penguin say that he asked for me to be added? Why would I collaborate his story?

Penguin might be scum, my recent case on Lowell isn't 100% conclusive, but obviously I know I am not scum and I think even from an outsider perspective the idea should look insane.

[Lowell]

prodge, weekends are bad. still would prefer penguin, but will catch up.

[karnos]

It's Monday! The weekend is over.

[Saru]

Also prodge. Also prefer Penguin, but wouldn't cry over Nero. Also ew mobile posting. This shit is annoying. Never again.

[PenguinPower]

Surely not Saru who said they were scum reading Nero.

So what team are you floating now?

No, I was. His list was backwards from everyone else's, but I see the qualifier following now.

[MathBlade]

Prod dodge. I prefer Penguin as I think Nero is town.

[PenguinPower]

prodge, weekends are bad. still would prefer penguin, but will catch up.

No you won't. You should probably replace out.

[PenguinPower]

Also prodge. Also prefer Penguin, but wouldn't cry over Nero. Also ew mobile posting. This shit is annoying. Never again.

You probably should to, but lurking is a valid scum tactic which you appear to be utilizing.

If you're town, replace out.

[MathBlade]

@mod: Requesting that anyone that doesn't make posts with content in 48 hours from this post be prodded. Prod dodge is not enough

I can think of a couple of reasons scum PP and you would but those are theories ATM. And they require a lot of coincidence. Not something I am considering ATM.

Probably Penguin and Lowell and Penguin is frustrated his buddy won't move his vote or make effort.

[PenguinPower]

Your tunnel vision will be the death of town. Ugh..I'm actually willing to do this. Sum up your case on me and I will respond as to why it's crap.

[bji]

Prod dodge. I prefer Penguin as I think Nero is town.

Penguin did a lot of work to avoid his lynch this weekend. The "someone please hammer me" dramatics could easily be fake, given that no one was going to jump ahead of Math and hammer anyone. I'm still more sold on the Nero lynch than the Penguin lynch though. Let me reiterate my case on Nero, so that it's very clear:

- He started a wagon on what turned out to be a bad mislynch and which I think could have been identified as a bad mislynch at the time
- He is the only one to have explicitly called Mal scum, everyone else recognized it as a policy lynch. To me this could easily be a slip, overplaying his hand.
- He started that wagon right after FA claimed. The chances that FA was going to be lynched after claiming were low, anyone could have seen that, and Nero's first vote after the FA claim was the start of the Mal mislynch wagon, "coincidentally" timed right when scum needed a better wagon than the FA wagon.
-

Spoiler: Thor/Nero interactions

Of what I've read? Saru, Karnos, and maybe Nero. I'd actually wager money Nero isn't empty regardless, I'm sure he's made multiple clear pushes.

Thor's first post, about who he considers "not empty", notice that for the rest of the game he is scum reading Karnos consistently and town reading Nero consistently. In one of his first posts he has already established the players that he is going to pay most attention to.

I agree with you on Nero town.

Like right now I am leaning invest Thor/Saru, Prot Nero/Ice, and killing any of the lurkers.

Make it a kill Karnos and drop Saru for PP or Grey and I'm good with this.

Asks for a Karnos kill and a PP/GreyIce investigate but leaves Nero/GreyIce as protect. I didn't notice the inconsistency here on first read but it is interesting. He's saying to both investigate and protect GreyIce is weird, investigating and protecting the same player makes no sense that I can think of, to me this means he never actually meant the protect or investigate of GreyIce, but he left Nero in as protect. Protecting someone you know is your scum buddy is a good plan because it takes protection away from town.

I am actively aware of Mal's activity elsewhere.
Mal wagon is fine and dandy - so is Nero.
Your cases are pretty soft - and I'm not sheeping you.

Thor explicitly calling Nero out as "fine and dandy". Nero is clearly Thor's strongest townread.

@PP That wasn't the right word. I mean I do think BJ is buddyng him but for you I kinda of hate

Then lynch that. If he's scum, good lynch. If he's town, he hurts town. Lynch it. Seriously, dude got me a scum win based off a rage vote. If he's not going to play - and not going to be replaced - lynch it.

like its really goading me into trying to lynch Iron regardless of alignment.

but you can help me remove doubt by voting for scum.

vote:BJ

Unvote: Karnos
Vote: bjj

I'mma sheep this without logic

Sheeps Nero again. This is twice that he sheeped Nero's vote without any justification given at the time.

I don't like the Nero wagon, not that that should shock anyone, but I want to be on record for it.

@bji: that post of FA's you're referring to was made before grey died. Honestly what were the odds from scum's perspective that FA would flip tracker?

Also pretty much everyone townread FA last time I checked so maybe they killed him because of that?

Seems like any discussion beyond that is only in scum's interest as it gives them more info for their NK, and anything we say today beyond Thor's lynch can wait until tomorrow can't it?

well unless something happens to the nk we lose a townie so isn't that reason enough to not lynch Thor right off?

And some people start posting sense - shock.

- Joined the Penguin wagon at L-1 with no previously expressed suspicion of Penguin. This was as good as a hammer because Math had already expressed intent to hammer Penguin
- Has lied repeatedly when attempting to defend himself from my case on him, look at my ISO and search for the word "lie", it's all clearly laid out. Note: one occurrence is in a spoiler tag post 1089 so a simple search won't find it.

[bji]

- Joined the Penguin wagon at L-1 with no previously expressed suspicion of Penguin. This was as good as a hammer because Math had already expressed intent to hammer Penguin

By the way I think this clearly indicates that { Penguin, Nero } is not the scum team. I don't see Nero essentially hammering Penguin when he had no case for him previously, there is no benefit for Nero to bus Penguin in this way.

If Nero flips scum then I think Penguin is off the hook.

[bji]

Also it appears that Math came to basically the same conclusion, with further supporting evidence from 1822:

"This means likely only one of Nero and Penguin is scum and the other is town. Of the two, ironstove is much more adamant that Nero is scum. Both Nero and Penguin attacked bji in the mid 1000s range. However Penguin was the one who was caught deliberately lying about the state of the policy lynch 1089 This would make bji the counter wagon for Thor and make him town."

Note that Math was wrong about Penguin being the one caught deliberately lying about the state of the policy lynch, it was Nero who did that, as has been established by further discussion.

[karnos]

Lowell:Nero:Penguin
Honorable mention: Saru

It hurts my head to keep trying to figure out which one is more scummy.

MathBlade if you want to hammer penguin I'll re-apply my vote, he isn't my first choice anymore but the information from the flip will be invaluable either way.

[PenguinPower]

It hurts my head to keep trying to figure out which one is more scummy.

Let me help you out a little. It's not me.

[ironstove]

prodge, weekends are bad. still would prefer penguin, but will catch up.

Also prodge. Also prefer Penguin, but wouldn't cry over Nero. Also ew mobile posting. This shit is annoying. Never again.

Jesus christ, both of you are little shits who need to change your vote instead of coming into the thread to dodge prods, HOLY FUCK.

VOTE: SARU

[ironstove]

HEY GUYS IMMA PRODGE AND I'M TOTALLY DOWN WITH VOTING NERO BUT LEMME JUST LEAVE MY VOTE SOMEWHERE ELSE AS I LEAVE FOR ANOTHER 2 DAYS UNTIL THE TIMER RUNS DOWN AND WE NL AGAIN.

[karnos]

VOTE: nero cain

[Foxbird]

@mod: Requesting that anyone that doesn't make posts with content in 48 hours from this post be prodded. Prod dodge is not enough

If three more players privately message me their approval, I will add this to the rules.

To reiterate: this is

not

a public vote. PM me.

[Nero Cain]

In that case, why would penguin say that he asked for me to be added? Why would I collaborate his story?

If PP had a solid town read on you for "tunneling Thor" why do you think he voted you at the beginning of the day?

[Nero Cain]

Probably Penguin and Lowell and Penguin is frustrated his buddy won't move his vote or make effort.

There is no way Karnos is town. That hammer on Thor was deff a bus. He's really who we should be voting for today but no one will do it.