Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[outoforder]

He didnt really bus. That was not a hard bus. Look at the votecounts and the time/reason he unvoted. Je also never gor back to the case.

I mean if you say he bussed hapa on d1 then i did too definitely lol.

[BlackVoid]

In 908, he argues against the Rels wagon and strongly takes a stance saying he won't join it. He also townreads KidAmn and Kop (two other potential wagons) and scumreads Creature, Cass, Hap, and you (outoforder). As seen in the VC next post (909), with the stances he's taken, he pretty much set himself up to vote Hap as none of his other scumreads are viable. Why would he argue against a Rels wagon when it was seemingly the only alternative to his buddy Hap?

[outoforder]

Because its like 1.5 weeks left in the phase and wwe arent gonna lynch anyways at that time. Then he still vptes aubrey which he later om calls "derailing hapa wagon".

[BlackVoid]

That's not 1.5 weeks, that's 2.5 days. That's on Feb 27th 1:42 PM. Deadline was on Mar 1st 11:00 PM.

[Creature]

Ugh, I guess the general deadline should be shorted to 7 days because otherwise players will keep derailing the game because "there's much time left".

[outoforder]

Fitz unvotes feb 25yh sat. Thats almost a week left in the phase.

[outoforder]

What i am saying is later when you vote for aubrey thats okay for him. He even follows the vote. When you vote for hawk he suddenly calls you derailing the hapa wagon into aubrey + hawk. Why werent you derailing already when you voted for aubrey?

Even i fucking unvoted hapa later than fitz did... just ftr.

[BlackVoid]

I'm not talking about when he unvoted. I'm talking about the part where he speaks out against the Rels' wagon when it was the only alternative to Hap with less than 2.5 days remaining in the day phase. That pretty much locks him into voting Hap unless unforseen events occur (like me making a hard push on Aubrey). But you are right in that Fitz delays voting Hap a lot though both D1 and D2 so I'll look into it again.

[outoforder]

Did he townread rels? If he did then it doesnt matter since he just gives himself away if he suddenly votes for his townread, right?

Look i am not saying that is something that makes him mafia. I am saying it doesnt make him town since i can also see a possible mafia motivation in that.

[BlackVoid]

Fitz's posts were actually pretty consistent. He was townreading Hawk and scumleaning Aubrey so he was okay with an Aubrey lynch but not with a Hawk one. That worldview makes sense for a town-Fitz to have. Fitz also was okay with a Hap lynch but not with a Rels lynch which also makes sense. The consistent theme here is that Fitz is defending people he was reading as town and being okay with lynching non-townreads. Nothing in that betrays that he's going out of his way to defend scum and mislynch town. He originally townread Hawk because of Hawk's walls - the same ones I initially townread him for, so I don't even find the original Hawk townread to be suspicious in the first place. Now, if he was town and townread Hawk, he obviously wouldn't be voting him and would be looking elsewhere.

[BlackVoid]

If Fitz was mafia, he could have just not said anything and let town lynch Rels instead of speaking out against the wagon. The reason I don't see mafia motivation is that by discouraging the Rels' wagon, he's making it more likely that momentum swings back to Hap and therefore lose a buddy.

[BlackVoid]

@outoforder - how confident are you in Rels being town? I'd also like to know your thoughts on the doom/Momo slot. I have a hard time seeing Fitz as scum and those are the two slots I have some paranoia on so if you are town, I'd love to get your thoughts there.

[outoforder]

Rels is always town. No way he is mafia with Hapa.
I am trying to ask something from momom which would give me a better read on him. Doom looked town to me.

[cassielle]

creature/bv, talk to me about doom/momo because i dont get it

[BlackVoid]

Mine comes down to the fact that Doom's treatment of the Hap wagon was somewhat similar to Hawk's. He voted ounterwagons to Hap while calling Hap scum. See 678 and 807.

[outoforder]

I believe Rels never shoots Kop here and he has consistently scumreading Hapa and ACTUALLY pushed his lynch. I have my theory on why Kop was killed and Rels doesnt fit there as mafia.

[outoforder]

I am gonna look at those posts in context when i get off work. Posting on phone is already pain in the ass. I also wanna confirm something because i am 90% sure there is a post where fitz showed some doubt on Hapa lynch after unvoting. I am gonna find that too.

BV can you be around ~ 7:30 am cest?

[BlackVoid]

So, around seven hours from now which would be around 10:30 PM PST? Sure.

[outoforder]

Good. Lets talk then more. I will be around all my night but i am working a double shift unexpectedly and i have like 5min free 5 min work so i cant really focus on reading properly.

[outoforder]

Actually i am prolly home 9:30pm pst so one hour earlier.

[cassielle]

Mine comes down to the fact that Doom's treatment of the Hap wagon was somewhat similar to Hawk's. He voted ounterwagons to Hap while calling Hap scum. See 678 and 807.

i literally did the same thing, and we cant both be scum
that doesnt feel good enough to me

[outoforder]

Without inspecting further at this point i agree with Cass here. I did the same thing. What gave me a pause was that everyone basically called Hapa scum and noone else was being pushed. Thats usually an indication of the lynch target being town. Unless it can be clearly seen Hapa was doom's top scumread i dont think that means much.

[BlackVoid]

Yeah, I got through doom's ISO and changed my mind. There are so many newb-towntells there I'm reasonably sure the slot is town.

Isn't there any way we can get momo force-replaced out? It seems really shitty of him to replace into a game that people are taking seriously and decide to not read and basically troll.

[Tenshii]

Votecount 3.2

[L-4] havingfitz - momo
[L-4] momo - KidAmn

Not voting: outoforder, Rels, BlackVoid, havingfitz, cassielle, Creature

With 8 alive, a majority vote is decided with 5 players.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-03-27 10:45:00)

V/LA for the next couple of days

[starting from Mon, Mar 13]

while my Internet provider botches migrating me to a less shitty provider

[BlackVoid]

Momo is replacing into more games while ignoring this one. I'm not even sure what to do at this point with regard to that slot. This is frustrating.