Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]
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Creature Solve This Game
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Creature Solve This Game
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In post 23, Creature wrote:Aubrey's giving the most scum impression so far.In post 168, Creature wrote:outoforder, Rels, doomfeathers.
Let's fuse together to powertown this game.In post 186, Creature wrote:Aubrey looks like low-hanging scum. And he isn't low-hanging as town.In post 187, Creature wrote:doomfeathers is probably his typical Open 658.Sigh-
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Creature Solve This Game
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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Creature Solve This Game
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Creature Solve This Game
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cant see itIn post 605, Creature wrote:And there's a clear difference between me lurking as scum and me lurking as town because of disinteress.
besides: lets make it interesting then
whats your read on me?-
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Aubrey Mafia Scum
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To be blunt, I wouldn't shed a tear if Creature got lynched as of right now. the lurking is bad for town. The disinterest is bad for town. His attempts at figuring out the game aren't that great imo. It's just a boring slot. Glad he likes me, but...get a grip and actually care dude. Both he and Kop are just enigmas to me.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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Aubrey Mafia Scum
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Hapa is at L3. Kop is at L4. I don't have one in particluar I care more for. Unless something interesting happens, I think these are our two lynch candidates.
VOTE: kop
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Pre edit: I'll give you the rundown of my votes. I originally voted fitz. His opening reminded me of scum trying to seem protown by asking un-important questions. Shortly after he went in VLA. I was unsatisfied and remained on my vote while contributing to the town with my thoughts. Upon his arrival he made a very long and unimpressive attack on me imo. For reasons that I've mentioned I started to doubt my read a bit. I'm still "eh" with him, but I'm in doubt now. Figure I'll wait, and see how he progresses. My next vote was on Hawk. Ultimately it was due to a miscommunication error more than likely. Now my vote is where you see it.
This rundown is only in regards to my votes and not my full set of thoughts and reads. As you finish reading the thread, those will become clear to you.-
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doomfeathers Goon
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Welcome to the game, casielle! I'd give you suggestions to watch out for, but it's pretty much the whole player list.
I like you already.In post 561, cassielle wrote:i dont do townblocks and i dont do vengeance and i def dont do buddies
talk to me with content not buddying
I could see this from either town or scum. At first I thought it was scummy; I thought it looked as if cassie was letting other people pick her fights for her, letting her out of doing real work. But it could also be risky as scum if asked to analyze a partner, and it would also eliminate the option of just starting a non-viable wagon for the purpose of appearing to be doing something. Sure, she could still do it, but if she has to work on the major wagons as well, it no longer has purpose.In post 563, cassielle wrote:i like slower because i want people to tell me what they want me to take stances on, it tells me how to read /them/ and when i catch up in context im that much stronger of a player
He's obviously just messing around. He's not going to try to get you scumread for that.In post 564, cassielle wrote:
also this post is full of pointless shadethrowing, in bold, for not wanting to play silly games with them in place of getting AI contentIn post 562, Aubrey wrote:Well that sure killed the funny over dramatic story I had planed out.You're no longer of any interest to me.Your slot isn't much to talk about either.It'll be more interesting once you get caught up and engage with the town. ps"you might consider catching up faster than slower.bestie"
someone who townreads aubrey, i would like you to defend this behavior
ftr idc about aubrey defending it to me because afaiac thats always going to be NAI
defending it to people who already townread them is more likely to give me something i can build a good read on
I'd just like to interject that similar reads are not necessarily a basis for being on the same team. Tone and line of reasoning are also important. Yes, I know it's not my argument.In post 570, Aubrey wrote:By all means explain how it was disjointed. Pretty sure my dots were connected. Furthermore I Lovvvve how Hapa is completly fine in your books, yet I'm still scum. Unless you forgot, he had the exact same thoughts as I did, and in a perfect world should still be receiving your suspicions.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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why you place your votes in a given place is more telling than reads tbhIn post 609, Aubrey wrote:Hapa is at L3. Kop is at L4. I don't have one in particluar I care more for. Unless something interesting happens, I think these are our two lynch candidates.
VOTE: kop
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Pre edit: I'll give you the rundown of my votes. I originally voted fitz. His opening reminded me of scum trying to seem protown by asking un-important questions. Shortly after he went in VLA. I was unsatisfied and remained on my vote while contributing to the town with my thoughts. Upon his arrival he made a very long and unimpressive attack on me imo. For reasons that I've mentioned I started to doubt my read a bit. I'm still "eh" with him, but I'm in doubt now. Figure I'll wait, and see how he progresses. My next vote was on Hawk. Ultimately it was due to a miscommunication error more than likely. Now my vote is where you see it.
This rundown is only in regards to my votes and not my full set of thoughts and reads. As you finish reading the thread, those will become clear to you.
town thinks about where their votes are, scum just wants a mislynch or (occasionally) to bus, so scum has to make shit up when called on it
meanwhile reads are just as often based on gut as they are on logic or heuristics
this is a good explanation-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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ftr: i never claimed he was going to scumread me for it, i was applying very light (i didnt even vote) pressure and watching the resulting wrigglingIn post 610, doomfeathers wrote:Welcome to the game, casielle! I'd give you suggestions to watch out for, but it's pretty much the whole player list.
I like you already.In post 561, cassielle wrote:i dont do townblocks and i dont do vengeance and i def dont do buddies
talk to me with content not buddying
I could see this from either town or scum. At first I thought it was scummy; I thought it looked as if cassie was letting other people pick her fights for her, letting her out of doing real work. But it could also be risky as scum if asked to analyze a partner, and it would also eliminate the option of just starting a non-viable wagon for the purpose of appearing to be doing something. Sure, she could still do it, but if she has to work on the major wagons as well, it no longer has purpose.In post 563, cassielle wrote:i like slower because i want people to tell me what they want me to take stances on, it tells me how to read /them/ and when i catch up in context im that much stronger of a player
He's obviously just messing around. He's not going to try to get you scumread for that.In post 564, cassielle wrote:
also this post is full of pointless shadethrowing, in bold, for not wanting to play silly games with them in place of getting AI contentIn post 562, Aubrey wrote:Well that sure killed the funny over dramatic story I had planed out.You're no longer of any interest to me.Your slot isn't much to talk about either.It'll be more interesting once you get caught up and engage with the town. ps"you might consider catching up faster than slower.bestie"
someone who townreads aubrey, i would like you to defend this behavior
ftr idc about aubrey defending it to me because afaiac thats always going to be NAI
defending it to people who already townread them is more likely to give me something i can build a good read on
I'd just like to interject that similar reads are not necessarily a basis for being on the same team. Tone and line of reasoning are also important. Yes, I know it's not my argument.In post 570, Aubrey wrote:By all means explain how it was disjointed. Pretty sure my dots were connected. Furthermore I Lovvvve how Hapa is completly fine in your books, yet I'm still scum. Unless you forgot, he had the exact same thoughts as I did, and in a perfect world should still be receiving your suspicions.
it was boring, so i ignored it and moved on, so i could go back to it later if necessary. seems unnecessary now so i got no problem talking about it
scum never clone reads in an AI way in my experience, its way too obvious and too-scummy-to-be-scum doesnt even work with it. town does that "let me just pull someone elses readslist" thing as often as scum does and for broadly similar reasons (not wanting to read, inability to decide wrt certain slots, etc) and no one gets away with it without pressure that scum would rather avoid
scum readslists tend to have obvtown slots agreed on but everything below that is all weird and twisted up into a mess with thin reasoning. they gutread their townleans, focus on slips for their scumreads, and generally just seem to forget that town is ALWAYS scummy, scum is sometimes townie. makes it hard to spot because town does the same thing, but i generally get an uneasy feeling from a scum readslist, like they read a broadly similar game where all the small details got switched around
i didnt like you talking mechanics the way you did but it felt like town flubbing it instead of scum gambiting and your slot's recovered well imo
why is your vote where it is at?-
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doomfeathers Goon
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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thats thin reasoning
1 act (even if it is a consistent one) is not enough to lynchvote someone. pressurevote, ok. but. but, town could easily be in a state where theyre uneasy throwing votes around in case scum push the wagon home on a ML and theyre not confident enough to single out a read and say "this is the one". among other things
im not defending the slot, im saying your vote has poor justification. you should remedy that and build a better case imo... although kop's slot has pretty small amounts of meaningful content to read, so it might not be possible
either way i prefer other wagons for today. for instance i am pretty sure creature is bussing hapa atm: its a classic scum-location on the wagon, a poor push with no attempts at town!Creature's usual laconic wagon pushing, and creature didnt even skim to see nothing had changed since the last vc (just a page ago, 2 pages now) which shows a bit more than simple disinterest (which is itself a light scumtell for Creature anyway)
i want to push the hapa wagon but id rather push the creature wagon for d1 because i think we get more out of letting hapa have rope to lynch himself with d2 atm
and im unconvinced on kop atm, tho i think i could be persuaded to change my mind. either way i dont like that wagon, feels like lynchbait-
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doomfeathers Goon
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I've been wagoning Kop and throwing suspicion at havingfitz. Got thoughts on them?In post 578, cassielle wrote:so no one wants me to take a stance on specific things that have happened in the game thus far?
Kop has coasted a lot, but more importantly refuses to vote anyone despite having scolded somebody earlier for not voting suspicions. I'm still trying to figure out his possible motive, but he basically told us to scumread him.In post 582, cassielle wrote:i want people to defend their votes to me
Wow. That is lazy. No offense.In post 585, Creature wrote:idk, I'm hesitating to vote hapahauli because I don't want accidental hammers and I'm sorta lazy to count votes.
Sweet glory. On one hand, he just implied that, if he's getting lynched, he's probably scum. On the other hand, would scum be so careless as to say that, since they tend to be worried more than townies about how they're perceived. Anyone have thoughts on this?In post 591, hapahauli wrote:I think I've ben mislynched twice in all the years I've played this game. Rels and OoO haven't mislynched me ever in particular, and barely anyone actually has.
Huh. I have no idea what else to look for. Could you give me some idea?In post 595, Aubrey wrote:Let's get real. Day 1's are usually shit and town gets lynched. Mostly because people come at this game looking for some super logical explanation.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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no. feel coasty/lurky, too little for me to grab onto and shake properly, but lurking is NAIIn post 615, doomfeathers wrote:
I've been wagoning Kop and throwing suspicion at havingfitz. Got thoughts on them?In post 578, cassielle wrote:so no one wants me to take a stance on specific things that have happened in the game thus far?
yes got that vibe but that feels like frustrated town not scum to me atm. again open to changing mind but not seeing it yetIn post 615, doomfeathers wrote:
Kop has coasted a lot, but more importantly refuses to vote anyone despite having scolded somebody earlier for not voting suspicions. I'm still trying to figure out his possible motive, but he basically told us to scumread him.In post 582, cassielle wrote:i want people to defend their votes to me
this is one reason why i want him out d1In post 615, doomfeathers wrote:
Wow. That is lazy. No offense.In post 585, Creature wrote:idk, I'm hesitating to vote hapahauli because I don't want accidental hammers and I'm sorta lazy to count votes.
WIFOM, could be arrogant/frustrated town or gambiting/dumb scum, ignoreIn post 615, doomfeathers wrote:
Sweet glory. On one hand, he just implied that, if he's getting lynched, he's probably scum. On the other hand, would scum be so careless as to say that, since they tend to be worried more than townies about how they're perceived. Anyone have thoughts on this?In post 591, hapahauli wrote:I think I've ben mislynched twice in all the years I've played this game. Rels and OoO haven't mislynched me ever in particular, and barely anyone actually has.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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ftr town motivation from hapa in that statement: angry and wants to throw shade at people (sort of indirect ad hom -- "if youre voting me to lynch today you are the dumbest townies i ever played with") to get them off of a ml wagon
bad play but not strictly scummy
scum motivation: hoping town would think scum would never ever say this, not watching their words and flubbing it, same exact motivation as townie one (but with vehemence being due to wincon instead of arrogance)
so yeah ignore that statement its WIFOM at best and NAI at worst-
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doomfeathers Goon
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Interesting.
You talk as one experienced. You have posted in six threads, five of which were games, and only one of which was a queue. Are you an alt?
I'll rethink my case on Kop, but I'm not willing to switch my vote yet.
@Kop: Why do you refuse to vote?
Hm. It appears from 207 that hapa was investigating fitz while fitz was investigating Creature. Hapa interacted very little with Creature at first, just posting very briefly to defend himself against Creature's scumread on him in 275. He scumread KidAmn in what could, I suppose, be interpreted as chainsaw defense in 452, and later townread Creature in 455. He got (rather unreasonably, I thought) rather upset with Aubrey over the same case with KidAmn vs. Creature in 590, then took a shot at Creature for not explaining his vote on hapa in 578; now that I notice it, Creature hasn't stated any reason to scumread hapahauli except in 281 where he said hapa wasn't "showing his potential". I can see Creature bussing hapahauli.In post 614, cassielle wrote:either way i prefer other wagons for today. for instance i am pretty sure creature is bussing hapa atm: its a classic scum-location on the wagon, a poor push with no attempts at town!Creature's usual laconic wagon pushing, and creature didnt even skim to see nothing had changed since the last vc (just a page ago, 2 pages now) which shows a bit more than simple disinterest (which is itself a light scumtell for Creature anyway)
i want to push the hapa wagon but id rather push the creature wagon for d1 because i think we get more out of letting hapa have rope to lynch himself with d2 atm
and im unconvinced on kop atm, tho i think i could be persuaded to change my mind. either way i dont like that wagon, feels like lynchbait
I don't know why, but cass's posting seems townish to me.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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i have offsite experience (not a ton but enough) and ive read a lot of games, both in realtime and otherwise
im not an alt, but i am (i guess, in a sense) experienced, i just havent been drowned in site meta much so occasionally i come off the opposite (noob)
i dont usually like pre-flip associatives unless i scumread all slots involved, and then its to say "and which one of these is the best for today", but heres the gist of where that goes:
hapa is active, not making a very good showing for himself, and generally stinks of scumplay
creature is lurky, pushing other folks wagons with no original reasoning, and playing to his scum meta (which most players here seem unaware of)
this means hapa will not be much harder to point at d2, and creature can probably hide among the townies d2, not to mention that a scum slot defending creature d2 could very well push "lurking is nai" (true but irrelevant) and save his slot from the lynch before we recognized what was happening. on the other hand hapa is so widely scumread that i'd bet even bucks his non-creature partner was already on wagon when creature joined (and that both will be on wagon if hes the lynch du jour)
i scumread them both, and creature and hapa have been distancing in a very artificial way (as you yourself noticed) from game start, and hapa is getting the short end of the stick there
this tells me hapa is the designated scumteam scapegoat, and that tells me that creature is the one to take out of the two due to the scumteam thinking hes a stronger player for them -- IF my scumreads are both correct.
however, its important to note, i dont think its incredibly super important of the order. id like creature d1 but if he coasts i dont think town suffers much now that ive pointed at why it would be risky, and hapas the easy lynch with scum quite possibly helping push it. my preference for the creature wagon isnt strong, it just exists-
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Aubrey Mafia Scum
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#AubreyRambles #GameMechanicsTalk&Theory #it's1amIn post 615, doomfeathers wrote:
Huh. I have no idea what else to look for. Could you give me some idea?In post 595, Aubrey wrote:Let's get real. Day 1's are usually shit and town gets lynched. Mostly because people come at this game looking for some super logical explanation.
Do you seriously think this game isonlyabout black and white logical analysis and who can out argue who? This mentality is in part how I won my last game as scum. A majority of the town looked horrible, and basically lynched itself due to inactivity, and arguably due to believing the most logical answers provided sometimes. I was able to basically build myself one hella good piece of impenetrable armor, and secured a win in the end. Now it wasn't a stroll in the park by no means. Finale, i was PRAYINGGGG for Kop (a claimed power-role) to lynch Hawk over me (and he did). Afterwards, He wished he'd listened to his heart instead of his head. However up until finale, nobody suspected me really and I was logically sound. I think only 2 people suspected me, and one of them was dead by the time they really were doing so. Hawk was absolutely shocked I was scum, and Kop had no obvious choice to pick from in the finale.
Feel free to chime in here Hawk and Kop.
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Now don't get me wrong. Logical analysis and the ability to drive your point is key and important, but there is more to this game than just that. Often good scum will look like the most town read person logically, and all you're doing is missing a small detail/behavior that would point back to a scum mind set. Should you find that detail, then you have to figure out how to sway the town to go against that almost impenetrable armor or sword of logic. Sometimes there won't be a clear answer, and you just have to hope your suspicions led you to the correct conclusion. vise versa, sometimes the most logical answer is the absolute best answer. a game with some many possible variables is hard to approach in just one way. at some point you just have to figure out what you think makes someone scum or town.
One of the hardest things to understand is sometimes, if not usually, Town will appear logically a lot worse than scum will. Considering all the above and that nugget of info, you really gotta start thinking about things beyond just black and white logic. I hope that helps.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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this is the most important thing there is to learn about mafiaIn post 620, Aubrey wrote:One of the hardest things to understand is sometimes, if not usually, Town will appear logically a lot worse than scum will. Considering all the above and that nugget of info, you really gotta start thinking about things beyond just black and white logic. I hope that helps.
town is ALWAYS scummy-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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now getting on someones case for bad reasons isnt a bad thing if you know how to do it (i like to think i do)
you just have to make allowances for the fact that you will be SO WRONG more often than not, and get really good at reading peoples tone and actions when you put them through intensive interrogation so that you dont end up tunneling yourself into a corner
also, when to stop pushing is pretty important but i think its secondary to the rest-
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havingfitz Survivor
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As inferred earlier....I could get behind a Creature wagon. I suspect he and hapa independently of each other but the bussing theory isn't bad. I'm mostly on hapa as it looks to have better traction. If I had to choose I think hapa would be better to keep around as he would be more productive if town or more likely to give reason to suspect if scum.
Not interested in the Kop or KidAmn wagons.
A KidAmn vote somewhere would be nice.
More Moogin would be nice.Town 57w-66l :: Not Town 29w-16l:: TBD 2
V/LA on weekends (i.e. RL > mafia)
The shortest GTKAS thread ever!-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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why do you think that hapa is more likely to contribute or self-incriminate?
creature is amazing at scumhunting d2 onward as town -- id sheep town!Creature d2 unquestioningly in fact, and i just dont do that
so why do you think hapa is the better choice here?
i know why /i/ do and that is irrelevant, i want to know why you do
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