Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[BlackVoid]

Hap's last login now changed to Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:21:34 am. I think it's off by a few hours and maybe only shows the last time you logged in if you are currently online. But he hasn't posted in more than forty-eight hours despite being online often.

[outoforder]

that cant be true since i know at least i unvoted right after that and Hawk's post came over 80 posts after.

[KidAmn]

Shockingly, I'm actually going to agree with Rels and ask you for an explanation here Cass. You're making it sound like you want Rels and I to keep dancing for your amusement here and I'd rather not continue until I know the tune.

[outoforder]

Thanks for that though Cass.
So at post 888 we are looking at:

[L-4] Hapahauli - KidAmn, Creature, BlackVoid
[L-5] KidAmn - Rels, hapahauli
[L-5] Kop - Aubrey, doomfeathers
[L-5] Rels - Kop, Hawk
[L-6] doomfeathers - MooginSoosy
[L-6] havingfitz - outoforder

[outoforder]

Shockingly, I'm actually going to agree with Rels and ask you for an explanation here Cass. You're making it sound like you want Rels and I to keep dancing for your amusement here and I'd rather not continue until I know the tune.

Just let it go for now, when the elaboration comes we can figure out if it makes sense or not.
If it's her "wanting Rels and you to keep dancing for her amusement" it's gonna show.

[Rels]

yo Cass for the third time what's softballing and why are you saying I'm doing it ?

im keeping this quiet because reasons

if you really, truly still dont know after ive seen what i wanted, ill tell you, sure

for now? i wait for you and kidamn to continue

OK. Don't know how you giving a definition wastes whatever you're looking for but OK. We'll see what you have in mind later then.

[outoforder]

BlackVoid:

I don't find the argument as compelling as you do. I don't understand why does he call Hapa his #1 scum suspect at the time in the first place if he fears Hapa is getting lynched and is his partner. He doesn't really have to. Like why not just call Rels mafia there instead? Furthermore this sticks to my eye so hard:

Yeah I think if Hapa flips town Rels and OoO feel like good counter points. OoO has done a much less spectacular job outside of that first section of the game. Which with a little bit of coordination and some use of TL meta could all be contrived info. Of the three Hapa looked the worse but was also the one being setup if he flips town.

I don't like that OoO comes back with such a misrep on Cass feels like it's rather odd and kinda LAMIST. Then distraction wagon of Fitz who hasn't been corner for concern since much earlier in the day.

I'm okay with Hapa lynch today, if he flips scum I'm looking at Rels if he flips town look at OoO.

If we don't lynch Hapa, Rels is my backup because I think those two will yield the greatest information gain.

KidDamn looks like lynch bait by Rels Hapa wagon.

VOTE: Rels

Pedit: Kop echos sentiments here but I'm still concerned he's pushing Rels more than Hapa... but if that's the case I can easily see Kop Hapa if it's not Rels Hapa or something along those lines.

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

Because what i see there is a setup to lynch 2 townies assuming Hapa is town (as he is basically telling "if people wanna lynch Hapa i will follow").
Do you really think he is actively trying to lynch Rels based on a case like "he's my #2 scumread and will yield most information if we lynch him"? Because i don't.

[outoforder]

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since

he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

oh my...
i so do this when i am mafia. i so do just the same because i am an arrogant prick. ^_^

[Rels]

BlackVoid:

I don't find the argument as compelling as you do. I don't understand why does he call Hapa his #1 scum suspect at the time in the first place if he fears Hapa is getting lynched and is his partner. He doesn't really have to. Like why not just call Rels mafia there instead? Furthermore this sticks to my eye so hard:

Yeah I think if Hapa flips town Rels and OoO feel like good counter points. OoO has done a much less spectacular job outside of that first section of the game. Which with a little bit of coordination and some use of TL meta could all be contrived info. Of the three Hapa looked the worse but was also the one being setup if he flips town.

I don't like that OoO comes back with such a misrep on Cass feels like it's rather odd and kinda LAMIST. Then distraction wagon of Fitz who hasn't been corner for concern since much earlier in the day.

I'm okay with Hapa lynch today, if he flips scum I'm looking at Rels if he flips town look at OoO.

If we don't lynch Hapa, Rels is my backup because I think those two will yield the greatest information gain.

KidDamn looks like lynch bait by Rels Hapa wagon.

VOTE: Rels

Pedit: Kop echos sentiments here but I'm still concerned he's pushing Rels more than Hapa... but if that's the case I can easily see Kop Hapa if it's not Rels Hapa or something along those lines.

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

Because what i see there is a setup to lynch 2 townies assuming Hapa is town (as he is basically telling "if people wanna lynch Hapa i will follow").
Do you really think he is actively trying to lynch Rels based on a case like "he's my #2 scumread and will yield most information if we lynch him"? Because i don't.

The problem is not that. It's not that he was fighting to lynch me over Hapa. It is that he didn't vote Hapa, while at the same time showing that he was willing to vote the other wagons that got started => me, then Aubrey. While he kept repeating "I'll vote Hapa later if he's the lynch", he never commited to it.

[outoforder]

come on you were never gonna get lynched and you know it aswell as i do.

[cassielle]

BlackVoid:

I don't find the argument as compelling as you do. I don't understand why does he call Hapa his #1 scum suspect at the time in the first place if he fears Hapa is getting lynched and is his partner. He doesn't really have to. Like why not just call Rels mafia there instead? Furthermore this sticks to my eye so hard:

Yeah I think if Hapa flips town Rels and OoO feel like good counter points. OoO has done a much less spectacular job outside of that first section of the game. Which with a little bit of coordination and some use of TL meta could all be contrived info. Of the three Hapa looked the worse but was also the one being setup if he flips town.

I don't like that OoO comes back with such a misrep on Cass feels like it's rather odd and kinda LAMIST. Then distraction wagon of Fitz who hasn't been corner for concern since much earlier in the day.

I'm okay with Hapa lynch today, if he flips scum I'm looking at Rels if he flips town look at OoO.

If we don't lynch Hapa, Rels is my backup because I think those two will yield the greatest information gain.

KidDamn looks like lynch bait by Rels Hapa wagon.

VOTE: Rels

Pedit: Kop echos sentiments here but I'm still concerned he's pushing Rels more than Hapa... but if that's the case I can easily see Kop Hapa if it's not Rels Hapa or something along those lines.

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

Because what i see there is a setup to lynch 2 townies assuming Hapa is town (as he is basically telling "if people wanna lynch Hapa i will follow").
Do you really think he is actively trying to lynch Rels based on a case like "he's my #2 scumread and will yield most information if we lynch him"? Because i don't.

read a little further ahead, just after the vc where the rels wagon has 4 people on board -- hes saying he doesnt want a rels lynch today, he wants a hapa lynch d1, hes just pressing rels for (???? something about a lynch)

ill dig up the quote

p-edit: i did the same thing rels so unless you scumread me for that thats a poor argument. consistency or trash it
ooo's holds better

[outoforder]

there was never anything to commit into later because BV lead the town into Aubrey -> Hawk.
Hapa was not really a "viable" wagon when BV started doing stuff for reals.

[outoforder]

read a little further ahead, just after the vc where the rels wagon has 4 people on board -- hes saying he doesnt want a rels lynch today, he wants a hapa lynch d1, hes just pressing rels for (???? something about a lynch)

If this is true seems like he wasn't wanting to lynch Rels after all.. ^^

[cassielle]

@Hawk - how did you go from "Hap looks the worst of the three TL players and Rels is my backup," and saying that you are "okay with a Hap lynch, look at Rels if he's scum" to voting Rels? Then you say you are concerned that Kop is pushing Rels and that you could see Hap/Kop or Hap/Rels. Based on all of this, you should be voting Hap so I have no idea how you winded up with a Rels vote.

You distinctly left off a grand portion of my sentiments there including that I feel like of the three Hapa looks the worst but is also the one being pressured most and could be BEING SETUP either for a bus or a ML. Look at how OoO and Rels initially pressure and vote Hapa then Rels backs off from one reentering post by Hapa. At first during the day I dismissed almost that entire section of the read to being meta driven TL stuff but now that you pointed out more concisely that I can see a case for Hapa that isn't meta driven I'm worried that the Meta read from Rels and subsequent back off is either setting up Hapa as a Bus or as a ML.

Like Hapa's wagon has 0 resistance, (asside from me town reading his AtE earlier.) No one is actively saying we shouldnt vote Hapa except for Hapa.

That is like giant red warning signals flashing for me and I think since Hapa isn't going anywhere and we can just lynch him tomorrow even if it doesn't go anywhere applying pressure and possibly lynching associatives can put town one step closer to finding all 3 scum.

I mean say we lynch Hapa today no question to Rels motivations for saying no wait stop or Kops motivations to voting Rels instead of Hapa or anything Cass is doing or anything else. If Hapa flips town now where are we. Pushing Rels cause he called Hapa town? Pushing Cass, Creature, KidDamn and Everyone else who said Hapa is scum? oh wait that's everyone (sans kinda Rels and maybe OoO?)

Yeah I'm fairly certain Hapa will flip scum but I want more traction laid down by Rels and everyone else who has any motivations for not lynching Hapa. They have to be accountable whether he flips scum (likely) or flips town (unlikely).

Like this isn't us pushing a mislynch. We probably lynch Hapa today. But we have time. We still have what 2 days to talk? And OoO still hasn't really weighed back in besides a redux back onto Fitz which doesn't sit well with me either.

Pedit: I'll respond to Fitz in a minute. I'm just worried that Rels who seems to be the most active TL member who seems to TR Hapa and I want to know why.

nvm hes completely incoherent here
i bolded the standouts though -- its clear he wasnt looking for EITHER WAGON to hit lynchpoint

[Rels]

come on you were never gonna get lynched and you know it aswell as i do.

??? So ? It has nothing to do with the argument.

BlackVoid:

I don't find the argument as compelling as you do. I don't understand why does he call Hapa his #1 scum suspect at the time in the first place if he fears Hapa is getting lynched and is his partner. He doesn't really have to. Like why not just call Rels mafia there instead? Furthermore this sticks to my eye so hard:

Yeah I think if Hapa flips town Rels and OoO feel like good counter points. OoO has done a much less spectacular job outside of that first section of the game. Which with a little bit of coordination and some use of TL meta could all be contrived info. Of the three Hapa looked the worse but was also the one being setup if he flips town.

I don't like that OoO comes back with such a misrep on Cass feels like it's rather odd and kinda LAMIST. Then distraction wagon of Fitz who hasn't been corner for concern since much earlier in the day.

I'm okay with Hapa lynch today, if he flips scum I'm looking at Rels if he flips town look at OoO.

If we don't lynch Hapa, Rels is my backup because I think those two will yield the greatest information gain.

KidDamn looks like lynch bait by Rels Hapa wagon.

VOTE: Rels

Pedit: Kop echos sentiments here but I'm still concerned he's pushing Rels more than Hapa... but if that's the case I can easily see Kop Hapa if it's not Rels Hapa or something along those lines.

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

Because what i see there is a setup to lynch 2 townies assuming Hapa is town (as he is basically telling "if people wanna lynch Hapa i will follow").
Do you really think he is actively trying to lynch Rels based on a case like "he's my #2 scumread and will yield most information if we lynch him"? Because i don't.

read a little further ahead, just after the vc where the rels wagon has 4 people on board -- hes saying he doesnt want a rels lynch today, he wants a hapa lynch d1, hes just pressing rels for (???? something about a lynch)

ill dig up the quote

p-edit: i did the same thing rels so unless you scumread me for that thats a poor argument. consistency or trash it
ooo's holds better

Well, several things. First, it's a scum indicator - you have other things that makes you town, Hapa has less things of that. Second, I think Fitz is scum over Hapa anyway.

[outoforder]

come on you were never gonna get lynched and you know it aswell as i do.

??? So ? It has nothing to do with the argument.

Ofc it does. It has everything to do with the argument.
Regardless of your affiliation he is (as mafia) voting off the mislynch wagon ("town credit" + a scumread on you AND ME on D2 in case hapa flips). And he still keeps the backdoor for voting hapa open.

[outoforder]

@Hawk - how did you go from "Hap looks the worst of the three TL players and Rels is my backup," and saying that you are "okay with a Hap lynch, look at Rels if he's scum" to voting Rels? Then you say you are concerned that Kop is pushing Rels and that you could see Hap/Kop or Hap/Rels. Based on all of this, you should be voting Hap so I have no idea how you winded up with a Rels vote.

You distinctly left off a grand portion of my sentiments there including that I feel like of the three Hapa looks the worst but is also the one being pressured most and could be BEING SETUP either for a bus or a ML. Look at how OoO and Rels initially pressure and vote Hapa then Rels backs off from one reentering post by Hapa. At first during the day I dismissed almost that entire section of the read to being meta driven TL stuff but now that you pointed out more concisely that I can see a case for Hapa that isn't meta driven I'm worried that the Meta read from Rels and subsequent back off is either setting up Hapa as a Bus or as a ML.

Like Hapa's wagon has 0 resistance, (asside from me town reading his AtE earlier.) No one is actively saying we shouldnt vote Hapa except for Hapa.

That is like giant red warning signals flashing for me and I think since Hapa isn't going anywhere and we can just lynch him tomorrow even if it doesn't go anywhere applying pressure and possibly lynching associatives can put town one step closer to finding all 3 scum.

I mean say we lynch Hapa today no question to Rels motivations for saying no wait stop or Kops motivations to voting Rels instead of Hapa or anything Cass is doing or anything else. If Hapa flips town now where are we. Pushing Rels cause he called Hapa town? Pushing Cass, Creature, KidDamn and Everyone else who said Hapa is scum? oh wait that's everyone (sans kinda Rels and maybe OoO?)

Yeah I'm fairly certain Hapa will flip scum but I want more traction laid down by Rels and everyone else who has any motivations for not lynching Hapa. They have to be accountable whether he flips scum (likely) or flips town (unlikely).

Like this isn't us pushing a mislynch. We probably lynch Hapa today. But we have time. We still have what 2 days to talk? And OoO still hasn't really weighed back in besides a redux back onto Fitz which doesn't sit well with me either.

Pedit: I'll respond to Fitz in a minute. I'm just worried that Rels who seems to be the most active TL member who seems to TR Hapa and I want to know why.

nvm hes completely incoherent here
i bolded the standouts though -- its clear he wasnt looking for EITHER WAGON to hit lynchpoint

I think what you bolded basically is trying to say "i want people to vote for Hapa but i don't wanna do that".

[cassielle]

I had a nice reply typed up then my phone fucked it all up by restarting itself for a update. So I will post this when I can get in front of a computer since I actually have a lot to say about this.

But to answer that last part BV yes I intend baring us finding some really good reasoning based of Rels response to lynch him. Move back to Hapa to end the day with that lynch.

ah here we go.

[outoforder]

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since

he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

oh my...
i so do this when i am mafia. i so do just the same because i am an arrogant prick. ^_^

If we are talking about associative reads this is the best thing i have seen here (i am not saying this is the case but i kinda want it to be).
"Let's call someone town for a reason that should make people think i am town too for the same reason without me trying to tell them i am town, like they can figure it out by themselves, i just pointed them to the "right" track."

After this game if Rels happens to be mafia, i wanna know if this is true or not, because i tip my hat to you Hawk if it is, that's quite smart!

[outoforder]

I had a nice reply typed up then my phone fucked it all up by restarting itself for a update. So I will post this when I can get in front of a computer since I actually have a lot to say about this.

But to answer that last part BV yes I intend baring us finding some really good reasoning based of Rels response to lynch him. Move back to Hapa to end the day with that lynch.

ah here we go.

So basically he put his vote on Rels with "let's see what Rels says so i can decide if i keep my vote on him or not", right?

[outoforder]

I mean because he still votes Aubrey pretty easily....

[Rels]

OOO are you working on the idea that I'm scum; Hawk is my partner; and he voted me over Hapa ?

[outoforder]

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

Actually i think this quote most likely proves Hawk knows Hapa is town.

[cassielle]

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

Actually i think this quote most likely proves Hawk knows Hapa is town.

shit

sounds legit actually yeah

[outoforder]

OOO are you working on the idea that I'm scum; Hawk is my partner; and he voted me over Hapa ?

Yeah why not? You weren't gonna get lynched anyways and when your wagon gained some traction he was quite happy to put his vote elsewhere. I don't see the problem in how his voting cannot make you mafia.