Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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sup
i think ooo is town but im still catching up off and on, dont got any other reads yet
got half of D1 left and its a small topic so im gonna take it slow
if you want me to take a stance on something thats happened already ASAP gimme a post link and ill do that for you
or like tell me "ISO THIS PUNK" or somethin idk-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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also this post is full of pointless shadethrowing, in bold, for not wanting to play silly games with them in place of getting AI contentIn post 562, Aubrey wrote:Well that sure killed the funny over dramatic story I had planed out.You're no longer of any interest to me.Your slot isn't much to talk about either.It'll be more interesting once you get caught up and engage with the town. ps"you might consider catching up faster than slower.bestie"
someone who townreads aubrey, i would like you to defend this behavior
ftr idc about aubrey defending it to me because afaiac thats always going to be NAI
defending it to people who already townread them is more likely to give me something i can build a good read on-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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so no one wants me to take a stance on specific things that have happened in the game thus far?
what is this
no one had an epic slot v slot showdown yet?
there havent been any coordinated pushes?
no one has had a massive lapse of reason and damn-near scumclaimed then waffled about it for three pages of vitriol before the heat died down from lack of activity?
im disappointed in you all, especially you
yes, you
the person reading this
even if you arent playing
seriously tho where is towns vigor? why is no one begging for a chance to drop their case for scumreading some slot or another on the lady replacing in who is practically asking for it? why isn't there a line of people trying to convince me to get on their vanity wagon?
explain why the gamestate is like this, someone, anyone-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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readslist based on a light read under conditions of sleep deprivation
ooo town
doomfeathers town
hawk townie
aubrey nulltown
havingfitz null
kop null
kidamn null
rels nullscum
creature scummy
moogin scum
hapa scum
im not voting yet however
first i want people to defend their votes to me
and if theyre on a vanity wagon i also want them to GET REALLY LOUD about that damned wagon because just sitting your vote on someone without pushing the slot has absolutely no point
except i guess for coasting scum because they can hide among all the townies also engaging in the bad behavior but w/e
arguably tho lurking on a vanity wagon is equivalent to avoiding playing the game and that makes me want to shriek like a banshee at passing cars tbh-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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actually on further consideration the banshee shrieks are more about the weirdness i been soaking my brain in all morning
but it still makes me want to do it and if a mafia game makes me want to go and have FUN™ in some other way that is a bad thing. a very bad thing indeed, as the records of the tunguska event attest
FUN™ is no laughing matter folks-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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L-4In post 585, Creature wrote:idk, I'm hesitating to vote hapahauli because I don't want accidental hammers and I'm sorta lazy to count votes.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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creature is not playing his town meta here, and i have first hand experience with it -- this is an unmotivated fluffposting creature definitelyIn post 588, Hawk wrote: Cass I know you said it was a quick skim but can you explain those top 3 scum reads for me?
i dont "do" meta really, but creature's meta is one of those such that breaking it would be like trying to force basic rules of mathematics to change for you
i was sleep deprived and dont really remember my dislike of the moogin slot but i remember i really, really didnt like something i saw. call it a gutread for now
hapa feels like coasting scum, sort of just a tone read, lot of communicating around people and subject dodging-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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ISO inflationIn post 598, Creature wrote:Okay, do you know how I play scum?
which is all i see tbh
you only seriously answered two or three questions-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cant see itIn post 605, Creature wrote:And there's a clear difference between me lurking as scum and me lurking as town because of disinteress.
besides: lets make it interesting then
whats your read on me?-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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why you place your votes in a given place is more telling than reads tbhIn post 609, Aubrey wrote:Hapa is at L3. Kop is at L4. I don't have one in particluar I care more for. Unless something interesting happens, I think these are our two lynch candidates.
VOTE: kop
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Pre edit: I'll give you the rundown of my votes. I originally voted fitz. His opening reminded me of scum trying to seem protown by asking un-important questions. Shortly after he went in VLA. I was unsatisfied and remained on my vote while contributing to the town with my thoughts. Upon his arrival he made a very long and unimpressive attack on me imo. For reasons that I've mentioned I started to doubt my read a bit. I'm still "eh" with him, but I'm in doubt now. Figure I'll wait, and see how he progresses. My next vote was on Hawk. Ultimately it was due to a miscommunication error more than likely. Now my vote is where you see it.
This rundown is only in regards to my votes and not my full set of thoughts and reads. As you finish reading the thread, those will become clear to you.
town thinks about where their votes are, scum just wants a mislynch or (occasionally) to bus, so scum has to make shit up when called on it
meanwhile reads are just as often based on gut as they are on logic or heuristics
this is a good explanation-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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ftr: i never claimed he was going to scumread me for it, i was applying very light (i didnt even vote) pressure and watching the resulting wrigglingIn post 610, doomfeathers wrote:Welcome to the game, casielle! I'd give you suggestions to watch out for, but it's pretty much the whole player list.
I like you already.In post 561, cassielle wrote:i dont do townblocks and i dont do vengeance and i def dont do buddies
talk to me with content not buddying
I could see this from either town or scum. At first I thought it was scummy; I thought it looked as if cassie was letting other people pick her fights for her, letting her out of doing real work. But it could also be risky as scum if asked to analyze a partner, and it would also eliminate the option of just starting a non-viable wagon for the purpose of appearing to be doing something. Sure, she could still do it, but if she has to work on the major wagons as well, it no longer has purpose.In post 563, cassielle wrote:i like slower because i want people to tell me what they want me to take stances on, it tells me how to read /them/ and when i catch up in context im that much stronger of a player
He's obviously just messing around. He's not going to try to get you scumread for that.In post 564, cassielle wrote:
also this post is full of pointless shadethrowing, in bold, for not wanting to play silly games with them in place of getting AI contentIn post 562, Aubrey wrote:Well that sure killed the funny over dramatic story I had planed out.You're no longer of any interest to me.Your slot isn't much to talk about either.It'll be more interesting once you get caught up and engage with the town. ps"you might consider catching up faster than slower.bestie"
someone who townreads aubrey, i would like you to defend this behavior
ftr idc about aubrey defending it to me because afaiac thats always going to be NAI
defending it to people who already townread them is more likely to give me something i can build a good read on
I'd just like to interject that similar reads are not necessarily a basis for being on the same team. Tone and line of reasoning are also important. Yes, I know it's not my argument.In post 570, Aubrey wrote:By all means explain how it was disjointed. Pretty sure my dots were connected. Furthermore I Lovvvve how Hapa is completly fine in your books, yet I'm still scum. Unless you forgot, he had the exact same thoughts as I did, and in a perfect world should still be receiving your suspicions.
it was boring, so i ignored it and moved on, so i could go back to it later if necessary. seems unnecessary now so i got no problem talking about it
scum never clone reads in an AI way in my experience, its way too obvious and too-scummy-to-be-scum doesnt even work with it. town does that "let me just pull someone elses readslist" thing as often as scum does and for broadly similar reasons (not wanting to read, inability to decide wrt certain slots, etc) and no one gets away with it without pressure that scum would rather avoid
scum readslists tend to have obvtown slots agreed on but everything below that is all weird and twisted up into a mess with thin reasoning. they gutread their townleans, focus on slips for their scumreads, and generally just seem to forget that town is ALWAYS scummy, scum is sometimes townie. makes it hard to spot because town does the same thing, but i generally get an uneasy feeling from a scum readslist, like they read a broadly similar game where all the small details got switched around
i didnt like you talking mechanics the way you did but it felt like town flubbing it instead of scum gambiting and your slot's recovered well imo
why is your vote where it is at?-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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thats thin reasoning
1 act (even if it is a consistent one) is not enough to lynchvote someone. pressurevote, ok. but. but, town could easily be in a state where theyre uneasy throwing votes around in case scum push the wagon home on a ML and theyre not confident enough to single out a read and say "this is the one". among other things
im not defending the slot, im saying your vote has poor justification. you should remedy that and build a better case imo... although kop's slot has pretty small amounts of meaningful content to read, so it might not be possible
either way i prefer other wagons for today. for instance i am pretty sure creature is bussing hapa atm: its a classic scum-location on the wagon, a poor push with no attempts at town!Creature's usual laconic wagon pushing, and creature didnt even skim to see nothing had changed since the last vc (just a page ago, 2 pages now) which shows a bit more than simple disinterest (which is itself a light scumtell for Creature anyway)
i want to push the hapa wagon but id rather push the creature wagon for d1 because i think we get more out of letting hapa have rope to lynch himself with d2 atm
and im unconvinced on kop atm, tho i think i could be persuaded to change my mind. either way i dont like that wagon, feels like lynchbait-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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no. feel coasty/lurky, too little for me to grab onto and shake properly, but lurking is NAIIn post 615, doomfeathers wrote:
I've been wagoning Kop and throwing suspicion at havingfitz. Got thoughts on them?In post 578, cassielle wrote:so no one wants me to take a stance on specific things that have happened in the game thus far?
yes got that vibe but that feels like frustrated town not scum to me atm. again open to changing mind but not seeing it yetIn post 615, doomfeathers wrote:
Kop has coasted a lot, but more importantly refuses to vote anyone despite having scolded somebody earlier for not voting suspicions. I'm still trying to figure out his possible motive, but he basically told us to scumread him.In post 582, cassielle wrote:i want people to defend their votes to me
this is one reason why i want him out d1In post 615, doomfeathers wrote:
Wow. That is lazy. No offense.In post 585, Creature wrote:idk, I'm hesitating to vote hapahauli because I don't want accidental hammers and I'm sorta lazy to count votes.
WIFOM, could be arrogant/frustrated town or gambiting/dumb scum, ignoreIn post 615, doomfeathers wrote:
Sweet glory. On one hand, he just implied that, if he's getting lynched, he's probably scum. On the other hand, would scum be so careless as to say that, since they tend to be worried more than townies about how they're perceived. Anyone have thoughts on this?In post 591, hapahauli wrote:I think I've ben mislynched twice in all the years I've played this game. Rels and OoO haven't mislynched me ever in particular, and barely anyone actually has.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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ftr town motivation from hapa in that statement: angry and wants to throw shade at people (sort of indirect ad hom -- "if youre voting me to lynch today you are the dumbest townies i ever played with") to get them off of a ml wagon
bad play but not strictly scummy
scum motivation: hoping town would think scum would never ever say this, not watching their words and flubbing it, same exact motivation as townie one (but with vehemence being due to wincon instead of arrogance)
so yeah ignore that statement its WIFOM at best and NAI at worst-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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i have offsite experience (not a ton but enough) and ive read a lot of games, both in realtime and otherwise
im not an alt, but i am (i guess, in a sense) experienced, i just havent been drowned in site meta much so occasionally i come off the opposite (noob)
i dont usually like pre-flip associatives unless i scumread all slots involved, and then its to say "and which one of these is the best for today", but heres the gist of where that goes:
hapa is active, not making a very good showing for himself, and generally stinks of scumplay
creature is lurky, pushing other folks wagons with no original reasoning, and playing to his scum meta (which most players here seem unaware of)
this means hapa will not be much harder to point at d2, and creature can probably hide among the townies d2, not to mention that a scum slot defending creature d2 could very well push "lurking is nai" (true but irrelevant) and save his slot from the lynch before we recognized what was happening. on the other hand hapa is so widely scumread that i'd bet even bucks his non-creature partner was already on wagon when creature joined (and that both will be on wagon if hes the lynch du jour)
i scumread them both, and creature and hapa have been distancing in a very artificial way (as you yourself noticed) from game start, and hapa is getting the short end of the stick there
this tells me hapa is the designated scumteam scapegoat, and that tells me that creature is the one to take out of the two due to the scumteam thinking hes a stronger player for them -- IF my scumreads are both correct.
however, its important to note, i dont think its incredibly super important of the order. id like creature d1 but if he coasts i dont think town suffers much now that ive pointed at why it would be risky, and hapas the easy lynch with scum quite possibly helping push it. my preference for the creature wagon isnt strong, it just exists-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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this is the most important thing there is to learn about mafiaIn post 620, Aubrey wrote:One of the hardest things to understand is sometimes, if not usually, Town will appear logically a lot worse than scum will. Considering all the above and that nugget of info, you really gotta start thinking about things beyond just black and white logic. I hope that helps.
town is ALWAYS scummy-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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now getting on someones case for bad reasons isnt a bad thing if you know how to do it (i like to think i do)
you just have to make allowances for the fact that you will be SO WRONG more often than not, and get really good at reading peoples tone and actions when you put them through intensive interrogation so that you dont end up tunneling yourself into a corner
also, when to stop pushing is pretty important but i think its secondary to the rest-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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why do you think that hapa is more likely to contribute or self-incriminate?
creature is amazing at scumhunting d2 onward as town -- id sheep town!Creature d2 unquestioningly in fact, and i just dont do that
so why do you think hapa is the better choice here?
i know why /i/ do and that is irrelevant, i want to know why you do-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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well lets be sure about that first yeah? an early end to the day and all -- remember newbie 1769? we should be careful there
what about rels, why is that a townread? i dont get it personally, that slot feels exceedingly, artificially dull to me, which i find to be a sign of scum
scum (and doctors, but thats not a concern in this setup) want you to not read their posts
town wants you to clap them on the back and say how brilliant they are-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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if i doubt your reads its because i havent heard what you have to say about them
or ive sorted them after hearing what you had to say and found it wanting
my doubt is "explain to me why i should believe" not "this is why you are wrong". i give my reasons for my reads to see if you can find a flaw in the reasoning
i know youre a good scumhunter -- my issue is your d1 play, and im trying to help direct it a bit so we get more out of it. this is not the same as casting doubt on you in general
if that is enough to make you disinterested idk man-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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in my experience that tends to be a sign you missed an important AI postIn post 649, Creature wrote:Hmm, I don't know how to explain Rels.
probably something short, earlier in the game, easily lost among quote-walls and rvs crap
could swing either way but would probably be worth rereading the first four posts in rels's ISO-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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instead of throwing shade you should be producing contentIn post 651, hapahauli wrote:You're showing shockingly little interest in conversing with your top scumread, Cassielle.
instead of throwing shade at /me/ you should be trying to start a counterwagon
gl with that though, youre almost certainly being bussed, i dont think well see a counterwagon from your corner gaining any traction-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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gl with that
theres always a reason to bus.
t o w n c r e d
that is in fact the only reason to ever bus and my scumread of Creature (now on a townread) was independent of yours
so "bussing" fits -- it doesnt tell me who to scumread, it tells me which scumread should take precedence, and if that is a bad way to use a pre-flip associative then we all better pack it up town, scum won, theres no way to tell which scum of the three is the best one and we have been defeated
my reason to scumread you was given: subject-dodging and talking around people instead of to them -- which is whats going on here, ill note. now we can add to that a lot of shadethrowing and blatant misrepresentation (refusal to read between the lines for the bussing stuff, refusal to engage subject at hand (looking into Creature's alignment and reads, which is only helpful to town regardless of your read of the slot), talking around what i said to paint it in your favor -- interesting how old reasons also become new reasons, isnt it? -- more focused on defending your own slot than finding scum, OMGUS with the prior as fuel and no actual scummy behavior to go on top)
ill lynch you in good time friend, settle down now-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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i would have (at the time of that statement)In post 655, doomfeathers wrote:
I thought you said you'd rather lynch Creature first.In post 624, cassielle wrote:why do you think that hapa is more likely to contribute or self-incriminate?
creature is amazing at scumhunting d2 onward as town -- id sheep town!Creature d2 unquestioningly in fact, and i just dont do that
so why do you think hapa is the better choice here?
i know why /i/ do and that is irrelevant, i want to know why you do
i ask questions to determine the alignments of multiple slots though, and at that time that question was trying to sort fitz, who i believe to be town now-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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im liking hawk for town tbh
good slot
good rant
if you need someone to bounce things off of, im active when im not sleeping at strange hours or lodged in a Thomas Ligotti novel and i think you and i could curb each others worst tendencies here
honestly tho i want to let the coasters coast a bit because activity, like you said, NAI -- and active scum will destroy town's ability to coordinate in a lurk-heavy game like this one. its more important to find the noise in the active posters and take them out first so its easier for town to coordinate lynches later-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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paranoia is town thoIn post 662, Creature wrote:Oh lol when someone acts like emotions can be easily faked by anyone.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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maybe not easily but i do think anything can in fact be fakedIn post 664, Creature wrote:Though thinking anything can be easily faked is sad. Glad I don't think that.
i have an edge there for emotion for example, i have an mfa in lit -- if i want someone to believe i feel a certain way i can nail that. is it /easy/? no -- but its /possible/ and if its /possible/ then for someone out there it /is/ easy.
so i see where the paranoia there comes from
i think hes just not yet aware of how /strong/ your meta is. i mean, i wasnt either and you remember d3 of newbie 1769? the scum lead me on a merry ride because i was already overly suspicious of everyone talking about your meta. its easy to get taken in by scum who are clever and good at what they do, easy to be taken advantage of, and he just doesnt know yet how you fit into the game
you being more active and focused ought to help though-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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the issue isnt trying to break the game for town, the issue is picking a suboptimal strategy. if scum does it itll be one less obvious than that i think but that makes it more dangerousIn post 665, doomfeathers wrote:
This is one thing I don't get. Why does everybody think discussing theory is scummy? What possible good could scum gain from trying to break the game for town? Experienced townies are going to point out anything that wouldn't work, as evidenced by what came soon after my theory posts.In post 612, cassielle wrote:i didnt like you talking mechanics the way you did but it felt like town flubbing it instead of scum gambiting and your slot's recovered well imo
and the issue isnt discussing theory/strategy either -- its talking about night actions. thats the scum playing field to begin with, and town talking about night actions like "arming your 1-shot pgo" is giving info to the enemy. best that everyone uses their own personal heuristics -- tho if everyone arms n1 ill be extremely disappointed
appearance-focused gameplay with no real scumhunting to speak of seems to be order of the day over there yeah. why i have no problem letting him coast, he'll practically put the noose on himselfIn post 665, doomfeathers wrote:
I find it hard to remember what you have posted. You've spent a lot of time arguing over whether people should be scumreading you even when there aren't that many. You look to me as if you could easily be scum trying to avoid doing any real scumhunting work. I'll check you over later to see whether my impression looks right to me.In post 646, hapahauli wrote:This is your daily reminder that no one actually has reasons to call me mafia.
it is my understanding that this doubting comment is personal between me and creature (cant talk about it though)In post 665, doomfeathers wrote:Seriously? If you have a problem with people doubting your reads, why are you playing Mafia? I know Creature made some townie-looking posts just previous, but this just looks like a poor excuse to do less work. Creature is scummy.
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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no of course notIn post 668, Creature wrote:If everybody didn't take anything towny serious because "anything could be faked", would mafia be fun?
check the flip side tho -- town is always scummy -- so if you policy lynch every thing that "only scum does" youll lose every game you play
the key is calculated risk-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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more i think about this more i like hawk for townIn post 669, Hawk wrote:Okay I guess that's fine. I don't really like it but I guess that's fine. The only thing I like about creatures d1 play so far is the fact that he keeps laying out townreads makes him really easy to ISO so I think if we flip scum at some point and creatures alive it'll be easy confirm him one way or the other based off that.
ALSO I LEFT OFF DOOM! MY GUT SAYS SCUM, but idk why... Also I haven't had much sleep so forgive me if my posts are shit today guys. New baby and all. lol
Pedit: I guess easily is a strong word to use there. It may take more effort based off the person. I'm just saying it's easier in forum Mafia than IRL (were I play more) because you can take a step back from replying right away if you have too.
Ppedit: Damnit Doom. Ignoring my gut a bit here cause it's probably just hungry.
Creature looks scummy to me too but like I said I don't want to push him just because of activity and his reasons being easy to fake.
Theory talk can be scummy because a lot of Theory talk in games where there is good Balance D1 is WIFOM. It's why in Game Theory you have games with 0-sum.
PPPEdit: I will reread later. Tired. Have to Work. Be on later guys and gals.
its excusing the bad posts but its also feeling self-deprecating about messing them up in the first place
the talk about creature locking himself into associatives as scum is good stuff
doomfeathers DOES feel like scum at a gutread level but its a lot of tiny crap -- the theory talk, bad (but NOT nonexistent, NAI or false) reasoning on reads, etc. stuff thats more likely to be townie lynchbait than scum (though doomfeathers has also done a really good job of humanizing his slot and putting his thought processes on the table, which helps him avoid being easy lynchbait too -- it just feels town when you give it a good deep look tbh)
still scumreading hawk, creature?-
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^townie^In post 676, doomfeathers wrote:Let it hereby be known that I would vote hapahauli at this point if I didn't want to keep the day going for a while yet.
yeah i am aware of the daytalk thing, which is why i was talking bussing. hapa is the chosen sacrifice so we want to find who the people benefitting from it are.
reason i cant talk about the doubting thing is [redacted]. if i am able to talk about it in the post-game ill gladly clear it up for you. suffice to say: site rules, not me trying to hide info-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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loooots moreIn post 679, havingfitz wrote:
That's an easy town cred comment scum could make. I don't think Doom is scum but I hope there's more to him than that for your read.In post 677, cassielle wrote:
^townie^In post 676, doomfeathers wrote:Let it hereby be known that I would vote hapahauli at this point if I didn't want to keep the day going for a while yet.
and yeah its an easy /statement/ to make, but its something i can call him on. he bolded it, so its easy to find and memorable in his ISO -- and long days are bad for scum as a general rule. he cant decide to lolhammer an opportune wagon at an early point in a dayphase now without getting massive scumreads all over the place.
now, yes, he could still end up being scum. but that particular statement, at that time and in that way, combined with my existing townread -- its strongly indicative. and if he /is/ scum, hes closed one important door on himself
followup statements from other slots along the same lines are not so. in fact, someone taking the opportunity to "prove a point" or "emphatically agree" now would be acting scummy, imo-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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jfc
ok, when i say a "tone thing" -- im not saying "gutread", im saying "the logic hes using and the things hes doing are fine on their own, but they dont add up with what im seeing"
e.g. i cant point out logical flaws, people who are robots only convinced by logical flaws will be disappointed (and those people exist, i assure you all)
and hes definitely a player focused on appearances -- tho the case vs kidamn is C O N V I N C I N G -- and scum care more about how they look than town, always
(town is almost always going to ML, so they dont mind being the sacrificial lamb if they think it will get everyone to refocus their efforts elsewhere. scum cant afford to be a lynch target unless theyre being bussed and even then its bad)
in this case -- scum want to derail wagons that start on them, not start counterwagons, which is what hapa is doing
(again tho, kidamn is good. also a lurker tho, so im feeling like hes lynchbait and even if he is scum, i want to focus on active players who are causing bad signal first)
effectively, the only town-read i can have on hapa atm would rely on him being a noob. hes not -- joindate 2013.
or really really badtown, which doesnt seem to be the case due to slots that know him talking about him being a good player
or...
ok. im not feeling like nows quite the time to build a detailed wallpost case on him quite yet, i have other things i want to look at first
im spotting things that make me very interested in a great many people
and i think im seeing a third town narrative for hapa that i want to explore
one things for sure, the game activity-spiked like a mofo since ive joined and shaken things up
and that means i am sorting people easily now -- everyone to post in the last two pages except one slot in particular, i have a read on now-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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im not doing what you think im doingIn post 750, Creature wrote:Keep town solid, scum likes town in gas state. Liquid state is also acceptable for them.
also im certain youre town!creature now-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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thats the answer i wantIn post 756, Creature wrote:Who's scum pocketing me?
your answer, not mine
im not trying to convince you of anything, i just want you to give me information to work with-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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ill accept that for now creature, but i still want more people to talk about it from their pov
also if you townread me, i townread you atm so that "could" be pocketing
i dont think it is, at all, obviously, but yes, it could be
the real test is "why am i townreading this person? is there a reason for this townread?"
if, when it boils down to it, it feels like theyre following a checklist of things you said townpinged you in the thread as you say them, you are probably being pocketed (and it is unlikely to be town)
scum are rarely that obvious, but they flub it every so often-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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i like this votecount. this is a MUCH BETTER state of affairs for town
look: we have 1 (1!!!!!) vanity wagon
when i joined there were /6/
we can afford to poke at townblocks a little bit creature. town is listening to one another
people are even willing to work with their scumreads a bit: this is a Good Thing and keeping the town watchful is also a Good Thing.
also the number of wagons and wagon makeup tells me that no scum are on kop's wagon. anyone have any theories as to why that is?
keep it coming with the talk about whos pocketing you. dont need to start scumreading them or w/e, in fact id rather you didnt, i just want to see who each of you pick and why-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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im not asking thatIn post 770, hapahauli wrote:Eh. Reading through Cassy's filter, it seems like I was just tilted and misrepping her really hard. I'm going to mulligan on that read and try again tomorrow.
If you're asking which of my town-reads have the greatest margin for error, probably Creature/Fitz/Kop. But you're asking me to discredit my own analysis of the game which doesn't really accomplish much for me or anyone else.In post 745, cassielle wrote:@HAPA
what if i tell you you have been pocketed and one or two of your townreads are scum
who do you pick
im looking for something, see my prior post-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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no. i honestly dont have a clue why it would be the case and it doesnt sit right -- the scum would want to be on the top two wagons, but i dont see scum being in (doomfeathers,Aubrey,Hawk)In post 772, doomfeathers wrote:
I'd say because Kop is scum, but you're not scumreading him, so that's not going to be your answer. Are they pocketing him?In post 768, cassielle wrote:also the number of wagons and wagon makeup tells me that no scum are on kop's wagon. anyone have any theories as to why that is?
i do see scum being in (rels,hapa) and i am absolutely 100% certain theres scum in hapa's wagon
so something is strange. i would be willing to push kops wagon if hapa makes a good (really good) showing in the near future. the "tipping point" will certainly be instructive-
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naked votes are never pro-town
theyre usually FROM town (which means scum can use towns poor behavior as a smokescreen there) but theyre bad town play (for that precise reason)
hawk: who is the scum lurking in your townreads?
not about who you distrust but who you cant understand why you trust them ftr
im not asking you to scumread them either, im trying to paint a picture in my head-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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thinking. im gonna townread kop for now, i have Reasons to believe hes town. not gonna go into them, scum can abuse the talk to make us start ML-tunneling a bunch of people before we realize whats happening
suffice to say: this isnt ironclad. this is subject to change. but i dont think hes where focus should be atm, and i think eyes should turn in other directions. 3 scum, we can come back to him later on if necessary
i want to have fitz give a wallpost if he is so inclined
and i want to hear from kidamn, and OOO too. big and content heavy, short on quotes if you please
and i think i want to hear more from hawk and aubrey because theyve said a lot but i like what they have to say and i want opinions from them
and im going to put this out there rn: afaiac hapa is todays lynch until and /unless/ we find someone better. when the deadline draws near we jump ship onto hapa and kill the slot unless someone better comes to hand
why?
1: town not using their lynch is dangerously close to gamethrowing, no-lynch is a special case scenario that has little to no utility d1, and no utility at all d1 with this setup
2: agreeing on a deadline lynch AT THE DEADLINE is almost always a mislynch (people panic with the deadline looming and dont want to rock the boat and go into night without a lynch, scum take advantage)
3: hapa is widely scumread with a lot of support for his wagon
4: we can still end up finding a better target
5: i think that hapa flipping green would still be highly indicative of the actual scumteam in the unlikely situation that it does occur
(in the event it does happen,THIS POST IS THE CUT OFF, nothing later than this will be useful for finding the scum leading that wagon, daytalk is the worst.)
6: most importantly, i dont think anyone else's wagon will get large amounts of sufficiently logical support short of someone losing their damn mind before EOD, which will prob be a mislynch if it happens-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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imo hapa should be the /agreed upon/ lynch at EOD for now because his wagon already has support and hes widely scumread
d1 is the most dangerous time to let yourself get swayed last minute onto another wagon, so i prefer to agree on a lynch before deadline and punch the wagon home last minute so theres not a huge risk of ml bait pushed by scum making the town lose focus
d2+ needs no such foolishness fortunately, you get new tools like associatives that diminish the necessity at that point
ftr im /preeeetty/ sure that kop is town. id rather let that slot go for today
my backup wagon would be kidamn atm, mooginsoosy is also in my scumreads but theres too little content for me to feel confident, and hawk is Useful-
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ahhhIn post 802, doomfeathers wrote:I'm not necessarily scumreading him. It's a pressure vote, but one I'm willing to stand behind.
thats fair then
you should always follow up a pressure vote with directed questions though-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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thought about it a bit
VOTE: KidAmn
hapa is an easily agreed upon EOD lynch, so i dont feel nervous about putting pressure in other places. well either have towns focus move to another easily-agreed upon slot or we will not. either way, it wont be hard to get a lynch today
kidamn has gone from extremely invested to completely uninvested very quickly with no "warning signs" popping up. this feels like scum trying to redirect, to me. it doesnt feel like townie apathy, as i look into it (esp in context) -- theres missing signs, the whole "back off" thing isnt visible in posts prior. theres townie reasoning, but with daytalk, thats less meaningful because you can always go "hey does this look like obvtown?" in the scum pt
kidamn has the /potential/ (if town) to be a pretty damned good pro-town force. i would rather not ML him but im not seeing the town reasoning. if he is town, as the wagon fills up he needs to get on top of this game and start being the pro-town player he can be. pressurevoting is an appropriate way to lean on the slot
kidamn's apathy appears (AFAICT) to stem from not being able to push a single scumread -- when there are 3 scum in the game -- without resistance from two other slots interfering
there are very rare cases where you can benefit from digging your heels in and going full lockdown on who you want to deal with -- this isnt one of those cases. due to the setup, any scumlynch is a good scumlynch here (they're all goons), and while you can have /preferences/ you should be willing and able to point at and push a diff scumread if your preferred wagon stalls.
but kidamn is letting two players destroy his case instead of trying to push outside of their circle (and thereby speak to a large group of people who do agree with him)
this says to me that kidamn wants to ml a pro-town player early while the paranoia is rampant and before town can swing associatives, VCA and NKA into play
or that kidamn wants to bus a scum player early and fast for towncred and is feeling nervous/frustrated that townies are derailing that wagon
...or that kidamn is town who doesnt realize how anti-town hes acting -- so heres a wakeup call: dont hit the snooze button, get the hell up
in general i think that kidamn has more of a chance to save himself from the d1 lynch than hapa, due to reading like frustrated town in large part -- pressure and reiterating that i think kidamn can pull himself out of this hole hammers in the idea that he needs to bring his town game to the table ASAP. this is ultimately pro-town because hes an active player who can infodump with the best of them, and i dont think he can smoothly recover from the obvious scumplay if he is actually scum
but if he doesnt step up to the plate, we can only assume that, at best, hes town actively working against his wincon, and at worst, hes scum who took the demotivated townie charade too far-
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