Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[doomfeathers]

You scumread Creature and you are scumreading hapa.

Your information must be pretty old. Cassielle hasn't been scumreading Creature for a while.

[Creature]

I'm feeling like scum with daytalk is pro-town.

[KidAmn]

Mod: a vote count would be nice pleasant thank you

Mostly because IIRC we don't have much time left?

[Aubrey]

I'm feeling like scum with daytalk is pro-town.

As in scum are likely to be acting in a fashion that we consider to be pro town vs. hanging back doing little?? or their day talk is screwing them over for the town's benefit? I don't get what you mean in this one liner.

[Creature]

If scum had daytalk, we could make some hypothesis.

[cassielle]

So cassielle:

Let me try to understand this:
You scumread Creature and you are scumreading hapa. A part of your case on Creature is based on him bussing hapa. How do you define this? I mean like what difference there is in this situation that this looks like him bussing instead of him being mafia trying to lynch a townie, or him being town thinking hapa is mafia? Another thing i am pretty puzzled with is that you are right now voting for KidAm partly because he is trying to ML a pro-town player. Just that this "pro-town" player you are talking about is one of your scumreads?

You can't have it both ways so how does any of this make any sense?

no

like everything youve said is wrong except me scumreading hapa
some of it was correct at some point but.... man, youve read precisely two posts ive made if you seriously believe this

pay attention to the game

[KidAmn]

Mod: a vote count would be nice please and thank you

Mostly because IIRC we don't have much time left?

So let's talk about how awful phone posting is

But for real, Rels' first post back from V/LA needs to be an actual case on me and ooo's lipservice to the Haha wagon while putting his vote anywhere but it as the day drags on is duly noted

[KidAmn]

Or yknow Rels could just get on a wagon that isn't led by flailing scum and pressure votes, w/e

[cassielle]

basically im scumreading the TL trio atm

feels too convenient, sure, but rels is softballing hapa and ooo's pushes are schizophrenic and, now, completely divorced from reality
idk, seems likely to be scum to me

be nice if the scum could obvscum for a post or two after this just to confirm

[havingfitz]

If scum had daytalk

, we could make some hypothesis.

Creature must be town cause he didn't know scum had daytalk. I mean...how could he aside from the fact it's been mentioned several times and....

Mafia has daytalk

/sarcasm

[Creature]

Thought Open Setups didn't have daytalk.

[cassielle]

learn something new everyday, huh?

[Kop]

I echo the thoughts of Cassielle regarding Rels.

It would be beneficial if we got a flip on either Hapa or rels, but I am feeling rels more than Hapa at the minute. His whole push on Hapa, and that question that I questioned and a few others he just wouldn't reveal what he intended, it just felt that he was setting Hapa up to suspect then back off when Hapa came into the game properly. I get a strong sense of feeling that it's either bussing, or classic distancing if one was to flip later in the game. It looks worse with Rels backing out of it, which also points to that if Hapa flips town, Rels gains town credit because he can actually safely say well I felt that he was town because of his responses and there isn't any backlash towards Rel because of it.

Just it doesn't feel right anymore, my slight town read that I got has gone.

With scum having day talk, it could have easily been orchestrated and co-ordinated without having to work hard at it, if Hapa flips scum, it would point me heavily towards Rel again.

Taking Rel out would answer a lot towards my thoughts towards Hapa, it could make me think twice in regards to him.

[Hawk]

Yeah I think if Hapa flips town Rels and OoO feel like good counter points. OoO has done a much less spectacular job outside of that first section of the game. Which with a little bit of coordination and some use of TL meta could all be contrived info. Of the three Hapa looked the worse but was also the one being setup if he flips town.

I don't like that OoO comes back with such a misrep on Cass feels like it's rather odd and kinda LAMIST. Then distraction wagon of Fitz who hasn't been corner for concern since much earlier in the day.

I'm okay with Hapa lynch today, if he flips scum I'm looking at Rels if he flips town look at OoO.

If we don't lynch Hapa, Rels is my backup because I think those two will yield the greatest information gain.

KidDamn looks like lynch bait by Rels Hapa wagon.

VOTE: Rels

Pedit: Kop echos sentiments here but I'm still concerned he's pushing Rels more than Hapa... but if that's the case I can easily see Kop Hapa if it's not Rels Hapa or something along those lines.

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

[Kop]

Yeah I think if Hapa flips town Rels and OoO feel like good counter points. OoO has done a much less spectacular job outside of that first section of the game. Which with a little bit of coordination and some use of TL meta could all be contrived info. Of the three Hapa looked the worse but was also the one being setup if he flips town.

I don't like that OoO comes back with such a misrep on Cass feels like it's rather odd and kinda LAMIST. Then distraction wagon of Fitz who hasn't been corner for concern since much earlier in the day.

I'm okay with Hapa lynch today, if he flips scum I'm looking at Rels if he flips town look at OoO.

If we don't lynch Hapa, Rels is my backup because I think those two will yield the greatest information gain.

KidDamn looks like lynch bait by Rels Hapa wagon.

VOTE: Rels

Pedit: Kop echos sentiments here but I'm still concerned he's pushing Rels more than Hapa... but if that's the case I can easily see Kop Hapa if it's not Rels Hapa or something along those lines.

Also Kops point that Rels could flip scum makes me feel much better about Kop since he doesn't need to push Rels here if he's scum with him and they could just force that Hapa lynch.

To be fair, I understand your point on Hapa. But I think we gain more information from the Rels lynch.

I think Doom could be the outsider in all of this, but I don't think he will be put forward as a candidate today.

[BlackVoid]

It's odd to me that nearly everyone who posted since my Hap case agreed but found reasons to vote elsewhere. There were so many people that looked town but Hap's reads were the least believable - his read on KidAmn and Fitz - and ultimately that's what I'm going with.

I do understand Kop's argument that Rels might have pressured a town-Hap and backed off for towncred which actually makes me feel better about Kop.

I'm going to re-ISO Rels when I get back this evening to see what I think. Not interested in lynching outoforder. That Fitz vote was weird but it does make sense with his previous suspicion and his posting before his V/LA was super town. Just want him to get back in the game and post thoughts.

[cassielle]

To be fair, I understand your point on Hapa. But I think we gain more information from the Rels lynch.

I think Doom could be the outsider in all of this, but I don't think he will be put forward as a candidate today.

^ kop is town
almost 100% now

yeah i can back a rels wagon here
VOTE: Rels

only concern: hapa lynch is easier to ensure we nail today. we get less info but we have an easier time actually sticking the lynch
im normally all about "stretch the time out", but this is REALLY close to deadline, and im concerned by possible stalling tactics

if rels wagon meets resistance we should powerlynch hapa so we dont end day on a no-lynch

stalling tactics to be aware of:
if players say they refuse to vote rels this dayphase, theyre stalling
if players say that someone outside of rels/hapa has a better chance of hitting scum, theyre stalling
if players push hapa while saying they scumread rels, theyre stalling
if players push rels but don't vote, theyre stalling

there are others but i dont know them off hand

[BlackVoid]

Rels could be scum but I have a hard time seeing a Hap-town, Rels-scum scenario. In that scenario, it's overwhelmingly likely that a town-Hap would have caught onto a scum-Rels especially when the latter was pushing him so hard and they know each other well. But Hap never suspects Rels and his top four suspects are KidAmn, Fitz, Kop, and Cass. I think Hap lynch gives us better odds at hitting scum.

[Creature]

Is Rels wagon a lynch wagon?

[cassielle]

i want a rels lynch yeah

ftr i think a hapa-town world is extremely unlikely as well, and theres no way that hapa/rels is TvT or TvS (could be SvT though, i agree)

what a rels flip tells us about is /other/ slots -- e.g. picks out scum no.3

rels lynch permits us to gamesolve. hapa lynch hits scum 100% of the time. so i prefer the rels lynch for now: we can afford a ML or two in the early game, and the faster we get gamesolve info the easier it is for town to win. hapa will not cease to be a good lynch d2

[KidAmn]

I've already stated my dislike for Rels and tbh Cass is the only thing driving this town at this point, but I'm still not crazy about us going from "Hapa is the lynch but let's look at other stuff first" to "Rels is the lynch and don't any of you dare stall"

That said I'm willing to bow to my strongest town read at this point for now and it's not a lynch I disagree with on its own merits so

Vote: Rels

[BlackVoid]

"Hap lynch hits scum 100% of the time" and you are voting Rels?

Lynching

any

scum gives information. I'm not going to lynch someone

less

likely to be scum because

if

they're scum it gives information. If Rels flips town, we've just wasted a mislynch. If Hap flips town, well according to you there's no possibility of that happening so I don't understand your reluctance to vote there at all. What stops us from lynching Rels later on if we think he's the most likely scum at that point?

[Creature]

Info lynches are overrated.

[BlackVoid]

I'm still not crazy about us going from "Hapa is the lynch but let's look at other stuff first" to "Rels is the lynch and don't any of you dare stall"

Don't give in to stuff if you don't even understand where Cass is coming from. I haven't ruled out a Cass/Hap scumteam yet.

[BlackVoid]

Cass has since the point of replacing in giving lip service to a Hap lynch while using any and every opportunity to lynch someone else. At first, it was Creature. Then it was KidAmn. Now it's Rels.