Open 316 - Hard Boiled (Day Two)
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Are you town andrew?
/confirm intent to bandwagon andrew
Why wait til the game starts?
VOTE: andrewspiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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No. I'm always town. Especially in any game someone asks me that question.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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My avatar will eat your avatar, beanie and all, if you don't keep quiet about it.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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I need one more confirmation before I can officially OMGUS littlegrey. Hurry up, guys.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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I think that should be dicussed at the end of D1, not at the beginning.
VOTE: andrew obvscum is soo soooooo obvious.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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My idea for claiming is this: basically just the Hider/HT/det-psych claiming and the hider/det-psych co-ordinating night actions. This narrows scum down to a pool of 9 players and also means PRs can avoid each other (with the exception of the vig-tracker). Lynch one. Hider hides behind another (who he/she announces before nightfall). det-psych and vig-tracker would check/kill whoever they want of the remaining. Scum will target the det-psych first prob, then assuming the hider dies we can go from there. Worst-case scenario is that we go into MyLo D2, but that's happened before and turned out well, so 'sall G. Best case scenario, PRs rock scum and we win, gg.
Scum really cannot counter-claim in this setup, so I don't think counter-claims will be an issue, but if they happen, it can be discussed if/when it happens.
Anyway, I figured I'd lay this idea out here as a basis for discussion, BUT I don't think it should actually happen until much later in the day.
Also a good discussion point is whether or not the vig-tracker should choose to be a vig or a tracker. I personally prefer vig. As long as the vig doesn't take out the det-psych N1 with the hider hiding behind her, I think it's a much better choice than tracker. Although it depends on the D1 lynch, really. If scum is lynched, Tracker might be a better option.
grey wrote:What's your reason to vote for Andrew both times?
Well I voted andrew in confirmation because he's scum, and I revoted him after confirmation because the mod is a meanie who didn't count the confirmation vote.
grey wrote:But Muffin would have read Jake's post acknowledging that the game hadn't started yet, and shouldn't have voted. That's why I'm thinking he could be scum.
Is there any basis for thinking I'm scum, here? Like games you've seen this happen, or any real reason it's more likely I'm scum than town because of this?spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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The tracker wouldn't be claiming D1, so this isn't an issue.
CCing hider tracker could be an issue. Solution: Hider-tracker claims first (no other claims). If there's a counter-claim, hider should not claim (only the real hider tracker will know who the hider hides behind).spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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swank wrote:I'm tempted to give up hopes of winning and follow through with your proposed experiment.
This line here is what I really don't like about swank's #48. Itsoundsto me like he thinks whatever plan Hoopla is going to propose will benefit scum in some way, but he's willing to blindly follow it for 'experimental' purposes.
swank wrote:In addition to his support of a risky plan, Muffin's interpretation would completely neutralize one of the town's better PRs. When I bring up counterclaim issues, his tone is pretty dismissive - I think it's a much bigger vulnerability the plan than he does.
Yes, it would neutralise one of town's PRs (in my plan, the det-psych), but here's the thing.Anysort of mass-claim is going to 'neutralise' at least one of the PRs. My plan protects what I consider to be the more useful PRs (vig-tracker, HT) in exchange for the sacrifice of the det-psych (baiting the N1 kill) and most probably the hider at some point.
You brought up the issue of counter-claims, but it's a non-issue, because the vig-tracker cannot be counter-claimed (he won't be claiming) and the HT issue I already proposed a solution. But here's the thing: even if the vig-tracker did claim and was counter-claimed D1, the real vig-tracker could choose to be a vig and vig the liar, and we'd have all our other PRs alive tomorrow. There is really no counter-claim issue here. So yes, I'm being dismissive.
grey wrote:If I told you that would defeat the purpose of me making a new one. Just to be fair, the only person here I've ever been in a game with was zMuffin, but that was a while ago.
Oh, I know who you are then. I think. If you like sitting in a chair and eating sweets.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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I disagree that the hider should flip coin to decide who he hides behind.
I think, if we go ahead with your plan, hider should announce who he hides behind before nightfall. Yes, there's a possibility he hides behind scum and scum kill either HT or det-psych, and we're down 2 PRs, but it also means we'd have confirmed scum going into tomorrow on top of D1 lynch + vig shot + 2 town PRs left with the vig still in hiding. And if the hider doesn't die, then we have a confirmed town + hider + 2 PRs still left + vig shot + d1 lynch.
Also, this circumvents the issue I had with your plan (that all 3 scum could hide in the possible-vig pool and aim the vig tonight) because we'd be building a pool of confirmed townies outside of the possible-vig pool.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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EBWOP: disagree that he should flip a coin to decide whether he hides*
I think he should always hide and announce it (just in case scum do kill the HT first).
Also the HT could technically be counter-claimed, so the hider should only claim after the HT claims and has no been CCed.
Order would be like: everyone claims det-psych or not-det-psych, once that is over, everyone claims HT or not-HT, once that's over Hider claims.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Hoopla wrote:To clarify, if the Hider announces a town target - then the scum just need to target that player to net a townie/hider double kill. We don't get any confirmed innocents from that situation, as the Hider's target doesn't live.
This would be optimal for town.
Hider/townie dying while the vig takes a shot, the det-psych gets a check and the HT is a confirmed townie alive D2? I'll take that.
Absolute worst case scenario, we'd be down to 8 people with 3 scum still alive, 2 confirmed townies, 1 vig who could claim D2, and we'd be in a really, really good position to win the game.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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I'm actually not following you here...
Just walk me through this, baby steps, and I'll explain why I'm not following this.
Say we lynch a VT today, for worst-case scenario purposes.
Hider announces he will hide behind a townie.
Scum kills that VT tonight.
Hider + VT die.
Vig kills a VT in another worst-case scenario.
Tomorrow we have:
3 scum
Confimed HT
Confirmed det-psych
2 VTs
1 vig.
I think this is a very good situation for town, especially if the det-psych gets a good result, but even if he doesn't there are 2 confirmed townies, 1 vig that has the option of claiming D2 (can't be CCed because it would be suicide for scum - we would choose not to lynch either of them and they'd take each other out at night), and very good leads based on D1 play.
And this is worst-case scenario, not including the possibility of lynching scum D1 or vigging scum N1.
I don't see why this is a bad thing.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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If your plan is just based on numbers, then the hider shouldn't hide at all.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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No, because if he hides behind scum and scum kill the HT, then we're down to 8 players tomorrow, and we're in a worse situation than if he announced who he is hiding behind.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Amrun wrote:True,n but I still don't think it's good to announce.
And if the scum kill the HT, then we get a spych/det result AND we know there's scum in that VT pool so we just kill it until it's dead.
Which is why I think if the Hider isn't going to announce it, he should just not hide altogether. Saves complications with losing 2 PRs N1, especially when a det-psych investigation isn't necessarily reliable.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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... No, it isn't.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Look, I'll just try to illustrate to you why it's a bad thing going on numbers alone.
If there's 1 scum member in the no-vig pool, say we mislynch 1 VT today, hider hides behind scum in the non-vig pool (without announcing it), scum kill HT and to make matters worse, vig killed a VT from the other pool. We're down to 8 players with 3 scum left alive, and if there's only 1 scum in the pool of non-viges, then lynching them 1 by 1 isn't going to work. 1 mislynch and the vig must vig correctly or it's game over, and even if the vig does vig correctly it's 3:2 lylo with 2 from the non-vig pool still alive.
I don't even really know if this makes sense the way I just described it because my posts start making less and less sense at 4am, but it's not a good thing.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Well, the utility would be lost if he hid behind scum without announcing it and scum kill the HT... Actually, I think if scum is lynched D1, this isn't a real problem. And thinking about it some more, I really should not be thinking about it at 4am.
But assuming the Hider chooses not to utilise his hide ability, we are still utilising the fact that both the hider and the HT are confirmed townies after their claims.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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The other reason I think hider should announce the hiding target is so that the det-psych can co-ordinate his investigation around the hider.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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@Hoopla,
One last thought. Your objection to the Hider claiming who he would hide behind is that scum would be able to take out the VT he hides behind and we'd have one less mislynch/misvig available, right? But if scum take out one of the potential mislynch/misvigs anyway, is this really a problem?spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Hoopla wrote:or if we're wrong four times in a row (D1/N1/D2/N2) before hitting scum.
This is the problem, and this is what I want to think carefully about. And we can't be wrong 4 timesbefore hitting scumbecause come D3, if no scum are dead, it's game over. And this is the same in both your scenario with 9 alive tomorrow and my scenario with possibly 8 alive tomorrow.
Hoopla wrote:The Hider taking a player with it at night is the additional kill messing up the cycle. We don't want that extra kill.
This I disagree with, because if scum are taking out one of the VTs, it means we don't actually need the additional kill in the cycle. I want to run through some scenarios and think about this before I say anything else.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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You're right that if we do hit scum in your scenario, we have a bit more leeway, but the chance of hitting scum by D3 in my scenario is also much higher. Which is why I want to think about it first.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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I don't think it's as simple as looking at odds and 'reads'. You're discounting how scum would interact based on knowing a mass claim is likely at this point, and knowing they may have to bus their scum buddies. An example of this is you; I assume if you're a VT, you'll be nominating yourself for the non-vig pool, right? But just because of play so far, you'll be much less likely to be lynched than other players. You can say, "well, you can lynch me if you want", but you know that sort of attitude makes it less likely you'll be lynched. Not to mention if you are scum, your buddies probably knew you'd be doing this, and any reads based on the game so far aren't really reliable.
I'm being really, really paranoid here, but this should explain why I'm not liking play based solely on odds.
To be honest, I'd much rather play the game as is and consider mass claiming again further down the line.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Hoopla wrote:we have to gamble on some players being town throughout the game
You call it gambling, I call it reading.
Your plan doesn't eliminate gambling in any way, though. There's still a gamble.
Hoopla wrote:If I'm scum, I wouldn't lock us into a suboptimal play.
You call it sub-optimal, but it really isn't. You're nullifying all the town PRs except for the vig (essentially they'd all just be confirmed townies) and pretty much ensuring you get to at least LyLo because you probably wouldn't be vigged or lynched over other candidates. You'd be removing most of the PR luck elements that could potentially destroy scum before D2.
I don't actually believe this is a scum-sided game when played straight. Although it really comes down to town PRs playing well, and in past hard-boiled games I've looked at, town have misplayed or scum has been a bit lucky (e.g. in one game, the last remaining scum took out the tracker on the night he tracked the last remaining scum).
All this said, I am a sucker and I do believe you're town, but I really don't like that you said that you must be town because you wouldn't suggest this if you were scum.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Actually, 3 and 6 is a good idea. A really good idea. Not because it hides the vig, but because it makes mafia's decision really, really hard. 1/3 chance of getting lynched if they nominate themselves, and 3/5 chance of getting vigged if none of them nominate themselves. could also get behind a hider using his ability in this scenario.
I didn't mind your hider idea, but we were talking about it from the perspective of numbers, and also there's a possibility that any two players the hider chooses could actually both be mafia (not an extremely likely possibility, but still a possibility none-the-less).spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Actually, I really need to think this through properly.
Hoopla, in a 4/5 split, why isn't it optimal for no scum to be in the no-vig pool and take a shot at the vig at night? You say that this is risky, but it really isn't, depending on what sort of reads they've got on the two remaining players in the possible-vig pool. Even if they do a 1/2 split, they could still take a shot at the vig if they have a read on him. Plus you say it's a gamble on scum's part, but if your plan is so advantageous for town, then obviously the correct choice for scum is to take this gamble and play for the win if they hit right (which could be very likely depending on how useful the det-psych, especially if the hider is choosing not to use his ability for fear of reducing numbers).
I think the hider hiding, and announcing his hide, is a really smart option. Even if it's something similar to what DF suggested. It distracts scum from vig-hunting. And if we're looking at distractions from vig-hunting, then the hider hiding behind a VT is a really good idea, because it at least means that if they do go vig-hunting, they risk the hider confirming someone as town (which would mean 4 conf. townies with 9 alive and probably a good lead on scum).
Just thinking out loud right now, but I want to look at all options before anything is set in stone.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Amrun wrote:Why would scum go all in the non-vig pool? That guarantees two scum deaths before D2.
No scum in the non-vig pool means at most 1 scum dead before D2... And possibly none...spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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The vig is supposed to be shooting from the possible-vig pool and we are supposed to be lynching from the non-vig pool, Amrun. The reason for this is so we avoid running the vig up to L-1 D1 (because he won't be in the non-vig pool).
So if all 3 scum go in the possible-vig pool, they have a 50/50 shot at taking out the vig N1, not even assuming they have some sort of PR read on him.
We lynch a VT from the non-vig pool D1 (because theyre all VTs) and vig still has a 25% chance of killing the VT in the possible-vig pool....spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Actually...
neil wrote:What's your take on how easy the vig could get lynched / pointed out if all the scum hide in the no-claim pool?
This isn't really a concern.
We should go ahead with this, with a 4/5 split. No more questions or hints for scum. And no more discussion about what would or wouldn't be optimal for scum.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Also, if we do go ahead with this, I have some things I will discuss after mass claims are over.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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nospiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Hold on.
Lots of stuff, I have briefly skimmed, but I'm considering Quilford's idea. It is a nice touch, and counter-claims still aren't an issue if we do this (if we have more than 3 people claiming PR, we can go through and deal with CCs). Plus it makes it harder for scum to decide on their NK.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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glowball, why do you keep insisting that you're on the same team as everyone else? It's really, really distracting and not at all a townie mindset.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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@Hoopla,
What Amrun said. Minus popcorn.
We deal with proper claims if, and only if, there are more than 3 people claiming PR. In this case, we do det-psych claim/s first, HT claims second and hider claims third, within the group of people claiming PRs.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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PS:
@Amrun,
lol. I reckon we could have won even if you vigged RC. I had a strong town read on don, and scott was confirmed town, and I think don was the same with me. Although it would have been a lot more difficult.
@glowball,
Yeah, but you've specifically called certain people town, and it's distracting. For example, you said that lynching you would be playing against someone's win-con, but unless you know they're not scum, or you're scum with them, that would be an inaccurate statement.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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@hoopla,
I don't think popcorn really matters for the PR-notPR claims, and lists will be subjective. I think it should just be a claim-in-your-next-post sort of thing with minimal discussion going on until the claims are over.
Although there a few things I want to go over before it happens, so I'd rather delay this for a day or two. Also gives a chance for people to refine it or offer suggestions in the mean time; I mean, Quilford's idea only just came, and it's a good one. I'd rather eliminate scum's chances as much as possible before we go ahead with this.
@glowball,
How does "grasping at straws" make sense? Why do you think I'm grasping at straws? I haven't actually said anything about you, I've just asked you to stop doing it because it's distracting if you're actually town and it's marring my read. Go ahead and keep doing it if you're scum, though. I really don't mind if that's the case.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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nospiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Just 'coz.
Mostly too scummy to be scum. I don't see scum trying that hard to derail this claim plan; much more likely scum is in the people agreeing with everything without questioning anything. There's probably also scum hiding in the 'helpful' players, and you are the first that comes to mind in that regard. But I'm not scum hunting like I should be due to the circumstances in this game, and the only real reads I have right now are gut reads with little or no substance to back it up.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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I asked her why she was doing it and I asked her to stop doing it if she's town.
Do you think there's something wrong with that?spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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@Amrun,
Yes... Because I am coaching her. She should stop doing it if she's town.
@neil,
Yeah, which is why I didn't want to go ahead with this until later in the day, but apparently people want to get this over and done with now. So I don't really mind, as long as there's at least day or two before it happens so I can make sure I'm not missing anything. I still have some things that I will discuss only after the mass-claim is over, and people will probably not like it at all.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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It's not that scum has an idea of how to beat it. It's that scum has no choice but to agree with it and hope they look town enough to avoid being lynched/NKed while trying to find whatever loopholes they can in the plan.
Which is why I don't want to go ahead with it so quickly, until all aspects have been evaluated to screw scum over as much as possible, and it's why I think scum is in the people blindly agreeing with everything, and maybe one of them is in the people being really 'helpful'.
PS: Oh, neil... You're scum again, aren't you? That sucks. Was hoping for a town game with you.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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btw, that is the longest episode of anime ever, jakesh. Or you got a bottle of water that's like 100 litres or something. Either way, it's probably not a good thing.
And I forgot to claim. Shrek. But I think the mod gave me a bad fakeclaim here because Shrek isn't a disney movie afaik.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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So, just summarising the plan so far:
1) Everyone claims "PR" or "not PR". Det-psych, HT and hider are the ones that should be claiming "PR" and vig/VTs should be claiming "not PR". Scum can do whatever they want here. If we get more than 3 "PR" claims, we go through and do individual claims.
2) We do a 3/6 split for not-vig/possible-vig pools. 3 people volunteer themselves as "not vig" and they are the lynch candidates for today.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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I want to see Amrun in the lynch pool.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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It's not a slip out of context either. It's not a slip altogether. It's a fairly self-explanatory sentence fragment.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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That, and andrew is scum.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Hey, Oversoul.
Save me some time, and tell me what your actual read is. I can't be bothered sifting through that to find out.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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please, please, please let amrun be in the lynch poolspiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Need a more replacement, so we can get a jakesh replacement. A side note though, he flaked in another of my games (was lynched just recently for reasons unrelated to his flaking, and flipped VT). So it's not like a scum-lurking tactic. Not to say he isn't scum, but that his inactivity isn't a tell of any sort.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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andrew wrote:muffin explain 399 please
errrr... I think it's pretty self-explanatory. I want Amrun to be in the lynch pool.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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swank wrote:Why do you want Amrun in the lynch pool, though?
I'll give you three guesses.
And one hint: if you guess that I want to lynch Amrun, you'd be right.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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prod dodging because I'm cool.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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It saddens me that people are just ignoring me when I'm going out of my way to look scummy. Nobody thinks I'm worth voting?
Even a simple sympathy vote will brighten my day.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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So, er, why are we waiting on pacman? Does he need to do something or can I claim vig now?spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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prspiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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Oh, there are glaringly obvious holes in the original plan, that have been slightly accounted for with innovations from a few players.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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It's pretty obvious glowball is the last pr, but whatever.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 20915
- Joined: March 10, 2011
I thought you wanted to claim last because you were claiming a PR. Just seems strange otherwise. Meh, guess I was wrong.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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- Posts: 20915
- Joined: March 10, 2011
er, there's still one PR in the two people who haven't claimed yet, glowball.
prod-dodging again coz i'm coolspiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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- Joined: March 10, 2011
Force-replace littlegrey and prod swank or somethingspiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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- Joined: March 10, 2011
I will replace into both their slots if it makes it easier for you.spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh spiffeh-
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zMuffinMan Survivor
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- Posts: 20915
- Joined: March 10, 2011