I don't get if it's a joke or not. It doesn't make sense if it's seriousIn post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.
Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]
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noIn post 46, doomfeathers wrote:
Ah, but you did see something you thought was AI there or you wouldn't have asked, and since you asked without saying what you thought, I'm willing to bet it was scum-indicative.outoforder wrote:
I think, if you are town, you should probably stop leaping into conclusions since you have no possible way of knowing what i think of the post in the first place.In post 32, doomfeathers wrote:[quote="In post 11, [...]
The MooginSoosy post is pretty obviously not serious, so this post inclines me to think outoforder is overeager town if newbie. If alt, maybe not.
[...]
I mean, because in your opinion i should not assume the post was serious that means if i am an experienced player i must be mafia, right? Well fyi i have not said what i think of the post in the first place so your conclusion is invalid.
Gotcha.In post 39, outoforder wrote:No it is not an alt. I know hapahauli and Rels from another forum.
I don't know the metas for any other sites, unfortunately. Rels and hapahauli, do you think OOO's question about MooginSoosy was scummy? Unless the answer is "yes", I now have no reason to scumread OOO.-
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Where do you stand on OOO now ?In post 86, KidAmn wrote:
Any other comments to make? Anything at all to say about the last 4 pages?In post 85, Rels wrote:
I don't get if it's a joke or not. It doesn't make sense if it's seriousIn post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.-
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Well I agree with him on that. I don't know if it makes you town like he does, but you definitely missed his point. It's normal OOO doesn't want to give his explanation as long as I haven't given mine - he wants to see if I thought the same thing he did.In post 92, KidAmn wrote:
I think either you're not understanding or I'm not getting it across properly: the issue isn't the existence of the mini-game, it's that Ooo refused to clue anyone else in until it was "done with" or engage the people trying to get answers out of him.In post 87, hapahauli wrote:
I don't understand how that's separate. OoO's "mini-game" has everything to do with the fact that him, Rels, and I have played on other websites.In post 84, KidAmn wrote:
Literally my only comment on that interaction was to say it was a clusterfuck and should not continue (and yes, for some reason I mixed Creature in there because I had been quoting him above to snark at his early posting, and because Rels literally hasn't posted this game, so apologies to Creature). I then moved on to a completely separate point about Ooo's refusal to give his own opinions until people have played his little mini-game.hapahauli wrote:Not reading properly =/= mafia.
Reading something as a "clusterfuck", criticizing it as confusing/pointless, and then engaging in said clusterfuck is likely mafia. The story is inconsistent. Posting for the sake of posting, etc.
Given how determined he was/is to shit on me and dismiss anything I've said as "oh he's just stupid he isn't reading he doesn't know anything" I'm pretty happy with my vote.Rels wrote:
Where do you stand on OOO now ?In post 86, KidAmn wrote:
Any other comments to make? Anything at all to say about the last 4 pages?In post 85, Rels wrote:
I don't get if it's a joke or not. It doesn't make sense if it's seriousIn post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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TY. Seems like you're town thenIn post 99, doomfeathers wrote:
I've been scum one game and was lynched N1. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68559In post 91, Rels wrote:doomfeathers how good is your scumgame ?-
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So are you gonna start posting relevent stuff at some point ?In post 101, Creature wrote:Even if we decide to all arm at the same night to prevent scum from killing, it's still scumsided. So better arm when you feel like.-
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Cause your filter, ISO, whatever you're calling that here, is awful.
The "I don't like this guy but I won't explain why 'cause it's just an impression but actually it wasn't very serious". Weird way to start the game.
The "LOOK IM PARTICIPATING" comment that you're making on the setup / way to play. While you don't have posts that matter yet. It looks like scum trying to appear being active. "RVS shouldn't be stopped!" "We shoudln't all arm the same night!"
Then the rest of your posts are useless but I don't care about that, townies can make useless posts. I really don't like these two points thoughTL Mafia is best mafia-
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Why ? You can't find scum without having a town circle first ?In post 105, Creature wrote:When I get a couple of decent townreads I will.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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That's not the impression I got from your post:In post 71, hapahauli wrote:
What more of an explanation is there? I looked at the thread, saw a few votes on you, and thought "lel imma gonna vote him."In post 66, outoforder wrote:
Right. I also have 14 irl days to make a decision. Right now (as per my last post) his explanation is not satisfying at all.In post 64, doomfeathers wrote:
If hapahauli thought you were scum, and knew you don't respond to pressure as scum, why would he pressure you? By your logic, you should be scumreading him.outoforder wrote:doomfeathers does anything else stick out to you other than me atm?
That looks way more like pressure than "lol I'll join this wagon"In post 22, hapahauli wrote:
Why aren't you asking me about it?In post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.
VOTE: outoforderTL Mafia is best mafia-
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TBF you also look pretty bad there: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27374In post 108, Creature wrote:I find scum knowing where town is.
LOL this makes me think of your "MM WE SHOULD NOT ALL ARM THE SAME NIGHT" post though:
How the fuck can I find a scumgame of yours easily. This forum is hard to useIn post 43, Creature wrote:Funny, because as scum I try to look active but I end up lurking. As town it's like the opposite.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Well that is a pretty cool featureIn post 111, Creature wrote:I have a wiki, you know, it's in the bottom left of my post right next to PM.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Then why are you not questionning me on that ?In post 117, Aubrey wrote: I don't understand Reels odd interest in Doom's scum ability.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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I agree Hapa looks the worst in the game right now. It feels superficial.
The jump on rayn first, for which he changed his reasonning.
Then the thing on KidDamn, where he attacked him on something pretty weak and got convinced super easily, when Kiddamn just repeated things he's said before.
Finally this vote havingfitz. The vote in itself in not weird, havingfitz is definitely lackluster. But it's an easy vote. Like the things above.
I'm not seeing "obvious town" Hapa from last game. Though last game it took half of D1 for him to appear.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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So when you had this small sentence in this big post, you were expecting an answer from me ?In post 148, Aubrey wrote:If I say, "I don't understand why person did X" then that is your cue to explain why you did X. You don't need to be posed a question in order to be cued into explaining yourself.
Basically doomfeathers made some townie posts and was the most active person in the thread, so I wanted to know if he's likely to do that as scum.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Yep. And you were scummy until that time. You even gave a emotional explanation to your lacklusterness when I was pressuring you, you hadn't played in a long time, etc.In post 154, hapahauli wrote:Rela, Didnt you think I was mafia in our last game until hours before the D1 lynch?TL Mafia is best mafia-
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yes he was. Pushing totally random things that didn't make anyone scum. The HF case was where he started becoming townieIn post 158, outoforder wrote:
oh man, no he wasn't.In post 157, Rels wrote:
Yep. And you were scummy until that time. You even gave a emotional explanation to your lacklusterness when I was pressuring you, you hadn't played in a long time, etc.In post 154, hapahauli wrote:Rela, Didnt you think I was mafia in our last game until hours before the D1 lynch?TL Mafia is best mafia-
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I tell things when I have things to tellIn post 162, outoforder wrote:Rels tell me something about something that does not involve hapa, KidAmn or havingfitz?TL Mafia is best mafia-
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I feel like this game is gonna be EZIn post 168, Creature wrote:outoforder, Rels, doomfeathers.
Let's fuse together to powertown this game.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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lolIn post 171, Creature wrote:We need three more strong townreads though (unless you trust luck).
Game is never solved on D1TL Mafia is best mafia-
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so did you ever do that ?In post 200, outoforder wrote:Aubrey's mindset seems totally different as mafia than here. Also he jumps on same sort of things he isn't jumping on here. Granted, i haven't seen a town game of his so point me out to one and i will rejudge.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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There are two reasons Hapa is scum. They come down to the fact that Hapa is a wonderful town player and a lackluster scum player. A few years back on TL Hapa was considered one of the best own around, and it is because he KNOWS how to see motives behind post. He sees logic thought process and illogical one.
This game, he has not shown that. He has been bland. Asking questions. Defending himself. All of it is bland, nothing is smart. That is why he's scum.
Furthermore, but only rayn can assest to that; last game the same thing kinda happened. For 24 hours Hapa was bland, and I pressured him. He woke up and showed two things : smart posts on one end, and genuine frustration feelings on the other. He was feeling bad at the fact that he was playing bad and that he was being scumlread. THere, after rayn, I and others pressured him, nothing of that.
So he's scum. The plus side is that if he's not scum he will wake up like the town god he is.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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I'm the only one I think atmIn post 400, Creature wrote:How many votes hapahauli is at?TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Creature seems super town because he's posting all the time. When he's being townread by people with influence in the thread. He doesn't like being play, source : his wiki and his scum games. Here we have a mix of some I-dont-care-what-you-think posts and good activity.
MAYBE he's tryharding. We'll see if he drops off. But he seems super town.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Kops's filter is horrible too.
1. Most of it is useless stuff.
But not the townie kind of useless stuff. Not the "I-dont-care-about-others" posts. No, useless-but-still-trying-to-look-useful kind.
Useless question that have no follow up.In post 18, Kop wrote:
What do you think of that post?In post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.In post 125, Kop wrote:
There are no certainties of who is scum unless we have guilty or a scum claim. Votes on a wagon of someone you suspect gets far more answers than just sitting on your hands until you find someone who's willing, to put there hands up and say "hey I'm scum." Or even starting up a voting process on one of your top suspects.In post 79, outoforder wrote:I don't care. I vote when i actually am fairly certain someone is scum. If people wanna paint it as hesitant scum then they do. ^^
I see votes as "i am trying to lynch this person i think is mafia", not as "i voted for random person" or "reaction test" or whatever... It just is confusing imo. Keep it simple, that's what i like to do regarding votes. I believe that way scum have no outs from their votes, as if you vote you only vote for one reason and one reason only and you can never say "well i actually didn't think that guy was scum after all at the time".In post 264, Kop wrote:Look at that buddying.In post 293, Kop wrote:I don't really like giant walls because scum sometimes use that to scare off potential suspects.In post 304, Kop wrote:Not being able to read someone simply because they are hard to read doest make them scum.2. His ONE scumread is bad, he's not voting him, he's not pressuring him.
This one:
First, this reasonning doesn't make anyone scum. Town are way more likely to flip flop their read on someone than scum. The inquisitive tone in the last paragraph is also not in phase with Kop's actions: he's not voting doom, he's not talking to him even though he's STILL HERE when doom comes back.In post 242, Kop wrote:In post 210, doomfeathers wrote:Fitz looks townie to me. This scares me, because I townread him for playing exactly the same last game. He was scum.
Your vote doesn't make any sense. Why would you say he looks townie, but then vote for him a few posts after. I understand you said that he was like that in the previous game but turned out to be scum, so you have paranoia that it could be another turn out like that, but is that the only reason your suspecting him?In post 218, doomfeathers wrote:Also, there's nobody here who isn't a plausible wagonee, so literally any vote could be seen that way.
If you're referring to my jumpy voting, I do that at the beginning of every game. I can provide references if you wish. I find it helpful to know how people respond when I vote for them.
Pedit: Okay, then. That's been the case in the past sometimes, now that I think about it. He'll need to get involved soon to avoid the prod anyway.
VOTE: havingfitz
Because in reality, your vote doesn't have a case or is backed up with any questions towards fitz to answer too. It feels to me that you were questioned about your previous vote on a needless slot right now, to someone that could appear needing pressure. And that is backed up by you asking Aubrey for her thoughts on Fitz, as if your trying to push Aubrey into Fitz direction.
This post is after he explained why he scumread doom; after he agreed with Aubrey that doom was scummy; and after doom came back to the thread. But he doesn't do anything with him and leave the thread.
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Yeah. Probably scum.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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On the minus side she had a a pretty bad re-entrance to the thread. She even acknolodged it herself, but acknowledging it doesn't make it any less scummier. She declared three tentative townreads on OOO (rayn in the above posts, sorry, will try to call him OOO) Creature on I, all of 3 we townread each other, probably some easy reads to copy for a scum when reading the thread and thinking about how to blend in.
Then she has to be forced to give a scumread, and it's lackluster.
On the plus side, after that she shows some change on these townreads. Like she does'tn know what to do. it feels town.
On another minus side she's focusing a LOT of these 4 players: doom OOO creature and I. Like she's kinda ignoring what's happening on the side. And it's a scum trait usually.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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I really dislike that fitz left after making a big catch up post. Even though I don't think the catch up is scummy in itself. But making a big post when being suspected then GTFOing is more likely coming from scum than town I think. But he has his IRL excuse.
I'm intersted to see what he brings when he coems back.
(BTW fitz I saw you had questions for me in this big post. Ask them again if they are still relevent when you coma back)TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Yeah OOO is 100% right. Fredrik asking that:In post 370, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:
Within 24 hours there were 5 pages. The activity is good, but that means I could spend forever reading past posts.In post 330, outoforder wrote:
I mean like:In post 328, outoforder wrote:The posts are literally next to each other... You are saying you just randomly decided to stop reading further at that point? If i am completely honest, FECambell, i'd like to have you actually reach to some conclusions because you aren't really giving us anything right now.
You have already commented things that have happened way after those posts you just were concerned about. How does it make any sense that you didn't care about them the first time you read it or are you reading the thread backwards or something?
When the answer is literally in the NEXT post after the last one he quoted. Not the next post in the ISO; the next post in the thread:In post 326, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:In post 32, doomfeathers wrote:
The illusion of non-randomness must be present for an RVS vote to be of any use. Also, how should I abbreviate your name? Does OOO work?In post 11, outoforder wrote:I've always wondered why people actually pick the people they do vote at the start of the game. I don't actually believe anyone ever goes to random.org or rolls a dice or something like that.
You know Rels, then, even though this is the first game you've posted in? Are you an alt?In post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.
The MooginSoosy post is pretty obviously not serious, so this post inclines me to think outoforder is overeager town if newbie. If alt, maybe not.
So you know outoforder, too?In post 22, hapahauli wrote:
Why aren't you asking me about it?In post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.
VOTE: outoforder
From my experience, that means she's probably town.In post 23, Creature wrote:Aubrey's giving the most scum impression so far.
Yup, that's an alt.In post 26, outoforder wrote:
Because i don't feel like i need to ask you about it. From what i remember playing with you you will make your alignment clear to me before D1 ends even if i didn't prod you in any way. There is also a Rels-specific reason i am not willing to discuss yet.In post 22, hapahauli wrote:
Why aren't you asking me about it?In post 16, outoforder wrote:Hey Rels, when you're around, let me know what you think of the MooginSoosy post.
VOTE: outoforder
But while you're at it, care to elaborate on this; This is what i believe to be a fact. You don't tend to participate in RVS / pressure vote shennies at D1 start, especailly towards a player you MUST know to not respond to being "pressured" by giving away his alignment as mafia. I mean like if i was scum i couldn't care less that there are people voting for me over absolutely nothing. You know that aswell so the only conclusions i can come to are that either (1) you actually think i am mafia, or (2) you are mafia.
So why do you think i am mafia? You really couldn't think i could possibly have - at this point of the game - a specific question to a specific player that i would not feel the need to ask you aswell, just because i have played with both of you before? In case there is option (3) aswell, feel free to tell me what that is.
VOTE: outoforderIn post 35, doomfeathers wrote:Never mind, sorry. Aubrey's a guy. I assumed Aubrey was a girl because I've only heard the name as a girl's name.What is your logic for unvoting?
In post 37, doomfeathers wrote:Wow. I didn't notice how close that was to lynch.
Then he's replacing after being pressured on that point. Not saying mental stress is faked, BTW sorry bro hope you'll be OK. But playing scum is definitely more stresful than town. Especially when you make a blunder like that.In post 38, doomfeathers wrote:OOO is now at L-3.
This slot is looking scum too.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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First, I disagree that we should null read Fred because he feels bad and is replacing out. It might be the best fair way to treat his slot, but the game is about finding scum, so I'll use any information available.In post 421, Aubrey wrote: I know your going to complain when I ask this, but why are you scum reading Frederick again? Because if memory serves me correctly, it was due to him missing content or something before posting? If he is going through a shitty time, it is understandable to think that maybe he isn't putting his all into the game, or is heavily distracted due to the shit. Hence the replace out. He seriously should be put back to a null position in your reads vs. scum read if that is the case. For example: If he lost his job, going through a rough patch with family, has depression issues, school is kicking his ass, etc. it is understandable for lousy town or scum play.
What Fred did was:
1. don't do anything for several days, excuse: he was busy preparing his Dad's birthday. No problem there.
2. his first meaningful post is asking about something that happens post 36. BUT the answer is in post 37.
3. OOO calls him out on that
4. he gives an excuse that don't mean anything, then replaces out
2 things.
First, step 2 is scummy. He looks like scum that KNOWS he needs to start becoming active to not get lynched at some point. And the best way to look active is to ask pointless question that looks good. The problem is that this question don't try to push the game forward. It's a indicator of him being scum. In addition, the answer was LITERALLY in the next post. It shows that Frederick cared more about appearing active than solving the game.
Second, step 4 is scummy. That might be not fair. But Frederick made a blunder; got pressured by OOO; and replaced out. He didn't replace out of nowhere; he replaced specifically after being pressured. More likely coming from scum than town.
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Now it is not slam dunk scum. It's still D1. It's possible he's town and played badly. But it's more likely he's scum.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Dat hypeIn post 423, havingfitz wrote:
Back. Will catch up asap.In post 205, havingfitz wrote:mod...I will be v/LA from now until Tuesday morning.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Started playing something like 1 year and a half ago, link to all my games: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=RelsIn post 425, Aubrey wrote:If that is all it takes to be scumread by ya'll then this will be an interesting game. How much experience do the two of you have out of curiosity?
OOO and Hapa have way more experience than me
I don't understand your mindset. Yes if someone does something scummy I consider him more likely to be scum than before he did that. If his replacement does something townier my read will change.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Yeah it's not 100% sure. D1 lynch are almost never 100% anyway. But I disagree that it's NAI. The easiest thing to do for scum is precisely to look for new things to talk about, to appear to be active; and asking useless questions are a way to do that.In post 428, Aubrey wrote:My mindset is easy to understand. I can see a world where a town Fred missed a post. The fact you all don't consider that baffles me. I miss, forget, or misunderstand posts all the time. If he wanted to seem like relevant scum why not just regurgate things that are already being said vs. looking back into the game for something useless to talk about? He understands his head isn't in the best place and leaves. I'm not getting any AI vibes from it.
At least you recognize that it is by no means a slam dunk.
I already explained why I think the rest is AI: the fact that he didn't see a post that was JUST below the one he was wondering about could show that he had no intention to solve the game with that question; and leaving after being pressured is more a scum thing than a town thing.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Well that's totally fine.In post 434, Aubrey wrote:Pretty sure we are going to be coming at this game on completely different viewpoints.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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meh. Very meh. He's sitting aside. He's not pressuring doom after his vote on him. His scumread on Moongin is pretty vague, dunno why you townread him for that.In post 436, outoforder wrote:
Read my filter and you'll find out.In post 433, Rels wrote:OOO why is Kop town ?TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Apparently I don't know what ASAP meansIn post 424, Rels wrote:
Dat hypeIn post 423, havingfitz wrote:
Back. Will catch up asap.In post 205, havingfitz wrote:mod...I will be v/LA from now until Tuesday morning.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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haha p:In post 446, outoforder wrote:
If a 48h game it means at most something like 3 hours, maybe in this game it's 24 hrs?Apparently I don't know what ASAP means
I also just learned quotes are super annoying here.
Dunno, on one hand it's annoying that quotes don't auto-hide. On the other hand having the link to the quoted post is pretty awesome p:TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Still faster than ASAPIn post 449, hapahauli wrote:Getting back into the swing of things. Need a few hours to catch up.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Gratz =DIn post 462, Hawk wrote:My baby girl was just born! Will be back later maybe earlier than tomorrow just felt like sharing!!!TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Rels Goon
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Rels Goon
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This in particular makes no sense. This looks like stretching to find reasons to OMGUSIn post 472, KidAmn wrote:You call Kop your second strongest read and then follow it with a list of reasons he might not be scum, one of which is his posting style with bigass walls of text catchup, while criticising me for having a weak scum-read on Creature but admitting that part of my issue could just be his posting style
Do you not see the contradiction thereTL Mafia is best mafia-
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Rels Goon
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KidDamn throwing a fist for a little bit then GTFOing could be scum indicative too.In post 479, KidAmn wrote:...at this point I'm going to assume you're scum being intentionally dense because nobody can be this goddamn dumb after both doom and I have pointed out the inconsistency to you, so good night.TL Mafia is best mafia-
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Rels Goon
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The bolded is weird. Why would Fitz do something obviously bad ?In post 454, hapahauli wrote:still is probably my second strongest read. I did not like his "wall-o-text" catchup post in the least bit.FitzIt's like he made it intentionally super hard to read,while criticizing OoO's wall for being hard-to-read.
Though two things give me pause (and have me wanting KidAmn dead first):
1) Multiple people have been complaining about OoO's post-length, which makes it possible that being anti-wall-of-text is some standard mafiascum meta thing.
2) I've seen townies do the "post while catching up wall-of-text" before, and they always read as very awkward/scummy to me.
I think there's a chance that Fitz is just a really awkward poster. Not a large chance, but certainly more of a chance than KidAmn.
About 1), didn't you say you already played in this forum ? Why are you not aware of that ?TL Mafia is best mafia
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