Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[Rels]

Btw i still think havingfitz is scum. I went to reread his filter and what he basically did in his wall of text was this:\
- I don't like wall of texts -> writes a wall of text -> the conclusion he ends up in is "now let me continue and post my reads later".......

VOTE: havingfitz

this is it ?

[Rels]

You scumread Creature and you are scumreading hapa.

Your information must be pretty old. Cassielle hasn't been scumreading Creature for a while.

There is nothing in her filter between those posts. There is no "oh i changed my mind, i think this is the truth instead". Just a scumread on hapa + creature and then a vote on kidam while no reasoning why the read on the earlier two has changed.

Havingfitz is scum though. Deflecting a case on him based on nothing that was on the case != "here is why you are wrong". It is "i am discrediting you gor other atuff because i cant prove you are wrong".

Go read his wot and then compare it with what i said. Please.

Does noone find anything wrong in fitz complaining about wot's in a wot that ends up in no conclusions? And then trying to fend off the suspicion because of something else i did (instead of elaborating on the obvious contradiction).

meh meh meh. Not convincing. Then you're just repeating "we should vote fitz for the reaosns I stated before" when it's just that.

[BlackVoid]

Hey Rels, while you are here, can you go over if your reads have changed at all after seeing Hawk's flip and if you got any new reads from how the end of day went down. In particular, I'm scumreading HavingFitz for pushing the Kop wagon as an alternative to Hawk and I think Kop is probably town for being a counterwagon to scum and I'd like your thoughts on that. Also, wouldn't mind hearing your best guesses for who the remaining two scum are.

[Rels]

Hey Rels, while you are here, can you go over if your reads have changed at all after seeing Hawk's flip and if you got any new reads from how the end of day went down. In particular, I'm scumreading HavingFitz for pushing the Kop wagon as an alternative to Hawk and I think Kop is probably town for being a counterwagon to scum and I'd like your thoughts on that. Also, wouldn't mind hearing your best guesses for who the remaining two scum are.

Reading Hawk's ISO right now. You can stop being my cheerleader now, D1 is over now I will begin solving the game my way (= I won't be inactive starting now.
My reads haven't changed for now but aren't really cemented either. You became conf town, OOO is super likely town, Hapa is likely town. I didn't have the impression that Kop was being pushed as a counterwagon that much, I was trying to get him lynched at some point and didn't succeed. Gotta read exactly what happened though.

[Creature]

Can anyone help me with my homework about Modern Times film? It's for tomorrow.

[Rels]

and fucking WP on pushing Hawk. I had him too but then became doubtful over some shitty posts

[Rels]

Can anyone help me with my homework about Modern Times film? It's for tomorrow.

it's an old movie

[Rels]

you're welcome

[BlackVoid]

My best guess for scum right now is you (Rels) and Fitz. I'm not cheerleading so much as trying to figure out if I'm wrong by looking at other possibilities, seeing whether your reads make sense and how genuine they are. Glad to hear you'll be more active though.

[Rels]

Post #348
Immediately attacks doom after entering the thread with an in length post. Low probability of them being partners.

Post #356
Votes Moogin (now BV) while explaining his reasons to scumread Kop in the same post. Maybe a parnter indicator on Kop / Hawk.

Even early in his ISO, lots of interactions with OOO. It's a not-partner indicator.

Post #462
Baby is born! Gratz again (=

Post #588
Voting Kop while kinda townreading him : "Idk where I'm sitting anymore but I actually quite liked Kops response to Doom and his case against him. I don't like that Kop isn't voting it takes a lot of the oomph out of his rebuttal :/. Kop what are you thinking? Who's scummy? " Weird thing. Could be him voting his partner while giving him an out. Or could be him weakly voting a scummy townie. No tell there.

Post #789
Over attacking KidDamn for being scummy as hell ? Kinda makes KidDamn town probably

mm. Actually saying multiple times Hapa is scummy but NEVER voting for him. But keeping him as a back lynch. Saying stuff like "we sqhould go back on Hapa if we have nothing better". But his vote is on other people. Me. Then Aubrey when BV started pushing that.
Starting with this post in his filter. He's treating Hapa like someone who needs to go at some point. He's ready to hammer him. But he never does. He's always waiting. But when the Aubrey train starts, he's OK voting Aubrey.
That's actually a big partner indicator right there.
His first post on Hapa was actually partner indicative too. Question about someone's read of Hapa + "I'll vote for him later" ...

I'm not usually convinced by Meta posts and reasonings mostly because I think Meta isn't Alignment indicative. But it might also be my inexperience on forum Mafia so I don't go digging super hard on past games.

Moogin are you gonna give your read on Rels especially since Rels came in with some very nice aggressive scumhunting here? Can you give a read on Hapa as well while your at it since you said you didn't understand why people thought Hapa was scummy?

Hapa's on VLA I guess still so I'll wait until he at least comes back before dropping a 3rd vote on his wagon.

Shortly after his Aubrey vote he's beginning to get pushed to death. Soon after that it's becoming more and morelikely he will be killed. So the rest of the posts are WIFOM.

[Rels]

My best guess for scum right now is you (Rels) and Fitz. I'm not cheerleading so much as trying to figure out if I'm wrong by looking at other possibilities, seeing whether your reads make sense and how genuine they are. Glad to hear you'll be more active though.

I'll never get lynched this game. Unless OOO is scum. If he gets me lynched, he's scum 100%. I can understand his suspicions of me right now but after a little while they will be gone UNLESS he's scum.

[Rels]

And I don't remember any mention of Fitz in Hawk's ISO. Which is a big partner tell in itself actually

[Rels]

First mention is a question ABOUT Fitz:

VOTE: doomefeathers

I don't see their posts being helpful to town in any way. I dont see their votes being helpful in any way. Why bother putting your vote on fitz when they're going to be vla until Tuesday?? I still dislike their post about strategy in the night, it seems like a scum trying to be town and give the town this brilliant solution to the night phases

You mean this? This reads to me as my two problems are
1. Voting someone who is VLA is not productive to town.
2. I don't like that you're talking mechanics it seems scummy and/or Fake town.

Doom is suspicious to me because he jumps from vote to vote and doesn't try to pull any information out of them. He wants other people to see his votes and hopes they'll go after them. He's not hunting the people that he's voting for actively.

This when asked about her reads reads as her changing her read and regurgitating my point I just made. But sure I can see what you're getting at let me redact.

So all you have to add to your opinion of Doom is the same thing I just said. Color me not impressed it felt like an attempt at appeasing someone who put pressure on you.

@Moogin what do you think about Doom retracting his vote on Fitz because of the VLA admitting he must have been tired in 296 . Does him voting Fitz still weigh on your scumread of him?

Also any other thoughts besides what's been presented thus far?

Pedit: I can only imagine Aubrey lol what a reunion.

Then only mentioning him while not reading him:
Post #659
Post #701

Yet suddenly way later Fitz' wagon was only a distraction to the real scums:

Yeah I think if Hapa flips town Rels and OoO feel like good counter points. OoO has done a much less spectacular job outside of that first section of the game. Which with a little bit of coordination and some use of TL meta could all be contrived info. Of the three Hapa looked the worse but was also the one being setup if he flips town.

I don't like that OoO comes back with such a misrep on Cass feels like it's rather odd and kinda LAMIST. Then distraction wagon of Fitz who hasn't been corner for concern since much earlier in the day.

I'm okay with Hapa lynch today, if he flips scum I'm looking at Rels if he flips town look at OoO.

If we don't lynch Hapa, Rels is my backup because I think those two will yield the greatest information gain.

KidDamn looks like lynch bait by Rels Hapa wagon.

VOTE: Rels

Pedit: Kop echos sentiments here but I'm still concerned he's pushing Rels more than Hapa... but if that's the case I can easily see Kop Hapa if it's not Rels Hapa or something along those lines.

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

But later he implies he would be OK with a Fitz lynch if Hapa didn't have so many votes:

Charge your phone post later we have more than 24 hours so we can wait a bit but I will push through Hapa lynch if you don't come back with something ridiculous cause I don't see Fitz lynch happening.

[Rels]

Fitz / Hapa makes a lot of sense reading Hawk's filter. Let's reread theirs

[Rels]

496 @Rels...I've never seen someone not able to get replaced. it could take a few days but I do not see the mod doing anything to that slot.

Speaking of the mod...he hasn't logged in since Monday so he may have already got some offers to replace Fred.

And a votecount would be nice mod...

498 @Rels...when I read a game and see posts that have me nodding in agreement or feel as though they are like minded to what I am thinking I typically assign a town read to that person. I have seen more posts like that from KidAdm than I haven't. My two catch up walls should point to several Kid posts that I got a good feel from.

As the game progresses and we get flips...and more content is provided my reads are of course subject to change. As an example...I like Kop for the same reasons as I do Kid. But I think your post /case towards Kop has some good observations. So while I would not be interested in a Kop lynch atm over the players I find more suspect...I would say you have tarnished my read on him slightly. Also...the fact that two of my townreads are voting him (Kop) is annoying.

As for the players I do suspect...it is a tossup between the three of them.

I haven't like Aubrey for much of this game because of his lazy perch on me. When I am town, players who are coming at me are naturally going to warrant my attention (OMGUS bedamned). And while I can respect suspicions towards me if I think they are genuine, Aubrey however has been parked on me the entire game for extremely weak (and misplaced) reasons. I also think there is a good chance that at least one scum is a more active player who will try to push the game to meet their agenda vice sitting back and hoping things work out their way. Aubrey fits this line of thought. And the fact that he is generally being town read afaict makes no difference, even in his own opinion. That said...I do not think an Aubrey vote would not gain traction.

Creature is suspect because he is all over the place. He entered the game very reluctant to provide any legitimate responses and/or blew off questions. He has expressed a willingness to vote "almost" anyone. His flips in opinion on me (and his buddy Aubrey) have come seemingly out of nowhere and I fail to see any pro-town content coming from him.

hapa is suspect because 1) a town read for me (Rel) and a TBD for me but generally townread OoO both appear extremely confident in their suspicions of hapa. For more gut I would say than solid fact but familiarity does deserve consideration. I also really dislike the way hapa eased on to my wagon in support of the Aubrey (crap) suspicions towards me and then seemed to backtrack on the crux of Aubrey's case (my questions) and say it wasn't any particular questions more so than that multiple people had issue with them. Oh...and that I ironically warned OoO against wall posting in my wall post.

I think I weigh all of my suspects about the same...but I think hapa has the best chance of being the D1 lynch. My alternative to hapa would probably be Creature.

VOTE: hapahauli

Well that probably put an end to an Hapa / Fitz team

[Rels]

it was just after Hapa came back with big cases too, while he had several votes on him. Makes 0 sense to push + vote him at that point if they're together

[Rels]

If scum had daytalk

, we could make some hypothesis.

Creature must be town cause he didn't know scum had daytalk. I mean...how could he aside from the fact it's been mentioned several times and....

Mafia has daytalk

/sarcasm

Well it is a great point actually. Unless you can show me that scum!creature tries to dumbtell, dumbtells like that about stuff that scum would know without a shadow of a doubt very often comes from townies.

[Rels]

Unbelievable.

BV...you derail the hapa wagon (which I can live with) in favor of an Aubrey wagon (which I can live with)...spend several hours and countless posts making a case on Aubrey and pushing/urging/lobbying for others to join his wagon only to change your mind at the 11th hour to start one on a player I have been town reading. smh.....

I'm cool with Aubrey lasting because he at least will post...but not at the expense of someone I'm reading as town.

Really annoyed at Kop's lat post and he has garnered a fair amount of suspicion....

VOTE: Kop

Feeling pretty confident scum don't want to bus Hawk right now and would prefer to take the easy Kop lynch which I'm starting to think is town just based on how he is the counterwagon to Hawk.

OK I see what you meant. Fitz is also never scum with Kop too. At most 1 of these 2 can be.

[Rels]

Although Fitz is defending Hawk hard around deadline. Maybe a little too hard to be his partner

[Rels]

If you look at how Hawk has approached this game, there's so much stuff that's weird inside information. I'll also tell you this: I was holding onto this piece of information until I could ascertain Fitz's alignment for certain - Fitz hates bussing in general. When he was willing to vote you but not Hawk, that's when it confirmed to me that they were partnered.

But that could explain it

[Rels]

Hello, I am here for blood.

In any case, I don't want to lynch Kop. You said you wanted to lynch both of them, right? I'm very particular about wanting to lynch Hawk. Since you are so sure I'm town, you know I'm saying that because I'm trying to manipulate anything. Let's go with Hawk since you're fine lynching him. I'm really not fine lynching Kop today.

@ BV

Is your reason to not lynch Kop mainly that you're convinced Hawk/Fitz are mafia? Or is there some Kop town thing I'm missing.

Hawk/Fitz/Rels. Kop is not hugely town by any means but he does have some town moments like that vote on Rels.

He doesn't fit as scum with anyone else. It's nothing more than a feel-good lynch. The way Hawk jumped onto Aubrey with the reasoning he gave was really opportunistic.

VOTE: Hawk

If we're not voting Aubrey, I'm fine with this. I don't remember anything he's posted, which according to my self-meta, probably means he's mafia.

meeeeeh thats absolutely not the townie vote I remember. Could be partner for sure

[Rels]

But if he's scum he was also fishing for a Kop vote instead. So I guess that makes Kop town unless both of Fitz / Hapa are town

[Rels]

You seriously just let Aubrey's AtE get to you but not mine...

dat rage ^^

[Rels]

i want everyone on this wagon any goddamn way because i do not want a damned no lynch

but if/when hawk flips green we take bv down imo

he derailed wagons and WHAT HAPPENED? -- wouldnt you know it -- EXACTLY WHAT I SAID WOULD HAPPEN
a fucking compromise panicvoted deadline mislynch

everyone else saw the argument for staying on hapa but you wanna talk about browbeating? bv refused to engage with anyone who took a hard "no" stance on his bs
so people trickled away and scumleaned me like i was somehow talking crazy shit

this is such a townie post too. Cass can be conf town with BV

[Rels]

So. I have a problem. One of Fitz / Hapa is very very likely scum. But they're not together. And I have no idea who is the third then. I guess KidDamn is the less townie of the rest but it's also like THE easy scumread + there was one Hawk post where he attacked him that would be weird if they're partners.